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Subaru Head Gasket Problems Explained.

Subaru 2.5l Phase Two Head Gasket


Some answers to the Subaru head gasket problem.

At our Subaru shop we see a fair amount of Subaru’s with failed head gaskets. There are two separate groups or years of production that the failures fall into. The following information is aimed at educating our customers about the problems, what to look for, tips on how to avoid future problems, and what to if your Subaru has developed problems with the head gaskets.

The first group is the 1st generation 2.5l engine found predominantly in the 1996 to 1999 Outback, Legacy G.T., Forrester (up to mid-year 1998) and Subaru Impreza R.S. This group usually, will develop an internal head gasket leak ultimately resulting with an overheating engine.

Shop 6 Star Head Gaskets from AWD Today >>

Early signs of head gasket failure in the 1st generation Subaru 2.5l engine will include an oily residue found in the coolant overflow bottle also possible is an exhaust, fuel or sulfur smell in the coolant overflow bottle. From there what typically happens next is intermittent higher than normal coolant temperature gauge readings, followed with intermittent overheating especially during a long freeway trip or a drive up the mountain passes.

The second group is the 2nd generation Subaru 2.2l and 2.5l engines found in the Forrester from mid-year 1998, Impreza from mid-year 1998, the Outback and Legacy from 2000.The early symptoms that occur in the 2nd generation engines is usually an external oil leak at both head gaskets and an external coolant leak at the left side head gasket, we have seen coolant leaks at the right side head gasket as well but at a much lower failure rate than the left side. We have seen some of the same intermittent overheating symptoms, but the bulk of the issues seem to be external leaks.

Early detection of failing head gaskets is the key to keeping the repair costs down.

Typically speaking when the problem is diagnosed and repaired at the earliest signs of failure the potential for additional damage can be held to a minimum.

The problems are fairly well known, and the internet is a great tool for information. Unfortunately, a lot of automotive professionals do not truly understand the potential causes of the failure. If the problem isn’t properly understood, then some of the advice as to how to avoid the potential failure or reasons as to why this happened may be incomplete. This is where All Wheel Drive Auto can serve you better.

The good news!

We have yet to see a repaired and properly maintained vehicle have the same problem twice. And we feel that when the repair is done completely, it is a bump on the road to 300,000 miles.

Here is some of the technical information related to the gaskets used.

In 1996 on the 2.5l engine Subaru used a composite type head gasket similar in construction to the head gaskets found in the Subaru Legacy & Impreza 2.2l engine. Starting in 1997 and used through 1999 Subaru began to use a multi-layer steel shim head gasket with a graphite type outer film. And this is where the problem has started.

What we typically see with these gaskets is that the film between the combustion chamber and the cooling jacket or passageway is compromised allowing coolant into the combustion chamber and exhaust pressure and temperature into the cooling system. Subaru has come up with an updated head gasket design that seems to be holding up well.

In mid-year 1998 Subaru redesigned the 2.2l and 2.5l, most of the changes were in the cylinder heads and camshaft configurations. This design has had mostly problems with external head gasket leaks. Both oil and coolant

Tips on how to avoid or decrease the chance of failure are as follows.

1. Change the engine oil on a regular basis. As part of the normal combustion process not all of the fuel that enters the combustion chamber (this is where the compressed air fuel mixture is met with spark from the spark plug causing an explosion and creating power) is burnt, unfortunately we don’t drive vehicles that achieve 100% combustion. The unburnt fuel is scraped past the rings into the crankcase where it is mixed with the engine oil. The longer the oil is in the engine the more diluted the oil becomes with fuel. Fuel is a solvent that can eat away at seals and gaskets.

What is supposed to happen is that as the engine oil gets up to temperature the fuel will evaporate through the crankcase ventilation system into the intake manifold where it will mix with the air coming into the combustion chamber and be burnt there. But in areas such as the Puget Sound we do a lot of idling in traffic, and short trips where the oil never gets the chance to get up to the temperature needed to achieve the designed process. This is where understanding the difference between normal and severe use is crucial in car maintenance.  Maintain your car based on how you use it, Consumer reports and JD Powers, put out ownership cost studies and as a result car manufactures don’t want their car to seem like it costs more to own than the next one, think of the maintenance outline as the minimum amount of maintenance you should do.

2. Don’t let your Subaru’s battery become a hazardous waste area. We see a lot of Subaru’s come into the shop with “chia pets of corrosion” on the top of the battery. To the point where the battery is no longer visible from the top and the cable set has been damaged. Batteries typically go three to five years before they will really start to vent out a significant amount of acid. Under normal circumstances the battery is used to start the vehicle and to power accessories when the engine is not running. Any time the battery is used it loses some of its charge.

Most Subaru owners drive their vehicles with all of the accessories on. Sometimes at idle the alternator can’t keep up with the entire electrical load put on it and some power is drained from the battery. The process of the battery being discharged and charged is ultimately what causes the acid to vent out of the battery. How does a battery effect head gaskets you ask? Without getting to far into the scientific end of it, the battery is located very close to the radiator.  The electrical system in the car is grounded to the engine block on the left side of the engine, as the ground circuit resistance increases (from corroded battery cables), the voltage found in the cooling system will also increase, this is what causes electrolysis.   Coolant can become very corrosive as a result.  This is nothing new to cars, but it has gone overlooked by today’s era technicians, I know that checking voltage in the cooling system is nothing that is typically done at the dealer level during a service, nor do most independent shops perform this either.  There is a good chance that most don’t even know how to check for it.

A voltage drop test at the battery cable can reveal if the resistance level is high in the battery cable, if the resistance is high you are asking for trouble, again this is nothing new but often never checked by most shops just like most drivers do not check their oil or tire pressure every week.   Corrosion travels up the battery cable from the terminals and attacks the copper battery cable.

A battery that is covered in battery acid and corrosion will add to the level of corrosion in the cooling system, by increasing the resistance in the vehicle ground circuit which can lead to higher levels of electrolysis. This corrosion can eat away at metal gaskets, seals and metal that it comes in contact with. On a 2nd generation 2.2 and 2.5l it is almost always the left side head gasket that leaks coolant externally and it is also the cylinder head gasket that is the closest to the battery. Odd, no? A properly serviced and healthy battery will decrease the possibility of the battery adding to the corrosion level of the cooling system.

As the battery vents out acid and the cooling fans come on some of the vented acid can make its way into the coolant overflow bottle, not a lot in most cases but how much is too much?  The overflow bottle catches coolant from the cooling system as heat and pressure cause expansion of the coolant from the radiator into the overflow bottle as the engine cools the coolant is then pulled back into the cooling system form the “expansion tank” or “overflow bottle”.  In some cases you can look at the inside of the hood of your Subaru and see white acid all over the hood liner, if that is your car you are pulling  a tiny amount of acid into the overflow bottle past the tube and from there into the radiator, remember as the engine cools, coolant is pulled back into the radiator via the vacuum that is created as pressure decreases, so there is a small vacuum pulling at particles surrounding the coolant overflow bottle.

The health of the electrical system is a contributing factor.  We know that corrosive coolant is part of the problem, we know that electrolysis is a result of increased voltage levels in the cooling system as a result of poor grounding, we know that a poor ground can be caused by resistance in the primary electrical circuit.  We know the coolant is the same in the entire engine, and the gaskets the same left to right the only difference is the fact that the ground is at the left side of the engine and that if there is voltage present  in the cooling system it will always travel the shortest path to ground and the ground is on the same side of the engine as the gasket that always fails the most via external coolant leaks.

I don’t suggest that this is the primary factor, but one of many and the single easiest to prevent in most all cases.

Here are some examples of what not to ever let happen.

Battery Acid At Work

Battery Acid On The Hood Liner of a Subaru

Battery acid all over the hood liner part II

Battery acid at work

3. Change your Subaru’s coolant on a regular basis. This is one of the most important things you can do to your Subaru. As discussed previously corrosive coolant can deteriorate seals and gaskets over time. The use of the proper anti-freeze is recommended by Subaru as well as is a coolant additive on vehicles with the 2nd generation engines for a period of time.

4. Know what is being used in your Subaru. Not all auto parts, services and repairs are created equal. For example, using non O.E. (original equipment) type spark plugs can create hotter or cooler combustion temperatures. The combustion temperature has a lot to do with the amount of cylinder head, and gasket expansion. Generic coolant will save you about $5.00 over O.E. coolant but is it worth it in the long run?

5. This is a biggie, and the most overlooked. If you have a new car warranty or an aftermarket warranty policy that is about to expire, have the vehicle inspected by someone who specializes in Subaru’s like All Wheel Drive Auto. The dealer is not going to call you and schedule in your Subaru for an inspection prior to the warranty expiring.

This is where All Wheel Drive Auto can truly serve your interest’s well.

Calling the dealer empowered with information and documentation about leaks is much better than hoping you won’t have any problems.

Subaru utilizes the horizontal engine design and is one of the reasons that the all-wheel drive system found in the Subaru is superior to the other makes and models out there. The horizontal engine platform is also a large part of what makes a Subaru a great safe vehicle and the all-wheel drive and safety of a Subaru is usually what influences the decision to own one.

On an in-line engine or v engine design, when the vehicle is turned off the fluids such as coolant and oil will drain down to below the head gasket line. On a Subaru with a horizontally opposed engine when you turn the vehicle off the fluids such as the oil and coolant will remain in contact with the head gaskets. If the fluids are not in very good condition, such as outlined above, they will eat away at the head gaskets.

A Subaru can give its owner many years of trouble-free life. That added with the knowledge that it will get you to where you need to go regardless of road conditions. As such we feel that the repair done correctly, and a good maintenance schedule following will yield years of trouble-free driving.

Subaru head gasket

This is a failed 1st generation head gasket found in the Subaru 2.5l starting in 1997.

Notice the silver area where the black film has washed away allowing coolant and cylinder pressure to exchange.

Failed Subaru Haed gasket

Failed DOHC 2.5l Subaru Head Gasket

In the above picture you can see that the upper portion of the gasket is fine.   This is an example of how gravity is part of the problem, when combined with the solvent that is fuel and potentially corrosive coolant.

Updated Subaru 1st generation 2.5l Head Gasket

Here we see the updated  Subaru 2.5l gasket.

1st Generation 2.5l updated head gasket vs the original design

The Subaru Updated 2nd Generation Head Gasket

This is the updated gasket photo from Subaru for the 2nd generation 2.5l

A Failed 2.5l Head Gasket Next To A New One

This is an eaten away gasket vs the updated one installed at the Subaru Dealership service department

A Failed 2nd Gen. Subaru 2.5l Head Gasket

You can see how the gasket material has been eaten away, anywhere you see sliver is not good.

Failed left Side Subaru Head Gasket

Another picture of the same issue, an eaten away gasket.

A Failed 2nd Gen. Subaru 2.5l Head Gasket

 

Subaru Updated vs The Failed Gasket

Updated vs failed gasket.

 

Subaru Replacement VS The old one coming out

Updated vs failed gasket.

MLS Gasket we use

The Old vs New.  You can see the significant changes that were made in the design in the first-generation gasket but not so much in the 2nd Gen in regard to the gaskets offered by Subaru.  You can also see the significant difference in the gaskets we use here.

Thanks for reading.

Justin Stobb

All Wheel Drive Auto

Seattle Area Independent Subaru Expert Mechanic

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2,641 Responses

  1. We had a pretty clear head gasket problem in 2002 base outback wagon (145000 miles), and had the gasket replaced along with a host of other things (spark plugs, new radiator, etc.). Now 15 mos. later and we have an oil leak again and they are telling it is from the head gasket. Of course the warrantee was 12mos/12000 miles. But I am frustrated – shouldn’t a replaced head gasket last longer than 15 mos? We’ve only driven about 6000 miles (this is not our primary car anymore, but we do value it as our “second” car). Is this bad workmanship? Is this just the way it is? Is there some way we can repair it to get another 50K miles out of it?

    1. Hello Tamara,

      Yes a repair should last longer than 15 months. I do not know why yours did not it could have been a number of factors.

      Who did the repair?
      What parts were used?
      Were the heads machines flat and to a proper RA?
      Was the block checked for flat?
      Was the repair done in car or did they take the engine out to make the repairs?

      If the answer to the first question is the Dealer or a general repair shop that’s a problem
      If the answer to the second question is anything other than the Six star head gaskets that’s a problem
      If the answer to the 3rd question is anything other than yes that’s a problem
      If the Answer to the 4th question is anything other than yes that’s a problem
      If the answer to the 5th question is yes they were done in the car vs taking the engine out that’s a huge problem

      Yes the repair can be done in a way to last 100k plus, but in the same way one painter can do a good long lasting job of painting your house because they are a pro that does all the small detail work but yet another painter (for even the same or more money) may do a quick or rushed job, skipping all of the detail work that makes it last yields poor results and its not known for a amount of time before its apparent they didn’t do a great job, this is exactly what happens in Auto repair.
      Typically a good Independent Subaru will provide a great long lasting repair, the Subaru Dealer or a general repair shop, not so much.

      Hope it all works out

      -Justin

    1. Nothing like the EJ. Mostly cam case and cover leaks, sometimes we advise to go further as PM. Lots with over 200k with no issues, but I also wont say never.

      -Justin

  2. I haven’t read everyone’s posts, but I’ll work on that tonight.

    In the meantime:

    2002 Legacy L 2.5
    Head gaskets leaking signifcantly.
    Do you know of an engine without the HG problem that would fit the car (transmission, etc.)? Or a way to look this up?

    Thanks!

  3. Hi Justin,

    I have been driving my 2006 SUBARU LEGACY OUTBACK LL BEAN 3.0 L 6 cyl engine for 5 years. It’s got ~155,000 miles. The head gaskets are leaking and my local shop won’t do the repair because of the difficulty in accessing the head gaskets. There has been a slow leak for a couple of years, but now there is coolant mixing with oil.

    Since I won’t know the full extent of the damage/issue until they actually get in there – whether it be the gaskets or the heads or the engine – what would be your recommendation for me?

    I was quoted up to $10k for worst case scenario. Car shopping is overwhelming and expensive, and honestly paying $10k to fix the car I love may be the route I end up taking. What would you do?

    Thank you so much for any insights.
    -Hallie

    1. Hey Hallie,

      Very common situation we see and your right shopping fora car right now is pretty awful. If you like the Car id really suggest keeping it and putting the money into it. Its a pretty overall solid platform. If it ends up needing a lot a low mileage Exchange engine out of Japan is a pretty decent option to go with for that era 3.0l. I would still take it apart and reseal it completely but a good back up option f yours ends up needing hard parts.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

      1. I really don’t understand how so many shops can not want to work on a subaru engine. they are the simplest most straightforward engines I’ve ever worked on, where the designers and engineers actually thought about the people working on it. You can have the engine out in an hour without a lift, It’s literally an afternoon job anyone could do with their buddies as long as you didn’t overheat it. There are TWO bolts that are kind of a pain to get to on the valve covers if you do it in the car. Everything else is right in your face and either 10, 12, or 14mm, and if you do the little bit of extra work to pull the motor you can just zip them all off with an impact lickity split. Any mechanic who refuses subaru work is a scared and stubborn fool. With all the resources of a shop it shouldn’t take more than a half day as long as it doesn’t need machining. “difficulty in accessing the head gaskets” my ass, any transverse mounted engine is a thousand times worse than a boxer with the timing system right up against the frame and the rear head up against the firewall on v engines. Shops should be jumping for joy when they get a subaru to work on and they don’t have to spend countless extra hours removing dozens of unrelated parts to get access to the bolt they need like with every other manufacturer.

        1. Hey Austin,

          Thanks for the reply.

          Subaru Head gaskets should never be done in the car however, it may seem like its okay to do so but the repair will never last and it’s all but impossible to check the block for warp.

          -Justin

  4. Hi Justin,

    Your explanations make sense of everything I’ve heard from quality technicians and more. The photos are invaluable. Thank you for taking the time to help so many folks understand this widespread issue from Subaru.

    If your able to answer I have a situation I’d like your insight about. I came across this thread as my wife’s ‘07 Forester X is at the dealership for a coolant leak at the drivers side head. I noticed the leak because I expected it would eventually happen. I would occasionally check the heads for leakage.
    I had it towed to the dealership to avoid driving it 1 hour away because no reputable independent local/nearby mechanic works on head gaskets anymore. I live on the Big Island of Hawaii. The dealership is saying that the block and heads are warped and I need a new engine to the tune of $7K. There is no real way for me to verify as the dealership is an hour away and only open while I am at work. I have asked for pictures but have not yet received them. The last mechanic that addressed the leak (about 5 months ago) was a local guy we take our cars to when I can’t do the repair. He has been good so far but he doesn’t do head gaskets either. He used Blue Devil head gasket sealer. I had never heard of it but he said it works well. Fast forward to today and the tech at the dealership is stating it has “obvious signs of overheating” and “signs of tap water being used as there were major mineral deposits clogging the thermostat”. I told him that could probably be the Blue Devil stuff. My main questions, if you’re willing to answer, are …What methods does a tech use to diagnose a warped head/block? Is there a way to clean out the blue devil residue from the cooling system after being added?

    To make things more complicated, in a conversation with the service coordinator/person who schedules, it was mentioned that one of the technicians might be interested in buying the car (prior to us having it torn down to diagnose). This comment made me feel wary to the motive of the dealership. We approved the tear down because no other place is willing to work on it. We were referred to the dealership service dept by a reputable Independent mechanic that said if they took the repair they would just put a rebuilt engine as they come with warranty and the cost is marginal considering the benefits but those engines are not in stock from their normal supplier. I am concerned about their diagnosis as we believe the engine never overheated. My wife only drives that car to work and back (6 miles round trip). If we take a trip to another town we use my Honda.

    Thanks for considering my situation!

    1. Aloha Ethan!

      I was on the Big island for the first time last November for one of my Managers and friends wedding in Kona and we loved it.

      On to the car, so I am going to start with telling you stop leak is a huge mistake and I really hate reading when shops suggest it. This is a chemical from a bygone era really meant to help you limp the car somewhere for repairs. Prior to the modern communication era we find ourselves in know with cell phones as a tow is a mere phone call away. Stop leak is not meant to fix anything and can really complicate repairs later as you may end up with both a clogged radiator and heater core. Now that I have said that piece lets talk about the situation you find yourself in.

      I will tell you from experience that Auto service in Hawaii is very problematic at best. The block and heads can only be checked for warp with a straight edge & feeler gauge after the heads are removed and the surfaces are cleaned. There is no way to know of warp prior to teardown so I cant understand why the Subaru Dealer would even bring that up unless it really is showing signs of serious overheating.

      As far as overheating if the vehicle had an air pocket in the cooling system as a result of the low coolant level due to the leak the gauge may not indicate overheating as the sensor used for both the ECM and the gauge in the dash require liquid coolant to surround it in order to create a voltage reading to the proper input of the ECM and a resistance reading to the analog gauge. I dont know if thats what happened to you I just want to bring up it can happen and we get cars in all the time that have overheated and the driver was unaware.

      How would I advise a local customer to me? The 2007 Forester is a really great car outside of the head gasket thing. I would find someone who can make the repairs even if the block is warped Subaru offers a reman shortblock with a 3/36 warranty. the heads would need to be refurbished or surfaced at a minimum but once repaired should go 300k as long as you take care of it. I would also suggest the Six Star HG, but the Dealer most likely will not install those if that’s where its repaired. So get it torn down and be prepared for the worst while you hope for the best.

      Your not going to find a car on any of the islands for what it will cost to fix the Forester you already have.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  5. Hi, I was thinking about purchasing a 2001 Legacy B4 RSK. It has 153,XXX km, my biggest concern is possible head gasket failure. Did the turbo charged 2.0L EJ20 have head gasket issues? I know the NA’s for then had almost inevitable head gasket failure, but did the turbo charged have this issue too as I’ve heard that they might use a different gasket for them?

    1. Hey Ryan,

      Your asking about an engine configuration I just don’t know as much about as that version was never offered in the US. The EJ 2.0l that was offered in the US in the WRX did not suffer from external HG leaks but at around 150k could develop internal failures really depending on how it was taken care of.

      Hope that helps
      -Justin

  6. I really appreciate your clear and concise explanations!! Thanks so much for all your work helping us lay folk understand our vehicles. I’m really happy with my 09 forester. I have one with 135k miles on it and have been told at dealership that gaskets starting to leak. I love my car otherwise and all maintenance done as per schedule. The fix is pricey just wondering ur opinion on fixing or replacing at this age

    1. Hello Diana,

      At 135k your 2009 Forester is still just getting started in life, its going to go to 300k and beyond (barring an accident) whether you want to take it there or not. So if you like the car, and can see yourself it for another 5-20 years I would suggest repairing it.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  7. So I have similar symptoms that suggest a head gasket fault with overheating engine, but I own 2016 model Impreza with a 2.0l engine and am wondering if these engines are also at high risk of head gasket problems…? I also have done work on vehicle and can’t really say for sure if it has been due to mechanics error.

    1. Hey Jonathan,

      I cant tell you from here if your car is going to need a HG, the 2016 are not prone to the same type of HG issues earlier models were.

      “I also have done work on vehicle and can’t really say for sure if it has been due to mechanics error.” I am not sure what this means?

      -Justin

  8. Hey Justin,
    I’m digging your site here so much, reading it all, and planning to move down from BC Canada to Washington this year. Hoping you’re still around for any work my Subaru Outback 2012 might require. Already you’ve got me convinced to change my coolant ASAP. Reading all of your explanations inspires me that we should be teaching kids from grade 7 on about how cars actually work, not wait till a a chosen few have this opportunity in grade 10. Thanks for sharing your expertise; you are helping me value my Subaru more.

  9. Hi Justin,
    I’m looking at buying a 2021 Subaru 2.5i-S Forester AWD. Will I be having the same problem with the HG or have they fixed the problem.
    Thanks
    Vicki

    1. Hi Vicki,

      The Modern Era Subaru doesn’t have the same type of HG issues that we are discussing in this thread.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  10. Wow I literally washed the night away reading all this great info on Subarus. So, Justin, I have two questions for you. First, I must say we all get pissed off at any car that causes any inconvenience for us and more so when it hits our pocket, but after owning two outbacks one a 2002 and the other a 2005 ll bean 3.0 r I have run into a sticky situation the 2005 has the intermittent bubbling in overflow and I have noticed there seems to be some occasional small strange debris in it is this a HG failing as I do know a good deal about working on these just not about the diagnosing parts I am quite sure its not the heater core nor a bad water pump as i get tons of hot air when i need it except of course if it is bubbling and I can see in the radiator that there is good flow now I have pressure tested it even done a few block tests on it and zilch no drop in pressure and no coolant drips other than the under hood steam spray pattern on the overflow side. I am guessing as the pressure test having been only able to do it when system has cooled that the gasket is sealing it temporarily which would hide the lose of pressure when testing it? If it is a HG would it be wiser to get a JDM replacement engine and go through all the seals etc and replace them and maybe do a head gasket replacement as well since the engines out of car meaning the new JDM one not current one with issues or to repair the one with the issues as the car has roughly 164000 miles on it and I love this thing lol coming from a 2002 honda civic that blew 2 headgaskets back to back because of a clogged pcv valve and the fact that the piston rings kept getting siezed in their groves causing massive blow-by. And wow to be able to do 7 second 0-60 in a car this heavy and feels amazing in cornering too! I guess I am asking if the JDM motor is a good option but being it sat for a while i am assuming even with super low mileage the fact that the engine hasn’t had oil circulating and keeping the seal moistened that those all need to be replaced as well. If it was yours what would you do and is there a specific JDM H6 that is a direct replacement considering I know not all had the variable valve timing on both exhaust and intake? Thanks again for keeping it real oh and one last thing the 2002 seems to be having a hard time clearing monitors for the emissions is there a specific drive cycle for them? Thanks and hope you have a wonderful Christmas.

    1. Hey Rob,

      I took some time over the holidays to be with family, but anyways. I dont hate the JDM Route for the 3.0l, but I would still do a HG out reseal like you have mentioned and at the same time replace at least the timing chain guides. If the power steering suction hose has not been done add that to the list as well as all cooling system hoses and you should be good to go for quite a while. For the 2002 yes there is a drive cycle, we do it with a Subaru Select monitor connected, best thing I can suggest is find a day when ambient and engine temp can start out pretty close to the same, and get it up to temp with some spirited type highway driving for about 30-45 minutes. The last monitors to reset is typically the Evap emissions and Catalyst. this can be tricky in the winter.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  11. Hi I’m looking at a manual 2008 Outback XT it has 187,000km (116K miles) for $9,000 ($7000 USD). From your previous comments it sounded like the XT models didn’t have the HG issues but I have no experience with Turbos and how they may otherwise effect longevity or maintenance.
    In addition I was curious about the newer 2010-2012 automatics, I have seen extremely polarized reviews of the CVTs from either being a rarity or a common case problem.
    Hope you can help!

    1. Hey Tom,

      I can only give you advice based on the idea of a 2008 Outback XT and not about the one you are looking at, that would require a pre purchase inspection which I urge you not to skip. On to the 2008 Outback XT, they use a MLS Head gasket and due to that and the lower compression they do not have external Head gasket leaks, they can and will fail however if they are not maintained and especial if they overheat. They are good cars, we have owned a few through the years. Turbo vehicles do require more maintenance than their naturally asperated counterparts, more oil changes, hoses become brittle earlier due to more engine compartment heat from the Turbocharger, the radiator will not last as long, if you but it and it has not been done, I would replace the Radiator right away, as well as making sure the timing belt has been done.

      Okay on to the 2010-2012 Outback’s with the CVT, yes this era of CVT Equipped Subaru’s can have issues, mostly with Torque converters and valve bodies, moist you are looking at by now should have had one or both of these items done and Subaru did stretch the warranty out.

      Based on the two vehicles you have mentioned I think you should really be looking for a 2010-2014 Subaru Outback with the 3.6L and E5At Automatic Transmission, really hard to go wrong with that platform.

      Hope that helps, and what ever you do have a pre purchase inspection done by someone who knows Subaru and is not the Stealer.

      -Justin

  12. I am looking for a recommendation on what to buy for my next and last Subaru. I have had several and currently have a 2002 outback 2.5. I have researched and am looking longingly at the 2009 outback XT. I live in Texas but in the hilly part and expect to travel all over the US.
    I like the Turbo and adjustable suspension and size. Reviews look good. The only substitute is the 2020 outback. Not sure I want to put that much money into it.

    I am also looking at maybe adding a few aftermarket parts. I enjoy working on what I own. The website listed is my main effort now.
    I appreciate any suggestions.
    Ed Valentine

    1. Hello Ed,

      In my opinion a 2013-2014 Outback with the 3.6l and 5 speed Auto is one of the best ways to go for how you described you are going to use it. Great power, Pre CVT, runs on regular unleaded, has a temp guage, good aftermarket support for things like lights, suspension floor mats etc.

      One of my all time favorite cars has ben our 2012 Outback with the 3.6L H6

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  13. Just got a 2007 Forester X from my father-in-law with 70k miles – always dealer serviced with no known issues. I would like to drive it for at least another 70K. So to prevent premature head gasket leaks, change oil and anti-freeze regularly and keep battery terminals connections spotless. I do all my own repairs, even major ones – so any suggestions on what else needs to be done to get maximum life without major repair work would be appreciated. I am giving away my 2009 Honda Civic with 90k trouble free miles, so hopefully I will not regret it.

  14. Hi Justin,

    Thank you for sharing your insightful expertise on your blog.

    My daughter, who has absolutely no prior experience or knowledge in car ownership, is considering buying a new 2020 Crosstrek. The car salesman told us that Subaru made modifications to the Boxer motor in 2018, and starting from 2019 model year the engines do not have the HG problem. Have you heard anything to that effect? Is that a correct statement or just a sales pitch? If true, what did Subaru change?

    Also, we learned that there will be a larger 2.5L engine for the 2021 Crosstrek. Is that motor currently used in another model? If so, is it a reliable engine? Does it also have the HG problem?

    Appreciate any help you give. Thanks.

    1. Hello Frank,

      The Crosstrek came out in 2013 with the FB 2.0 Engine, which never had a HG issue, some can leak oil in other places over time and some early ones had some oil consumption problems resulting Subaru extending the powertrain warranty out to 100k. There have been numerous revisions mostly to the piston ring coatings since 2013.

      The 2.5l coming in the 2015 is the FB 2.5l thats used in the Forester and Outback, same story as above.

      Current era Subaru engines just don’t have the HG issues the EJ 2.5l had

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  15. Thanks for a very informative and helpful article! I never knew how important new coolant was or how the battery interacts with the engine coolant.

    I’m looking for a used car, 5 speed manual tranny, with rock solid reliability for less than $5,000 – one which is highly likely to run 250,000 miles with no engine or tranny problems. Have not read many good reviews on the Subaru engines due to the head gaskets. Many Honda’s have automatic tranny problems, and their 6 speed trannys are apparently crap per the internet. Think most of the Toyotas have some issues such as engine speed control, etc. Found a very nice looking Ford F-150, but read that particular year had many engine fires while the vehicle was parked and which resulted in burning down the truck and adjacent buildings! Lot of other Ford trucks (and others of all types including cars) have a habit of blowing spark plugs out of the engine – this is sick stuff – are they giving engineering degrees to SJWs or something?!?! WTF!

    Good gawd almighty! WTF is wrong with car companies. None of them seem to be worth a shi t. Guess I’ll keep my old manual tranny Honda with 256,000 trouble free miles and just get the front suspension rebuilt, which is about all it needs. I did replace the distributor at around 180 or 200K just in case the bearings were getting worn – I had those bearings to fail on a previous Honda at around 200K, which resulted in a melted rotor – engine does not run well with melted rotor – replaced distributor and kept going. 🙂 I always buy old strippy model cars, Honda’s lately, that are simple – roll up windows, few electronics, lots of room under the hood, no air conditioning, 5-speed manual tranny, etc. Speaking of room under the hood who was the dumb azz that started shortening the hood on new cars so the engine has to fit part way back under the dash – you can’t get to the back side of it – IDIOTS!

    Other than the car I own, are there ANY rock-solid reliable used cars out there for less than $5,000? From all accounts, the newer the car now-days, the less reliable it is and the more dealers will screw you when, not if, it breaks down.

    I’m getting much of my info from carcomplaints.com, articles like this one and from YouTube videos; Scotty Kilmer and others have good ones.

    Thanks again for the article!

    1. Hey Robert,

      You have pointed out one very important detail and that’s all cars have issues. I am glad you have done that kind of research and didn’t just come to the conclusion only Subaru’s suck, which is kinda the norm around here with some posters.

      There just isn’t any reason to buy another car if the one you own never wears anything out or ever needs repairs.

      1/3 of our society assumes a car payment is a fact of life and buy something new every 3-6 years
      1/3 of our society will keep a car for 5-10 years complaining about every nickel that goes into it.
      1/3 of our society actually gets it and, keeps there car until we tell them we just can’t get parts for it anymore and its time to move on.

      All cars have their issues, many if repaired correctly just don’t have the same ones over and over in my opinion.

      Thanks for your post and I greatly appreciate how you went about it

      -Justin

  16. Hello Justin-

    My son and I want to buy 2 Subaru cars. I will buy a 2018 Forester and my son want the 2020 Crosstrek, both with manual transmission. Can you tell me what common problems has these 2 models?.

    Thanks in advance!
    Andrew.

  17. Hi Justin-

    Thank you so much for this resource AND keeping it updated by answering questions. Much appreciated!

    I had a 2006 Subaru Outback 2.5 and had the dreaded “head gasket” failure at around 90k miles. Later on I also had a 2011 Outback 2.5 and had the same head gasket failure at about 100k miles.

    I’ve read that the 2013+ Outback 2.5 engines no longer have the HG issues? I also heard the same thing after buying the last two generations and found out it was B.S.!

    So what is the story with the 2013+ and the redesigned FB engine??

    Thanks!
    Michelle

    1. Hello Michelle,

      So the FB 2.5l came out in 2011 in the Forester, 2013 in the Legacy and Outback.

      To date we do not see HG issues with these engines, some have oil leaks form Timing covers and cam cases, some do not. Some use oil some do not.

      So the story is no HG issues on the FB to tell of, however just like every other car maker there are some things we see like I have mentioned above.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  18. Hi Justin,

    Thank you for the article.

    I am thinking of buying a 2020 Forester Premium. Do you know the HG problem may still exist in this newest model?

    Thank you.

    Christine

    1. Hello Christine,

      So the 2020 Forester has an “FB” series engine. The engines that had Head gaskets issues were the “EJ” series that were phased out in 2010 in the Forester model and 2012 in the Outback/Legacy.

      Some FB engines mostly pre 2015 did have some oil consumption issues, but Subaru did extend the warranty out on those vehicles and has really stood behind the product.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  19. Looking at a used 2018 Subaru Outback with 38,000 miles. We had the car inspected by a Subaru dealer all they came back with was the car didn’t have Subaru antifreeze in it. Should I be concerned? Also car only has one key, any idea what a key will cost me?
    Thanks

    1. Hey Bob,

      That’s a concern as why did that occur? But shouldn’t be a deal breaker unless it point s to it was in a car accident? The dealer may have no idea what they are looking for either if they are trying to spot a car that was hit and repaired.

      Probably okay, but its just curious as to why it had the wrong coolant.

      -Justin

  20. Hello, thank you for your informative website and the following comes with the caveat that try as I might, my car got worked on at the dealership as the result of an extended warranty requirement though all future work will certainly happen at an independent subaru shop. My dad taught me to avoid a dealer mechanic if possible but circumstances landed me at one.

    Last year (2018) I bought a 2012 Subaru Outback 2.5 limited with about 52,000 miles. Did the 60,000 recommended maintenance (spark plugs etc) at around 58,700 just to get it out of the way.  

    At 63,588 on a family trip my “Cruise” light flashes + the “brake” light flashes and off in addition to the check engine on the way home from a weekend family trip with my first baby in tow. I pull over pretty nervous, and there’s a sweet smell, some fluid around the front with the radiator fluid reservoir just below “Max.”

    Check the code and its P0117 (The Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor converts the coolant temperature into a voltage that is high when the engine is cold and low as the engine warms up. Code P0117 indicates a low voltage input from the Coolant Temperature Circuit to the PCM.)

    I keep driving and the thermostat starts blinking on occasionally so I pull over to avoid heating, then cautiously make my way to the nearest Subaru dealership. They tell me the head gaskets blown. After 2-3 weeks back and forth with the extended warranty company, (Easycare) they tell me the original source was a faulty thermostat and they won’t be covering through the Easycare powertrain warranty.

    Long story short, after reaching out for mercy, Subaru of America stepped in to cover about half of the whole job, and I saw your advice about doing the water pump / timing belt while the head gaskets are being done as pre-maintenance so I requested that as well.

    MY QUESTION: what can I do going forward to preempt the next big issue so it whatever happens next won’t come as a blindside? I follow the oil-change schedule, as well as the recommended maintenance jobs but now I’m wondering what smaller signs I can pay attention to weekly/monthly to get the most out of this recent big repair? Look for fluid dripping in certain areas? Check the fuses more often? I worry this was a small problem that turned into a big one and I have to chalk the whole thing up to experience, but want to make smarter choices in the future.

    Thank you for any consideration and if you know any good shops in the San Gabriel Valley, California area, I’d be happy to give them some business.

    1. Hey Ryan,

      I hate hearing these types of stories, but I guess its good you got some help.

      Because the 2012 doesn’t have a temperature gauge which is just a bad idea, I would look at a smart phone app with a dongle for the diagnostic connector, you can set up an alert at a specific temp on some apps, or if you prefer monitor it on your device. I did this on my 2012 H6 because I wanted to know my Coolant temp values.

      The 2010-2012’s 2.5I can develop internal HG issues after a overheating event for sure, but I doubt it was the Thermostat, Id have liked to test that in hot water if it was me.

      Always pay attention to fluid levels of course but I strongly suggest a OBDII dongle and a smart phone app to monitor temperature.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  21. I have a 2004 Subaru Impreza Outback. I bought it new . It began leaking oil out of the driver side head gasket at about 60K. It now has 134K and its still there. The dealer says it will be about $2,500 to change the head gaskets and install a new clutch. A hiccup in the way to 300,000 miles according to this website. I get a 12 month 12000 mile warranty with it too. My plan is to drive till it stops. $2500.00 is cheaper than a car payment. Without maintenance costs, this car has been cheap to own. I have replaced the radiator and the back pads ( were wearing out incorrectly due to caliper not sliding) It still has the OEM axles on all 4 corners and the boots are perfect It also has the OEM front brake pads too.
    Maintenance oil change with synthetic – every 6000 miles. New Subaru coolant every 30k and thermostat every other change ( cheap insurance) . New spark plugs at 60K . Timing belt and all the pulleys at 105K . Brake fluid change every 3 years.

  22. Hi justin.
    First I would like to say thank you for all the information you put on your site about Subaru’s. I have done of ton of online searching about my problem and didn’t really find too much info for my year not even on the Subaru’s website. I know they are famous for headgasket problems (didn’t know until after I got the car and had a problem with it and first Subaru and still have payments left on it)
    I have a 2012 outback with a 2.5 that the second it reached 120,000 it headed up and of course with no temperature gauge and just an idoit light i didn’t notice it until the light came on then started flashing and the cruise light and brake light was flashing all at the same time so i pulled over checked the coolant level and it was full and hot and bubbling like it was overheating. I was close to home so I just let the fans run until it cooled down and made it home put it on the ramps thinking it was the thermostat I left it at home and took my gfs truck to the auto parts store to get a new thermostat and new coolant well 2 stats later 2 flushes leaving everything open making sure no blockage anywhere closing the system leak check on the system (holds 15psi and doesn’t move) with the thermostat in the lower radiator hose and heater core hoses don’t heat up at opp temp with the thermostat out the upper and lowers heat up but the heater core hoses dont at opp temp. I even tested all of the thermostats and they open when hot. I’m not getting white smoke out the tail pipe no coolant in the oil no oil in the coolant no leaks anywhere like I said it holds pressure no problem dosen’t budge but with the system closed with water and running there was just a little bit of bubbles coming out the radiator every so often I pretty much gave up and I’m thinking that the headgaskets need to be replaced.
    Any help I would appreciate it. Thank yall in advance

    1. Hello Kenny,

      So I guess I will start with when was the cooling system serviced, and who monitors and tops off the coolant? We see a few internal HG’s on the 2010-2012 EJ 2.5l but not that many, you wont see smoke out of the tailpipe, coolant in the oil. When they are really bad you will smell exhaust in the overflow bottle and may see some oil from combustion in the overflow bottle.

      If you didn’t buy a Thermostat from Subaru take it out and make a necklace out of it for your dog or something as the aftermarket thermostat can’t do any harm to your Subaru from there. If its a Subaru Stat great job! If its one from a parts store get it out.

      It sounds like you have an air pocket you need to burp out, you of course vacuumed the air out of the system and filled with the proper tooling, bought and installed a coolant fill funnel prior to topping off and running? If none of that happened, that’s what needs to.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  23. Great article thanks for sharing. Now that a few more years and miles have graced the 2005-2009 EZ30R engines I’m interested if you have seen further HG failures and what type of failures may have occured ?

    1. Hey Andrew,

      We do a few here and there, still mostly high mileage and or after a major overheating event.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

      1. Hi Justin, I am looking at possibly buying a 1994 subaru justy with the 3 cylinder 9 valve (1200 cc I believe) engine, and it is burning oil. The current owner tells me that it doesn’t burn a whole lot, but a quart every month or so definitely seems like a lot for such a small engine, and there was a very large cloud of smoke out of the exhaust when I revved the engine up. I was wondering if the oil burning was a problem caused by a leaking head gasket, or if it’s something else like piston rings or possibly a problem with the valves? The current owner also just adjusted something with the valves (I cannot remember what he did exactly) so he could have done some faulty work, but that could just be speculation as well lol. The car has around 194k miles. Thank you!

        1. Hey Nick,

          Oil burning is most likely worn oil control rings if its that significant.

          I would be hard pressed to suggest a 1994 Justy as a good car to still buy. They are not easy to get parts for anymore at all.

          Hope that helps

          -Justin

    1. So far so good, I still prefer the 3.6l however, I think the current era Outback with the 3.6l and the CVT is a great combination.

      -Justin

      1. Hi Justin.
        I’m planning on replacing my head gaskets and timing belt soon by myself. 2003 Outback 2.5L. 90k miles, The belt is original and the oil dripping on the exhaust is pretty much constant.fumes.

        Aside from buying your part kits (which i will do), Can you give me some general advice? Typical problems for a first-timer. I’m reasonably skilled and have all the necessary tools.

        My plan is weekend 1 – remove engine and dismantle. Get the heads surfaced (if needed) during the week and reassemble on weekend 2.

        Should I machine the heads if they look okay?
        New head bolts?

        I believe i have a PDF of the factory manual, but is there a better guide?

        Anything else?

        Thanks!!
        Bill

        1. Justin,

          I should have asked:

          – I’m pretty sure it’s the head gaskets – meets all the criteria – it’s not the oil-fill tube, for example, but I can’t actually see it leak from the head/block interface – should i look harder to verify it’s the head gasket leaking?

          Where and how?

          1000 thanks!
          Bill

          1. You can, or you can try and take pictures and email those to us and we can try and help you identify what you have going on.

            Hope that helps

            -Justin

        2. Hi Bill,

          You have a well thought out plan. When you buy the kit from us you also get a Repair guide I wrote as well as tech support form my parts manager who used to be a Technician.

          When ever you are ready give us a try and we will be here to help you

          Thanks

          -Justin

          1. Hello. I was considering buying a used Subaru for my daughter until I ran into a few used ones that mentioned either recently replaced head gaskets or some that needed head gaskets. I usually do my own mechanical work but head gasket issues scare me because until you disassemble you don’t know really what you’ll find … maybe a warped block surface, or a crack. That changes the game from repairable to cost prohibitive.

            I appreciated your explanations around the Subaru head gasket issues but I feel that your explanation of the surfaces of the head gasket being eaten away by the coolant seem to fall flat based on what a gasket’s function is. Isn’t the limit of exposure to the coolant and anything else the gasket is sealing supposed to be limited to the very edges of the gasket? The only thing in contact with the surfaces of the gasket should be the two surfaces it’s sealing.

            If the coolant actually makes contact with the surfaces of the gasket it’s already “game over”. Either the gasket failed or the two surfaces the gasket is sealing are warping past the ability of the gasket to do it’s job. Either one is a design problem and one that has been solved by most domestic and foreign manufacturers.

            Head gasket issues were quite prevalent in the 80’s with a number of aluminum head engines with iron blocks, mostly US made ones. These were reluctantly accepted due to the new bi metal engine configurations but why would ANY manufacturer still be having these issues 40 years later? I’m not on the front lines of this but I rarely hear of “brand wide” head gasket failures even from the lowly domestic manufacturers.

            This has proven to be solvable as evidenced by the other brands. The frustration is why doesn’t Subaru care enough to solve it?

          2. Hey Alex,

            Thanks for the post. I will try to address each question, concern or statement I guess.

            So not all cars are the same, nor motors or repair requirements, they differ greatly.

            If you know the vehicle or can find out if it is common for a block or head to crack you will have a lot more proper and useful information. Subaru’s don’t typically crack blocks or heads unless severely overheated, which is not the reason the head gaskets are replaced on the NA Subaru, it’s because of external oil leaks, sometimes developing into external coolant leaks, and if both of those leaks are allowed to go on for an extended period of time it will cause an overheat. I am speaking about the 2nd gen 2.5l found in the 1999-2010 Forester, 2000-2012 Outback and Legacy with this statement. External oil leaks from the head gasket is just not the same as “Blowing a Headgasket” the later is a term from the 70’s and 80’s and 90’s, that’s just not what we are talking about here.

            Exposure to fluids starts with the edge of the gasket but does not end there, you must also consider expansion rates of the cylinder head VS the block. Overtime if the fluids are allowed to become contaminated will slowly over time cause deterioration of the gasket edge and surface. Also how thick the gasket is, how many sides of the gasket are in contact through the cooling system ports between engine block and cylinder head also matter.

            Subaru is not the only one having head gaskets replaced by any stretch of the imagination. Try a search about Mercedes sometimes or BMW 325I, the difference probably is the clientele do not go on the internet and rant as often, they just pay the bill, but I promise its an issue.. Being in the industry and having friends that also are that I still stay in touch with helps me understand this and I constantly want to know typical issues for other makes. The FB engine Subaru has used over the last 8 years have not had any real HG issues by the way, some other challenges for sure, but not HG.

            The horizontal engine platform means that external fluid leaks from the head gasket will reveal themselves quicker than they might on an inline or V design due to gravity and the location of the cylinder head to block surface with regards to the earth. On a Subaru it’s 1 foot away from the ground or less, on many other makes several feet from the ground, and takes a lot longer to turn into a drip on the driveway. The horizontal engine platform allows for the rest of the platform, which employs the only symmetrical AWD system and low center of gravity. I guess what I am saying is you can’t have it all sometimes and you must always decide as a consumer what your priorities are of course.

            With all of the emissions control systems on modern vehicles, they are more about not creating exhaust content rather than real longevity. When is the last time you saw the TV add Toyota used to run for all of the high mileage vehicles, its not because it wasn’t good marketing its because its just not as true as it once was.

            Anyways, I hope you find your daughter something you will be happy with. If you find a Subaru with an oil leak from the HG I just wouldn’t be afraid of it.

            Thanks

            -Justin

  24. Hi Justin!
    Outback 1998 here in Brazil, 60 k miles, mostly highway, extremely good condition, only 2 owners. No signal of leaks or that the engine has been opened.
    My question:
    Do you think that I must do the HG job preventively or it’s better to wait early symptoms of HG failure? I mean, you believe that this original HG will die at some moment, sooner or later?
    Thanks!!

    1. Hello Sandro,

      That’s a great Question and yes I believe that the HG in your 1998 will fail at some point in time, but have no idea when. Id just keep an eye on the condition of the coolant in the Overflow bottle and at the first sign of exhaust smell or oily residue I would just get it done.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

      1. Helps a lot, Justin. By the way, my HG repair kit will come from you!!
        Thanks and keep up the good work … and sharing all your valuable knowledge!

        -Sandro

  25. Hi Justin,
    Excellent blog.. I find it to be very thorough and to the point. I have never owned a Subaru, but have only heard good things about them. I am looking at a 2004 legacy gt with only 34,000 miles on it. While the mileage is ultimately an attractive feature, it does worry me that it has possibly sat for long periods. I do plan on a prepurchase inspection, but just wanted to get your thoughts on the year and model I am looking at and what pitfalls to look out for/what to tell my local independant to look for?

    1. Hi Gene,

      Nothing out of the normal, but the Head gaskets should be scrutinized as always.

      Also sometimes wheel bearings can go sooner based on the amount of time it sits.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  26. G’day from Western Australia. Thanks for the all the effort you’ve put into this blog, Justin, and your community spirit in sharing your knowledge so willingly.

    I now know why the two used Foresters I’ve looked at (an ’05 and an ’06) have both had evidence of a very small oil leak in exactly the same place (rear underside of head). It had me scratching my head as to why the underbodies rearward of the leaks were so clean despite evidence that oil had been leaking for quite a while, until your Part II blog explained that “mystery” (the “diaper” that soaks it up).

    Because there was no oil smear rearward of the engine, I almost convinced myself when looking at the second car that the oil was from a spillage during a past service and nearly bought the car, but thankfully my cautious nature made me back off and do more research – which is what lead me to your blog.

    We already have a multi-owner Gen 3 2L 1998 Liberty manual wagon (released earlier here than in the US) with about 150000 kms / 93000 miles on the clock and despite some doubts that it has been regularly serviced, so far we’ve had no problems except a clutch at what I think is a reasonable 130000 kms/ 81000 miles. There was no record of the timing belt being done at 100000 kms (Subaru Australia recommended interval – don’t understand why US recommended interval is so different. Surely the belts are made in the same factory?) so we had it done just in case.

    We’re looking for a used automatic around 2003 – 2007 vintage as my wife a few days ago discovered she could no longer operate the clutch due to a worn out knee. She was also starting to find it hard to slide into the driver’s seat of the low-slung Liberty, so after trying an Outback and finding that borderline, we’re now looking for a Forester for the even higher seat…..which leads me to a question.

    What do you think of the H6 Foresters of that vintage? I like the idea of a good old fashioned timing chain and maybe they have a more reliable HG? We don’t need a big engine, but if the economy of the six is similar to the four-banger and it’s more reliable, maybe it’s a better choice. Only problem might be finding one as they’re rarer than the 2.5L

    Thanks again for what you do.

    1. Hello Kevin,

      I Really like the H6 engines for a long list of reasons

      Smoother Idle
      Quieter drivetrain
      Less possibility of external HG leaks
      More power
      Not that much of a mileage drop over the 4

      Having said that here are the cons

      Higher Maint Costs
      Cost more to repair if it has a HG issue
      Some models require premium fuel
      Parts can be a little harder to source.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  27. My 2010 Subaru, purchased new at Anchor Subaru in Smithfield RI has been diagnosed with head gasket problem. This is a KNOWN AND PROVEN defect of manufacturing on the part of Subaru and is very expensive to fix (around $2000. by their own service dept. estimates). I have kept every record of oil changes and any other maintenance record on my car, have taken meticulous care of my vehicle over these 6+ years of sole-ownership and am, none-the-less, by no fault of my own am now facing having to repair the head gaskets which are inherent defects in Subaru. When dealing with Mr Justin removed the name at Subaru headquarters after leaving my car at the dealership for nine days (it has taken them this entire tome just to “assess”) I am told that Subaru is willing only to cover $500. in costs leaving me with the responsibility of the $1500. or more outstanding balance. This is bogus and unacceptable for a problem that has NOTHING to do with my driving. I will NEVER buy another Subaru and recommend to all buyers …BEWARE. SUbaru has a track record of expensive goof-ups that they do not stand behind.

    1. Hello Doriana,

      Sorry you feel that way and what ever you by next you fare better with.

      -Justin

  28. I’ve been smelling hot coolant and after checking radiator -it uses about a cup or two of coolant when i check it so i took my 2007 Subaru outback wagon with 90,000 miles on it to the mechanic. He found coolant leak on the exhaust and did a compression check. The compression on the cylinder where he thought it was leaking was 116. Only one cylinder was close to 130 the other two were in the 120’s . He recommended an eventual head gasket replacement. Will he have to take the engine out to do replacement? I don’t want to tell the mechanic what to do and he says he’s done a number of these gasket replacements but how can i know for sure that he is doing the job the way you’d recommend. He’s not a dealer just a private shop. He came highly recommended. Any other suggestions? Thank you! He’s scheduled it for next week.

    1. Hi John,

      I am really kind of confused by this, the HG leak isn’t going to be the cause of low compression unless its an internal HG failure which would mean the car is overheating. So the Compression loss needs to be accurately diagnosed prior to any repairs. Also the numbers in all cylinders seem low to me, so I am just at loss to how best advise you here. This is something where I would need to see the car myself to understand whats going on, either there is something lost in communication between you and the shop or the shop is not your best choice.

      Sorry to be so blunt, but it’s a big deal to find the right shop for your Subaru, not for just this, but for all of your needs going forward, the experience you will have with your Subaru will really be dictated by where you choose to have it serviced.

      -Justin

  29. We’ve had Subarus in the past, and are now looking at a 2005 Outback with about 150,000 miles. The Carfax report says the head gaskets were replaced at about 60,000 miles. A visual inspection of the engine show no obvious seepage of oil or coolant at the case/head joints or elsewhere. The coolant looks clean.

    Can you give us any prognosis as to what to expect and whether this vehicle might be a good bet?

    Also, we are in Minnesota. Could you refer us to a good Subaru shop in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area for an inspection? (I used to be a mechanic, but obviously this is a complex vehicle and I don’t know what, specifically, to look for beyond the obvious).

    1. Hi Alan,

      I have family in MN but just don’t have a shop to send you to, and that’s what you really need to find is a good Independent Shop near you, let them perform a Pre Purchase inspection, otherwise you just don’t know what you are buying.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  30. Justin, I live in western pa and of course this is a bad area for salted roads. I have a son who lives in northern Louisiana and a daughter in Austin Tx. I was thinking about getting a one way airline ticket to one of these locations for a visit, then purchasing a Forester and driving it home. While searching Craigslist Austin cars for sale by owner I came across several Foresters where the owners said the head gaskets were recently replaced. The mileage between the repair and the selling mileage was only several thousand miles difference. This led me to believe they were getting out while the getting was good. I was curious about the need for repairs to the head gaskets which led me to your site. You had mentioned on several posts I read that a non dealer repair should get the engine to last quite a while longer with the proper maintenance. one of the ads said that FelPro gaskets were used. Is this a good make of gasket compared to the OEM ones? By the way I was quite shocked to find out that Subaru engines were having repeated problems that went so long without being corrected.

    1. Hello Lee,

      Thanks for the Questions

      First of all I would want you to Run and not walk away from any Subaru that has had a head gasket repair made with Felpro gaskets.

      It points to either a general Auto repair shop or a DIY situation.

      Look instead for Subaru’s repaired with Six Star gaskets. This would indicate a Independent Subaru shop made the repairs and that is the best place to start, from there find a Subaru shop that can perform a Pre Purchase Inspection.

      Hope that helps and Happy Holidays

      -Justin

      1. Is there a way to tell, without records or disassembly, what type or make of head gaskets have been used?

        I would take your advice to avoid Fel-Pro gaskets, but am curious what’s wrong with them–what the failure modes are.

        Thanks.

        1. Hi Alan,

          A trained eye can spot the Felpro gaskets, this is not easy to try and explain what to look for over the internet or the phone for that matter.

          As far as why we don’t suggest them, because we lots only last a year, there are other post that highlight this on our website.

          Hope that helps

          -Justin

  31. I am looking at a 2009 Subaru 2,5 X. What can be told to me about this. I hear head gasket problem can cost 2,100. Has 91,000 and maintained well with one owner.

    Scared

    Thanks

  32. hello Justin,

    2015 subaru legacy 2.5i prem. CEL light on cruise flashing and code is U0284.
    what is this code and what is problem.

    items prior to code ; had two subaru recalls performed two days prior to CEL
    changed oil and filter per recommendations w/ subaru filter about
    1400 miles prior to CEL coming on.

    27000 miles on car.

    1. Hi Joe,

      Without diagnosing the car no one knows whats the matter with it. It needs to be diagnosed locally and its still under warranty. Not knowing which recalls were just done makes it hard to know if they could be related.

      Its a Network code, so anything is possible.

      -Justin

  33. Hi Justin,

    Before I inquire, I wanted to say thank you. I have read most of the comments in this entire thread, and your time and effort into assisting and answering people is inspiring and appreciated. It means a lot to me and I’ve just been reading the comments.

    But I do have a question I was hoping you could help with.

    I am in the market for a used Subaru, and I have been looking into the legacy wagons, anywhere in the 95′- 02′ range, mileage anywhere from 150-220k. Having done quite a bit of reading, it seems like the best(safest?) choice would be too look for a 2.2L engine, but i’m finding that most of the wagons being sold are the 2.5L.

    Some of the 2.5L vehicles I’ve been looking at have already have had the Head Gaskets replaced- sometimes recently, whereas others have not seemed to have that head gasket failure yet.

    I do realize that not all 2.5L engines are destined to fail and that it depends greatly on how you treat the vehicle, and I take great care of the cars I own.

    With this in mind,
    Is a 2.5L Subaru with replaced head gaskets likely to last a while, or does it show that the HGs are doomed to fail again?

    Would a 2.5L Subaru that has not had HG issues with similar mileage be a wiser choice?

    Thanks again,
    Ted K.

    1. Hello Ted,

      All good questions but really hard to factually answer.

      So not all 2.5l will have a head gasket issue, but many will. A repaired Subaru in theory should be a good way to go, but if it was repaired at the Dealer, its just going to have same gasket that has already failed once, repaired by a guy who is in a hurry and it’s not going to last.

      If its repaired with the Six Star head gaskets we use here, repaired by a Independent Subaru shop that cares and values their customers well that’s a better scenario.

      Your not going to find a Subaru with 2.2l worth buying, that ship has sailed.

      I do like the idea of buying a Subaru at a depressed price that needs a Head gasket repair provided the rest of the car is solid, you then have a shop like ours make the repairs, establish a relationship with that shop and yo will have a good experience in most cases.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

      1. Hey Justin,

        Thanks for your Feedback, I really appreciate you taking the time to give thoughtful responses to everyone including myself.

        I just picked up a 1998 2.5L legacy outback in excellent condition, with no history of head gaskets. If i ever find myself in your part of Washington ill make sure to bring it in.

        Ted

  34. Justin ~ Maybe you’ve done this (I didn’t read all the posts); if not, if I were you I’d acknowledge the HG problem is excessive because it is, and perhaps the weak wheel bearings in some Subarus, and continue to focus on the cars legitimate saving graces. Few Japanese, or now Korean, makes have common problems as extensive & expensive as Subaru’s HG woes. A reasonably smart reader knows this, so trying to say any Honda or Toyota has problems comparable is laughable to many and harms your credibility.

    I still drive a `72 Volvo 1800ES with more than 600,000 miles on it and it’s better than new. It has cost within a few bucks of $250/year to keep and improve over some 40 years, beyond the usual gas, oil, tires, etc. I do almost of the wrenching including an engine rebuild , suspension overhaul and limited-slip installation.

    I inherited my dead sister’s 1993 Impreza, the first year they looked like Baby Huey’s head, and knowing nothing of Subarus, assumed it a throw-away car. It had about 65,000 miles on it when I got it and I drove the hell out of it until it had well over 200,000 with very few problems, gaskets still fine on it’s 1800cc boxer! I sold it to a kid when it began looking pretty ratty, wishing I’d taken good care of it from the start. Given the same care all its life my 1800 gets, it would still be my daily driver.

    Now that the Volvo’s more a collector car I’d love to have a new Subaru but they’re too big. I’d buy an `08 Outback in a minute – the last of the nice-size & handsome Outbacks with good room inside. I won’t though, due to the inherent HG and bearing problems. I suspect I’ll end up with a Hyundai. `Too bad as I really like everything else about those Subarus – the build quality, superior roll-center, superb handling, the engineering in general except those fatal flaws. Those HGs are a crying shame since the rest is so great.

    To many, if they can find a shop like I understand yours is that does good, smart work, to rectify the HG and bearing woes, they’d still find happiness in a Subaru. I believe you would do yourself a favor to acknowledge the HGs as the real problems they are and concentrate on the honest goodness of the rest of the car instead of suggesting other makes are as bad in other ways. I believe you’ll keep more readers’ respect.

    Best wishes,
    Bt

    1. Hello Brooks,

      Thanks for the Post.

      So to try and address this for you. In my eyes, I have written several posts, replied to thousands of comments, helped develop a head gasket to be used in the aftermarket when repairing Subaru head gaskets, tried to relay how the Subaru should be maintained, tried to explain all car companies want you to continue to buy cars. So I guess I have done more then anyone I have come across to bring light to the situation. I am just a small shop owner in the corner of the Pacific North West, there are business dynamics at work here that few understand and all cars have issues.

      As far as other cars not having the same type of issues as Subaru? I guess I am in a different camp then you are having a lot of friends in the industry involved with other makes and models and can point you to car owner forums stating quite the opposite to your thoughts. When someone owns a Subaru or is considering one don’t you think it’s fair to point out the faults of another car? To me it’s called a fair comparison, or a sympathetic way of trying to explain that your not alone, and most cars have issues. To help address that “darn it if I would have only bought the _______ car in 2008 instead of this Subaru I wouldn’t be replacing the head gaskets right now” with the real world wait a minute, if you had bought insert this model ___________ here lets look at real data to see what you may have encountered, lets do some real research and learn the truth, not just believe everything you read on the internet and understand that the only truth comes from real conversations with a lot of owners by way of forums and candid conversations with the techs that service other makes.

      A lot of the current problems with cars is this

      Customers want less maintenance
      The EPA wants less emissions and better fuel economy
      The Internal combustion engine is not capable of being clean with out a multitude of secondary systems and systems to monitor those systems with even more systems and systems to monitor those systems coming out every year.

      I would put a newer Subaru up against another car in it’s class such as Audi and Volvo and compare notes after 10 years. I still firmly believe they make good, safe reliable cars, but no car is perfect. The head gaskets were addressed with the FB engines, but only to encounter new problems with low tension oil control rings to try and decrease friction and increase economy to satisfy the EPA. This is something that also affects Most other car companies, google oil consumption problems next to pick a make.

      You mention the Impreza as still having the same gaskets in it at 200k, where I have replaced a lot of 1.8l Impreza head gaskets through the years.

      I also sincerely hope before you buy the model car you are considering you genuinely look into the engine problems those cars have.

      Happy hunting and glad your doing research.

      -Justin

  35. Hi Justin,

    Thanks for the information provided here.

    I had an aftermarket warranty on my 2008 Subaru impreza 2.5i with 96000kms. There was a oil leak last year and I took it into the dealership and they said it was the valve cover so I replaced it for around $300. The warranty has since expired and I’m now told that it looks like my head gasket is leaking but they haven’t confirmed this and will at my next visit but I’m sure it is based on how many of these are failing. I was told that inexperience people change the valve cover when it’s actually the head gasket, so now I’m upset that this would have been covered under warranty last year.

    I’m debating what to do if it’s confirmed that it’s my head gasket. I’m thinking that I’ll change both gaskets at the same time. Also the timing belt, thermostat, water pump while the engine is out of the car. Can you think of anything else that I should or shouldn’t do?

    Thanks,
    Cory

    1. Hello Cory,

      It’s difficult to comment on if it was the HG the whole time, I will say that if its leaking bad enough to need to be done now, there had to have been signs last year..

      When the Head Gaskets are replaced I would look for a Independent Subaru shop that uses the Six Star Subaru Head gaskets and not let the Dealer do the repair, they will not be taking the engine out and they will use the exact same gasket that’s already let you down once.

      -Justin

  36. I have a 2003 baja, ibought it new. I now have 340000 miles on her. I have done HG VG and 3 WHEEL BEARINGS……..SAME MOTOR SAME TRANNY NEW BATTERY JUST THIS YEAR 2016. ALWAYS DID OIL CHANGES3000 MILES.now i am shopping for a new one,why because check engine lights been on for a few years.I have beat that system a feww times……looking for another baja

  37. I am looking at a new ’16/’17 WRX Limited. Has the new 2.0L FA20DIT engine been able to move beyond the head gasket issues? Any other problems or concerns on this engine? Thanks!

  38. Hi Justin,

    What should I expect a HG repair to cost on a 2005 Forester Turbo? I got a quote from an independent mechanic and unless I seriously misheard its around $4000… This seems crazy to me.

    1. Hi Brad,

      Depends on what all is being included in the quote. if its head gaskets plus machine shop work, plus water pump, timing components, etc it might be legit, if its just the gaskets and labor its probably high, but I have no idea what the market is like where you live unless you live in Seattle, this is why I do not offer to give prices for repairs where we do not operate.

      It’s truly like asking me how much a three bedroom house should cost. The answer is all over the map, depending where on the map you are.

      -Justin

  39. Justin,

    Simple question –

    I have a 2007 Basic Outback with 190k and need head gasket replacement – Is there a better head gasket alternative to the standard OEM version (maybe the XT Turbo gasket) that I should request from dealer before repair?
    Not sure if the dealer will be willing to deviate from standard parts protocol though.

    1. Hi Dave,

      Look for an Independent Shop that uses the Six Star gasket, you will not receive any value having it done at the Dealership

      Justin

  40. OK. Every car has it’s issues. I work in the industry for a place that does a lot of work on Subaru vehicles. There’s no denying they’ve had their head gasket problems. There’s also no denying they are generally a high maintenance vehicle when compared to toyota and honda. If you disagree with that statement, just go check the subaru maintenance schedule, especially severe service (most of new england technically falls under this category…also a popular area for subaru). You will find they suggest changing fluids far more often than other makes. Spark plugs are changed more often also and depending on the year, timing belts to top it off. There’s nothing wrong with this really…..but people don’t know what they are getting into. They buy the car and don’t look into these things and then complain later when they see a service quote. People in general scoff at having to maintain a vehicle….or anything else for that matter. No one likes to pay to repair things.

    Diff services every 15k, SVT fluid changes every 30k, brake fluid changes every 30k. Spark plug changes at 1/2 of the mileage that most newer honda + toyota vehicles suggest. That adds up to a lot of money over time. Then you have to deal with a potential head gasket issue @ 75k-120k. If it has a timing belt you can add that to the list and possibly do that when/if your head gasket leaks. There’s a ton of smaller nitpicky repairs I could name but it wouldn’t be fair to subaru because any car is going to have similar things happen. I’m just going purely on their schedule (pulled from alldata). I’ll leave my opinion out of it…that is just what they say.

    Justin is right that if you compare brands and factor in having AWD, Audi and Volvo aren’t much better….especially Audi….but if you want lower overall maintenance costs and plan on keeping your vehicle into the 120k+ range, you are much better off with a 4 cylinder fwd toyota or honda. It’s just going to cost less to maintain period. All that being said….I would still consider a subaru. They have their issues but so does everything else.

    P.S. What’s with these places doing one head gasket? That’s just plain ridiculous. If you’re going to do one, just do the other one with it and save yourself the time/money/hassle of doing the other later.

    1. Hi Dave,

      Thanks for the Comment

      Couple of points to clear up, the Diff service interval is 30k always has been since the Loyal, which is the same as Honda and Toyota based on same use, the coolant is the same interval, the CVT fluid not SVT fluid is 90-100k.

      Depending on which Model Toyota or Honda you compare it to the overall maint. costs are on par, especially if you compare apples to apples such as AWD to AWD

      Subaru phased out timing belts for a while now.

      Lastly if you call a Toyota or Honda Dealer and ask about the price of a 60k service, then a Subaru dealer for a comparable model they will be very close in price. If there is truly less to actually do on the Honda or Toy, why is the price so high? I can only speak for the Dealers around here I might add, and its quite possible the ones where you live have a different program, everything here is severe as well unless you are buying the car..

      Have never understood doing HG in the Car or just one side either but that’s some Dealers program.

      -Justin

  41. A vote for spending on HG repairs to keep the 2007 Forester that meets all my needs?

    My Forester now has gaskets seeping on one side, mild leak on other head. My trusted mechanic shows me cost up to $3500-4300 to do a lot of repairs while doing gasket job..all necessary IF i keep the car. (water pump/rack & pinion/coolant, etc..a well detailed estimate..sobering but these are the facts)

    I already DO NOT like anything new I see or even newer used cars.

    I must decide to shop for a new/used car- which I can afford to buy, OR since I LOVE this one, and can afford, at just 69K miles to get it repaired & keep it another 5-7 years.

    ( ( I put just 30K on since 2/2010 And I am doing the “severe” issue of 6-10 miles or less a day, <5K miles a year on it.. which may be why I have this issue with seep/leak now)

    Americans have pressure to "buy New" or "treat yourself" and not 'maintain/make do' which is more to my philosophy. I wanted 100K +miles on this car.

    Looking at 'similar' cars nothing appeals, too many gadgets/options/bluetooth etc I do not need

    The ONLY Forester years getting a good CR report are 2012-2013..I would NOT buy a new one 2014-2016 with 2nd massive lawsuit just filed on oil burn issues.

    I tend to maintain & keep my cars much longer anyway (10+ years) , so aside from minor body issues, dings with tiny rust why NOT repair and keep driving this 2007 vs spending $25000K+ on even a vlm 2014 Prius, or Scion or other boxy /good visibility car? ( all have massive techy options most people can't get to work, thick manuals, etc)
    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    PS My 2002 kept me alive after a horrible head on collision in 2010 ( 7 years old, well maintained, no issues), so I quickly bought this 2007 <40K miles, 'gently' used/inspected Forester NOT knowing of HG failures. This info was not online, or I missed it, but mechanics knew of the 100%fail rate.

    Maybe I am in shock over 'buying' process, but I don't want to be stupid with $$ either. I will be committed to keep the car longer if I spend this much on repairs.

    Thoughts/opinions? My mech shop uses NAPA parts, but I'd prefer to insist on the SixStar kit

    1. I would not use the Napa parts on a Japanese Car, even though Napa bought Alltrom, they still don’t have good options for Subaru which is why we don’t buy much if at all from them.

      -Justin

  42. Just bought a 2007 Subaru Outback 2.5i Wagon with 95,000 miles for $9,300. Fingers crossed! Thanks for the thread. As a firstitme Subaru owner I feel much better informed going into this. Even if I have to make a $2000 repair – knowing in advance makes it much more palatable rather than being surprised by it. Hopefully it isn’t coming anytime soon (would like to pay the car off first anyway) but if it is I feel like I got a decent bargain on this car. https://www.edmunds.com/subaru/outback/2007/used/vin/?vin=4S4BP61C777334328

  43. Justin,

    I have a question about my 05 LGT getting hot. I haven’t been having an issue with vehicle up until a long trip we just went on. I recently just did a belt/pump/thermostat service on it and it’s been over 1,000 miles ago. On the trip it was about 800 miles round trip all highway miles, and on the way down when I stopped, to fuel, I got back on the highway and noticed it was getting hot, to which it soon fell back down to normal range. Once we arrived at our spot I checked things over and it started getting hot again and the overflow was to the top. Even spilled out a little. The car was still hot when coming to a slow speed or stop but would cool down when driving faster. I let it sit over night and did not notice it getting hot in the morning before getting gas for the trip home.

    Once we got home I let it idle for a few minutes (because of a 400 mile drive) and it did get hot again, but didn’t seem as bad as the first time.

    This morning I drove to work 6.5miles, and once parked it seemed like the temp was rising again, but only slightly off the normal mark once the car was shut off.

    Should i be worried? Or, was this just something that happens with the turbo getting so hot from such a long trip? Thanks for any help you can offer!

    1. Hello Gabriel,

      It’s tough to say whats going on from here, but you do have to sort it out before you continue to drive it.

      I am not sure what you did to get the air out of the cooling system, so you may just have an air pocket.

      If you used an aftermarket Thermostat throw it away and get an O.E., if you used an OE from Subaru then start by looking for hot and cold spots in the Radiator, followed with smelling the coolant for any signs of an exhaust smell, which would indicate an issue with the head gaskets.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  44. I have been reading with much interest at people in America typically ‘whinge’ at only getting 77k-105k out of their Subaru Forester or legacy or wrx. You and they are all saying wow I wont buy another “subi”, as they cost way too much, to redo your head gaskets People get a life please. I live in Australia and our fuel is around $1.60 per litre, and you guys are only paying $0.75 per gallon so you think a cost of repairing your head gaskets at typically $2400-$3000 is way too much. our costs are similar but when you take into account the American dollar to the Australian dollar the cost of $2400 is around $4200 here. I don’t know of anyone in Australia that didn’t get 200k before their pride and joy’s needed the HG done. I must be one of the lucky ones as my 2003 Forrester is currently at 467k and is now only just needing the HG done, so I think the ‘subi’s’ are the best car in the world. I drive for work around 2800 km per month and up till now I have enjoyed sweet driving but my baby has had every service done at 200k before she needed. So if you love your car and treat her as well as you like to be treated, there is no reason she wont treat you well, just remember all cars need maintenance, so put a little away every payday and when your baby needs some major work done, you will be able to get it done without whinging because you had thought ahead. (be prepared) like the boy scouts of the world.
    Paul (Aussie, Aussie, Aussie)

  45. So I am looking at this ……

    2003 Subaru outback limited automatic trans. registration renewed 12/30/15. runs and drives great. low mileage 83k.
    inherited vehicle from family. no need for second vehicle. available to show weekday nights or on weekends. no showing without cash to buy. would like to have a pleasant buy/sell experience where no ones time is wasted. cash only no test drive without cash to buy.

    Am i setting myself up for more cost in maintenance ? – Or should I roll with it ??

    1. Hi Dan,

      Its a 13 year old car, it needs an inspection to know its current state of needs to be able to answer the question.

      I would never buy a car under those premises, the Seller needs a reality check.

      You should not by a used car and Wonder if its a good buy, you should have it inspected and know it is or isn’t.

      -Justin

  46. Sad to see this still happening up to at least 2009 models.

    How is this not recall worthy? Pretty pathetic that people just “live with it.”
    I guess I’m just jaded, coming from a mk2 vw diesel, where the only recall/service bulletin was for aftermarket fuel lines.

    25 years later and its still going strong.. getting 50+mpg 60/40 hwy/cty.

    The original owner failed to properly maintain her (ie: looks like he replaced a broken window, and when resealing the door membrane, used duct tape instead of a silicone sealant. So .. that led to leaks, which have caused the rocker to rust out.)

    This and a few spots underneath where work had been done, but undercoating was not re applied.. (around fuel/brake/exhaust areas) .. leading to those areas rusting out as well.

    Looking at all cars these days, (VW included) .. I think it might just be wise to spend 6k and get a chassis up paint job.

    They made this car up until 2009 in some countries, so parts should still be a plenty for the next 10-15 years.

    :/

    1. Recalls are about safety items and emissions problems.

      Not for oil leaks.

      If you want to support a company that lied to millions of people about their cars, designed them to grossly pollute the environment go right ahead.

      All the best

      -Justin

  47. I HAVE A 2008 SUBARU. THE OIL PRESSURE SWITCH IS LEAKING, AC BELT HAS A PIECE MISSING, THERMOSTAT LEAKING, COOLANT PASSAGE CROSSOVER LEAKING. I WILL GET IT FIXED AND ONCE IT’S PAID OFF, I WILL SELL IT. THE ODOMETER HAS 98447. I STARTED HAVING PROBLEMS WITHTHE VEHICLE AWHILE AGO. I WOULD NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE

    1. Hi Tammy,

      The belts were scheduled to be done @ 60,000 miles

      The Oil pressure switch for the AVCS is under $30.00

      The coolant cross over O-rings would not be typical, and I highly doubt that’s a real issue

      The thermostat gasket leak would be a under a $100.00 to repair.

      So you have a car that’s 8 years old and needs a few hundred dollars of work and its a POS?

      Thanks for the post

      -Justin

  48. Hey Justin,
    Thanks for the very informative blog and your patience in responding to questions. I have a 2000 Outback sedan that has been diagnosed with a head gasket problem. I have been driving with this problem for the past 2 years by regularly topping up the coolant every day. At this point, I do not want to spend any more money on the car and would just let it run its course before I donate it. Is this a wise course of action or should I stop driving this car immediately? I only use it for commute (10 miles each way). I am also looking a buying a new 2016 Subaru but am worried after reading the posts from the readers on HG problems even in the newer Subarus. My choice would be between the Forester and the Outback, Is one of them more or less susceptible to HG problems ? Many thanks for your feedback.

    1. Hello Murali,

      You really should stop driving and move on it if you know your not going to repair it.

      I am not aware of any head gasket issues with the current platform.

      The Outback and Forester use the same Drivetrain.

      -Justin

  49. in the 1980s to 1990s the 3.0L and the 3.8L ford and mercury engines had head gasket problems , so as you have been saying all along every car mfg. has had problems from time to time . I hope everyone understands it’s not personal that there car failed in one way or another , I know people who have owned multiple Subaru and loved everyone

  50. I’ve got a 1996 legacy outback. I had HG’s done at about 120,000. Now I have 243,000 on the vehicle and it needs another set of HG’s.. Do you use or recomend a certain type or brand gasket?

    1. Hello John,

      Great mileage on the Subie!

      We suggest the Updated Subaru Head Gasket here is a link to purchase it form us.

      Thanks

      -Justin

  51. Great write up.People do look at me funny when i stick the antifreeze with the vom probes, i think i read it in a ford service letter. I pulled the heads off our 2001 outback yesterday, passenger side, cylinder 1 blown on the bottom. Was blowing water out as fast as you put it in. I got this car for free from the original owner when it left her on the road with a broken timing belt. She said she would not trust it anymore, even fixed, and simply bought a new one( money is no issue for her). I replaced the bent valves, new belt and gaskets, 50000 miles ago.Not knowing about gasket problems i bought a set online, based on price, that did not have metal gaskets. Now i get to do it again! I am a motorcycle mechanic and the ej 251 is easier to fix than a goldwing. To all the posters and future readers, DO NOT take ANY shortcuts on this engine, pay more for the right parts, pay the price for a ” real” mechanic as the head torque procedure has to be done right. Remember that the head gaskets are wet all the time so stay up on antifreeze changes and use the dealer stuff (not the head gaskets). We like our car and i can fix it so it costs us hundreds, not thousands, which is nice. In the case of our rust free clean car, i would still pay full price for repairs and drive it till i get tired of it. Still cheaper than a replacement car. All cars break down from time to time, even my Mecedes gets in my pocket and it ONLY has 260000 miles on it. I plan on 300K from my Subaru with normal maint. and will most likely buy another one then. Fix it right and enjoy it, or get mad at it and give it away!!!

  52. Hi Justin

    I have a single mother friend of mine that has a 2008 Legacy that she took to a shop and they told her that the engine needs to be replaced. It runs but has greyish black smoke coming out of the exhaust from what she tells me. I am a diesel mechanic and am not up on cars to much. But its all just nuts and bolt to me. Do you know by chance what could be causing the smoke? Rings, head gasket? My experience has led me to believe more white smoke for a head gasket issue. Am I wrong?

    1. Hey Rick,

      Its tough to say whats causing black and grey colored smoke, have you seen it yet? Typically oil control rings or guides will be white and blue, internal HG issue would be white, and if its to that point where a 2008 has such a blown head gasket its smoking, that’s really hard to believe.

      Is it by chance a legacy GT?

  53. Hi Justin,

    I took the time to read through many of your comments. I have to say, cheers to you for answering back to the same dumb questions every time for the last 10 years. You seem like a really fun guy to grab a beer with, only, I don’t live in or near Seattle anymore.

    Reading your response made me realize that replacing the head gaskets is a small price to pay for the reliability of this car that I don’t plan on selling for at least another 150k if not more. Anyways, my point is, thank you for putting it into perspective, you can pay $1400-1600 for a HG job and get another 100,000 plus miles out of the car, or not do anything and watch an otherwise great vehicle burn up on the side of the road.

    I have chosen a small, independently owned shop that specializes in just Subaru to complete the work for me. He’s given me a fair price and I trust him more than the dealership.

    Thanks for a great Monday afternoon read, and the information.

    2008 Impreza 2.5i

    1. Hello Rachael,

      Thanks for the feedback!

      I don’t think you will regret choosing to repair the Impreza.

      I am awesome fun to have a beer with by the way.

      -Justin

  54. Hi Justin, thank you for the excellent article regarding Subaru head gaskets. One month ago I bought my next door neighbors 2005 Subaru Forester 2.5X, a result of him going to a larger Subaru to accomadate his children and those of his new girlfriend. I did a little research on the particular model through the help of online sites such as yours. I was aware of the HG problems that plagued Subaru’s, so I took it to two mechanics and had them look at it as there was some oily residue in the HG areas. They assured me that the HG’s were not leaking. One month and one thousand miles later, the left HG blew on me. I’m very grateful that it stared leaking coolant to the outside of the engine and not the inside. I was somewhat taken back, but it could have been much worse. I’ve worked a lot on my old cars over the years, but only on one Japanese vehicle, a 98 Suzuki Sidekick. I felt intimidated by the 2.5X motor, but with the help of onliine videos I came to the realization that I could do the head gaskets myself. Money at the moment is an issue, hiring a mechanic to do it was not an option, so I’m polishing up my skills and I’m going to do it myself. Stange thing is, tomorrow I was going to do the complete Timing Belt change, idlers, water pump, tensioner etc. Imagine how I would have felt had I done this, then noticed the leaky HG. So, I’m counting my Blessings right now, it could have been much worse. I would like to thank you for the wonderful points to observe in regards to coolant changes and oil changes, especially the intervals. Thanks again, Mike in Canada

  55. I’ve just purchased a ’98 Subaru Legacy Wagon with 2.2 motor and 200,000 miles. Is there any benefit to re-torque the heads ? Can this help prevent a head gasket failure when other routine maintenance has been done ?

  56. My brother had purchased a 2000 Forester AWD about 8 months ago. There were a lot of people advising against it, because of the overheating issues. As I can tell from the 2000+ comments that I’ve gone thru sporadically and read.
    Well, we have our own shop and have been repairing cars foreign and domestic for more than half a century. My brother did inspect this car top to bottom; front to back. He knew what he was getting into. It is up to me now to do the honors and replace the head gaskets on the car. Let me tell you; after disassembling the engine (without removing engine from car) I am very impressed with this little 2.5! A mechanic can see when an owner takes very good care of their vehicle. With proper care and regular maintenance, this vehicle lasted 190,000+ miles before it’s head gasket change!
    I’m just very surprised it lasted this long with my brother behind the wheel!
    I just want to reiterate what Justin has said as far as regular maintenance.
    Thank you Justin.

  57. Hi Justin,

    Louise from Sydney again.

    So far Subes was going okay, the mechanic had the radiator internally cleaned and pretty much straight after there is a leak coming from a water pump, however, as this was found just before they went on holidays they didn’t have time to repair it. Since then though I have been monitoring the water and filling up if need be. Over the weekend I drove to Tamworth which is about 300km from where I live and not a problem, on the way home I had to pull up about halfway as Sube’s hit the high temperature, but after refilling her water we were able to drive home the last 100km. The last two days however Sube’s is pretty much running hot continually even though I have checked the water and refilled if need be, I can’t even drive 5km before it hits high and when I pull up to check the reservoir bottle is boiling like an overfull kettle. Water, coolant, steam all coming out of the reservoir bottle. Subes is now parked in the driveway until the mechanic returns in a little over a week. Is this a definite sign that the head gaskets are done?

    On a side note, over the weekend I was driving back from Tamworth and had to pull up at the servo to check on Subes and another woman was also pulled up with the bonnet up so I went over to see if she was okay and thanks to you and all of your knowledge that you very generously share with everyone and the advice of my mechanic, I was actually able to help her…..she had no water in the radiator and she had been waiting over an hour for roadside assistance to turn up, she was driving a pretty flash car so after filling up the radiator I did suggest she wait for road side assistance just to make sure….so thanks so much. You are helping people all over the world and I am very grateful.

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Kind regards,

    Louise

    1. Hello Louise,

      That does sound like the HG have been compromised, it’s still subject to confirmation locally, but that is what I suspect is occurring.

      On the other note, it’s great you were able to offer help, and I am glad to provide what information I can as well.

      Thanks

      -Justin

  58. Hi Justin

    I have not read all of the comments for this article, so if this was already addressed I apologize. Anyway, I am wondering if you can outline what driving conditions allow a subaru to come to proper/normal operating temperature? You have mentioned that short trips sometimes do not allow the vehicle/oil to come to proper temperature. How long/fast should one drive to allow the car to come to proper temp? If you know that you’re going out to do a bunch of errands around town, with short trips in between stops, should you let the car warm up in the driveway/parking lot for a few minutes prior to getting on the road? I have a 2007 Outback with just about 87,000 miles on it that doesn’t seem to have any HG issues or excessive oil use issues, so I would like to keep it that way for a while! Thank you

    1. Hi Kate,

      There are so many variables such as outside ambient temperature, on time in between stops, rate of speed and engine load, all that affect engine operating temperature. A good general rule I can say is that anything under about 15-20 minutes of continuous on time with either speeds above 45 MPH, or loads such as hills would probably not allow the oil to get to temperature. Now during the summer months this would take less time, and winter months more time. Also where you live makes a huge difference, AZ in the summer 10 minutes max, Alaska in the Winter, it will never happen.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  59. Outstanding troubleshooting logic. Who would have gone the extra mile about considering electrolytic corrosion through the coolant being a potential issue ? Kudos, my friend.
    2000 Outback w/ 189,000 miles & I intend to get to 300K. I am the 3rd owner-what a GREAT little car-except for the anemic A/C in 100+ degree weather.
    Is Zerex pre mixed Asian spec coolant good for the Subie ? Just had the timing belt & water pump done & had the tech who did it use that particular brand.

  60. Dear Justin,
    Thank you so much for your information and that on the website, I first bought my 1997 Subaru Forester almost 15 years ago and it had 50,000km’s on it. I lived in Sydney for quite some time and then we moved into regional area of NSW and my Sube’s has never missed a beat. Only now after 15 years and over 370,000kms on it have I encountered my first head gasket problem, well my mechanic and I are now going this way as Sube’s is now having significant temperature, radiator, coolant problems after driving up and over mountain ranges and there are quite a few where I live..all good on the way down, but not so good now on the way up, then again, I don’t know any girl who enjoys hill repeats, I know I don’t 🙂 we carry spare water bottles at all times! Your information certainly explains the oil residue in the reservoir bottle, I have printed off your earlier information and will take it with me to my mechanic, not that Im trying to tell him his job, but Im sure it will all help to understand whats going on. From previous posts I am preparing myself for hefty $$$ on the invoice but when it comes to my Sube’s I will find a way to pay. Sube’s was my first ever car, we survived my twenties together going out, heading to the beach, she brought my son home from hospital and kept us both safe during our travels, Sube’s and I laughed, cried and sung our hearts out through my divorce and has remained every trust worthy and reliable while I rebuilt a life for my son and I.
    I am ever so thankful for Sube’s.
    Thank you again for your information and posts and posts from other Subaru drivers.
    We’re off to the mechanics in the morning!

    Thanks again! 🙂

    1. Hello Louise,

      Thanks for the post and the kind words! Hopefully it all goes well and is just a bump on the road.

      -Justin

  61. This is really rad and helpful information. I don’t own a Subaru, but I’m considering getting one. Thanks so much for taking the time to post this.

  62. Hi Justin,
    I was hoping to get your thoughts on something. I purchased a 2010 Legacy used with 100,000 miles on it. It currently has 133,000 on it and it has all of a sudden started overheating (happened twice). There is no apparent sign of HG failure, no smoke, no weeping oil, no oil in the anti-freeze. I have replaced the thermostat and the air filter and after sitting in traffic for over an hour this morning it overheated again. The dealership service dept said they have never seen the HG fail on the 2010 model because of the new gaskets. While I am waiting to hear what they say, does anything come to mind about what this could be? Does it sound like the HG?

    Much appreciated!!

    1. Hi Pat,

      Some 2010 models had an issue with the cooling fans not coming on as they should. You would not have oil in the coolant or the other way around as a test measure for a failed Head gasket but rather a breach in between coolant and combustion, which can only be tested with an exhaust gas analyzer checking for the presence of combustion gasses with in the cooling system.

      I cant say what is wrong without seeing it of course.

      But thats how it needs to be tested.

      -Justin

  63. Hi Justin, thanks for the all the great advice offered. You’re a great ambassador for the brand! My question pertains to the remote control key on my 2006 Forester XS. I’ve had a couple of instances where the key (and my spare key) won’t unlock the vehicle using the remote function. Typically first thing in the morning. I have yet to replace both batteries on both keys but wondered whether this might be a common problem with another cause? Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, Neil

    1. Hi Neil,

      There is a solder joint on the the little circuit board that tends to break on that remote, if you are up to it you may be able to repair it, it could also be a dead battery and the test for that would be to replace the battery.

      -Justin

      1. Thanks for all of the info posted above. I just picked up an 01 Forester with an auto trans. I am a fairly good home mechanic and am not afraid of pulling the motor and swapping out the head gaskets. My question is what else do you recommend replacing while I have the motor out. I’m thinking rear main, front trans seal, possibly oil pan gasket. What are your thoughts? Also is the 11044AA633 HG the recommended one to use. That was posted a while ago and wonder if another upgrade is better.
        Thanks, Ken

        1. Hi Ken,

          We sell the Six star kit with a MLS gasket right here on our website, thats the kit you really want to use.

          Id plan on the seperator plate kit as well, inspect the rear main seal and replace as needed, but if it’s brown in color (updated seal) and not leaking I would leave it alone.

  64. I have just under 53,000 on my 2007 Subaru Forester, and was told I need head gasket replacement and a new timing belt. The dealership wants to charge $3,100 for the head gasket job and $995 for the timing belt (just the part, as labor for both is included in the $3,100).

    I understand that the recommendation to replace the timing belt is based on time, not mileage, but is $995 typical for the part? It seems excessive.

    Additionally, I have read about the issues that pre-2011 Subarus have with the head gaskets, and don’t want to have the dealership just replace them with the same part that will go bad as quickly as the first ones did. I am at the higher end of 52,000 miles driven, but in 8.5 years, that’s not much mileage. How could the gaskets have worn down so quickly? I see that I don’t fall under the power train warranty because it’s been over five years (though under 60,000, which is extra frustrating).

    Is it worth contacting SOA? Should I get additional cost estimates instead of trusting the dealership? Should I just trade in the car? (The dealership gave me an as-is trade-in value of $5,000, but KBB estimates it could be worth as much as $12,000. I’m not sure which way to go here, so any feedback would be much appreciated.

    Thanks!

    1. Hi Dana,

      The price to repair seems excessive but I don’t really know your market. I wouldn’t trade it in, I would repair it and get some use out of it, the dealer is really trying to take advantage of you here, I write about this very thing all the time, its a trap I do not want you to fall into.

      I would run from the dealer, do not pass go or collect $200. I would then find a good independent shop in your area. That’s the best advice I can give you.

      -Justin

  65. Purchased my 2003 outback new and am now on my second set of head gaskets at188k miles. The head gasket problem is not the result of improper maintenance but of bad engine and gasket design and has continued into at least 2008 2.5 engines. I will never purchase another Subaru and have told others as well. This situation should be grounds for a class action. BTW…. Subaru claims no culpability.

    1. Hi John,

      Yes there are era Subaru engines that may develop oil leaks form the HG, but I am not sure that an oil leak well out of warranty is grounds for a class action anything? I will also state that in an era of many car makers ignoring Safety related flaws causing death, ill take the oil leak.

      There is no perfect car and I don’t think the current era platform will have HG issues.

      -Justin

  66. Hi Justin,

    I’m looking into buying a one owner 2004 Subaru Forester X with about 120,000 miles on it. The timing belt, serpentine belts, thermostat, tensioner, have all been changed in the past 6 months. There are no leaks. The owners say they have used an exterior sealant for the head gaskets as a preventative measure.

    Two questions: have you heard of any kind of exterior sealant? And is it likely I will have to change the head gaskets in the the future…or do we only hear about the ones that break down?

    Thanks for your insight,

    Vayu

    1. Hello Vayu,

      There is no external sealant that will correct a HG leak, sorry.

      Other than that, it sounds like a solid car.

      -Justin

      -Jus

  67. I have a 2013 Subaru outback ..I constantly make the trip from St. Petersburg FL to Connecticut. twice now the LOw OIL light has come on. Both times I was 1/2 way back on the 1200 mile x 2= 2400 mi r.t….The dealership contacted headquarters and they want a consumption test every 1200 miles…the car was barely past the initial warranty miles when it happened…(fortunately I paid the extra for 60K) BUT after keeping my M B for 100K I’m concerned. What do you know about this low oil issue??
    Joyce

    1. Hello Joyce,

      Confused as to why the Subaru dealer failed to mention this to you.

      Hope this helps

      -Justin

  68. On a trip home from California the HG on my 2011 Outback 2.5L with 53000 miles blew. Had the car towed to the Subaru dealer in Eugene Oregon. The HG’s were replaced under warranty and the Service Manager assured me that Subaru was using a different replacement part. I love this car and have since 1992 been the owner of 9 other Subies but this is the only one to leave me stranded on the road. Now I’m wondering if I can trust it or should I be possibly looking to trade for a 3.6R outback which I’ve been told doesn’t have the HG problems as the 2.5.

    1. HI Bob,

      We don’t see that to often at that era Subaru.

      The replacement Part number and the ones used form the factory should be the same however.

      -Justin

  69. My wife has a 2004 Impreza Outback (2.5 NA) with 77K miles and she is the original owner.

    A few months ago I noticed a slight smell of burning oil and after looking in the engine compartment I noticed some baked oil on the driver’s side of the cross member. I assumed it was a failing valve cover gasket and made a mental note of it. I just purchased a new valve cover gasket kit for the repair. After I removed the battery and the windshield fluid reservoir I slid my hand under the valve cover and found no leaks. I lifted the car and saw some dry residue of weeping oil at the head/block mating seem. I then found a way to slide my hand between the head and the cross member and it came back with damp oil on it.

    I figured that the engine design and gravity were to blame, but thanks to your excellent explanation of all the contingent factors to this problem I have a much better understanding.

    I currently do not have the finances to have your shop make the repair, nor the time to do it myself at this moment, so I would like to ask some questions about possible ways of holding it off for a year.

    I personally don’t drive the car that often, but I have noticed that the headlights dim when applying the brakes and they will also intermittently dim while driving. I have always kept the battery terminals clean and the battery was replaced last year. There is no acid staining on the hood insulator but it does like to collect on the battery hold down bracket. I will be testing the resistance in the cables and cleaning the grounding points. Would you recommend adding some supplemental ground wires?

    I didn’t notice any coolant leaks or foam in the oil. The reservoir was a little low (but clean) and I have not noticed anything abnormal from the exhaust pipe. I have yet to check the spark plugs though. The coolant is overdue for a change and I will use the Subaru brand with their additive and distilled water. Do you recommend running the engine with just distilled water for 20 minutes to flush the system first? What about using a flushing agent?

    I have been using Amsoil 100% synthetic oil. Should I switch to another oil type? I have heard that synthetics will sometimes have an adverse effect to gaskets.

    Do you have any experience using Dura-Seal Oil Stop Leak, or their Subaru head gasket repair kit? Is it just another snake oil?

    The vehicle is constantly used for short trips and this is inevitable. Since the engine oil is not reaching temperature for a long enough duration and is not allowing the EGR system to function optimally, could a modification be made to increase the fuel burn or decrease the warm up time?

    Different heat range plug?

    Specific spark plug?

    Different plug gap?

    Ignition amplification device?

    I would greatly appreciate any advice you could supply. I am not a customer (yet), but based on what I have read from your website, the morals of your company supersede anything that the stealerships would offer.

    Thanks in advance,
    Jerimy

    1. Hello Jerimy,

      So there really isn’t any stop leak or additive I can suggest, they are all in fact snake oil. On a 2004 Subaru Impreza it may stay just a minor oil leak for a long time, and I would just encourage you to monitor it as long as you still continue to use the Subaru in the ways you have mentioned. If you start using it on long trips I might suggest it would be better to have it repaired prior.

      Changing spark plug heat range would be a mistake. We would use the NGK standard plug for the car.

      I wouldn’t waste my money on Full synthetic oil.

      I wouldn’t use the Subaru Stop leak, I mean additive as it will end up clogging the system the next time it is open to air.

      Premium fuel may prolong the life of the head gasket, but really it needs to have its legs stretched out here and thee to burn away the oil contaminants.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  70. We own a 2007 Forrester. Head gasket blew in June 2014 @ 60k miles. They found another engine repair at the same time spark plugs, etc.Total Cost almost $2,700. We had no idea! We always took the car to the Dealer for every check up oil, tires, etc.

    Then in September 2014, engine light on and it needed a $475 repair and they changed spark plugs again!

    We called Subaru Corp Customer Service to tell them of our repair sagas & they paid for the recent repairs ($475.00) in June & September.

    It’s been horrible putting out thousands to fix a low mileage car which seems to be falling apart at 60k.

    Subaru’s are suppose to be great cars and when you buy one, they’re not suppose to start falling apart at 60k miles!

    We loved our car but now we’re worried it’s a lemon!

    The old Subaru’s had a great reputation & people we knew who had them never had these problems. They kept running for years and years without the owners rebuilding them one repair at a time.

    Now the 2014 have oil problems?

    Whathappened to this Brand?

    1. Hello SJ,

      Sorry to hear you are upset.

      So typically speaking the 2007 Subaru Forester does not “blow a head gasket” This is a term from the 1950’s used when the 1952 Ford would blow a HG climbing a hill and lose all of it’s coolant rendering the car unusable until the car was towed to a service station where it would sit for weeks until the head gasket was replaced.

      The 2007 Subaru Forester can and will develop an oil leak over time, typically which can be monitored over time and again typically closer to the 105k mark where it can be combined with the scheduled timing belt service taking some of the sting out of the cost.

      The spark plugs should have cost you maybe $75.00 at most during the HG repair, the spark plugs are also scheduled to be changed at the 60k interval. The spark plugs should have also carried a 1 year 12,000 mile warranty which is why SOA reimbursed you for the repair and again the Stealer should have never charged you for the repair in the first place.

      Now if your Forester truly blew a HG at 60k the Dealer was probably doing a poor job of servicing it, if it developed an oil leak and they “feared you” into repairs that’s a different story.

      Having never seen the car I can only suggest the things we see day in and day out to be the norm. If the HG were so bad at 6 years they had to have signs at the 5 year mark when it was still under warranty , that should be your gripe, that the Dealer is the Stealer and not representing Subaru very well.

      The single most sever way to use a car is limited driving over a period of time, if you are not changing the oil every 3 months this is something that can and will occur.

      As far as the issues with the new ones, there was an issue with the piston rings which Subaru has addressed and is covering those cars under warranty.

      The brand is strong, they are not perfect but in my opinion they make a safe, reliable vehicle and as the piston ring issue subsides (as it will) they will continue to sell more vehicles. A moderately priced AWD vehicle with good MPG and great crash ratings is tough to beat.

      But at the end of the day your experience with your Subaru will in fact only be as good as who you allow to service it, if you continue to use the dealer your experience will most likely continue to be substandard, this can be and in most cases is true of any brand.

      Glad to hear SOA took care of you on the second repair, the Dealer should have made sure they did on the first.

      -Justin

    1. You bet, I’m looking at 2004 Outbacks right now and this thread has more info in it than everything else I found put together. Can’t believe Justin is still replying on a 2007 thread. You’re the man Justin you’re helping more people than you may realize!!

  71. Update – turns out I didn’t have an engine leak at all. Subaru (new mechanic) said head gasket was dry, as was the valve cover gaskets/oil plate. My leak was actually transmission fluid coming from a hose on the top passenger side of the tranny. He said it may be overfull, so I took home and checked and there was actually NO fluid showing on the stick! Now at another mechanic to see if they can replace the hose. What a mess. At least the engine not leaking oil is good news.

  72. Hi Justin,

    Just perusing your site, I am impressed at how much time you have to respond to all of these posts! I’m a retired Audi certified expert technician, ASE certified master tech with L1. I’d have to agree with you on the Subaru vs. Audi cost comparo, but then Audi is a luxury automobile, as is a Volvo, which is entirely a different class of vehicle from Subaru. Subaru is not classed as luxury, I’m sure you and I can agree Subaru, like Jeep, is in a class of it’s own and can’t exactly be compared to other makes.

    So after retiring from the position of shop foreman at a Puget Sound Audi dealership, I bought myself a nice Subaru Outback, 2007. Of course I knew that it would more then likely need head gaskets replaced. Everyone knows this about Subarus. Subaru has, hands down, the greatest head gasket failure rate, over a long period of time, of any automobile manufacturer on Earth. To make excuses for Subaru is 100% laughable. The only reason that I bought a Subaru, despite this knowledge, is that Subaru offers unparallelled fuel mileage in an AWD platfrom.

    Why so many problems with Audi? They constantly over innovate, 5 valve technology, direct injection, all of these whacky over engineered ideas that they have. They haven’t kept the same engine in any vehicle for more then a few years since the inline 5 junk heap they used to make (now used by Volvo). I would never in a million years buy one of these pieces of garbage. Can’t speak much to Volvo, haven’t much experience. I’d be willing to bet that an AWD Mercedes would put all other to shame, I doubt very much that they have head gasket failures anything like Subarus at all.

    But here is the greater point. My wife drives a Honda. When you look under the hood of the Honda you see essentially the same engine that was there 20-30 years ago. Same with the Subaru. You see, Honda takes a design and improves it over time, making it better and better every years. Audi makes a new design every few years. Subaru takes the same design and does not improve it. Subaru’s head gasket problems are laughable and speak to a terrible level of engineering.

    I expect the head gaskets to fail on any engine that has an aluminum head on a cast iron block, probably around 150,00-200,000 miles. Well beyond the intended length of service by the manufacturer. You’re very very lucky to get to 100,00 miles on any NA 4 cyl Subaru without head gasket problems.

    You’ve picked the correct brand to center your independent repair business around. Subaru head gaskets will single-handedly keep a constant revenue stream heading your way.

    What garbage.

    1. Hi Master Mechanic,

      Thanks for the post. I appreciate your professional input.
      It’s interesting you bring up Mercedes Benz when deciding they could build a better AWD cross over type SUV. Since you are in the area I would suggest maybe heading over to Barrier and talking to the Tech’s there about how often they replace head gaskets to correct oil leaks, the exact same reason they are currently replaced in the 2007 Subaru you own. One of my Techs is a long time friend who came here two years ago from Barrier, the reason he left? To many warranty repairs including HG replacements. It’s not that a Benz isn’t going to have a HG replacement on some models, it’s that your hopefully “pre paying” to not have to pay out of pocket to have them replaced. Mercedes inline, and V6 engines typically would develop oil leaks from the head gaskets and just like a Subaru it would vary with mileage. Mercedes used an MLS type gasket to correct the issue, but even then it still could happen, the ultimate fix was a bead of silicone type sealer placed on the new head gasket, a trick that wouldn’t work on a “boxer” or “h” type engine. I agree the Mercedes builds an excellent car but it’s almost double the cost of the most highly appointed Subaru or Honda cross over and despite the costs can still develop the same type issues.
      The Subaru 2.5l has actually been improved more often than you are aware, but yes for many a HG replacement for oil leaks may still occur. Some improvements were about efficiency, some trying to address current issues, it appears at this point that a 2010-2012 Outback with the EJ2.5l is the best bet to avoid the HG issue, of course as time progresses that could prove to be less true than it appears now.
      Of course there is also the H6 engine which I currently have, it’s averaged 23.8 MPG in Seattle’s commute.
      What I want to know from you however is, if you are trying to advise someone who lives where we do, that Ski’s, hikes and loves the outdoors and also feels they need AWD and are concerned about the safety of the vehicle and the family they transport, what car should they buy?
      You, yourself knowing it may need a HG replacement still went that way, over an Audi you could easily repair or a Volvo or a Mercedes or a Toyota or a Honda.
      I just don’t agree with the idea that one common issue over a long list of issues for other models is somehow worse or laughable. The typical thing for a 2007 Outback is a couple of rear wheel bearings and oil leaks from the Head gaskets. I will put that up against Audi and Volvo and for that matter some other Japanese AWD Vehicles despite the lower total safety ratings. I agree that there is the perception of luxury with the Audi and Volvo over a Subaru but you are paying for it. If it wasn’t for CAFE and stricter tailpipe content rules the 2.2l and first gen 2.5l (95,96) with the composite HG might still be around and we could instead be talking how great those engines are. We could say this for just about every car maker however. Even though I believe Subaru made significant improvements to the last version of the EJ2.5l I also realize that because it’s a “H” engine it may still have a HG issue later in life. The issue at hand however is the H allows for the success of the rest of the platform. If my concern was fuel economy alone I would drive a 1989 Civic crx, traction alone = a Jeep Rubicon, luxury = Bentley, global footprint = Smart Car, performance = Audi R8 (V-10 model)

      I make no more excuses for Subaru than you just did for Audi in your post with this important distinction; I believe in the brand, I am an enthusiast, I have put most of my family and friends in a Subaru, some of those I care about have been in really bad car accidents in a Subaru and are all still with me today, I honestly don’t know if that’s true if it was a different car. We all have things we care about, my big deal is safety and if a car company focuses on that above all else and still competes on price, I will forgive a common issue if it lends itself to safety. I work on Subaru’s, opened a Subaru shop and have hired Subaru enthusiasts because I never wanted to work on garbage, or hire people that thought that what they worked on was, as it almost always comes across in their work. The reason I take the time or better yet make the time is I care.

      Thanks again for posting.

      -Justin

  73. My 2005 Legacy wagon just developed a head gasket leak (that the annual inspection mechanic said was a rack and pinion leak). Good thing I took car to my great mechanic who told me what was really leaking and said not to fix. Hard to complain after 155k miles. I’ll take my chances with one more NE winter and replace next year. Also had a 1997 I replaced with the ’05 after 145k miles.

  74. Hi Justin:
    I also posted this in the oil consumption thread but it may be more relevant here.

    I’ve got an ’09 Forester X, 5 speed, bought it new, changed over to full syn at about 11k miles. I’ve been having the dealer change oil and bringing in my own full syn. Valvoline Synpower for probably the first 30k of synthetic use, then Mobil 1 since then. Consumption was very predictable; about half a quart after 3500 miles (I would top it off) and maybe another half quart up to the 5500-6500 mile change intervals.

    I had an extended warranty, and right as the warranty timed out this April, the dealer found a slight oil seep out of head gaskets and changed them out for me under warranty at 72k miles. In the next 3k miles, it went thru 2 quarts of Mobil 1 5W30. I brought it to the dealer to check out the PCV valve (they said it was fine and would not change it) and check for leaks (none found). I also had the oil changed using their normal Valvoline non-synthetic 5W30 because I’ve read some unflattering stuff about Mobil 1 in Subarus. In 1500 miles since the change it has used about 2/3 of a quart–better but not like my “old engine”. They are monitoring consumption (I am bringing the car in every 700-900 miles when I’m in the neighborhood of the dealer). Actually it used no oil in the first 900 miles, and 2/3 quart in the next 600 miles.

    In some of your prior answers, you mention that a HG replacement can somehow affect the oil control rings. I’m a long time car freak (had probably 40 cars in my 45 years of driving) so I always check oil. I am at a loss as to how a HG change could possibly affect oil control rings. Dealer is willing to do further repair work (tagging onto the original warranty claim) if I start using a quart in 1000 miles–the factory line. I’ll have to deal with it either way and love the car. Will consider different oil (Castrol per your suggestion, maybe a high mileage version of Castrol or Valvoline, maybe 10W30 or 5W40 in the summer and during long trips.)

    Again, I am searching for some explanation as to how a HG replacement could affect oil control rings–the short block just sits there while the heads come off and go back on. Something about bolt torque changing the shape of the cylinder liners? Tiny increase in engine compression causing more pressure? I am assuming they didn’t put a handful of sand into the engine. Engine runs great, gas mileage is great, etc. HG replacement was done with engine out of the car and dealer is highly regarded Subaru-only dealer in the Detroit area.

    Thanks in advance for any insight or theories,
    George

    1. Hello George,

      Sorry to hear about the current issues. Ill do my best to try and explain what can occur, it’s a lot easier if we are both looking at the engine together however. The oil control rings are so fragile and need such precision to work properly that any change in the combustion chamber can affect how they perform. Varnish, debris, change in quench area due to machining the heads are all real possibilities. From there minor changes in geometry are also possible removing the heads and re installing. A great place to start is with an induction service to see if it helps clean the combustion chamber, it sure can’t hurt to try at this point. From there I would try 5w30 blend form Castrol to see if it helps, one thing is for sure Mobil One doesn’t seem to help Oil use.

      -Justin

      1. Justin:

        First, let me commend you for your efforts in answering all these questions! Amazing! I am considering buying a new Subaru Outback in a few years, but all this trouble with the gaskets and oil usage concerns me. I read one of your responses that the new FB25 engine should not have at least the gasket issues. Question: does the new version of the Outback use the FB25 engine? Next, if the FB25 engine should be better, WHY is it better? What is done to it that should solve the gasket (and oil?) issue(s)? Thanks so much.

        1. Hi John,

          As far as a HG issue on the FB time will tell ultimately, but the engine has more surface area for the Head gasket to seal to, uses an MLS gasket from the factory and all of the chemical related issues seem to have been mitigated..

          The head gasket article pertains to the EJ engines only.

          As far as oil use there has been a piston ring change that is supposed to correct the issue, I guess check back in a couple of years and see what the results are.

          -Justin

  75. Jason,
    We just recently got a 1996 Subaru Legacy Outback with 187K miles. We do not know the history of this vehicle. The “check engine” light was on when we got it, and the prior owner stated he drove it for a year with no real issues other than it burning a quart of oil between oil changes. I got the oil changed, tires rotated, and an alignment at Pep Boys. They did not see any codes to be alarmed about and did not report any oil leaks. A couple of days after servicing, the “check engine” light came back on. We also notice a burning smell and some smoke coming from under the hood. I could not easily tell where the smoke was coming from. We are now concerned as to whether it is okay to drive the car or not. I do see some dark coloring on the reservoir of the radiator overflow. Is there any advice you can offer?

    1. Not sure who Jason is?

      But The check engine light and the smoking are most likely not related. But the latter needs to be addressed before you keep driving it. There are so many possibilities its difficult to guess at what could be wrong from here.

      -Justin

      1. Justin,
        Sorry about calling you the wrong name…it was late when I was doing this research as you can see (3:27 am). The light smoking was not apparent until I got the oil changed. Could they have overfilled with too much oil? How much oil does this 1996 Subaru Legacy Outback hold? I don’t have an owner’s manual. Thanks.

  76. I bought a 2002 Legacy L in 2012, with 168k miles on it. It ran OK, and everything seemed fine. That same year I had to replace some part of the transmission, for $1k. For now, nothing unexpected for a used car.

    About a year later I found a folder with the repair history (I am the second owner). The last receipt, from the dealer, dated 1 month before I bought the car, says the car is burning oil and needs HG repair for about $3k. I immediately checked the oil level: it was almost dry! I put only 5k miles on that year (I changed oil at 170k). My mechanic checked the car, and said the problem was minor: fixing it would be $2k, or that I could just the check oil level and add oil when needed. Dealer said the engine should be fixed right away, by them, for now $3.5k.

    The car still runs nice; if anything, it is a little underpowered in 1st gear, which I blame on a bad gas-saving driving habit of mine. I don’t see any white or blue fumes, but I keep adding 1 qt of synthetic high-mileage oil every month or so while I decide what to do.

    Besides this, the eternal wind noise from the front windows, and a not-so-cold AC, the car is perfect. What should I do?

    Thanks!

    1. Hi Lucas,

      If it’s just a minor oil leak, it wouldn’t account for the oil consumption and if you are not seeing 4 quarts of oil on the ground you don’t have a 4 quart leak. Most likely the consumption is not the HG but instead worn oil control rings, valve guides or stem seals. If it went 5k in between oil changes that’s to long and could also account for the oil use, as the longer the oil is in the engine the more diluted it becomes with fuel, which lowers it’s flash point and use increases. Hg do not generally contribute to oil consumption, external oil leaks yes, overheating from a breach internally yes, and external coolant leaks yes.

      So what to do from here?

      Change the oil every 3 months or 3000 miles, monitor the engine for the head gasket leak as long as it’s just a small oil leak, change the head gaskets once its worse than just a small oil leak.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  77. My dads friend (a retired Subaru mechanic of 35 years) came and looked at the car. My problem is the oil separator is leaking he said. Head gaskets are fine (dry in that area), so at 197K, they have obviously been replaced already. Now I am wondering if this oil separator is going to be as big of a job as the head gasket? Is there any type of additive like Lucas stop oil leak that would take care of it… at least for a while. He said it wasn’t a big deal, but I do not like to see smoke coming from under the hood when I stop the car after shutting it off. The oil level stays the same, so obviously a very slow leak, but I don’t like it leaking. lol. Thanks!

  78. Hi Jason,

    First off, this site is a treasure trove of information, I can’t believe that you still respond to comments on a post from so long ago — thank you!

    We have an 02 Forester, bought it used with a warranty, soon followed by a head gasket replacement. Thing is, the engine never ran the same after. There were new ticks and a rougher idle. The car had started to consume oil at a higher rate, but no one could figure out why. A couple of years later, the engine failed. The most affordable option for us now is to put a 2.2L Impreza engine, used with 90K miles on it, to the tune of $2200. It comes with new head gaskets, timing belt, water pump, seals, etc. I am unfamiliar with this engine and am hoping you could share some of your wisdom…Is this a good idea? We do love the car and want to keep it, but I am hesitant as it’s a used engine. The repair shop is a Subaru specialist, and the owner says he’s tested the engine and it’s a good engine.

    Thank you for your advice!

    Katie

    1. Hi Katie,

      I can’t really advocate putting a 2.2l in place of a 2.5l especially if you ever need to be tested for emissions. The 2.2l was a great engine in it’s time, but it’s time has passed. I like the idea of a used 2.5l with all the same repairs better than I like the idea of creating a problem down the road.

      -Justin

  79. Justin,

    I just dropped off Mom’s 2007 Impreza (85k miles) for HG repair. Should I be asking them to install MLS gaskets or will the OEM replacement gaskets keep the car out of the shop for a decent time?

    Many thanks for the education.

    Mark

    1. Hi Mark,

      Most shops have a procedure in place and already know what they are going to use, if they are a good knowledgeable shop that specializes in Subaru most likely they are using a MLS.

      -Justin

  80. I think my question above that I posted on July 20th may have been overlooked, so reposting. I recently purchased a ’00 Outback Limited wagon with 197K miles. It seemed fine when I first looked at it. The owner said it had just got a good bill of health from the repair shop. I looked it over best I could and bought it. I drove it home 59 miles and when I pulled in the driveway (came up a steep drive) and got out, I smelled oil burning and seen smoke coming from the left front tire area. The smell went away quickly and smoke. I haven’t looked close under the hood since I got home, it was getting dark out. Anyway now I am worried it has a leaking head gasket. Hopefully I am not jumping to conclusions. Strange thing was the owner had met me where we made the deal and had just drove the car over 100 miles, some up mountain grades and when she pulled in I was already there. I didn’t smell anything or see any smoke and she said the car ran cool all the way here. Hopefully it is just a valve cover gasket or something. I see no leaks under the car. @ 197K, is it likely the originals have been changed? The timing belt was changed at 180K and she said the PO was a Subaru mechanic. I guess I either need to get to a mechanic or look at it close to see what I can see. I also found out some additional info… some paperwork indicated that last week a mechanic stated that the “oil pan had a small leak” and “axle seals leaking – need to be changed soon”, but not sure how knowledgeable he is. Looking under the car, there appears to have been oil or something leaking on the exhaust directly under the back of the engine, dead center where it turns into the “Y”. I snapped some photos of it. Some people on other Subaru sites said it looked to “central” to be a head gasket leaking. I plan on getting it to a Subaru mechanic soon or a Subaru dealer. Should I try to tighten the oil pan bolts, or would that make the leak worse? Thanks for any info.

    1. Hi Tony,

      It’s really difficult to comment about a leak I cant see, if it’s the left side or drivers side that the smoke is coming from the possibilities are the head gasket, axle seal on the left, the gasket between the front diff and transmission, valve cover gasket, rear cam plug, cam case sealant and I am sure I am neglecting something.

      Without removing the plastic splash pan and than knowing what to look for it’s tough to know what the leak is. It’s also possible its the passenger side inner Cv boot.

      As you eluded to the best course of action is to have it looked at, but it would have been better to do so pre purchase.

      Do not try and tighten the oil pan bolts, it’s silicone sealer and you may very well create a leak if you try.

      -Justin

      1. Thanks for the reply / info! It may have also been smoking from the passenger side, I didn’t walk over there, I was a little frustrated, but it did quickly stop. I do not think there is a splash pan under there anymore as I could see all under the car, even the oil pan was clearly visible. I guess someone got tired of removing it. From looking, there appears to have been oil leaking directly in the center of the car on the exhaust where it comes out at the “Y”, I snapped some photos. It actually looks more like it has went to the passenger side. Not sure if you can click on the link to the pic in photobucket, but here it is. https://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e172/Tennesseestorm/2000%20Subaru%20Outback%20Limited/DSCF0461_zps580e0029.jpg
        I guess I will try to get to a shop next week. I should have had a shop check it myself, but like a fool I didn’t and her mechanic said it was the oil pan leaking, but he may not be knowledgeable on these cars. If it is the head gasket, I guess it will go bye-bye. 🙂 Thanks again!

  81. 05/28/02 Purchased New. Subaru Legacy Outback, 2.5 Liter Base Model, 5 speed manual transmission. All Service performed by Dealer through 2012.

    I just failed the Colorado emissions test, Hydrocarbons 2.2052 with a Limit of 1.2 and Carbon Monoxide 29.08 with a Limit of 15.0. I received a waiver so I don’t have to make the repairs right away. I realize that owning a 12 year old car will require maintenance, but based on the last few years, it’s been running $2k per year. Is it time to trade this one in? I don’t have a mechanic I trust to provide a recommendation or service. The one who has worked on my car the last 2 years is a bit of a hot head and recently “fired” me. Here’s the recent history.

    2011 Around 90,000 – 100,000 miles, significant problems commenced: Oil Pump plugs leaking,
    Oil Pan seap, Oil Leak behind timing cover, Due For new timing belt.

    09/21/11 105,000 Mile Service, Camshaft Timing-Replace Timing Belt and Tensioner, Front Seal, Reseal Neutral and Reverse Transmission Switches, Check Engine Light-Paid $135 to test, Code P0240 Catalytic Converter-Did not replace. TOTAL $1,033

    09/23/11 106,211 Replace Alternator. TOTAL $488

    2012 Needs Steering Rack Boots (torn) plus Alignment

    02/18/13 119,939 For the 1st time, went to a non-Dealer Subaru specialist. Raise Engine. Replaced: 1) right steering rack boot, 2) right rear wheel bearing, 3) both head gaskets (no one ever said they were bad before), thermostat, gaskets, valve cover, clogged idler pulley (reused timing belt and pulleys), flush radiator and replace anti-freeze and oil/filter, 4) Clutch Kit Assembly. Reseal Engine Pump. TOTAL $3,128
    Pending Service: 120,000 Service, Catalytic Converter with front and rear O2 sensors, Front Right Wheel Bearing just starting to go.

    02/18/14 127,071 Returned to same non-Dealer Subaru specialist. 90,000 Mile Service: serviced radiator, transmission fluid, front/rear differential fluids, flushed brake system, charging and starting system, battery, steam-cleaned engine. Engine Tune Up: spark plugs, fuel filter, oil/filter. Replaced Left Front Wheel Bering (They said right side in 02/2013 and when I inquired, they confirmed it was the left side-see 06/30/14 comment). TOTAL $725
    Pending Service: Catalytic Converter with front and rear O2 sensors, P/S Pump starting to leak, left front control arm bushing, drive belt starting to crack, windshield (already replaced 1x). Estimate $2,500-$3,500

    06/30/14 Either the front left wheel bearing they repaired in February 2014 is faulty or the right side is now failing (I can’t figure out which side it is). Estimate $400

    1. Hi Steve,

      At some point every used car will go through a bang and thrash phase, or a period of time where new money is spent as reinvestment to keep the car going for another period of time, some require thousands some hundreds. I don’t generally advise on bailing on the car until it reaches a point where the parts are becoming difficult to obtain or it no longer suits your needs, or lastly if you are unable to afford repairs but can qualify for a car loan on a new car. I constantly advise that once a car is 5 years old you should budget $1500 a year for repairs and maintenance. This includes tires, brakes, etc. components that should come as no surprise need to be replaced.

      A few things I am not clear about is you mentioned at 90k the following “2011 Around 90,000 – 100,000 miles, significant problems commenced: Oil Pump plugs leaking,
      Oil pan seap, Oil Leak behind timing cover, Due For new timing belt.” But you did not indicate if there were repairs made, the next mention is 15k? later for the timing belt which was scheduled maintenance and really can’t be counted as a repair an expense for sure but one that comes every 105k.

      Yes the Dealers are famous for doing the timing belt and ignoring the HG leak, only to advise later it’s leaking and charging full price for both repairs rather than full price for one, and just parts for the other. But it’s also fair to say maybe it wasn’t leaking prior?

      The troubling thing here is you have clearly paid to much for some services done to often, or at least from what I can see on the surface without having techs notes etc. The coolant should have been new with the HG repair and should not have needed servicing 6,000 miles later unless there was some sort of underlying reason such as contamination. We also generally suggest the K service as a huge discount when doing the HG repair, the drive belts should have also been done at the cost of parts and the spark plugs etc. so we can save you some serious forward going ownership costs, and I am sorry you didn’t have that experience and yes it appears that mostly our customers are the only ones who ever do. This is one thing that always drives me a little nuts when reading posts such as yours. Your Ownership experience is only going to be as good as who services it and the relationship the service provider and customer is able to foster, and from the sounds of it the car has been difficult, the fact you were fired as a customer kind of sheds some light on that. I can only imagine the amount of work the car has needed has been frustrating and it’s possible that frustration was passed along to the service provider and maybe he was ill equipped to deal with that?

      The Convertor is the reason it failed the emissions test most likely and it sounds like it has been a known for a while. My General advice is that the car still only has 130 to 140k by now and is half way to where its going, if you don’t repair it an drive it there someone else will, its just how it works. If you don’t trust the car and are tired of trips to the Auto shop, or if the car no longer suits your needs, I guess its time to move on, I hate rendering the advice either way without seeing it for my self. Most likely it the Wheel bearing that has not been replaced yet, almost everyone assumes that because the noise seems the same its the same thing, when in fact generally speaking the noise is similar but also usually the wheel bearing that has not been done yet if for some reason it’s the same bearing hopefully its under warranty..

      So it’s common for a 12 year old car to need multiple cash infusions past a certain point, this is going to be a combination of normal wear and tear, later scheduled maintenance and mechanical repairs from components reaching end of life.

      Your situation is that combined with with some less than stellar service I am afraid.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  82. I just purchased a ’00 Outback Limited wagon with 197K miles. It seemed fine when I first looked at it. The owner said it had just got a good bill of health from the repair shop. I looked it over best I could and bought it. I drove it home 59 miles and when I pulled in the driveway (came up a steep drive) and got out, I smelled oil burning and seen smoke coming from the left front tire area. The smell went away quickly and smoke. I haven’t looked close under the hood since I got home, it was getting dark out. Anyway now I am worried it has a leaking head gasket. Hopefully I am not jumping to conclusions. Strange thing was the owner had met me where we made the deal and had just drove the car over 100 miles, some up mountain grades and when she pulled in I was already there. I didn’t smell anything or see any smoke and she said the car ran cool all the way here. Hopefully it is just a valve cover gasket or something. I see no leaks under the car. @ 197K, is it likely the originals have been changed? The timing belt was changed at 180K and she said the PO was a Subaru mechanic. I guess I either need to get to a mechanic or look at it close to see what I can see. The car is excellent in and out and I thought I got a super deal… now I am worried. Thanks in advance.

    1. I found out some additional info… some paperwork indicated that last week a mechanic stated that the “oil pan had a small leak” and “axle seals leaking – need to be changed soon”, but not sure how knowledgeable he is. Looking under the car, there appears to have been oil or something leaking on the exhaust directly under the back of the engine, dead center where it turns into the “Y”. I snapped some photos of it. Some people on other Subaru sites said it looked to “central” to be a head gasket leaking. I plan on getting it to a Subaru mechanic soon or a Subaru dealer. Thanks for any info on the matter.

  83. Hi Justin,
    First of all how in hades do you find time to answer all these questions? ! I’m not so concerned about the replacement of an HG, I’ve done it twice on my 99 Olds Intrigue within 130k and still love the car. My understanding with an Intrigue is one you replace an HG you can expect to do it every 2 years or so. What gets me is the cost for all these Subarus. I paid $280 each time for my Intrigue at my mechanic’s shop. Is there something special about a Subaru HG? I am going to buy a 2015 Subaru in another month or two but can’t decide between a 2.5 Legacy or 2.5 Forester. Like the gas mileage of the Legacy but like the utility of the Forester so gotta decide which is more important to me. (Will be keeping the Intrigue). Any suggestions and should I expect a $2k bill if the head gasket fails?
    Cordially,
    Bill C

    1. Hi Bill,

      I don’t think you will be dealing with a HG issue with the newer FB series engines. There have been a lot of significant changes that should address the previous issues.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  84. I have 2 Subarus, a 2001 Legacy Wagon and a 2004 Impreza WRX STI. Both cars have been serviced regularly by the dealer.

    The Legacy Wagon has slightly more than 130,000 miles. About every 2 months, the Legacy Wagon is driven approximately 250 miles at 75 mph over a 5 or 6 hour interval. A return trip occurs perhaps a day or 2 later which goes from sea level to over an 8,000 foot mountain pass. My impression is that the radiator fan is that the Legacy Wagon’s fan now runs more than when the car was new. Before recently learning about the head gasket problem, I have attributed that to an aging radiator. There is a little corrosion on the plate holding the battery in the car. In the past few years, on perhaps 3 occasions the car would not crank after a significant amount of driving so the problem shouldn’t have been a dead battery. After the most recent occurrence of that problem, I scoured the battery terminals and cable connectors with a wire brush battery tool and the problem has not reoccurred. The car is using no oil and doesn’t show any mayonaise.

    The WRX STI has about 33,000 miles. The WRX STI battery that has been replaced looks the same as when the car was new.

    I am less than enamored by the service performed by the local Subaru dealer.

    A few years ago after the WRX STI was serviced I noted oil on the garage floor under the rear differential. The plug in the differential was at best finger tight.

    A year ago I paid to have a leaky transmission on the Legacy wagon fixed. It is still leaking oil.

    Consequently, I don’t know who I can trust.

    Recently, while all the struts in the Legacy Wagon were being replaced, I was encouraged to replace the head gaskets. If I authorized the repair I was informed that all the belts would be replaced including the timing belt that had replaced less than 30,000 miles ago.

    Scheduling prevented my authorizing that repair at that time and I decided to consult the Internet.

    Among your recommendations for dealing with a potential head gasket problem are:
    1. a “voltage drop test;” and
    2. an unburned hydrocarbon test on the coolant.

    I can guess that the unburned hydrocarbon test is probably sniffing the coolant reservoir or perhaps the radiator with a smog tester. Since you advise running the vehicle hard before performing the unburned hydrocarbon test, I doubt that the text is performed on the radiator.

    However, I have no idea what constitutes a “voltage drop test.”

    The Legacy Wagon has two cables that leave the battery and go respectively to the starter and to the fuse box.

    What I could guess what constitute a “voltage drop test” might be disabling the ignition, and measuring the voltage difference between the battery and the starter while cranking the engine. However, that is just a guess, and during my life I have made wrong guesses.

    Based upon your comments regarding the skill exhibit by some repair shops I am not comfortable taking either vehicle anywhere and just asking for a “voltage drop test.” If someone performed a test, I would have no idea whether they performed the proper test. If they asked me to explain what constituted a “voltage drop test,” all I could do is shrug my shoulders.

    1. Hi Donald,

      Both test are done for different reasons, the hydrocarbon test is done to spot a failed head gasket that has breached internally. The voltage drop test is done to make sure the battery cable is still cable of allowing for the proper amount of current flow.

      The techs at a Subaru dealer are paid on a flat rate pay plan, they want as much gravy work as possible and don’t, won’t, can’t get involved in real testing. It’s just the business at a Dealership as the public still doesn’t make the dealer pay for it’s track record of poor service.

      Many just think the Dealer is place to go, they are the experts.

      At a good independent, techs are superior technicians, they may not be as fast at replacing parts as the crew at a dealer but will be generally better at performing tests and looking for the root cause, as they have to in order to diagnose something. At a Dealership the trend is your friend if the guy next to found a faulty fuel injector on a 2008 Legacy yesterday, it would stand to reason the same thing could be the issue with the 2009 Legacy in front of you today.

      When have My IT guy come here when I am having a network related issue, many times I also shrug my shoulders, but I have a long standing relationship and I trust them. I don’t know how so many get around needing a service of some type without having a trusted relationship with a service provider.

      The on time for the cooling fans may still be a restricted radiator, you did not indicate how the gasket have failed? External oil leak, external coolant leak or internal failure?

      If they are just leaking some oil the fan question has not been answered.

      -Justin

  85. Justin,

    This forum is absolutely the bee’s knees. I am about to purchase my first (used) Subaru. I live in Colorado and really want the AWD. First off, I agree 100% with you that all cars have their own problems and in the scheme of things a Head Gasket is better than being nickel and dimed. If anyone disagrees then I have a Saturn Vue that likely needs it’s 3rd transmission before 100k that I would love to sell them.

    Anyways, do you mind quickly summarizing which years the head gaskets are questionable for the Outbacks, Foresters, and Imprezas? I tried to read through the thread but couldn’t find a quick summary (the beginning post was confusing to me).

    Thank you!!
    Jeff

  86. Helpful info here–thanks!

    I’m looking for a 4th generation (04-09) Outback with turbo. From some of the research I’ve done it looks like the XT doesn’t suffer from the same high incidence of HG issues. Is that due to a design difference between turbo & non-turbo models, or just a random coincidence?

    1. Hi Wes,

      The turbo models use a MLS type Headgasket from the factory as well as a semi closed deck block with more surface mass. Those are two big reasons they have less issues.

      -Justin

  87. I currently have a ’97 Outback with 182,000m. I bought it in ’07 and I’ve been quite satisfied over nearly seven years now. Purchase price plus all maintenance totals about $9,000 for these seven years, which seems quite reasonable to me. However, the oil leak is getting excessive and is not worth fixing.

    I’m looking at an ’07 Outback now. It’s got 68,000m and had both head gaskets done a year ago at 60,000. They also replaced the complete steering rack assembly due to leaks, all front and rear brake pads, resurfaced the front rotors and replaced the rear rotors, flushed the coolant. It had all the recommended service done at the 60,000m point (all fluids replaced).

    By my layman’s assessment, this car should be ready for 100,000m with no problems. Am I being overly optimistic here?

    1. Hi Jon,

      I see no reason that the car shouldn’t last another 200k, there will be times when it needs some money put into it however. I would still advise you have a prepurchase inspection performed.

      Did you have the 1997 looked at and the estimate was high? That car as well has some life left in it.

      -Justin

      1. Thank you for your response. Of course, I’m expecting to put money into it over the years–part of owning a car. I’m planning to take it to my mechanic, a Subaru specialist, for the inspection this week. If he gives the thumbs up, then I’ll plunge in.

        The ’97 suffers from considerable rust issues at all the typical points (wheel wells, doors) and has various little items that are too pricey to fix–leaky AC (as in no AC), window motor problems, antennae motor problems, grill held on with zip-ties, etc.–and the oil leaks would cost far more than any potential resale value. Even my mechanic, who would make the money off the repairs, recommends against it. Unfortunately, the car runs great! So I’ll probably just keep it for now and my wife and I will be a two car house for the first time ever. When it gets too problematic, it’ll be turned out to pasture.

        However, I was considering dumping a quart of one of those dura-seal type leak repairs in it just to see what happens. At this point, I’ve got nothing to lose.

        Thanks for the great webpage here–this is a terrific source of information!

  88. Dear Justin,

    Thank you so much for this wonderful resource. I have a 2001 Subaru Forester, with 84,000 miles. I bought it from the original owner in 2009 at 56K miles. I’ve been told by two different sources (the dealership, and an independent mechanic) that the head gaskets should be replaced. They aren’t leaking oil, per sé, but oil is “collecting” (there is another oil leak, coming from the base of the oil filter — the O ring — that I’m having fixed tomorrow. Everything else looks works great.

    Estimates to fix the HG range from $2100 (dealership, w/o timing belt), to $2500-$3000 (including timing belt.) Blue Book, the last time I looked, was $4000-ish to $4600, so investing in the head gaskets would have to yield a pretty good return (long life? I bought this car to replace my other 2001 Forester, which was totaled in an accident. It had 148,000 miles, and had NOT needed the head gaskets replaced.)

    Two questions: should I invest in fixing the HG? And, if the O ring leak is fixed, and the HG is only “collecting oil”, would it be safe to drive approx 100 miles, over some reasonable grades, on a hot day? (A friend has expressed interest in buying it, but he lives 100 miles away.)

    Thanks so much!

    Jo

    1. Hi Jo,

      I would like suggest that first of all the “Blue Book” value should have no bearing at all in regards to the decision to repair. Instead consider the replacement cost of the vehicle. If you are in the business of buying and selling cars blue book value is important, if you are merely looking to own a car for a period of time it just doesn’t represent the whole picture.

      If it’s just leaking some oil it should be just fine to drive 100 miles. A Hg leaking oil poses no greater threat than the oil cooler o-ring thats leaking. A minor external oil leak from the HG is not the same as having a “blown HG”.

      Personally I think it’s unwise to get rid of a 2001 Forester with 84k you already own unless your situation has changed or it no longer suits your needs.

      Justin

  89. I am wanting to buy my first subaru from where i work. It is a 2003 Subaru Baja with 117k miles. The head gasket thing has me a little worried though. I have checked its carfax and there is no history of a replaced head gasket. Is there any way to visually see if it has the better head gaskets?

    1. Hello Eduardio,

      A trained eye can tell if it has the Six Star gaskets if that’s what you mean? There is no updated better gasket from Subaru for a 2003 as the update was in 2002 and it would have the updated Subaru gasket from the Factory.

      -Justin

  90. I have 2004 Forester with 135K on it. I was considering trading for a new vehicle about 5 months before my second major service. After the service, I was told everything is good. On my first oil change recently I am told HG is leaking and will take 2200 to fix.I dont see any oil leakage nor temperature change. I was only planning to keep the car until this winter but now I am upset and confused as to what to do. I was going to go for a new 2015 Forester but not sure anymore.

    I want to thank you for this website. It extremely useful and contains invaluable information.

  91. This article makes me happy! just bought a 1999 forester with 115k miles. Head gaskets done and valves replaced 15k ago. bought for $3500CAN. Seems like that work alone is worth at least half that!!

  92. Hi Justin,

    Thank you so much for all of the great Subaru info, it has help educate me a lot. I found out recently that our 2007 Subaru Outback wagon 2.5L H4 SOHC with 45,500 miles has leaking head gaskets and valve cover gaskets.

    With all your experience have you seen both HG and VC leaks at the same time? Our service adviser at the local independent Subaru shop said leaks were seen in the cross member and in the plugs.

    Do you also recommend replacing the plug wires or any belts at the same time?

    We were quoted $2,300 – $2,800 plus another $500 to finish 45K service.

    Any professional advise would be great! Heck have you ever thought about opening a shop in AK? There are plenty of Subbies up North and only one independent shop beside the dealer.

    All the Best
    – Cary

    1. Hello Cary,

      Love to come up to Alaska, would never talk the wife into it though,lol.

      Yes it’s common for the spark plug tube seals or valve covers all to leak, and yes it could be at the same time the spark plug tube seals and valve covers are replaced as part of the HG service at most shops. I would do the spark plug wires and spark plugs at the same time. It’s difficult to comment on prices, but the $500 for the rest of the 45k seems high, but not knowing whats included I could be off with that comment, but typically speaking a 15/45k service is generally an oil change, tire rotation, air filter, brake fluid service and maybe the cabin filter plus an inspection. It should be around $150. Its possible they have some other items they are replacing?

      -Justin

  93. I have a Subaru Legacy 2.5i 2008 and dealer says head gasket needs replacement – after ONLY 51950 miles. $2100 estimate. I am shocked that it gave way so early. I do the dealer recommended changes such as on the last visit it was for belts and power steering flush.

    I don’t see any of the following:
    No engine overheating (cars temperature gauge goes only halfway – however long I drive – and its been that way since day one)
    No signs of oil (admittedly hard to see)
    No white smoke from tail pipes. (only happens a little when car is started each morning).

    How can I be certain that I do need to replace the HG?

    Car is almost 7 years old. Are the AAA approved guys as good as the dealer for this kind of work?

    1. Hello Raju,

      So I can’t speak to the level of repairs made at a AAA shop, but the dealer really should not ever be your first choice.

      Id start with looking for a good independent whop knows Subaru and let them have a look, it may still not be at a point where it needs repairs.

      -Justin

      1. Raju,

        Just to comment, I have an ’06 Outback Sport with 183K. I was told by my Subaru shop almost 2 years (and 40K mi) ago that my HG was going, and to keep an eye on it. Like you, I (still) don’t see any evidence of a HG problem (with the exception of some leaking oil). I don’t know if its luck or what, but the HG is still holding up (much to my mechanic’s surprise). It helps having a mechanic you can trust. Good luck.
        Kenny

  94. HI Justin,
    I own a 2006 2.5 outback I bought new with 52,000 miles, serviced regularly, and always garaged.
    I was told I need HG repair. The car runs great, does not overheat.
    I was told that Subaru head gaskets were defective on these types of vehicles, that it is common. Is this true?
    I did notice a very small amount of some type of leakage on my garage floor on the left side.
    I do feel that the head gaskets should not have failed this soon. Also, they recommend replacing the timing belts at the same time. Is this advisable?
    Thanks a lot,
    Brenda

    1. Hi Brenda,

      So the 2006 2.5I uses the same gasket since mid 2002 all the way up to 2009 in the Outback. In the 2006 model typically it will develop an oil leak that leaks a small amount of oil externally that can typically be monitored for a while before repairs may be needed, having not seen the car I cannot comment 100% if this is what is going on with your Outback.

      I will comment that a car that is only used 6500 miles a year will unfortunately have this happen sooner than a car that is used 15000 miles a year in many cases.

      If the head gaskets are done it would be advisable to also replace the timing belt on a 8 year old vehicle.

      -Justin

  95. I can tell you that I will never buy another Subaru again. I have a 2013 Impreza. My husband has a 2009 Forester and was just told the headgasket on his Forester is going. This bullshit, Subaru has know of this problems for decades now and has done nothing to correct it. It is gravey money in repairs for the dealerships. I have never had a headgasket go in any other car that I have owned. I have had Nissons, Hondas and Toyotas and never had this happen to them.

    1. The 2013 Impreza uses a totally different engine and gasket design, the 2009 Forester uses the same design Subaru has had issues with. The Forester is 5 years old and may still be covered under warranty.

  96. So, I’ve been reading about these blown head gaskets. I’ve spent the last week looking for a good used Subaru so I’ve been researching the brand. It’s been stated here that all brands have some kind of cost of ownership. Well, I have to say that my 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser has 95,000 TROUBLE FREE miles on it. Regularly scheduled oil/fluid changes and a set of brake pads and that’s all I’ve done.
    I like Subarus but I’m getting some serious reservations about a purchase.

    1. Hi Brandon,

      If a head gasket leaks oil externally how is the gasket blown?

      The term Blown head gasket is from the 1950’s and is used to describe when a gasket would fail or “blow” internally and allow for an over heat condition. Most of what happens to the EJ 2.5 post 2005 was external oil leaks. People read the term “head gasket” and go into panic mode, when instead they should understand whats going on, we have Subaru’s that we have monitored oil leaks from the head gaskets for years without making repairs, and we have some that leak much more and need repairs

      The FJ Cruiser has been a pretty good Vehicle, we have lots of Subaru customers that have had the exact same experience with their Subaru, and we have had some that have replaced HG for oil leaks. I bring this up as I am aware of some FJ cruisers having engine front cover oil leaks, and even some with failed rear main seals, most have been under warranty but not all, at the end of the day we are talking about an oil leak in most cases.

      I also don’t think the FB series engines with the increased surface mass and MLS gaskets are going to have “mass” HG issues.

      -Justin

  97. My 2003 Legacy wagon has 78,000 on it and needs HG replaced. I got 3 estimates $2,100, $1,850 and $1,300. All 3 have good reputations in my area. The $2,100 estimate is from my former service provider who is good but always high. The $1,300 bid excludes water pump replacement but includes my cost of replacement parts that are to be provided by me, which I’m sure is saving me money.

    I have ordered from you the HG set, Head bolt set, and thermostat. Do you think I should replace the water pump?

    Also, I have 1 3/4 gallons of 50/50 Subaru Long Life coolant. If that’s not enough is it OK if I top it off with Peak green coolant, which I already have on hand?

    1. Hi Jim,

      I don’t typically suggest mixing the Subaru Long life, but you shouldn’t really be adding that much of the peak so it will be okay, and since you purchased the Six Star gasket you can really use any coolant you want minus Dex cool.

      Just make sure whomever makes the repair that the surfaces are in great shape.

      -Justin

  98. Many thanks! Wish we had a shop like yours around here, but even checking Subi forums, the shops around here (called a couple) are NOT pulling the engine. Thanks again!

  99. Hi Justin,
    WOW. Just found your site, and really glad I did! My Dad had an ’02 Legacy L wagon and when he passed away last year, we got the car for my daughter. Dad didn’t drive it much; only 44K. Recently I’ve started to smell burning oil from under the hood. Had it to an independent shop, but not a Subi specialist the other day and he diagnosed the left head gasket as leaking. The car’s never overheated, and based on your earlier comments, I checked the coolant overflow reservoir and just smelled coolant – though it looked a little dark (but also didn’t see bubbles or oil slick) – no gas/sulfur, etc. No exhaust burning oil/blue smoke. So hopefully this is early. Rather than jumping on repair, shop recommended I call SOA due to the low mileage, and rep suggested he might actually help, but required me to take the car to a (gulp) dealer to document their diagnosis. You’ve suggested that if it’s just external leaks, one can drive for a while. But if it really is a HG issue, I’m inclined to fix now because (1) it stinks (the burning that is) and (2) my daughter will be taking it 500 miles away from here and I don’t want her stuck alone (or taking it on the long trip). My questions, if I may:

    (1) Based on your advice (which makes TOTAL sense), I intend to ask if they pull the engine. If they say no, I’m imagining you’ll say take it elsewhere where they will, right? Both sides, of course. I’m worried as dealer priced HG alone at $1700, the indie shop said $2500 (!)

    (2) Is Subaru HG acceptable in your opinion (I saw another post where you indicate that this will just be the same type that failed; I guess Subaru didn’t make any changes despite these issues), or the Six Star; what if they don’t have that – any others you recommend?

    (3) What else should be done?
    a. Dealer service writer when I called (and you seem to agree) suggested timing belt (even at the low miles, but we’re >> 7yrs).
    b. You said something about TB tensioner?
    c. Water pump?
    d. Other things I should ask about? Should anything be done w/cooling system?
    e. Are the valve cover gaskets done as part of this, anyway?

    (4) Happen to know any good shops in Northern Virginia suburbs of Washington, D.C.? (figured I’d ask)

    MANY thanks! Definitely bookmarking your site, as we’re strongly considering a new Outback for my wife and me to replace an old minivan!

    Paul in VA

    1. Hi Paul,

      In regards to the price difference I would suggest looking at both estimates side by side and looking for differences, I can only assume that the Independent shop has some things included that the Dealer is omitting? Its quite possible the Independent shop has already included items such as the timing belt, tensioner water pump etc. If they are the same than its possible the Independent is just more expensive?

      It is correct that the only way SOA would entertain any participation is for you to take it to the Dealer, that’s a franchise agreement thing. Yes it is okay to monitor a HG that is leaking oil, if it starts to leak coolant it needs to be repaired.

      Ill never give the okay on a repair made in the car, we just see to many dealer repairs leaking a year or two later, this is also the same for some cars repaired at independent shops as well.

      I just don’t know of any shops to send you to, Sorry. I like the Six star gasket and that’s really about it.

      The valve covers have to come off to replace the headgaskets so yes they should be included in any price you have been quoted. It would be my suggestion to replace the timing belt, tensioner idlers, and water pump as part of the repair, hoses based on inspection.

      -Justin

  100. I have a 2006 Forester with 78,000 miles and was just told that the head gaskets are leaking. The dealer added ‘coolant conditioner’ to try to stop the leaking. Is this effective and for how long? I was also told to monitor the the temperature and fluid level in the coolant reservoir. They quoted $2400 replace the head gaskets and timing belt and advised against long trips unless they checked the car out first. Is replacing the head gastkets successful? I was disappointed to read that this problem goes so far back with Subaru.

    1. Hi Karen,

      So head gasket can leak oil, coolant or even fail internally. If its leaking oil, coolant conditioner wont help a thing, so I can only assume it was leaking coolant or coolant and oil.

      “Is replacing the head gaskets successful”

      For many it is, for many it could reoccur, this is based on who makes the repairs and what is used, the Dealer in most cases should be your last alternative. The profit model a Auto Dealer has in place is not in line with your best interests as a consumer. This is my general advice, I cannot speak specifically about your situation as I don’t know the Dealer or the tech working on the car, I have no idea what kind of Independent shops there are around you and if anyone locally to you is using the Six Star Head gasket in lieu of taking out what already didn’t work for you and putting the exact something in hoping for a different result.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  101. Hello Justin,

    I have a 2000 Outback that I bought about 2 months ago with 118K odd miles. The subaru dealer said that there is a small leak on the driver side HG leaking coolant and oil. In the 900 miles I have had it, I took one 600 mile round trip and another 100 mile round trip. After all these miles, I have seem to lost about little less than 1/4th of an inch in the overflow tank. It is $2800 at the dealers around here and $2500 at a local shop for getting the HG fixed. The dealer will be doing all the seals and timing belt, water pump – pretty much everything other than machining the heads. They will be using an “updated” version of the HG that they say does not fail. The car has not over heated and the oil level is static. Temp gauge has never gone past half mark.

    I have a trip to Florida coming up (about 2300 miles round trip) in 2 months time and couple more trips of 400 miles each.

    How quickly do these HGs go to the point of complete failure? I have been reading your blog here and would really greatly appreciate if you can advice me.

    Thanks in advance,

    -Jay

    1. Hello Jay,

      First of all “They will be using an “updated” version of the HG that they say does not fail” is inaccurate, look to the Q and A on this thread to see if you see any 2003 and newer models with complaints of leaks.

      The gasket they will be installing is the 633 gasket the same one used in production post mid year 2002.

      The head gaskets really need to be replaced when they go from leaking oil to leaking coolant. One of the issues is the coolant leak represents a leak further up toward the combustion chamber, what follows is warped heads and an internal failure leading to overheat and being stranded, I would never suggest taking a car in need of a HG repair on any type of a trip, it may work out for you but if it fails on the road you will be in a bad spot to try and resolve it.

      -Justin

  102. Hi Justin!

    My girlfriend is looking into buying a 2002 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport with 134,000 miles on the odometer. It is very clean inside and out, no dings, dents, and only a little bit of rust on the right rear wheel well.

    The private owner wants $5000 for it. But we have a couple questions:

    Is this a solid price? I thought it was, but after learning about the potential HG issue I’m not so sure.

    What should we look for to see if this car is prone to the HG issue?

    Thank-you so much!

    1. Hi Paul,

      Like I tell everyone, if you are concerned about a car you are thinking about buying, you need to pay a pro to have a pre purchase inspection. Let them tell you the overall state of the Car and make you buying decision based on the facts of the Car.

      -Justin

  103. Hi Justin,

    Thanks heaps for this page – its been interesting to read all about why our Liberty head gasket all but fell off!

    I am looking at purchasing a 2005 Subaru Forester 79V XT Luxury MY06 second hand with 150,000k privately,

    Is there anything special I should look out for or be wary of when I go to look at it? I assume its likely it might have HG problems, but how to tell at a cursory glance ?

    Thanks for being genuinely helpful!

    Cheers,
    Pete

    1. Hello Pete,

      The Subaru Forester XT uses a MLS gasket not prone to the same type of external fluid leaks the NA engines have.

      They can go internally in some cases and your nose smelling the coolant overflow bottle for signs of exhaust smells is your best tool.

      -Justin

  104. I have been wrenching for 40 Years. I bought a 2001 Legacy with 60,000 mi. for my kids. What a mistake! 1st had to replace axle shaft, now it looks like a head gasket on left side. It was hard to diagnose. Your info clarified a lot of things. Thanx!!! Well time to go to work on this little darling.

  105. I have a 1995 Legacy wagon with a 2.1 engine. No one ever mentions the 2.1 regarding overheating and head gaskets. But I have the same problem. Intermittent times when the heater goes cold and the temp. gauge pegs to the top. It does not happen in the summer. I think it might not happen when the heater is not used in the winter. I got a tow home last night and drove the last 2 miles on a rough dirt road. It started to overheat on the first rise. Then, just as suddenly, it went to normal – and the heater worked. It’s happened twice in the past two weeks. A bubble caused by a leaky head gasket is one theory. Now I want to upgrade to a 68-2002 Outback but sites like this scare me.

    What’s going on with my 1995? I guess I will re-register and re-insure my 1992 Loyale life-boat that cost $130 on C’list and has been totally reliable if rather primitive compared to a ’95 Legacy Brighton. I’m 75, disabled, live in a rural location and cannot afford to be left stranded with a hot car.

  106. Justin Stobb, how do you do it? I give kudo’s to you for actually replying to all the people who are posting “buy Honda” “Buy Toyota” etc etc.

    This mentality is just terrible.

    I also can’t believe people think that Subaru should warranty a HG on a vehicle that’s 10+ years old with over 100k miles? Amazing.

    Thanks for answering everyone’s questions and I give respect for you because you’re able to do this with all the totally un logical posts on here.

    To all those who are reasonable people NONE of my post applies to you.

  107. Thank you for the great posting. We just ran into the HG problem with our 2002 Outback Wagon during a routine servicing. The information you provided may help explain why we’ve had to replace the battery twice over the last few years and sometimes felt as if the engine was overheating, especially during particularly cold weather. At any rate, we are having the replacement job done and will definitely keep your advice in mind so that we can hopefully get another 175K out of it. Thanks again for the “on the money” advice.

    Ben

  108. Hello. I am in the process of changing vehicles due to my work. Because of mileage I am getting out of my 05 Titan and get into something more fuel friendly and family friendly. I am considering an 04 forester. I got to say the head gasket issue worries me. It will be driven for work possibly around 50 to 100 a day, with most of it being from house to house. It’s utility work for the local gas company here in Wisconsin(snow = 4×4). Lots of starting and stopping (envision a postal truck with about 10 minutes in between stops) The one I’m looking at has 95xxx miles on it and belonged to an employee at the dealer I’m buying it from (chevy). What should I look for gasket wise and will it be up to the demands of lots of starting and stopping over the course of the next several years as well as be a good vehicle for the family. Thanks for the insight. I’ve been studying this thread for hours. You know your stuff.

    Ken.

    1. Hi Ken,

      As far as what to look for, external fluid leaks after removing the splash pan. Any car with 95k should have a Subaru shop perform an inspection prior to buying it, you would never catch me buying a house or a boat without an inspection and you just cant beat a man at his own game in my opinion so allowing a pro to have a look is step one.

      If it checks out than just take good care of it, it will take the use you are describing just fine.

      -Justin

  109. Hi Justin,
    You are THE MAN. Have been a viewer/fan since, well, forever.

    Times are tough and we are looking to replace our 2 clunkers (couldn’t afford the repairs) as we cannot get by w/out a vehicle. On Craigslist an individual is offering a 1999 Forester. The odometer-190,000 rebuilt engine w/30,000 miles. Says “heads done”. All documentation provided. Asking $2999.

    My question: I am more familiar with Subi Outbacks. I am concerned with this Forester and the rebuilt engine and heads. Would the head gasket problem be likely to rear itself up on such a vehicle? We certainly couldn’t afford for that to happen. Does this vehicle sound like it would be free of this problem with the replacements made by its current owner?

    Many thanks and blessings on you for helping so many folks.
    Sharon

    1. Hello Sharon,

      Thanks for the kind words.

      So a 1999 Forester has the same drive train as a 2000 to 2004 Outback. If the engine was done 30k ago and done well it should have plenty of life left to it as a general statement however. Its always about the car and if buying a car for $3000 leaves you no money for the unexpected you need to have it professionally inspected by a Subaru guy prior to buying it. This does not guarantee there wont be any issues but can go a long way in making you aware of it’s current state as well as potential future needs.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Many thanks, Justin. I was planning on having someone look at it but I’m glad you mentioned that he should have Subaru experience. Very important! They are special vehicles, and I mean that in a positive way. It was hard losing two vehicles within months of each other and we certainly are not ready for anything major to happen this soon.

        There is also another seller who has a 2001 Outback for $3450 with gaskets, timing belt, water pump etc. recently done; 92000 miles on it. Would be good to compare the two.

        This website is marvelous and I highly recommend it to anyone even mildly interested in this brand. Best wishes to all,
        Sharon

  110. we purchased a 200 subaru outback limited legacy… with 100,000 miles on it… a month after driving it, it started to back fire and stall. we had the spark plugs, spark wire set, fuel filter, air filter, o2 sensor, catalytic converter/ gasket… oil changed/ fresh anitfreeze, thermostat and seal replaced. i drove it for 2 weeks, and it is almost stalling when i slow down, i put it in neutral and rev the engine and put it back in drive when i have to move…. i have had it in the garage all weekend …. not sure if i need a new timing belt or if its time to get rid of it… please advise… thanks!!

  111. Just got a 2002 outback needs headgasket can i drive it if no overheating? Need a few weeks to come up with the $2400 to have it fixed Thanks

  112. 2009 Outback, 70k miles. Already told by dealership expect gasket replacement soon. Cost? About $2,400.

    Folks, Subaru’s suck. I will never buy another one. I only bought the Outback because the back holds my dogs comfortably.

    I’ll be looking at another car when it’s time to replace this POS.

  113. Hi Justin,

    I have a 1996 Subaru outback and it’s been bullet proof over its life, since I bought it (brand new). Never had any head gasket problems or any other than normal maintenance.

    I love Subaru with all my heart and I have a 2011 Audi a6 and a 2009 Montero sport but I wouldn’t change my Subaru.
    The question I have is because I want to buy a Subaru legacy H6 and I’ve been doing some research on known problems. By the way you talk; I can tell you love Subaru’s as much as I do, so I would like to have your opinion.
    It’s a 2008 Subaru legacy H6 with 44000 miles, 5 speed automatic gearbox and keyless start. I live in Colombia and car prices here are very hi compared to your prices, so I would like to invest my money in the best I can get for its price. (Around 25000 usd).
    Thanks for your time,
    Eduardo.

    1. I love the H6 Legacy models very reliable.

      Its always about the care however and not the thought, what ever car you consider should be inspected if that’s possible.

      -Justin

    2. Hello Eduardio,

      The 2005 to 2006 H^ models are some of the best That Subaru has made save for the possibility of expensive emissions components such as the Convertors being very expensive to replace.

      Thats kind of the thing with the H6 they need less repairs generally speaking but when they need them they are expensive.

      If at all possible Id suggest any car should be inspected

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  114. i thought the drivers side head gasket failure was related to the thermostat positioning and coolants reverse flow type cooling system.

  115. Hi Justin,

    Have you encountered a 2.5 (2002 legacy) that drops in rpm’s when you pull up at a light and begins to run rough unless you pop it into neutral? Is this a fuel pump issue? My mechanic can’t figure it out. I live in Vancover B.C and wondered if you do repairs Saturdays?

    Thank you for being the Subaguru!!

  116. Hello justin,

    There is no way I could read through all this…but I did search and didn’t find an answer to my question so I’ll just ask. I’m looking to purchase a 2009 impreza 2.5 i sedan with just over 90k miles.

    I’m confused about whether the head gasket is an issue for this year and model.

    I had to have head gasket repairs 2 months after purchasing my last subaru (a 1999 legacy outback) and I don’t want to repeat that. I love my subaru when it’s up and running but I can’t face a car payment and repairs in my near future.

    I don’t have many car guys in my life and I want to make a good decision!

    Thanks so much,
    Manda

    1. Hello Manda,

      So the 2009 can over time develop a oil leak externally that may or may not lead to the need for replacement.

      If you want to avoid a repeat of what happened to you with the 1999 you need to have a pre purchase inspection performed by a Tech familiar with Subaru.

      -Justin

  117. Justin,

    In your opinion, what is the least problematic/most reliable of the mid-90’s to early-2000’s engines? And maybe specific models to look for?

  118. Just found out that the left head gaskets on my 07 Forester needs to be replaced. Now I’m glad I bought the IWS warranty because this should be covered. I only have 77,000 miles on it and love the car hope to put 300,000 more miles on it, this will be the car my kids learn how to drive.

    I noticed a burning oil smell and then had the car in at the shop and they noticed the coolant was very low so had them do a leak check and that is when they discovered the left side head gaskets had small leak.

  119. Thank you Justin for so many years of providing supportive information to so many.

    After digesting your website, I just scheduled to have the head gaskets of our 2000 Outback replaced. We bought it new and it has 112,000 miles with 3,000 mile oil changes (standard 5/30 oil) and we’ve done regular scheduled maintenance. It began smelling of burnt oil after longer drives early on but it did not drip oil. More recently it began smelling of burnt coolant. Now it drips coolant on the garage floor and I’ve had to add some coolant to the overflow container. The coolant looks a bit dirty or off color. The oil and oil level has been fine but I’ve only been paying close attention for the last couple months.

    We have been considering trading up to a new Outback but given the decent overall shape of the car and the likely penalty of selling it with the HG issue we decided to fix it and keep in another couple years.

    We live in Wenatchee (on the east side of the Cascade Mountains) and plan to have the HGs replaced by a local Subaru independent auto shop (H & D Automotive). They’ve been fairly priced and very helpful in the several years that we’ve taken the car to them. The mechanic says they will pull the engine out of the car and replace the HG with Subaru O.E. gaskets but will use other non-O.E. products elsewhere. Cost estimate is $1600 to 1800. Have you heard anything good or not-so-good about H & D, and is our plan reasonable in your experience? Thanks, Rich

  120. I’ve been shopping for an update on my one-owner ’94 Legacy wagon, which boasts 201K, still no oil consumption, leaks, or HG issues. I love it, but given it’s longevity, decided to upgrade to an automatic, leather heated seats, and other bells and whistles the newer models offer.
    Found a 2000 Outback with 134K for $5000. It drove out nice and was unusually clean. Thank God I took it to my trusted (for 20 yrs) mechanic before shelling out the cash. For $48 I learned it needs about $2,150 in repairs because it has a HG leak a diff seal leak, and worn-out rear brake pads. I told my man it is the best $48 I ever spent!

    Then I blundered into your blog site and am very impressed by your thoroughness and patience with so many “innocent” consumers, mostly disappointed with Subaru. But I hear you–vehicles require maintenance and Subaru is head and shoulders above so many others, despite HG and timing belt issues.

    What I want to add to the mix is that most drivers I observe are insensitive to their vehicles. Start from cold and gun it, run flat out with little thought for the small displacement 4-cylinder and how hard it has to work. I live about 3 miles from the freeway entrance, but if starting out on a freeway trip, I “know” my drive train is not ready for 75mph even after 3 miles and I stay in the right lane and go maybe 60-65 for a few miles, gradually increase speed, and set the cruise at 73mph. Rarely faster. Not saying that’s why I have no leaks, oil consumption, or HG problems, but maybe “mechanical sensitivity” contributes. I hear that modern engines don’t need to “warm up” (maybe mfrs are encouraging new car sales), but even with a heated garage, I give it at least a little time, just like me when I first wake up (I’m 78 years old and start slow). Or maybe I’m just lucky.

    Anyway, I’m no mechanic, but second your motion that the best way to get maximum value on an otherwise good vehicle is to maintain it, pay the repairs as needed, and take what comfort one can in knowing the belt or heads or whatever are at least renewed. Those with later models who love their Subarus should listen to you: Bite the bullet, pay the price, and keep the car they love. There’s no free lunch, and the inherent winter safety of AWD is important here in Montana. Thanks for your many insights.

    1. Lynx,

      Just wanted to pass on a friendly message and let you know of your great advice you just posted. I do the same thing to my 99 Forester by starting out slow on the interstate (I’m about the same distance as you from my house) and take it slow for a few miles. I see nothing but heavy footed drivers anymore be it at a stop light or interstate. There is no mystery why there are so many vehicle problems out there. You are right 100% that’s why you don’t have any problems with your Subaru, because you go the extra mile to ensure your car is not abused. Some people you cannot convince.
      I just spent 2200 on a long list of maintenance on my Forester (HG, TB,WP, new radiator, idlers,seals,clutch plate,pilot bearing, oil sep plate) and these were either previous owner neglect or design defects as in the case of the HG but with only 110k on the clock I can now have peace of mind knowing it will provide me with many more years of service.

  121. Hello,

    Thanks for all the words of wisdom.

    Have a question regarding a 2005 Outback XT – 2.5 Liter Turbocharged All Wheel Drive

    It is one we are looking to purchase and when we asked the seller if the HG has every been an issue, or replaced, he said “the turbos never had HG issues, google it.” Now, obviously ANY car could potentially have a HG go out but he was referring to the fact that the ” Subaru HG issue” as we all know it to be is not an issue with this turbo engine.

    Thoughts? Is he correct?

    1. Hello Nate,

      Any car can develop a HG issue yes. Its correct to say that the turbo engines don’t have the failure rate that some N/A engines have, but any car should have a professional inspection to help rule out the possibility that the car you are buying might be in need of any type of repair soon, not just the HG.

      Service records are a good idea to have and history on the Turbo as well.

      -Justin

  122. Justin, great site, been reading it for the last few hours, thanks for the info. Somewhere you said the turbos have few HG issues. I just had my 2004 WRX (127,000 miles original owner) oil/ filter changed at the Sub dealer, while there they suggested a carbon induction clean out service. Car was very responsive after this and I was happy to spend the money for the service.
    Next day while stopped for a light, I notice an “oily” rag smell coming through the air vents (no a/c on), goes away when moving, comes back while stopped. I thought it was just some spilled oil and it would eventually burn off. After a couple of weeks, smell is still there so I bring it back to the dealer, they put it up on the lift and show me oil coming down the passenger side from the HG and starting to show on the driver side. was not a gusher but you can see it. They gave me a ballpark price of $1700.00, engine removed, both sides done and all seals replaced also(Subaru’s “kit”). They were actually doing a Baja that day for HG and the engine WAS on the stand. Car is running fine right now, no overheating issues or misfires, can I watch and wait on this (I do not beat on this car, still have the original clutch for example) Have you ever heard of the solvent in the induction cleaner service eating the seals of a head gasket? to much of a coincidence for me I guess. Changed oil regularly, coolant, T belt, idlers. comparatively speaking, low cost of ownership for the years that I have it. Trouble is, not a lot of indie Subaru repair shops in FL. I will say this particular dealership is more trusted than the one I had in CT.

    1. Hello Richard,

      Have not seen to may Turbo engines develop external leaks, some will fail internally usually due to an overheat situation.

      Id like to suggest that the leak may actually be somewhere else and is being mistaken for an external HG leak such as the oil cooler o-ring or Valve cover gaskets or rear cam plugs.

      It’s tough to say for sure without seeing it but I just don’t see to many MLS gaskets leak externally and I am basing my thoughts on the norm.

      Fuel system services shouldn’t really create a HG issue, but I suppose if one was imminent already it could push it off the cliff if you will.

      Justin

  123. Hi Justin, I posted earlier (in the wrong thread!) about my 2003 Outback with a blown head gasket (I got stranded).

    The thing is repaired (I suggested the guy get gaskets from you but he used a Felpro kit instead) so we went back over to get it. Just drove back home and got 28 MPG on the almost 300 mile trip (temps dropped to single digits for the last 100 miles). I have three more quick questions: The tech used NAPA coolant — for this generation of the 4 cylinder engine, is that OK or should I switch out for the Subaru coolant? Second, he replaced the plugs (I am not sure what brand he used) – it ran very well but I wondered if I should make sure they are NGK (the OEM plugs people seem to recommend); third, all belts were replaced but when I first started it it seemed a bit noisier in the belt/pulley area — anything I should be concerned about or keep an eye on?

    Thanks again for your original answers — it helped me decided what to do. We are going to keep the car for a few months and see how we do.

    1. Hello Richard,

      I am really conflicted on how to answer you, par of me wants to tell you that I am sorry to hear they were used, mostly because we see them fail in a year in many cases, but I am also glad to hear the repair was a success. The Napa brand coolant is just fine, The spark plugs should be NGK.

      Hard to comment about a noise I cant hear, is the noise a belt type noise?

      -Justin

      1. It just sounds like the belt area has more noise than before — almost like one of the hubs/shafts turning are noisier – he used GATES belts, BTW. I will keep an eye/ear on it — if it’s a continuing thing, I might even record it and see if I can’t attach it or send it along… I want to be optimistic about the gaskets… I am going to change the radiator cap myself (he left the original one in place) just in case that was part of the original problem. I did look at the original gaskets (but didn’t take a picture or keep them) — there was a small shiny path through the black of the rest of the gasket right into Cylinder #3 — that was the misfire location. Be optimistic for me, OK? Ha ha.

  124. I am in a situation my 2003 Impreza Outback, with 199,000 miles where I most likely will have a low mileage used engine shipped into a good Japanese Shop in Fife. (Sorry, I didn’t know about this shop until just a few days ago.) I made a very big mistake. My mechanic that does things like my Struts, Brakes, Axle and CV work told me that the 2.5 SOHC was a Non-Interference model. It is my car and I should have check online for myself. Wednesday, I was out doing my Appraisal Field work in Skyway, and at about 20 Mph, I thought that I ran over something. The car was to go over for Front Struts, and a dual core all aluminum radiator, later on in the day. I looked behind me to see what I had ran over. Nothing. Then I saw my dashlights on. Tried to restart the car, no crank, but there was electrical. I started to think that it was the original timing belt. I had the kit at home, and was going to do the repair when it broke. Got the car down to Fife, mechanic says that it is an Interference Engine. Oh Boy. They got a look at it yesterday morning, and said that the belt did break, and it broke the Crankshaft Sensor, and the timing belt cover. They wanted to repair that, so they could find out if the valves were bent. I told the owner that if there was internal damage, I would get a used engine to them. Can’t justify major repairs on an engine with that kind of mileage. Got one lined up, with 70K miles ($1,300 shipped). I will most likely have them replace the head gaskets with the improved ones while the replacement engine is on the pallet. I have owned the car since May of 2005 (18k, 5 speed, $3,000 under book), and it started to leak oil less than 2 years later. One thing that I have learned over the years is that 5W oil will not properly protest the engine, and that using 10-30W will properly protect it. Trouble is, there are laws that shops are under, and they can’t use heavier that 5W. Also add Lucas Stop Leak additive after an oil change will help to keep the gaskets from drying out from the heat, and lengthen the life. I buy almost all of my own parts, and have for over 30 years. Since my 2003 has drums in the back, I have EBC Sport rotors (Dimpled and Slotted), and high quality Semi-Metallic pads on the front. Ceramic pads make keep your wheels cleaner, but for passenger cars, they do not stop the car nearly as well. I don’t turn my rotors. Don’t need to. You can save a lot of money are parts on EBay, but you must know what you are doing in regards to brands. I look at it this way: Since I can save up to 50% on Ebay, I will get the best parts available, especially when it is for Brakes, Suspension, and Tires. With online resources, you can make you car safer. The sticking point is the shop that you use. Will they let you buy your own parts? Some will, it they are good quality, and meet OEM standards. Even if you are not that knowledgeable, or as ambitious as I am, at least find out when important maintenance items on your model need attention.

    1. Hello Scott,

      I guess one lesson to learn is never wait for something to break before you repair it.

      Yes Subaru has not made a non interference engine since the mid nineties, I am not aware of a Low mileage 2.5l JDM N/A engine being available for the 2003 Impreza.

      What is available is a 2.0l and that would be the wrong direction to go, it will be an anomaly of expense after expense with limited parts support.

      There is no law stating 10w oil cant be used in place of 5w oil, not sure where you may be getting that from.

      I understand the concept of trying to save some money but typically in the long run it bites you, such as in the case of bad advice from a shop that was used that was not a Subaru Expert resulting in a damaged engine.

      -Justin

  125. HI Justin,

    I want to thank you for offering your time for all of us. I just wanted to know, when it comes to playing it safe with head gaskets, on Monday my wife and I will be choosing between 2 2005 Suabrus. Both will have new timing belts, one is 74k miles and the other is 85k.

    What should we ask them when it comes to finding out if the recall/replacement (if it were needed) were installed and, if nothing has been done, what ‘warning signs’ / preventative measures can we take to ensure we don’t get hit with a $2,000 pie in the face?

    Thank you.

    1. Hello Joel,

      You would want to have a good shop perform a pre purchase inspection, there is no other way of trying to avoid the dread of buying a used car and being hit with big expenses.

      I am not sure which recall in 2005 you are referring to but any and all recall work will show up if performed on a Car fax type report. There is no recall for HG in 2005

      -Justin

  126. Hi Justin,

    My ’97 Legacy GT started having overheating problems starting about a month ago. After replacing 2 thermostats, removing and inspecting the water pump, and adding Subaru coolant conditioner, overheating still persisted. It was only overheated severely twice, and every time since was caught before the water temp gauge moved beyond halfway. After removing the pump and re-installing it with a new gasket, the car behaved normally for about a day, then began acting up again. The motor is now out of the car, with both heads removed, and the condition of the head gaskets look exactly the same as that in the first picture of the failed first gen gasket. Upon visual inspection, the heads and block both appear to be unwarped and uncracked, but the techs at Napa advised me to take the heads in to a shop to be inspected for cracks and warping.

    Should I take their advice and take it in to be professionally inspected before I reassemble the engine with new gaskets?

    Also, how important is it to use new head bolts? I have heard that they should not be re-used, but how true is that?

    Thanks,
    Cole

    1. Hello Cole,

      Yes the heads need to be checked to see if they are flat, if they are warped (the allowance is 2 thousands of an inch) or you cant refinish them properly then they would need to be machined.

      -Justin

  127. I”m about to buy a 2006 subaru outback wagon. Its got the 2.5i 4cyl. I took it for a test drive and i loved it. Its a smooth ride and it seemed to handle better on the snowy roads than the forester I used after.

    The 06 Outback doesnt have a report of HG replacement but it is inspected by the subaru dealer im getting it from. 11,700.

    The 03 Forester has had HG replaced but the engine sounds louder and a little rougher than the outback. And i thought i heard some ticking in the engine. 9,000$

    Did i make the right choice and will I expect severe issues? I had a 98 outback which i totalted but i loved that little thing. only owned it a year so no experience.

    1. Hello Joshua,

      You need to have an independent Pre Purchase inspection done on either or both cars to help device which is the best value, if the HG on the 2006 were just seaping out a bit of oil do you think it would show up on the Dealers inspection, and if it did would you want to buy it?

      The Forester is going to be much loader than the Outback especially from the drivers seat. The 2006 Outback would have quieter valve train as well.

      -Justin

  128. Hello Justin:
    I have a 2008 2.5i PZEV Outback with 98,000 miles. At my most recent service last week, the dealer repair personnel say it is developing a head gasket leak.The fix would be $2100. I’ve maintained it in accordance with the Subaru maintenance guide by the dealer. My wife (who mostly drives the Outback) told me she occasionally hears a “noise” from the front left side of the car from time to time. I also asked the dealer repair folks to investigate this intermittent noise. After their inspection, they told me the noise was from a left side differential bearing. Replacing the bearing alone required removing the transmission and that would cost more than simply replacing the entire transmission- which would cost $4200. ( lots of labor in this effort)
    We like the car but were stunned. I can deal with the head gasket finding- it isn’t a big surprise and the quoted cost is in line with what others have mentioned. But replacing a transmission ? I’m a bit uncomfortable with the thought of doing all that work on a 6 year old car- although it does appear to be otherwise in good shape.
    I guess my thought is the transmission is such a fundamental part of the car- is taking it out and replacing it a big warning sign? Is this something which isn’t done often and likely to start us on a slow downhill slide of increasing repairs.
    Have other folks had differential bearing problems at around 100,000 miles? And is a transmission replacement the only thing which is really likely to solve the problem?
    Thanks for your thoughts,
    Bob

    1. Hello Bob,

      Thats never easy to hear when there are two major issues at once.

      Ill try to answer the best I can. So replacing any or all of the bearings in the front differential would never add up to $4200.00 The issue at hand is that the Techs at the Dealer do not want to make a bearing repair as they are most likely not qualified to do so and most likely way out of their comfort zone.. The Dealer is the last place you want to have a major repair done. I understand that in some parts of the country there are limited options.

      Puzzling to me is that typically a differential bearing noise is not intermittent and this is also very low mileage for that type of a repair. I think a second opinion is in order.

      Head gaskets can develop oil leaks years ahead of actually needing to be replaced, what you need is someone you can trust to monitor it for you and advise to when they need to be replaced.

      You mentioned it was maintained based on the Dealers suggestions, would you please post back with the frequency of oil changes and how often the Gear oil in the Differential has been changed. Its good for others to be able to see those intervals.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  129. HI Justin,
    My wife took our 2006 Forester in for an oil change and the dealer put the fear of God in her saying that the master seal needed replacing asap and probably should do timing belt too. they said that both head gaskets were leaking oil badly. all repairs were estimate to be about $4000.

    I took the car in for a second opinion and they did not find one leak anywhere on the car. Even the skid plate was clean. The maintenance shop said that a common sign of this would be engine overheating which would lead to damaging the gaskets. I explained that the car runs fine. Also, I explained that the dealer said they saw the damaged seal when taking off the oil pan which was somewhat baffling to the maintenance shop as they were not sure why the pan was removed during an oil change.

    Anyway, not sure who to believe or that just because this is a 2006 Subaru that actually has the problem with the gasket.

    thanks,
    Scott

    1. Hello Scott,

      There is no such thing as a master seal? The independent shop might be over their head, as a 2006 SOHC would leak fluid externally.

      One main issue you are having is terminology.

      Its the “Splash pan” was removed not “oil pan” The car does not have a “Skid plate” it has a “splash pan” that must be removed to inspect for external fluid leaks from the head gaskets which I will venture to guess was not performed?

      Option C and your next step is looking for a good independent that knows the car.

      -Justin

  130. Hi Justin

    Do you have the proper or exact drive cycle for 99 Legacy SUS 2.5L AT? I see a few different versions online and not sure if they are all good for my car. After clearing P0440 without repair, EGR system and Oxygen Sensor are not ready.

    Thank you for your assistance.

    Regards,

    Joe

  131. My wife has a 2002 Outback H6-3.0 purchased new that we’ve been told by the dealer needs a new head gasket because of the oil leak despite the 62,006 miles on the car. As the last three cars we’ve purchased have been new ones from that dealer, we’re hoping that Subaru will take care of this. Is there any record of excessive HG failures with this engine?

    1. Hello Leo,

      No but a low mileage older car is going to be much more susceptible to external oil leaks, I would be surprised to ever see a H6 engine leaking so much oil out the head gaskets they need to be done, that’s not the norm, We see all to often the dealer or general repair shop suggest head gaskets when its just the timing chain cover that needs to be resealed that’s the common leak.

      Curious to know if the car has had 4 oil changes a year?

      -Justin

  132. Hi Justin;

    Have been following your web site for years – GREAT ADVISE!I have noticed a bulletin at the dealer stating the timing belt should be changed every 103,000 miles or 9yrs. I have a 2005 outback with only 56,000 miles and no gasket issues yet. I understand that parts wear out over time but do I really need to get it replaced? If I were to do so wouldn’t I want to go ahead and replace the water pump and gaskets too? This would of course be done by your shop.I love the car but worry about spending that kind of money so soon. I won’t have over a 100,000 miles until 5yrs or more.

    Thanks Rolf

    1. Hello Rolf,

      So the belt is technically due every 105k or 7 years assuming, I have seen the time be adjusted out to 9 years as well. I understand the hesitation to do it when the mileage is so low, the problem with not doing it based on time is trying to figure out when will you do it? We can always remove one cover and take a peak for cracks and glazing but that won’t really evaluate stretch, which is the very reason for doing it on a schedule, not just to prevent breakage but to maintain proper cam shaft timing.

      The water pump, idlers and tensioner should all be done as well as well as coolant service, thermostat and maybe the acc drive belts if they show any signs of cracking or wear.

      Hope that helps

      -Justin

  133. Very informative site, Justin. Thanks for doing this!
    I have a 2007 Legacy that just had a head gasket repaired – $3,300 (after a $200 “discount”, $2000 labor and $1300 parts)) at the dealership where I purchased the car (suburban Detroit). My questions are:

    1. You mentioned you aren’t fond of dealership repairs. Why? If I had the car repaired elsewhere (and I don’t know of anyone in my area qualified to do so), wouldn’t I have less leverage with SOA when I have a complaint? What alternatives do I have to dealership repairs?

    2. After reading many of the posts here, it seems to me that I was really taken to the cleaners by my dealer. $3,300 to me is a near fatal blow. What would you suggest a reasonable price should have been?

    3. You have mentioned writing to SOA, and I think I would like to do so, but a friend of mine counseled me to work with the dealer first. Do you have any reason why you think I should skip the dealer and go straight to SOA? Would you be able to post an address for SOA?

    Thanks!

    1. Hello Bill,

      Post HG repair you don’t have much leverage.

      I could write a book about how the industry functions and maybe there would be some better insight to the profit machine that is a Automotive Dealership, maybe I will some day but in reality I doubt it would sell well as no one really cares. Its difficult to explain all of the in and outs and pitfalls for a consumer choosing a dealership as a repair center not understanding they have merely been successfully marketed to by the manufacture and group of dealerships in a way that makes it seem like somehow the dealer is superior than the independent, when in all actuality for repairs its just the opposite.

      While there are always going to be exceptions the pay structure at a dealership is counter intuitive to quality repairs, it instead only rewards how fast and how much work is done. Because Auto repair is just that “a repair” the quality is only ever going to be as good as the owner of the business, the owner of a dealership is so detached from the service department its always and will always be deemed as “the necessary evil” of the entire operation, in recent years whats known as fixed operations, (parts, service, detail) were seen as a way through the great recession, now that its over the service department is again not much of a concern to most owners, ad to that most Dealerships are just big corporations hiding behind a persons name.

      I have talked about this many time on this site, mostly to owners that came here after their repair only lasted a year, I truly hope yours lasts longer than that. I will say it again, the dealership regardless of make and model is almost always going to cost more while delivering the least amount of value per dollar spent. As far as price, I am just not able to provide prices unless you are a local customer to us and even then its a bad idea to just post prices without explaining what we do as me clients will just keep calling around until they have the lowest price without understanding why someone else’s price is less, I have no idea what the going rate for labor is where you live, how much the average overhead is, what is the cost of parts, fluids and labor are, how much competition is there for this repair, who is considered the expert in the area and how much do they charge and just don’t have the time to conduct the research.

      A Repair is a service, you can obtain three bids to have a deck replaced at your house and they could vary greatly as each will have variables, the exact same thing is true about a repair to your car. For $3300 I cant imagine the only thing that was done was head gaskets, but without reviewing your paperwork and looking at the breakdown doesn’t of the serviced rendered I have no idea what was done and if it was fair or reasonable. There may have been many items done in conjunction with the HG replacements that drove up the overall cost, sometimes this is money well spent on items such as a timing belt, and idlers, sometimes its that they charged a lot for a basic HG replacement.

      At this point you can maybe call SOA and let them know of your grievance, they may credit back as much as $500, but as far as leverage with anyone if your unhappy, at some point in time you need to understand this is your car just like a year after you buy a TV it is your TV.

      As far as post a a address to SOA, that wouldn’t be appropriate for me to be involved in, SOA and I are not friends, I have no leverage, I am just a simple shop owner who also tries to help out the greater community of Subaru owners regardless of where they reside.

      Hindsight is always tough and never 20/20, not knowing the shops in your area its hard to say if you could have done anything different, maybe that’s just the going rate where you live?

      I do however encourage you to always try and establish a relationship with an independent shop regardless of what you drive, your ownership experience will only ever be as good as who services the car for you.

      Hope that helps answer some of your questions.

      -Justin

  134. Incredible article! Thanks!!!

    Ive got an ’06 Baja. I have yet to see a leak but when I pull into the garage I can smell antifreeze. there are 88,000 miles on the clock and I really like this car. I agree that no matter what car I get there are going to be issues.
    I talked to the Subaru dealer and was told that they have to pull the engine to replace the HG’s. When they do I was told I might as well replace the water pump, the cerp belt, a gear in the back of the engine(cant remember which one) and something else.
    was quoted $3600.

    does this sound correct or am I being hoodwinked.

    would SOA help with any of these repairs?

    also I was told to try subaru’s coolant conditioner which I hear is stop leak. Any ideas how long that would last. I also noticed head gasket leak repair which is a permanant fix according to the label on the bottle. but you have to drain the coolant and flush the engine with water.
    any experience with these options?

    1. The Price seems high, but I just don’t know the market place where you reside.

      You can always call SOA but the car is well out of any warranty and most likely the most they would offer is $500.00 towards repairs or purchase of a car and I am never fond of the Dealer repairs.

      I just don’t support the idea of using Subaru Stop leak it will just cost more in the long run form our experience.

      -Justin

  135. Great website. 03 Legacy L Wagon with 245,000 miles. I like my mechanic here in WI (independant) but if I was in Seatle I would think about trying you just based on this website.

    And all you whiners – get a life. This website is super informative and a great service.

      1. Justin,

        Looking at a ’98 Legacy GT for my son with 136K. Can an experience (or inexperienced) mechanical visually tell if the head gasket has been replaced?

        Thanks!

          1. You know I had the head gasket job done at 132,000 miles, both sides. Now I am almost to 150,000 miles, a year and a half later and damn if I am not back where I was 2 years ago, looking at another couple thousand dollars. 2002 Outback manual shift, same shop did a friend’s Baja which is still good, I thought I would be good to 300k. Cost of another head gasket repair now exceeds the value of the car. Much as I like it, this will be my last Subaru.

          2. Sorry to hear that Joe,

            There are many reasons a repair may not last as long as we would like.

            If you are ready to give up on the car by all means do so, and no one would blame you, but buying something else will cost much more than a repair. At the end of the day the value of what you drive matters not. I only bring it up as you mentioned the cost of the repair VS the value as a rationale.

            -Justin

    1. Hi David,

      I’m also in Wisconsin and curious as to who your mechanic is. I’ve had 5 Subarus since ’96 (currently ’11 &’13 Outbacks) and do most work myself but have gone to the dealer for major service (timing belt, head gaskets, etc)

      Thanks

  136. My 2005 Subaru Outback has developed an oil leak in both head gaskets at 126,000km (78,000 miles). From reading the above posts it looks like this is a common and expensive problem with Subaru. Before this problem was diagnosed would I have recommended a Subaru? Yes. After discovering this defect and reading all the similar complaints would I recommend a Subaru now? No way!

  137. I have a 2008 Legacy. A few days ago I got the bad news (after finding oil on my garage floor – I knew it was bad) New head gasket will be done over the next two days. I NEVER had a car need this major work at only 70K miles. I would not buy a Subaru again. My next car will be a Honda CRV, hopefully not in the near future. Ford? Don’t they get terrible gas mileage? Fords used to be good but then most cars “used to be good.” I don’t know what a good car is any more. I think I’d rather have all my teeth pulled than buy another car, so I’m having it fixed and hope for the best.

  138. Justin,

    Your informative website is great! Wish I’d read it earlier. In 2006 I purchased a Subaru Forester Premium “S” model with 101,000 miles on it, so it was high mileage for the year. It’s mainly my wife’s car so I knew the mileage would average out in time, and it has since it is Nov. 2013 and only has 145,000 on it. It’s been very reliable so far. The original battery went out about 2 years ago. The “Die Hard” replacement “died easily” in only 2 years so I recently had to put another battery in it, but I’ve always kept things clean under the hood, including wiping off the battery, etc. Other than one brake job and the right axle shaft being replaced that’s been it until now. My wife had noticed a strange smell and last Sunday on our way to church (4 miles) I noted a white smoke appearing over the left front tire. When we got home, I looked things over and noted some oil accumulation on the left rear of the engine. I took the car to a little local garage that has done normal maintenance for me over the years on her Subaru and whatever else I’ve been driving. At first glance, the garage owner said he smelled anti freeze. I left it with them to check it out. They called me to say they thought there’s a very small head gasket leak and showed me the spot. They’d cleaned the engine off some and showed me the the back side on left of the engine. It is a barely noticeable stain at this point. There’s been no overheating, or drips on the driveway or anything like that. They also pointed out a torn axle boot on the left and replaced that axle. Maybe this is where the strange smell may have come from as it had thrown some grease out. This garage is not prepared to do the head gaskets as they said they are not familiar enough with this engine. I also noted somewhere in your answers you’d mentioned if you don’t need AWD maybe one shouldn’t have a car with this. In our area of central NC we hardly do need this. We like the car but wonder would it be time to say good-bye or just bite the bullet and do the repair. The car doesn’t get used that much and only locally. I see from your site this is a pretty expensive repair. With things being a bit tight right now, How long could we safely let this be – if at all?

    Thank you so much, I’ll look forward to hearing from you.

    1. Hello Ted,

      So the passenger side inner cv boot leaking grease out onto the Catalytic convertor does in fact create quite a pungent and strong smell. I point out passenger side as you mentioned left but I am not sure if you are aware that left is the drivers side or not, as in the car world everything is as if you are in the drivers seat. If the smoke was from the drivers side it may be some coolant leaking out from the back of the left side Head gasket.

      Once its leaking coolant it really needs to be done, and by the sounds of it not by your local shop.

      My advice is always the same, if you like the car and it suits your needs I would suggest you make the repairs and mostly because it’s going to impact your finances the least of all options available to you.

      If you don’t need AWD but still want one of the safest cars to have your wife drive around in, Id stick with it post repairs for at least another 5 years and closer to 200k, by then fuel economy standards will have legged up again, the hydrogen and CNG vehicles coming out next year will have most of the bugs worked out and there will be some less expensive options to the Tesla, if fuel economy or alternative propulsion systems are a concern at all. Just some ideas.

      Thanks for posting

      Justin

  139. Hi Justin,

    I apologize if this has already been asked/answered, but there is so much great information, I thought this might be quicker.

    I have a 2001 Sub Legacy wagon (163K miles). New timing belt/wheel bearings last winter.

    Head gasket leak now – my Subaru-specific mechanic quoted me $1200

    My question: I know this is a difficult question to answer in that there are many factors at play, but do you believe it would be worth fixing the HG? If doing so would mean I could get many more miles/a few more years out of it, I’d be willing to do so.

    It seems silly to put too much money into a car that might not be worth much more than that (I paid $2500 last winter + $600 repairs mentioned above).

    Any insight would be much appreciated. Have a happy holiday!

    1. One additional note : I’ve had 2 mechanics take a look, both felt they were fairly “minor” leaks. Both felt it was necessary for immediate repair, and to check oil levels very frequently.

    2. Hello Leah,

      Generally speaking its good advice to repair it and keep it until its truly time for a new car, this advice rings true if the rest of the car is in decent shape and the repairs can be made competently.

      I would like to think the car has at least another 100k left to go, maybe a little longer.

      Justin

  140. I’m looking at a 2001 Subaru Outback VDC (H6 engine) with just over 100k miles. What should I ask the mechanic to focus on when inspecting the vehicle? Are H6’s known for head gasket failures as the H4’s are? I believe the gasket was changed once before – I don’t know the mileage of when it was changed though. Thank you!

  141. Hi Justin –
    Very informative website! I appreciate all your comments and explanations. I have a 2010 Forester with 62,500 miles. My mechanic just told me that I have the beginning of a HG problem –slight leak. He was adamant that I push back to the dealership and/or SOA. The majority of my maintenance has not been done at the dealership so I’m hesitant to push on them.

    My understanding is that Subaru updated the 2010 models to correct the HG problem. If this is true, do you think there is any value for me to contact Subaru?
    Thanks very much for your time.
    KC

    1. Hello Kc,

      Its always worth a call to SOA, it doesn’t matter who maintains it, just that its maintained.

      The 2010 Forester has the same gasket that’s been used from mid 2002. In 2010 the Outback received a MLS gasket new to the SOHC 2.5l, Subaru did not do this with the Forester as they changed the entire engine in 2011 to the FB series.

      -Justin

  142. I thought I submitted this comment this morning, but I can’t find it in this thread. My apologies if it ends up being a double post.

    My 1996 Legacy Outback with 137k miles has the type of head gasket leak that allows exhaust into the radiator. This problem was discovered right after I had the radiator replaced due a crack in it. The engine still runs fine — though I haven’t gone far — but coolant is being pushed out of the radiator into the overflow after about 10 miles and eventually spills out onto the road or driveway. (I am not driving it now.) The independent repair shop that replaced the radiator, hoses, and thermostat at a cost of $750 gave me an estimate of $1700 to $2000 to replace the head gaskets. I don’t want to put that kind of money into a 17 year old car. However, I’d like to get some use out of it for the $750 I sunk into it for the radiator, and additional $ for tires I replaced 5k miles ago. So, my questions are: Will a leak-stop additive/treatment be effective on this type of leak, and what are the pros and cons of using it? Thanks.

    1. Sorry Ned,

      There is nothing in a bottle that will repair a internal breach in a HG. And yes it cant really be driven until its repaired the only way you will see any value out of the repairs you have made would be to repair it and drive it or sell it and let someone else repair it and drive it.

      -Justin

  143. My 1996 Legacy Outback with 137k miles has the type of head gasket leak that sends exhaust into the radiator. This problem was discovered right after I had the radiator replaced due a crack in it. The engine now runs fine but coolant gets pushed out of the radiator into the overflow after about 10 miles and eventually spills out onto the ground. I am not driving it now. The independent repair shop that replaced the radiator, hoses, and thermostat at a cost of $750 gave me an estimate of $1700 to $2000 to replace the head gaskets. I don’t want to put that kind of money into a 17 year old car. However, I’d like to get some use out of it for the $750 I sunk into it for the radiator, and additional $ for tires I replaced 5k miles ago. So, my questions are: Will a leak-stop additive/treatment be effective on this type of leak, and what are the pros and cons of using it? Thanks.

  144. We have a similar story. Our 06 Subaru with only 57,000 miles on it needs a new head gasket. We were about to sell the car because it is in otherwise excellent condition. All maintenance is up to date, etc. We agreed to let the buyer have the car checked out by a mechanic, and this problem was brought to light. We have ordered a 2014 Forester that we are thinking of cancelling. This seems to be a recurrent problem with Subarus??

  145. I have an 03 Forester, replaced head gaskets in January 2012. Now at the same dealer while getting something else fixed, they said they are leaking and need replaced. The warranty on the last replacement only lasts 20k miles or one year. The car has 190k miles on it but has been driven less than 15k since the first replacement. I think they are taking advantage of me – how can I test this on my own or find out if there’s really a problem? I have no symptoms of an issue, no leaking fluid or overheating.

  146. Justin,
    Love your site and the way you care for your customers. I purchased a used 2005 Imprezza RS for my daughter to take to college over a year ago. Car is nice and drives fine. I was changing the oil a month ago and noticed a drop of oil on bottom of filter. More troubling was some type of fluid further back located on some type frame? metal bar. This bar is located dead center of car between the oil pan and just before where the two exhaust pipes join. Not sure of its function or what it is called. The bolts on this metal bar as well as bar had a film of fluid that looks green (coolant?). The drivers side axial also had this fluid on it as well as two small diameter pipes (tubes) that run parallel to axial. I had my local garage take a look and they reported a very minimal almost undetectable gasket leak. I had them replace coolant for the upcoming winter and have noticed a greater amount of of this unknown fluid on axial/pipes/metal bar. I check oil/coolant/transmission fluids every weekend and have noticed no loss of such fluids. I am at a loss to know what is leaking or from where. Would you have any clue as to what it could be? I am planning on dropping car off to Subaru to look at as independent subaru experts are not located near me. Thank you.
    Robert

  147. I have a 2003 Forester and was just told I need a head gasket replaced. I said I think I had one done before, and at the dealer. They checked and said it was done in 2009. Is this normal for it to go so soon? I have 98,000 miles now, and only 70,795 in 2009. I was having the timing belt done now. Should there be some kind of warranty on the the gasket. Why would it fail again? Did they not do it right? Very upset!

    1. Hello Angela,

      I’m sorry to learn you have have had a second failure. It’s tough to determine why it might have occurred again. Did they mention if it was just some minor oil leaking or if the gaskets were leaking coolant?

      Maybe it’s not something that needs to be done for a while.

      -Justin

  148. Hi Justin –

    Great info, especially appreciate that you are continuing to monitor the replies after all this time.

    My 2006 Outback 2.5 has about 65K and I think is showing the early signs of a HG problem. No coolant loss or overheating, but I’m noticing some oil leakage on the driver’s side.

    Two questions:
    Is a small amount of oil seepage ever normal here? My wife drives the car, and I think it has been happening for a while (perhaps >1yr??) without any apparent problems.

    Has Subaru come out with any type of upgraded gasket from what was installed new on an ’06? If it is a HG failure, I would hope the exact same part wouldn’t go back in and lead me to hope it would last longer than the first one.

    Thanks

    1. Hello Eric,

      As long as its just leaking oil you can continue to drive it and just look it over and each subsequent oil change.

      Unfortunately no, Subaru will sell you the same gasket that came in the Car in 2006 as a replacement, which is why we prefer the Six Star to the OE.

      -Justin

  149. Hello my 2009 Subaru Legacy with 72,000 miles just blew a head gasket. It’s still under the extended 5year/100,000 mile warranty I bought with the car. After reading your article I’m not filled with confidence that the dealer repair will last a long time.

  150. Hi Justin. This is quite a service you are performing. Thank you!

    I own a 2006 Outback 2.5i with just under 109,000 miles on it and I’ve recently been told that I, like many others on your page, need both head gaskets replaced. I’m in the Washington, D.C. Area so the repairs will be pricey: $2400. I would also need to replace the timing belt.

    Is this repair something about which I should be outraged or is this reasonable on a 7 year old Subaru with similar mileage?

    Thanks,
    Dana

    1. Hello Dana,

      Lots become outraged and some make really poor decisions as a result, doesn’t sound like that’s you which is refreshing.

      What I can say is the AWD system works really well, the car is very safe and reliable and that’s due to the Boxer engine design, but the boxer design in some circumstances can be more susceptible to HG leaks.

      Major repairs always come as a shock, and are never pleasant. At 109,000 the car is already due for a timing belt which would be around $500 for the basic service most likely done at the same time as the HG its just the cost of the belt, so the Hg repair is really more like $1900, which is still a lot of money. If you can put 100k more on the car until a possible repeat its pennies per mile.

      If you like the car and it still suits your needs, id fix it and hopefully concentrate on the next 100k.

      -Justin

      1. Thanks, Justin. For the sake of clarity and to be sure I get your best advice, the HG replacement would cost $2400; the timing belt would be an additional charge. Still the same advice?

        Thanks,
        Dana

      2. Hi Justin
        Thank you very much for your dedications and knowledge on Subaru. It is my first time owning a Subaru – 1999 SUS Limited with very low milage. The car doesn’t have HG problem, as yet. I would like your inputs or suggestions on the following questions.

        Regarding minimizing coolant contamination:
        1. Would a higher octane (89 or 91) gasoline help?
        2. Would gasoline without ethanol mix make a difference in trying to prolong the HG?
        3. When changing the coolant, does it has to be Subaru coolant only? If aftermarket coolant can be used, what specific quality of coolant is desired?

        Regarding the AWD system, there is a FWD switch shown on the electrical diagram. I think it is physically located in the engine compartment near the wiper motor. What is its purpose? Can it be disconnected from ground lead (so to get FWD mode) for summer driving? And can it be done without causing harms or retardment to the transmission and the engine in anyway?

        Thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts.

        Best regards,

        Joe

        1. Hello Joe,

          1. Would a higher octane (89 or 91) gasoline help?

          Yes my belief is that a higher octane fuel will help prolong all aspects of the engine

          2. Would gasoline without ethanol mix make a difference in trying to prolong the HG?

          Its also my belief that ethanol is a terrible idea, and we are faced with all sorts of fuel related shortcomings, this ranges from prematurely failed fuel pumps to cracked fuel lines as well as excessive carbon build up.

          3. When changing the coolant, does it has to be Subaru coolant only? If aftermarket coolant can be used, what specific quality of coolant is desired?

          In your era 1996 to 1999 DOHC, there is no compelling reason to use the Subaru coolant, I would stay away from Dex cool however.

          The FWD fuse holder is meant to be used to assist a Tech in diagnosing a problem with the AWD system by disabling the transfer clutch solenoid. If you did this for a long period of time you should expect for the AWD system to develop a problem.

          Hope that helps

          -Justin

  151. Interesting, I just bought a used 2005 outback with a new engine. Old had 121K miles. I bet it had this problem.

  152. Hello Justin,

    Love your attitude on “when hit with a $2K repair buy a new car”!?!

    Anyway, I found a ’99 OBW with 170K on it which I’m told had a replaced water everything (pump, sensors, etc.) and runs well but still throws a light after running a while. This vehicle has been “lovingly maintained by family mechanic” ’til now. I’m willing to pay a local mech. (foreign specialist) do a HC test in the coolant. The A/C was not very cool during a quick test drive so I’m expecting a positive HC test. If they’re asking $3600 and the test comes back with exhaust in the coolant, should I knock $1500 off the price and have this repaired at my mechanic’s to have a long running car?

    1. Hello Stuart,

      I think if there is room on the price and it suits your needs, buy it make the repairs and you should have many good years of service for your money.

      Its also possible the AC is just low, maybe its not as bad as you think?

      -Justin

  153. Hi, great website,
    My wifes best friend has a 2000 subaru legacy wagon
    187000, head gasket problem. Should she fix it or sell it. Otherwise car great.
    Thanks,
    Mark

    1. Hello Mark,

      The 2000 still has a lot of great life left, the question depends on the condition of the rest of the car however, if the rest of the car is slid then yes, if its in need of everything else than there should be some concern.

      -Justin

  154. Hi Justin…great info here. Just a quick question:
    I’m currently looking at few subaru outback wagons, few of them being year 96 with the 2.5 engine.
    It has come to my attention, that 96 is the only year for the 2.5 to require premium fuel?…
    Is there any way I can program the ECM to the other year specs so the vehicle no longer requires premium fuel?
    Or are there some differences in the actual engine between 96 and other years, which I can’t do much about?
    thank you
    Dave

    1. Hello Dave,

      The only difference between 1996 and 1997 to 1999 DOHC is the head gasket used in 1996 is composite and the 1997 to 1999 DOHC is MLS.

      Where are you reading the premium fuel piece?

      -Justin

  155. Greetings from downunder. Very much appreciate the effort & info that have gone into this site over years. Can I point out that acid coolant has a low pH? Also, the coolant levels in a pressurised system don’t change in the block, unless a heap of gas, ie air has got in. So the HG in an upright engine is not ” out of the water” when the engine is off. In oz, Ford built a 3.9 L 6 for many years , iron block & alloy head, and you could take bets on it (hg) failing at 200,000ks. Many went earlier, of course. A designed in HG problem is not a subi exclusive. I was fascinated by the electrical system influence on the HGs, thanks for that

    1. Dearest Stuart,

      “Can I point out that acid coolant has a low pH”

      Are you stating that elevated electrolysis levels in the cooling system decrease the PH levels? That would be a false assumption and I wonder what kind of testing you have done? Have you ever looked into the correlation between increased voltage in the cooling system and increased PH levels?

      “Also, the coolant levels in a pressurized system don’t change in the block, unless a heap of gas, ie air has got in”

      The coolant in the cooling system is not under pressure at all times, instead there are times the system is actually under vacuum or under no pressure at all, it builds pressure as the cooling system heats up that pressurized coolant expands into the coolant overflow bottle or coolant expansion tank, and then as the engine cools the coolant is pulled back into the radiator as the pressure in the radiator becomes less than atmospheric. This constant yin and yang can also create small air pockets that under normal circumstances should bleed out past the radiator cap and into the overflow bottle, but that’s not always the case especially if the rad cap is left to chance, and lastly you have completely looked past the evaporation factor.

      My point about the head gaskets as it pertains to coolant that sits “on top of” the head gaskets utilizing gravity as a form of pressure, this is unique to the Boxer design.

      Not sure where you were going with your post, but hopefully this information helps you a bit?

      Thanks for posting

      -Justin

  156. Justin,

    Thanks for all the great information. I live on the east side of the cascades from you and am volunteer ski patrol therefore considering an all wheel drive vehicle.

    I am considering a 05-08 Legacy or OB. From what I can tell I am better off in regard to HG and timing belt issues if I look at an H6.

    I have only done a couple of days of research on Subaru specifically so your insight into my thought process would be appreciated.

    I also saw just a few posts above that there are potentially heigher ownership costs associated with H6 models, what are those?

    Thanks again,

    Chris.

    1. Hello Chris,

      By 2005 Subaru had done a good job of teaching the Dealer Service departments about the importance of using the right coolant, they added ground straps and the gasket was updated starting in 2002. So mostly a 2005 to 2009 may slowly over time develop an external oil leak, this could eventually turn into a coolant leak and possibly an internal failure but that’s not that common.

      The Subaru H6 models use a MLS type gasket and have more surface mass, as such the head gaskets do hold up better if all other things are considered equal (maintenance, use, etc).

      The increase in ownership costs are derived from it uses 7 quarts of oil at an oil change interval VS 4.3 to 4.7 depending on which year H4, it has two more spark plugs and they are much more expensive as well as some years requiring premium fuel. Depending on what year the H6 models are known for acc belt and component failures (at higher mileages) fuel pumps, and power steering pumps, they go through front brakes more often than the H4 models, as its the same braking system but more weight upfront given the larger engine size.

      I have owned just about every configuration of Subaru to this point, and really liked the 200 to 2004 3.0l in the llbean and VDC, same thing for the 2005 to 2009 as well as the 2010 to current I also currently drive a 2012 Outback with the 3.6l.

      I prefer the 6 because I spend so much time going over the pass, and if you have ever driven Highway 2 the ability to pass is a must.

      If you need AWD ( which it sounds like you do) a Subaru is your best choice, you would be fine in either the 4 or 6 cylinder just make sure you have a prepurchase inspection done.

      Thanks for volunteering in the Ski Patrol!

      -Justin

  157. Hello AWDA,

    I had my 2003 OBW 2.5 HG fix performed @ AWDA June 2011 w/ 66k miles on the car. Just this week I noticed (now at 84k miles) the radiator fans running more often and my overflow tank is much higher than the full mark and has bubbles (about 2 bubbles a sec)in it while running or just after engine off. I was told I might just have a bad cap which I have now replaced. I topped off the actual radiator while the engine was cold and pumped out excess fluid in the reservoir so it was exactly at the full mark while cold. Over this last day I would take off the cap and top off the radiator (while engine cool or cold) some more thinking maybe I had some trapped air which is making room for more coolant. My temp needle at times has shown about 50% where it normally hovers closer to 40-45%. I purchased a yellow funnel air bleed kit thinking maybe I am just not getting all the air out (after bad cap replacement theory) and will try that next week when it arrives. There has been no flush or change of the cooling system since the HG fix was performed in 2011 (besides apprx yearly very minor top off of coolant in the reservoir tank).

    Does this sound like a cap, thermostat or air trap issue? I really hope this isn’t another HG failure at only 2yrs & 18k miles later. I doubt that Six Star gasket would be the issue. Any advice for stuff I should try before bringing it in for service? You guys have been excellent with all the past help and would like to thank you again for that.

    1. Hello Dan,

      We would really need to have a look to know whats going on. We don’t really see the Six Stars fail unless there was some sort of an underlying set of circumstances such as a bad cap, thermostat failed cooling fan etc which we did see earlier this year on a Customers car where the radiator cap failed and the car ended up with a air pocket that went unnoticed until it damaged the head gasket. The customer does his own oil changes and we had never seen the car post HG repairs which is why as a car ages its important to know all of the things to look for during an oil change. I actually posted it on the website as well https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-service-seattle-check-your-radiator-cap/. Rad caps can fail in a few different ways, the seal on the one in question became swollen and did not allow for proper transfer of coolant from the expansion tank into the radiator as the water in the system evaporated slowly over time, this created a low coolant level situation that air pockets and hot spots in the cooling system. Now I have no idea if this applies to you, its just one that I still remember as we really felt bad for the customer and we discounted a second repair even though it was clearly not a workmanship or component issue, it was just us trying to help.

      If you are still local to us its probably a good idea to schedule some time to let us have a look.

      Maybe its an air pocket, or restricted radiator or maybe its worse.

      Here to help when your ready

      -Justin

  158. hello from Nova Scotia. Am investigating the purchase of a 2006 outback LTD with 160 K mileage. the dealer has agreed to have the cooling system pressure tested along with the exhaust. Are these 2 tests adequate to determine if head gaskets need replacing or do you recommend a physical inspection as well?

    1. Hello Michael,

      The 2006 is most likely going to leak externally so a visual inspection is important, you can pressure test the cooling system as well, but I am not sure what looking at the exhaust is going to do for you?

      Do you by chance mean a hydro carbon test for internal failures with an exhaust gas analyzer, while its possible for the SOHC engines to fail internally its not all that common.

      -Justin

  159. I almost stepped into it by purchasing a 2.5L Subaru, but the HG went on it right before I bought it and lucky the owner was a stand up guy and told me about it. His mechanic told him that Subaru’s have a long history of HG issues with their 4 cylinders. However, I am still interested in an AWD vehicle. How are Subaru’s 6 cylinder engines? Do they also have HG issues?

    1. Hello Roland,

      The six cylinder models don’t really have HG issues but can have higher ownership costs. That’s not to say we don’t ever replace Head Gaskets on the H6 just not nearly as often as the H4.

      -Justin

  160. 1997 Legacy Outback 2.5 225,000. Runs great, looks great for her age, just bought her for $2000. Took it to local Subie Guys for a $50 check up to check whole car over and check CE light. Told that I have bad HG’s that caused misfires in multiple banks, exhaust leaking into coolant also.

    Been wrenching on cars for many years and thought I may tackle this myself as opposed to paying $2000 +/-.

    3 questions:

    1. Engine sounds noise-free now, is it worth the time/money for the trouble? In other words, will I get 50,000ish more miles on the lower half if properly serviced?

    2. Machine shop close by. Gonna have head shaved/cleaned. Should I have it totally rebuilt – valves, etc.?

    3. Any advice, tips, or tricks-of-the-trade?

    Thanks much, great website!!!

    1. Hello Jamie,

      We make plenty of HG repairs to vehicles with that kind of mileage most go smooth, but every once and a while one uses oil or something else in the bottom end fails down the road.

      Its hard for me to tell you which will occur for you.

      Most likely the heads are okay but if you are unable to check for warp and are uncomfortable cleaning the surface your self then yes take them to a machine shop. I wouldn’t do a valve job however as it will put more pressure on the bottom end as will shaving the heads down.

      As far as tips, We sell a hg kit that comes with a guide and can offer some support if you buy from us.

      -Justin

  161. 2000 legacy Wagon. 2.5 Original head gaskets failed in spectacular fashion at 96,000 and Subaru changed them for free. They were leaking oil like rain every time I turned the car off. At 185,000, the gaskets were leaking again and I paid a guy on the side to do the timing belt, head gaskets, valve cover gaskets. He planed the heads for square and used four layer metal gaskets (the recommended fix). At 152,000 they are still bone dry at least on the outside. I’m not going to tell you what he charged, but you guys are paying way too much, get a local mechanic that has experience with these things to do it. The car needed a main engine wiring harness too and everything was under a thousand, timing belt, head gaskets, main engine wiring harness, all gaskets and seals OEM subaru parts.

    1. I’m actually running dex cool in my subaru. The change over sucked, but now it’s changed, it’s nice. But the change over does suck. Green and orange make mud so you have to get all the old coolant out and it’s not easy. If you do this, do it at your own risk, it’s not recommended by anyone.

      1. Hello Dave,

        Yes you are correct Dex Cool is not recommended by anybody and is known to have compatibility issues, so yes use at your own risk.

        Thanks for posting

        Justin

  162. Justin, I have a 2004 Forester Suburu that needs an engine.
    I am from New York City and a local company has a few engines in the $700 range with the following note :

    THE ENGINE WE HAVE IN STOCK WAS REMOVED FROM A THE JDM SUBARU LEGACY / OUTBACK / FORESTER IN JAPAN AND IMPORTED DIRECTLY TO US WITH APPROXIMATELY 45K-55K MILES ON IT!

    THESE ENGINES DO NOT RUN AN EGR SYSTEM THEREFORE PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR MECHANIC ON HOW TO BYPASS IT. THIS ENGINE IS A 2.0L REPLACEMENT ENGINE TO YOUR EJ252, WHICH IS A 2.5L ENGINE.

    Do you recommend avoiding this type? Is it better rebuilding the engine that is in the car now?

    1. I would not suggest going that route at all. Replacement parts are not easy to come by, the engine will have less power, and technically not be a legal install.

      -Justin

  163. I’d like to buy a 2009+ Forester. But I’m concerned about this Head Gasket issue. I have over 250k on my current Toyota and it’s ready for the next 250k with just scheduled maintenance. So the idea of having to spend thousands to replace head gaskets is potentially scaring me off from buying a Forester.

    How common is this issue on these later model Foresters? Are there any years where Subaru has “fixed” this problem? What should I look for on a prepurchase inspection?

    1. Hello Dan,

      I’m not sure what to tell you to look for on a pre-purchase inspection, are you the one doing the pre-purchase inspection or taking it to a shop? There are plenty of people who never make head gasket repairs to Subaru’s and some that do. I would suggest to you that you buy a car that suits your needs. Currently there are limited choices of vehicles that compare with the 2009 Forester. This would be in terms of functional AWD and 5-Star crash rating. Out of the vehicles that compete with Subaru in that class I have no hesitation recommending Subaru to you. If you don’t need the features that a Subaru provides there are other options, but I would be leery about current era Toyota’s being anywhere near as dependable as your current Toyota has been.

      Hope that helps.

      Justin

  164. hey, Justin. Tomorrow, I am going to look at an ’03 Outback, 132k miles, 5 speed manual, 4 cylinder engine. I have talked to many people who love Subaru cars and I am , somewhat reluctantly, looking to replace my 95′ Volvo 940 wagon. Side note: I love Volvos but can attest to the cost of fixing them. I even do my own work, which does save a lot of money, but the costs are still there. Anyway, this head gasket issue does scare me a lot, frankly. However, I do need a car and this is the best Subaru, within my budget, I have seen around my location by far. What do you think the risk of having a gasket issue soon would be if I did purchase the car? What can I look for on the car to maybe tell if it is in need of one? Obviously, leaks from the head itself would point that out, and I have also heard battery corrosion is a sign sometimes.

    1. Hello Robert,

      ” Obviously, leaks from the head itself would point that out”

      Yes, the only thing you can do at this point is look to see if the gaskets are leaking now. If they are you have a head gasket leak and you need to factor this in. If the gaskets are currently dry and the engine hasn’t been recently steam cleaned, then there is a possibility they stay dry for the life of the vehicle, but they could start leaking tomorrow. There are just way to many variables to be able to tell you if the car you are looking at has or will have a head gasket leak.

      It’s great that you are doing research prior to making a big decision and I hope that if you don’t buy a Subaru you do as much painstaking research on any other model you consider. I feel that a Subaru vehicle would be great car to step up to from your current model of Volvo, especially if you need AWD and care about your families safety.

      Generally speaking most owners of a 2000-2004 Outback 5 speed are happy with their Subaru over the long run.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  165. I own Impreza 2.0l 2006 with 80,000 miles and overheating issues . It started after 50,000 miles with a failure coolant fan and that has been replaced twice,and I even replaced the radiator once but still have the overheating issues . Many mechanics checked and said you have HG failure(there’s bubbles in cooling system) but “Subaru Service” -in here- denied that.THE most shocking thing was when I asked for HG from the “Subaru Parts” and they give me HG with Part No 11044AA680 , I checked this part No 11044AA680 on google search and found it’s only in Russian country !!!
    How the hell you sell this type of car in A VERY HOT COUNTRY , a country that reach 118.4 °F .
    I will not buy any types of this again.

    1. I am sorry to hear of your troubles.

      But when the cooling system fan failed it may have damaged the Head gaskets.

      Lastly Subaru part number 11044AA680 is not for Vehicles imported int Russia Only, its for the JDM 2.0l STI.

      -Justin

      1. Hey, great website! We recenty bought a 2002 Outback for my daughter, a beautiful car w/130K. Having read your info. on HGL, I looked the engine over and found no external leaks, except for some valve cover seepage. HOWEVER, I have been adding coolant weekly to this car, no drips or coolant leaks of any kind. Is this a sign of an internal coolant leak?? Should I take it to a dealer for diagnostics for confirmation?
        If I have to pull the heads should I get them checked at a machine shop for warpage? Would I be money ahead to do the valves too?
        Thanks for any “Soob” advice!

        Bruce in Yakima

        1. Hello Bruce,

          An internal head gasket failure is one thing that it could have, but also coolant consumption can also be attributed to a cracked cylinder head, leaking radiator or any of the hoses you may not be seeing as it’s steaming off. The thing to do is to have the cooling system pressure tested and from there the leaks should be able to be found.

          If you elect to make the repairs yourself and it is in fact the head gaskets and you are unable to check the cylinder heads for warp, then yes you would need to take them into a machine shop and have them inspected. It’s not a bad idea to do a valve job while it’s apart, but typically not needed at this mileage.

          Hope that helps

          Justin

  166. Justin: I am so impressed with your posts. I have owned two subbies, a 1981 wagon and a 1990 Legacy LSi. I was thinking of buying a friends 2003 Outback wagon for $6K, 118,000 miles and I know it has been well taken care of. I totally trust my mechanic, and he knows subbies and the HG problems. He specifically looked at the HG and said they were damp. He said HG could go in 2 weeks or 200,000 mi. I guess my question is, if I paid 6K for it and 2,000 for a gasket repair, did I overpay for the vehicle or should I move on and look for another car.

    1. Hello Lori,

      I think you would be happy with the car over the long run if you bought is and had to put some money into it as well. We have several Customers with 300k and counting on that era Subaru, and there is no reason the car you are looking at shouldn’t do the same. This advice really only works however if the rest of the car checks out ok as well.

      Id advise you to not get hung up as much on Blue book value and buy what suits your needs, take care of it and over a ten year period you should expect good use.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  167. I own a 2008 Subaru Outback with 59,145 miles and yesterday I had the head gaskets replaced with 2.5 SOHC New Gen, also both front and rear left wheel bearing and hub assembly and since it was close to the 60,000 they also replaced water pump, timing belt and a few other small things for a painful cost of $3,720. Since the car was under 60,000 miles I was hoping to cover some of the cost under warranty, however the warranty time frame had expired. After reading the other posts it would seem that Subaru would know that there are some problems with the head gaskets and I wonder why they wouldn’t have a recall on this part. I have always had a lot of respect for Subaru and when I bought this car I was hoping it would be low maintenance other than recommended services and now I am worried about other possible repair costs. What other known issues should I be aware of? Thank you for your professional advice.

    1. Hello Laurie,

      That is a lot to swallow all at once, but that’s actually the typical things that happen, so you should hopefully be good for a while.

      To the Recall thing, Recalls are typically predicated aground safety issues, such as a defect in a seat belt, air bag or wiring that could cause a fire. Sometimes if there is an engine related issue that could cause the vehicle to shut down that would also potentially trigger a recall or like in the case of Toyota floor mats that get stuck.

      There was a recall surrounding the wheel bearings on some 2005/2006 Outbacks but not the 2008. There was a Campaign for the 2000 to 2002 HG because they might leak coolant and overheat, but never for the 2008 as its just typically a oil leak.

      But now I want to speak about what bothers me about your post and I think you should call SOA (if this was done at a Subaru Dealer) and that’s that the whole thing should have been under warranty 5 years 60k, and if the bearings and HG are so bad now they must have been bad enough a few months ago as well.

      I dont know who services it, but I can only imagine it was the Subaru dealer and they waited until it was just out of warranty to inform you, and thats the part that bothers me.

      Justin

  168. Now that you have seen a few years of the FB25 engine, do you have a feel for if the head gasket failure rate is any better or worse than previous engines?

    1. Hello Daniel,

      The FB series came out in 2011 and only in the Forester, then in 2012 in everything else, it will be years from know before we know what they are factually like.

      The only HG that showed up with an early failure was the 2000 to 2002, the rest all took many years to start to leak oil.

      Justin

  169. Jason,
    Great informative blog. Thanks for the info! I am looking to replace a 98 2.5L H4 SOHC engine. My customer has asked me about JDM engines. Any thoughts? All I can find are DOHC engines however and am not sure if I can make that work in his car.

  170. I have a 1999 Subaru Outback who needs the head gaskets, the coolant its getting into the engine. I do not want to fix this car but I want to buy another Subaru. I just found a 2003 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport $4550 this is a good price but I am a little scared about the head gaskets, I really like Subarus but repleacing the head gaskets its like your worst nightmare. Anyway I only need the car for winter time, i live in Michigan, in the summer i like to use my Yamaha Zuma its so much fun!

    1. Hello Leo,

      Id let someone else have a look as if coolant is getting into the oil its not HG, its got a crack somewhere.

      If you only need the car for the Winter Id fix what you have, if you do instead gravitate to the 2003 have Someone check it out, that should either instill confidence or fear?

      Fixing a fluid leak from a HG on a SOHC does not have to be a night mare, there is a lot of stigma around the term “head gasket” that really doesn’t need to be there.

      -Justin

  171. I have a 2003 Subie Impreza 2.5RS and I’m facing a second head gasket issue. I’ve heard that Subarus are kind of notorious for the HG leaks, but hey I figured what car doesn’t have their problems. So when I paid $2400 the first time, about 2.5 years ago when the car just hit 90k, I wasn’t too upset.

    I’m facing the EXACT same head gasket leak now – identical ask the first one – cylinder 4 misfire, again. It was just diagnosed this morning in a shop. My question is, is this because the first shop didn’t do the job right? I was told by them that my Subaru should easily last another 100k without any problems…and I haven’t even drove more than 30k – it’s now only at 113k miles. It’s pretty unbelievable to me that I’m fixing the exact same problem just a little over 2 years. At $2400/repair, I would be better off just getting another car. I dropped over $6000 on repairs for this car including this next HG repair. That to me is ridiculous. Somehow I still love and want to keep this little Subie…what I’m more interested in knowing is whether or not the previous job did a bad job on the HG repair.

    I’m a reasonable person, cars get old and they will have problems. I’m not a fan of repairs, but I understand when repairs needs come up. But c’mon, two HG leaks in less than 3 years?? Something is wrong here. I don’t expect the repair to last forever, but I figure it should be at least another 6-8 and more likely 10 years before another HG leak comes up!!! Someone help me!

    1. Hi Cathy,

      Sorry to hear about the trouble.

      There is no way from here I can know why its only lasted 30,000 miles, it could be the repair but it could also be another deficiency in the cooling system caused the issue. We make these repairs weekly and many cars we still see 5 , 6 and seen years later still going strong, one just hit 300k a few weeks ago, and we feel great about that. But every once in a while we have one that didn’t last as long as we wanted, sometimes its follow up maintenance done at the quick lube were they are sloppy about topping the coolant off and thus it becomes low on coolant and the failure begins, sometimes its a lack of follow up maintenance such as 7000 mile oil changes, sometimes the radiator has an issue, or the thermostat or the radiator cap and before it can be corrected an issue arises.

      Sometimes maybe things could have gone better with the repair. What we try to do is identify what happened and be fair. That’s the right thing to do by a customer but it would also depend on how much follow up service we had performed, if we have done it all than we maybe I would feel we should have caught a failed radiator cap if that’s what ultimately the issue was. I am speaking in generalities here not from any knowledge of your situation.

      I need to try and help you remove the emotions from the situation so you can focus purely one the numbers.

      If the last HG repair cost $2400.00 and lasted 30,000 miles it cost you 8 cents a mile a, $25,000 car costs 83 cents for the same mileage.

      It was worth it to make the repairs, it’s just a shame they didn’t last longer.

      From here its hard to suggest what you do next.

      What I always say however is if you don’t fix it someone else will and drive it.

      -Justin

      1. Hi Justin,

        Thank you so much for sharing this information and for you commitment to continue to answer questions and comments.

        In my past I owned a 1994 Subaru 4WD wagon….a wonderful, underpowered car that driven mountain roads right past stuck jeeps and pickup trucks. I also owned a 1996 AWD Legacy…just simple AWD fun. I owned each of these cars for about a year and had to part with them for different reasons. Back then I did not know about the HG problems, and I never experienced it.

        Now I am looking at buying another Subaru. So again, thank you for enlightening me. My driving and maintenance habits fit Subaru ownership.

        I do have one argument for your consideration. You like to compare the cost of a HG repair against the cost of a new car purchase….and you usually create a number like in this post such as a cost of $.08 per mile verses $.83 per mile cost for a new car. This is bad math.

        In this math, you are distributing the entire cost of the car over 30,000 miles. Any car will last so much longer….just like a Subaru. You are not showing a real cost of ownership for the other brand car over the comparative amount of miles. If you need a more detailed explanation, email me direct and I will try my best to help you understand this.

        So in closing, thank you for the great mechanical advice about Subarus. Please balance your equations fairly.

        Gill

        1. Hi Gill,

          I would like to try and explain a few things you’re missing.

          “I do have one argument for your consideration. You like to compare the cost of a HG repair against the cost of a new car purchase….and you usually create a number like in this post such as a cost of $.08 per mile verses $.83 per mile cost for a new car. This is bad math.

          In this math, you are distributing the entire cost of the car over 30,000 miles. Any car will last so much longer….just like a Subaru. You are not showing a real cost of ownership for the other brand car over the comparative amount of miles. If you need a more detailed explanation, email me direct and I will try my best to help you understand this.”

          If you wanted to take the time to read some more posts on ownership costs you will find I generally point out there are going to be ongoing costs associated with either choice.

          There are way to many variables to consider and the only thing I can accurately comment on is the cost to repair vs the cost to purchase. Ongoing maintenance, insurance, fuel, licensing and inspections (where applicable) as well as incidentals play a huge role in cost of ownership, I could add lots more here as well such as the dollar VS the yen, the lack of compounding interest on $30,000 pulled form an account to buy a new car VS $2500 to repair, or worse the act of paying interest on $30,000 you didn’t have to buy a car VS 2500 to repair, not to mention depreciation rates. Where does one want to begin or for that matter end as the variables never will really cease.

          These are my exact word to another poster trying to help soften the blow over money already spent.

          “If the last HG repair cost $2400.00 and lasted 30,000 miles it cost you 8 cents a mile a $25,000 car costs 83 cents for the same mileage.”

          It’s still factual to state the same exact thing, the part you might be missing is I am not getting into anything other than the last 30,000 miles, not the next 30,000 miles or the next 100k, just the last 30,000, the cost to repair versus buy, no other costs are speculated, because they are not known and its not the end of the road for either situation.

          If you buy a brand new car and have driven it 1 mile and come to a stop, it has cost you what ever you payed for it to drive it that one mile. Hopefully there are many more miles to go, but it doesn’t change the facts.

          It’s not that I lack the ability to break down a comprehensive cost of ownership study over a 20 year period, it’s that I just don’t have the time to prepare one for each individual that posts here, id ask that rather than read a post all by itself read the original question and than the answer, please understand that advice given is typically about that posters situation and may not apply to everyone or anyone else.

          Next, any cost of ownership study that is not rearward looking is merely theory.

          Thanks for your input.

          -Justin

  172. My 2005 Subaru Baja is in the shop as I write this getting $1800 worth of headgasket repair done. I love my little truck though, so i agree this is probably a speedbump in the 300,000 I expect to get out of this vehicle. My question is, is there any reason to suspect a high quality synthetic oil could damage head gaskets? Just curious. Your article is the most informative one on the internet regarding this issue.

    1. Hi Scott,

      Synthetic oil it self is not the enemy, belief that the interval can be stretched out is what can get people in trouble, the truth is that in around town type driving the oil can be contaminated actually in some instances quicker than just a conventional or blend.

      For your application I really like a blend and oil changes with the Seasons.

      Hope that helps and here’s to reaching thew 300k Club

      Justin

  173. All I can say is Subaru owners are spoiled. I owned a 1992 Subaru Legacy that I bought new when my son was born. He went to college recently and guess what car he drove? Yes, my 1992 with 325,000 miles on it.

    I now have a 2003 HG Outback which needs head gaskets. I bought this one used so I don’t know what it’s life was like before me but I’m happy to get it fixed. I have plenty of friends with their Mercedes and Volvos but when it’s time to go skiing in the mountains of Colorado, guess what car they want to take? The Subie with the snow tires!

    I also “tried” a Chrysler Pacifica AWD for awhile. I got rid of it when it slid down the hill even with snow tires. That never happens with my Subarus.

  174. I have a 2008 Subaru Outback 2.5L with 126000 miles. A year and a half ago I had the head gasket/water pump replaced due to oil leaking. My mechanic said it looked like it had just started. Over the past month the car has been overheating sporadically. I drive 1 hour into work and it usually happens towards the end of my commute. After it cools and I add more coolant, it drives fine. My mechanic initially replaced tubing/cap on radiator after pressure test indicated these were needed. After a week or so, it overheated again. This time my mechanic did pressure tests with no leaks showing, so he replaced the thermostat. Well after a week or so, it overheated again. My mechanic had it in and couldn’t find a leak, so he replaced the radiator. Well it ran fine for a little over a week but overheated again. This time I noticed that the air blowing out (since I turn on the heater every time it overheats) started blowing cold air and the thermostat went back to its normal reading- midway between H and C. My mechanic said that this means there is either a HG, cracked head or cracked block. Since the HG was just replaced, I am guessing that probably isn’t the problem. He said that we could send off the head to be tested for (~2K) but that it was very difficult to determine if it was a cracked block. We love this car but don’t want to keep sinking money in (have had both rear wheel bearings and front axle replaced in last year and half). Our mechanic said since we have replaced so much of the car that a remanned engine might be a good way to go….~$4K.The motor he found has 38K miles on it. But so far he can only get one with a 1 year warranty which my mechanic is not thrilled about…he says a 3 yr warranty is more common. Should we try stop leak first to see if that solves the problem? Do you have any ideas about whether it might be a head or block issue? My mechanic said that the car never put out white exhaust which he said would have been another dead giveaway to the problem. I am just not sure how to proceed. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks.

    1. Hello Elizabeth,

      I have read the post a couple of times a few things don’t add up.

      1. the only way to look for a internal HG failure is by conducting a hydro carbon test. You can read more about that here https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gaskets-problems-explained-part-ii/

      2. A remanned engine should have zero miles, other wise its a used engine and that’s a terrible idea.

      What I suspect is the HG have failed internally and we have tried everything around them in an attempt to not want to face that, I mean your mechanic not you by the way. Its also possible that either the rad cap or radiator or thermostat was at fault and the HG were compromised as a result (regardless of age), but it doesn’t sound like he has given you that indication?

      Troubling to me is lack of information if the cap was faulty, or the thermostat faulty it could have caused the HG to fail and who does the maintenance on the car? A faulty rad cap should have been caught on a routine oil change if your guy does those for you, however if its quick lubed they wouldn’t know what to look for.

      A test for the presence of Exhaust gas in the cooling system should be performed and if they are found to be present, the engine needs to come out and the cylinder heads removed, once this happens I am confident a breach in the HG will be apparent. Hopefully your Mechanic may participate in some of these costs if its been a short lived repair? I am not saying his repair has gone wrong, and I am not saying the HG is defective I am saying if he did the repair and all of the subsequent maintenance on time this probably shouldn’t have happened, if it was us we would help.. And once it was apart and more known been as fair as we can.

      The block and or heads crack so infrequently I would be amazed if that’s the cause.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  175. Hi Justin,

    I am considering buying a 2005 Forester XT with 130k. The dealer stated it was having the Turbo replaced and would be available soon. There’s an independent Subaru repair shop in the area and I was considering taking it in to let them do a pre-purchase inspection for $100. Assuming this is something similar to what your shop would do, would this provide insight into most issues? What if the dealer cleans up the engine and it doesn’t show any signs of oil leakage? Lol, I guess that would be a bad sign in itself! Would a compression check be part of the service and would this help at all in identifying a HG problem? Any other recommendations regarding what to look for in a vehicle of this age and mileage? Thanks so much for your insight and expertise. -Sean

    1. Hello Sean,

      A compression test is not really going to tell you anything other than what the compression is. On modern cars any cylinder that has low compression would be picked up by the ECM as a weak cylinder and set a misfire code And thus a check engine light.

      A pre purchase inspection is a Must on any used car especially if being sold by a Dealership, there are few exceptions to this.

      Most Turbo models will not develop a HG issue. Id ask the Dealer if the pan was removed and checked for debris as part of the turbo replacement?

      Justin

  176. Hi Justin,

    I own a 2000 Auto Subaru Liberty(The Australian model of the Legacy) which has been acting up over the past few months. It has been sending coolant back into the overflow and it starts to overheat. I took it to the mechanics and they were saying that the gaskets are messed up but they were asking for $4000! Which I refused to pay. My friend told me about this quick fix head gasket bottle which did manage to fix my problem for a short amount of time but now it has started to overheat and my car is violently shaking when in idle and when accelerating at a steady rate. My ‘power’ light was flashing on the dash and has stopped flashing since last week but the shaking is still there. I have replaced the radiator since and nothing has changed. I love this car and I would just like to know if replacing the head gaskets will fix my car from overheating? Also do you know of any reasons relevant to the shaking of my car?

    1. Hi Josh,

      It really have been fixed right when it first started to overheat, I cant be sure but it may be to late to bother.

      I do not want to be committal in telling you the HG will fix the issue when I just do not know the severity and the shaking could be you have done serious damage?

      Sorry I cant offer more, but someone close to you needs to have a detailed look.

      Justin

  177. Hi Justin
    I came across an interesting post on the internet the other day in which the poster is suggesting, that Subaru DOES NOT have a gasket problem and any failed Subaru gaskets are actually a symptom of some other problem most of it having to do with the design of the cooling system…
    This gentleman goes to great detail explaining this and to a casual observer with limited knowledge such as myself, it makes a lot of sense..
    I was wondering what is your opinion on this?
    Here is the link:
    https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/88-head-gasket-issues/17264-no-subarus-dont-have-problems-there-headgaskets-print.html

    1. Hello Dave,

      Its really difficult to answer that question as the 2.5l has been around since 1995 with multiple versions of both Head gaskets and cylinder head configurations, each with its own unique set of circumstances and reasonings behind a potential HG issue.

      I read his post and some of the comments that follow and can tell you there are a lot of opinions and some hit on part of the issues, but still only speak from generally a narrow point of view.

      Ill start with the most common occurrence and that was the 1999 Forester and the 2000 to 2002 any model SOHC 2.5l that led to the WWP-99 campaign initiated by Subaru. That actually pointed to a gasket comprised of material that was not up to the environment it was subjected to. Mostly contaminated oil and coolant. The coolant conditioner put in was to avoid a massive warranty situation aimed at slowing down the ones that leaked coolant under pressure VS the ones that dripped some passive oil leaks. Two days ago our Shop was tagged on Facebook by a great customer who reached 300k in her 2000 Subaru Outback, guess what we have still never done to her car, thats right the head gaskets, they do at this time leak oil, but still never coolant. We see her in every 3000 miles for oil changes and change the coolant every 2 years, we have maintained her battery and primary electrical system and serviced the entire car per our suggestions. I will be honest and tell you we have only a small hand full of stories like this, in fact most 2000 Outbacks we service we have already replaced the head gaskets some at mileages closer to 60,000.. Why did hers hold up so well, the gasket was never really exposed to the same conditions other drives had experienced in only a few short years. So in this example its part gasket, part Subaru for incorrectly predicting how well the gasket would hold up, part gasket maker (Nippon Reinz) for not also understanding the material and lastly part Ownership issue. I can by a pair of Nikes, and you can by a pair of Nikes and we can both walk the same amount of miles and I promise you that in one years time my shoes will be shredded while your may still be very much intact and use full. This is based on use and this is the single most difficult thing to try and get across to someone especially someone who thinks your just trying to get them to come in more often for oil changes, when the dealer is telling them do it every 7000 miles.

      We don’t all use our cars the same way and as such we cant all maintain them the same way, even an inferior gasket if over a long period of time is not exposed to contaminated oil and coolant may last the life of the car, that same gasket constantly exposed to fuel contaminated oil and coolant with excessive ph levels will fail.

      The H or Boxer engine in a Subaru can be more prone to HG failures over a inline or V design when the following factors are found; Contaminated oil, contaminated coolant, excessive infrequent trips or prolonged slow moving commute times, incomplete drive or warm up cycles, Subaru trying to compete with or better yet compare with other models that push unrealistic ownership habits including the 7000 mile oil change or the 100k coolant intervals, poor quality fuel and all of this based around an archaic internal combustion engine that if stripped form the multitude of sensors and monitoring systems we have put on it to try and make the inefficient, efficient and the dirty, clean would be almost as dirty as it was in its infancy.

      In one of the posts in the link a poster mentions the reverse flow as it pertains to the location of the thermostat in response to the original poster and mentions its done for temperature. The part thats missing is that the modern engine is ran up to its operating temperature just as quickly as possible as mandated by the EPA so the car lessons the impact on the environment, but in doing so the rate of Expansion is so great from a very cold engine in the dead of winter that this also has an affect on the life of the gasket what makes this situation even more critical is the use of aluminum blocks and heads aimed at lowering weight to increase fuel economy while at the same time speeding up the expansion process. So someone that lives in a cold climate, using the vehicle to commute short distances but taking a while to cover the distance due to traffic will never see the same life out of a set of Headgaskets that some one in a milder climate who drives at freeway speeds most of the time. Whats to blame, the gasket, the car maker, the driver, the EPA, the oil companies, society or a combination of factors. Subaru could probably ask the suppliers to step up their game, but drivers should also understand maintaining a car based on how they use it, rather than listening to blanket statements, we should really look into Natural gas more as a society and fix multiple issues in doing so.

      The desire to not spend $ on maintenance has brought on an era where we see many mechanical engine failures that we only saw on an occasion in the last decade, we now replace engines due to low oil levels on a weekly basis. So ownership habits have in fact changed.. But we cannot blame all owners for every head gasket issue that occurs because thats not realistic or factual. Not all Subaru models have Head gasket issues such as the Turbo models, they have different gaskets but also different owners in many cases such as the STI owned by the enthusiast who probably changes the oil more then they need to, I know thats what I did when I was young and in love with my car.

      Here is what I believe, head gaskets will fail for a combination of factors and generally not because of any singularity.

      I think overall Subaru builds a good car and some will hate it when the HG fail, others wont care as they still love their Subaru, some wont ever experience the issue, but even more that do will look for the one reason it occurred, I am here to tell you there is not just one.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  178. I’ve been driving Subarus most of my life.
    I will never drive anything else due to the excellent durability and all wheel drive.

    How many Subarus have the above unhappy owners had? One or Two?
    I’ve had 14 in the family still have 3. I’ve only done a headgasket repair twice. Both times on a Forester. My wifes current 2002 Outback Limited had them changed before we bought it. Its at 191,000 miles now and counting.

    Maintenance is the key to keeping a car for more than 200k. I do all my maintenance at slightly lower intervals than the owners manual recommends and its worth it.

    I did own other cars before, Dodge Neon, Mazda 323, VW Jetta TDI. All of these cars had more problems than any subaru I’ve owned.

  179. Justin,
    Thanks for your time and expertise. It is great to get the facts from someone who knows the facts. I have spent enough time on auto forms to know that anyone who says the following; “My XYZ broke down, and this is the worst vehicle ever, and I will only get ABC from now on, this is the last XYZ I will ever own.” is an idiot. All cars are machines people! All machines require maintenance, and all machines break down. Anyhow, you are more patient and diplomatic with these people than I would be.
    My sister is selling their 1999 Outback with 107,000 miles on the ODO that they’ve owned since it was new. They have taken pretty good care of it – oil changes and the like, but it also has the well documented Speedometer and Odometer intermittently working issue (which I can fix), so I’m not sure how many miles it actually has. They are selling for $1,700 and it is in fair shape. So far there is no sign of the head gasket going bad, so maybe it wouldn’t be an issue. My question is; what is your best estimate of these Gen 1 engines that experience the head gasket failure? If it is a low percentage (Maybe 10% or 20%?), then I think I will buy the Outback from my sister. Even if the gasket needs a replace for an additional $2,000 I think we could drive this car for a year or two and still break even or maybe even slightly ahead. What are your thoughts?

    1. Hello Jared,

      Thanks for the kind words.

      I think a 1999 Outback with 107k ish is a great find! We still have a few customers over 200k with no HG issue as of yet, bet the majority have had them replaced either by us or somewhere else, I would say 70% if I had to try and peg a number by 200k.

      If you own that car for 10 years at the $1700 purchase and put the 2000 into hg you will still have very low ownership costs for every mile you drive it. Even factoring ongoing costs of ownership.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  180. Wow. Many posts from unhappy people. I’m posting to represent to other side of the story. My relevant Subaru experience: currently driving a 1999 Forester; one of three I’ve owned including a 1984 4wd wagon and 2010 Forester my wife drives.

    The original head gaskets (HG) and clutch in the 1999 made to 202,000 miles (yes, 202,000 miles). The only reason I replaced the HG at that time was because I had the engine out to replace the clutch so it was a good time to do the HG too. This car is not and has not been babied. Daily commuter, 100 mile round trip. Driven frequently through all road conditions from rutted, pot-holed dirt (I live on a dirt road) to city traffic to long, high speed miles on Alaska’s crappy “highways”. Always parked outside and driven in harsh weather including deep snow and temps down to -25 degrees F frequently in winter. Oil changed when it was convenient–lying on your back in the snow, holding cold wrenches at 10 degrees F or colder is no fun. Through my ownership, other than the HG (at 202K miles) I have only replaced normal wear items: e.g. brake pads, struts, timing belt, and clutch. Currently my 1999 has 270K miles, is running strong, and still averages 26 mpg during the daily commute. My Forester is a damn good car.

  181. I have a question. My 2009 Legacy with about 18,000 miles on it just died on the highway the other day. Although I have had the oil changed since I bought the car new in ’09, I forgot to have it changed the last time I had the tires rotated, due to stressing over my boyfriend’s cancer diagnosis (he has one more surgery to go now). The local dealership (not the one where I bought the car in Montana) never moved it from where it was placed when I had it hauled in on a trailer. They say I need a $4200 repair and that i have voided the powertrain warranty by not having the oil changed. I still have a year’s worth of payments to make. Am I totally screwed?

    1. Hello Deb,

      Sorry to here about the life circumstances.

      I am also sorry to say this but yes, if you fail to maintain the Car and it fails as a result, you cant expect anyone to pay for that.

      Hope things improve for you and your boyfriend.

      Justin

    2. that is terrible ! just because of a missed oil change??
      I had a 06 outback, with only 32,000 miles ! was told it had head gasket seepage, front axle boot seepage , leaking tranny pan. No excuse for those issues on a like new vehicle.
      I traded it in and will never own another Subaru.

      1. Hello Ann,

        Sounds like your pretty frustrated.

        It appears you have a vehicle that sits a lot or is used to commute short distances as you are driving it 4500 miles a year. This can be the single hardest way to use a vehicle.

        The good news is that seepage does not mean thee are ANY repairs needed, so I am confused to why you are upset and even more confused by you trading in a vehicle that may have been paid for that someone else will drive to 300k, for a new debt burden or drop in savings balance. What are you going to do in 7 years when the new car is no longer new and some brings that to your attention? Based on how little you drive you should keep a car for 15 years minimum and keep your money in the bank, you will need it some day.

        I highly doubt the trans pan is leaking by the way, what I would have done first is find a good Subaru shop local to you, establish a relationship and let them tell you the cars actual needs.

        Your experience with your Subaru is only going to be as good as where you take it for service. This rings true for any car you own.

        Justin

  182. Hey Justin! I would like to add my sincere thanks for your wealth of knowledge, patience and generosity here. I’ve just read dozens of posts (and your replies) and am equal parts impressed with your kindness and bummed at some people’s lack of courtesy when receiving personalized, extensive, expert advice, for free and without leaving their home. Reading your replies, I have learned everything I needed to regarding my likely compromised head gasket on my 2004 Forester w/115K It’s had a few overheating issues over the years and this past weekend started a brief bit of shaking on start-up. My mechanic suspects head gasket and recommended an independent Subaru guy he knows. He quoted $1800 over the phone; incl head gasket, timing belt, H20 pump, etc.
    Meanwhile, I’m going to look on your forums for where to ask about a wiring issue.
    Thank you again!

    1. Hello Mike,’

      Thanks for the kind words, they mean a lot!

      What type of wiring issues are you having? Let me know what you think might be going on and if there is anything typical we see I will let you know.

      Justin

  183. Just wanted to say thank you for all the information here and your continual support to all the people! I feel better about my 03 outback HG leak. I was thinking of selling but it sounds like I can fix and keep it! somewhere about 100K miles, just purchased the thing, great shape!

  184. Hey Justin,

    I am considering buying a Subaru for the first time and ran across your sight. First of all to all the posters who are pissed about having to repair their cars- welcome to owning a car. They ALL have problems, I have owned,-BMW,Saab,VW new and old(15 aircooled),Jeep,Toyota,Chevy,International and Audi. THEY ALL HAVE PROBLEMS, different issues at different mileage. The worst I found were the BMW’s not my 71 2002 but the 2002 325 & the 2001 525. The cost of those repairs are insane. The best cars in my opinion were my aircooled VW’s, cheep and eazy to fix. But back to my question instead of my rant to the ignorant masses. I am looking at Foresters 99-03 w/ 99k-150k and the head gasket problem,solution and detection that you mention are great info. What else should I be on the look out for and are there any other common repairs,problems or issues I can expect w/ this model and milage? I am totally aware that ALL cars have issues and driving condition and upkeep are key, just lookin for a heads up. My daughter is on her second suby and loves it. I am sellin my 93 wrangler for a little more comfort. Thanks for takin you time to listen to unhappy people who should look at sights like yours before they buy a car instead of crying because they have to fix a combustable engine . I truly thank you for your insight. Nate

    1. Hello Nate,

      Your a breath of fresh air.

      The 1999 to 2003 will need the right rear wheel bearing replaced, but there is an updated kit that may have already have been done that seems to correct the issue provided its done properly.

      2003 can have an issue with the seat connector for the Air bag system, which there is a TSB and low cost repair kit for as well.

      While I would steer towards which ever car you like the best, I prefer the 2003 over 1999 to 2002 just based on interior lay out and the suspension seems to hold up a little better, even though there are not many differences.

      We don’t see to many Transmission issues but more so with the 1999 over the rest, all CV axles go through CV boots and that will also happen to the right front first followed by the left.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  185. Hey Justin. I have a 2000 Legacy that I have just replaced the water pump on. When the water pump was bad and leaking, it would overheat only when accelerating away from sitting at a dead stop. I saved up for a few weeks while still driving the car. In this time, the car began to run hot on the freeway – and blaring the heat would bring it back to normal. Now that I have replaced the water pump, the leaking has stopped – but it continues to overheat on the freeway (or any driving at all, really).

    The car doesn’t leak oil. It no longer leaks coolant. The thermostat is in working order. Radiator has been flushed and does not leak. Battery is clean as can be. Fans both work properly.

    Any insight on what could be going on?

    1. Hello Joe,

      Hind sight is generally 20/20 but the decision to drive it with a cooling system issue may have damaged the head gaskets, I realize you may have not had a choice and it was necessary to do so, but that’s most likely what occurred. If you did not use a Subaru thermostat that’s another possibility.

      Id start with smelling the Overflow bottle for any signs of an exhaust smell.

      -Justin

      1. No exhaust smell so far. I’ve read on forums that SOA issued a special conditioner to be added to the cooling system for phase II 2.5L models from ’99-’02 to prevent and correct head gasket leaks. I haven’t found this stuff yet. Have you used/heard of it? It should also be stated that when we took apart the overflow bottle, we found a large fist-sized chunk of gray crud that seemed like stop-leak or something. The consistency was that of really wet clay. Could that have been the previous owner using the SOA coolant conditioner?

  186. Hi Justin
    I recently replaced the head gaskets on my dad’s 2006 Outback 2.5i with 265,000 original miles and used the 6 star MLS gasket. Both heads went to a very good machine shop and were decked, new valve stem seals installed, 2 exhaust valve guides were starting to drop and were taken care of as well.
    the original HG lasted until 175k and were replaced by the subaru dealer which (surprise) only lasted 90k.

    The car ran GREAT for 2 days following the repair, like new. However it now has very little power and worse mpg. Highway mpg has dropped 5-6 mpg and the car struggles with passing and hills. No CEL or pending codes, no misfire or dramatic hesitation, just poor power.
    With my basic scan tools i can see that engine load is at 28 percent at idle in park and 30 percent in drive. There are no bubbles in coolant. Any ideas? i checked all sensors and intake for anything obvious i may have missed.

    Thanks!

      1. You were right, valves all slightly too tight, the timing belt tensioner had also failed since the re-install and the belt jumped 6 teeth. Odd, as i was very careful compress it slowly over several days and not too fast. (my dad didnt want a new tensioner) A few hours later all is well and the car has plenty of power (relative term i guess) and 30 mpg highway again.

        Thanks for the tip, cruising down the road with 268,000 miles now 🙂

  187. I found a good private car for sale and I’m interested in it. It’s a 2008 Legacy 3.0r with ~35k miles. the current owner and I made an appointment to take the car to a Subaru dealership to have it checked before making a deal. I didn’t really know about the common head gasket issue. Aside from the dealership’s inspection results, would anybody recommend me to go for it and make the purchase?

    1. Hello Salt,

      The 3.0l doesn’t really have a head gasket issue, especially the 2008. If you like that car that’s what I would go get, they are very nice to drive and very reliable.

      This is subject to it checking out during the inspection

      _Justin

  188. I have a ’97 Outback. Yes, there have been repairs along the way, including the blown head gasket when teh car had about 90K on it, although I think that I might have been partly responsible for that as I had gunned the engine a bit too much and did hear a rather loud pop when I let up on the clutch. Didn’t find out about the head gasket actually going though until about 6 mos later when I found I was going through an awful lot of coolant. And I’ve have gone through a lot of wheel bearings, and even a blown rear. I regularly write a check to my mechanic for $300 to put on my account whether it’s been in or not because I know that’s what it’s going to cost me this year. But the old battelwagon has 230K on it and after 16 years i figure that $300/mon is still far less than a car payment for a new one. And yes I’d probably buy another, although I really don’t care for the new style all that much. Almost as big and high as my Explorer, another car that’s treated me well BTW. If I wanted something as big as the Explorer I’d simply but one of those instead. I’d probably find a model year prior to that change But I figure I have another 100K and maybe 5 more years with the current one Maybe they’ll change back to something a more reasonable size by then.

  189. Hi Justin.

    I was trying to look around for a person like you to work on the used 1998 Subaru Forester L that I just bought for $3500. I thought I had found a reasonable deal considering the age and mileage of the car but after a few days my husband diagnosed that the car has a HG leak and now needs repair; it has all the symptoms related to HG leak. I called this one independent Subaru repair shop and asked for a quote over the phone and the man quoted me for $2100 for parts and labor. He said it included replacing the timing belts, water pump, and other parts I don’t remember; all the parts that he would have to remove to get to the HG. He said if I want to reuse the existing parts than the cost would be less. I asked him if he was going to remove the engine to fix the HG and he said “No” but he has to remove all the parts to get to the HG. He also said that if the “something” (cylinder or something I don’t remember) needs to be machined than there is additional cost to the $2100 he quoted me.

    My questions are: Does the price and description of the work sounds right? What are all the parts that he has to remove? Should I have him replace all existing parts with new parts while he is doing this? He is not removing the engine from the car to fix the HG, should I take it to his shop? Is it worth it to sink more money into a 15 year old Forester?

    About the car: It has only 117200 miles and the paint and interior are in good shape; it must have been parked a lot in the shades or cover. The car I bought has new tires, new battery, new radiator and thermostat in August 2012, new timing belts and a new water pump round 100000 miles.

  190. Im looking at a 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback LTD
    2.5 Liter 16V 5 Speed Manual
    Miles: 185,000 for $3300 with preemptively done head gaskets. Good deal, bad deal. Anything else I should be looking for?

    1. Hello Quinton,

      Sounds about right for the era and mileage. Maybe try to get a sense for how high the Clutch pedal engages, as that could be another expense, the higher up the more worn the clutch is.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  191. Hi Justin. Thank you for sharing your knowledge of Subaru, it is very educating. I live in Sacrament, CA, do you have a recommended mechanic/auto shop I can take my 1998 Forester (has 117300 miles on it) to have the head gasket issue fix?

  192. I just wanted to say thanks for posting this. It really helped me understand more about Subaru problems, it’s informative, easy to read, and I couldn’t be more grateful.
    I’m buying a Forester from a reputable Subaru dealership and they just discovered a leak in the head gasket–I’m trying to do my research to better understand the problem.

    I haven’t bought it yet–it’s an ’02 Subaru Forester with 84k miles on it and I’ve talked them down to $9,600. I can probably get a better deal, but I haven’t found anything comparable yet.

    Are there any questions about the head gaskets that I should address?

    Thanks again. 🙂

    1. Hello Tara,

      You can ask if they have been done, but you still need to have a prepurchase inspection performed or it may not be a very good deal if you get get stuck with repairs needing to be done soon after purchase.

      Justin

  193. Hi Justin,

    Great site! My wife’s Outback died and we are thinking about getting her a forester. I have read every post on here. My wife only drives max 6-7,000 miles a year. I have seen post saying that an old car with low mileage might be more prone to HG failure because you don’t get the temperature up enough to burn off the oil. With that being said if your wife doesn’t drive much whats my best option. Do we go pre-2004 for cheap maybe $4,000 – $5,000 with 150,000-160,000 miles. Or buy a 2004-2005(less chances of HG leak) for around $8,000-10,000 with around 100,000 – 130,000 miles. or should we just go big and get a 2010-2011(hopefully fixed HG problem) for $16,000-$17,000 with 20,000-30,000 miles. Struggling with this because we live in a small town and my wife might drive 15 miles day. It would take her more than 28 years to drive 200,000 miles.

    Thanks,
    Andy

    1. Hello Andy,

      I would buy whichever car you guys like the best provided it checks out okay after a prepurchase inspection performed by someone who is familiar with the make.

      $17,000 is a lot to spend to drive a limited number of miles, if you like your money in your savings account I would spend less, have it inspected and if a few years from now you replace the HG you will still be money ahead.

      Justin

  194. Hi Justin,

    I am an old type all round mechanic, no retired. My experience is mainly heavy building side, leaning to ward
    mining. And company fleets. Apprenticeship VW,Audi,Porsche
    in Germany. 1973 migrating to Australia. Starting at VW dealership, also working on Subaru and BMW. that was about @ 1975. Later retrained to work as a maintenance fitter and diesel mechanic. Just to give you an idea, that I know a little about mechanics. In Australia one has to do everything on the job. What I mean there is not to much specialising going on. But I had the chance to do a lot of engine rebuilds all kinds small and large. Now comes my
    point. On problem cylinder heads/blocks older equipment we
    used HYLOMAR, invented and used by Rolls Royce for head gaskets. I must say we had, nearly 100% success with the product depending on surfaces. Well then we used it on every engine, also at home on rebuilds and hot ups. I own a Subaru 2000 outback my self . At 75000 Km the left cylinder head started to leak. I was trying to get extended warranty like I was used to from Germany, but no luck. So I had it repaired. Being a mechanic one self, it hurt. Well I was told that Subaru has a special fix and the head gaskets will never leak. Actually I asked the repairer about HYLOMAR, OOO NO SIR. Well at 130000 km it started to leak again.
    Now my question is have you heard of HYLOMAR, and have you or some one you know used it on a Subaru???.

    Cheers, Gerhard

    1. Hello Gerhard,

      I am familiar with Hylomar its a good sealer for use in items such as the oil pan to engine block and in areas not under combustion pressure, it would not be suitable for use on an all aluminum engine in place of the Headgaskets due to the expansion and contraction rates in my opinion. I have never worked on a Rolls Royce and cant speak to the expansion and contraction rates of those engines. There is a limit to things we are really willing to try, and generally speaking sealers do not hold up well as a head gasket replacement.

      You sure could give it a try and see if in 70,000 miles from now its still sealing?

      Justin

  195. Hi Scott,
    thanks for all your helpful comments on this website.
    I have a question. I own a 2005 legacy outback with 165K miles on it. I maintain it well – oil changes, antifreeze, etc. Do you think I should think about replacing the head gasket in the next 20K miles or so as a preventative measure, so that I don’t end up somewhere on the road with a blown head gasket? Previously, I owned a 1997 outback with 200K miles before the gasket “blew.”
    Thanks again.
    Brent

    1. Hello Brent,

      The SOHC 2.5l in the 2005 will mostly develop external fluid leaks rather than fail internally also known as a blown head gasket like the 2st gen DOHC 2.5l did , there really is no reason to do them as preventative maintenance, just keep inspect them for fluid loss and replace as needed when needed.

      Justin

  196. Thanks for this most imformative website. I came here looking for information concerning head gaskets and the fact that I have now paid $2400 to have both replaced on my 2007 Outback wagon at 120k miles. This was done at the dealership and included the usual additional replacements done as a package. Of more concern is the fact that I had my daughter buy a 2009 Forrester as a new car and I am wondering if the ’09 is a model to be concerned about for premature HG failure? I’m hoping that the ’09 was after they had started with the upgraded HG as they love the car so far and have had no problem. They are at the point of making a decision about trading or keeping the car and projecting the cost of potential (likely) repairs.
    Thanks, Tom

    1. Hi Tom,

      The 2009 has the same gasket as the 2007. There are some other changes however and have not seen one in for failure as of yet and we have quite a few customers with high mileage as thats the norm around here..

      Justin

  197. Good Morning Justin,
    Very informative and interactive forum. Thank you!

    We just purchased our first Subaru, a new 2013 Outback with the 2.5i. We are very happy of the purchase.

    That said, I am currently looking for a second Subaru in order to allow my V10 powered daily driver pickup, more idle time.

    Are there any Subaru models/years/engine configurations which are better than others? Should I just look for a used Subaru which has the HG and rear axle upgrades done?

    Any insight / advice you can give for this newbie is appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Paul
    Ferndale, WA.

    1. Hi Paul,

      1995 to 11998 Impreza Outback sports have held up fairly well through the years, but will be hard to locate with any type of reasonable mileage. From there its really all about your budget dictating which era Subaru. I like the 2005 to 2009 Body Styles in the Legacy and Outback the best, but Like the 2000 to 2004 for the cargo area and overall simplicity. The 1995 to 1999 well most of those cars are still ok to buy but I just dont know your tolerance for service and repairs that it will need to most likely go through until its “your car” if you will.

      Finding a used Subaru needs to end with a pre purchase inspection by Someone who knows the car.

      Justin

  198. Just a sincere thanks for all the time and attention you have given to this site over the years. I am a new Subie (2006 Forester 2.5x) and will take your maintenance suggestions to heart and hope for the best. Again – thanks.

      1. First – one the subject of maintaining or replacing: – After 20 years of driving a Mercedes, the last 10 in my menopausemobile (SL320 convertible – so the young chicks can see my bald spot) – I was faced with the prospect of having to put about 5K into the car, including among other things, (you guessed it) a head gasket. The car was showing it’s age – the wiring harness was starting to cause problems with small stuff (like bulbs winking on and off as plastic connectors started to become brittle) – (aside: Mercedes decided that the wiring harness should biodegrade more easily – nice for the environment – bad for anyone who expects to drive the same car for more than a decade.) – The car had 165k miles and the Blue Book said it was worth $3,000 if I could call it’s condition “fair”. I’m not impressed with “modern” models, so I thought about going back to the 80’s – maybe a 300SD, but they’re only as good as their maintenance record, and not easy to find someone who’s documented their upkeep – and still willing to part with the car – so.

        I did my homework. I started by assessing my current needs (which have certainly changed over the last 10 years) – my budget (no debt) – and online and Consumer Reports reviews. A used Forester for less than 10K was the answer. What I needed was another 10 years and 100K miles for $1,000 a year.

        I found a Colorado 2006 Forester 2.5X with a 5 speed manual transmission and no doodads, with 37,700 miles (2 owners), service records, and no rust (I said Colorado didn’t I?) – for just under 10K (after tag and taxes). Note here that I found other Foresters selling for less, even newer ones, but none matching this car’s condition. I don’t mind paying for what I want.

        I inspected the car carefully – inside and out, and under. I smelled the oil and looked at the color of the brake fluid and the coolant. I inspected the brake and clutch pedals to see if the mileage was accurate. I squeezed the hoses and pressed the belt. I looked at tread wear. I counted the oil changes. One of the things I liked was that the owner had not had a chance to wash the car since arriving from Colorado, so everything (including the engine) was still covered with a fine layer of Colorado yellow dust. I could see from the fine rust on the front rotors that the car had not moved in a week and ground under the car was bone dry. From what I could inspect from the top, the engine was dry, the fluids were all where they should be and the battery was in good shape (without that red gunk on the terminals). I started the car and held my hand over the tail pipe (just enough water vapor to account for the time of day) Let it warm up for 10 minutes while I listened to the car, figured out where everything was, and watched to see where the temp gauge came to rest. The car started and drove like a new car. Nice and peppy for 2.5 litre. “Dumped” the clutch (does anyone know what that means nowadays?) It smelled like the old lady that owned it, and the fake fur car seat covers would have to go, but hey – you can’t have everything – right?

        And now (if you’re still with me) that the car and I have bonded – it’s time for a trip to the mechanic (more homework) and some baseline (and preventive) maintenance. Here’s what I have in mind:

        1.oil change – I figure when it’s up on the rack with the splash pan off, I can see (and maybe photograph – very high tech) the bottom of the heads and look for any sign if oil on that fine Colorado dust.

        2.Coolant change – just to be safe – and find out about the “conditioner” I’ve read about here.

        3.Replace hoses and belts and stick the old ones (nothing really wrong with them, they’re just old) in the trunk with the spare tire.

        4.Replace the air and fuel filters (and keep the old ones as spares)

        5.check brake pads.

        6.buy an air filter for the cabin (old lady smell) – I’ll replace that one after I’ve vacuumed and shampooed the interior.

        7.Buy a bottle of touch up paint for those nicks near the head lights

        8.check the freon level and add dye if it’s down at all (I’m in Florida and this is summer!)

        And now to seek some expert Justin advice:

        1.should I spring for a head pressure test as a baseline measure even if nothing looks suspicious?

        2.Should I have them inspect the timing belt? – if it’s a rubber belt, it’s been on there a while.

        3.Should I replace the plugs at this point?

        4.Anything I’m overlooking?

        PS: After selling the Benz, I figure I’m about even with putting the sales proceeds and cost of repairs into the new Subaru – except that now I’ve got another 10 years and a new set of downs to work with. Maybe not the chick magnet that the Benz was, but then again – neither am I!

        1. Hello Phill,

          Nice post!

          On the 2006, the head gaskets would start leaking oil and possibly coolant out externally , a visible inspection with the splash pan removed is all that’s needed to start with.

          If there are no timing belt service records than yes it should be inspected. Same thing with the lugs, and all fluids.

          Lubricating the hinges and locks should be added to the list, and I would buy a code scanner like the one we have linked to Amazon in the links side bar just in case the check engine light comes on and you want some advice or just want to know if its okay to drive..

          Hope that helps

          Justin

          1. just to update – found a one-legged ASE certified Subaru mechanic (who loves these cars and loves to talk about them) – who spends the week working on small aircraft and the weekend doing Subaru repairs in his driveway (beneath a shade tree of course) – Got to be the first eyes on the underside of the splash pan and found it still covered with a fine layer of dry Colorado dust – and the bottom of the heads look like they did when they came from the factory – dry as a bone. All baseline repairs done – including timing belt. Lots to be learned from watching a good mechanic work. I learned that 1,000 miles = 1 month. – So 105K miles = 105 months. So the timing belt was really only about a year early. Great way to spend a Saturday morning.

  199. Hi Justin,

    I a looking to replace my 2000 Outback (I am original owner) with a late model Outback (2011 or 2012), or have also looked at the new Mazda CX-5 2.5L.

    If I go the Subaru route again, I am leaning toward the 6 cylinder as I have heard of so many problems and frustrations with the new CVT in the 4 cylinder cars.

    1. Is the head gasket problem still an issue with the late model Outbacks? Was there a year in which Subaru started using different/better gaskets in their new cars?

    2. Are there any other chronic mechanical issues you have been seeing with the 2011/2012 Outbacks to be aware of? any different issues with the 6-cyl vs. 4-cyl?

    3. Any thoughts on reliability and chronic issues with the late model Mazda’s (no CVT with the CX-5, but 6-speed automatic).

    Thanks for your input. btw…if you know of anyone, or would be interested in purchasing my 2000 Outback, let me know. 110,000 miles, 1-owner, all maintenance records, does have beginning of HG leakage that needs to be addressed and could use new shocks/struts, but otherwise has had all needed updates/major and minor services/parts replaced (i.e. new brakes, timing belts, plugs, CV half axles, great tires, immaculate interior). I’m located in SW Idaho. And yes I can tell from your responses to previous postings, you probably think I’m crazy to trade/sell it 🙂

    Cyndi

    1. Hello Cyndi,

      The 2010 to 2013 Outback 2.5l use a semi closed deck block and MLS Head Gaskets, so far no known repetitive HG issues.

      We own a 2012 H6 model, and so far so good but its only two years old.

      I have driven the CVT and once you get used to it its not bad, just different, and you can only get the CVT with the 2.5I.

      Because you didn’t start out with “I do not think its worth it”, or “it just does not make sense to put $2500 in a 13 year car, it would be much better to spend 35k on a new one”, I would never call you crazy, lol.

      If after 13 years your ready to buy another car and your in a good place in life to where that makes sense, by all means do it, I am sure you deserve one. Its when there’s some sort of a question as to the financial sense of it all, do I try to point out whats going to cost the least.

      Me, because I want to retire before I die and would like to take some vacations so with the exception of needing to own a newer vehicle to dissect for product knowledge, I am in fact an advocate of no car payments and maintaining whats already paid for. Sometimes emotions get the better of us and we make big decisions that affect us for the next 6 years it happen to our customers locally and really just try to pass that info along.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  200. Hi
    have a subaru outback 2007 model purchased in Norway.
    wonder if it is the cylinder head gaskets The differences in U.S. and Europe?

  201. Re: 5/20 post
    Justin, I said I would send you the follow-up. Well, you told me so. I let my mechanic have at it and he did a nice HG repair – even did the timing belt, replaced the t-stat, checked for cracks, checked across the head for a warp, and put everything back together and it ran fine – for a day and 1/2. Then it started blowing off coolant through the overflow, and heating up. Something is not well in sticksville. It’s back at the shop but I am not optimistic. He feels bad and even offered to give us credit equal to the cost of the repairs ($1,380) toward a van we were considering buying from him. I assume it’s a crack in the block that he missed but I expect if we do take him up on the credit offer and we dump the car on him, he will pull the engine again and take it apart to see what happened.
    Anyway, it’s only the 3rd high mileage Subaru that has died on us, out of about 11 in the last 33 years, so I expect we will shop for another used one – newer than a 2003. Thanks for being there to hand hold us through the occasional trials of Subaru ownership.

    Gibby

  202. Hi Justin:
    A few months back I read the entire website to read about the head gasket topic as my 1999 Outback Impreza had failed.
    I don’t remember, is it possible for the head gasket to fail without any of the signs such as contamination in the coolant? I’m sure I read this but don’t remember.
    I am going to look at a 1997 Impreza Outback tomorrow to potentially buy. The seller says one of the fans is out and it overheats on long trips. I didn’t think it would be anything more than replacing the fan but now wonder if the headgasket is going. I’ll be trying to check out the coolant tomorrow. I wish there were a trustworthy Subaru mechanic around here, but it’s the inner city.
    Thanks for the great website, I wish I were near your garage!

  203. We have a 2003 Forester with 75,000 miles on it, and just found out that there is a leak in the left head gasket. I have a few questions about the repair:
    Should we have both head gaskets replaced while the car is taken apart?
    Should we replace the timing belt at the same time?
    Is this a repair best done by the dealer? We live in NJ.

    Thank you for all of the information on your site. It has been very helpful.

    1. Hi Pat,

      Both sides really should be done and if you replace the timing belt and components you will lower your forward going ownership costs.

      As to who should do the repair it would be best to have it done by an Independent Subaru Repair shop.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  204. Justin,
    I have a 2002 Subaru Forester that had head gaskets replaced for $2000 and approx. 600 miles on the way home it started to overheat. Stopped to have thermostat replace in case shop didn’t and car was driven around town and diagnosed as fine. Start driving car and approx. 10 – 20 miles at highway speed the car overheats again. Stopped again at another shop said it was fine except for coolant being pushed out of overflow and being a little low.
    Several shops have looked at it and said can’t be head gaskets. I disagree because I see bubbles in coolant from top of radiator.
    Take to a certified AAA shop and they think it is the water pump cavitating and that is what is causing this overheating problem. Have you ever seen this be a water pump problem? I believe it is more of an issue with the combustion gases are being pushed into cooling system. I need a certified mechanic with experience to comment. Thank you!

    1. “I need a certified mechanic with experience to comment. Thank you!”

      No you need a Subaru Technician to look at the car. There are no comments that will diagnose or repair the car from here, only someone local to you.

      Justin

      1. Have you ever heard of a Subaru having problem with cavitation that wasn’t caused by air bubbles from combustion gases?

        1. So I have seen air bubbles in the cooling system, and have in fact replaced waterpumps for worn impellers, leaks, noise, flow issues etc. In the right set of circumstances a improper or worn water pump impeller can create a cavitation like set of circumstances. Id like to mention its a very rare set of circumstances.

          Still don’t know if that’s what your car needs however.

  205. Hello Justin and Forumites,

    We are a family considering replacing our 13-year old car with a new Subaru. Our hearts want a 2013 Subaru Outback or Crosstrek…but our brains want us to go with a Honda or Toyota because of their amazing reliability record.

    Can you comment (yet) on whether the newer Subaru engine is really showing fewer issues with the head gaskets? Are there any other common repairs that are coming in with the newer cars? We keep cars for a long time so reliability is key for us.

    Thanks – this is a GREAT resource for potential buyers by the way – well done everyone.

    1. Hi Rebecca,

      The truth about what the current models need wont be known for some time, this is true of any make.

      Toyota owns 20% Of Subaru, most of the parts in a Honda, Toyota and Subaru are all made by the same companies.

      Buy what you like the most, whats the most comfortable, what suits your needs. As what the car may need just wont be known for some time to come.

      Justin

  206. I had a 1995 Subaru that I loved. I was planning to replace it with another Subaru until I heard about the head gasket problem. Has Subaru changed the design or fixed the problem, and if so what year Subarus have the new head gasket?

  207. I found out yesterday that my ’03 outback with 164k miles has blown head gaskets. I brought it in because it was getting hot at idle (never got in the red and only happened a few times). The Dealer says it is leaking oil too.

    They want $2900-3500 to fix it. No way am I spending that much on a car with that kind of mileage…just too many other things that could easily fail in the next year or so…tranny, AWD, AC, water pump etc. SO…

    I am either going to patch it and drive it until the engine seizes or sell it on craigslist for $1500 to someone who wants the parts.

    My question is…the dealer says it also needs a radiator cap and hoses. What are the odds that I can stave off the overheating by fixing the cooling system and adding some sort of stop leak.

    1. Ill buy it right now for $1500.

      Stop leak in the long run will ruin the car.

      The estimate is too high, you should replace the water pump with a HG repair, the trans should go 150k, as should the AWD.

      Why live in fear? Its how “they” talk you into spending 30k you dont need to.

      Justin

  208. Hey Mike

    few questions I just bought a 1996 Outback with a 2.5L (I think I have not brought it home yet)….

    It has 350,000km with a little blue on start up…But for $800.00 with summers and studded winters it will work us.

    No idea if the head gaskets are done not too worried about it..

    Few question:

    1) WARM UP I assume this is as important as all other motors (brought up not to race a motor until temp gauge up) *I have 200,000km on my Mitsubishi Delica 4D56T diesel which also known to blow head gaskets and nice slow warm up no problems yet…

    2) Eventually when I pull the motor to rebuild it (myself) what head gaskets for a 1996 2.5? What radiator fluid (conditioner)? any tricks (special head bolts, mods, torque (other than spec),retorque?)

    Thanks for your advice…

    I must say I do like the engineering in the car for the few minutes I looked under it….

    1. Morning Peter!

      For expert advice, you’ll have to ask Justin because I am definitely not a certified mechanic, just curious and intrigued by the whole thing. I do believe warming up was a good idea in the older days when blocks were solid cast iron, heads aluminum, valves were pushed, ball bearings had not yet been invented and it would take a long time to get everything brought up to operating temperature so that all the plays between parts were optimized because of the differences in materials and quantities used. Nowadays with most everything big being aluminum except the smallish parts, overhead valves with automatic adjustments, fuel injection, computers etc… I’m not sure it is necessary. Aluminum is one of the fastest transmitter of heat and most of the Subaru’s engine is aluminum save the crankshaft. I would follow Justin’s advice in changing the cooling fluid more frequently as it may have an important role in corroding the HGs (Justin dixit). I don’t know what Subaru recommends but I know there are coolants specifically designed for aluminum blocks, could it be that people who have HG problems early have at some point used water or standard coolant because it is cheaper or had nothing else on hand??? HG designers must know what they are doing but maybe something is also lost in the translation once it gets fabricated, hence getting HG with a good reputation even though they might be a little more expensive at first is a safer route. I take it for granted the tightening sequence and torque is correct coming from the manufacturer and not the cause for premature HG failure but I could be wrong.
      Regarding diesels, I have a 2004 Ford F250 (6.0l engine) and if I don’t wait for it to warm up, minimum temperature on the transmission temperature gauge that is, since in the morning I start a real steep uphill, I know the truck is not happy when I can barely take off and the turbo cannot really kick in. So what you say rings true. If I warm up a couple minutes, it’s better and if I’d wait even longer I’d never go to work… So two minutes will do and I go easy for a while until warmed up. We never have snow here but if we had, there is no doubt in my mind that all cars would have to be warmed up before being stressed. Diesel engines need very high pressure at compression and temperature (glow plugs) to function as designed. The pressure will always be there by design but definitely not the temperature at start up. Pressure at the time of explosion must be tremendous so I rule it out as a cause of premature HG failure on any engine. If it were so, I believe the engine would still be in the design stage. Failure due to electro chemical corrosion and/or different rate of expansion due to different heat transfer coefficient between the various materials used remains the most probable cause for HG failure from what I have read everywhere. Any automotive engineers out there who can shed some light on the subject?

      I believe your diesel survived because you took good care of it and warmed the engine before using it. Maybe Subarus should be warmed up after all…

      My two cents worth.

  209. Thank you Justin for your help and being such a sport with the irreverent few and taking the time for giving a maximum of detailed information. I’ve read your blog for a couple hours and must command you on your keen sense of business and the calm you maintain when you reply to some outrageous comments left. Besides having learned a couple things for my next Subaru HG project, I have learned from your always positive attitude as well, thank you!
    How can you be on a Subaru blown head gasket blog and find anything else than, well let’s face it, unhappy Subaru owners having a car with blown head gaskets?
    Well, for a change I’ll be different: I’m a happy Subaru owner with a problem of blown head gaskets!
    Emotional decisions do benefit someone, I picked up a very nice used Subaru and will be changing the head gaskets myself! I believe I’m a decent enough Sunday mechanic… and will end up with a very nice car with 114K miles under $2,000. I’m sure if you stand near the service department of any dealership, you will find a line of their cars every Monday morning and for any car manufacturer at that!
    I wonder what the average mileage is expected on a Subaru before having to replace head gaskets and is it unrealistic to hope for a Subaru (or any car) to not blow a head gasket within the first 90K miles though? Because of its nature, nobody with a Subaru that blows its first head gasket at 300K, if it ever happened, will ever comment on your blog. From your experience, is it possible to own a Subaru and not have to experience HG failure before let’s say, 200K miles? Are the posters on your blog the few unlucky ones or is it a common occurance? From reading your posts, I deduct you expect 150K miles from a new set of HGs installed properly and maintained adequately.
    I agree with your explanation about the corrosion of head gaskets due to electrical current flow in the coolant even though I have never been aware of it in a car, boats are a good example of severe electro chemical corrosion and I will keep an eye on that.
    On the other hand, you have written on the subject of the head gaskets being in contact with coolant at all times as a possible cause of corrosion and that other types of engine (without horizontal cylinders), do not have coolant in contact with the HG at all times because the level of coolant goes below the HG after cool down. Am I wrong to think that all modern liquid cooled engines by design have coolant in contact with the head gaskets at all times because they are supposed to not have any air (void) trapped in the head or the radiator and that the expansion canister is there for that specific purpose with its low and high levels to compensate for coolant volume variations, that the canister along with the radiator filler cap have their top always placed higher than the head and that on any engine, there are various bolts to loosen to make sure there is no void after re-filling the cooling system?
    But I do need your help and here are my real questions:
    I will be replacing HGs on a 2003 EJ25 engine (water pump, timing belt and tensioner) and after looking at your videos, I see that the cylinders sort of “float” in coolant as if the cylinder sleeves are not part of the block, what you refer to as an open deck engine block. That looks like a very small surface of contact to get a proper seal. Is it a smart idea to spray the HG with something like a HG spray? Because of the open deck type, I imagine most of it will dissolve in the coolant but wouldn’t that extra “glue” where the HG gets pressed between two metal surfaces help and reduce the possibility of future leaks, be it burnt gases, coolant or oil?
    It appears that being of the “Not Torque to Yield” kind of head bolts, I’ve read in many posts and answers, they don’t need replacement, unless in case of extreme over heating but my instinct tells me the exact opposite: “Torque to Yield” bolts work within the elasticity of the bolt and can be re-used because they always go back to their original shape and “Not Torque to Yield” bolts go past the elasticity of the metal, stretch and therefore should be replaced each time. How can you tell if they need replacement, if the car I bought wasn’t driven by me when it happened and do they need to be changed? I will be checking the heads for possible cracks and warp as well but in doubt, I am inclined to change the bolts. It cannot hurt.
    And finally, thanks for all the help!

    1. Hello Mike,

      Thanks for the post.

      While its true other makes may have coolant in contact wit a gasket it will not be on top of a gasket using gravity as a contributing factor, this is not a big deal if the coolant is in good condition but as it breaks down and becomes corroded it will slowly over time degrade the material on the gasket.

      The cylinders are cast into the engine block.

      As far as what chemicals to use it depends on which gasket you are using, we sell a the Six star gasket and provide a repair guide when you buy from us it is not suggested to use any chemical on the gasket surface. They key to a good repair is the prep work and the proper torque procedure and timeliness of that torque procedure.

      It doesn’t hurt to replace the bolts especially if you are unable to check for thread stretch.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  210. Hi Justin,
    Just wondering what your thoughts are on a well maintained/very few issues 2003 Subaru Forester X AWD that has 340,000 kms on it? It has a small gas leak at the top of gas tank and the alternator may soon need to be replaced. The current owner has had it since 2005 and has not had to replace anything (timing belt,head gasket etc.) and is asking $2500.
    Thanks and enjoyed reading your article & posts,
    Riley

    1. Hello Riley,

      The Gas tank thing is a bummer, The Km’s don’t scare me but the fact that it hasn’t had a timing belt is a concern.

      There is also by the way no such thing as a small gas leak, it either leaks or doesn’t and any fuel leak is dangerous in the right circumstance, that would be my first concern to address followed by accessing when the timing belt was last done.

      Buying a car for $2500 and having the belt brake shortly after will leave a sour taste in your mouth.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  211. I have 2003 Subaru Legacy wagon with 73,941 miles. Check
    engine light came on. Mechanic said the head gasket is blown, is leaking at back of left cylinder head-cylinder 2 misfire. This Subaru has caused me a lot of grief. For years rain has come into the cargo area & wheel well. I had it repaired at Pence Subaru twice & it still is leaking. I don’t want to pay for it again and still have the leak so I pile towels back there. Had to replace the AC 2 years ago. I’m now retired & in late sixties. Don’t want another problem car. Do not want another Subaru. Thanks for listening! Mary 5-26-13

  212. Justin, enjoyed reading all the info on Forrester HG problems. Mine is a 2001, had its first HG repair at 60,000, then again in another 45,000. I whined a lot and the dealer that did the original repair cut me some slack on the second repair. Now, at 160,000 miles I am looking at HG repair #3. I give up. I live in rural Alaska, need the AWD and ground clearance. I am going to look for a 1-2 yr old car and if I can’t find one get a new car. What would you suggest?

    1. Hello Joy,

      I don’t think you will make three HG repairs to a 2011 to 2012 Subaru Outback, there have been a lot of changes and based on your needs it seems like that’s what makes the most sense.

      I know the HG thing can be a bummer, but if I lived in Rural Alaska Id want no other car other than the Subaru. I am sure that the 2001 has never left you stranded, that’s what I would worry about the most if it was me.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  213. Hi Justin,

    My 2002 Forester has developed the dreaded left side head gasket oil leak at 126k. I have a quote from an independent shop here in SF to replace the gasket for about $1000. I think you pretty much answered this question above, but should I consider replacing both gaskets even though it will be considerably more expensive? And should I insist on the engine being removed? (I assume my quote is for a repair with the engine in place, although I will ask.) I love the car and planned to keep it forever…but my girlfriend and I are likely to get married in the next year, sell both our cars and downsize to just one (maybe a Subie haha). Thanks for your site, it is fantastic, very informative and interesting reading.

    1. Yes, on the engine coming out.

      Yes on both sides.

      No on letting anyone repair it that wants to do it any other way.

      I am sure if doctors were paid the exact same way Techs were they may defer to a chainsaw to perform surgery as it would be quicker, but id still look for the one that uses a scalpel in the event I needed repairs.

      Justin

  214. Just traded my 2006 Subaru Forester (64,000 miles) for a Honda Model. Loved my Forester – but got a quote for a $3,000 head gasket repair and almost fell of the chair.

    My faith in the Subaru is gone and I also will never buy a car from this dealer anymore either. They seriously reduced the trade in value by a lot because of this. Well, they lost me as a customer (which I was for about 10 years).

    Have a feeling, this could have been prevented or at least it seems early to have such a problem. I did my oil changes every 3k miles, did every inspection and followed every single repair advise.

    So disappointed in the car and the dealer. Sorry for the rat – just still upset – wish I would have been warned and I could have paid attention myself. Had no clue.

  215. We have a 97 outback legacy. Had it in the shop this week because of a weird vibration in back(you only hear it on the freeway when decelerating). Mechanic checked it out said the tires were separating and needed an alignment. Took it to the tire and alignment store. They said tires were fine and not separating. They did an alignment and re balanced the tires. Haven’t been back on the freeway yet hope that took care of the problem. Any thoughts if the vibration noise is still there? Also when I came to pick up the car he told me about the HG issue and encouraged us to fix it before we had a problem we are at 166k . No mention of oil in the coolant reserve. Seems like an expensive repair for a maybe issue. Thoughts?

    1. If the Vibration is still there the first Tech might be right.

      Its better to address the HG prior to it overheating, but not if they show no early signs of failing.

      Justin

  216. Greetings Justin,
    Our 2001 Outback with 120k miles just bit the dust. Some minor problems were occurring: a little hesitation once or twice, then it stalled at a light, but started up, a little rough. I took it to the mechanic the next morning and the only suggestion was install a new crank shaft and cam shaft sensor. The computer didn’t show anything. But the next 15 mile run ended with it stalling, steaming, and a red lined temp gauge. The HG had blown and dumped all the coolant on the limited access highway. My options are: replace the HG, replace the engine with another 2001- 2.5, with perhaps the same problem, or look for a newer-than-2003 Outback. Any suggestions? Thanks.

    1. Hello Gibby,

      I am confused about the cam/cranks sensor thing because of a overheat event?

      So it sounds like maybe the HG was failing, some coolant made its way into the cylinders and because water is not all that flammable the car had some symptoms. Then after the internal HG was misdiagnosed it was ran to the point where it stopped?

      My suggestion first of all is to not let the shop that missed the internal HG failure anywhere near it, if that can be done the engine should come out and be accessed as best as possible, a Subaru that overheats severely can in fact damage the oil control rings so the risk in making HG repair is that it may use some oil in between oil changes, which to me is not the end of the world but to others a big deal.

      I would never ever ever ever install a used engine with out taking it a part and replacing the head gaskets.

      I would not spend $ on a 2003 you already have the same car, just repair what you have even if it means a reman shortblock, and some work to your heads and costs $4500. That’s the single best way to handle your situation in my opinion, this advice will cost the least amount of money, makes sense if you still like the car which seems like that is the case if you were thinking about a 2003 Outback.

      Putting money int a car you already own will impact your back account the least out of any other option other than taking the Bus.

      Justin

      1. Thank you Justin. Your feedback is very much appreciated. I will go ahead with replacing the HG.
        Yes it’s hard to find a good diagnostician (same with doctors’ diagnoses), especially out here in sticksville. However, I trust my mechanic fully. So that if he says he can replace it, I believe him. (Surprisingly, I have a lawyer I can trust too, so there is something to be said about sticksville.)
        I will let you know how we make out.
        Overall, we have had very few major problems with our Subarus, and though I wish some engineer had done a better job in the first place, as you said, the HG problem is just a bump in the road

  217. Hello I purchased a 1992 Subaru SVX from someone online. The car was converted to a 5 speed manual. It has a transmission out of a 1996 Subaru legacy with a JDM gear set in it. Anyhow the car needs a transmission mount and I would like to know would I need to get a transmission mount for a 1996 Subaru legacy, Or I am thinking that the car has a modified mount due to the fact the Subaru SVX never came with a manual transmission. Also how many transmission mounts come in a SVX? The car currently has 140,000 mile I would like to know what would a be a good motor oil to use in the SVX? Also what kind of Anti freeze is good to use in that car?

    1. The SVX never came with a manual so you cant order the mount for that application. Most likely you need to order a trans mount for a 1996 Standard trans, but because I wasn’t involved in the swap nor do I have the car here its tough to answer that with any real certainty.

      Justin

  218. I’m on my 4th Subaru with no major issues or complaints, now looking to find a used Sub for the granddaughter who will be going to college in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula. I’ve just become aware of the HG issue, and wondering what to look for when looking at potential purchases. So far from the site to check for oil scum in the coolant, crud on battery, signs of oil leaks below the heads – anything else? I have an independent shop which I trust, and will have them do a pre-purchase inspection for which they charge $50. I consider that reasonable, just want to eliminate obvious problem candidates before paying it.

    thanks

    tim

  219. Hi Justin,

    Thanks for the advice and information that you provide.

    I had the HG replaced in June 2012 on my 2004 Outback 2.5L after I found oily residue in the coolant reservoir and loss of coolant with no visible leaks. When I took it in, the dealer identified the problem as a leaking HG and did the work (with some other recommended items since the engine was apart) for under $2K.

    I took the car back to the dealer today (about a month before the warranty runs out) as the coolant reservoir is developing a film and it is again loosing coolant with no visible leaks. The dealer checked it out for an hour and said that it is not a HG leak.

    My questions are:
    1. Exactly what test do they do to determine that it was a HG leak the first time and not a HG leak the second time?
    2. If it is not an external leak, where else could the coolant be going? (Has a new cap and cannot find cracks on reservoir or hoses)
    3. Can an internal leak be determined by pressure testing the coolant system after the engine cools off?
    4. Is it reasonable that the symptoms would be slow to reappear once the coolant system is cleaned and and if the leak remains small? (lost about a pint in 4000 mi)
    5. Is there anything I might do now before the warranty runs out to insure that this could be covered after it does run out in case the dealer is trying to delay past the warranty period? (Yeah, I’m feeling a little suspicious.)
    6. Is it worth taking to another dealer in town for a second opinion?
    7. Do I just keep adding coolant and driving it? (what the dealer recommended)
    8. I asked to have the parts that were replaced and, now having looked at your web site, didn’t see the silver areas on the gaskets that you identified. Could they still have been leaking?

    1. Hi Zig,

      First of all yes I think you should seek a second opinion, the 2004 Outback should almost never have a failure internally, that would be the least common way for it to leak, a exhaust gas analyzer seen here https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gaskets-problems-explained-part-ii/ is the only real way to test for a internal failure. Internal failure is possible but its also possible there is just a small coolant leak, and because you have a splash pan nothing is showing up on the ground, a pressure test may help find a leak but not a internal HG leak.

      Because you have an undiagnosed symptom and a warranty about to expire, its my suggestion that you look for a reputable independent Shop and let them have a look.

      The last thing you want to ignore is this minor symptom.

      One of my best friends is a Roofer, to them there is no such thing as a small leak, it either leaks or it doesn’t. In all actuality the same thing does apply to your car, it either leaks or it doesn’t.

      I will add however–

      Its common to need to add a cup of coolant in between oil changes done every three months due to evaporation, but if the loss is more than that something is being overlooked, 1 pint is 2 cups and that seems a bit high, because I cant view the car i just cant speak with absolute certainty.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

    2. I have been a Subaru tech for 35 years…Its very unusual to see a 2.5l single cam getting oil in the reservior..I dont think that i have seen 3 since they started the single cam in 99…It was very common with the quad cam 2.5 from 96-99..You could possibly have a small crack somewhere in one of the heads…Ive probably done 300 headgasket jobs to date over the years

  220. This website is a joke. All you do is tell people that it’s totally worth it to replace the head gaskets on these subarus, while ignoring the fact that subaru has shown blatant disregard concerning their products. I like subarus, but the head gasket issues would have been avoidable using quality gasket material. Defend your company, but you can’t deny that this problem has gone on far too long.

    1. Wow thanks Josh!

      Thanks for telling me that all of the hard work I put in trying to truly help people I dont know is a joke. So the countless posts, articles and how to tips Ive provided for free since 2006 here is all just a joke to you. The you tube videos I record all just a joke. I cant tell you enough how much that motivates me to keep helping. By the way were you aware of the other posts on this site or do ya think the Hg article is the only one here?

      First of all I dont work for Subaru, I am independent. Second of all what I try to do is help those trying to make a tough financial decision about what to do with the car they already own. If you disagree with the advice thats fine but what gives with the insult to a mans hard work. What did you do today to help someone Josh?

      Here is a senario for you Josh.

      Someone has a 2002 Subaru Outback with 123k that has leaking Head gaskets, you know from your experience you have seen Outbacks that have had the repair end up in some cases with well over 300k on the chassis before the lower end of the engine gets to the point where it uses so much oil it fouls the spark plugs.

      The repair costs to do it right are ging to be $2300.

      To buy another AWD type vehicle with a good safety record is going to be $30,000 plus interest & higher full coverage insurance.

      You know because you work in the industry that while its true that many Subaru’s will develop a HG issue, that for the most part the rest of the car is pretty solid and very safe, you also know because you still have lots of friends in the industry and you contribute to IATN that you get a sense for what the rest of the cars go through whether its transmission in the case of the Volvo, as well as rotors that must be changed every brake service on the Volvo and Audi as well as the extensively high ownership costs of the Audi. You meet with other Shop owners and compare what their average customer spends on various makes and models your jaw drops when you see how much drivers spend on other makes, you retain that information and often call peers for advice on this friends or that friends non Subaru vehicle. You quickly learn about typical issues the other makes have and factor that information in when trying to advise those that seek your help. This could be your neighbors 2007 Dodge Ram with the Cummins thats having its head gasket replaced at the 87k mark and denied warranty due to an aftermarket exhaust system, or your in laws Toyota Tundra having its transmission replaced with less than 70,000 miles on the odometer only to learn its common place for both. You could go on here for days.

      Back to the 2002 Outback, they are a single income family and dont really have it in their budget for the repair and definitely cant afford car payments right now. You also know that better vehicles in terms of fuel economy are on the market now such as the 2012 Impreza but really a few more years should be given to the CVT transmission and new FB series 2.0l to really be able to “greenlight” it for everyone. You also know that some early stage Natural gas vehicles as well as breakthroughs in electric infrastructure for electric vehicles are also coming because you attend the industry meetings and classes put on by the Department of Ecology. So it seems advising to wait for better technology rather than a newer version of the same thing might make more sense.

      So is your advice to charge $2300 on their credit card and pay it off as soon as they can knowing as long as this is done right this car should go another 150k because you see it all the time, or do you suggests going $27,000 in debt assuming a $5000.00 trade in and tax? Well which is it? Is it a joke under this premis to suggest someone repair their car.

      You see this is what I deal with day in and day out, I live in the industry, and I have the privilege of knowledge that you just dont have. Your expertise is relegated to what you have read on a screen posted by someone else on some forum and the seething opinions you have formed are yours to form but you have done so without considering the options and then using a calculator instead you are stuck on this Damn Subaru HG thing is reprehensible they shouldn’t even sell cars. My advice about fixing what you have comes from a good understanding of what you own, and how money works. That constantly being in car debt just to avoid repairs is not sound advice its emotions speaking. And the pleasure of buying a new car and that smile on your face when you bring it home is almost as good as sex until well you have to pay for it.

      You come here because you found an answer to a search query but you have not completed the puzzle. If not the Subaru, than which car and what can you expect from that vehicle, what problems may it have, not this BS about my how 1992 geo metro sipped gas and I drove it 300k and never even changed the oil that becomes internet legend as its posted by anonymous folk on forums.

      Josh why dont you tell me with your vast automotive experience what you think should be the car of choice instead of the Subaru and post it here. It has to be at least 7 years old so there is at least seven years worth of ownership studies and repair data. Will you do it and then allow me to point out the typical issues that car has. It must be AWD and it must have a 5 star crash rating. I promise if you post the car you think Subaru owners should switch to ill do my research and post only factual information about its typical issues, I wont make anything up, I wont call it a piece of junk ill only inform if I can find any information that is, who knows maybe I wont, giggles.

      This website is unique, there isn’t anything else like it that I am aware of as most shop owners would never put themselves through the BS fine folk like you do to me. If there was a Website oh I dont know, lets grab Toyota and an Independent Shop Owner was trying to help Toyota owners though some if the issues that plaque a certain model you would find it much like this one.

      Now I have to run as I am late to go help my Buddy button up installing the third Automatic transmission in His Wife’s Acura TL up in my shop as I have a hoist. Yes it does have 160,000 and Acura paid for the first one so its understandable right and they get a pass?

      Best of Luck

      Justin

  221. I have been a happy Subaru owner for 28 years. Unfortunately, our 2006 Outback with 96K miles developed the HG problem along with other more minor issues. The dealer said it was going to run at least $2K and possibly up to $4K if there is damage to the engine block. Sorry but its time to pull the plug. No more Subarus for me!

    1. I am sorry you feel that way Ted,

      Here is something you can do for fun if you will. Keep your VIN number recorded and every few years do a car fax report and see how many more miles someone else gets out of it. If they take it to a shop that reports to car fax you can even see the next ten years worth of service work. That way you’ll know later if it was a good move Vs the next car, just a thought. We had a customer do that and found out their old car was still being serviced at our shop 4 years after they traded it in at the Kia Dealer across the street, you will find one of her posts here https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/kia.htm They kept the older Subaru for their Daughter as they Ski, and she will be one of the first to tell you that she let an emotional strain lead her down the wrong path. The allure of the 100k warranty soon became surreal.

      What am I saying here, please research out anything else you plan on buying by looking for the problems and not the fluff the media puts out.

      Thanks for posting

      Justin

  222. Justin,
    I forgot to mention, I’ve got a 1976 Subaru DL 1600 4WD wagon that has never had a head gasket issue. Still runs great to this day! A 36 y.o. car w/210,000 mi. on it, go figure. I’ve got to tell you though, I think the positive engagement of the manual 4WD system they used then is wayyyyy better traction wise than the newer systems they have now. That old beast will go where my Forester fears to tread. (A little under powered thou w/ only 67hp.)

  223. Justin,
    I’m about to replace head gaskets in my ’98 Forester w/ the DOHC engine.
    I’ve found research on the web that says with the MLS H.G.’s on an engine with both aluminum heads and block that a resurfaced head should have an RA (Roughness Average) figure of 30 microns or less.
    I found a machine shop that does a lot of aviation work and after truing them on a head grinding machine, they can put the heads on a lapping machine to get the RA factor to the neighborhood of between 2 to 3 RA With a total flatness within 0.00005 in. (Yes, 5/10,000th’s!)
    I’m using the six-star Viton H.G.’s.
    I would like your opinion on my plan to get the heads lapped to this extent of “polish”. Will it be beneficial or is there a problem with having heads so smooth? I only want to do this once!
    P.S.- Should any type of sealant like the spray-on “Copper-coat” be used with head gaskets?
    Thanks for your time, Jim

    1. Hi Jim,

      Are you buying the gaskets from us? If so we do provide a guide that will help answer some of these questions and provide you with some help to get you through the repair.

      Specifically the minimum is 50RA, a better average should be just fine.

      Justin

      1. Hi Justin,
        Thank you for your prompt reply.
        I thought 50RA would be the maximum roughness average suggested. Are you saying it’s the minimum? Question: Would there be a problem going all the way down to 2RA by lapping the heads and if so why?
        Sorry,I got the kit off Ebay from “Six Star Parts” in Minneapolis, Minnesota for before I had discovered your site. That includes all the seals, gaskets, O-rings, etc.
        The “Six Star” brand H.G.’s are mentioned in many of the Subaru owners forums as being the best on the planet and are used in the engines that Cosworth engine builders use, that’s why I choose this brand.
        Thank you sooo much for your time. I know that time is money and we all respect you for taking your valuable time to share your experience, expertise and advise with us.
        Thanks again, Jim

        1. Thats kind of what I had thought. I want to be clear about a few things, you bought parts from a guy that sells them out of his house, cant offer tech support and the supplier may shut down for the use of their name.

          The kit is very deceiving in that it does not include many of the parts needed to do the repair.

          In the event of an issue, he wont be able to help.

          I wish you the best, but cant offer to help.

          Justin

          1. Justin,
            I’m sorry if I’ve offended you in some way. If I have, then I apologize.
            I’m just an honest guy trying to get an honest/straight answer to my questions.
            Thank you, Jim

          2. Jim,

            Im not offended, but have spent more hours than I could ever try to convey trying to help Subaru owners. The only thing I have ever asked is that if you are local to us, come give us a try, if you are in need of parts give us an opportunity to take care of those needs and if you do those things I will help you to the best of my ability to what ever extent is reasonable. This has included road trips.

            I worked in conjunction with the HG manufacturer in the current design, was the first to offer the HG kits for sale including whats really needed to do it correctly as well as include a repair guide and offer tech support while the gaskets come with torque specs and sequence they do not come with the when, where, why and this is whats needed to make sure these gaskets are not just installed correctly but the repair is done correctly. I have also tried to establish that a price for the kit sold online should not differ all that greatly from what we charge our local customers who have us make the repairs for the same parts.

            What has recently transpired is someone I helped get his start has started selling Six Star HG kits, but done so is a very deceiving way, his kits do not include Valve cover gaskets, bolt seals, spark plug tube o-rings, oil filler tube o-rings, flange nuts oil filter drain plug gasket, scotch brite pad, a repair guide or tech support. But what he has done is offer a $160.00 dollar kit minus half of what you need plus other items that are nice to do but not as critical.

            I just cant justify the hours I spend, the staff I employ, the service we offer to put together the HG kits to help anyone who buys from somewhere else. In some cases that’s just the beginning of the relationship as many like your self have questions, those questions need to be answered by the company you bought the gaskets from, but in this case the gentleman selling the incorrect kits on ebay wont have the answers as he’s only been at the Subaru thing a couple of years, and never been to the Gasket makers facility as far as I know.

            Please don’t take this personally its not just for you to read, its for the last 30 emails, and phone calls that have also come in under similar circumstances as well as the next buyers who look at our kits and then buy else where based on price. I understand you found us post purchase, probably didn’t intend to buy from someone else besides us, but neither one of us can help that at this point, I have to establish whats the right thing for the company, my customers and the Subaru community as well.

            Here is my single biggest concern.

            What I can tell you that you have not read anywhere else is that the SixStar gasket if not done correctly and strict maintenance done post repair may not last the life of the car, if and only if they are done correctly and treated right after the repair can this happen. Someone who is just selling the parts because he can, is going to tarnish the brand and leave many in financial dismay.

            Ive just worked to hard trying help solve this problem to want to see that happen.

            Justin

  224. I have to say Thank You Justin, you have helped me make a critical dissension. I will not suggest that my son spend his hard earned money and buy a Subaru for his first car. What I feel you are missing is that most people are feeling cheated by paying a premium dollar for a Subaru in the belief that they are purchasing a premium vehicle. I understand your defense of Subaru head gasket problem that cost wise you are better to repair the vehicle than walk away from it. Though most of the people on this forum would rather have not had the problem all together, what happened to the days when you paid for quality and actually got it. Now I won’t profess buy this brand over that brand, but I know which one I will not be buying. And again I will say Thank You You

    1. Hi Bryan

      I sincerely hope you spend as much time scrutinizing the other cars you have narrowed in down to as hard as you have the Subaru, what you will in fact find is that there is no such thing as a car that requires no money to be spent on it.

      What I say over and over again is that compared to the Audi and Volvo, a Subaru is going to cost less to own over a ten year period.

      If that’s not good enough than I just dont know what to say, the days of buying cars that didn’t need very much money in service and repairs ended when the EPA made the emissions laws more stringent and when the internet removed the profit from the sales of new cars, its not that cars cant go 300k its that items can and will need to be attended to. The money at the Dealer is made at the service Department every one this is not a Subaru thing its a every car thing.

      Justin

      1. as a real estate lawyer for many years, I used to tell my clients that there were “old house” problems and “new house” problems, but no sucha thing as a house with no problems. I’m sure we had problems back when we used to live in caves and trees – 2nd law of thermodynamics: entropy increases. Live with it.

  225. Thank you for your all your in-depth knowledge! We are considering buying a used 2006 Outback Impreza Sport 2.5 L, 4 cyl. AWD, automatic transmission with 100k miles for our daughter graduating from college. She will be taking it to NC to begin her teaching career. We want something that is affordable and reliable that she can drive for several years. It is a private sale and the owner says it needs a new head gasket. With everything I have read here, we expect to pay approx $2,000 for that repair and the other things that should be done at the same time. The car is clean and in nice condition otherwise. Could you give your opinion on a price range we should pay for the car in its current condition and the feasibility of this plan?

  226. Ha ha I just LOL’D, I just realized we are neighbors, jotted your number down and will be in contact with you today or tomorrow, wow I feel like I lucked out, you being in the Seattle area n all.

    Ttyl

  227. Hey there Justin, I’d like to say, YOU DA MAN BRO, DA MAN!

    For your extensive knowledge and your passion to take the time and share it. Thank you.

    As for my concern with our subie(08 legacy 2.5i with I believe the H4 engine?)- I have noticed a burning oil smell circulating through my vents recently, usually @ idle, now at first I thought it was from oil getting on the exhaust after I had changed the filter, usually I do a pretty good job of wiping it down, nevertheless I disregarded the smell. So the burning oil smell never really went away after an oil change interval (I run mobil 1 full syn, 5k intervals) and drive the car appx 800mi a week, so about 6 weeks now intermittently I smell the burning oil smell. The car has 89k on it now and I just changed the plugs, wires, oil change, ft and RR diff service, and did I a drain and fill with spin on for the auto trans. It has had power flush on trans @ 68k, we bought the car new and all Im tryin to say is I try to take good care of our car, it really is a fine auto and given us ZERO problems.

    Now I have noticed an accumulation of oil residue behind the filter on the bottom of the head/block, I am unsure if it is from the filter, or from the HG? As the residue kinda follows the HG. So I sprayed some non-clorinated brake clean and wiped it down to try and spot a leak, I also tightened the filter down more this time around(I only use genuine Subaru parts/filters) to see if that helps. My question(s) are (now that I provided all that) could this odor be from a bad pcv, and where is the dang thing? And how hard is it, really, to replace the HG, I have done it on numerous vehicles in the past, most recently my LBZ Duramax, but neverbefore on a boxer type engine, do iI have to pull the block, or can it reasonably be done in the engine bay?, also I have a new timing belt, pulleys, h2o pump and acc belts to do, but I have been holding off till I figure out this oil smell thing, ya know, no need to do the work twice…but I wanna get those parts on Cruz I have noticed the accessorys making more noise than what I feel is usual, so I figured the bearings in the pulleys were on their way out, and I prefer to be pro active when it comes to vehicle maintenance. Sorry for the ramble, thanks for your time and hopefully, response.

    Jason/ Seattle

    1. Hi Jason,

      As a proud owner of a LB7 Duramax, I can tell you that compared to HG on a DMAX Subaru’s are a walk in the park. If you find your self needing to make the repair you will want to take the engine out and use the Six Star gaskets we sell. If you elect to do them in the car I promise the repair wont last as the first set.

      To the burning smell, the residue you spotted above the filter is the right side HG starting to leak oil, you also need to look at the back of the left side head which is difficult to do with the exhaust configuration in the 2008. If you have a mirror that may help.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  228. Hi Justin,

    We have a 2011 Forester, and the manual states that engine coolant should only be replaced at 137k. In your earlier posts, you stress that frequent changes are important.

    (1)In your opinion, is the engine redesign combined with a different coolant sufficient for such long intervals? If the vehicle is used for regular driving on clean roads, is there anything I should be doing to check coolant condition?

    (2) At 60k, I’ll need to replace spark plugs. Is that realistic without having to remove the engine? Any advice would be appreciated here.

    1. Hi Dmitriy,

      The 137k interval is to show unrealistically low ownership costs.

      The use of Ph Strips or a volt meter looking for the presence of voltage are useful tolls when evaluating when your coolant should be service, for those that want to listen, I dont like any coolant past 60k.

      The engine doesn’t have to come out to replace spark plugs.

      Justin

  229. How many head gaskets have you done on a 2010 or newer outback? Did they have a lot of miles? (150,000+) Thanks for the help. I’ve got an 2010 outback on my radar.

  230. Hey Justin,

    Thanks for all the input in the comments so far. I’m considering buying a 2008 Impreza hatchback 2.5i. It has 98k miles on it, and after reading this section, I will definitely be taking it to my mechanic to get it checked out, especially the head gaskets I haven’t seen much about the Imprezas in the comments thus far, but I assume it has the same engine and many of the same parts as the outback and forrester. I was wondering if you had seen any major recurring issues with this particular model?

    Thanks in advance.

    1. For the 1999 to 2002 SOHC 2.5 it really seemed like an everyone kind of a thing and many were coolant leaks, for the post 2002 we see oil leaks and some coolant leaks as well.

      2008, we see some but less on a percentage basis than the older models.

      If repaired will it reoccur? Depends on who makes the repairs and whats used.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  231. Just bought a 2002 Forester that has 145k on it …… the head gasket has been replaced recently. My question is regarding synthetic oil that is rated at 9000 miles. My assumption is that the synthetic oils extended life will just cause more uncombusted gasoline to accumulate in adverse driving conditions and that it will be detrimental to go the extra miles. Please address this issue.

    1. Hi lee,

      The problem with the Question is I have no idea how you use the car to know what your intervals should be. I am also not here to sell anyone on the premise that with more expensive oil you can change the oil less often.

      Here is what I do, I use synthetic blend and change the oil in every single car I own including our loaner cars, some of which have over 300,000 miles. This opinion will differ form the fellows on most forums. And yes Synthetic oil can increase the levels of dilution depending on use, there is no black and white answer as there are way to many variables.

      Justin

  232. Hi Justin

    We have a 2005 Forester with 123K miles. No signs of HG problems but I have a couple of questions to possibly help prevent their future failure.

    I was a service technician and drove about 2000 miles a month, 2/3 on the highway. I recently retired and we now use it as a second car, maybe only 200 miles a month.

    Questions:
    1) How often should I change the oil?
    2) How often should I change the coolent?
    3) What type of oil do you recommend?
    4) Does using full synthetic oil help it from getting contaminated?
    5) What % of Subarus will see their HG fail?

    Your site is the best, I’ve learned a ton. I know the best thing to help preserve the HG is to take the Forester for monthly long hiway runs and check the fluids regularly. Any other advise for extremely low use? Any other advise would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Hello Scott,

      1) How often should I change the oil? 3 months 3000 miles depending on use, which makes the question tough to answer.
      2) How often should I change the coolent? Every 2 years minimum
      3) What type of oil do you recommend? Castrol 5w30 blend
      4) Does using full synthetic oil help it from getting contaminated? yes and no
      5) What % of Subarus will see their HG fail? Its difficult to answer that Question,

      Most will at least develop a minor oil leak some not until 300k, some at 60k and some anywhere in between. Turbo charged and six cylinder vehicles may never experience a HG failure do to greater surface mass and a MLS gasket from the Factory.

      On the 2005 Forester I would pin it closer to 30 % by the time its hit 200k.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  233. 2002 Subaru OBS owner here. Had to have the head gasket replaced by the dealer in 2008 (58K miles). Just found out, at 91K miles, that the car needs another head gasket replacement. So that’s $4000 in repairs in less than 35K miles. I’m keeping the car and hoping this is the last issue I have with head gaskets for many miles, but this has permanently soured me on Subaru as a reliable automaker. No modern car – I don’t care if it’s a Chrysler, a Fiat, or a BMW – should require 2 head gasket replacements before 100K miles. And not covering either under warranty or recall is pathetic.

  234. Hi Justin,

    Really impressed that you folks are running a (apparently) successful shop and still being helpful with the DIY crowd.

    I have an 08 Outback with 120,000 miles that has been leaking a little oil for a while and I just noticed coolant on the driver’s side. I’m curious about head bolts. I’ve heard they need to be replaced and I’ve also heard they can be checked?

    I’m also curious about machine shops. I live in a very rural area and the local Napa shop has a machine shop but I doubt they’ve seen too many Subaru’s. Is there anything more complicated with a Subaru head that they might not be aware of or would you recommend looking around for a machine shop that has Subaru experience?

    Finally, I would guess you would recommend the six star gaskets for this car?

    Thanks,
    Sean

    1. Hi Sean,

      Thanks for the kind words.

      Yes we would suggest the Six Star Gaskets for an 08. As long as Napa can refinish the Cylinder heads to RA 50 then yes they would be a solid choice for you. Just don’t use their parts!

      We as a rule don’t arbitrarily replace the head bolts but we do inspect, I will tell you however on the 2005 to 2009 models we replace more than we ever did on the 1999 to 2004, and its mostly in correlation to letting the 2005 and newer models get to the point where they leak coolant externally and the heads are warped.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Thanks, that helps a lot. Probably better to just be safe and buy the new bolts, at least then I won’t loose sleep over it. I’ll definitely be getting the parts from you guys.

        If you don’t mind a couple of other questions. This car has been making some noises from the throw-out bearing (squealing noise on start-up that goes away if you lightly touch the clutch pedal) so I’m going to be doing a clutch when the engine is out to address that as well.

        1. What’s been your experience in turning the flywheels in these vehicles? Should I just plan on buying a new fly wheel? The clutch isn’t slipping at all (even when towing a light drift boat).

        2. Have you seen a need in this age/mileage of car to install one of the sleeves that goes over the transmission snout? The clutch engages smoothly so I don’t think I’m in danger but I’m just curious what you’re seeing.

        Sorry to get off the headgasket topic! Maybe it’s a refreshing change?

        1. Hi Sean,

          We have a really good Shop that we use to send Flywheels out to so yes we have had great success turning the flywheels, if you don’t have a good machine shop that is up to this task and has had a good track record of turning the Flywheels I would buy new.

          You will want to inspect the input shaft housing where the throw out bearing slides to look for signs of wear. We have a sleeve kit if its grooved, but that’s not all hat common, less than 10% of the clutches we replace have this wear.,

          Hope that helps

          Justin

  235. Just traded a ’97 Outback for a ’13 XI Crosstrek. I am heartbroken because I loved the Outback. The Outback had a HG problem and after reading this blog, I understand better what happened and now know what to look for. Seems like the Subaru mechanic should have mentioned this long ago! Anyway, am I looking for the same HG problems to occur in the Crosstrek? If yes, when?

    Thanks.

    1. Hi Teresa,

      The Crosstrek uses the 2.0l, I really don’t think it will have the same type of issues the 2.5 has had do to the increase in surface area of the gasket mating area of the engine block.

      Time will ultimately tell however.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  236. Hi,

    I have a 2007(!!!!!!!) Subaru Impreza which was diagnosed to have leaky HG’s. I tried to claim it on Insurance but they refused even though it didn’t leak oil onto the ground until right after I hit some exposed manhole covers on a road which was being repaired.

    The dealer I bought it from wants $1,800 to fix for both gaskets, which is okay from these posts here.

    From what I can see you don’t trust dealerships to fix this issue. Who do I take my car to if not the dealer? I live in Elkins Park area in Pennsylvania.

    The car is at Colonial Subaru in Feasterville, PA on 200 Street Rd.

    1. Yes the Leaky HG have nothing to do with the manhole cover, its not possible.

      I don’t have a network of shops to refer you to, you need to establish (and really should have a long time ago) a relationship with a good independent shop.

      How did you find your Doctor, Dentist etc. Employ the same tactics to find a good place to take your Subaru.

      Justin

  237. Hi,
    I have the opportunity to purchase a 1999 Forester. The engine has been completely rebuilt – bearings,cam shaft, pistons, rings , head gaskets, timing belt plus new cv joints and axels, brake calipers and new tires a few other things like the fuel filler tube and rear winshield wiper motor are also new. I think the mechanic is a straight shooter and good at what he does. He is asking $6,000. The body and interior are in very good condition. I’m thinking this might be a very good deal. What do you think? Thanks

  238. we have a 2004 Outback with the 2.5 and at 90k miles the head gaskets failed so we had it fixed at a independent repair shop. Long story short he didnt do the job good and put in aftermarket gaskets they are blue ad I have been told by subaru that these are natorious for failing. After the mechanic fixed it it ran horrible worse then it did with blown gaskets. So we took it to the dealership to have it fixed turns out he used the wrong plugs,air filter, and even too big of radiator hoses! I was furious. now I am worried about the car that it may not run right again or may blow the head gaskets again any info is greatly appriciated. BTW I asked the mechanic at Subaru and he said that subaru switched gasket manufactures in late 2004 so I believe that is when the problem was finally fixed mine was the old type of gaskets. DONT EVER HAVE THE HEAD GASKETS DONE AT AN INDEPENDENT SHOP YOU WANT SOMEONE WHO KNOWS SUBARUS AND WONT USE AFTERMARKET PARTS

    1. The Blue aftermarket gaskets you speak of, yes should not be used, however the Six star should be used over the OE Subaru Gasket.

      Next the repair is only good as the Tech a good independent Subaru Shop is the best choice, but a general aftermarket shop is not.

      In production in 2003 Subaru made a insignificant change to the Gasket, which is why we still replace gaskets on 2008 models.

      Justin

  239. In August 2012 I purchased a 2003 Forester and the seller offered a free 12 month warranty… drive train.
    I drove it from SC to Massachusetts, stayed three weeks .. total 1158 miles.
    It overheated in Columbia SC on the way up and AAA Center tried to find the problem but sent me off with “probably a loose cap.” No other incidences on the trip.
    It was very hot in Massachusetts and we used the AC constantly. The day after I returned home, it ran hot for the 2nd time while idling with AC on. I looked at Forester Forum posts and made a list of possibilities. Then I looked up Diamond Warranty. Yikes. Subaru dealer says Engine Reseal. The warranty company says it is good for parts but not seals. What do I need to know to make sure we are doing the right thing here?

    1. Without reading the warranty policy for my self and seeing the car I can only give you vague advice.

      From here it sounds like you are on the hook for the cost of the repairs. But yes many aftermarket warranty policies are not worth the ink.

      Justin

  240. Justin,

    We have a 2004 Forester and were just told we have serious leaking gasket issue. We’re wondering if Subaru has corrected their gasket design since 2009, and if so, did it truly correct the problem? Just wondering if purchasing a newer Forester is wise? Loved this Forester. Thanks

    1. The 2004 Forester is a great Car and I am glad to hear it has treated you well, if you Love the Forester and have so up until now, why get rid of it? Its just a gasket leak.

      The 2009 Forester has the same gasket as your 2004.

      Justin

  241. Hey Justin I recently purchased a 1993 Subaru impreza to use as a commuter car. It has 14inch wheels on it. A friend of mine is junking his 1998 Subaru legacy gt. I would like to know if his wheels will fit on my car. He has 16 inch stock legacy gt wheels, I believe they are 16 inch spoke wheels (kinda looks like bbs type wheels). Anyhow will they fit on my car without rubbing? Will I need wheel spacers? My rear brakes are drums not disc.

  242. I have an 03 Impreza wrx with forged 2.5, Cometic head gaskets, this was done 15,000 miles ago. It started to push coolant into the plastic overflow bottle under very heavy driving, this was the only sign as I could see, the car has been well maintained. But now has HG failure which resulted in hydraulic compression in No3 cylinder, conrod is twisted to 45deg of normal, exhaust valve has broken away and piston is smashed. I will keep a closer eye on the coolant and check it more closely but is there a better HG than the cometic type to use in the rebuild.
    thanks
    Trev

    1. Hello Trevor,

      Sorry to hear that.. If you are running stock boost levels, I would have to say that the gaskets failed due to either surface prep issues including RA average, chemical residue etc. Or a head bolt issue. Generally speaking those gaskets are pretty solid. My only other suggestion is the OE Subaru Gasket.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  243. Please report to NHTSA about blown gaskets so they can investigate it and issue a recall. I had the same problem like everyone else and we have to start taking action against Subaru treating it like nothing happened.

  244. I just purchased a 1997 Subaru legacy L with the 2.2 engine. The vehicle has 113,950 miles. It is in immaculate condition. I am planning on flushing the radiator and would like to know what is the best type of antifreeze to use?( dealer or store brand) Should I use pure antifreeze or 50/50?

    1. 50/50 mix.

      At the end of the day on that era Subaru just requires the normal green concentrate that you mix to a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and “good water”. Nothing fancy, expensive or complicated, but do not flush it.

      Justin

      1. Hello Justin what would be a good motor oil to use in a 1997 Subaru legacy L with a 113,950. I just changed the antifreeze upon your recommendation and would like to know should I use regular oil or should I switch to Synthetic. Please let me know what brands are the best also.

        Thank You
        John

  245. Hi
    After months of research to buy a forester or an outback, i have finally learnt today from your website something that i did not read and could not find anywhere else on forums e.t.c, and that is that from 2002-2009 the foresters and the outbacks use the same Head-gaskets.(i hope i’m not wrong) For some reason people think from 2004 on-wards they are different/better?

    And regardless of these head-gasket issues e.t.c, i am definitely getting a Subaru.

    I have a question i hope you can answer.

    Between the 2004 Forester xt, 2004 Outback H4 and 2004 outback H6 (all manual transmission) and considering all were looked after well and had the regular maintenance at 3000miles e.t.c) and millage around the 75,000-95,000mile mark), which car would give me least overall repair cost if i were to drive for another 35,000miles?

    I know its very hard to answer such a question specifically because it depends on a variety of things, but in general, with your Subaru expertise, which car should i go for? for practicality and use wise, any is good for me, and i wouldn’t mind the extra power of the forester xt. I have been stuck for 2 months now, every day i’m learning something new, and i just can’t seem to jump in and buy one.

    thank-you for all you shared knowledge and help.I wish i would know of an honest mechanic here in Sydney, Australia.

    1. Adam,

      There is no general advice I can give, ts always about the car in question.

      Im glad you doing research but have both inspected by a Local Subaru shop and buy the one that is the best value based on that information and which car you prefer to drive. I can tell you that the H^ should be better, only top have the one you buy be a non maintained problem waiting to happen.

      Justin

  246. Hi Justin,

    I stumbled upon your site and have found it very informative. I am looking to purchase my first car and don’t have a very large budget so I am considering buying a 1999 Forester S Limited with 200K on it for aprox $4000 OR a 2007 Subaru Impreza 2.5i Special Edition with 200K for $5000. I am leaning towards the Forester because in my opinion it seems like it has not been driven hard due to the fact that it has on avg. fewer kilometer per year on it. However after reading the reviews about HG problems on your forum I have become weary about purchasing either due to HG issues.

    I was wondering if you had any input or any information on what I should look out for when purchasing either of these cars?

    Thanks in advance,

    Garry

    1. Either one is ok, but only after a good Pre Purchase inspection is performed.

      The budget is tough however and any car with 200k is going to get into your wallet post purchase most likely.

      Justin

  247. I was just told my 06 outback, with 95K miles, now has a small oil leak in the head-gasket.

    The dealer actually said to just keep an eye on it and only replace it if the leak gets worse.

    Is this sound advice?
    Should I replace it now or wait?
    I’m not loosing oil or overheating.

    thanks,

  248. Hello,

    I found your website after bringing my ’96 Outback home from the local garage with a “you really should just replace the motor” diagnosis. From what I was told, my motor (at 147K miles) is one of the first generation motors and not worth fixing. My son replaced the head gaskets at about 110K, but now it looks like the cam seals are leaking and I’m not sure what else – there was a lot of oil on it so a little bit hard to tell what all might be involved. The cost of repairing all the leaks on this one would approach the cost of replacement with a rebuilt 2nd generation motor, and that was the suggested course of action. This is a shop that only deals with Subarus – but not a dealership, if that makes any sense. They do sell them, but only used vehicles.

    In the mean time, I started browsing the internet and found a 2002 Subaru with a 2.5 SOHC motor that is within my price range. I know it’s impossible to speak to the reliability of the specific vehicle but, in general terms, would this motor design be the more desirable one?

    I can afford either option (repair old car or replace it) – I’m just trying to make the best choice.

    Wonderful blog, by the way. I’m very happy to have found it as I anticipate I will own Subaru’s for quite some time.

    Anne

    1. I know you didn’t even have a chance to repsond, but I just wanted to update.

      Scratch the 2002. However, I did locate a 1999 Outback Sport that is closer and cheaper. Mileage is 75K and appears to have been very well maintained. I’m hoping to look at it later this week.

      Regarding the 1996 Outback Legacy, would we be better off following the advice that was given and replacing the engine with a 2nd generation? I was told that even if all leaks were repaired on the current motor, it would still be considered to be less desireable than the second generation. I have the luxury of time and space (and mechanically inclined guys) for the motor to be pulled for a rebuild, but I’m wondering if it is worth it in the long run.

      And thank you again for the time you put into answering all these questions.

      Anne

    2. Hi Anne,

      The second gen 2.5l does not really just swap in place of the 1st gen and should not be done!

      A cam seal leak should not be the cause of wanting to replace the entire engine.

      Justin

      1. Thank you for the input, Justin. It looks like we are going to use the Outback until we purchase a replacement and then most likely park it for a rebuild on the motor and eventual turn over to one of our children.

        Regarding pre-purchase inspections – is it wise to use the mechanic that has done the maintenance on the car in question for the inspection? The Sport that I am hoping to look at has been taken to a dealer for maintenance. Being that it is not in an area I am familiar with, am I being naieve thinking I can take the car there and expect an objective opnion or would it be better to go to someone else entirely? How does one choose a good inspector?

        Thank you once again!

        Anne

  249. I’ve gotta say im not to impressed with Subaru myself. I just bought an 04 legacy sedan w/ 53,000 on it off an elderly lady she bought it new an has kept up on the maintince and its in mint condition. Well after a couple weeks off owening it im starting to smell antifreeze and looked it over and see the drivers side is a little wet. From what i understand thats the side that fails 1st. I called Subaru of america and they said there was no open reall on my car but there was recalls on 02-03 on HG i think she said (but it was vin spicific) which makes NO sense what so ever to me… How is it that yr car that has the same motor as my car they can have a recall on, but not on ALL the 2.5’s that CLEARLY have a HG issue??? I mean look at Toyota, they reconized that they had a rust issue and they recalled a ton of there tundras and tocomas and did over 10,000 repairs!! Subaru said to me well its not under warrenty and its 10yrs old, i said i understand its not under warrenty but wht the hell isnt there a recall? They said its a wear an tear item, well im sorry but at 54k it shouldn’t be leaking and i’ve seen ones leaking at 30K. I mean come on Subaru stand behind your product like TOYOTA did!!! Pretty dissapointed in them right now…

    1. Hi Eric,

      So you bought a car without having it inspected, took someones word it was ok only to find out it has a Hg leak, but somehow that’s not your fault? An inspection before hand would of been a great way to negotiate the price of the needed HG repair off of the asking price.

      The recall thing was because Subaru recognized they were not specific enough about the coolant needs on the 1999 Forester and 2000 to 2002 Legacy Outback and Impreza 2.5l. By 2003 Subaru of America had in fact communicated well enough with their Franchised Dealers in the way of the WWP-99 Campaign what was to be used.

      Next saying it was maintained and in “mint” condition without backing that up with the intervals used is really troubling.

      The car is 9 years old and if driven normal as according to the owners manual would have over 135,000. So it was actually used in a very “severe way” instead, and was maintained the opposite of how it should of been most likely. I say this is that’s been the case with every single HG repair we make on cars that are under driven for the year.

      Justin

  250. hi , I have have a 1995 250T , with the HG problem , yes the radiator has the exhaust smell when removing the radiator cap , and its finaly got that bad , I’m going to replace the head gasket my self , …..what is the final torque settings for my head bolts ,psi? being ali, heads they they wont take as much tightening as cast iorn heads…
    so after reading all of the comments and your replies , I’m going to fit extra earth straps to the engine and chassis and fix some zink into coolent to help with the internal corrosion ..unless you have a better idear ??

  251. Hi Justin:
    Your website is so unique, I have not seen any website that puts forth so much useful info. Your expertise, dedication and effort is noticed!

    I read where you mentioned the 2013 Impreza engine is a redesign. I’m wondering if you happen to know if it is a brand new design, or a new re-do?

    I’ve been doing research for months on buying a new car and have been doing a lot of reading about new cars.
    The more I read the more questions I have!
    Thank you.

    1. Hi Nat,

      Thanks for the Kind words.

      The 2012/2013 Impreza is a platform revamp utilizing the 2.0l FB which I really tend to like as the surface area of the block and heads will be greater and should hold up better in terms of potential HG issues.

      I have several family members and friends as well as customers that have the Impreza or the new Crosstrek (based on the new Impreza) and love them.

      Justin

      1. Given your remarks I will certainly consider the new Crosstrek, and plan to test drive it.
        I read in your blog that one of the factors in the Subaru HG failures is not driving the car enough. This would be my only car, but I might not drive it for a month, or months at a time, preferring a motorcycle or bicycle in the nice weather. With the new engine I don’t know if I should take this into consideration, I don’t want to ask the car to do what it is not meant to do, and damage it in the process. If I had not read your blog I would not have picked up this information, so I am ahead of the curve already!

  252. Hi Justin.

    Firstly thanks for taking the time with all your very helpful responses.

    I have a 2000 Outback Limited 2.5i (MY01) that is leaking oil from the head gaskets at 85,000 miles. There has never been any overheating or fluctuating temps from the sensor nor is there ANY trace of oil in the coolant.

    My question is weather it is OK not replace the HG at this stage and drive the car while monitoring the fluids and temp gauge? Based on my understanding, if the oil enters the coolant than the work needs to be done asap?

    The clutch and rear bushings also require repair. This car has cost a fair amount of money in repairs in the 2.5 years of my ownership but only now do i feel it getting really out of control.

    If i get all these repairs done is it likely that i could still be up for big bucks in the not too distant future? What are your experiences with the life of the manual transmissions with these models?

    Also i was planning to have the car not in use for a number of months while i’m over seas. It will be turned over every week or so but that’s it. If the coolant and oil is clean and the battery is good, will the gaskets continue to deteriorate?

    I really appreciate any info / advice here. Many thanks.

    1. Hi Sean,

      Oil wont enter the coolant on a modern Subaru thats the 1970’s version of a “Blown Head Gasket”

      An external oil leak is something else all together, if you continue to use the vehicle locally to commute you can monitor it and the instant it begins to leak coolant address it or just take car of it now, or before any planned road trip.

      The clutch can be done for just the cost of parts during a HG repair if its done at a good shop.

      I cant tell you how to spend or when to spend your money, all I can say is its always going to affect your bank account the least to repair what you own and it will never leak less.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Thanks for the reply Justin.

        Just to clarify what you meant by, “An external oil leak is something else all together”?? Does the oil leak from the HGs indicate that an external coolant leak is likely to follow?

        Also can you advise on the risks of leaving the car standing for 6-10 months only being turned over every week or 2.

        Thanks again mate. Like everyone here i’m very appreciative of your advice.

        1. Hi Sean,

          I am trying to explain to you that oil wont enter the coolant on your car until its almost beyond repair. You asked if you can drive it until that happens, the answer is no, it will leak oil until it also leaks coolant only the trained eye can tell that on the onset as it may start out grey before it turns green.

          You can use it locally and continue to monitor as long as its just oil leaking, but understand its just a matter of time before that changes I have no idea how much time from here.

          A car that sits runs the risk of a dead battery, hard spots in the tires, rotted hoses, increased ph levels in the coolant, complete fluid drain from components amongst other things.

          Hope that helps

          Justin

  253. Hey Justin,

    I am from the Caribbean (Grenada) and own a used Japanese 2007 Subaru Forester (V.I.N: SG5-119690).

    I am very grateful to have such a comprehensive post on problems re: head gaskets in Subaru vehicles. Unfortunately, in Grenada, we have an authorized dealer who does servicing and repairs but it cost so much and much is not explained as you have done! Maybe you can give me some general advice on my problem. Here’s what happened:

    My vehicle started showing signs of needing a battery replacement in late October 2012 thereabout which I did in late December. During November 2013, however, while traveling one late night, the steering got a bit stiff and the vehicle shut down immediately. I noticed after that it was overheating. A diagnosis said that I needed to get the top tank of the radiator and the thermostat replaced, which I did with a non-genuine thermostat. About 2 weeks after, I noticed that the over-heating started back, this time I wasn’t seeing any visible evidence of that happening. It started showing those signs after traveling about 11 miles, then decreased to about every 2 miles. On overheating, I would see that the coolant from the radiator is drained into the coolant bottle and would show bubbles; then, when cooled, the radiator will suck back the coolant and the bottle will be almost or completely empty. I am absolutely sure that I am losing on coolant because I kept replacing.

    As I write, the car is at the mechanic. The radiator cap and a clamp for a hose (not sure which) has been replaced but the vehicle continues to overheat. Could the problem be the head gasket, or something else, or a combination of issues.

    Needless to say that I am a “dufus” when it comes to vehicles, however, I can fully understand what’s explained to me and appreciate hard truths. I really like my car and wouldn’t trade it for any other (except a younger model); so, I would like to get the issue rectified as soon as possible.

    BTW, if you sell parts, do you ship to the Caribbean?

    Thanks much; and looking forward to your response.

    1. Hi Reece,

      Sorry to hear about the trouble.

      Its not your job to be an expert, just be an informed owner, which is why you are here..

      It sounds like classic internal failure of the head gasket symptoms to me, but it is less common on the 2007 and maybe it still has an air pocket or a leak creating an air pocket, I guess the question is how familiar is your guy with Subaru and can you smell an exhaust like odor in the radiator or overflow bottle?

      We can ship to Grenada, but would have to obtain a quote for shipping.

      However you could fly me in to fix your Subaru, I can put all the parts needed in my Suitcase and come fix it for you 🙂 Of course id have to bring the wife and kiddo and call it a Vacation, but the Caribbean sounds like a real nice reprieve from the grey and rain that is Seattle Washington right now, of course im kidding, maybe.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Thank you, Justin…I a awaiting a full parts list from the mechanic, and I will get back to you on what I would be needing. No worries though, the shipping can be done within the US, then my sister can take care of getting it to Grenada.

        Would’ve surely been awesome to have you in Grenada though!!!!

  254. Thanks for all the useful information on head gasket problems.
    My wife owns a 2008 outback with 60000 miles (oil changes at 5000 and coolant at 50000). We bought it used after checking consumer reports and seeing the improved motor reliability on 2008 and later years. The only issue with the car so far was front struts at 50,000 miles and a airbag light.

    Based on our experience with her Outback, I recently replaced my 04 altima 3.5(200,000 & runs great) with a new a 2013 legacy. we are very happy with our new Subarus and my daughter was excited about the altima hand me down.

    Anyway, my son is looking for a used Subaru outback but I’m concerned about the head gasket issue. He’s looking at early 2000 model years because of his budget. Is there a way to tell about Head gasket leaks, timing belts, or other issues during a test drive or pre-purchase inspection? I do most of my own work routine mechanic work like oil changes, brakes, struts, tie rods, plugs.

    thanks for the help

    1. If you can find a Subaru Expert near you, let them perform an inspection on any car you are considering. The only way to tell is to inspect, and if you dont have service records showing the timing belt has been doen, assume it hasn’t.

      Justin

  255. I am looking at buying a 2000 legacy wagon with the 2.5. Haven’t seen it yet but it has 152,000 miles and the owner does not know if the head gasket has ever been replaced. Would you say it is due? If their are no visible signs of a bad head geasket, think it would fine/safe to buy? Thanks.

  256. I want to know on the second generation 2.5i motors… If the engine was rebuilt with what are the chances of having the head gasket leak (autozone headgaskets vs subaru updated OEM). Is the problem recurrent in some cases? I’m looking into buying a 2001 outback with a rebuilt motor a& Tranny. Have owned 2 2.2liter legacy’s with over 200,000k miles on each of them.

    1. If parts from Auto zone were used I would put it at a 100% chance of a repeated failure. There is really nothing from an aftermarket retail auto parts store that belongs on your Subaru with the exception of some products from a bottle.

      Justin

  257. I just bought a Forester 2010. I knew that was SUBARU quite reliable, but reading Internet (not just on your own website) I realized how big the problems are with head gaskets. Even with engines of 2009 50K miles. Another says that blame the coolant, maybe the radiator cap, maybe the water pump. But surely regret not bought a Toyota RAV 4. I like the car but do not want to get up every day and look at the coolant or oil. Is it a crime for subaru not have corrected such a need to thoroughly problem after so many years.

    Thanks and sorry

    1. Hi Alex,

      Because you mention RAV 4 have you visited the owners forum to see what problems owners have had?

      You do not need to check your oil and coolant everyday, but you need to at the exact same pace that you should on ANY car you own.

      Its almost not possible to have a Horizontally opposed engine and not have oil leaks Develop at the HG, there not blown its just an oil leak.

      So with that in mind why should Subaru keep the Boxer engine? Because its what allows the entire design of the car to function as it does.

      How Subaru developed a cult like following through the years is the capability of the car in all weather conditions, plus people that walk away from serious accidents sharing that experience, thats what a Subaru is!

      If the above does not appeal to you than I guess you should trade it in on a Rav 4 with pretend AWD that could have a floor mat or a sudden acceleration issue impede your safety.

      To clear up any confusion for you, if a 2010 Forester develops a HG leak, it will be an external oil leak in which coolant, water pump or a radiator cap will not be to blame. Instead contaminated oil from a real lack of understanding of when it should be changed will slowly over time erode the gasket causing it to leak out some oil externally, this can also happen to someone who is diligent about maintenance based on use but typically at higher mileages than those who are not.

      Justin

  258. I’ve enjoyed reading the posts. A lot of good info. I have a 98 Forester with about 190,000 miles. I’ve been driving it since 1999 when it was rebuilt, it does have a salvage title. The last few years it’s been my teenage daughters car. Time has taken it’s toll as well as the hail storm last spring, the body is rough. It’s unattractive but for the age structurally sound. It recently overheated on her and was towed to my mechanic. He checked it and said either the HG was blown or cracked. Do I pursue this and get it fixed? I know the cars history and maintenance.

    1. Hello Cheri,

      Yes for teenage daughters repairing what you already own is going to cost you so much less than a new used car with its own challenges. The 1998 Forester is also a safe and reliable car and thats what I would want your daughters in and as you mentioned you know the car. Dont ever let anyone try to tell you the value of the car should ever dictate the decision to repair that is merely the opinion of someone who never truly looks at the numbers. Once a Car reaches the age where parts are no longer readily available and down time can increase when something comes up, thats when I suggest you move on, but everything is still available for the Forester and should continue to be so for the foreseeable future.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  259. Thank you so much for the info. It was very very helpful. I had a mechanic work on my car, and he refused to believe that the smell I had from thre coolant overflow bottle could smell like fuel. He said somebody must have left fuel in the coolant bottle. Incredible. So glad to read that I am not crazy, but knew that it was a sign of a head gasket problem

  260. Just found out today my 03 outback has HG oil leaks. How long can I go before I have to replace the gaskets? My Mech. said I can go a while, It will just leak to the outside and be stinky. Is it a good idea to do a valve job when heads are off. Should any other upgrades be done when heads are off. I have what sounds like lifter noise in my engine. I like my car. Are the any other issues with the 03
    subarus that I should pay attention to. I have found I have been able to keep my egr valve working by cleaning the valve stem and lubricating with silicon spray rather than oil. Thanks for the good work, Patrick

  261. May I say how refreshing it is to read such frank and open observations on Subarus! I’ve learned quite a deal reading these posts. To be quite honest, I had been looking at a 2000 Outback, but these issues have frightened me away from Subaru as a used vehicle. I love the appearance of the older Outback, Legacy and Forrester but don’t care for the angular or SUV-look of the new models. You’ve really made the head gasket issue clear to me.

    I do wish a service center as apparently capable and forthright as yours local to me. Were it, I might consider buying a used Subaru.

    Thanks, BTF!

    1. vw’s get a bad rep, but honestly- i have owned 6 now, drove each to approximately 150k, putting about 15k a year on them and never, ever replaced a head gasket or transmission. minor little bs things i can deal with – but headgaskets? come on. fyi, i spent less than $500 a year maintaining every vw ive had. some ive owned over 8 years. you can check edmunds if there is known, common major issues with a car, i love it. https://www.edmunds.com/subaru/forester/1998/reliability.html – note the engine issues and trans issues for the 2002 m.y. stay away from any car with a rating of “signifiacnt problems” in any costly area (ie engine / trans). this is a joke… every time someone rails on about how great japanese cars are – i point to my granpas rav4 & civic with 100k on it and burns oil like a chimney (also maintained fanatically), and these insane suby headgasket issues.

      1. HI JD,

        Thanks For Posting, for every I love My VW, there is a ,I hate my VW story.

        Because my Wife worked for VW as a service Advisor for a number of years I have the inside track to what type of repairs, recalls and safety issues they have. If you are going to tell me that the minor little things every 6 months post 60k didn’t add up to the same amount of money as a HG repair on Subaru Im going to say you were very lucky and the only VW owner I have ever heard of that didn’t. With that luck I suggest buying Power ball tickets immediately!

        All cars have flaws, there is zero money in making a perfect car. Buy what you like to drive and keep it for 300,000 miles is always my advice.

        Justin

  262. HI!

    Thanks for your posts on this. I have 2004 WRX (non-STi) with 140,000. I’ve been burning oil for the longest time now. I lose a quart anywhere from 800-1000 miles.

    * I’ve replaced all leaky hoses and gaskets with no visible sign of external oil leaks. Over the past year I’ve had the turbo hoses redone (gummed up with oil) and my guy thinks the oil might be some blow-by.
    * I overheated once 3-4 years back. Subaru did the repair. No overheating since.
    * I’ve had all scheduled maintenance done at the intervals. Timing belt done at 70,000.
    * I’m not sure about oil in the coolant.
    * Go through a battery every two years. Corrosion on the positive terminal was worst just last month.
    * Have not done hydrocarbon exhaust test at high throttle.
    * Compression/leakdown is:
    1 – 145psi, 26%
    2 – 160psi, 24%
    3 – 140psi, 42%
    4 – 160psi, 26%

    My questions are:
    1) “What tests should I have done in what order?”
    2) “What’s a reasonable repair quote for this?”
    3) “Could it be something else, like the turbo?”

    I assume the HC emission test is #1 and flush coolant, check for oil And that the repair is about $2000 not including a new timing belt, water pump, etc.

    My local guy doesn’t want to do the work because he said it’s a pain. So I’m not sure what my options are. I have recommendations on a great machine shop, but it’s then a matter of getting the engine out, delivering it, then getting it back.

    Thanks in advance,
    Dave Schulze
    Austin,TX

    1. So, the reasons for oil consumption cant be known by any of the tests that have been done. This is what eludes so many, there is no test for the oil control rings in car. Only after taking the engine apart and taking measurements of the oil control rings cylinder liner wear, as well as inspecting valve guide clearances and valve stem seals condition can you know the cause.

      A worn turbo impeller shaft and seal can also contribute as cab to rich a fuel mixture causing dilution.

      I guess what I am telling you is we still don’t know the cause, more diagnostic time to include a tear down of the engine is needed to know the cause if the fuel trim, pcv etc have all been proved to NOT be the cause.

      If the fuel supply was not disabled during the Compression test the #3 readings may be partial flooding of the cylinder?

      Justin

  263. Thanks for your comprehensive explanation and this forum. It’s provided a lot of good info on this problem. Our 2006 Outback with the 2.5l non-turbo and 108k on it just got diagnosed as needing HG’s replaced. Est is $3000. The car has always been maintained and serviced according to manufacture specs. There seems to be a pattern here that Subaru is ignoring. I’m tempted to sell our other 2008 Outback if this is what can be expected at around 100k.

    1. fyi – the problem we’re experiencing is oil leakage at the front of the right head. it’s leaking on the exhaust manifold and the smell is becoming unbearable.

  264. My son’s 2006 legacy 2.5 has a blown head gasket. The engine is leaking oil really bad. His local mechanic said $3000-4000 to repair. He does not have that kind of money so he brought it to me. I have lots of experience on v engines but none on boxer engines. There is no problem with me pulling the engine. The engine has 139,000 on it and I replaced the timing belt and idlers at 100,000 with a Gates kit. Would it be worth while to replace the bearings while I have it out? also, does the engine overhaul kit have all the seals and gaskets needed?
    Thanks

    1. Hi David,

      So a “blown head gasket” is one that’s causing the car to overheat, a head gasket causing an external oil leak is just an oil leak.

      We sell a base Hg kit which is all of the required seals and gaskets to make the repair, we can also supply anything else you need. When you say bearings are you referring to the rod and main bearings?

      Justin

  265. Hi Our ’98 Outback with 198,000miles has developed the head gasket issue. How do you feel about having the heads checked but not rebuilt and replacing the gaskets?

      1. Thanks for your answer. Do you recommend a certain manufacturer’s gaskets. We’re hoping for another 100,000 miles from our outback.

          1. Thanks Justin. There a few local shops capable of doing the work. Have you seen a high or low incidence of recurrence after this procedure? Thanks again, Jim

  266. Hi Justin,

    Thanks for this very informative blog. I had a question.

    I have a 2005 Subaru Impreza (130,000 miles) that has been regularly serviced with all lines and fluids flushed and replaced every 30,000 miles. For the last two years I have been using it for long-distance drives and for commuting (20 miles one way, most of it on the interstate). I recently took it for a State required emission and safety inspection to the local Subaru dealer. I had not noticed any temperature increase. It recently had recently got a 120,000 mile service (including the fluid flush and replacement) and I had the oil and filter replaced less than 2,000 miles ago. Hence I was really surprised when the Subaru service advisor told me that they had noticed a head gasket leak. Can this leak be detected while performing safety and emission testing?

    I thought I would get it changed as I surmised that if I continued to get it regularly serviced after this big expense it would last me a long time and I may be able to hand it over to my son for his first car.

    Thanks Justin for your time in answering my question.

    Best wishes

  267. Here’s my story….recently bought a used 1997 Suburu Legacy Outback with around 190,000 miles from a mechanic friend who had replaced everything imaginable around 165k; Headgaskets, radiator, fuel pump, timing belt, alternator, etc. Because of the HG issue he had sent in the engine to be worked on so every gasket, seals, etc. was replaced. The struts, brakes, etc. all have been replaced. I bought for around $4000 thinking what a deal with everything imaginable that could go wrong having basically been replaced…until last week when the headgaskets went again after about 3k and now like the typical HG stories I’ve read I have a $2500-3500 estimate to repair (currently pulling the engine as I type to see the extent of the internal damage).

    My question is based upon all the work that had been done prior to my owning the car is it even worth it to try and replace the HGs again or should I look for another engine with a warranty? Where would I even begin? On another note I guess the egine is a bit different from other similar 97 Suburu’s in that it has a double versus single intake or something….The body is in really great condition!

    1. That’s tough to answer, a third repair on the same engine is possible but needs to be meticulous.

      A possible solution is a JDM short block, sending your heads out for a valve job, plus all new seals and gaskets also re use the recent timing components plus waterpump and new thermostat as well as replacing the coolant temp sensor and you should be ok.

      All of this is going to be somewhat expensive, but really is the only way to unlock any value going forward.

      Justin

  268. I’m posting here after sending you a message and the reply suggested I should post here instead. I’ve got a 2002 Forester with 151,000 mi. that is just outside the Vin# for the wp-99 notice. Hence I never got the message. I decided a few months ago that I wanted to replace the vehicle probably with the 2014 Forester (I’ve been waiting for the better gas mileage numbers and they are finally doing it). My car must of heard me planning to get rid of it because it overheated and at first my mechanic couldn’t find any coolant leak it even pressure tested fine. So we filled it up with coolant and I’ve been adding coolant ever since (this has only been a couple of weeks). Now the coolant can be seen behind the gasket on the left side. I need to wait a few months to replace the car since that’s when the 2014 will be on the lots (hopefully). What’s the best short term solution? Should I add conditioner or is it too late? There’s no evidence of coolant mixing with oil but the oil gets low between changes which has been happening for a long time now. It doesn’t overheat as long as I keep the coolant levels up.

    Thanks and sorry for the long post. PS… do you know any Sub mechanics in Maryland?

    1. Hi Cheryl

      I receive over a hundred emails a day and only respond to local customers, if someone in another part of the country needs help this is how to go about it.

      Coolant and oil do not mix on modern cars when they fail. Its to late for conditioner by the sounds of it, the 2014 wont be around for a bit yet. You run the risk of it becoming non repairable if you drive it.

      While I understand not wanting to put money into something you plan on getting rid of, it may not be plausible.

      Justin

      1. Thanks for the reply, I really do appreciate the time you take here…. What’s your opinion of the Mazda CX-5? Their 2014 (2.5L) is on the lots. Gas mileage is important to me in my next car and the Crosstrek isn’t part of the Suby VIP program right now (which I qualify for)… I’m not sure it’s really me anyway. My Sub also needs suspension work as well. Just don’t want to put $3,000 into a 11 y.o. car. I’m not good with maintaining old cars. I don’t have other wheels for when it’s in the shop.

        1. Hi Cheryl,

          The CX 5 while available with AWD, is not going to be as capable as the Subaru. So it’s really about what your needs are. Also aside from the Miata and the RX 8 there are not that many driver forums so it does make information a little difficult to gather for a consumer doing research. If you only occasional need the AWD, this might be an ok choice for you.

          Mazda has an attractive entry point, but in the past with Mazda this is usually made up later.

          Justin

          1. Hi Justin… I just thought I’d update for people who might be reading through this still. After going through quite a bit of coolant (no overheating since i keep it topped off) I took a small gamble and placed 1 bottle of coolant conditioner in the radiator. The coolant leak stopped for now and I have a new 2014 on order due about June. I’m a little surprised it’s working so well since I was adding coolant daily from low to full in the overflow bottle. Now I’m just hoping it holds. Thanks for the education.

  269. I have a the head gastet problem listed above. I get a gas smell in the car and seem to be going through a lot of fuel as well. Are the problems related, I am not seeing any fuel leaking

  270. I’ve always liked Subarus, but I was hooked on them when my son bought a beat up old 87 Subaru GL Fastback with over 250,000 miles. It was so rusty that one time, while driving down the road, the skin of the hood flew off. You could not kill that little car. He finally had to take it off the road because the frame rusted and broke and broke the windshield too.

    We bombed around the fields with it for another year, then I gave it to my cousin who beat the hell out of it in a mud pit. I don’t think it ever did die. I think he rolled it and had it hauled to the junk yard.

    As soon as my Chevy S10 dies, I’ll be in the market for a Legacy. Is the head gasket leak a nuisance? Ya but $2400 is a small price to pay for the length of life you can get out of these cars.

    Keep up the good work, Justin. Your dedication is inspiring and your knowledge is priceless.

    Thanks
    Les

  271. Thank you Justin. There was an inspection done but all we had was a verbal note that the car was in good working order.

  272. Hello Justin, We recently purchased a “used ” 2006 Subaru B-9 Tribeca from a Subaru dealer (trade in). It has a little over 100,000 miles on it.
    We purchased the 19 point warranty which covers “seals and gaskets”.
    We have found that the car has a possible head gasket leak.
    Justin,Do you know anything about the warranties that Subaru gives and if this would cover a head gasket replacement? Also,how soon should we look into getting the work done?

    Thank you Justin.

    1. Hi Corry,

      So the warranty most likely is not a Subaru branded one, and instead a third part warranty instead.

      You will need to look over you paper work, and one possibility is the “out clause” of pre existing condition if a warranty claim is submitted very close to the purchase date, we have seen this happen where the used car side of any dealership sells a car they know is leaking then add a warranty as its less than the repairs, only to have the customer not have any coverage if it happens to soon. What you need is someone on your side locally to you that can look at it and guide you through the when and whats covered part of this.

      I can only assume there was no purchase inspection done?

      Hope that helps and all ends well.

      Justin

  273. Thanks Justin for sharing this! I’ll be making sure to take all of these precautions after this repair I’m going through.

    To share, I have a head gasket leak. Estimated costs for parts and labor is going to land me around $750 (Which completely sucks being on a college student budget). It has about 120,000 miles on it and I’d estimate after this repair I’ll get another 120,000 more. Besides this setback, maintenance is minimal and has been great for the time I’ve had it.

    A question to the reader; How long do you think this car will last with the head gasket repair?

  274. Hi Justin…Thanks for this service.

    We have a ’03 Forester 2.5 135k.
    It has been regularly maintained.

    One month ago it briefly overheated. The temperate gauge spiked for like 3 secs. I lost heat out the vents then everything went back to normal.

    I checked the reservoir it was full, but the radiator was a little low.

    I changed the radiator cap and added fluid.

    At my last oil change the dealer said, the car needed head gaskets.

    Someone offered to change the timing belt components w/ water pump, the heads would get a full clean, resurface, 3 angle valve job for 2,300.

    2,300 seems to be the consensus amongst all the shops

    Is that reasonable?
    Is a valve job necessary?

    Thanks Sir

    1. A valve job would be needed if the valves were worn, or the guides have dropped.

      I cant comment on reasonable not having researched out prices in your area. I would make sure all of the timing components are done, as well as the thermostat and OE parts are used, with the exception of the Head gaskets in which Case I would suggest the Six star.

      Justin

  275. Justin: My son and daughter in law have a Subaru — near Detroit, Michigan. (Huntington Woods) — 2006 Impreza hatchback (not WRX) with 130,000 miles. According to the dealer/repair place, it needs head gasket and timing belt replaced. They’ve quoted $4000 for that and an alternator replacement (which they said could be delayed???). You’ve indicated Subaru dealers are not the best placed to get repairs done.

    So where would the best place be? Or how would one find a good place?

  276. Jason, thanks for all the great info. My daughter is looking at 98 Impreza OS. You state that issues started with the late 98 Impreza for the 2.2 motor. How can I determine if it’s an early or late 98? Thanks in advance.

  277. My wife purchased a 2007 Subaru Forester and we just had the engine go down with 65,500 miles. Dealership says a leaking gasket caused it to overheat ruining a couple of valves. No compression in cylinder 3. We have appealed to S.O.A. for goodwill help. No determination on that yet? Warranty expired last April, & stated 5 yrs. or 60 thousand miles! If we opt to get a new Subaru Forester, will we be faced with similar issues, with such low mileage on a new one? Appreciate your response Justin. Thank you for a very informative blog.

    1. Hi Jack,

      Thats not a common situation and I wouldn’t think there would be another occurrence like this on a new Forester, or better yet just repairing what you have I know the emotions of having something like this happen tend to lead you to believe a better car is the easiest thing to do, but its also the most expensive a 2007 Forester ha lot of life left in it, if you don’t fix it and drive it to 300k someone else will. I am not sure what gasket failed to cause this however and I wonder if it could have been avoided all together.

      Justin

      1. Justin,

        Oil change maintenance on my wife’s Forester was within Subaru recommendations. Dealer that is working on vehicle, says cylinder failure was due to gasket leak, (not specifying which gasket?) causing engine to overheat, but we noted no overheat symptoms, or warnings on the dash? Any feedback on this? I would be interested in learning what sort of cost generally we will be looking at to repair the head, valves in cyl. 3, with a new timing belt & tensioner? A ball park estimate at a Subaru Dealership would be nice, if you could supply that estimate please? Have newer Subaru’s gotten away from headgasket failures?

        Thanks For Your Time Justin,

        Jack
        Mn.

        1. Hi Jack,

          When you say “Oil change maintenance on my wife’s Forester was within Subaru recommendation” I can only assume you mean the 7500 mile fairy tale?

          I ask because this is ultimately what causes early mechanical failure. The owners manual has lots of ifs, such as normal and severe use with out clear definition of which is what. We have found here at our shop that less than 10% of our customer use the vehicle in a way that is deemed normal and instead fall into the severe use category.

          You will need to call around you for an estimate.

          It wouldn’t be responsible for anyone to tell you what a new vehicle will be like in time. What I can tell you is there are changes that have been made that should reap benefits, but because the market place is demanding less maintenance the amount of repairs we will make due to lack of understanding in a buyer beware world is will be much higher than it should be regardless of changes and there will still be failures reported.

          The current trend is 0W20 oil and very tight tolerances in the engine for improved fuel economy at the same time stretching the oil change intervals without a real explanation of who should do what when, we have already replaced engines because of this as the tight tolerances and type of oil used combined with less frequent oil changes does in fact equal more repairs. this is not a Subaru thing, its across the board the real money made at a new car dealership is you trading in a car with a broken engine, them giving you almost nothing for it, them repairing it and selling it to someone else, or you just paying to fix it.

          When the internet took away the ability to make money on the sale of a new car, whats called fixed operations became how a Dealer pays its bills, when the market place demanded less maintenance, the repairs went up instead. You can truly google the make and model + the word problems and you will see the situation you are in happens to just about every model car out there, its never going to be every single one its just one here and there, but one here and there at $4000.00 ads up to real money for the Dealer over time. The real trap is the potential of goodwill. By the way they have to tell you which gasket failed, how it failed and an opinion of why it failed, don’t let them be so vague.

          Justin

  278. Hey Justin.

    An addition to my last message:

    The car runs perfectly with nothing leaking at all. My mechanic says the “CEL light is on and a Tranny temp light is on”.

    Any ideas?

  279. Hi Justin,

    Your website is amazing, and your desire to help and educate people about Subarus is inspiring… thanks so much.

    I have a 2003 Subaru Legacy L SE. My mechanic just did the head gaskets, timing belt, water pump, two motor mounts, spark plugs, wires. He pulled the engine to do the job the right way. The job is done and everything is back together, but the CEL is on and so far he has been unable to figure out why.

    I was hoping maybe you might have a revelation, or at least a few specific things that I could have him look for. I am going nuts w/out my car!!!

    Thanks so much for any help you can provide.

    Sincerely,
    Greg

    1. If you have a read at anyone of the check engine light articles, you will see that the light is just that , its meaningless to me to try and help you, you need to know the codes every time the light comes on.

      Justin

  280. I have a 2007 outback, with 109K, which I bought new. I was told the HG is “seeping” by the dealership, but that it is not vital to have it fixed immediately because it could seep for “years”… We replaced the battery and it is scheduled to have the coolant drained and replaced with the next oil change. Do I need to be worried about the head gasket now? Or do I really have some time?

    1. If you have a HG seeping oil, while a battery and coolant service are all good maintenance, neither will help with a small oil leak.

      I cant begin to give you a “how long will it last” type estimate without seeing it for myself

      Justin

      1. Thank you. Some things I read seemed to indicate that not changing the coolant often enough or properly maintaining the battery could contribute to HG problems, but based on your response I gather that’s not the case.

        You have a great blog and I appreciate your response!

  281. Hi Justin,
    Quick question, that I’m sure you’ve had many times…I have a 2002 Forester, runs great, 60k miles, bought from Salem dealership about 8 months ago, but now when I get my free oil changes at the same dealership they say the head gaskets are leaking. I’m guessing they simply saw external leaking. How do I know when I really need the gaskets replaced, or is the external visual of leaking oil enough reason to have it done? At only 60k miles I’m wondering if it’s something I can wait on? They’re suggesting new belts as well. What would you’re shop charge for new timing belt, AC Belt etc. and head gasket fixing?
    Thank you.

    1. I do get this question all the time, and if it was here I could help answer it, as its not all I can say is if its oil seeping from the head gaskets you have some time, how much time I don’t know from here.

      What I suggest is make the repairs when you can afford to, and let us monitor it as you budget for the repairs, if it gets worse and starts to leak coolant do it now. Because we cant monitor it fro you my advise is find someone who can, and the Dealer really doesn’t want to do that, they just want to slam out a customer pay HG repair. If it over heats it will cost more than it would have to do it early.

      This is the Classic trap however, sell a car then 8 months later tell you it needs a big repair, while having you return for “free oil changes”.

      If you are serious about making the trip from Salem to us for a professional repair you can request a quote through our website, if not you would be better serviced to look for a good Subaru Shop there and ask them how much.

      Hop that helps

      Justin

  282. Hi Justin,

    I’m glad I found your blog. I have a 98 Forester and have had a heck of a time trying to figure out exactly what’s wrong with it – while spending hundreds of dollars with trial and error. It only has 79K mi. In any case, symptoms:

    1. Temp gauge had been erratic and it finally overheated on me on the freeway. Had it towed to shop. There was also no heat on idle.
    2. Radiator blew, replaced radiator and used OEM fluid. Drove fine at pick up.
    3. After a couple of days of driving, temp gauge erratic again. Would drive fine until getting on freeway – okay on freeway, but temp would spike after exiting freeway, slowing down or idle. Also, no heat again on idle.
    4. Took it back to shop, they replaced thermostat and said that there is now heat on idle. I tested upon picking up and heat was back on idle. However, driving it home – same exact thing happened again: okay on freeway but temp spikes after exiting, slow down and idle.

    I had also notified the shop that there is oily residue in coolant reservoir, but oil is not milky. They said it’s not the end of the world to have some residue in the reservoir due to age of vehicle.

    Is the head gasket my problem? I’d hate to try any more trial and error fixes as I’ve already spent a ton of money on this. It only has 79K mi. and would like to keep if as long as I know that I can get this fixed once and for all.

    Thoughts? Please help! Thank you so much!

    1. WOW

      “I had also notified the shop that there is oily residue in coolant reservoir, but oil is not milky. They said it’s not the end of the world to have some residue in the reservoir due to age of vehicle.”

      Time to find a new shop, they couldn’t be more incorrect.

      You most likely had an internal HG issue the first visit, the ENGINE OIL in the COOLANT reservoir was the first clue as it does not belong there. The oil is from the Combustion chamber no the oil galley’s.

      I just don’t know what to say, this is just nothing that should puzzle a good technician, there are some basics of the internal combustion engine that have been lost on so many.

      I am sorry you have had the experience you have had, from here you need to find a Subaru Shop, and that’s really all there is to it.

      Justin

  283. I had the head gaskets replaced on my 2003 Forester at 67,000 miles. The work was done at my local Subaru dealer. Due to piston slap, scaring was noticed on 2 cylinder walls and a remanufactured short block was also installed. All covered by warranty. My impression is that they were very diligent in their work.

    I am now at 102,000 miles. I recently had the clutch replaced at a local shop (non dealer). They advised that the head gaskets are going. Is this possible? Or are they just seeing the seeping on the cylinder heads, etc. from the last issue?

    With the timing belt coming up shortly, I’m trying to decide if it is worth spending the money.

    This site is a great resource. Only wish that I was closer.

    1. Hi Randy,

      I am a broken record here but the Subaru Dealer is really not a good choice for repairs, its just not what they are good at. I know the marketing message is that they are the experts, but the pay/politics/profit-model prevents a good repair at a Dealer.

      Most likely they are just leaking oil, also if they had done a good job, and you had replaced the timing belt with the HG repair you wouldn’t be doing it for years to come. I guess what I am trying to convey is look for a good Subaru Shop, and let them tackle the repairs in a complete way not leaving something to be done in a few years, you will be money ahead.

      I would try to get a sense of when they need to be done, and combine that with the Timing belt service.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  284. Hey,
    Have a 2001 Forester, and we replaced the head gaskets at 123K. Now at 156K, the same repair shop (authorized Subaru) is telling me they need to be replaced again. I love the car & the repair shop, but shouldn’t that 123K replacement have lasted a bit longer? I get regular service and don’t have a corroded battery, lol. In the PNW up north of you :). Thanks for any thoughts!

    1. Hello Amy,

      I have actually had to answer this a lot lately. Yes it should have lasted longer, but not when repaired at a Subaru Dealership.

      I am a broken record here but the Subaru Dealer is really not a good choice for repairs, its just not what they are good at. I know the marketing message is that they are the experts, but the pay/politics/profit-model prevents a good repair at a Dealer.

      Most likely they are just leaking oil and may still have some time left, but without seeing it I just cant answer that factually, also I don’t suggest the use of Subaru Head gaskets when repairing the SOHC Subaru 2.5l because they will just leak again, we prefer the Six Star gasket and feel confident that if repaired properly at a good Independent Subaru Shop, it wont have a second issue or in your case third..

      Sorry you have not gotten much value out of the last repair

      Justin

      1. Thanks Justin–
        I will discuss with them tomorrow (it isn’t actually the dealer but an independent Subaru shop and I know they used Subaru heads last time), and I may make an appointment just to bring it down to your shop for this job, 70 mile drive now vs. 2K in repairs in another 30K miles, ha! Thanks for the help.
        Amy

  285. I love your blog…excellent work!

    I am looking at a 1998 subaru Outback (loaded for it’s time)

    It’s got 198,000 miles, newly installed transmission,

    No evidence of any kind of head gasket problem…

    $2500…….

    What are your thoughts?

  286. Hello Justin I am Big Subaru fan. I just gave my son a 1993 subaru legacy turbo wagon that I have owned since new. I always wanted to purchase a Subaru Svx since they came out many years ago. A friend of mine has a 1994 with 100,000 that is in excellent condition. He converted the car to a 5 speed manual. I do not really see any mention of Subaru Svx on your site, so I am thinking that they are very good cars. I would like to know if there are any major problems with the Subaru Svx (such as head gaskets or other major problems). I am aware that they did have some problems with the automatic transmission, and this is the reason that my friends car was converted to a 5 speed. I am also planning to buy my wife a 2002-2007 Subaru Wrx Turbo, as a commuter car, and I would like to know if any of the turbo models in those years had any head gasket issues. If you have the time can you also tell me what year wrx came with the 2.0 engine? (I hear that those motors are very strong). On a different note I would like to say that I enjoy looking through your site, and am glad that you take time out of your day to answer our questions, and give us all of this free Subaru knowledge.

    1. Hi Anthony,

      The reason for limited SVX articles is there were just not that may made.

      The SVX do have terrible Auto transmissions, and really expensive windshields. They are decent cars, I have always liked the 3.3l engine, but they are very difficult to obtain parts for, so I cant suggest it for a daily driver anymore, it needs to be your second car, as when things come up the parts down time is long.

      No major HG issues with the WRX, but any WRX you consider should have a good inspection, also be aware that an inter-cooled Turbo engine makes more HP, but this comes at a cost to longevity.

      The 2.0l was phased out beginning in 2006.

      Justin

  287. After reading all these comments I wanted to post. I was ASE certified from 1974-2009 and am very high on maintenace. I have a 2001 Chevy Blazer with 135,000 miles on it. I always change the oil every 3,000, the transmission, brake and power steering fluid and antifreeze is flushed every 24,000. I have never had to replace any of the major related parts and that is due to being vigilant with maintenance. I agree with Justin about warranty. When my warranty was up at 75,000 miles, I paid whatever was needed after that. Warranties are not forever and there comes a time when you just have to relize, if the monthly costs of repairing a vehicle are in excess of a new car payment, then you must consider purchasing a new vehicle.

  288. Thanks for responding to my questions Justin. I just purchased a 2000 Subaru Impreza Outback with a 160,000 miles off the original owner and it never had a head gasket problem. I am planning to do a complete rebuild of the engine and would like to know where I can purchase a good head gasket kit? I was looking on your website for a Six Star Head Gasket kit, but you don’t sell it for the 2.2 engine. Does the dealer sell a More improved head gasket kit compared to what came on the car from the factory?

  289. Hello I am planning on buying my daughter a used car to commute back and forth from college to our house. My brother owns a used car lot and he has two subaru’s for sale. The first one is a 1993 Subaru impreza with a 1.8 engine one owner car and has service records since new. The other subaru is a 1997 Subaru impreza with a 2.2 engine also a one owner car very well maintained. I would like to purchase a car that will not have the notorious head gasket problems that subaru’s are known for, and am asking which is the better choice? I have been told that the 1.8 engine is a very under powered engine and will not be able to handle the buffalo ny snow. Are any of these engines known for having head gasket problems?

    1. You are talking about a 1993 Subaru its 20 years old, you need to plan on some items needing to be done either on the 1997 or the 1993. Id buy which ever one checked out the best by having a pre purchase inspection performed.

      Justin

  290. Hello Justin I am looking to purchase a 1996-2001 subaru impreza or a 2000-2003 Subaru outback. I currently own a 1998 subaru outback. I have owned this car for about 4 years. I bought it with 96K miles and it currently has 181,000 miles. Head gaskets were changed at 168,000. The head gasket work was done by a child hood friend of mine who is an engine rebuilder for the last 22 years. The car was involved in a collision and is not worth fixing. Im looking to purchase a 1996-2001 subaru impreza with the 2.2 engine or a 2000-2003 Subaru Outback. I will be purchasing one with high miles and getting the engine completely rebuilt by my friend. I have a few questions to ask. First, Which is a better model to buy the Impreza or Outback? 2nd what is the difference between the engine in a 1996 Impreza and a 2001 impreza? and which is a better engine the 1996 or 2001? I owned a 1996 Subaru Impreza many years ago and it lasted to 300,000 miles. I really love the 2000-2003 Outbacks but do not want to buy one if is not dependable like the 1996 2.2 Impreza Outbacks. I take care very good care of my car and I am looking for something to last me until 300,000 miles. Whatever car I purchase I will be buying the head gasket kits from Allwheeldriveauto. You guys have awesome reviews. I wish I lived closer so I can take my subie to ALL Wheel Drive Auto.

    1. Hi Johhny

      Sorry to hear about the Car accident, and I hope you are ok, which based on your hunt for another Subaru makes me think the first one took care of you.

      The 1996 is still the first gen 2.2l design, the 2001 the Second gen 2.2l, I prefer the first for simplicity, but the second for the power increases.

      The 2.5 in the Outback is a good engine as well, especially if you use the Six star HG at the rebuild stage. Its really going to come down to the way the car it self checks out, and if you want the larger Outback, or the smaller size of the Impreza. The 1996 will have less to go wrong, but brings less options with it as well.

      Justin

  291. Justin,

    My single owner 99 Outback with 210K miles just blew the right side HG (first time following years of sound maintenance). My buddy’s 2009 Outback HG blew under warranty. My wife’s 2009 Outback now beyond warranty awaits the failure.

    My point to Subaru owners. Subaru still has a design flaw. At $26K plus per copy that’s unacceptable. I’ve pushed five cars from new (mix of BMW, VW and Suzuki product) well beyond 300K miles with zero major maintenance issues on any of these vehicles.

    While I appreciate your insight… Subaru isn’t getting any more of my vehicle purchases. All the best. Cheers!

    1. Hi Jim,

      Couple of points

      The 99 Outback with 210k has had an internal failure with the Head gasket, you could call that a “blown Head gasket” and if a repair at 210k has you upset, well ok. Your Buddies 2009 has an external oil leak, and no you may not call that a “blown head gasket”, you can call it an oil leak.

      So I dont intend to call you a liar, but I will say the following.

      You really claim to have owned a BMW for 300k and didn’t have high ownership costs? Was it newer than 1996? I have never seen any data to suggest there is a BMW that did not require higher maintenance costs, let alone purchase price, than a same era Subaru Im not saying its not possible, just that it would be the exception. A long time friend of mine is a master Technician at a local BMW Dealer, they are great cars to drive but are in fact expensive cars to own and some have a tendency to develop oil leaks at the Head gaskets so to me its curious to complain about a potential HG issue by making comparisons to a car that costs 5 figures more to buy and many (but not all) have had problems with the very area of the car you are afraid of. By the way which model BMW-AWD was it, and what was the sticker price? When there is a 25k BMW-AWD that costs less to own than a Subaru then we can have a BMW is the better option post, until then its just the more expensive one. When I look at thinks like how much it costs to replace brakes, how much a 30k service is Subaru VS BMW i cant make the math work in the BMW’s favor for lower ownership costs.

      My wife was a service Advisor at a VW dealer for many years before stepping away when we started a family, we are still friends with many in the service department so again I have inherent knowledge about what types of issues the cars truly have by asking the folks who service them for a living. Just like if you ask any Subaru tech they will tell you they can develop HG leaks, a VW tech will tell you what he or she sees with VW and the various models.

      I wont even go there with the Suzuki, one of the worse cars for safety I have ever come across. Manufactures that have vehicles banned should raise concern. Suzuki has never seems all that concerned with safety and Subaru has.

      My point in all of this is, I dont try to tell anyone that Subaru’s wont cost money to own, rather just the opposite, but because I have “industry wide knowledge” I can also factually point out deficiencies in other makes and models when given the chance. Because I have been given no specific year and model info I have posted some thoughts and opinions.

      Everyone has their own set of priorities when it comes to cars, some want AWD, some want safety, some want fuel economy etc.

      The H engine has its design, you can call it a flaw if you would like. There are total platform gains in the way of the center of gravity, symmetrical AWD, and safety that the H engine design brings to the table, but yes it may require HG replacement but its incorrect to think that no other call will. If a possible HG issue, not a guarantee you will need one scares you off that’s ok but understand you have three real choices currently, Audi, Subaru, Volvo, or you don’t need real AWD and if you don’t, do not buy a Subaru. I think all three have there marks in the plus and minus column.

      Justin

  292. Justin,

    The six star head gasket kit you supplied is now installed and we are running around again. Our mechanic was impressed with the quality of the items. The installation cost was less than I expected at $1200. One final question: do we need to add the Subaru conditioner to the coolant?

    Many thanks for all your help.

  293. are the 2013 subaru forrester with normal 2.5 okay for head gasket otherwords is the head gasket problems fixed also do the valves have to be adjusted or are they have lash adjusters.

  294. I have a 99 Forester with 120K with a HG problem. I bought it used in 01 (with about 60K)have had the clutch and tramsmission replaced.

    I’m planning on buying a new car and like Subarus best in terms of the way they drive and the fact that there seem to be more of them out there that are manual than most other reliable SUVs/wagons.

    My question is: Since I want a car that I can drive for 10yrs+ with few repairs, but mostly make short trips, is another Forester or Outback right for me? what should i look for? 2004 or later? How much mileage is too much if you say less mileage contributes to the HG problem?

    1. Hi Tracey,

      So there isn’t much difference between a 1999 Forester and a 2004, your going to pay a lot for the same fuel economy and platform in a slightly shinier package. If you want a new car Id look to the 2011 and newer with the newer engine, and the better fuel economy at least that way you are actually buying an improvement.

      The are Three real AWD vehicles Subaru , Audi and Volvo. Subaru is the most reliable and costs the least to own then the other two, but if you dont need true AWD or the safety of a Subaru there are many vehicles to explore.

      Because I am not a car salesman, but instead work on cars I can tell you that there is no vehicle exempt from service and repairs after 120,000 miles, (some will need lots much sooner) but any car you purchase if you take a lot of short trips should have more maintenance then a car driven at high way speeds most of the time.

      I struggle with how to advise you, Im not sure if few repairs means “I cant have vehicle down time” or if its a fear thing or the money part of it, but buying newer used means your paying to hopefully not make repairs, and buying new means that any repairs needed will be covered by the vehicle maker for a period of time because you prepaid for them already when you bought the new car.

      I like to try and keep as much of my money as I can, I realize I cant get up in the morning and turn on the lights without it costing money, so any advise I tend to give is with the mind set of what will cost the least amount of money over a longer period of time. My advice to you is to actually consider keeping the Subaru for another 5 to 10 years, unless there is something I am not aware of the prevents that form being realistic. If it truly is time to buy another car and you are thinking Subaru I would look to the new engines and the CVT transmissions.

      Justin

  295. Justin,
    5 days ago I got my water pump, thermostat, timing belt and hoses replaced by my mechanic on my 04 forester. I also got my 60,000 mile service done which includes a coolant flush. I took it to sears today to get new tires, they inspected the car at Sears and they said the coolant failed the ph test. How could have the coolant gone bad already? Does this have to do with the special coolant conditioner used in subarus? did my cooling system not get properly flushed? or is this a sign of a larger problem looming? I’ve driven the car every day since the repair. My commute to work is mostly hilly highway and about 40 miles each way. No overheating issues since the car was serviced.

    1. Hi Drew,

      I don’t know at this point that it did. It would be best to take it up with the shop that did the service work.

      I will add that the large chain stores are known for selling every type of fluid flush service there is even when its not needed.

      I will add that I sincerely hope it DID NOT receive a flush as that is a huge no no in a Subaru, if it did get flushed and it was a machine that is also used to service other makes and models other than Subaru’s than yes you may have a PH problem now.

      Justin

  296. I have a 98 Subaru Forrester with blown HG, do you know of any one that has used Steel Seal additive run through the radiator that fixes the problem?

  297. Hello Justin:
    I found your blog when I started looking for information regarding my 2.2l 1999 Subaru Outback Impreza Sport, and the problems I had with the headgasket.
    I read quite a bit of the good information you have taken the time to put on your blog, very informative. Thank you. I’m relating my experiences with my Subaru in the hopes that you can shed some light on my experience relative to the reputation of Subaru for reliability, as I have been considering continuing my Subaru ownership with another car. A telephone call to Subaru was not enlightening with regard to the possibility of the headgasket issue being resolved in the newest Subarus.
    I’m an electronic technician with 25 years in my field and understand the need to service machinery, and maintained the car well when I had it, and it seemed the previous owner did too. I also understand that sometimes things break!

    I originally bought the car because it was the right size to put a wheelchair in the hatchback. This was my first Subaru and I bought it for these reasons, the wheelchair, overall length, and 4 cylinder engine. I got my drivers license over 35 years ago, it took me a while to move to Subaru!
    I had been planning to drive the car through the winter of 2012/2013 and then buy a new Subaru Impreza 2.0 hatchback. I don’t need to move a wheelchair anymore but find a hatchback useful.
    But as I was driving off on vacation in the autumn, the clutch started to slip.
    I left it with a trusted local mechanic and took another vehicle. Almost 3 weeks passed before the mechanic had a chance to look at the car. When he started it up a huge white cloud of smoke came out of the exhaust. The car had 180k miles and clearly it was not worth fixing at this point. I am located in New York and there was more rust than usual on the car. On the one hand, I was sorry the clutch went, but I was glad the head gasket went before I fixed the clutch, not days after! Incidentally the car would not drive down the road anymore. To be exact I tried to get home from the mechanic, one mile, so I could junk the car at my convenience, but it slowed and died before I got home, and the car had to be towed and disposed of.
    It was disconcerting to have the car going from running and driving to being a junker with very little warning. There were no indications the HG was going.

    I have been reading your comments on the maintenance costs of keeping a Subaru, and trying to see how that figures in my case, is my car typical or is it a bit more “challenged”.
    I bought the car for $4100, and I spent $600-$1000 a year in repairs for 4 years, and drove 50,000 miles. Say $3200 overall. This would figure to about six cents a mile for repairs.
    And then I came up against the clutch and headgasket costs. Would it be correct to add the costs of headgasket and clutch to the other repair costs to figure the cost of owning this car? I’m not sure about this, especially since I did not pay to have them fixed.
    Since this happened I have been rethinking my plan to buy a new Subaru.
    I was disappointed in the expense to keep this car, and the fact that it left me stranded in difficult conditions twice has not further endeared me to the brand.
    I bought the car from a licensed Motor Vehicle Dealer in New York who only sells used Subarus. When I bought the car he told me this model year did not have the headgasket problem.
    Now that I have read your blog I understand this was not correct.
    The clutch had 20,000 miles on it when I got the car, and it always had a jitter in it when engaging. I’m a very careful driver and was surprised when the clutch went so soon.
    The previous owner was “older” also and bought the car new.

    I drove the New Impreza, but the coupe, and it’s a very different car than the 1999.
    I could not relate to the new finishes. The odd location of the chrome parking brake handle reminded me of an Austin Healey.
    I drove the premium level car but did not think anything about the trim level deserved that label.
    I really had planned to buy the new Subaru, so I am having a hard time giving up the idea, but am more than a bit uncertain now that I have had a chance to reflect.

    I would like to buy the 2013 Impreza 2.0 hatchback, but since my experience I am not confident in the engineering of the Subaru, but perhaps I am being unrealistic.
    I was trying to recollect if any of the other cars I had driven since the 1970’s had left me stranded for mechanical failures, but I could not remember this happening once. I have to believe my MGB did this but I don’t remember it!
    My Subaru did this to me twice.
    I’m not writing today to ask you to defend the brand, just looking for some input on the new Subarus and my Subaru ownership experience.

    Thank you for this great resource!

  298. Justin,

    Many thanks for a fantastic site, very informative indeed, it has been a great help.

    I think I have the classic case of an internal HG leak with my 98 Forester. Oil in coolant, engine overheating after about 10 minutes of driving with expansion tank filling with coolant, then have to stop and let cool down. My mechanic has checked the cylinder head pressures – seem OK, also no obvious bubbling in the expansion tank so he thought if there is a HD leak it was not obvious. Replaced the thermostat but no improvement. Is there anything else left to check or should I just commit to having it replaced?

      1. Justin,

        I read the article – many thanks. This what we are planning.

        Do you have an opinion on Fel-Pro head gaskets as opposed to the OE or six stars?

          1. Thanks again for the prompt responses.

            If I order a set of HG gaskets for a 98 Forester from you how long is the delivery time? I am in Galena Illinois.

  299. Hi Justin,
    Thanks for the valuable site and your assistance. I have learned so much for the posts just on this link.

    I have a 2000 Outback 2.5i with 107,000 miles on it. I am original owner. Have had regular maintenance but still many of the “typical” Subaru problems to deal with over the years.

    Last year at 98,200 miles, I needed valve cover gasket replaced, sparks/plugs replaced and fuel filter (independent mechanic). The cracked valve cover had casued quite a bit of spray/leakage which had made a mess of the engine/undercarriage and causing some exhaust smell thru HVAC. 3 months later, at 99,300 miles, I had major maintenace – fluids replaced, 2nd CV axle, timing belts, new brakes, etc.. ALL OEM PARTS. This was in December 2011 and pretty cold already here in Idaho and I commented to mechanic I was also smelling fuel smell, sometimes exhaust smell, when idling and heater/outside vents going. He checked this out after I brought it back a week later and couldn’t find anything, basically said I just had too sensitive of a nose. He did perform additional manual “cleaning” in the engine, thinking the previously mentioned valve cover leaks and 2 cracked CV axles/hoods were causing the smells.

    Approx. 4 months later at oil change (quick-lube place…I know, not recommended and will avoid in future), they commented I might have an oil pan leak. I thought they were still noticing residual oil from previous valve seal problems and didn’t really worry about it. However, I was beginning to notice a small amount of oil drips lately on my garage floor.

    Fast forward to this past month with return of cold weather, and denser air. I have been noticing fuel smell again when idling and outside vents/heater going. Took in to a different mechanic shop to check this out and the oil drips, and get oil change and he gave me the bad news – (and showed it to me).

    Head gasket warped and leaking externally. Coolant not involved at this point. His repair quote was $3,400. Includes full engine pull, but also replacing all timing belts that I just had done 8,000 miles ago with the major service. Said he couldn’t warranty his job without replacing the TB’s even though the current are OEM quality and almost brand new. This still seems excessive. I had them steam clean the whole engine for now and will keep a close eye on how soon the seepage starts up again.

    He also spent considerable time diagnosing the raw fuel smell (which btw, he could detect unlike the previous mechanic so it wasn’t all in my head – or sniffer :). He found a small crack in the top of the fuel pump module housing, to the tune of $600 to repair. Could have been a lot worse – like replacing the whole fuel tank or line. The workaround for this issue is to keep the gas tank no more than 1/2 full as crack near top of housing. Is the fuel pump/housing a weak point with Subaru’s like the HG’s? I had a whole fuel pump assbly replaced after just 4,300 miles back in 2000 as connector on assbly completed burned off and my car died 3months after I bought it.

    I also need new shocks and struts – got quote of just under $1,000.

    I have read through other post and your responses and I understand the valid argument of repairs vs. buying another vehicle (this time would do 1-3 years old). I haven’t gotten a second quote yet, but $5,000 in repairs in one fell swoop is a BIG chunk of change for a 13-year old car. I am concerned about running in to more big problems that will exceed your proposed average $1,500/year maintenance costs. I AM responding emotionally. Hard not to laying out that kind of cash. It is tempting to cut my losses. At times, I wish I’d gone to automotive repair school instead of nursing so I could do the repairs myself!

    Obviously, from some of your recent posts, $3,400 for HG (even incl TB’s, etc.) seems quite elevated.

    My questions for you include:

    1. In the Boise area, what would be reasonable cost – parts and labor total, for: a) HG replacement with the recommended 6-Star kit; b) shocks and struts; and c) fuel pump module/housing

    2. Do you have any recommendations for repair shop in Boise valley area that you could email me with?

    3. Do replacement HG’s parts have the same issues? Or are they better than the factory-installed parts. In other words, will I need to worry about replacing it again in a few years (assuming all needed fluid maintenance is being done correctly).

    4. I will contact Subaru even though the WWP-99 closed per your earlier posts. I do not remember ever getting recall notice on this. Any advice on how best to approach it with them and trying to get some help from them? Does it have to be a dealership doing the repair, if so, or authorized independent mechanic (if this exists)?

    5. Do I really need to replace all the timing belts again with the HG replacement?

    6. Do you ever provide (ballpark) estimates via email? I would seriously consider driving over to your shop in Washington for repairs. Then I could stop by IKEA on my way back home 🙂

    Thanks for any help you can give me and I apologize for the VERY long post.

    Cyndi

    1. Hello Cyndi,

      First off the HG issue is not the Fuel smell, thats a seperate issue, and that may still be an un diagnosed condition you have.

      Please read this https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-fuel-smell-a-quick-tip/

      “1. In the Boise area, what would be reasonable cost – parts and labor total, for: a) HG replacement with the recommended 6-Star kit; b) shocks and struts; and c) fuel pump module/housing”

      I just cant answer the prices in Boise thing, I would have to get on the phone and call around to know how much it costs where you live, sorry.

      “2. Do you have any recommendations for repair shop in Boise valley area that you could email me with?”

      No I am sorry but I just live in my little corner of the NW, and don’t know anyone other than the 3 or 4 local Subaru Competitors to me here, and I cant suggest any of them either.

      “3. Do replacement HG’s parts have the same issues? Or are they better than the factory-installed parts. In other words, will I need to worry about replacing it again in a few years (assuming all needed fluid maintenance is being done correctly).”

      Not if its done here, or by a shop like us using a better Head Gasket.

      “4. I will contact Subaru even though the WWP-99 closed per your earlier posts. I do not remember ever getting recall notice on this. Any advice on how best to approach it with them and trying to get some help from them? Does it have to be a dealership doing the repair, if so, or authorized independent mechanic (if this exists)?”

      It most likely would have to go to a Subaru Dealership for Subaru to participate, there have been exceptions to this, but its case by case.

      5. Do I really need to replace all the timing belts again with the HG replacement?

      I dont know without seeing them, but the question that comes up is if the belt and components are left alone and if there’s a problem with the belt, tensioner or idler post HG repair who pays for it? This came up for us a while back, and the customer hates us even though we clearly suggested the belt and idlers, but because a general aftermarket shop replaced them she wouldn’t let us put The Subaru parts back in, 14 months later one of the idlers seized and somehow that’s our fault. See its the customer like I just mentioned that makes it so a good shop cant properly work with you, we have to go into defensive mode and worry about all the what ifs. Here we would still leave it up to you, but you have to understand there is no warranty provided on any part we did not replace.

      “6. Do you ever provide (ballpark) estimates via email? I would seriously consider driving over to your shop in Washington for repairs. Then I could stop by IKEA on my way back home.”

      Yes Ikea is a fun trip, we do provide estimates and can offer a competent repair but it would be vague estimate without seeing the car, and I doubt the fuel pup thing, doesn’t make sense to me but who knows it ma once I have seen it.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

    1. Kenny, where are you at in VA? I live in
      Louisa county and I use a great independent shop for my two Subes and my Toyota Prius. If you’re near by I can hook you up with them.

  300. I have a 1999 Forester. The timing belt went at 186,000 miles. A leak down test showed the right gasket to have 100% leak and the left 5% leak. I believe I need the right gasket replaced and a new timing belt put in. I wanted to know if this is correct and what this should cost. I have received a quote of 2500, stating I needed both gaskets replaced, while another shop said I needed to put in another engine.

    1. Jon,

      You mean the timing belt went, and you have been advised there is 100% leakage to a valve that is bent not a head gasket, the two do not correlate that way.

      You need to have a complete valve job both sides, all required gaskets and seals, and all new timing components so you don’t have the issue happen again by not doing the job complete.

      Justin

  301. I am told that my wife’s 2006 Outback is leaking oil near the head gasket. How can I know where to take her car for service? I don’t want to spend the money unless I get a quality repair . Should I just use a Subaru dealer or how would you recommend looking for someone who really knows Subarus?

    Thanks.

  302. I own a 2006 Forester 2.5x with 99k miles on it which is still under warranty. Took the car to a Subaru dealer for a timing belt change and they told me right side head gasket has a small leak and is “wet”..that’s how they described it on the work order. Said they cleaned it up and will reinspect on next visit. Since I still have some time left on warranty didn’t push the repair issue. After reading the posts is it safe to say this is the first sign of head gasket failure since the dealer may say when they reinspect it that some leaking and or staining is acceptable and not covered under warranty?

  303. Hello Justin, I have a 2005 outback 2.5i and needed my head gaskets repaired at 50,000 miles in 2010. I was just told they needed to be replaced again at 69,000 miles. How is this possible? Can the head gaskets fail again in such a short amount of miles driven?

    1. Hi Linda,

      I am sorry to hear that, while I cant specifically comment on to what happened with out seeing the car, and taking the engine apart, I can only assume it was done at a Dealer, by a Tech in a hurry and with the Engine still in the Car?

      If that wasn’t the set of circumstances, there are other possibilities, none of which really help now and I realize this is frustrating.

      Sorry I cant offer more.

      Justin

  304. Hi Justin. Thank you for all of the great information you provide. It is truly invaluable. I’m hoping you can give me some advice. I have a 1999 Outback 2.5L, which I think is the 1st gen. I’ve only had it about a year and I’m removing the engine to fix a few oil leaks, the main one being the oil separator plate on the back of the block (at least I think that’s where its coming from). Since I will have the engine out, I am doing several other things mainly because of ease of access. I am considering doing the head gaskets although they show no signs of failing so far. I have 140K miles on the car and according to the (pretty detailed) service record. they have never been replaced. Numerous people, including mechanics (albeit not Subaru mechanics) have told me not to touch the head gaskets if they are not failing. I wanted to get your take on this. With the engine out, should I change the head gaskets or leave them alone.

    1. I wanted to also say that I;m sorry if you’ve already answered this question. I looked through all the comments and couldn’t find this exact questions. I did see a comment that suggested that not all Subarus have HG issues and that if it hasn’t gone bad yet it likely won’t. At this point, I’m leaning toward not touching them.

      1. Hi Daniel,

        That does come up for us as well, we actually will suggest doing the Head Gasket as pm since were so close when the engine is out. Its really up to the customer, because you have a first Gen and they fail internally its much harder to spot the beginning of a failure. Can you identify if they have ever been done, do you see rivets or crimps at the Head gaskets?

        Hope that helps

        Justin

        1. Thanks for the quick reply Justin. I was looking closely today to see if I could gauge how old the gaskets were. I honestly couldn’t tell but if pressed I would have to say they are original. I don’t see any rivets. This may be due to an untrained eye but they don’t look like they’re made out of steel to me. I’ll be able to look more closely once I get the engine out.

          1. Hi Daniel,

            Yes they are still the O.E. Subaru Head Gaskets, if it was here we would suggest replacing them, as they could very well be on borrowed time, you can confirm this by looking in the coolant overflow bottle for any signs or grunge or oil.

            Hope that helps

            Justin

  305. Justin, first: You rock! You are really helping a lot of people with your information. It’s super – thank you! I have read all this stuff into the wee hours several nights in a row while doing my hunt for a new car for our family.

    I’m going to very likely pick up a 2000 outback with 55k in San Fran tomorrow for $8k. Apparently “Mommy’s old car”. I’ve made notes of your 4 main tips (change oil & coolant frequently, use Sub. coolant stuff, monitor battery, etc).

    I have no problem using an independent mechanic who’s a subie specialist for any upcoming repairs, but since this looks like it’s got the 2.5 engine, assuming I do get a leak and have to get it fixed, is the OEM gasket good enough for a solid fix (assuming it’s repaired correctly as you mentioned).

    Anything else I may need to check out?
    Thanks again!
    -pat

    1. I prefer the Six Star Gasket over the O.E.

      But if that’s what the shop wants to use, and they will make the repair correctly you should be fine there really is no perfect situation, just the best you can manage where you live.

      Based on the age I would plan on the timing components and water pump but other than that you should be Ok.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  306. Has subaru updated their headgaskets to a multilayered steel one? Had an independent subaru repair shop here tell me thats an option as well as the six star ones.

    1. In 2010 with the Outback, Subaru finally went to a MLS gasket in the 2.5l SOHC, they are however not backwards compatible. Some Subaru Dealers have been installing and selling the 2004 to 2009 Turbo 2.5l Gaskets for use in the SOHC, but I have seen some problems with this due to the fact the gaskets are actually meant for a semi closed Deck engine block and your SOHC 2.5l is an open deck block..

      The Six star gaskets are the best way to go for your Forester and you can buy them here.

      Thanks

      Justin

  307. I have a ’98 Forester with the overheating problem, head gasket leak into the cooling system. I will be doing the repair work myself (I have been a real heavy duty mechanic in my past life) but don’t really want to do both sides if I don’t have to. Do you recommend changing both head gaskets as a matter of course or is it OK to change just the failed one? And how would one determine which side is faulty? Thanks very much, you are providing an invaluable service to Subaru owners with your forum. Also, can the work be done with the engine in place or is it necessary to remove it from the frame?

  308. Hi Justin,

    Firstly, fair play to you for providing this service. I’m tempted to make a bad joke about good car-ma, but I’ll resist.

    When you get a chance I’d love to hear your opinion of the following:

    I’m in Australia, yesterday I looked at a 1998 Outback (manual) with 267,000km on the clock.
    – Timing belt was replaced 40,000 km ago
    – New AWD system installed 30,000 km ago
    – Suspension re-done recently
    – New tyres
    – Guy claimed the HG hasn’t gone
    – Engine looks nice and clean, as does underneath
    – Comes with log-book, though I didn’t have a proper look through it

    I test drove it up to 80km/hour, drove well & didn’t notice it overheating.

    The guy is looking for about US$5000 for it.

    I was all ready to go for it, but then started researching online – uh oh…

    I expect that even if he’s telling the truth about the head gasket, before long I’d have to replace it soon either way. Which means another maybe $2000, am I right?

    I understand that I can check for HG problems by checking the oil cap for creamy foam and checking the coolant for oil -is that correct?

    Basically, I’m thinking that it would be a bad idea to buy it, even though it seems mechanically very good.

    Your thoughts?

    Thanks very much for your time Justin, kind regards,
    – Niall

    1. Hello Niall,

      “I understand that I can check for HG problems by checking the oil cap for creamy foam and checking the coolant for oil -is that correct?”

      No that’s not correct you would need to look for the presence of Hydrocarbons in the Exhaust to know if an internal leak was developing in the Head Gasket.

      You can use your nose and try to smell for exhaust in the cooling system or take it to someone with an exhaust gas analyzer and the knowledge of how to use it to look for an internal Hg issue.

      There is some gamble on buying the car if it has not had the repair to the HG done yet, but having said that it may go years and never need it.

      Justin

  309. Hi Justin,

    Thank you so much for all the valuable information you’ve provided here for free. I’ve gone through and read as much as I could but could not find a specific answer to a question that I had so was wondering if you could help.

    I’m looking to buy a 2004 Forester XS with 84K miles from an independent dealer who himself got the car from a Subaru dealer when the previous owner traded it in a couple months ago.

    After the independent dealer got the car, he had his local auto repair shop (not a Subaru specialist) do a full inspection of the car this past month. During the inspection, they noticed an oil leak so they replaced the head gasket (they also replaced the timing belt, water pump, multi rib belt, and thermostat).

    On the invoice, it states that the R&R Cylinder head gasket was sent to a machine shop where they resurfaced heads, did a valve job, and replaced valve steam seals.

    According to the independent dealer who is selling the car and who gave me a copy of the invoice from the repair shop, he had these things done because he has an arrangement with the shop for them to do his repairs for a cheaper price and he prefers to make what repairs the shop recommends in order to make the car more easy to sell.

    My question to you is how can I be sure that the repairs that were made (especially the gasket repair) were done well and that I won’t have any more gasket problems as you’ve mentioned before that a poor gasket repair will start leaking again? I plan to bring the car to an independent Subaru specialist for an inspection. Will they be able to notice if the work that was done was done well? Can they also tell if the parts that were used for all the repairs were quality parts? From reading the invoice, it looks like only one head gasket was done. Is that going to be a problem potentially if the other one needs to be done? Should I go to repair shop myself and ask them the questions you suggested about how the job was done?

    Sorry for the absurd length of this note but just one final question. One of the things the shop replaced after their inspection was the A/C Compressor but in the invoice, it stated that they put in a used A/C Compressor. Is that a potential cause for concern?

    Thanks so much for any thoughts, help, or suggestions you can provide. I’m going to take the car to get looked at by a Subaru specialist before I buy it but would love to know your opinion as to whether I should pass this car up and look for something else. I like everything else about the car (except for the noise it made driving on the freeway from the wind which you’ve already explained can be fixed by replacing the gusset – thanks!) and it’s taken me a while to find one that I liked but seeing this invoice for repairs raised a red flag for me.

    Thanks for the great site,

    Alex

    1. Hello Alex,

      Its tough to say how you can tell if they did a good job, a inspection by a Subaru Guy locally should help. It may be obvious if it was done in a hurry I would think.

      Installing a used Ac compressor is a cheap way to make it work again, it may not last however as the used part may develop the same issue the last one did. There is nothing the matter with this type of repair, other than the gamble on longevity.

      Justin

  310. 2006 Outback with 108K miles. Many many oil leaks and check engine lights and many visits to the mechanic:

    1. Catalytic converter replaced 8 months ago (after appropriate diagnostics). Costly.

    2. External oil leak. HG replaced (along with timing belt) 2 months ago. Without car for 3 days and costly.

    3. Using 1 quart oil/1000 miles over the last 2 months. No diagnosis yet. Will go to the mechanic (AGAIN)

    Extremely frustrating car!

  311. Just took my 2007 Forrester in for tune up at 58,000. Has leaking head gasket needing machining plus stuck valves. Changed oil every 3,000. Had every tune up. Costing about $3000!!! Just out of warranty. No indicator showed positive (no oil/water leak, heating, coolant, rough driving). Subaru said they “saw” a leak. Still not done 2 weeks later!!! Keep finding one more problem. Won’t give me a line item estimate. Won’t let me have my car for a second opinion. Will never buy a Subaru again. Shifted horribly from day one and they can’t figure that out. I had no idea they had the history I’m reading. Where is the class action suit? I’m in.

    1. A 2007 Forester with 58,000 miles should have some coverage. Have you contacted SOA? You have a 5 year, 60k powertrain warranty!

      Next, if its bad enough that it has to be done now, it was bad enough 3000 miles ago, and why didn’t the Dealer tell you then when it was still covered by time and miles? Thats a Question you need to ask both the Dealer and SOA.

      I would suggest for you to Call Subaru at 1800 Subaru 3, then find a better dealer, and better yet stop giving the Dealer you hard earned money if they are going to repay you with such poor service.

      If you don’t need AWD and a high safety rating, or a AWD Wagon then may be the next Car shouldn’t be a Subaru, Volvo Or an Audi.

      But if you need an AWD Vehicle in Subaru’s Class, the Subaru will cost less than an Audi or Volvo to Own, even if you replaced the HG every 5 years.

      Your experience with any particular model, or device will only be as good as the support. An Auto dealer is a Franchise like A McDonald’s, some you walk into will be dirty, slow and not care, some will be clean, quick and have a staff that’s glad your there.

      Justin

  312. Justin,

    Incredibly helpful information thank you–Canada here.
    I’ve long flipped between Mazda and Subaru, about to buy Subaru again.

    I found out about this issue after I had a failure with a 2002 Legacy wagon, $2600 later….
    I sold the car shortly after and returned to my trouble free Mazda.

    Are 2010 and newer Subaru outside of this?
    Have they finally addressed or are these years simply to new to see any evidence yet?

    I am looking at 2010-2012 either Forester or Impreza (and I am one who follows service schedules)

    Thanks, all very helpful

    Brad

    1. Hi Brad,

      There is no easy answer to that.

      The 2010 to 2012 H4 in the Outback uses a MLS gasket that should hold up better than prior years did. We have had a few 2010’s in with over 120k and so far so good.

      The Forester uses the Same HG from 2003 to mid year 2011, when the engine design was changed. Its not reasonable to comment until there are some miles driven on this design.

      The Impreza has a redesigned engine for 2013.

      Unlike a salesman, I cant and wont say its improved until its proven it is.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  313. Justin,

    Thank you so much for your advice on here. I want to make sure I understand something you said. You seemed to say that the longer you go without a problem, the less likely it will be. Is this right? I am thinking of purchasing a 2005 Forester with 105k miles. I have been told it has not had HG problems. With 105k miles without a problem, are my odds good that there will not be a HG problem?

    Also, does every Subaru have a HG problem eventually, or do some not have the HG problems?

    Thanks again.

    Jon

    1. Not every Subaru has a HG problem, and yes typically speaking if the cars is at 150k, and still dry it may never have an issue.

      Or in other cases it could 1 month later.

      Justin

      1. Hello, I have a 04 Forester XT Auto with 160k and never had a HG problem. I am the 2nd owner. However, I currently had a burnt exhaust valve and the engine is currently out and dismantled. The valve have been replaced and heads machined. My question is, that I had purchased the Felpro HS26259PT-1 kit to replace all gaskets. There is a disclaimer that the old HG needs to be measured first before using the replacement HG from this kit. Unfortunately, the old gaskets were were discarded. How can I figure out if this is the right gasket to use in this situation? Thanks. Alex.

        1. I would never use the gasket you mentioned, your not working on a Chevy, Ford or Dodge, and thats the only place that brand belongs in my opinion. Just uses the OE Subaru Gasket its not going to let you down the first one was still ok at 160k.

          Justin

  314. Wow this article helpful, plus I really liked reading some of the comments left by Subaru awners. Anyway I am going to buy a 2001 Subaru Outback Sedan with 141,000 miles on it. I am slightly discouraged about the head gasket but I think the new design (with the 3 layers) is so much better than the standard one in the car. I took it to be inspected and it for sure has a leaking head gasket and needs a few other fix ups. How soon should I replace it? Should I get the new HG in there right away? What happens if I don’t? I need to replace fluids and stuff too. Oh man I hope it runs great after this because I am going to be broke!

  315. Justin;
    I’ve been reading your site for along time and I find it very helpful. I started smelling antifreeze on my 2005 outback at about 40,000 miles and asked the dealer about it. They said they did not find anything wrong but I could tell they were holding some information back. Now at 50,000 miles I have not noticed any leaks but is it my understanding that the headgaskets are covered under warranty by the factory until 80,000 miles? I once thought I saw you write that the factory will replace them with the same faulty ones that are there now. Your shop uses a revised set of gaskets right? Your shop is where I will be coming if and when the gaskets fail.
    Thanks, Rolf

    1. Justin;
      Forgot to say that I have had no overheating issues and that the oil has been changed every 3,000 miles. The car is in pristine condition and I would like to keep it that way. I’ve been at the dealership before when other people have mentioned the same thing and they always play it down. If the gaskets were to go out before the 103,000 mile servicing for the timing belt would I want the water pump to be replaced at the same time as the gaskets and belt? Even at 60-70.000 miles? It is my understanding that once you are in there you want those items replaced.
      Thank, Rolf

      P.S. The only reason I have not come to you sooner is that the dealer is only 1/2 mile away and has free loaners for life. You are on the other side of the lake and you know what 522 + 520 can be like at rush hour.

      1. Hello Rolf,

        We do use a MLS type gasket that we have had good results with, partiality because of the gasket, and partially because of our repair method.

        The 2005 model uses the latest greatest gasket that Subaru offers, so yes the gasket going in at a Subaru dealer will be the same one coming out.

        If the gaskets were done anytime after 60k, we are going to suggest the timing components, as it will lower forward going ownership costs, as there is no labor. You don’t have to do them, but we will suggest them, as they wont be due for another 105k after we finish.

        Yes the Seattle to East-side traffic is a thing to contend with, I hope when the 520 bridge is done its better for everyone, I would hate to think the money we pay every month in tolls for our shuttle and loaner cars would be for not.

        Thanks for posting and hope that helps

        Justin

  316. Hi,

    Looking to buy a used Subaru, in need of a reliable and inexpensive vehicle for a short commute (6 mile round trip) Found a 1998 Forester 5-Speed with under 100K miles for sale I am planning on looking at. Are there any mechanical warning signs I should look for? The whole head gasket thing has me concerned. Are there any quick tests that can be performed to check for HG problems? I am trying to locate a Subaru specialist in the area to check it for me.

    Thanks,

    Jeff

  317. Hi Justin,
    6 months ago I bought a 99 Forester with 140K. I did my research and knew the head gaskets would have to be done. I saved my money, and just had them done by a wonderful mechanic here in Portland Or. What an amazing car. I love it. I’ve always driven Chevys, but am now a solid Subaru man. Your site has been an amazing resource! Thanks!

  318. Justin,
    Good morning. Love your web site and have learned more about Subaru’s in the past week then I thought could be learned. Here’s my question for you and your experiences with Subaru’s. I had purchased a used 2003 outback sedan, 98000 k miles on it. Ended up the head gaskets were blown on this car. The dealership in Jersey gave me 3 options. Full refund on car, used it as a trade in at full paid price, or have the engine repaired by them at no price. Cost of repair was 2500. If I went that route I would ask and pay for the water pumb/timing replacement. Rest of car was good. I was happy dealership was willing to make good on car even though I did buy it “as is”. I ended up trading in and up to a 2005 impreza 61000 k. Cost me more then I wanted to spend on a used car for my teenagers to use for school, but after used car shopping all summer finding a decent used car of any brand at 7000 budget is not easy. My question, is I initially declined extended warranty, and later the dealership dropped price for 36 month/36k to 1800. I signed for it but can cancel in next 30 days. Personally I dont go for extended warranties on anything,dishwashers through cars. I figure just save money and expect to have to make repairs as all things mechanical will be worn out some point. In your experience, is the 2005 2.5 engine as prone to failure? the transmission how prone are they to failure? Thank you for any imput. Robert

    1. Hi Robert,

      The 2005 has the Same HG as the 2003, its fairly prone but usually oil and over 100k.

      There is no known Transmission issue on the 2005 and Newer Models, either manual or Automatic.

      Justin

      1. Justin,
        Thank you for the answer. Take care and keep up the good work. The web site is awesome. I checked into shipping a car from Seattle to NJ but at a price of approximately 1000 it just did not seem to make sense to pick up a used Subaru from you and then pay a grand to ship it. Take care. I am canceling the extended warranty and have found two independent Subaru shops that do a lot of work on these engines, so if this one goes, I know where to get it repaired. The car is nice and I am hoping to bang 150-175 K out of it.

        Robert

  319. Justin:

    ’03 Legacy with 2.5L. Under 50K mileage. Coolant conditioner was added at 30K. Dealer now indicates HG leakage and need for HG replacement. I thought coolant conditioner would have resolved HG issues. Should I ask Subaru for relief? Should I have an independent shop confirm HG leakage?

    1. Hi Adam,

      So Hg can leak oil, coolant and fail internally Which is yours doing?

      If Coolant Conditioner as added but its leaking oil?

      Here is the thing, if you would like Subaru to pay for or participate in a “potential” hurried and shotty repair made at a Subaru Dealer Service Department than call SOA, 1 800 Subaru 3. If you want to seek out a good Independent Subaru Repair shop that has Techs that take pride in what they do and have an Owner that allows them to do so, well then you should take it to a Independent Shop. Its all about what YOU want.

      For you and anyone else that reads my replies and comments, know that I am still amazed daily by the number of posts that start out with “I took my car to the Subaru Dealer”. I just dont understand why, when there is so much factual information out there about why you dont have to and why its justs cost you more for less.

      I believe that with any type of service provided such as Auto service, Dental, Medical, Veterinarian, enter anything else here. It should be about the Relationship you can foster over time with your visits.

      Now I dont know all of your specifics, I am just generically pointing out my beliefs. Maybe there isn’t a Good Subaru shop where you live and if thats the case its difficult to advise you based on what I know to be the best way to obtain real value for your service dollars.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Thanks Justin. I’ve not seen any leakage personally and the car has not been failing at all. My wife took the car to the dealer for a simple oil change and the dealer advised of the head gasket problem. I’m not aware of an independent Subaru specialist where I live, though I certainly do know of good independent mechanics that can take a closer look. Sounds as though that is your preference and I will do that.

  320. Justin,

    Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it! I have not been able to find anyone here in Austin that I trust yet and we are also currently low on cash, so I was wondering if you thought it would be okay for us to let our car sit for awhile until we can afford to fix it? I’m afraid of doing anymore damage to it if we continue to drive it… or could coolant possibly continue to leak into the engine even while sitting?

    Sorry, I just don’t know anything about cars and I’m afraid of ruining the engine…

  321. Justin,
    I just got a quote for $1400-$1800 for HG and timing belt replacement. I kinda figured it would be expensive, but DAMN! Does this sound right to you?

    Also, he mentioned that just the tb would run $700, and the HG only another $1100. My question is: isn’t most of the labor involved in changing the timing belt already done when you pull the heads? Why would the labor be cumulative when it seems there is obvious overlap?

    Finally, he mentioned that they use a 3 piece hg that they get out of CA, and it sounds like its from a performance company (he mentioned WRX’s). Are you familiar with these? Could you recommend an aftermarket replacement? I found a “Six Star” gasket that claimed it would be the last gasket you would ever need. Sounds too good to be true.

    Thanks!

    1. Hello Rich,

      We do use the 6 star here at the shop.

      There shouldn’t be any cost other than the parts when replacing the timing components at the same time as the HG meaning no labor just parts prices on top of the HG repair.

      Justin

      1. Justin,
        My 2005 Subaru Forrester just developed a leaky head gasket. I noticed very small oil markings on the ground. Otherwise, the car runs great. My local mechanic says the job to fix it is very complicated and he won’t do it. He says by pulling the engine, you run the risk of having other issues down the road (no pun intended)! He says to just let it go and continue to monitor it. My daughter will be using the car for college and her school is about 90 miles from here. He said that the car should not experience a blown head gasket. What’s your thoughts on just “letting it go”? Will it get progressively worse? Thanks! Your comments are appreciated.

        1. Hi Stan,

          This is the Type of Situation that only comes up when you have a “mechanic” who services every make and model, and probably means well but just isn’t familiar with Subaru or any one model to be an expert. Thats what you need, a Subaru Expert! At our shop we service other makes typically the customer who has a Subaru likes what we do for them and asks if we can service the Toyota in family as well. We do this but always with the understanding that we will need to defer to a Specialist at times as we wont pretend to have the right answers or advise when something we are unfamiliar with arises. I started my Career as a generalist working on anything that came in the door and I was very good, but I can also look back on that period in my career and honestly tell you I did not serve all customers as well as they could have been, not because of fraudulence, only because of the savvy that comes with specializing and is missing in all trades as a generalist.

          It will get worse, it will go from oil, to coolant and finally internal. The costs can be controlled when caught early. Because I cant see the leaks from here, I cant comment on where you are at in this process as when it first starts to leak coolant it will be tricky to spot as you need to look for grey at the Head gasket to block area not green coolant. We often monitor HG leaks for our customers and advise when its finally time. This almost always before the car goes away for school or on a long road trip even if its only oil leaks at that time as the what ifs come into play.

          Hope that helps

          Justin

  322. I have a 2000 Subaru Outback with 157,000 miles on it that I bought used around 7 years ago. Probably about a year or two after I got it the check engine light came on and has been on ever sense. I don’t know anything about cars and I move around a lot so I have a hard time knowing whether I can trust mechanics or not, but usually do whatever they suggest. The code is a P0420 and yes I did let them replace my catalytic converter and then yes the light came back on. I can’t remember how long it took, but I had already moved again so I never followed up with that mechanic. Other people have tried to replace it multiple times, but when I tell them that didn’t work they have other ideas (which I sadly can’t remember anymore) that I pay them to try and the light always turns back on. I kind of gave up and assumed that the problem was with the check engine light since my car always drove fine. I actually didn’t realize what the job of the converter was and now I’m starting to feel really guilty if I’ve been driving around with a bad one for years.

    Now, I live in Texas and have to pass an inspection and am just realizing for the first time that there actually is something wrong with my car. I went to get an oil change and an inspection at a small shop and finally got good advice for the first time. He said, “If this is a problem with your car that you haven’t been able to figure out then chances are other people are having the same problem too and you should do a little research.” So, here I am. I am also getting a P0133 code now and he said when he was changing the oil he saw a really small leak that looked like it was coming from the front cam seal.

    My question is what I should do now? I’m in grad school, don’t really have much money, but this is a car that I planned on keeping forever. So, do I just go into a shop with good reviews and say I need new head gaskets, or is there tests I should ask them to run first? I’m in Austin and I haven’t found anywhere that specialized in Subaru’s besides the dealership (which I know isn’t recommended.) I was thinking about printing off all the info I can find to bring in with me when I take my car because for some reason no where I have ever taken my car before has known about this problem. Sorry this is so long, I’m just looking for any advice you have for me, and want to make sure I’m doing the right thing.

    Thanks so much,

    Alison

    1. Hi Alison,

      Based on what you have said, I don’t think the car has ever actually had a a diagnoses, most likely when the Converter was replaced it was replaced with a aftermarket and poor quality or was never in need of replacement from the start. But having said that if the light comes on for a Converter issue, the diagnoses is performed the converter replaced and later the light comes back on for something else, the shop and components would not be at fault. If the light is back on and the same code is set then the converter may fall into my first statement. I am not sure if you have a 133 and 420 set?

      I understand the not having much money, but fixing the car right once and for all is going to cost money I am afraid.

      You need to seek out a good shop that knows Subaru and let them guide you through what needs to be done, this may include the proper O.E. Subaru Converter and 02 sensors, as well as a HG repair. That is the best advice I have as anything else will yield similar results to what you have already experienced.

      Justin

  323. Justin,
    I just bought a 2001 Forester with only 45K on the odometer. I thought I had found a great deal but your comments regarding low milage vehicles have me scared. I plan to drop in new spark plugs (OE), change the coolant, install new battery cables, and go over the engine with a fine tooth comb today. From there I will over-maintain the vehicle (I like working on my cars in the garage anyhow and these are things I can do myself).

    I guess I will hope that the thing blows while still under the 3 month/3000 mile power-train warrentee …but what are the chances? Probably will go at mile 3001 or day 92 😉

    2 specific questions:
    1. What do I use to perform a pH test on the coolant? What is proper pH?
    2. Is there anything else I can do?

    Thanks!
    Dan

      1. Justin,
        Thanks for the link to the strips. I will pick those up asap.

        Reactive? I thought I was being proactive since nothing bad has happened yet and I just bought this car 6 days ago. Maybe I was not clear so Ill re-state my question.

        Since I just learned about these head gasket problems in the 2001 Subaru that I just bought… is there anything that I can do proactively besides regularly inspecting the head for leaks, coolant pH checks, regular coolant changes, regular oil changes, and staying on top of the spark plugs and battery issues that you mention? I just want to do whatever I can to prevent future problems.

        Thank you for your time and feedback.

        1. “be proactive, not reactive like you are doing now and you will have less money out on repairs and obtain more life out of the car.”

          Was meant to read that you are being Proactive. Was in a hurry as usual, I should have reread it before posting, sorry.

          Good maintenance is all that you can do, and if you follow good maintenance you will get more miles out of the car as a result.

          By monitoring the Ph level, maintaining the oil, coolant, battery, filters etc you should be ok. At some point you may need to do the Hg regardless but hopefully you will be in the 150 to 200k area by being diligent at taking care of the Subaru.

          Justin

          1. Thanks Justin – I really do appreciate your time.

            The more I read the more it looks like the H6 engine that went into the Outback is a great engine after 2004. A timing chain, very low head gasket blowout problems, etc,,,

            Is it really that much better and engine?

            This would be great info to have since we plan to look for an Outback in about a year (once our Prius lease is up). Im told that the H6 has even been used for aircraft?

          2. Both the H6 and H4 can be found in aircraft applications.

            Not sure why you have been lead to believe only after 2004 is the H6 is a good option?

            The H6 has its strengths and weaknesses. It most likely wont develop HG issues, and if it does it will be typically at higher miles, but if it does its twice as expensive and there are other unique to the H6 items that will wear out over time and cost money.

            Justin

  324. What a great thread! (and site!)

    Our 04 ForesterX has been very reliable and a nice little car since day one. All the maintenance, outside of oil changes (which I like to do) 2x per year in Spring and Fall w/ OEM filters has been done by the dealer. (Subaru bucks make dealer service a better deal for us)

    It will be 9 years old this October and has about 65K on odo.

    Recently, I noticed some oil in the driveway, not much, but a few drops here and there and I’m worried it might be a HG. The oil level hasn’t gone down more than normal.

    I looked for a source, but I just don’t know what to look for. How can I tell, before taking it in, if it is a HG leaking, or valve gasket? Where would the telltale signs of each leak be that I could look for?

    I like to try knowing what the problem is before bringing it in so I can speak to them from a position of knowledge and not just take their word for things if possible. I know I have a leaky axle too now!

    Also, I’m closing in on 105 months. Even though the car has only 65K, would it still be a good idea to do the timing belt service?

  325. hi justin stobb.. i have an external oil leak on my Subaru Impreza 2004 2.5 rs. and my mechanic told me that i will spend at least 1700. and as i’ve read some of the comments here. i am just wondering can i still try to change my coolant and apply the conditioner that Subaru has recommended ..before jumping to a conclusion to change my gasket? is it still gonna work that way? or At least help to stop the oil leak? pls help just your opinion will give me more knowledge… my car has 167000 kilometers. thank you I’ll be waiting

      1. can i still drive my car while having a head gasket problem? because i dont have the cash right now to fix it.. it will be after january 2013 that i’ll have a payout… is that too long for the car to be in that shape? does it will cause me more problems by driving it while leaking oil?

  326. Justin,
    I am looking at purchasing an outback h6 3.0 do they have any problems with the headgaskets like the 4 cyl.’s do?
    Thanks,
    Vince

    1. Hi Vince,

      The 6 cylinder models don’t experience the same kind of Head gasket failures the 4 cylinder N/A models do. That doesn’t mean they don’t ever fail, just not at the same rate as the 4 cylinders do.

      Justin

  327. Hi Justin, I just purchased a 2004 Subaru legacy with 100,000 miles, for my sons first car. The day after I purchased it I took it to a super lube to do an oil change or to check if it needed one, when they told me that the cv boot needed to be fixed and there was an oil leak, but they did not know where it was coming from. I immediately took it to a mechanic to have them look at it, but it wont be until tomorrow. Any suggestions on what to expect. I do not want to get ripped off. Thank you

    1. Hi Debbie,

      The first thing I really want to suggest to you is that you establish a relationship with a good shop capable of servicing your Subaru & avoid Quick-lube centers at all costs.

      Not knowing where your leak is coming from makes it hard to speculate on costs, and even then there is no standard price.

      Justin

  328. Justin, thank you for the ‘in detail’ explaining the cause of the headgasket failure. I already ordered an received one set. I own a 03 Baja with 150K. My plan is to rebuild the engine completly once the gasket fails. I have an issue with the idle in the meantime. Recently with the engine in D and car stopped, the idle is going down causing the engine to shake. No engine codes, new wires and spark plugs. Clean K&N filter. Cleaned up the IAC valve but no clue how to test it. The other two vacum valves on the right side on the engine are clean and seem to work. PCV valve also working.Any ideea what the cause might be?BTW what is with the suspension pop, another Subaru mistery?
    Thank you for keeping this thread alive for so long.

    1. Does the Baja have aftermarket or “Subaru reman” front CV axles? From there the throttle position sensor voltage range and base settings should be tested.

      Justin

      1. It has the “direct replacement”, store bought axles(front), not Subaru. I’ve checked the TP sensor and its between 0.45 and 0.55 volt. Its 0.47.

          1. Thanks a lot!
            It all makes sense now, the vibration started after the “new” CV axels where installed.Just like the cheap head gasket, is only going to create more problems.

  329. I have a 2001 Subaru Forester with just over 100,000 miles. My mechanic told me our head gaskets need to be replaced and has given me a quote of $2200. Is that reasonable or should I look elsewhere?

    Also, should I contact SOA to try to recoup some of that expense, since it happened just as we turned the corner to 100,000 miles?

    Thanks for a great blog.

    1. You can always try SOA, but only if its repaired at the Dealership. Which is probably not the best way to go.

      As far as price, you will always find a better one, but shopping for HG is not the same as shopping for a TV. A Quality of a HG repair will greatly vary from shop to shop, its always better to have a relationship established with a shop that is familiar with the type of vehicle you drive, then when a problem arises there is no question on who will repair it. Kind of like not getting the phone book out when your sick.

      Justin

  330. hi justin i am going to buy a subaru legacy rsk b4 with a 4 cylinder 2000cc tiptronic 4wd engine and the owner said that it has a generic boxer engine gasket leak, will this be a big problem if i buy the car ?

  331. My 2008 Subaru Legacy has 56,018 miles and the air conditioning went out so it was repaired but wasn’t working properly. I returned to the shop and was told my head gaskets were “fried”, what else can go wrong?

  332. Hello Justin, Thanks for all the information and your time answering everyone’s questions.

    I recently bought a 2003 Forester with 133k.
    It was a 1 owner car with the timing and all other belts changed @ 96k.

    When I go to change to oil and coolant, what type of oil would you recommend?

    When I go to change the coolant, I assume I should use the Subaru coolant, should I also use the conditioner?

    I assume, I can just buy the coolant from the dealer and do it myself, Is there anything I should know about changing the coolant?

    Thanks in advance and Thanks for your time

    1. Hi Steve,

      I would use the OE Subaru coolant(Green).

      I don’t like the conditioner.

      You have to buy a coolant fill funnel to purge the air out the cooling system.

      Justin

  333. Ok so i’ve discovered that i can see the gasket protruding above the top of the head/block & in the corners of the gasket there are small metal eyelets. Not sure if this means anything but from all the pictures of the standard gasket i’ve seen it looks different from them! Do you think this gasket might be the after market of updated gasket?

  334. Hi, I have a 98 Subaru Legacy with 121k miles. It has the phase 1 ej25 engine. I check the oil and coolant frequently. As of late, I discovered small bubbles inside the coolant overflow tank, with the engine running and after I shut it off. I have a video here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P4dcl-hApU

    Do I have a head gasket leak? Right now my car runs perfect and does not overheat. I would like to know so I could have the work done before it starts overheating.

    Chris

  335. My 2004 Forester has appx 158K miles on it and has every scheduled maintenance done by a Subaru dealer. About 6 months ago I noticed that it was using a lot more oil than normal so we are doing the oil consumption tests. The latest test on the first 1000 miles after an oil change it used 2 qts of oil (synthetic blend)and they recommended changing the pcv valve which has to be ordered as they didn’t have one in stock. There is no oil leak anywhere, no smoke and gas mileage appears to be about normal over 309 miles to the tank before the low fuel light comes on. I love my Forester and am hoping to get another 100K+ miles from it as it’s been a GREAT vehicle. After reading various comments in this blog I’m wondering if using straight synthetic oil will help. Also, if they say replacing the HGs is what needs to be done then my thoughts are why not as that would only be a few months worth of car payments vs a car loan. So my concern would be if the HGs are replaced and depending upon what they look like do you think that would solve the problem or is there potential for other issues? As I say, I don’t mind spending $2-3K if I can get 100k-150k additional miles from this vehicle if I can. I drive appx 58 miles (appx 48 are interstate miles)round trip to work and back with more local (stop & go) on the weekends so I know my baby gets a decent workout and runs very well with the exception of using a lot more oil right now. Your suggestions would be most appreciated!

    1. The Subaru dealer doesn’t stock a PCV Valve?

      Should be replaced by the 60k interval and actually we do it every 30k on that era Subaru.

      Reason # 1 to go else where for service, they dont actually know cars at that dealer if they dont inspect, replace and stock a PCV valve. They came out in most engines by 1969 and are ignored by the current era parts changers.

      Oil consumption caused by worn oil control rings will not be solved with any HG replacement, there are no real tests for oil consumption other than engine tear down and component inspection.

      I just cant ever say this enough, if you go to a Subaru Dealership you are paying to maintain the car based on their profit model, not whats best for your Car. Unless the PCV is stuck open I am afraid you are looking at worn oil control rings most likely brought on by oil changes done at intervals to excessive for how you use the car.

      Justin

  336. Hi i am currently in the process of buying a 1998 liberty sedan with the 2.5 ltr engine, it has had the timing belt replaced in the last 10,000 km (6000 miles) & has done 213,000km (130,000 miles)approx. There is no service history with the car other than about the timing belt, so what are the chances that the head gaskets have been replaced?

    1. Rob,

      That is real tough to say. Typically the 1st gen 2.5l would begin to fail at an average of 120k. I have observed as early as 60,000 miles and as late as still not having been replaced at 250k.

      For me its easy to spot form the outside if it has the updated gasket, it will have a crimp in stead of a rivet holding the MLS gasket together.

      I don’t know if you will be able to spot that.

      Justin

      1. Ok so it is visible from the outside though if i know where to look is that correct? If so where do i look ?

        cheers & thnx

        1. I am not sure how to tech you what to look for without meeting in person with the car in front of us, but yes if you knew what to look for you could spot if they have been done.

          Justin

  337. Hi there, I have a 2000 Subaru forester that I love, but unfortunately I took it on vacation from WI to Niagara falls ON for my wedding, well it over heated and by my surprise the head gasket blew. I have taken apart the engine replaced all the gaskets, and bolts, I put the engine back together, timing belt good and I go to start my car, it is turning over slow, it almost turned over once but didn’t. It’s just turning too slow for it to turn over. Any information you can give me would be amazing ( I kind of need to go back home lol) by the way you have an amazing site going here very dedicated.

  338. would you happen to have the subaru part number handy for the updated head gasket for the 1997 2.5 dohc. Thanks

  339. Great topic, great info! I’ve got some symptoms with my 2005 2.5i Outback that have me confused. Based on postings in forums like these the best I can come up with is a potential head gasket problem (not shocking at 107,000+ miles). Can you help set me straight? If it’s head gaskets a pro will certainly do the repair, but we’d like to diagnose and fix it ourselves if it is something less daunting since my wallet is just about empty.

    Symptoms- Last summer/fall car had a sweet smell with no obvious coolant leak for a month or two. In January I found coolant on front of engine one day, but haven’t seen a drip since. However, the coolant is very slowly disappearing and we cannot find any signs of a coolant leak and no coolant smell. More troubling is the loss of oil with no drips, smoke, or carbon on tailpipes at a rapid rate (1 qt every 1500 miles or so). There is no dark residue or smell in the coolant reservoir. The car is driven on short trips during the week and 450 miles round trip on the weekends between MD and NJ. I first thought Jiffy Lube screwed up since no oil was on the dipstick a month after I had it changed (also in January), but am seeing a regular loss now.

    The car has been normally maintained. The only issue noted when I had the timing belt done at 102K, wasa recommendation to replace my valve cover gaskets. No drips yet, but some seeping is just becoming visible. I read draining the coolant to look for oil in it is one diagnostic for a head gasket leak. Not sure what else to look for to help or rule out a head gasket problem, or where the heck that much oil is going!

    Aside from some rear wheel-bearing issues that were covered by Subaru, this has been pleasingly trouble-free vehicle since purchased new. Thanks for the level headed responses and helpful comments, far too many people I know hurt themselves in the long run by buying new as soon as their car starts needing repairs. As it ages I anticipate the usual older-car issues, but I’m shooting for 200,000K next. 🙂

    1. Hello Lisa,

      Draining the coolant and looking for oil isn’t really a good idea, if there is actual oil in the coolant from an internal leak, there would be oil floating on top of the coolant in the overflow bottle most likely.

      The loss of oil is most likely worn oil control rings, you can read this here https://allwheeldriveauto.com/why-does-my-subaru-use-oil/

      As far as looking into the rest of it, you really need an exhaust gas analyzer to look for a combustion to coolant, or coolant to combustion type leak, if you are unable to spot a small external leak for mt the left side Head Gasket.

      You will need to remove the splash pan to have a good look of course.

      Its difficult how best to advise you, its very uncommon to have worn rings at 107k, but since it was starved for oil that was most likely the cause and a big reason never to use that company ever.

      So you may in fact be looking and some fairly significant repairs due to the internal parts of the engine starving for lubrication at one point in time which is very unfortunate.

      If you end up making the HG repairs it would be a good idea to consider a lower end reseal as well based on what you have said, as it may use more oil after the HG repairs are made.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Thanks for the quick reply. I’ll read the info at the link you posted. I plan to have the car looked at by a professional at this point. Here’s hoping things aren’t as dire, but we will see. Cheers.

  340. I am the original owner of a 2001 Subaru Outback wagon. Aside from replacement/repair of expected items (water pump, valve cover gaskets, axles, tire rods, struts, tires, belts and hoses, A/C compressor at 10 years), I have had to deal with these issues:

    At 4 years age, chronic under the hood fuel leaks from rubber hoses feeding injector lines. Dealer failed to properly remedy. Owner fixed with new fuel hose when tightening clamps did not suffice.

    Warping front brake rotors beginning at ~30K mi. Both original and Subaru genuine replacements. Second replacement with aftermarket EBC rotors still in great shape at 150K mi.

    Catalytic converter begins to fail at 82K mi.

    Left head gasket replaced under warranty at 98K mi.

    Catalytic converter replaced at 116K mi. Victim of silicon contamination from left head gasket?

    Right head gasket replaced at 135K mi at owner’s cost. Dealer could have advised replacement when engine was torn down for left head gasket repair at 98K. Would have saved $$$

    Automatic transmission failing at 151K mi. (front pinion bearing)

    1. Hi Sandy,

      The fuel lines should have been replaced under warranty. Its unfortunate the Dealer couldn’t take care of that for you properly.

      Sounds like maybe the vehicle is used in a way that the factory vented rotors were not enough to disparate the heat, and a slotted or drilled rotor was needed to match your driving style, it was good that you were able to figure that out. This would be common if you came down a hill to a stop often.

      You are right on about the right side head gasket thing, but that’s a very common situation when the car is serviced at the Subaru Dealership, it would have been better to have a good independent shop be involved with the car, you would of had better service. An example of this is if the car had come here we would have let you know to push for both sides to be done. When a Dealership is the only one to service the car you are really at the mercy of what they want to do. For any one else reading, this is another example of why the engine should come out and both sides done to ensure a complete long lasting repair that will keep forward going ownership costs down.

      The pinion bearing failure in the front differential is not that common, and should have been repaired rather than a transmission replacement. I can only assume the front differential fluid was changed every 30,000 miles, or again if it was serviced at the same dealership the Technician may have been lazy, the dealer only changed it every 60k or it may be a heat situation similar to the front rotors.

      I think based on what you have presented, you have had more trouble with the Level of Service from Who Subaru of America has chosen to represent them as a franchise. Just like a Fast food Franchise the experience can be quite different from one to the next. It may be worth your time to call SOA and at least let them know how you fell about the level of service you have experienced.

      Thanks for posting your experience!

      Justin

      1. First, thanks for the information you provide on this website and thanks for maintaining the forum for so long.

        Yes, my dealer, Herb Gordon Subaru of Silver Spring, MD, could be a little bit more supportive of customers to say the least (I am restraining myself here).

        I do live at the bottom of a hill. Not big but maybe enough to heat the rotors too much just before ending my drive.

        Not much more to say about the second head gasket. Too bad I was not so well versed on the issue when the first replacement was needed.

        I confirmed from my receipts that the dealer performed 30K services with the notation “Service Automatic Trans. Minor 90/04”. I did speak with the lead dealership mechanic regarding possible repair of the pinion bearing. He responded that he could do it but would be uncomfortable guaranteeing the transmission in fear that something else may be worn. Both dealership (Herb Gordon Subaru in Silver Spring, MD) and local shop recommended replacing the transmission either rebuilt or used. I located a used unit ($900 delivered) with 106K from a reliable supplier. They assure me that the units are inspected for evidence of wear (metal in the fluid) when they drain them for storage. My shop will fill and power flush, then replace axle seals and rear main seal before installing.

        Hopefully, this ends my streak of out of norm repairs. If/when I purchase another Outback, I will consider another dealership. Easy to do in the DC/Baltimore area.

        Regards,

        Sandy

        1. So yes, the brakes will warp more frequently if you come down a hill and then stop the car. The front rotors are vented to allow air flow when moving to cool them evenly when a car comes to a stop with a hot set of front rotors they will almost always warp.

          Using a rotor that’s drilled, slotted or both will alleviate this.

          Still lost on the inability to replace the front pinion. But the many dealerships do employ less skilled techs typically so it is understandable that they are more comfortable just installing a transmission. Fingers crossed the used transmission works out.

          Justin

          1. Hi Justin,

            Given the premature failure of my transmission, I’m not sure I can trust its other parts either. I will have 50K less miles on transmission if all works well. I’ll post again once replacement done.

            For those curious, below is an excerpt from my correspondence with SOA. I am not bothering further with my dealership as there actions make clear they are not my advocate in dealing with SOA.

            On 6/26/2012 3:04 PM, Subaru of America, Inc. wrote:
            >
            > Dear Mr. Kramer,
            >
            > Thank you for your most recent email to Subaru of America, Inc. as it relates to your 2001 Subaru and the concerns you expressed regarding the head gasket concern you recently experienced.
            >
            > While I appreciate you providing some information that relates to this matter, we are only able to rely upon information received from an authorized Subaru dealership and not information that can be found on-line. Additionally, Subaru of America, Inc. does not have the capability of providing a technical representative to discuss this or any type of technical concern directly with our consumers. While I am sorry that I cannot respond positively to your request, you are free to discuss your current concern directly with an authorized Subaru dealership.
            >
            > Once again, thank you for your email and I am sorry that I do not have a more positive response to provide to you.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Jody Cullen

          2. Hi Sandy,

            That is the classic “use the Franchise” cop out.

            Its kind of like being told no at the airline ticket counter and being told no until you ask the right person nicely. The reps that work for SOA have more power than they let on, and the dealers have the ability to claim a certain amount of “good will”.

            Sorry you have been at the losing end of the experience, but I assure you its not a Subaru thing there is a business model in place for every car maker.

            Justin

  341. Hi, I was reading one of your other articles and now I am unable to find it. I have a 1997 subaru legacy 2.5 . I have alot of exhaust gases in the cooling syste. Obviously the head gaskets are blown. In that post you recommened using the subaru oem gasket. Can you comment on the six star gasket.It seems like your shop has done many. Which would you recommend and is the six star the same thickness.Any help would be appreciated.. thanks Mike

  342. Hi, I have a 1997 subaru legacy that just came into my shop. alot of compression in the cooling system. Obviviously the head gaskets are gone. Can you comment on the posts I have read about these six star head gaskets, and do you still recommend the subaru oem gaskets at this point in time. Any help would be appreciated.
    Seeems like a pretty straightfoward repaire. thank you. I have done alot of head gaskets nevr done a subaru though

    1. HI Mike,

      Either the Six Star or the Updated Head Gasket from Subaru Will work for you. We use the Updated HG from Subaru as I have been using it since 2000 with never a second failure, its not that I don’t have confidence in the 6 star for that application its just hard to move away from something you have had such great success with.

      Justin

  343. Justin, though I appreciate your site and explanations, you have way too many excuses for the Subaru HG problem which directly relates to a poorly designed engine. Who pays for Subaru’s lousy engine design, their devoted customers (though devoted no more after discovering how pervasive the HG problem is.)

    I have a 2001 Forester with 86,000 miles which has been serviced every 3,500 miles at the dealer for the life of the car. I am the original owner so I know. I have just been told by Subaru mechanics that the heads are starting to leak, that I need to replace them and it will cost $2,500!

    I was an avid Subaru owner until I discovered this HG problem which they have know about for many years. A huge disappointment which I find shameful and despicable!

    In one of your responses you state that once the HG’s are repaired then one can expect to be paying .03 cents per mile compared with buying a new car at .31 cents per mile, however, you fail to take into consideration all of the other mechanical failures that occur to older vehicles.

    A little less “rah, rah Subaru” and more “straight talk” would be appreciated.

    1. Hello Victor

      Really, you ended your post with the following “A little less “rah, rah Subaru” and more “straight talk” would be appreciated.”

      I take that personally!

      What I try to do is help Subaru owners remove some of the emotions during their decision making process by pointing out these little things called facts, perhaps you have heard of them?

      Here is some straight talk for ya!

      You mention that you changed your oil every 3500 miles on a car you drive 7800 miles a year, meaning the oil is changed twice a year on a car that is used in a very severe manner, such as short infrequent trips affecting the warm up cycle of the engine and thus affecting the fluids, and finally the gaskets. So in the last eleven years how many times did you change the coolant, twice? Why not follow the time suggestions for maintenance?

      You do of course realize that another Subaru Owner driving the vehicle 15,000 miles a year could have 165,000 on it before needing the Hg repair and have a different take on a 11 year old vehicle needing a $1500.00 dollar repair. You don’t have a blown head gasket, you have a external fluid leak from the engine, and the last time I checked that happens to other cars as well.

      Since you have a vehicle originally covered by the WWP-99 Campaign, you should put a call into SOA, they may participate 1-800 Subaru 3. In case you don’t have your owners manual.

      I can only assume that since you prefer the Dealer for service that they have performed the WWP-99 campaign and added coolant conditioner as specified by Subaru?

      I don’t secretly go Rah Rah Subaru while typing replies to Subaru Owners questions or posts. I will however point out some things for you. You stated you were an Avid subaru Owner, up until you found out, “Oh my Gosh I have to spend money on it “ from that point on its the worse car since the Pinto. Tell me that isn’t your emotions getting the better of you, rather than thinking it through to conclusion and realizing it will cost less money to keep what you already have Vs buying another car.

      I do not discount that an older car will need more things, quite the opposite, I know the car and can stand confident telling you its a good vehicle worth putting the money into. If you read enough of my replies, I constantly state you need to budget $1500.00 a year for car ownership once the car is 5 years old or has about 60,000 miles on it. When I point out .03 Vs .31 its about the event, as I am sure you must understand even a new car has costs like oil changes, then a 15k service, than the 30k, then brakes, than tires just like the 2001 does. What mechanical failures do you perceive the Forester will need over the next 11 years above the Hg, I can actually lay out a roadmap of what it will need.

      Some years it will be brakes and tires, the next a 90k service and a wheel bearing and maybe a cv boot repair, the overhead clock will stop working if it hasn’t by now, the window gussets will start letting air in causing a whistle, the starter contacts will eventually wear out, it will need its second battery pretty soon, eventually all of the bulbs will have been replaced including the dash lights, you will have the front air fuel sensor done, and possibly the catalytic convertor , the air bag light is going to come on and you will need a clock spring, the knock sensor will fail at some time, but as long as you take better care of it, you won’t buy a transmission, or differential and can put 300,000 miles on the chassis without question. Even if we calculated out the worse case scenario, by adding up all of the possibilities it will still come in around .08 cents a mile VS .31 a mile. This also is an aggregate as it won’t need everything all at once. You can get out your calculator and try to make it come out the other way, but it never will that’s the beauty of facts. Again I point this out to try and help take some of the emotion out of it. Buying a car because the one you have needs a repair is NONSENSE and that line of thinking is what has gotten our country in such a mess, borrow, borrow, borrow because I want. Borrow because I don’t want to put money into an older car, because it makes so much more sense to buy a new one and have it depreciate 10 to 20% the first right hand turn out of the Dealership when the ink is still wet on the contract. Do you really think you will put $30,000 into your 11 year old forester over the next 11 years? Your right you won’t have to put as much money into a new car, but thats because you are paying not to.

      If you have a car that no longer suits your needs, such as you are expecting a third child, or its a manual and your left knee is acting up, thats when you should move on, or if there is some sort of a compelling reason to buy something else such as an all electric vehicle and you want to reduce your carbon footprint regardless of what it costs. If you want a new car by all means go buy one, I am sure you deserve it, but don’t do it because it costs less or makes sound financial sense. Dont become a fan of Brand X and then find out 11 years later it has its flaws as well.

      I am not here making excuses for a poor design, I am trying to help you understand what you own, point out ways to prolong the life of the head gaskets, and if faced with the repair help you make a good decision based on facts. For the record Subaru hates me!

      I on a daily basis see the financial devastation that occurs when a Driver is in Debt, and cannot afford a repair. A $500.00 dollar a month car payment, and missed an oil change and now they need an engine, all because we don’t teach how to own a car anymore. People that actually get to retire at some point don’t allow themselves to be saddled with debt over the course of the rat race. Thats a fact, even if its unpopular. You can’t wake up in the morning without it costing you money the more of it you spend, the less you save, the less you save, the less you have. Part of what I try to do is point out sound financial points to vehicle ownership.

      The boxer engine has its flaws and its positive attributes, its what makes the entire platform possible. You should judge the car on the whole rather than pick out just its flaws but thats just my opinion.

      For every Subaru Owner that is mad as Hell at the Hg repair thing, there is another one that was glad they were in a Subaru when they were in a head on accident and their family is safe, or the parent of a teenaged driver sleeping at night because they know they put their child in a safe reliable car, or a Subaru driver caught in inclimate weather and thankful they chose the Subaru for just this occasion.

      Have you ever seen the Subaru Commercials? The ones that promote the safety aspects and the AWD. I have, and I still haven’t seen the ones where Subaru states “you’ll never put money into your safety”. You can’t have it all! I understand it’s your right to bitch, but I work in the industry, I know there is not a car exempt from repairs, there is no money in it, every vehicle dealership has a very large service center, that’s actually where the money is made.

      If you don’t need the AWD system, the boxer platform with the low and stable center of gravity which allows for the top safety ratings, than you don’t need the Subaru. A non AWD vehicle will have less drivetrain wear than an AWD vehicle, there are really just 2 other choices in Subaru’s class, thats the Audi and the Volvo.

      The latter two will have higher ownership costs over a 11 year period not to mention a higher entry price.

      Subaru and now Toyota Have stuck with the Boxer design, knowing it allows for the “total platform” and an inline or V engine would result in a less stable and safe vehicle.

      I own many Subaru Vehicles, and one GMC Sierra with the Duramax Diesel and when I had to replace the HG on my Sierra (a common issue for the Duramax), I didn’t get mad, I instead reflected about how little trouble I have had with this truck Vs the same era Dodge and Ford in its class that many of my friends own. But I dont live in a fantasy land where an 11 year old car not taken care of as it should doesn’t need some work, where 30 cents a mile is less money than 8 cents a mile, where there is a car that has more options and functions over others but would somehow still need less service.. I would suggest that maybe you could head over to the Audi and Volvo forums and research the issues drivers have had with the 2001 Audi, or the Volvo XC70. I still think all three have their pros and cons, but would still choose the lesser of three evils.

      Hope thats not to Rah Rah go team for ya.

      Cheers

      Justin

      Helping you get more out of your Subaru

  344. Hi Justin,

    My head gaskets are leaking oil and I’m torn between two mechanics. One says he’ll replace the head gaskets, replace the radiator and clutch plus take care of the 100K maintenance for $1700. I’ve used him many times, but is this too good to be true? I know his overhead is low because it’s just him and his shop is at home. The other mechanic will replace the head gaskets for $1550, say they use only Subaru parts, and that they “resurface or machine” the heads. Not sure who to go with at this point. How important is it that subaru parts are used?

    1. Hello Stephanie,

      Without knowing the repair method either will be using makes it difficult to answer, but based on what you have mentioned. I think option one sounds like more bang for you buck. Maybe inquire with shop A as to what they will using for parts, and try to make sure nothing from China is going on your Car and that if you have the need to have the heads machined they will make sure that happens.

      Justin

  345. We just took our 2006 Impreza with 42000 miles on it. The dealer said the head gasket was leaking and gave us an estimate o 2300.00. When we asked if this was a known problem, they said no. My car is exactly 1 year out of warranty, and has had all the recommended maintenance done by the same dealer that sold us the car. Very unhappy right now.

    1. Curious to know how many oil changes a year it has had since the mileage and age are at a disconnect, same thing with coolant changes. I imagine its only had the coolant changed at the one 30k service? When in reality the coolant should have been changed 3 times on a 6 to 7 year old car.

      If its had good service records at a Subaru dealer, I would call SOA.

      Also I would ask the Subaru dealer why they didn’t tell you a while ago about the issue, because if a leak is so bad today it needs to be done, it would have been present at least for the last few visit as a minor leak.

      So you have a call to the Service manager, and to SOA in your immediate future.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  346. Hi Justin,

    I have a 2004 subaru outback sport with 130K miles. I took it to the dealer the other day for some maintenance and they told me the head gaskets were leaking and needed to be replaced. I originally went in because the axle boot clamps were loose and starting to leak grease.. When I went I asked if the mechanic could show me the problems (I basically wanted to make sure they weren’t trying to pull one over on me). Turns out the axle boots are starting to dry out a bit, so they suggested I replace the boot and the clamp, and then showed me that the head gaskets were leaking and needed to be replaced. What I’m trying to decide now is if it is worth it to make the repairs and if I did how long would it possibly extend the life of the car?

    Thanks for your help!

    1. Hello Julie,

      Really if the repairs are done correctly it should last at least the same number of miles you have put on it already.

      The 2004 OBS is a good vehicle, I would certainly put it on the worth repairing and driving for several more years list.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  347. Put me on record as having a 60,000 mile 2004 Forrester with a bad head gasket and, with Subaru having long known about the problem, I am not happy.

    1. For years, though, we would smell anti-freeze when first turning on the car’s air conditioner. Never did anything about it, and not the dealer tells me the smell was likely due to head gasket failure, when it first started to go bad – probably around 20,000 miles. Argh!

  348. Hi Justin, I appreciate your insight very much regarding this head gasket matter, but there’s one remaining question puzzled me:

    It is supposed the gasket *black* materials got eaten away by corrosive coolant (such as in your picture, where the bottom coolant passage eats away the black materials), but from what I’ve read, this black material is actually teflon/silicon based stuff, based on my limited chemistry knowledge, is extremely durable even in high temp and very resistant to corrosive chemicals. Why would some slightly acid coolant eats away it?!

    1. Neither of those chemicals are resistant to corrosion from the cooling system, or excess fuel from the engine oiling system especially when bonded with other agents, and subjected to temperature cycles over time.

      Justin

      1. From the picture, ain’t those two passages that were shot supposedly to be coolant ones? It seems that oil passages weren’t shot.

        If Oil contaminated with gasoline were so corrosive, the first black parts being eaten were supposed to be the ones around oil passage, not coolant passages.

        I had dipped teflon inside of sulfric acid and it was intact despite being sitting their for entire year. The only agent I know to eat away teflon is fluoride acid.

        1. The lower passages are passive oil passages. The area eaten away between the oil passages and cylinder liners is from coolant, the area in the rear and the bottom from oil and coolant. The gaskets have failed around both fluid passages.

          Coolant flows around the cylinder liner to cool it. This is also where the temperature is the most extreme.

          Your missing that chemical reactions change when heated and cooled & subject to extremes at either range. At what temperature does the Teflon fail? Is the Teflon you sampled the same type of Teflon used in the Head gasket? Which is why I always point out its a combination of factors. You cant compare a chemical sitting static in a pan to a car. Have you ever witnessed the Teflon coating in a pan fail due to heat over time, or observe something stick to a non stick Teflon surface as the pan ages? Before you tell me Teflon is good to the overall cooling system temperature, let me tell you that different parts of the cooling system run at different temperatures. The temperature around the liner is the hottest place in the cooling system.

          H2O, mixed with Ethylene Glycol, Mixed in a situation with indifferent material, add to that a charge of voltage, then electrolysis, now add 500 degrees Fahrenheit than 30 degrees then add father time. Now add that its not a “Teflon gasket” its a composite material with Teflon bonded to a piece of steel. Then there’s the whole Cylinder head Expands away from and then contracts back to thing over time.

          Any seal will fail due to heat and chemistry change in the fluids intended to be sealed by the seal. The same principles have always been in force and always will.

          Justin

          1. What’s the best way to prevent boxer engine from headgasket fail then? if the design of boxer engine does have greater chance of coolant/oil eating away material than a v6 or i4, what should I do more to prevent gasket problem from happenning apart from more rigorous oil&coolant change?

            I am really really nervous now.

  349. I have heard, and read, of issues with the 1998+ 2.5l DOHC head gasket. How about the 2.2l SOHC in a 1997 Legacy L? Fewer issues with the head gaskets?

    1. The 2.2l isn’t known for Hg issues, we do replace them but since its a compositie Head gasket, its typically done at higher mileage than the same era 2.5l.

      Having said that you are looking at a 15 year old vehicle and the judgement should be made car by car.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  350. I came across this post while looking for “early symptoms of head gasket failure.” I own a 2005 Subaru Forester with 139,000 miles on it which i was told by a Subaru dealership was showing “signs of head gasket failure” at a recent service appointment, and they immediately wanted to do a repair for which they quoted me a price of $2,500. We purchased this car (new) with the understanding that this problem had been corrected by Subaru 2 years earlier. The car has been serviced religiously and except for a few rare occasions for oil changes over the 7 years that i have owned it, nearly all of the service was done by Subaru. The car does not overheat, there is no evidence of oil in the coolant, no smell, no leaks, the oil is clean, the battery is clean (was replaced less than 2years and the original battery showed no signs of corrosion), and no evidence of either oil or coolant leaking. Since it’s “diagnosis”, i have taken 2 trips (3 1/2 hours of highway driving each way) with no issues even when stuck in traffic. My husband refused to do this repair immediately as he wanted a second opinion before sinking that much money into the car. I loved this car, but am now uneasy driving it. I check the oil and coolant daily at this point. I don’t think that i would be tempted to purchase another Subaru and am seriously considering just getting rid of it. With none of the typical “symptoms” present, on what else could they be basing this “diagnosis?” The car has been impeccably cared for – all required recommended service. I would love your input. Thanks

    1. Hi Barbara,

      If you read the article you will see it can leak coolant, oil or fail internally. Monitoring the coolant level wont do much for you if the HG are leaking oil or at the earliest signs of starting to fail internally.

      Unless you crawl under the car, remove the splash pan, and then look for oil leaks I am not sure how you would see the “early symptoms of head gasket failure”.

      You are over checking your fluids.

      Is $2500 more or less than a new car?

      If you need an AWD Wagon, what else do you think you might buy that would cost less to own at 140k?

      Justin

  351. hello again -been since Mar 1 –my 2006 Outback wagon with now -149,670 miles on it –had not had head gaskets replaced yet as recommended —went in for spark plugs today and oil change –says leak is worse and it needs done soon–how much do the good gaskets cost shipping and all ? Is there other brands you are ok with using ?? Thanks for the reply
    jennifer

  352. Hi Justin,

    I own a 1999 Subaru Outback Limited, and it has approx. 112,000 miles. Last week it was in the shop prior to our 3000 mile move across the country next month. The car had a coolant leak in the head gasket, which was replaced. Also, the two differentiated boxes (?) were replaced, the timing belt, and a filter.

    Six days later, I have a leak in the engine, not sure which fluid it is, and will need to take it back to the shop tomorrow. I am concerned that I will have problems with my car during our trip back east, especially with the car full of our household goods that the movers are not taking. I appreciate any thoughts regarding my car. I did not use a dealer, but I paid over $2300.00 for repairs and can not afford to have anything else go wrong with the car. Thank you, Clea

  353. Hi Justin,

    Thank you for reply & all your help.

    I will follow your recommendations.

    FYI: I went to the Dealer & spoke to the Mechanic that is doing the head gaskets replacement, & he said that if supply the MLS head gaskets, he will install them. It cost me a case of beer, but well worth it.

    Best,

    Jack O’Donnell

  354. Hi Justin,

    You have a great Blog, lots of great info & recommendations…

    I can not thank you enough for your informative website that helped me recently with my 2002 Subaru Legacy Wagon L.

    I have a 2002 Subaru Legacy Wagon with 2.5L (engine) with 104k miles on it. I had the timing belt, water pump, and all the belts replaced (along with a new coolant) 6 months ago. One year ago I replaced the valve cover gaskets & seals, because I fond oil on the spark plugs, when I doing a spark plugs change. The car is in very condition, except for the head gasket.

    Earlier this week, I was doing an oil change (myself) & I noticed oil leaking from the bottom of the driver’s side head gasket… I thought that the head gasket would probably need to be replaced. So I googled/searched “Subaru head gasket leak”, & up came your Blog” Subaru head gasket problems explained”, I spent a couple hours reading many of your recommendations & answers (great info). Then I called “Subaru of America” (as your Blog had suggested) & SOA agreed to pay 50% of the head gasket replacement (repair) if I have the work done at the Subaru Dealer.

    I would prefer to have MLS head gaskets installed, but unfortunately the Dealer said that they can only use the “Subaru improved composite head gaskets”. It’s my wife’s car & she wants to get the car repaired at the Subaru Dealer, for half price (she the boss).

    These are questions that I hope you can answer:

    1. What other parts, seals and/or gaskets should I have replaced while the engine is out of the car? Which seals and/or gaskets are easy to get to (not a lot of added labor) while the engine is out of the car?

    2. Should I replace the head bolts?

    3. Should I have the oil pump resealed and the rear separator plate or “inspection cover” replaced, with an Oil Pump Reseal Kit and/or Separator Plate Kit?

    4. Should I replace the Cam Seals & Cam Plug Kit?

    5. Should I replace the Valve Stem Seals & Valve Stem Seal Kit?

    6. Should I replace the Coolant Cross Over O-rings?

    7. Should I replace the Timing Belt Tensioner?

    8. Should I replace the Timing Belt Idlers (1 geared Timing belt idler, and/or the 2 smooth Timing belt idlers?

    9. Should I replace the Timing Belt guides?

    10. Should I replace the front and/or rear Main seals?

    Thank you for all your help,

    Best,

    Jack O’Donnell

    1. These are questions that I hope you can answer:

      1. What other parts, seals and/or gaskets should I have replaced while the engine is out of the car? Which seals and/or gaskets are easy to get to (not a lot of added labor) while the engine is out of the car?

      2. Should I replace the head bolts? Some dealers will some wont

      3. Should I have the oil pump resealed and the rear separator plate or “inspection cover” replaced, with an Oil Pump Reseal Kit and/or Separator Plate Kit? The sep plate will be metal so now, We usually suggest resealing the oil pump.

      4. Should I replace the Cam Seals & Cam Plug Kit? If they show signs of leaking, or any residue at all

      5. Should I replace the Valve Stem Seals & Valve Stem Seal Kit? Not typically

      6. Should I replace the Coolant Cross Over O-rings? If they are leaking

      7. Should I replace the Timing Belt Tensioner? YES

      8. Should I replace the Timing Belt Idlers (1 geared Timing belt idler, and/or the 2 smooth Timing belt idlers? YES

      9. Should I replace the Timing Belt guides? You dont have them

      10. Should I replace the front and/or rear Main seals?

      The dealer will decide what should be done and should not be, based on a combination of factors, some on a visual inspection some based on not wanting any down time waiting for a machine shop to replace the Valve stem seals and most Dealer techs aren’t capable of this them selves.

      I am going to leave you with this.

      I know your wife is the boss, but here is a link to why your about to waste your money!! If you read the comments to the post where all of the Dealer repaired cars last a year or 2 why set your self up for that?

      https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-repair/

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  355. Hello Justin,

    I know now that I have made a poor decision by purchasing this vehicle. So here are my related questions. I have a 1998 legacy GT limited that has had the original 2.5 engine replaced with an EJ22 engine. The seller (who claimed to be a subaru machanic) claimed the engine came from a subaru impreza, but the dealer looked at the part number on the coil pack and has said that part number is from a legacy. So, I really do not know where this engine came from and the seller is no longer answering my emails. My question is how do I know what parts to order for this engine? Is there something (a mark or serial number) on the engine itself that tells me if it came from an Impreza or from a legacy and what year the engine is, so I know how to order a replacement part? Or, does that really make any difference for an EJ22? Second question is are there problems with head gaskets on EJ22 engines? Thanks for any guidance in advance.

    Terry

    1. The 2.2l block has the VIN number of the car it came installed in originally stamped on the drivers side rear area of the block. You can have the vin decoded and order for that year and make.

      2.2l have less HG issues, but we still replace them as well as perform valve jobs.

      Putting a 2.2l in place of a 2.5l is really a bad idea, its just better to fix whats there and move on.

      Most of the ones we have seen have left a lot to be desired I am afraid, I sincerely home that’s not the case with yours.

      Justin

  356. I am considering a 2003 manual Baja with 141k miles on it, and I am concerned about the head gasket situation. How likely is it that a Baja with that many miles would have head gasket issues?

    I previously owned a used 2005 Legacy GT, and the turbo went out twice on me in two years. I am not wanting to relive those expensive memories. Thanks!

    1. Hi Bryan,

      Two like Baja’s can have completely different service aspects, its all about the uses and maintenance aspects. Its hard to say where this one falls into. We see cars at 60k with leaks and cars over 200k with none.

      You should have it inspected by a Subaru guy local to you and go from there.

      Justin

  357. Hi there, I have a 2003 Forester and over the past couple of weeks noticed that the air conditioning was blowing out warm air. I didn’t notice the temperature gauge, until yesterday when it was all the way up–but not in the red. Luckily, I was a few blocks away from a friend’s house so I went there and called my husband who came and put water in the radiator and coolant reservoir. I drove home (approx. 7 miles) and made a few short trips today and the temperature has remained steady–just above the first line on the gauge. We are really bad about maintaining the car, so I have no idea when the coolant level was last checked. The car has 90,000 miles on it. Based on what I have read, it sounds like the head gaskets are failing. My question is, do I need to bring it in immediately to have the head gaskets checked (and probably replaced) or do I have some time?

    1. It would be better to have it diagnosed and take things from there, I wouldn’t wait as if its something minor that leads to something major that would be unfortunate.

      Justin

  358. Hi,

    I was just wondering if a 2011 Subaru Impreza 2.5i 5dr Hatch basic model with AT has any of these problems ie. HG problems ect.. or is there no issues with this year (last year b4 new model redisign). I bought this car just b4 the new year hit. What should I look for regarding things going wrong so I could catch the problem b4 getting worse. Or has everything been fixed??? Has Subaru fixed all of the problems for the 2011 Impreza 5dr hatch AT?

    1. Hi Tony,

      The 2011 Subaru Impreza has the same gasket in it as a 2003 Subaru Impreza, it it develops a leak it should be over 100k and a oil leak as long as its maintained properly that is.

      Justin

  359. pdate: After taking some time to really look over the engine, it appears as though a sparkplug wire has come undone.(Probably the same one the mechanic had tightened before). It was all I could do to get it back down into place because of all the stuff in the way, but it would not lock in place. I’m wondering if the plug has also come out or is damaged. Turning over the engine produces the smell of gas under the hood.
    The oil underneath appears to be from the rear main seal leaking instead of related to this issue.
    With 140,000 miles on it, I think I’ll get the timing belt changed now along with the plugs & wires. Do you think I have to worry about the head gasket anytime soon?

  360. Hi Justin,
    I am considering purchasing a 2001 Forester S with 85000 miles for $7600. The car has never had the coolant conditioner recall addressed and has been towed behind an RV for an unknown amount of miles. It has never had the head gaskets replaced. Any thoughts?
    Thanks in advance,
    Peter

    1. My thoughts are to have a look at the head gaskets for external fluid leaks. I think even if you had to have them done later in life you would still be getting a great low mileage Subaru.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  361. i have a 96 sub l 2.2 sohc with 236k on it and my hg just went so hell yes i well buy one more but it well have to be 96 to 2000 only

  362. Just a few comments about the SUBARU 2.5 and Subaru. My mother has a 97 Outback with the 2.5. It is parked in a garage and taken to a good Subaru mechanic every couple of months for a checkup. She only drives a few thousand miles a year (since she retired a few years ago). Her Outback has 170 K miles on it and it is going in for a second head gasket( the first head gasket was the new and improved one). She previously had a mid 80’s Subaru 4 wheel drive wagon 1.8 liter engine(it went almost 350 K miles before being retired)and never required a head gasket. I was shocked at the 1st headgasket replacement at around 90K on her 1997 2.5 Outback and accused her on not paying attention and not having it properley serviced. I have always double checked on it every time she comes over to my house or I go to hers! I have researched this issue and talked to several very good Subaru mechanics about it. They make a good steady living oh this issue. They are seeing the same head gasket issue starting to happen on the 2009 models now! ! ! They say head gaskets on Subarus are just considered a normal thing (like a timeing belt), but at a price tag of $1400.00 to $3,000.00. Depending on where you take it. Shame on Subaru for being too ignorant, lazy or greedy to correct this on going defect for about 15 years now it looks like! ! ! ! I have had most of my vehicles for over 200 K miles (Toyota, Chevy, Honda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu and Nissan and never had an issue like this! SHAME ON SUBARU FOR NOT FIXING THIS! ! Dont plan on having a Subaru much past the warranty, unless you want to pay for this problem!

    1. I am sorry she has had to have the repair twice, that does point to a lack of understanding of the real world maintenance aspects, or a potential substandard repair if the updated Subaru head gasket was in fact used. We have seen the repair on the first Generation hold up much better than that and you also don’t see a lot of posts here about the DOHC with multiple failures, so suffice to say your Moms situation is not the norm. The issue on a 2009 is separate from the one you have and also there is no wide spread issue on the 2009 anyone telling you different is fueling your fire of negativity which is human nature.

      Justin

  363. Hi Justin,

    Thanks so much for your wealth of information! I remember looking up information from your site back in 2008 when I bought my current 2002 H6 Outback.

    Unfortunately, I was t-boned today and fear with her old age, 205,000 miles, and many memorable cross country trips that she might be totaled. I’ve begun looking around and found a nice 2002 4 cyl Outback. I’ve read about the head gasket issue here, and would like to know your opinion:

    At 124,000 miles for a 2002 EJ25, if it has no service records showing head gasket work or timing belt change, would it be asking for trouble to buy this car?

    Thanks so much! Keep up the good work.

    -Tyler

  364. We have a 03 Baja that has begun giving us problems. A few months ago I noticed an antifreeze smell once in a while and thought it may be the heater core, but the heat seamed to work fine all winter. Then a couple months ago we had the oil changed and before my wife got home, she said that the car missed or hessitated in the middle of riding, but was fine from then on. Next day we took it back to mechanic who said one of the spark plug wires seemed lose and he was sure we were way passed due for new plugs, wires, etc. So he secured the wire and we were fine for another couple months, although my wife didnt drive it but a few times as she was unsure with it. Today she called me saying she thinks the engine blew. It could be the head gasket, not sure. It lost power & she coasted the quarter mile home. To me, it sounded as though the engine was still running normal rpms and firing, but very loud chugs, like the exhaust was exiting up front. Lifting the hood showed a little smoke from oil sprayed on what looked to be a catalytic converter, maybe, & oil on the underside of the engine. What do you think?

    1. There isn’t much I can do here without seeing the car my self which isn’t going to happen, I would be guessing at best.

      I am guessing that the engine is not blown as that would be unusual, but it does need to go to a Subaru guy local to you at least for a determination of all its current and pending needs..

      I does sound like the car has given you a lot of warning signs such as the coolant smell, misfires, and it also sounds like none were really addressed?

      Justin

      1. Update: After taking some time to really look over the engine, it appears as though a sparkplug wire has come undone.(Probably the same one the mechanic had tightened before). It was all I could do to get it back down into place because of all the stuff in the way, but it would not lock in place. I’m wondering if the plug has also come out or is damaged. Turning over the engine produces the smell of gas under the hood.
        The oil underneath appears to be from the rear main seal leaking instead of related to this issue.
        With 140,000 miles on it, I think I’ll get the timing belt changed now along with the plugs & wires. Do you think I have to worry about the head gasket anytime soon?

  365. Justin –
    I can not thank you enough for your informative website that helped me recently with my 2003 Subaru Forrester. At the 60,000 mile service at the dealership I have used since day 1, the service rep explained the head gasket repair needed at the tune of $2500. After saying I’d think about it I drove home with my stomach churning and not knowing what to do – such an enormous problem for a vehicle with such low mileage and out of warranty… Fortunately, I found your site and the wealth of information. I had bought my car in August 2002 so felt that factored in to my case…
    Long story short, from what I learned I called Subaru’s 800 number first and couldn’t have been treated better or more professionally by an agent who set up a case. When next I contacted the dealership’s service manager, he assured me the work would be done with only a minimal co-pay of 200-300 dollars, I can’t remember exactly. Why not ? Because when the work was done, they said “No charge”. They claimed the call to SOA had nothing to do with anything but I’ll always wonder.
    So anyone looking for advice from a complete novice –
    #1. Maintain your Subaru regularly and establish a relationship with your mechanic – in my case I got lucky with a dealership. Major problems out of warranty are not fun to deal with but SOA is not going to be much help if you don’t.
    #2. If you find a site such as Justin Stobbs has set up and you gain knowledge, power and satisfaction from it, be grateful and thank him personally.
    This situation was especially aggravating because of the low mileage and the reputation Subaru had in my mind when I bought this vehicle, intending to keep it for a long long time. Other than this, it’s been fairly low maintenance. My confidence has been completely restored at this point – so thanks again to you and all the posters before me.

    1. Hello Monica,

      Thanks for the kind words!

      The call to SOA was the reason it was done for less, the Subaru Dealer Billed Subaru instead of you. Good work on your part but most likely your VIN # was an affected vehicle of the WWP-99 campaign and the Subaru Dealer should have been forthright with this information right off the bat.

      Thanks for posting your experience, I think its good for many readers to know your story!

      Justin

      Your Independent Subaru Expert

  366. Hey Justin,
    Im very impressed with your blog!!
    I am going to look at a 98 Forester with 155000 miles tomorrow.
    The guy says it has an oil leak but that his mechanic says to just change the oil every 3000 miles and it will be fine. I saw that i should check the coolant res for oil or sulphur smells. is there anything else to check to make sure its not a head gasket?
    I really like subaru’s but i dont want to buy a car that needs major repairs right away.
    also how do i tell which engine it has as its on the cusp of the change over.
    Thanks
    Matt

  367. Holy cow! This article is way beyond great! It is way beyond excellent! THANKS!!!

    If I weren’t 3000 miles away, I’d surely bring my Forester to you!

  368. Justin,

    You have best info on the web for this problem.

    I have 1997 Legacy GT wagon that is by far the BEST CAR I have ever owned. I had to have the HG’s replaced on it at 122,000 miles. It was a bit of a struggle to justify a $2,000 repair on a car with that many miles but I new I could not replace the car for even two or three times that amount without inheriting a whole new set of problems. 56,000 miles later it still runs great. If the rest of your Subaru is in good shape, it is worth the cost to replace your head gaskets.

    I have two questions for you.

    1. Do you think a sealed Gel Cell or Glass Mat battery would help with the battery acid venting problem? I have not seen that mentioned here. I think they cost about twice as much as a regular battery but, would help to eliminate that problem. What are your thoughts?

    2. I am currently looking for a newer Soobie and I have found a 2004 Outback wagon with 89,000 miles and a 2006 Outbacki with 136,000 miles. They both are in great shape, selling for about 7-8,000 dollars and neither has any leaks at this time. i don’t know of any way to tell if the HG’s have been replaced or not and the sellers do not have any records. Every thing being equal, (which I know they are not. They are two different designs, it’s apples and oranges) what would you recommend purchasing? A newer Subaru with more miles or an older one with less miles? i prefer the 2006 design and am leaning towards more miles on a newer Subaru. When i buy a car I keep them as long as possible and run up about 12 to 14,000 miles year.

    If you ever decide to open a shop in Syracuse, NY, let me know and I will be there! We average 152 inches of snow per winter and it is very difficult to find a decent used Subaru for less than 10 grand here. You see them every where on the road but people just don’t want to give them up and when they do, they sell quick. Subaru should be the official car of Syracuse.

    Thank you Justin. YOU DA MAN !!!

    Ed

    1. Hi Ed,

      What I always try to explain is that the battery venting acid is just one of many contributing factors. The potential issue with a Gel type battery is how it is maintained by the Alternator, it can create a situation where the on time or load factor of the alternator is greater creating more even more of a possibility of voltage in the cooling system over time increasing the PH level. What I try to point out and I admit it is difficult to completely understand; is that the corrosion on the terminal is more of an indicator of what is happening to the primary electrical circuit.

      I like the Optima type battery but do like to point out that about once a month it should be charged overnight with the proper charger as the current electrical systems in cars do not charge the gel type battery’s as well as we would like.

      Both the 2004 and 2006 have the same HG, the 2006 will have less of a chance of developing a leak if it has been maintained with OE Subaru Coolant and the oil has been changed lots and often over the 2004, but it is really about having a good inspection done by a Subaru guy in your part of the country and buying which ever car appears to have the fewest needs. From there which one fits you the best as you will be driving it for a while! The cost of ownership will be be pretty close to the same over a 5 year period.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  369. I have had my 2003 Outback serviced at my local Subaru dealer from day 1. It has done the head gasket and I argued politely with them that I understood that it was out of warranty so it is my problem but I felt it is a bit rich that they profit from the repair job when it is an engineering design fault of Subaru’s. They had no hesitation in doing it at trade price and knocked $1100 off the price.

    1. Hi Steven,

      Thats great that you were able to get some help.

      The only problem with that is you are paying to have the repair made by someone in a huge hurry, cutting corners and using the same gasket that already let you down.

      Justin

  370. I apologize if this question was already answered, this is such a long thread.

    I am looking into purchasing a used Subaru, my budget is leaving me to the older models, precisely the ones that seem to have the head gasket trouble.
    In fact, I am looking at one on wednesday that is a 1998 outback legacy that has 205k miles on it, the current owner says that her mechanic told her that the head gasket should be replaced asap before it blows because thats what subaru’s do around 200k.
    I am wondering how much it would cost to replace a head gasket that hasn’t been blown yet?
    She is offering the car for $1,500 OBO, and I have a budget of about $2,700 on car costs (not including insurance and licensing etc).
    What do you say Justin?
    Thank you!

  371. Hi, after reading that oil deteriorates with time because it fuses with gasoline, i was puzzled if it is wise to use synthetic oil at all. If you use synthetic oil for longer (because it is meant to do that) wouldn’t it be worse because there would be more PH levels? or am i wrong?

    1. Hi Serge,

      Welcome to oil is like politics 101.

      Fully synthetic oil is the best possible oil for lubrication purposes, the makes of this oil tout that it will last longer, and in some cases the oil itself will, but on a Subaru the oil filter is to small to matter what you use for oil. When extremes are present in an engine this is what you want to use.

      Synthetic blend offers a lower price than full synthetic with most of the better lubrication properties.

      Conventional oil was ok to use for years and years until they figured out a way to make more money with clever advertising. I will also add that the tolerances for main and rod bearings are tighter now, allowing the use of thinner types of oil to decrease drag thus increasing economy many of these thinner oils are Synthetic as they have to be.

      Time will tell if the bearings last to 300k this way.

      The longer the oil is in the crankcase the more diluted it will become, there is no changing that a full synthetic oil may be more resilient to dilution but only a oil analysis will prove that and I point out only in some cases as its not 100% accurate and really why bother, why not just keep it simple.

      Justin

  372. Justin:

    Just had the head gaskets replaced in my 2000 Legacy GT Wagon. The car overheated and sputtered to get to a highway off ramp while my daughter was driving. Great car with 145,000 miles on it. Timing belt had been replaced on time, and it was not burning oil. When we tried to start it, fluid shot up out of the radiator overflow bottle. Mechanic replaced the head gaskets, and put in a new radiator along with other typical things. When i went for the car, mechanic said the car got very hot before it was shut down and the oil smelled burnt. He said he didn’t have a good feeling about the life of the car from now on. Nothing specific, but he just felt I should trade it in ASAP. I hate to do that after all this work. Any thoughts? Tom

    1. Hi Tom,

      That sounds awful, I am not sure what you are asking? If your asking me if you should stick someone else with your Problem, that’s really up to your conscious. But know this, that’s exactly what will happen if you trade it in. You may even see a post on this website about someone that just bought a used 2000 Subaru Legacy GT that has an issue.

      I am curious as to why when it was apart the shop didn’t tell you their feeling then and give you the chance to spend a little more to make sure you are making a worth while repair or bail and sell it as is, that’s the issue that I really have here. Every thing can be fixed!

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. What am I asking? I know I would rather keep my car than get rid of it at this point. i don’t want to stick someone else with my problem. I guess what I’m asking is whether you agree with what this guy said? There was still plenty of oil in the car, but he thinks the engine may have gotten too hot because the oil smelled bad. I guess I don’t understand what that means if it is running fine now that he has it all back together. He said it could have serious problems down the road, but he couldn’t be sure because he didn’t look inside and rebuild the engine. I guess he is saying that the overheating could have somehow weakened significant parts of the engine Bearings, pistons, crankcase, who knows?), and it might come back to haunt me if I hold onto the car. He said I should keep an eye on it in case it starts burning oil. Have you ever had any experience with this situation – one where the engine overheats as a result of the head gasket failure, but there is still oil in the crankcase? What would you suggest to the car owner? 140,000 some miles, with new head gaskets, radiator, timing belt tensioners, clutch, spark plugs, wires, etc. I thought I was good to go until he made that comment. Is he just being paranoid? Trying to somehow cover his tracks? He is not a regular Subaru guy, but someone who was recommended by another mechanic. I really didn’t have much choice. Thanks for your reply, Tom

  373. Hi, my 98 impreza just got totaled, I owned the car for 6 years and had zero issues. I am in the market for another used subaru I understand that the 2.5l engine up until 2009 will eventually need HG replaced. I am wondering about 2004 and later 2.5l engines as there seems to less problems with HG is there a reason other than they are newer, as well I am wondering about 2002-2005 wrx turbo engines as far as head gasket issues.

    Thanks

    1. The 2003 and newer 2.5l NA can develop oil leaks just like any other car, there are some cases of coolant leaks and internal failures but not like the 2000 to 2002.

      This is part an updated gasket, part better grounding, part better understanding of the coolant needs.

      WRX models are not known for HG issus but will have their share of situations through the years as well.

      If you liked your Impreza, I would suggest that you buy what you like and not worry as much about the what ifs. Just make sure you have a pre purchase inspection done if you are buying a used car and take it from there.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  374. hi Justin, just had head gaskets and timming belt ,tesionor and waterpump done on my moms 2000 legacy w 2.5 sohc during job my mechanic said he had dicovered a striped bolt in the block, i found a machinest who put in heli type coils in 2 spots replaced bolts planed head to .0009 and ajusted the valves,now the engine has a loud tapping noise when it gets to full temp , he had me bring to another mechanic to check the settings/or see if came loose , that mechanic said seems like in the block , it ran perfect and only had an external minor leak never overheated,it has 140.000 miles 2700 later very frustrated and dont know how to believe , it definetly seems to come from the machined side (paasenger) any thoughts would be apreciated thanks ,doug

    1. Hi Doug,

      Has anyone looked into whether or not the timing belt tensioner bracket has been updated? Or if the valves are to loose?

      We run into stripped bolt holes here and there repairing Subaru Head Gaskets, the correct way to repair it is with a “time cert” however and not a helicoil, but regardless of how it was repaired it would not cause a tapping noise.

      Its tough for me to help with a noise I cant hear mind you but it should be fairly straight forward for any one familiar with the Make to

      1. Diagnose the area of the noise.
      2. Figure out if its detrimental.
      3. Come up with a plan to resolve if it is.

      I will add that if there is a blame game going on, you probably wont have any “easy luck” getting any answers.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  375. Hi,

    I have been reading some of the comments and needed to share my current HG’s problem. Today, well driving my 2008 Outback it began making a funny sound and the check engine light came on. I pulled over checked the oil – very little, replaced the oil then noticed a small leak in the exhaust area. My oil light never came on! Immediately took my car to the dealership… only to be told there were some gaskets that needed to be replaced, to then be told that my HG’s needed to be replaced too. A 4,000 dollar bill so far. My questions are: How come the oil light didn’t come on? And why was this not picked up when I regularly change my oil every 3,000 miles?
    Thank you,
    Melissa

    1. Hi Melissa,

      You car does NOT have a low oil light, it has a no oil pressure light which is red and usually comes on when it’s to late. You never and I mean never ever want to see the oil light come on, instead check your oil every other tank of fuel, it’s the only way you will avoid low oil level related engine problems.

      Not sure if your noise was related to low oil levels? I didn’t get that from your post.

      $4,000.00 is height for a HG repair.

      You need to have a itemized list of what is being done and why, I’m sure your not paying 4,000 for oil leaks.

      The question about why during oil changes was this not brought up can only be answered by who is doing the oil changes, you need to understand that even at a Dealer it’s a “lube tech” changing your oil during an oil change only visit, meaning low level technician not capable of much more than changing your oil.

      I know many don’t have much else for choices in parts of the country but the
      Dealer has a profit model that does not benefit the customer in any way shape form or fashion.

      Sorry I cant offer much clarity, but you have some questions you need to ask.

      Hopefully this will all work ou for you, if you need to ask me something else once you have more information I can try to help further

      Jusrin

      1. Thanks Justin, I appreciate the help and will ask for an itemized bill.
        Thanks again.
        Melissa G

  376. Well, well, I am looking at a $2000+repair/replacement for head gaskets on my 82k mile 1998 Subaru Limited Edition Outback. Plus radiator replacement and oil leak issues. Love this car, but seriously…I had the same issue with my 1975 subaru dl, back in the 1980’s! It had about 100k miles on it. Is this planned obsolescence or what? Should I dig into my 401k or bite the bullet and get a new car? Arrggg!

    1. Hi MJC,

      Here’s what I don’t understand, “dig into the 401k” to make a $2,000.00 repair or go $30,000.00 In debt to buy a new car?

      I have answered this just to many times now, it will cost less to fix your car that you own now, than you will lose in first day depreciation of any new car you buy.

      If you want a new car go buy one, but don’t do it because you somehow think it costs less or represents more value. Its easy to buy a new car, harder to come up with the money for repairs, I understand that, i deal with this every day and it’s what the car makers want, they want high car sales.

      Cars cost money, any other car in Subaru’s class such as the Volvo or Audi cost much more to own. Other companies that have AWD don’t compare.

      It cost 1500.00 a year to own a car after it reaches 60k.

      I hope that helps some.

      Justin

  377. Hello Justin,good fun reading your blog!
    I have a 2000 outback with 94000m,and maintain it well.
    It had the wpp99 done at 38k,and at 60k abouts.it would drip abouthalf a shotglass of green stuff on the cement depending on the season..in the winter it dropped more,but the summer mostly none at all.Now I get oil from the top of the right HG,and it likes to gather up in the little crevices under the intake.Nope its not the oil sensor ,thats dry.Is there anything else this oil could come from this high up on the motor?Its a weeping amount like a teaspoon after a dozen short drives. At any rate,I`m having the Gates TB kit and 6 star gaskets done in a couple weeks,would I be okay to drive say an hour here and there?,or do these HG catastrophically give into a giant smokeball? thanksmuch! WC

    1. Hello Wil,

      No no smoke ball typically, just keep up on the fluids until you have it repaired. The only issue you could run into is if you have a breach in the gasket between coolant and combustion it could over heat and that wouldn’t be good.

      I woud think twice about the Gates belt kit, the idlers are lower quality than what the car came with, and that just doesn’t make much sense to use.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  378. I just bought a 1998 Subaru Legacy Outback (223000 kms), the previous owner was having issues with the car overheating and he had the thermostat replaced just before I picked the car up. I had the car inspected, it passed with a few very minor problems. On my way home tonight, it overheated, the heater stopped working and I could smell burning coolant but everything appears normal in the engine compartment. I have over $8000 worth of receipts for work that has been done on the car within the last 4 years, the head gasket has never been replaced or if it has, I don’t have the receipt. I love the car but I’m a little worried that it’s a lemon, considering that they sunk over $8000 into it before they sold it. On the other hand, I have an older car that has already had many repairs completed. Would it be wise to replace the head gasket and sell the car or is $8000 in repairs normal for an older Subaru?

    1. Hi Shannon,

      I truly hate reading these stories!

      The term “Lemon” only applies to a new car under a new car warranty not a 14 year old car. Not sure how one puts $8000.00 into a 1998 Outback without ever replacing head gaskets, but if a car is not maintained then yes the repairs will add up later. I typically suggest that it takes $1500.00 per year for repairs and maintenance after the car is older then 5 years, so $6000.00 would be about right.

      If you have a 1998 Outback 2.5l and anyone mentioned it over heated, you should not buy it, you should really never buy any used car without a pre purchase inspection done prior by a Technician familiar with the car unless buying it from a Subaru repair shop.

      Hind sight is 20/20 so what to do now?

      Because you just bought it, you can dump it on some one else just like someone dumped on you which I do not suggest, or you can fix it and drive it for many years to come, but I do strongly suggest a good inspection and repair by a Subaru Repair Shop.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  379. Hi-

    I have a 2000 Subaru Outback AWD and have a blown head gasket. It has been overheating, shutting off and the coolant literally boils out of the tank. The mechanic quoted a $2800 job to replace the head gasket and then go ahead and do other repairs while the car is broken down. He said the “quick fix” would be about $1500…but you might as well get the full deal to avoid major repairs down the road.

    Any suggestions or advice? I am on the fence about putting all of that money into repair or just selling the car.

    Thanks!

    1. Karin,

      If the Car still suits your needs you will be better off repairing it in terms of the financial part of this.

      If the Car no longer suits your needs than move on as spending money on a car you don’t intend to keep makes no sense unless its not running and the only way to unlock any value is to repair it..

      Its just that simple, buying a new car wont be cheaper actually it will be tens of thousands of dollars more expensive even if you keep the Subaru and do it again in another 12 years.

      When you make a substantial repair like $2500.00 and drive it for another 5 years and say 75,000 miles that comes out to 3 cents a mile, if you buy a $25,000.00 car and drive it for the same 5 years and 75000 miles it will cost cents 33 cents a mile.

      Hope that Helps

      Justin

  380. 2000 Subaru Forester replaced head gaskets @ 40,000 miles. 2004 Subaru Forester just replaced head gaskets and timing chain @ 72,00 miles (costly $2300.00). I was silly enough to buy the 2nd one 2004 Forester. What is going to go wrong? If you have a list, would you please let me have it. Thankyou

  381. Hi, i am thinking of buying an 2012 impreza 2.0i Premium hatchback, and am wondering if any of these things are any longer an issue. CR shows a predicted reliability of a half-red circle, not full, like some other japanese cars. I’m trying to decide between this and a toyota prius. Reliability is absolutely number 1 for me – i have always chosen cars based on the reliability rating and that hasn’t failed me (my current car – an acura RSX has 130,000 miles on it and except for a O2 sensor replacement has been super reliable – virtually no repairs at all! only normal wear and tear like battery and breaks). The prius has a top predicted reliability but there are price issues for me plus i’m having trouble finding one with a moonroof, which is also an important feature to me, as i use it all the time. Both cars feel comparably comfortable to me to sit in (though i have yet to testdrive the impreza), but the impreza is significantly more affordable, especially with the significantly improved fuel economy in the newest model. I might end up leaning towards the subaru, but engine problems is something i am not used to in a car at all and would be a show stopper. Any insights you can give as to the reasons for the less-than-excellent reliability predicted for the impreza? thanks!

    1. Olga,

      I am not aware of any engine problems with the Subaru? If you are revering to a potential HG issue the engine would still be the same just a few new gaskets and the engine is new design and NO ONE can comment factually on what it will be like, there just isn’t enough data yet.

      You will pay a lot more for a Prius than a Subaru Impreza, and they are not good comparisons as they are totally different cars, one is a hybrid, the other one a very safe practical AWD vehicle. The fact that Subaru has made a AWD vehicle get better Fuel economy is pretty compelling.

      With a Hybrid you may have the expense of a battery at some point if you keep it long enough. The RSX was a good car minus the transmission problems.

      Justin

  382. Wow, what a great forum. Thank you in advance for all the advice you are giving.

    I am a long-time Subaru owner. I can’t afford to buy new cars, so I typically buy a 10 year old Subaru for abotu $6000 with approx 100k miles. This has worked well for me, as my last 2 Legacy wagons (1995 and 1996) served me quite well with over 160k miles each before I decided to move on to something a bit newer, since I drive a lot in the winter.

    So now I’m looking at 2002 Outbacks. I am aware of the HG/coolant issue and I am thinking that maybe I don’t want to buy a Subaru from that year. There is on I’m looking at with 93k on it, that looks pretty nice. What shall I look for? What shall I ask the seller? (it’s a used car dealer). Do you have any advice for my next Subaru purchase?

    Was considering going with the Honda CRV of that same vintage instead to avoid all these issues, but the gas mileage doesn’t seem to be as good, and I have a set of snow tires I would like to move from my Legacy to the new car (presuming they haven’t changed the wheel size in that year Outback).

    If I’m looking at a $1200 expense, does it make sense to go with a newer model and pay $1200 more for say a 2003 or 2004 Outback?

    1. Hello Sharon,

      You really need to plan on having a Subaru Shop near you perform a pre purchase inspection, if the HG are leaking now than use that information to make your decision. If they are dry there is no guarantee they will stay that way but many do, we have customers with 2000 models with 200k that never have had to have the repairs made, and we just did a set on a 2008 last week with 67k.

      The current state of the used Car sales industry is not that great right now, as cars are hard to come by and New car dealers are keeping almost everything that comes in as trades and buying up many more at Auction, the small used car lots for the most part will not have the cream of the crop most likely. I know this as I also own a Sales Facility and we have had a tough go at buying good cars, we then see cars that we didn’t buy due to the price needed to buy them VS the leaking head gaskets and other issues for sale at our competitors with no repairs made. All I can say that unless you are buying a car form someone like us, you are making a large gamble without having a pre purchase inspection performed.

      As far as the CRV they are totally different cars while they do boast AWD its not the same as a Subaru. I have driven them in weather and prefer the Subaru hands down.

      To answer your Question, any car you buy should be within your budget and have an inspection done by a Subaru guy before you sign any contracts or become attached. A 2003 to 2004 will have less likelihood of external coolant leaks, but the same chance of external oil leaks.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  383. Justin,
    I have a 2004 forester XT with 110,000 miles that I am getting ready to sell. I have not had the timing belt or head gaskets replaced. Is this something I need to have checked/take care of before I can in good conscience sell the car to someone? To rephrase the question, would you feel comfortable buying this car with this many miles with the original HG and timing belts?

    I had my most recent major scheduled maintenance done at a Subaru dealership at 91,000 miles. I would assume they check for external oil leaks associated with HG problems and also timing belt wear, and they did not bring up any issues related to those two potential concerns. I use synthetic oil and change it regularly. I have never had any over heating issues.

    Are the turbo engines less susceptible to the head gasket failures? Does using synthetic oil help?

    Apologize if this was already addressed up above, did not see it in the many posts, but may have missed it. Thanks for your time and advice.

    V/R,
    Rick

    1. Hi Rick,

      The Xt Turbo model isn’t really suspect to the HG issues the non Turbos have, thats not to say it cant happen, just its not that common.

      You should replace the timing belt, tensioner and idlers and maybe the water pump about 5,000 miles ago.

      If you plan on selling it your self private party I do suggest you get it done, it will make the transaction go a lot smother.

      Hope that Helps

      Justin
      Your Independent Subaru Expert

  384. I recenctly purchased a 2007 Forester with 65k on it. Not knowing the past maintenance history I am going to change the coolant. Do you recommend using the Subaru coolant conditioner? It looks to have the original battery do you have any opinion on using an Optima battery I believe they don’t vent any gases.

    Thanks for your time.
    Bob

    1. Hello Bob,

      With the Optima Battery you do need to buy a battery charger as the Automotive alternator cannot properly charge the Optima battery. I usually suggest charging the Optima battery once a month to full capacity. The problem is that it is very possible to run the vehicle above 12.4 volts with all of the accessories on but below the 13.0 needed to charge the optima battery, because the battery will never be fully charged in a car the alternator “on time” will be increased defeating the purpose of the optima.

      I like the idea of the optima battery just on the fence in terms of $ and practicality.

      I would use the Green Subaru Long life coolant, and if still under any type of Subaru warranty use the conditioner.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  385. Hi,

    I have a 2005 Subaru Legacy Wagon 2.5i (non turbo) with 108k miles on it. I had the timing belt, water pump, and thermostat replaced at 105k miles. For the last month when I check the coolant in the reservoir bottle it is typically at the low level or below, so I have been adding a little coolant to bring the level above the low line. I notice after driving more than 30 minutes the coolant begins to overflow from the reservoir bottle and coolant collects on the splash guard below the engine. Last week, while driving in the mountains I noticed the temperature gauge begin to rise above its normal point. I stopped the car and let the car cool down – the gauge never entered the red area.

    I brought the car to my mechanic and he performed a pressure test of the coolant system, checked the fans and thermostat for correct operation, and performed a chemical test of the coolant. The car passes all of the these tests, but the mechanic thinks that the car has a internal head gasket leak and suggests replacement. What do you think? Have you seen internal head gasket leaks in the 2005 model year? From reading your site, I thought the internal HG leak was more common in the older subarus….

    Thanks!

    1. Hi Alex,

      Yes we have seen internal failures of the 2005 and newer models at that mileage. Its not very common but we have none the less seen it, if you read some of the posts I have written you will see the car has still yet to be tested properly to actually look for a head gasket leak. another thing to look for is Subaru had some cooling fan control issues for that year that ultimately may require ECM replacement. Hopefully whomever is looking at the car is aware of this and has maybe looked into it?

      Hope that helps

      Justin
      Your Independent Subaru Expert

  386. I guess I must have taken good care of my ’99 Forester with DOHC. It has 205K miles on it, and is only now exhibiting signs of gasket failure, some leaking. 2 months ago I ordered from factory an Impreza 5-door Limited, and just waiting to see if I can hold out for the new car, or buy something similar. Also leaking main engine seal, so that would really need to be replaced. And if I kept it, the timing belt, etc., etc. Seems too much for a car that I’m going to trade-in/scrap/whatever.

    Though, up and until this point, I’ve been really happy with this car, and is why I’m planning on getting my 3rd.

    1. Hi Amos,

      The 1999 Forester would have a SOHC 2.5l which means one cam per cylinder head. 205k is good use out of any car. It cost you 12 cents a mile plus what ever you put into for maintenance this is assuming a 25k purchase price which was average for that era Forester new. If you bought it used it cost much less per mile.

      Justin

  387. I had a 1997 Subaru with about 177,000 that overheated and i let it set for about 3 or 4 months during the winter. I started driving it again and after about 300 miles it did not overheat. I ended up selling it telling the buyer about the overheat problem. I bought a used Mountaineer and now have sold it because of the gas mileage. I would like to buy another used Subaru. In your opinion what year would be the best option? Since i can only buy used and most likely no newer then 2004. So far i have found a 1999 forester with 103,000, a 2001 outback and 2002 forester both with about 145,000 that are in my price range. What issues should i look for and would buying newer with more miles be better or buying older with less miles be best?

  388. Hello,

    I’m sure glad I found this site – lots of great info and very happy to find out about you (I’m very close to Kirkland).

    We have a 2007 Outback with a 2.5 engine and 71k miles. Just finally did the 60k service at a local dealer and was told the bad news that the head gaskets are leaking. I was shocked to hear this and when questioning him further was told that I could delay for awhile and keep an eye on levels, and that it was good that coolant wasn’t leaking yet. He was very vague about timing/miles. I really don’t trust this shop as they also sold me a headlight and I know it worked the night before I took it in for service. Price quoted was $2200 + tax and didn’t mention any other things they would recommend to do at the same time.

    The main reason I was so shocked is that I’ve driven Subaru’s over 20 years now and am too familiar with the head gasket problems of the older cars – yes, we paid for head gaskets on our 1998 Outback and our son’s 2000 Legacy GT so when we bought this car, we were assured that the head gasket issues had been resolved and engines redesigned. We bought this car new and have taken excellent care of it, changing oil and all services on time with the exception of the being late on the 60k. There has never been any oil on the driveway and it has smelled ‘hot’ every so often ever since it was new but temp was never elevated. We have added oil lately but not very much.

    About how much would it cost if I bring it to you and am I too far over the warranty miles to get any help from Subaru? Is there any way to say how long I can put this off without messing up my car? The reason the 60k service was late is because of $$ and now the head gasket problem is not welcome news. Any words of wisdom is appreciated!

    Thank-you!!

    1. Hello Karin,

      We can help, I will start by saying that the dealer really should have waited to perform the 60k until you knew you weren’t going to do the head gaskets in the next couple of months as it would have cut the price for that service in half, or well at least it does here.

      We charge about 15 to 20% less than the Dealer and actually do much more than they do. Many Dealers do not pull the engine out as the Techs are used to doing the job under warranty and as fast as they can. The dealer is also putting in the same head gasket that already failed as well, where we will use a MLS gasket not offered by Subaru. The timing components should be considered as it will lower forward going ownership costs by giving you a 105k service that you can mostly skip as the timing belt would have been done with the head gasket repair for parts only prices rather than parts and labor in 30k.

      It would be better to start with a evaluation and figure out how you may have from there.

      There is a plastic splash pan with a absorbent material that collects any fluids that leak from the engine, it isn’t until that “diaper is full” that you will ever see the fluids on the ground.

      You can call the shop and talk to any of the Advisors and they will be happy to set up a time for us to have a look.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  389. Hello Jason

    Being from Tacoma I have to get a emission test every 2 years, in some of your replies you said that 2.2 engines would have a hard time passing the emission test.
    I am looking to buy a 1995-2000 Impreza with a 2.2 engine would this model and year range be able to pass the emission test ?

    Thanks Frank

    1. Hello Rank,

      What I conveyed was the 2.2l wouldn’t meet newer emissions requirements, not that it couldn’t pass the test in place now. That is two separate situations.

      Every 4 years or so the limits that a vehicle can pollute are lowered by the Department of ecology and EPA, the current test is just testing the car for codes by hooking up the Diagnostic connector, but what determines the number of systems and potential codes, is the year of the car. A 1996 has far fewer systems than a 2006. Subaru couldn’t proceed with the 2.2l as it wasn’t feasible to add the complexity of the newer emissions systems to the older engine platform and expect the car to get out of its own way which is why the engine was dropped from US production in favor of the 2.5l. What many do not understand is it takes power and fuel economy robbing sub systems to clean up the tail pipe emissions emitted form the tailpipe of a modern vehicle to clean it up.

      Technology has now caught back up and Subaru is again able to offer a smaller engine meeting current emissions requirements and still have enough power to propel the car.

      Hope that helps

      Justin
      Your Independent Subaru Expert

  390. Hi Justin,
    Fantastic site mate. Nice work.
    I was just looking for a bit of guidence with an 01 Outback.
    Started to run a bit warmer than usual at highway speeds, so freaked out about head gasket issues, I changed the coolant and took the thermostat out, as I live remotly and am waiting on a new one.
    The coolant was only 3000km old, as it had just been in for a 150,000km service.
    However, it is still running warmer than it should, and as soon as you back it off, the temp stabilises.
    No air bubbles, or discolouration, in the coolant when it’s running.
    I have not heard of the water pumps being an issue with Subi’s but is this the next port of call, along with a pressure test to, hopefully, rule out a head gasket,
    or should I get the HG done anyway on a car of this age and Km’s.

    Thank you for your wonderful site.

    KInd regards,
    Hamish

    1. Hello Hamish,

      Possibilities are a restricted radiator, cooling fans not coming on when they should deterioration to the water pump impeller, internal leak at the head gaskets etc.

      All need to be evaluated to know whats wrong with the cooling system.

      The only and I mean only way to look for an internal failure of a Head gasket is using an exhaust gas analyzer while looking for presence of Exhaust in the cooling system with the engine running at higher rpms and preferably under load.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  391. Hello Justin,
    I have a 2006 Outback with 141,000 miles (bought it at 96,000 miles ).I have been smelling a hot smell when idling -take to a Subaru dealer for oil changes -they said I need head gasket repaired and to change timing belt also -$1600 –I have a shop nearby we have used for years for other vehicle repairs and feel they are honest people so I made an appt for them to look at it this week and see if they can do the work for less money .Should they use specific parts for the repairs or should I just trust they will use the right parts? Any other advice ?

    1. Hello Jennifer,

      We feel really good about the Six star head gaskets. But yes you should let the shop you are using make the call and supply the parts as they will be the one on the hook for the warranty and may have a good relationship with a vendor and want to buy from that vendor as they know they will get help if there is an issue.

      Justin

      1. Shop said yes-needs head gaskets and to take to a Subaru dealer –they do not have the right tools for the job–also said the steering column is almost shot—so looking at $2300 for all of it —should I trade it in -still owe 4 years of $200 payments –9600 plus repairs of 2300 –$11,900 for a 2006 OBW with 141,000 miles –just need a learned opinion-thanks for listening!

        1. Jennifer,

          Thats really a tough spot.

          Usually I will tell you its going to make more sense to keep what you already have. The $9600 and the $2300.00 for repairs doesn’t bother me, but because you are financing it thats the tough spot.

          I dont generally think you should finance a used vehicle unless its only a few years old AND you have had a pre purchase inspection.

          I understand the economics of it but unfortunately see this situation to many times .

          The choices are repair it and expect to keep it for the loan term, bail now and either not disclose the needs if your conscious will allow it or be honest and take a hit on the trade in amount.

          The part I dont like is the reason you are in the situation you are in is 1. someone sold a car that needed work 2. you didn’t have a pre purchase inspection. You most likely wont repeat buying used car with out a pre purchase inspection going forward but someone else could very well get stuck with that exact same car in the exact same condition.

          Id really like to suggest that you find a Subaru shop in your area let them do a complete vehicle evaluation and take it from there, if it looks like the HG repair is the only real thing going on with it than it may still be a good idea to repair it if its just one thing on the list I think you should move on since you are making payments. I cant Imagine that you need a steering column by the way and this is one reason I suggest someone else have a look.

          Justin

          1. Thank you for the reply –will let Romain Subaru take a look at the steering wheel -hard for me to trust any one opinion-will see what happens -if I can fix one thing at a time over a 8-10 month period -I may keep it -was hoping for over 300,000 miles on it!

  392. Justin, I found your forum during a google search for head gasket problems. I am amazed at the time you have put into helping others and was wondering if you may be able to help me. I have a 2002 outback ll bean with the H6 and was recently told that the Head gasket has begun to fail. The car has 114000 miles but I do love it. The price to fix was quoted in the $2,500 price range and wanted to know if this appears fair? Also, the car as many issues, the windshield is cracked, the A/C compressor is toast and the exhaust needs replacing. Yikes! Unfortunately I live near Parsippany, NJ and not near you for repairs. I would feel more confident in making the repairs if I could speak with a mechanic that specializes in Subies. Would you happen to know of any hear in the northern part of NJ near Parsippany?

    Thanks for your time and appreciate any help you can provide.

    Frank

    1. Hi Franke,

      I think that based on where you live that the price sounds about right, it is a big job! I would make sure they check the timing chain guides and let them replace them if they are questionable while its apart. The rust does add complexity and cost I am afraid however.

      I can check with one of my suppliers and see who they sell to in that part of the country and if there is anyone I will email you the info.

      Thanks

      Justin

  393. Justin:

    thanks for a great site – reading thru the posts and your replies has been very helpful. I have a 2005 Outback 2.5 XT Limited. The car suites my needs very well. I have put about 100,000 miles on the car, spending roughly .10 a mile on repair and maintenance. Compared to the roughly .22 a mile spent on depreciation, it seems like good economics to keep the car going. It is currently leaking oil, which by itself doesn’t bother me, but the oil is leaking onto the exhaust, creating smoke and an awful smell. With 104,500 miles, the timing belt is due for replacement. What are the chances that the oil leak will go away with the timing belt work completed? Another question – I have had to replace the clutch bearing twice – seems like the bearing is only good for 50k. Is this normal? thanks for your help.

    1. Hello Gretta,

      The Throw out bearing should last longer than that as should the pilot bearing, its really not all that common for them to fail, heat and lack of lubrication are the contributing factors in longevity.

      The oil leak will go away when its addressed, so if its a cam seal and they are added onto the timing belt service then yes it should go away, but if its a valve cover gasket and not done as part of the timing belt service then no.

      Justin

  394. I recently had my head gaskets replaced (Six Star) along with timing belt and everything connected to it (2000 OBW H4 base model, EJ251). I have an issue that I hope you might be able to shed some light on.

    I just realized a loud clicking noise from the valves (or potentially nearby) when the engine is warm. There is no noise when the engine is cold. The frequency of the clicking goes along with throttle. It sounds like a hundred saxophonists practicing fast scales, typical noise of metal-on-metal.

    I don’t know how long it’s been going on, because I can’t remember when I last popped the hood in idle after driving for a while. I have heard of clicking/ticking noises with the engine cold that go away as the engine warms up, but not the other way around. I also have the feeling that the knocking that is not unusual with this engine has become a bit more pronounced. That goes away, though, when the engine warms up. Oil level is fine, but I don’t have a means to test oil pressure. The shop is going to take a look soon, but I hope to get some idea already what I might be up against.

    I hope it’s something simple and that the valves weren’t adjusted properly without causing damage. Or something with the injectors or belts.

    What’s your opinion?

    Thanks so much in advance (again).

    1. Hello Mischa,

      It could be the valves are out of adjustment, but typically replacing head gaskets doesn’t change valve clearance, so if they were not out of adjustment and noisy as a result before they shouldn’t be now.

      Valve noise would also tend to get better as it warms up and the clearance tightens up a bit.

      I am at a disadvantage not being able to hear the noise, so I cant tell you all of the could be’s.

      But if its going to be looked at locally that sounds like the best bet.

      Injector noise is common, and maybe now that you have had some repairs done you could be a little more sensitive to your car? We do in fact have customers complain of noises that they didn’t think were there prior only to take them out to the parking lot and start up half a dozen other Subaru’s so they can listen to the same noises.

      Now I m not saying that’s whats wrong in this case just one possibility I want you to be aware of as we do encounter it here as well.

      Its kind of like having a roof leak and even though you had it fixed you keep looking up at the ceiling for months to come.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. LOL. You are absolutely correct in that I am certainly listening much more to any noise, and it’s quite possible that it might have been there before the recent repairs. I’m almost paranoid by now, because I want my car to be in perfect condition. I just love my Subaru. I’ll let you know what comes of it. Isn’t it fun?

        Cheers!

  395. My ’98 Subaru Legacy Outback (Manual) has 162,000 miles and needs it’s second head gasket replacement. The first mechanic I took it to said that the lower end was knocking (hard to detect, at a specific RPM) and that it is likely not to be long before the engine will wear out. He suggested I put some stop leak in the radiator and begin looking for a new car. As I have taken my car here for many years and this advice warranted no profit to the mechanic, I am inclined to take his advice.

    Reluctant to spend money, however, I sought a second opinion. This examination recommended “replacing headgaskets, all seals and all gaskets, timing belt, tensioner, waterpump, radiator, hose package, sep plate, resealing oil pan, replacing exhaust hangers” and added that the power steering pump seeps. Estimated repair cost reached $3500. They found no peculiar engine noises.

    This vehicle is not worth much as the oil has been leaking into the coolant (and elsewhere?) so fast that the oil was low enough to cause the car to overheat just a couple of weeks after an oil change. On top of that, most panels in the car have some small dent.

    As I don’t want to spend much money to fix it and have a lot of free time, is it feasible for a novice to do this job on their own with a Hayne’s guide and a little internet help?

    According to the above site, I don’t need any more special tools than a torque wrench, torque angle meter, a 14mm 12point socket, and possibly to get some warped pistons milled.

    I don’t feel like the car will really lose much value if the engine is in the trunk right now and I don’t feel I have much to lose (although the vehicle is still currently running). Is it possible for a mechanically minded person with absolutely no engine experience pull this off, or would it certainly be a waste of time and effort?

    Thanks so much! I’m amazed at your dedication to answer so many questions. As someone in the Seattle area, I’m sure to send future business your way!

    1. Hello Kevin

      We sell a HG kit and offer a repair guide and tech support if you buy from us. I would Run away from Haynes and there is no such thing as milling pistons? Did you mean the heads?

      We have helped Hundreds do this themselves its really up to you and your skill set if you can pull it off. Go to our parts tab and fill out the request form at the bottom and Ken will get back to you with prices.

      There are a few other items you need to do the job correctly but many of these items are fairly inexpensive and readily available.

      So to Answer your question, yes you can, yes it may be difficult and you may make a mistake hear and there but you will most likely get through it over the course of 2 weekends or so.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  396. Hello Justin,
    I am considering purchasing a 1998 Impreza L, with a 2.2 liter engine. Your website stated that included in the second group of problem engines was the “Impreza from mid year 1998”. The date of production for this vehicle, which was given to me by SOA, was 8/22/1997.

    Is this date considered a “mid year production” of a
    1998 Impreza 2.2L? In other words is this a 2nd generation 2.2 engine with an increased likelihood of head gasket repairs…or is it first generation?

    I am praying that it is an early production, and I will be buying my first Subaru.

    Thank you again for your time.
    Sincerely,
    John

    1. Most likely the 1998 is a First gen 2.2l. A Subaru guy can verify this by popping the hood and looking at the engine.

      Its very obvious if its a first or second gen.

      Justin

  397. I justin,

    I am in panic, i have a 2006 subaru legacy 2.0 and a few weeks ago starts blowing cold air to the inside a thought that was a air conditioning problem,some kind of electrical problem but now my mechanic said that something was wrong with the water pump our with the thermstat..
    the car never overheat..actually he said that it was always to cold..
    could be the head gasket?

    Many thanks

    1. It could be many things, I wouldnt suspect HG as the initial issue but if its allowed to continue it will damage the Hg, it could be an air pocket from low coolant, a Thermostat or cooling fan issue. It needs to be diagnosed, which is straight forward for any Technician familiar witha Subaru.

      Justin

  398. I need your advice please!!! My wife has wanted a Subaru for a year and we our about to pull the trigger on one Thursday. 2010 2.5x Forester Premium but has 103k, just came off a lease. Lease company shows all regular maintenance done nothing major. (were getting it at a great price) From reading the forums Im now worried, does the 2010 Forester have the updated gasket? What should I be looking for? I know the timing belt will need replacing ASAP, i’m planning on buying the timing belt kit from you, what else should I replace while they are doing that? Last question do you know any Subaru mechanics in Kansas City area? Thank You!!!!!

  399. Hello,

    I own a 98 outback wagon, which has 187,000+ miles on it. Bought it used in ’02 and had to replace the engine a couple years later. It’s been a great car and has suited my needs quite well and needed minimal repairs over the last 10 years. Well…it just had the radiator replaced because of overheating issues last week, a new thermostat was put in as well, drove it home and now a 3 days later, it overheated again. I took it back to my guys at the shop and it was confirmed a head-gasket.
    My husband and I cannot afford another car right now but the repair cost seems pretty steep too. What to do? Should we keep my car, drop the $ for repairs or move on? I love my Subi, but I’m ready to say good-bye if need be. What’s your suggestion?
    Thanks!

    1. Leah,

      If you don’t want to spend 5 figures on another car than repairs are your only option.

      If you spend $2500.00 on this car and keep it for 100,000 miles it will cost .03 cents a mile. If you spend 20k on a car it will cost 20 cents a mile over 100,000 miles.

      If you read enough of my posts, I always suggest keeping what you have if it suits your needs, the decision to move on if it does is based on emotions only and is always a costly one.

      Justin

  400. Hello Justin,
    I only have 24 hours in my day…you must have more than the rest of us….your site is amazing.

    I have always wanted a Subaru, but felt I could not afford one but I am now considering one. I have just scrolled through all 1624 postings on the “head gasket” issue and read most of them. I am now afraid to purchase the 1997 Impreza Outback Sport Wagon I was looking at. It does have a 2.2L engine, however I cannot figure out if it has the SOHC or the DOHC which you prefer. I have the VIN however you told “Blair” in your answer to her July 24, 2009 post, that she needed the date of production to determine SOHC v. DOHC. I have been all over the web including the Subaru website, and I cannot find this info. I did search the VIN and found that it was a 2.2L H4 EFI.

    This 1997 Impreza Wagon, 2.2L, has only 80 thousand miles and looks like a brand new car. It has been undercoated and seems rust free and solid everywhere.

    I intend to have the closest Subaru dealer look it over, however having read one of the posts where one of your readers stated the “dealer thought the thermostat was put in wrong” worries me. Isn’t that a simple question as to whether it was installed properly?

    So my questions are….
    1) What information should a dealer be providing with a “used subaru inspection”…so I am confident they gave it a good look.
    2) How do I find this “production date”?
    3) Is the presence of a SOHC a deal breaker compared to the more optimal DOHC?
    4) I assume a 1997, 2.2L will be a first generation engine….and therefore I will be less likely to be discussing head gasket problems in the future.
    5) Heiko Grund posted on 2/2/12 on your site that he has had no problems with head gaskets….do you surmise that is due to his superior and faithful maintenance?
    6) Heiko also mentioned low octane gas….is that an issue, and what should be put in this engine?
    7) Both the DOHC and the SOHC from 1997 are non-interference engines?
    Thank you so much for your time.
    Sincerely,
    John

    1. Hi Justin,
      One additional question. Do you have an idea of the percentage of vehicles that encounter these problems for both the 2.5L and the 2.2 liter? Could it simply look as though it is a big problem because naturally we are going to hear from the owners with problems.
      Whereas many happy owners would have no need to be searching these help forums.
      Thanks again.
      John

    2. Hello John,

      The 1997 2.2l in the Impreza is an Interference engine, many don’t understand that When Subaru went to Mechanical lash adjusters in the 2.2l the engine also became an interference engine as well.

      All 2.5 are interference engines.

      A 1997 Impreza with the 2.2l is a great way to go especially if the mileage is accurate. This is subject to any inspection however. The idea of a 1997 Impreza is great but that doesn’t mean that the car in question is a good buy.

      In other parts of the world gasoline has a much higher octane than what is offered in the US. There isn’t much you can do about it its political and very hard to understand.

      Justin

  401. Justin: Thanks for the wealth of information in these threads!

    I am in need of a head gasket replacement on my ’03 GT. Car was built in June ’02, so a very early ’03. Car currently has 160K on it. Cooling system has been maintained to the letter of the owners manual, always by my Subaru dealer.

    Here is my dilemma: the gaskets have leaked for quite a while, both oil and coolant externally. I have not noticed an internal leak (yet), and I have never had an overheating issue. Biggest issue is that I have to put a quart of oil in every 1,500 miles, and top off the coolant occasionally. Plus, the burning coolant smell kinda stinks up the garage when I shut it off. I really do not want to put the $ into the car to do the head gaskets, but I do not want to do anything that will cause more damage down the road. I live in N.Y., so 9 years of salty roads have ensured that every single bolt under the hood will be impossible to get off without breaking. I fear the cost of the job do to this.

    Am I playing with fire here?

  402. I bought a Forrester in 2010 and was told they put a new Head Gasket on it. Now at 136,000 I am having a new HeadGasket put on it. I was advised that rarely, but sometimes after having it replaced sometimes the rear of the engine will go. Am I making a mistake getting the new Head Gasket instead of trading the car? I am not sure the garage actually out a new one it the first time.

    Sandy

  403. I bought a Forrester in 2010 and was told they put a new Head Gasket on it. Now at 136,000 I am having a new HeadGasket put on it. I was advised that rarely, but sometimes after having it replaced sometimes the rear of the engine will go. Am I making a mistake getting the new Head Gasket instead of trading the car? I am not sure the garage actually out a new one it the first time.

    1. The “lower end” doesn’t typically fail on a Subaru after HG replacement.

      As far as trade it in? If your conscious allows you to Stick it to some one else, or take a huge loss on your investment buy trading it in and being honest about it needs and you don’t like the car than go for it. If the car suits your needs you will spend less repairing it than on the depreciation the first day on what ever you buy to replace it with.

      Justin

  404. I am hoping for some advice, I have a 2004 outback and had the coolant leak and head gasket failure around 100,000 miles. After fixing that, I am now close to 200,000 miles as I’ve been told I have an oil leak due to another cracked head gasket. I have also noticed an exhaust smell coming into the car. This is my first Subaru so I am unsure if this is normal and we drive a lot so I’ve only gotten about 3-4 years since the last head gasket repair. In your opinion, should I even consider repairing the head gasket again or just look at replacing. Thanks for any advice/insight you can provide.

    1. Hello Jaclyn,

      If you read enough of my posts you will see that financially it is always cheaper to maintain or repair what you already own VS buying another vehicle. This advice only works if the Car still suits your needs.

      Justin

  405. I join the club today!! “Cool”?
    Impreza RS2.5 2005, 117k km.
    HG to replace for 1500$ CAN.
    I did last my battery for 6.5 years, which apparently adds to the gasket corrosion.

  406. Justin,

    I own a 1998 Subaru Forester with head gasket failure this past summer. We had the gaskets replaced along with the timing belt. Since then, the car has been in and out of the shop with the same type problem: coolant does not flow from the overflow tank back into the radiator. At this time, the thermostat has been changed, the sensor replaced, a hose on the radiator with a pinhole replaced, the radiator cap replaced twice, the tube from the overflow tank to the radiator replaced and we still get the full overflow tank and little coolant remaining in the radiator.

    We live in a mountainous area and first discovered the HG problem when the car overheated intermittently when we were driving through car lots at low speed in 90+ temperatures. One indication that the problem was not fixed (even after the HG were replaced) was when I drove the car to work–33 miles–and stopped at the post office for mail. A hesitation when backing up to leave the PO parking lot was the sign.

    The mechanic is stumped and he’s been a Subaru guy for years. Do you have any suggestions? The car has 190,000 miles and we love it, but have run out of money.

    Thanks, Dawn

  407. Justin,

    What a wealth of information. I have a 99 Forester and love it. My question concerns my friend’s 99 Outback. He recently had some overheating issues heading up the mountain to go skiing. When they pulled it into the shop the mechanic reported that coolant was coming out of the exhaust. I do not have much experience with the subby motor, and wanted to know your thoughts on head gasket only vs warped heads/block. With this motor, is it possible to diagnose warpage from a leak down and compression test? Also, is it normal to need to deck the heads on a Subaru? Sorry if this seems out of place my other favorite vehicle is prone to block issues, so I may see that everywhere when it isn’t the case here.

    Thanks again for a great site,

    MMM

  408. I have a 1998 Forester that is intermitantly overheating. Had 2 mechanics check for head gasket leak. No exhaust gas from blue liquid test. No coolant in cylinders after pressure test for 2 days. Mechanic does not think it is a headgasket, but can not definately tell me what is causeing overheating. Wants to test radiator and exhaust back pressure next.Is mechanic wasting my money with more tests? Is there any other tests that can determin if it’s a headgasket problem?

    1. Steve,

      The vehicle needs to be tested with a Exhaust gas analyzer looking for signs of exhaust in the cooling system under the same type of situation when it is overheating, engine at full temp and under load, unless it is tested this way they aren’t going to find intermittent overheating. The Blue fluid/ block check is a huge waste of time.

      Justin

  409. Hello all,
    I came across this page researching someone elses suggestion of “googling” the 2000 Subaru HG issue. I’m currently shopping for a 2000-02 Outback sedan limited (apparently with the flat 6 from what I read). I’m a proud and happy owner of a 2011 STi Limited sedan and after 18,800 miles and an SCCA Autocross B stock championship later (tracking the car) all I’ve had to do is change oil and tires. I find this car much cheaper to maintain than the $9,500 engine replacement for my Porsche after the intermediate shaft bearing went out (also a well documented issue with a lot of people crying for factory support). If head gasket issues are the most of my worries, I’m hooked on Subies for LIFE!

  410. Hi thank you for the great site
    I do realize if the repair is done properly the car can last for 300,000 miles .

    but In general which type of engine and model year would be the lowest chance of head gasket problem?

    thank you again

    I own a 2004 forester with 260,000 kms
    it’s got head gasket repaired at 66,000 kms

    1. The turbo models and H6 engines use a MLS gasket less prone to failure. The wash out factor however is that both of these cars cost more to buy and have higher maintenance costs that off set the possibility of a head gasket expense.

      Justin

      1. I know I should not focus too much to HG. I thought I would like to know your opinions.

        How about if I want strictly a flat four.
        Do you have a model year or engine code that you deemed less prone to HG issues?

  411. A Tale of two Subarus.

    Justin, thank you for the wealth of information. Your site is a good reflection on your business.
    We live 100 miles North of you, and have a 2000 Legacy w 133k trouble free miles.
    By coincidence we have neighbors up the street that are also friends who have the SAME car, both purchased new withing weeks of each other in Summer of 2000.
    Our friends’ Legacy has 122k miles and has a pronounced external HGL on both sides with attendant oil leaks.
    Ours is marvelously oil and coolant tight. No leaks, clean and tight. Coolant catch tank is clean.
    Otherwise the two cars seem to be reciprocal of each other, mostly due to different maintenance ‘styles’.
    Although both cars are garaged, ours carries our dogs and the inside, well looks a bit like a ‘dog house’.
    Theirs is spotless inside. Open the hoods and you see a big difference. I perform all oil and filter changes. I wash the engine down AT LEAST every 3.5k oil change. The engine compartment and battery area look like they belong in the Navy, on a nuclear sub.
    I had the Suby coolant conditioner added per their recall in 2003 or so. Coolant was once again replaced at time of WP change at 100k. I recently replaced the coolant a third time (drain and re-fill) and added the blue bottle of Suby recommended gunk at that time.
    Their engine compartment looks like, a Wolverine lives in it. Their battery compartment looks like it has gone through a snow storm.
    Both cars received their scheduled T’belt change at around 100k. I had ours done by the dealer’s shop and observed part of the re assembly. I elected to have them change the WP, tensioner, cam and crank seals at the same time.
    Theirs was done by a local shop less than 4000 miles before they first noticed the “green puddle” on their garage floor. All agree that it is a shame their leak was not noticed at time of belt change.(or perhaps it wasn’t noticeable yet.)
    So much for history, now to my question:
    We are happy with our car and would like to keep it another 100k miles.
    Is it possible or likely that we will be SPARED the Head Gasket Replacement?
    Or is the clock ticking on a time bomb?
    Thanks for your advice on this issue. Keep up the great work.
    Oh, and I couldn’t agree more with your policy of engine removal to replace the HG. I’ve changed a few dozen head gaskets on aircraft, auto, and motorcycle engines. I can’t imagine keeping the surfaces clean and dry in the short interval between head installation and torque up, with the sealing surfaces vertical.
    That one issue alone would go a long way to determining who I would chose to perform this repair.
    Thank you,
    ~Ric

    1. You may not have to make repairs, we have several SOHC 2.5l customers out there that have not had to make the repair and some with 200k and counting, typically this is because of the use, fuel used and maintenance aspects. We make lots of repairs on cars with 60k as well on the exact opposite side of the spectrum.

      I will add that even if you had to have the repair done, by the sounds of it you would get good value and many more miles out of the car as well.

      Justin

  412. Justin,

    I have a question about our 2011 Outback 2.5i Premium. We’ve had it for 15 months (original owner w/ 16K miles) and have added approximately a half quart of the Subaru Super Blue coolant to the overfill container in that time and just noticed the level is about a 1/2″ under the full line. No sign of coolant leaking under the vehicle nor any residue in the overfill container. Is this typical?

    Thanks for the help…. again.

  413. Hi Justin,

    I found your site after an unhappy trip to a mechanic with my 2004 Outback H6 3.0 (78,000 miles), when I was looking for more information/advice. I have to say, you’re doing a real service for Subaru drivers, and I only wish I lived in Seattle instead of Australia!

    I’m wondering what signs I should be looking for if a cylinder head gasket is on the verge of failure, or if there are any test results that would demonstrate to me exactly what is failing and how badly (a friend suggested a compression test, for example). The reason is that I brought the car in for a normal servicing and was told to immediately make an appointment to have my engine lifted out and the cylinder head gasket replaced, while the shop sent the cylinders out to an engineering firm to be planed flat… and that this would be a week-long process. This diagnosis was based on a note that a different mechanic had left on my service record 6 months ago that just said “leaky cylinder head?”. Nothing further was indicated, and it wasn’t mentioned to me when I picked up the car.

    So I was pretty suspicious when the new mechanic pushed a very expensive and lengthy repair job on this basis alone, without having looked at the car himself or done any tests. The car never overheats or behaves oddly while driving, and there are never any signs of oil or coolant leakage underneath after being parked for a long time. Is there a test that can prove there’s a problem with the gasket? And if the gasket is shot, is it always necessary to machine the cylinder heads flat rather than simply replace the gasket?

    Thanks for any advice you might have on the subject. At the moment I feel like an uninformed consumer…

    Cheers-
    Andrew

    1. The 2004 H6 doesn’t have that many HG issues, but I have seen some external coolant seeping, and a few with internal failures. The tests for external leaks is a visual one, and internal done with a gas analyzer looking for signs of combustion chamber gasses in the cooling system.

      Heads should be machined flat if they are warped or if unable to obtain a good sealing surface(50RA) with the aide of a cylinder head resurfacing machine

      Justin

  414. Justin,

    I own a 2010 Subaru Forester 2.5X, 39,000 miles.
    I have recently moved from Las Vegas (warm climate) to Colorado (cold climate), and am wondering about my coolant/antifreeze. The temperatures in CO get into the teens at night, and I don’t want my fluids to freeze. Is there a different type of coolant/antifreeze that I should put in my radiator? If so, can I mix it with what the factory put in there? Also what would be the going price for having that done? Are there any other things that I need to worry about in this colder climate?

    1. As long as you have a 50/50 mix of Antifreeze and water you will be fine to those temperatures. You will need to worry about washer fluid anti freeze and tire pressure more so than in Nevada.

      Justin

  415. Hi everyone, we are using Subaru Impreza´s since 1993 in Rally GrA, GrN, WRC, Rallycross and racing. in all the years we never experient any headgasket failier… If something gose wrong then either with the Pistons, Conrods or bearings…. BUT…no complain even for our GrN engines where we are forced to use mostly only OE parts, as even this engines have more than double the torque of a standart engine. Not even mentioning the GrA, WRC…or the “worse” the Rallycross engines which have up2 700HP and arround 850Nm…..but even in this engines we used in the early years standart multilayer gaskets and allready above 500HP and 650Nm…. and dont forget, this engines are highcompression engines like 1:10,5 plus 2,6bar boost from the turbo! well, they have waterinjections to manage that high temperatures created by the high compression from the turbo and in the engine it self. running on 35-50°C !! intake temperature…
    But never ever a gasket problem !!
    Even our “workshop bitches”…Subaru Imprezas our stuff is using on the road every day, running more than 300.000km+ and just changing filters, plugs, belts, oil…d normal service stuff….non of this cars, and we are talking about like 10-12 cars…non of them ever had a headgasket problem !
    one thing to mention…they are all 2ltr engines ! We never use 2,5ltr as the higher masses to move in this engines are more a disadvantage then a better performance. A 2ltr engine is easy on the performance of a 2,5ltr with very little tricks…i am talking about the roadcars…
    But anyway…so let the logic talk…when i read some reports up here…mostly 2,5ltr engines, low octan fuel ( belowe 90oct…?!?!?!), short trip user….how you can even run a Subaru on 87oct if the min required oct is 95…what is this “juice” of 87oct made for ??? do you have russian armytrucks over there using that ?? 😉
    anyway…
    well, one of the facts above most be involved, as i dont remember complains like that from any German Subaru dealer….we have a breakdown statistic in Germany from ADAC… the most reliable cars on position one and two are Subaru and Toyota….!!! Subaru just got another award, praysing the service of the Subaru dealer etc…the high quality of Subaru is easy to explain if you know the history of Fuji Heavy Industrie….light aircraft engines they make…double quality standarts for aircrafts…that is what we are talking about… as this engines were the base for the light aluminium high reliable flat boxer engines !!!
    So maybe there is another reason for all your failers just as Justin Stobb is trying to explain why your gaskets fail again after repair…they quality of the repair must be on the lowest standarts ! Replacing a HG in the car….what kind of nonsens is that when the engine is out in less than 30min…how do they do #1 the cleaning of the surface, propper inspection incl cracktests and #2 how they do the exact torque of the cylinderhead bolts ? On all our engines, even the highperformance ones we still use the standarts like 19Nm-69Nm, than loose 180°..bolt 1+2 (center) 34Nm and 3-6 19Nm…than all 90°+90°,,, we never failed with that !
    the engine we build right now is number 428 !,….speaks for it self i would say….
    but now you tell me how you do that 100% when the engine is not out of the car with the limited space….rediciuless !!! I would ref such standarts to african levels !!!
    I will fire the mechanic just on the spot ! And changing only one gasket when the engine is out is another nonsens… why i wast the opportunety just to check/inspect also the other side when water is out, belt is of etc….
    however…i support Justin Stobb to the fullest here, as he is trying is best without loosing it on his high standarts trying to explain to mostly total amateurs in this industry….respect for that !
    One tip for the short trip “snailing” drivers….no engine on earth can take this for long…condense water in the engine going every where leads to corrision too, carbon will build up in combustion chambers, valves, exhaustchannels and so on.,,,and if you dont “burn” your engine free once in a wile by sending it over the Highway / freeway…what ever you call it over there…u will always face engine problems earlier or later…this will clean up the combustion chamber, valves, intake/exhaust channels, colling system, exhaust ….just every thing, If you crowl permanently with your car and never reach the recomended working temperature of the engine…every thing will “close up” …perfomance will go down…engine parts will fail….and so on.
    anyway…let me say sorry for my bad english….i am a German, so please excuse my mistakes….
    and please be proud of your car, as it is one of the most advanced cars with hes reliable AWD sytem no other car can compete with in combination with the low mass gravitation point and very advanced weight balance, both becouse of this little genius flat light engine there in front what you are complaining so much about…..keep in mind…Subaru is not for nothing so successfull in motorsport !! it has a reason !!
    enjoy your ride….

    Heiko Grund
    Grund Motorsport

  416. I do have a leaking head gasket which I will have replaced b/c my Subaru has 194,000, and some change, miles on it. However, this is not the problem I’d like you to help me with. I do not know if it is okay to ask about another problem I am experiencing, but here goes.

    My car began vibrating about a year ago. (Dec 2010) I have had Subaru look at it 4 times and another independent mechanic look at it too, bringing me up to last week, Jan. 28, 2012. He looked it over. The independent mechanic looked at engine and transition mounts. He felt they looked good. He and Subaru basically said my car was “old.” Independent guy said Subarus have a tendency to vibrate more than some other cars. I have not noticed this prior to this issue.

    Back to the vibration problem which no one seems to be able to diagnose. What I have discovered is when I come to a stop; the car is in gear (drive or reverse) and I have my foot on the brake, the car vibrates. If I put the car in neutral or park, the vibration stops.

    I would like to sell my car b/c I drive many miles over the course of a week and need a car with higher gas mileage. You know, gas is getting expensive. I don’t want to sell it with this problem. Or at least with a problem I can’t explain.

    What could be some possible causes of this problem? Any help you can give is greatly appreciated.

    Thank you. Carol

  417. First, let me congradulate you on an excellent site. Your information makes good scientific sense. I don’t own a Subaru. I drive a BMW and I have seen some of the same issues with the engine coolant.

    I plan to purchase a Subaru and I would be interested in your advice. I was told the new model Impreza and Forester have the engines with a metal timing chain but the Outback has a rubber belt.

    Any advice on the new engine designs for the head gasket problems and other repair problems you mention on your site?

    Any help for my Subaru buying decision would be helpful. Thank you.

    1. Hi Ron,

      Thanks for the Feedback.

      I feel that the 2.0l DOHC should be relatively immune from the Head gasket issue due to a larger surface area around the cylinder liners. I do however want to point out that it is just to early to tell and would feel it irresponsible to not point that out.

      The 2010 to current 2.5l in the Outback and legacy utilize a semi closed deck block and MLS gasket that should be ok, and so far so good.

      Hope that helps.

      Justin

  418. Hello Justin,

    I came across ur website while researching head gasket problems on Subarus. I recently have been looking at buying a car, one of the choices I had in mind was a 2001 Liberty (Legacy) B4 Twin Turbo.

    I almost bought one, until I got it inspected by a Subaru specialist. The pre purchase inspection raised a few more issues than I had hoped and I subsequently turned the car down. Included in the list of problems was: Leaking HG’s both left and right, Crankshaft Oil Seal Leak, tiny leak from left hand side turbo and also compression was down 15-20psi on 2 cylinders compared with the other 2. These issues raised too many questions and unknowns about the car and now I’m a bit wary about buying Subaru.

    I was told by Subaru specialists that the leaks were quite common and nothing to worry about. However for me the leaking turbo and compression issues were enough for me to walk away. The car had also had bit of performance work done to it: CAI, TMIC, ECU tune and Exhaust all making about 256hp atw. It had also traveled just over 100,000 km’s (62,000 miles). The car had only been serviced strictly at a Subaru dealer and oil changes done every 5000km.

    What is ur opinion on this example and on B4’s TT’s in general? I’m really fond of these cars and the mix of power and luxury that they possess. I’m just a bit worried about long term reliability (esp. being TT) and extracting more power in the long run. I was hoping to buy a car that wouldn’t need any money spent on it, let alone expensive problems that could lead to more serious problems later! Should I still look at the Twin Turbo B4’s or go something a bit more tried and true (such an an Evo?). Ur opinion and any light u could shed on the situation would be greatly appreciated!

    1. Any performance car is going to suffer in terms of longevity, they just don’t belong in the same sentence. Because it has been modified that statement is amplified, I think if you found an apples to apples comparison without modifications the car would be in better shape.

      You will spend more and should expect to in a turbo car VS a NA one. I dont know enough about the cars in your part of the world to tell you if an evo is better than a Subaru, we dont even get the B4 TT in the US.

      Justin

  419. I have a 99 Outback with 203,000 miles. The head gasket appears to be leaking, as there are bubbles in the overflow reservoir when the car is running. My friend put in some product he purchased at the local parts store, which temporarely stopped the leak. and I was abble to drive 400 miles , but by the time I got home, the bubbles were forming again. I am willing to repair the gasket but wonder if other parts of the motor might be also near their limit. I have been deligent with oil changes. Not so much so with coolant flushing or battery maintenance, but not so bad either. I am the original owner. Is there a product I could try that might get me a few more thousand miles?

  420. I am looking at Subaru wagons 1995 – 2000’s thats all i can afford. I have a question on the Head Gasket problem .The car I am most Interesed in is a 2000 manual transmission with 75,951 miles on it… Will the Head Gasket Deffinately go and if so when.Will Subaru pick up the repair bill as a recall.I have been out of work with stage 4 cancer, they cut it all out, but I have more operations .So I was short on time for disability by three weeks I am a union Carpenter in NJ that should tell you how much I work.I try to do my best.I can not work at all until my colostomy bag is reversed and then 5 months of no work after that.I had to sell our new home to live off funds now twenty years of home ownership I rent fro a slum lord.Found Out he has not paid bank in 2 years so they are foreclosinf.
    Now I can hardley afford the car but weighed out the 9-10 mpg my K3500 crew cab truck gets to this car. Does anyone have more information on a contact to Subaru , I can not afford to buy a car that is going to need $2400.00 in repair.shecar is almost $5000.00 .I am also looking at a 1995 with 177,000 miles for $ 3000.00. Does the 1995-1996 have the same problem,it just seems the 1995 does not have the AWD that we want and we need a wagon.Please help me .I have no money , I have HOPE .I have the LOVE of my Family. I just need a car that is dependable.. Maybey a different car,Can anyone help me with a car, or just giove me the right information on this Subaru Gasket Problem.Thank you. Joseph kimconllc@gmail.com

  421. Hello –

    I have a 2001 Outback with the 3.0 H6. The other day my wife came home and steam was coming from under the hood. She said that the temp gauge had not climbed above normal, but when I opened the hood, the cap for the “overflow tank” had popped open and coolant had sprayed from there. After letting it cool, I opened the radiator cap and refilled what coolant had been lost. I then let the car run for ten minutes with no issues (no high temp or steam). Then this morning she called me after driving the car about ten miles saying the car was overheating. When I got there, I again checked under the hood and the “overflow tank” cap was popped off and coolant was everywhere. I again filled the radiator and let the car run. Again the temp didn’t rise into the “High” so I started to drive it home. I hadn’t gotten far when the temp rose, but dropped again when I let off the throttle. I drove a little farther and the temp peaked, so pulled off the road.

    It seems as if there is extreme pressure building, but not at idle. Could this be a thermostat issue, water pump or am I looking at a head gasket issue? I haven’t heard of problems with the 3.0.

    1. It could be the Thermostat or the head gasket, if the thermostat is failing to open the lower radiator hose will stay cool to the touch, if its hot then the t-stat is opening.

      Start there.

      Justin

      1. Thanks. So, does the water pump pump the coolant through the radiator first (from bottom up), or does it pump through the engine from the bottom of the radiator (from bottom of radiator, through engine, then to top of radiator)? I ask because I was wondering if a blocked radiator could cause excessive pressure at the top of the radiator, thus blowing off the “overflow” cap.

        Kevin

        1. Kevin,

          The modern Subaru uses a reverse flow cooling system, the coolant is pulled from the block behind the water pump and pumped up through the radiator.

          A clogged radiator is one of many possibilities, to know whats wrong it needs an evaluation.

          Anything else is just a “could be”

          Justin

        1. Kevin,

          You really need to call shops around you if you don’t already have a relationship established with a Subaru shop.

          We would work up an estimate based on an inspection and try to determine the level of repair hat fits the car, your budget and expectations, this may involve other items such as the timing components, water pump, hoses etc also my labor charge and parts price may differ from your region. Thats why I don’t like to give any one a price.

          Justin

  422. Justin-

    Thank you for the article, I have been all over the internet trying to determine if I want to become a 2001 Subaru Outback owner and this article is giving me some hope. The car I am interested in is 2001 outback wagon LL Bean edition, so it has the 3.0L engine instead of the 2.5L. I see no mention of this engine in your article, so was it not affected by the head gasket problems?

    Is there anything specific I should look at when I go for a test drive this weekend? I now wish I lived in Seattle, so I could test drive it straight to you:)

  423. Hi Justin,
    I am looking into buying a 2004 2.5RS Impreza with about 140,000km. I got it checked out by a mechanic who mentioned that it is leaking some, but minimal, oil around the head gasket. Everything else about the car checks out. Would you consider the leak a deal breaker for buying this car?
    Thanks!
    Jane

    1. Thats tough,

      If you buy the car and know going into it the head gasket may some day leak oil enough or coolant to warrant a repair and your ok with that being the most likely only major thing you will deal with then I say do it.

      If you cant handle the mental or financial part of a potential head gasket repair then dont.

      Because I work in the industry and realize that any car can and will need repairs and have a good understanding of how the Subaru compares to other cars in its class to me its a no brainer to buy one. But understand what your buying. The best AWD system, a very safe and reliable car that will take care of you in an accident and will get you where your going and back, oil leaks and all. However at some point the very thing that makes a Subaru safe, reliable and the drives the design of symmetrical AWD system which is the Horizontally opposed engine may require some new gaskets.

      The good news is that the Guy that owns the Audi down the street spent more repairing his cars front end at 60k than you will at 100k replacing your head gaskets the front end is a safe y issue the head gaskets a external fluid leak.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  424. 2007 Legacy Limited – 2.5 non turbo with 74,000 miles. Strong gasoline odor at startup and slight oil burning smell when warm. Looked like some oil has dripped near the manifold, perhaps explaining the oil smell. No overheating issues and no drips on the driveway.

    Dealer says it’s head gasket. It’s covered under my extended warranty, but I’m now very concerned about the longevity of the vehicle and what could have caused this gasket to fail.

    What questions should I ask? What else should I look for that could fail?

    This car has been lightly used by my wife and I’ve maintained fluids and fluid changes. I feel shortchanged as I wanted to keep this car for 150k or more…now thinking I might want to get out of it.

    Any direction about what I should be asking my dealer is appreciated. Reading all the potential problems after a gasket failure has me concerned.

    Kind thanks!

    1. Hello TYPO?,

      You have a small external fluid leak, its really not a reliability issue as I am sure you drove it to the service department.

      The oil leak from the head gasket is the primary thing you will deal with with a 2007 Subaru 2.5l NA engine.

      If an oil leak causes you to not want to keep a car then I guess you should sell it buy something else and sell it when it has a problem as well, as I promise you every car will. I want to put forth the following statement. Google any manufacture with the terms “problems” after that car maker, everyone hates their car as soon as it needs repairs period. I have read forums where it was the greatest car in the world and then a few years later the biggest POS to ever grace the streets.

      Our shop sits next to a multi line Dealership our Techs have friends that work there nd other shops as well, we hear all the stories about what car has what issue. Some come $500.00 a time some once for $2000.00, some cars hold up differently than others when used in a certain way and some don’t perform as well under the exact same set of circumstances. For every “Toyota is the Chuck Noris” of the Auto world I have had to absorb from readers and local customers I can point to a Toyota owner that feels they have had their car in for warranty and paid repairs, to often somewhere online.

      You paid extra for a warranty and that warranty is going to pay off this time, an extended warranty is a “bet” you bet you were going to need it and the warranty provider bet you wouldn’t, you won!

      Id like to suggest you have it repaired and see how you feel a few months down the road when the emotional part of this has subsided. If thats not possible than I do strongly suggest you buy an extended warranty with what ever else you decide to buy as well.

      I see no reason why you cant keep it for another 5 years and keep your money in you bank account or not pay out 40k over the next 5 to 7 years to be faced with the real possibility of a similar situation except you have spent 40k to get there.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Wow — thank you for the thoughtful and speedy reply. Your insight leads me to be more patient before making a decision about what to do with the Legacy. I guess I was jilted as I just traded another 2005 brand car with loads more miles and harder driving and never had a problem. I just haven’t heard of people having head gasket problems any more.

        Can you offer any thoughts on what I should ask my dealer? Or what I should be looking for in relation to this — other problems before my warranty expires?

        Wish you guys were near — I think we’re a half nation or two apart, as I’m in West Virginia.

        Thanks again for your thoughtful and thorough responses.

  425. hi i been reading your site for a while and it helped me alot thank you.now i have a 03 legacy 130,000 miles for 6 months now i dont know the history on this car but i just notice that small external coolant leak.i dont really have the money to replace the HG.do you think a sealer would help me?any brand that you know for sealer that would work best for this case? thank you

    1. I dont suggest any sealer, it does more harm then good, if you must try something you can use the Subaru conditioner but its only a temporary solution and the car should only be used locally until repaired correctly.

      Justin

  426. Thank you, for your very informative blog. Your HG suggestions and technical advice have been invaluable now that I am dealing with SOA.
    I have an 04′ OBW, non-turbo, with 74K mi. I live in SoCal and the car has had an easy life. At @65K I was informed of leakage from both HG, but worse from the left side. Recently, while under service I was informed of the now more advanced state of leakage. No overheating, no worrying oil level loss, but definite presence of oil on the undercarriage.
    Because of your suggestion to contact SOA regarding their possible coverage of the issue, I have arrived at an offer from them to reimburse me $1000- for the repairs to be done… at a dealership. They do not consider it a warranty repair.
    Unfortunately, my experiences with local dealerships have been BAD. I use a local certified shop for all my repairs. SOA has not definatively ruled out my using the Indie shop, so I still hold a little hope.
    Your explaination of the ‘cheaper, quicker’ repair methods, employed by the dealerships, has me a bit wary of the outcome. Is it resonable to request that they remove the engine to resurface the block (and heads)?. Also, would they, by default, use all Subaru parts?. Anything else I should be aware of, or request upon having the work done?.

    Thanks again for everyone’s help/info. Kinda makes me wish I lived in Seattle, so I could have AWD do my repair work – except for the SNOW! lol :). -Jason

    1. We have had some customers have us make the repairs and be reimbursed by Subaru in some part. Its all about the Negotiation with the customer service agent from Subaru, I will tell you that most of the time the car has to go to a Subaru dealer for warranty work as per the Franchise agreement with Subaru and the Subaru authorized Dealership.

      It would kind of like McDonald’s paying for your lunch at Burger King. But sometimes that does happen.

      Justin

  427. Justin,

    Have you heard anything about front end vibration on the 2011 or 2012 Outbacks causing the steering wheel to shimmy, excessively at times? I spoke with a guy from Georgia that claims a dealer down there bought his 2011 H6 back because of such a problem that they were not able to resolve. We have a 2011 2.5i Premium and have had no such issue and just love the car. Just curious in the event there is an issue out there and we end up experiencing it.

    Jon

    1. Hello Jon,

      I have a 2012 and no issues we have several customers that have the 2010 to 2012 Outbacks and no issues. I have read a few posts here and there about it, and am aware of a 60 page TSB ( Technical Service Bulletin) that is flat out silly that addresses the issue.. The real issue is component alignment and due to the Flat rate pay system at the Dealerships no Technician is going to sign up for the repairs, the cars are bought back resold to someone else not as critical.

      Justin

  428. I recently test drove a 2012 Forester. My wife and I loved the vehicle and are seriously considering a purchase. Should we be concerned about the Head Gasket issue on new Foresters. What do you think of (new model) Foresters in general.

    Thanks,

    JW

    1. Hi Johnny,

      The 2012 has a new Engine configuration that should lend it self to longer service intervals but I just cant responsibly tell you it wont have any head gasket issue. I will add that I have followed the changes made very closely and feel that everything has moved in the right direction.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  429. my boy has a 99 legacy with the 2.5 engine and it’s in the shop. the guy at the shop wants to install a sohc engine instead of a HG replacement. says it will last longer. comments?
    thanks,
    Jeff

    1. In 1999 Only the Legacy Outback and Legacy GT have the 2.5l.

      The proposed plan is flat out silly. The Dohc properly repaired will never have a second failure with the Updated HG.

      Justin

      1. I am so grateful for this posting.

        I would like to know the year you refer to for “updated HG”. My 2001 Forester’s HGs were replaced in 2003 under the recall at the dealership. Would this be considered “updated HG”? The car now has 181K miles and sometimes I smell burnt oil while driving with the fresh air vents. Thank you.

  430. I have an ’03 Forester 2.5XS with 135K. Dealer told me I need HG replacement (w/belts) at $2400. Would bring it to you all, but that would require a cross-country trip as I live in Washington, DC.

    Trying to decide if I should do the repair or trade-in the car.

    With 135K miles what other types of major repairs should I expect to be making in the next year or so?

    Thank you!

  431. Justin,

    I have a 1998 Subaru Legacy GT Limited. So it has the DOHC 2.5. It has ~134,000 miles on it. I had a complete timing belt job done, oil pump reseal, valve cover gaskets, spark plugs, etc.. Big service (June, 2011). I actually had the timing belt done in November 2010 but the Subaru Dealership I went to totally hosed me and sent me out of the shop with only a new timing belt when my cam seals were leaking and the timing belt components making noise. This is 1 of 2 cars I have and I drive this one the least. It sat for about a week and when I started it the car sounded like this… https://youtu.be/4XUVTUknO0Y so I shut it off immediately and I didn’t do anything with it. Then a couple weeks later I started it and it sounded like this… https://youtu.be/ahHVRjtsgMU. I’m completely baffled as to what is going on with it.. My shop told me it is most likely a lifter and on the drivers side since that is where the noise was coming from. There is always a ticking noise when I accelerate, probably from 1,000 RPM till 2,500 RPM. No exhaust leaks, I already had those fixed and had the heat shields fixed. I am just kind of wonder your opinion, I know it is hard to diagnois something just from a video but it is better than nothing! Basically I feel like I should do the lifter when the headgasket issue comes up that way they can do it all at once. How much would it cost to replace this lifter? How many are there total? And should I just do them all if they are in there?

    Thank you!

    Dan

  432. Hi Justin. I have partially answered my own question regarding the difference between 2010+ legacy ej253 and the 2011 impreza ej253. The legacy develops its HP/torque at 400 rpm lower. My question to you is how do they do that. Thanks Bryan

  433. everyone is talking about the failures in the newer scooby’s however I have a 1991 legacy, dont see any sign of head gasket failure but have replaced radiator, cap, hoses, water pump, dealer thermostat, and cant drive more than 5 miles without overheating. will idle for 25 plus minutes without overheating. I am open to any suggestions as I am at the end of my rope and finances with this thing. I used to love scoobys, I had many of the older 80’s model gl thought they were golden, but not liking so much anymore.

    1. Hi Sam,

      Without a Exhaust gas Analyzer observing weather or not there are Exhaust present in the Cooling system its really not possible to completely rule out a head gasket failure.

      Not sure how you can be upset about a 1991 (21 years old and its at the legal age to drink) Vehicle needing a repair, if your upset at already replacing items that didn’t fix it, that’s not the cars fault.

      Justin

  434. I have a 2004 subaru impreza ts (ugrades:cold air intake, headers, exhaust)has 168000kms(ontario,canada) on it just changed my valve cover gasket and spark tube gasket and timing belt/tensioner/idlers and water pump(cost:1300$) just found out i have a HG leak. Now to avoid future hassle with this HG problem do you suggest any aftermarket head gaskets or should i stick with OEM gasket also since they are going to be pulling the engine would you suggest anything else that should be done while its out? and upgrades i should do to increase life/milage/performance? i was thinking getting the clutch changed as well, and advise?

    1. Hello VIc,

      I wonder why the previous service was done then the HG? All of those repairs and maintenance could and should have done at the same time as the HG repair at a much lower cost.

      We use the a MLS gasket not offered by Subaru its made by SIx Star and sold to us by North East imported parts. You are much better off letting whomever is making the repairs supply the parts is much less complicated that way if something arises.

      Justin

  435. We just had the headgasket replaced in 98 outback, 110,000 miles. Now there is a noise about 20 miles after starting car upon acceleration. It sounds like the engine is straining–like you are accelerating fast, but the rpm’s are 2 to 2.5. Is this related to the headgasket? Does it sound like a bad repair job or something new?

    1. Hi Kay,

      Its just to difficult to comment on the noise, but if you dont think it was there I would at least try and get a coherent answer as to what is causing the noise it may be something new, something unrelated or something normal that was always there. One of the things we contend with is a driver that may be a little more sensitive to the car now that it just drained there pocket book, its normal, natural and expected. I would simply want to know what the noise is and if its an issue.

      Justin

  436. Justin
    Outstanding website you have. I’m doing the head gaskets on a 2000 Outback with the 2.5 engine and am going to order the gasket kit from your website. Is it standard procedure when you do head gaskets to send out the heads to be machined and checked for cracks? Also, is it a good idea to replace the valve seals and the front crank seal while it’s torn apart?

    Thanks……….Roger

    1. We check the heads for flat, if it overheated then its not a bad idea to have them pressure checked as well. Its not a bad idea to replace the front crank seal as well as reseal the oil pump, and replace the timing components and waterpump if they are due or close to due.

      Justin

      Im sorry if my information comes late.

  437. Hi Justin,

    I need some expertise, desperately!

    I have a 2006 Legacy GT Wagon, purchased new, which I love (my first was a 1990 Legacy Wagon). Factory service intervals were followed for the first 15 k miles and then degraded to only oil changes every 3 or 4 k due to some difficult personal circumstances.

    The vehicles duty for the last several years of its life was mainly short daily trips into town, 4 miles there, 20 minutes parked, and 4 miles back, with a handful of a few long distance trips (~ 500 mi). My incorrect thinking at the time was that this constituted “light duty” use and that therefore the factory recommended service intervals probably weren’t all that critical. I had that one totally backwards! After getting an internet education on the topic, it is clear that that kind of use constitutes the most severe, even EXTREME use possible, for many reasons. (I just purchased a 1986 Honda Civic {going to convert it to electric}which I will use for those short daily tips so I don’t ever have to torture my poor Subie that way ever again!) Current mileage: 42 K.

    Dec. 19, 2011 after one of those short trips I as always backed my trusty Subie into the garage. After I turned my head to look forward and turn off the ignition, I see steam coming out from under the hood! With the engine off, I open the hood to find the steaming expansion tank lid open and gooey sludge dripping out all over the place. It is very clear to me that there is more than coolant in the cooling system… I pull the engine oil dipstick and it is DRY! Not a speck of oil on it! I go into mild shock and feel ill. Did I just kill my car? After I regained my composure, I drove (in another vehicle) to the dealership. The service guy said it’s probably a head gasket. I said I didn’t think so, since I had none of symptoms that are typically associated with a HG failure. My theory was and is that “something” catastrophically failed that allowed all of the engine oil to be pumped into the cooling system in a rather short period of time. I get my case number from SOA and have the vehicle flatbedded to the dealership. Service manager says they need to do a complete engine teardown to do an evaluation. A few days later he says yes, there was oil in the cooling system (duh!), probably HGF, needs short block, new radiator etc.

    The Good: I have a new engine and newfound respect for factory recommended service intervals…

    The Bad: $6,009.82 (my penance to the Gods of Subaru and the Universe for mistreating my fine automobile).

    The Ugly: Yesterday, Jan. 4, 2012, I reclaim my beloved Subie from the dealership, drive home (7 mi), get my dog to celebrate turning over a new leaf, go to the store (4 mi) and after getting some groceries, drive back home. I back into the garage and after turning my head to face forward – you’ll never guess – steam from under the hood. NO OIL ON THE DIPSTICK!!!!! Again. This can’t really be happening?? Can it? You have got be F-ing kidding me!

    So, back to the dealer it goes and my SOA case file gets a new chapter.

    Now that you have an idea of what has happened/is happening, I’m reaching out for information regarding this matter from some who is obviously very competent.

    My initial “hit” was that the oil cooler might have failed. My inspection of that component at the dealership did not readily support that conclusion since, as I understand it, it is a double walled unit consisting of a heavy gauge pipe nipple that contains the oil and separate loops which the coolant flows through, separated by a large air-gap, – in essence a non contact cooling unit.

    So the big question is: What caused this to happen? Where/what is the “Smoking Gun”?

    Is the head cracked? Wouldn’t they have pressure checked the head before resurfacing it? On one they took off 0.004” which according to the mechanic is the limit.

    Is it likely that the new engine overheated? The pistons on the previous engine were discolored from heat yet it still ran great. Is it likely that the resurfaced heads are warped again? Which would mean new heads. Will the dealership fix it “right” this time or will they try to pull a fast one?

    I should mention that this car has Michelin X-Ice tires and I really don’t even want to think about having any sort of problems whilst cruising over Donner Pass in the Sierras in a Blizzard at ten o’clock at night (after getting a call from Nevada requiring me to mobilize)…

    I say that the car never overheated, until the obvious steam coming out from under the hood. I switched the ignition on yesterday right after that horrible event and the gauge read slightly above right in the middle. How can you have no oil on the dipstick and the gauge reads normal? Is the sensor or another component faulty?

    I realize that I have asked a lot of questions that you obviously can’t answer, but you may have some ideas or intuitive “hits”. Also any sort of advice you may have in what I should expect the dealership to do in returning my vehicle to its former condition of reliability would be much appreciated.

    In Purgatory,

    Stephan

    Two important points of advice for other readers that I wish I had known “before”:

    1.) Factory Warranty:

    If you car still has a factory warranty find the date or mileage of expiration. DO IT NOW! Mark it on your calendar. Give yourself a month or two BEFORE either will expire and get a full vehicle inspection or service from someone you trust, even though it may not need it yet. Mine expired four months ago. Would it have made any difference? Maybe. Do I feel really stupid? Yes. This obviously must be a part of my penance…

    2.) Why daily short trips are murder on a car engine:

    Short trips do not allow engine oil to reach operating temperature. Normal condensation in the oil pan will not turn into to steam and be evacuated. The same is true for gasoline. A very slight amount will always be left on the cylinder walls due the inherent imperfect sealing of the piston rings. This gasoline residue will also mix with your engine oil. Now we have water, gasoline, and unburned hydrocarbons from the engine’s normal combustion cycle all mixing. If the engine oil to comes up to normal operating temperature, the water would evaporate and the gasoline would turn into vapor and be fed into the intake for complete combustion. But if oil never reaches proper temperature, you will have some potentially really corrosive “nasties” sitting in your oil pan that will be pumped through your precious engine’s lubrication system every time it runs.

    The battery also emits corrosive gases when charging which can be sucked into the coolant overflow tank and radiator after it cools. Scheduled coolant changes take care of this potential problem.

    Not allowing an engine to come to operating temperature is SEVERE duty.
    Not maintaining recommended factory service intervals for such use is a usually a recipe for having to pay a hefty penance to the Gods of Subaru…

    Horizontally opposed engines as found in our Subies, are more susceptible to corrosive engine oil damage, since the heads and their vulnerable gaskets sit submerged in oil, whereas in a straight or V engine it is more likely to drain back down and into the oil pan…

    1. Hi Stephan,

      Thanks for the factual tips to other readers, you will find that same information here on this website in many places as well.

      Its tough to speculate what has happened from here but there is a crack somewhere. It could be the oil cooler or cylinder head as they were most likely re used. I would have hoped they had sent the heads to be pressure checked but you would really have to ask the Dealer that question, they typically crack between the coolant port and exhaust chamber and just cause a slight mystery coolant consumption problem so this step may have gone undone.

      Again its really tough to say from here and its a very unfortunate and very unusual set of circumstances, because it would be unusual for it to happen the first time I am sad to say that I am not surprised it wasn’t immediately diagnosed and repaired. The reality is that the market place will not support the real time, effort and analysis it can take for the odd ones, this most certainly includes any manufacture paying a huge warranty claim.

      We do the best we can but even a pressure check wont catch all of them, and what should have been done is a thorough evaluation until the pressure loss in either the cooling system or oiling system was found, what it sounds like to me is that the effects of the issue were diagnosed but not the cause of the issue and that is very common in our industry as it always comes down to time and money. Whats really going to hard on the dealer is that fact that it wasnt all caught the first time and Subaru may not pay the warranty claim. I have seen that and experienced it my self as a Technician.

      I hope it all turns out ok and please repost with your final outcome if you have the opportunity.

      Justin

  438. Justin, I have a 2005 Outback XT with ~$75,000 miles. A couple of weeks ago, I started noticing a strong coolant smell in the cabin. It is much more noticeable when i come to a stop.

    No over heating. No noticeable coolant loss. No coolant on the ground when I park. Car seems to be running just fine.

    I just checked the radiator cap and it seems ok but I might replace it anyway. There is a small amount of white residue on the small hose from the radiator cap to the plastic overflow.

    Since I can smell this in the cabin is the heater core the most likely suspect? I’ve seen that the water pump can be an issue, but don’t think it would cause the strong smell inside the cabin. Should I try the Subaru radiator conditioner? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Hi Jack,

      It could be a heater core, but you should also see steam on the windshield when turning the heat on to defrost if that were the case. The engine compartment fumes can make there way into the Cabin are of the car if the mode selector is not selected to recirculate, it may all be just a small coolant leak in the engine compartment.

      Justin

  439. Adding to the above question:
    the engine is 2.5 of course. The VIN says that it was made by Fuji in Japan, the engine code is 6.

    1. I have a 2005 outback XT, head gasket let go at 110,000 miles, also sounds like a bolt rattling around in the engine somewhere??? What could that be?? Turbo? or something came loose in engine.
      I had a 2000 outback, 275,000 miles with no head gasket issues. Then an ’03 with leaking gaskets and now this. My son has a WRX 2011 with a locked up engine, now being replaced.That thing was slurping oil or the oil pump quit or something? Is Subaru quality slipping or what??? I have always had CV joints which have to be replaced every 50k or so. Seems like they should correct the head gasket problems somehow

  440. Justin,
    I thought I’d spend an easy weekend replacing my valve cover gaskets, but after reading your forum and inspecting things more closely, it looks like my oil leak problem is really the head gaskets. So, my question is, my Chilton’s manual says I need to remove the valve rocker arms and camshaft when removing the heads. Is that true, or can I remove the heads as a unit and save myself a little time?
    Thanks,
    Scott

    1. I cant comment on Chiltons other than to say its not a Subaru Manual and the info is most likely inaccurate.

      We sell a Head gasket kit and provide a repair guide and Tech support.

      Justin

  441. Hello,
    I am looking at buying a used 2004 Forester, I believe with the 2.0 engine, although it could be a 2.5, definitely no turbo. Is this an engine that is prone to the head gasket problem? Any other red flags possibly associated with this car?
    David in Maine

    1. A 2004 Forester will have a 2.5l it can develop a HG issue, but the car should be subject to a pre purchase inspection before you buy it to know the condition of the head gaskets.

      Justin

  442. Hello Justin,

    First, thanks for everything you do !

    Happy New Year.

    I left a long post last night, Thur. 12/29/11.

    It was a story about my ’00 Subaru Legacy Wagon 5 speed manual transmission with 90,050 miles.

    I am wondering how this site “works”.

    Should I see my post on the site before you have an opportunity to respond? I think I may have done something inadvertently to make my story and question disappear. I sure hope the post is available for you to consider.

    I am going to attempt to add this comment and see what happens.

    Sincerely,

    Howard in Chicago

    1. Hi Howard,

      I have been down and out with a real bad Flu bug (I wouldn’t wish it on anyone), I am back at it. Because its a free service I provide I cant afford to pay one of the guys at the shop to fill in for me and realistically none really want to. I do apologize that any help has come late but there’s only one of me and I do try to help everyone but sometimes there will be situations I just cant respond to quick enough.

      Justin

  443. Hi there –
    I have a 2005 Subaru Outback Sport. The engine failed and was replaced under warranty at 55,000 miles, exactly 3 years ago.
    It’s not at 84,000 miles, and has failed again. The engine overheated on a cold night. I pulled over, let it cool, added coolant and it ran fine (normal temp) on the way home. The next day, it had a hard time starting, and then wouldn’t start at all. I towed it to Subaru. They’re saying its a leaking radiator and a blown head gasket. $700 for a new radiator and $2700 for a new head gasket…

    can anyone comment on the price quote? Should I fight for them to repair for free?

    I’m so tired. I fought them for 4 months to fix the engine the first time and I don’t want to go through it again.

    Should I hold out and let it sit there until we come to a deal? Or have them just fix it, and go after Subaru corporate once they fix it?

    They’re claiming they can’t say exactly what’s wrong till they take it apart, but won’t take it apart until I agree to the repairs.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Liz

    1. $700 for a radiator is high.

      As for the rest, if the radiator failed and caused the head gaskets to fail I am not sue how that’s their fault. My question would be who did the last oil change, was the coolant level low at that time? Who checked the coolant level last, its important to pop the hood during a refuel and check the oil and coolant levels, its the drivers responsibility to do this. I know that’s not popular but it is the truth and in the owners manual waiting for routine services to pick up low coolant or oil levels may be to late sometimes. I know checking your own fluid levels isn’t popular but its part of ownership. I recently purchased a 2012 Outback for a new shuttle car for the shop and the first thing I did was check the fluid levels so I would know where they were when I bought it and would know quickly if there was any issue. the engine oil level was 3/4 of a quart low which means that the pencil whiped PDA ( pre delivery inspection) was not done very well at all. Ive corrected the oil level and all is well, had i waited this low oil level could have caused damage, which wouldn’t have been under warranty as technically its the drivers responsibility to maintain the levels even on a new car. I point this out for the next readers of this post. Its always up to you to check the fluid levels and act when they are low this is the only way to avoid costly repairs brought on by low fluid levels.

      Because the engine was replaced under warranty the last time it points to their willingness to warranty items when appropriate and not when its not on them. We have had this happen here as well, its a very unfortunate situation, but again if low coolant level caused the issue, and I am making this statement on the assumption that it was, its just not a warranted item for anyone and its really your car.

      Im sorry that this is not what you want to hear but sometimes its just not going to be.

      Justin

  444. Hey Justin !

    I wish I knew 1/100,000 as much as you about cars, more specifically Subarus. I know you have absolutely no idea what my car looks like (it is currently torn apart at a mechanic’s shop)or what it needs to be whole and running again. Actually I was told today that it should be sent to Subaru heaven— the junk yard. Frankly I cannot bring myself to do that !!! So, here goes. I will try my best to describe the situation. And let me say in advance that I really appreciate your willingness to listen and offer sound advice. Thanks a lot !
    I have a 2000 Legacy ,manual transmission, odometer at 90,050. I/We live in Chicago-my wife, kids, dog & Slubaroo. I have maintained the auto reasonably well- oil changes, oil filter, tune-up etc. at the proper intervals. The ONLY thing that I needed to do for this car was to replace the radiator a few years back because it was punctured. Got that done and every time I turned the key, the car purred. I should say that my car’s battery looked a lot like the pictures you provided in the article about head gasket repair- too much corrosion around the battery cables.
    I swear the rest of this story is true and I am very confused. So, three weeks ago I brought the car in because I knew it needed the timing belt replaced and the H2O pump replaced. It was running a little “off”- low idle and the mechanic- who I have known (and trust) for 25 years- said it probably needed a new air intake valve. That all sounded very reasonable. He was going to check the plugs and wires while he had it in the shop. This is what we need to do for our vehicles if we want them to preform for us. He replaced the battery cables and cleaned the terminals. I made an appointment to bring the car in for the work we decided to do during the next week.
    I am on an expressway two days later and the “check engine light” starts to flash. I get off the highway immediately and took side roads. I probably drove 30 miles at no more than 35 mph before I got back to the mechanic’s shop. In the meantime the car is driving very sluggishly, like nothing I have ever experienced before.
    I needed to operate it in 2nd or 3rd gear and never above 30 or 35 mph.
    It was at this point that I met you and all the other Subaru fanatics that love their cars and your website. I figured that the mechanic would know about the head gasket problem and this would be a quick and “easy” solution. He noticed quite a lot of oil in the #3 cylinder spark plug position. And checked for compression all around. The #3 cylinder was not generating “pressure”. Sorry I don’t speak your language better. I asked him to check the head gaskets. He suggested we remove the heads and send them to the machine shop to have them checked out — for a possible problem with the valves..?? He did NOT notice any problem with the head gaskets as he was doing this work. The heads came back today in “perfect” condition. This leads him to believe that the only thing we can conclude is that the rings in #3 cylinder are bad and there is nothing to be done but send the car to the junk yard. Or, perhaps get into a used engine, which he advised against doing.
    What do you think? Thanks for sticking with me as I try to explain the story. As you know, I just hate the idea of junking this car!!! Is there anything we haven’t thought of or need to re-check??
    Thank you very much for your kindness and consideration.
    And thanks for helping so many people like me. I hope you continue to prosper and stay really healthy
    Happy New Year
    Sincerely,
    Howard in Chicago

    1. Howard,

      1st of all the last place it belongs is the wrecking ward unless its wrecked and unsafe, any mechanical situation can be remedied for much less than a vehicle replacement.

      To your car; The low Idle was an indication of a larger problem looming most likely that turned into a cylinder misfire resulting in one cylinder no longer contributing. At that point the car should no longer have been driven, it clearly states in he owners manual to tow a vehicle that has a flashing check engine light as well on this site if you use the search feature and type in “check engine light” there are articles there to read. Hind sight is 20/20 so what to do from here.

      A oil soaked spark plug wire will not function properly and could be the cause. A compression test should have been followed up with a leakage test to determine where the loss of pressure was coming from, its nothing new its basic mechanics 101. If a compression test revels a low cylinder the next step is to figure out why WITHOUT TAKING THE ENGINE APART. A leakage test will show the percentage of leakage then the Technician can decide through diagnoses where the leakage is coming from, it will be either the intake valve or valves, the exhaust valve or valves, or lastly the leakage to the crank case indicating a problem with the piston, rings or cylinder wall. If the leakage is shown to be the lower end than yes a valve job wont do the trick. Another real possibility is a dropped valved guide intermittently holding a valve open, again look to the website using the search feature for an article or two about that situation.

      I hope that helps, it does sound frustrating, I know you have a long standing relationship with the shop you are using, I don’t want to do anything to take away from that but everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, it sounds like you have found your guys weakness.

      Justin

  445. Back on Dec 8 you indicated that the 2010+ 2.5 NA in Legacy was of a different configuration to the ej253 found in the 2011 Impreza. I was wondering if anyone could let me know what exactly the differences are? Guess I’m just curious what the Legacy has that I don’t. Thanks, Bryan

  446. Well, it seems that maybe this problem is not fixed. My 2003 Impreza TS Wagon left side head gasket failed at 90K miles, externally, leaking coolant. Had both replaced. Now my wifes 2004 Forester X head gaskets are leaking oil and coolant on the driver side and coolant only on the passenger side. It only has 62K miles. Both are the 2.5 engines non-turbo. I had hoped this problem was contained prior to 2003 but it was not. While I was at the mechanic he had an Outback in the shop for the exact same repairs. I believe it was a 2004. He says the head gasket problem exists in some form in almost all the 2.5 engines. He says once they are properly repaired, they almost never have the problem again. I hope he is right. I used to talk up Subaru for being the most reliable cars I’ve ever owned but now that both have had the same problem and it is a pretty major one, before 100K miles, I may have to rethink my recommendation to others to buy them. I really hope they figure this out because I love the AWD. Honda are fanastic cars too but their AWD is not even close to as good.

    Thanks to Justin for posting this information. After my mechanic talked to me about it, I thought it seemed odd that Subaru would have this big problem that I had never heard of but this site has confirmed every thing he told me to the letter. Now I trust my mechanic even more than I did before.

    1. I currently drive a 2012 Outback with the H6.

      It is a great car for my lifestyle. If the car suits your life style than buy that one. We wont know for several years what the 2010 to current Outbacks will be known for, only history will show that.

      We get to caught up in fear of repairs and maintenance and end up making larger mistakes as a result. I see it all the time. A customer buys a Audi or Volvo and is blown away at the real cost of ownership only to switch back to Subaru all the while costing them selves Thousands of dollars.

      For the first 2 years budget for about $250 to $300 a year in maintenance and repairs if you blow out a tire it will be higher or if there are any accidents the same applies. Years 3 to 5 budget for $1500.00 a year. years 6 to 10 Budget for 1500 to $2000.

      This is the real cost of ownership for many. Some will avoid it and trade the car in making it someone else s problem but the numbers are accurate.

      Justin

  447. I own a 1998 Subaru Outback Legacy, and the head gasket failed me. She has about 162,000 miles on her. My mechanic said he could replace the head gasket, but he doesn’t know if that is going to solve my problem, and suggested that I replace the engine all together. The question is, should I opt for a second generation head gasket that could fail me in the long run, or go for an engine replacement. And if even if I replace it with a used engine, will I run the risk of the head gasket failing me again?

    1. Hello Hope,

      Unless there is some sort of compelling reason to spend money on the lower end or some sort of an issue with the lower end of the engine, A head gasket repair should be just fine, but based on what you have said the car may not be at the right shop for this procedure? A new engine is going to have the same head gasket in it, so wheres the gain?

      Justin

  448. Justin,

    I have a 2003 Legacy Outback with the 2.5 – 4cyl. engine. What products would you recommend I use to flush and fill the cooling system?

    Jon – Oconomowoc, WI

    1. Hello Jon,

      Remove the lower radiator hose from the thermostat housing, then remove the housing and the thermostat. you will get a complete drain that way. I would replace the thermostat and o-ring gasket with a SUBARU replacement part. From there use a 50/50 mix of Subaru long life coolant and distilled water. You can use the cooling system conditioner if you choose to its up to you.

      That is all you should ever do to your cooling system there are no flushes you should perform, if your cooling system is in such bad shape it needs to be flushed. buy a new radiator on top of the above procedure..

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  449. hello Justin,

    I have a 2003 Subaru Legacy L sedan and not surprisingly, the head gasket needs to be replaced at 96k miles. The car is in the shop right now and the mechanic is also replacing the timing belt and water pump. I just received a call from the mechanic who said that the engine is back in but that now the car is having transmission problems! What is going on?!?!?!

    1. Hi Ashley,

      I would be speculating and could be incorrect but its possible the front seal is leaking as a result of the torque converter being pulled out or the trans was damaged in much the same way?

      I must stress I just don’t know without the facts I am only throwing out some possibilities.

      Justin

  450. Found the article and threads to be very helpful. I am currently searching for a Subaru Impreza Outback Sport in the $2,500 – $4,000 range. I have found them from 1997 – 2003 in my price range, all 2.2l. From what I understand, I should look for one pre-1997 or 2000-2004 to avoid the multi layer steel shim head gasket with a graphite type outer film. Is this correct?

  451. Hello Justing:

    My wife’s 1998 Outback 2.5L with 143,000 miles is showing classic signs of head gasket failure, i.e., coolant smells like exhaust, recovery tank overflowing with coolant while radiator is low. The engine has not yet overheated, so I think we caught it in time.

    I just want to verify the best replacement gasket for the first generation is the one Subaru sells. You have written about 6 Star MLS gaskets, but if I understand correctly, the MLS gaskets are for the second generation, correct? BTW, do you happen to know the Subaru part number for the first generation head gaskets?

    Thanks for your service.

  452. Justin – I echo what many others have said in regards to your website and the assistance you offier. Its fantastic; its been a terrific help to me in understanding my subaru.

    If I may enlist your help … I have a 2004 Subaru Outback, (3.6 litre engine) that has 168K miles on it. Most of these miles have been in long-distance, highway driving. I’ve done the requisite periodic maintenance on the car; and for the most part, all has gone well. I LOVE my car, I love how it handles and its versatility.

    Over the past year, I have periodically smelled coolant – but never saw any dripping, and as it was intermittant, I never checked into it. Yesterday afternoon I went to pull my car out of the garage and noticed a fresh leak on the fllor of about 6″ in diameter. It was coolant – and it was clear green (not dirty with oil or additives.

    From what I’ve read, if the coolant disappears, then its leaking in to the engine, but if its a clean drip on the ground it could be a hose, the radiator or the water pump.

    I just took it into the garage and they immediately declared that it was the left head gasket. As I am well aware of the problems Subaru has had with the Head gaskets, I accepted this – they are going to change both (left and right?) for me. Does the leak I described to you sound like a leaking head gasket? This garage came highly recommended and I didn’t want to be driving around with a known coolant leak. BY the way, my temperature gauge never rose above the moderate temperature marking (9 o’clock). And this was the first time I saw clear evidence of a leak.

    Thanks so much for your guidance Justin. Happy Holidays.

    1. Hello Laurie,

      If its a 2004 with a 6 cylinder than its the 3.0l and a external Head gasket leak would be almost unheard of, but with 168k anything is possible. I would make sure the timing chain guides and water pump are done along with the repair to make it complete however.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  453. I have a 2002 Subaru Outback, 5 sp, manual, with 133,000 miles on the engine. I have taken the car to the dealership for all my maintenance work. I do have all the receipts. I have mantained this car per company recommendations. Noticed some coolant leakage this past
    week, and took car to dealership. Was told that I need
    new head gaskets. Have done some reading online and see
    that there were some problems with head gaskets. When I
    pulled up the WWP-99, my VIN # is not among the ones who
    had problems. I was given a repair estimate of $1800.
    I am wondering if it is worth repairing. I have been
    happy with the car. Most of the driving has been freeway
    driving versus around town driving.

    I would appreciate your comments.

    Thank you

    1. I feel its worth repairing, what else can you buy for $1800.00. Most dont look back after the repairs. This advice only works if you like the car and it suits your needs.

      I promise you will spend less repairing this car than replacing it. The value of the car is irrelevant, the value to your bank account by repairing it VS replacing it is what you need to consider.

      I hope that helps

      Justin

  454. Hi Justin,

    My 1999 Legacy Outback Wagon 2.5L ran normally with the temperature gauge a shade below 9 o’clock. Then suddenly over the last few days the gauge spikes to very hot after 25 minutes of driving, at which time I would reach my destination and could allow the engine to cool for several hours.

    Then today, as I drove, I ran the heater on high with full blower to see what would happen. The temp stayed normal for about 10 minutes, then the temp gauge rose rapidly and the hot air from the vents suddenly became cool. Then the opposite happened – hot air from vents and temperature gauge dropped back near normal. This fluctuation continued for a while but then the tempature gauge stayed high so I shut down.

    Is there any chance this is a sensor/relay/thermostat/coolant level problem or is it for sure head gaskets?

    The front seal is leaking and the speedometer is intermittent. I’m starting to think my car’s a goner.

    1. There is a chance, but the common thing is the HG. Car is far from a goner, just needs some work.

      Every 1999 Legacy and Legacy Outback needs a new Speedometer, there is an updated part it lists for $199.99.

      The front seal will be an easy fix while having HG repairs.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Justin,

        Thank you very kindly for your reply. Yes, it does help.

        Just wondering one thing I hope you can explain without taking up too much of your time.

        I do understand how a sudden release of combustion gas into the coolant causes the coolant temp to spike, but why does the air from the heater (with heater on max hot) suddenly cool? (And vice versa?)

        I’m still undecided about a repair. I’m guessing at least $3k for head gaskets, timing belt, front seal, speedometer/odometer, and a cracked windshield. Not sure I want to put that into a car with 150k miles.

        1. When you turn on the blower motor for the climate control system you are cooling the coolant circulating through the heater core. This Thus drops the total cooling system temperature as well.

          Justin

  455. Hi Justin,

    In my quest to find a mechanic in the Research Triangle Area who can properly do the HG job on my 2000 OB I spoke to a local, independent Subaru specialist who said that Subaru does in fact have MLS gaskets for the older 2.5L SOHC engines. The advisor said it’s not widely publicized, and one would have to know the exact part number. Needless to say I didn’t get the part number, but I haven’t tried very hard.

    Would you know what the deal is here?

    Thanks,
    MM

    1. Not true, Some will use the MLS gasket slated for the Turbo 2.5l part # 11044 AA642 ( as it will match up) but it can have adverse effects later.

      Subaru has never produced a MLS gasket for the sole purpose of addressing the external fluid leaks form the SOHC 2.5l from 1999 to 2009. Although they may in the future.

      I love the fact that the advisor wasn’t willing to share the part number with you?

      Justin

  456. Hi,

    First let me say that it’s amazing what kind of service you provide to the comunity. I certainly learned a lot, mostly about the technical aspects of it all. However, there is one aspect that I am still unclear about: how to work with an independent shop to get the work done the way you describe?

    I am about to have my HGs replaced on a 2000 OB with 96K miles on it. SoA is actually willing to chip in $500, but both dealers around here are ‘reluctant’ to pull the engine. So, I have approached a local, independent shop with lots of experience with Subarus and great recommendations. They do pull the engine, and they send the heads out to a machine shop if necessary. And they are cheaper to boot, but I wouldn’t get the $500 from Subaru. I’m ok with this, because I want it done right, so that I can drive my car for another 15 years.

    However, the independent shop routinely uses Subaru HGs. When I asked whether they were willing to use the Six Star MLS HGs I sensed some trepidations. I can totally understand why a mechanic would get a bit defensive when asked to change something they have done for years in a certain way.

    Still, I would really like to work with these people as and wonder if you had any advice on how to best do that.

    Thanks so much in advance.

    Cheers from Chapel Hill, NC!

    1. Hello Mischa,

      Yes if you have an Independent make the repairs you wont receive the $500.00 towards a most likely poorly made repair done at a Dealer. We see them here all the time with leaks a year or 2 later. Even before we used the MLS gasket we had better success than the Dealer repaired cars because of our repair method, it sounds like the Independent is on the right track and I really feel you will obtain more value for your money at an Independent Over the Dealer.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Hi Justin,

        Thanks so much for setting me on the right path. No we are all excited!

        I was able to convince my mechanic to consider the Six-Star MLS HGs. He called up Northeastern Imported Parts (NEIP), and now he is interested in the other NEIP parts as well. They must have some good sales people… Can you recommend all and any Six-Star parts? Do they at least match, if not exceed, factory specs, and do they perform well?

        I am asking because, together with my upcoming HG job, I am planning on having a bunch of other things done as well, such as all the timing-belt related things, perhaps a separator plate, perhaps the fuel lines, as well as everything else that’s typically done at a 120K mile service. And I see that there are Six-Star versions for many of the required parts, such as water pump, filters, belts, seals, and sensors.

        Is it OK to authorize the general use of Six-Star parts (incl. brake-related parts), should I in fact encourage the use of Six-Star parts, are there any Six-Star parts one should stay away from and use the Six-Star Gold (OEM) or genuine OEM versions instead, or are there specific parts from other manufacturers that you would say one should definitely use over any other manufacturer’s version?

        I know you can’t compile a whole parts catalog with your recommended/preferred versions, and in many cases it won’t matter too much. I just wanted to see if there are a couple of specific parts one should avoid making mistakes with.

        Looking forward to another 12 years with my ’00 OB!

        Thanks again so much in advance, and Happy Holidays!

        Cheers!
        MM

        1. We use many Six Star parts as do most other Independent Subaru Shops. A lot of these items are the parts that Subaru themselves uses, as they contract out for parts manufacture.

          I cant really think of any Part we wouldn’t use with a Six Star label on it.

          NEIP only sells wholesale which is the case with all of the good parts they just wont compete in a race to the bottom which is more like the Walmart model.

          Thanks for your Comments and I am glad to see you’ve had some success.

          Justin

  457. Hi Justin, I don’t have a comment but a question. I bought a japanese import 1999 Subaru Forester 2.0 turbo. When I picked up the vehicle at the dock, I put it in drive but it would not move. after about a minute or two with my foot on the accelerato pedal the vehicle would just lurch forward which eventually could cause an accident. It was suggest to me to change the oil filter and flush out the transmission and the problem will go away. I did that but it happeed once or twice again. A subaru mechanic in NY told me that I should get an overhaul seal and gasket kit because the oil pump in the transmission could be losing pressure thus causing this problem. Could you add anything to that as to what exactly could be wrong. It only happens when when you try to drive away.( by the way the car is in Dominica. I use it when I go on vacation.
    Thanks in advance
    Ransome

    1. Hello Ransome,

      A 1999 Subaru Forester 2.0l Turbo is a pretty unique vehicle, congratulations!

      It sounds like low fluid level, wrong fluid type or pump pressure, the later is going to require a Transmission overhaul or replacement. You can start with replacing the fluid and take things from there.

      Justin

  458. I’m trying to decide whether to repair my 2003 Forester or write it off. It has 170,000 kms on it and experiencing overheating problems for several weeks. Mechanic installed new thermostat, which seemed to fix problem but then overheating again. No longer under warranty. Took to dealer and they recommend replacing engine altogether plus installing a new clutch kit. Dealer diagnosed: “Low coolant, coolant in exhaust system, exhaust in coolant; both head gaskets are leaking; piston slap; base pan; crank pulley is down on oil; not running smooth; clutch is slipping; rear brake line will need to be replaced in next couple of years or sooner; exhaust hanger and muffler flange; engine light on, cylinder 1 misfire Code P0301.” And I can confirm that unfortunately oil/filter changes were not done regularly.

    I’m told I can purchase a used engine with 50,000 kms for approx. $2400 (Cdn). Do you think I should do piecemeal repairs or replace the whole engine?

    Any advice you have would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

    Roxanne

    1. Hello Roxanne,

      Any used Subaru engine you buy will need to have the head gaskets done or you will be in the exact same spot you are in now in your Subaru Forester.

      A Subaru Short Block plus the rest is a solid way to go, it may not actually save you anything in the long run going with the used engine.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  459. I bought a 2006 Impreza Wagon 2.5L and within a month was told it needed new head gaskets. My very first and definitely my last Subaru. Very upsetting that this problem has occurred over ten years and Subaru can’t fix it and really refuses to acknowledge the problem (I contacted them). I have had much better luck with my Toyota 4runner and Honda vehicles owned over the years.
    Stay away from the dreaded head gasket cars – it’s only a matter of time.

    1. I am sorry that you feel that way.

      Sounds like you didn’t elect to have pre purchase inspection prior to buying a used car?

      Had you not skipped that step you may have moved onto a different Subaru with out an issue, its funny you mention a 4runner as Toyota had a huge Head gasket issue with the V6 engines. Honda has a similar issue with the 4 cylinder engines currently in the Civic. For the Record the same company that makes the Gasket for Subaru also makes the gaskets for Honda and Toyota.

      Id encourage you to google or Bing Toyota or Honda Head Gasket problems and have a look for your self.

      If you spend $2000.00 on the Head gasket repair and have no other major issues and lets say keep the car for 100,000 miles from now it will cost 2 cents a mile for the Head gasket repair.

      Justin

  460. Just curious if the 2011 Impreza has the same engine as the 2010+ Legacy you refer to, the data plate lists the engine as a EJ253.

      1. Thanks for your quick response Justin, I was hoping you’d say that the 2011 EJ253 engine in the Impreza had newer type head gaskets (just bought mine last month) guess was wishful thinking. Anyhow, would like to take the opportunity to congratulate you on a great website, love to see someone passionate about his job and business. Blessings Bryan

        1. Bryan,

          Really I don’t think you will have a HG issue if you change the oil often, use good products and can make sure you stretch out its legs here and there.

          Justin

  461. Justin,

    I just had my ’03 Outback head gaskets replaced by my local Subaru dealer here in Wisconsin. They stated the repair went well but when they ran the car the radiator was not allowing coolant to flow properly and that there was a large amount of “stop leak” in the system. I did my own coolant flush and fills every 30k miles up to 90k miles w/ Prestone Super Radiator Flush, distilled water and Subaru coolant. At 120k mi. the dealer did a flush and fill when they replaced the timing belt. That was the last time the coolant was serviced prior to the head gasket replacements now at 148k miles. The dealer states that the Prestone Super Radiator Flush has a lubricant that will build up in the system. Ironically the cooling system had no problems when I brought the car in. Your thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Jon
    Oconomowoc, WI

    1. Hi Jon,

      Its difficult to put all the pieces together here. I am not familiar with the Prestone product as we would never flush a Subaru. Subaru has stated over and over again it should never be done, its not recommended in the owners or any service publication either. Its possible the super flush has a chemical in it that doesn’t agree with the Subaru Coolant I am not aware of one single aftermarket chemical that is compatible with the Subaru Coolant. Another words if you want to use brand X flush kit you better use brand X coolant. I have seen cooling systems and engine blocks just flat out clogged due to a chemical reaction that solidified some of the Glycol.

      Possibility number two is the dealer may have put the Subaru coolant conditioner in at the time they serviced the cooling system? I hate this stuff as too much will clog the cooling system.

      If the radiator has hot and cold spots which is typical of a restricted radiator it would need to be done, its also possibility number 3 is that the head gasket material has washed into the cooling, system clogging portions of the radiator as well.

      Hope that helps, but its all speculation with out seeing the vehicle first hand.

      Justin

      1. Thanks Justin. I’m actually starting to wonder if you’re human. I know no other human being that has your level of patience along with Subaru knowledge.

        1. Hi Jon,

          Yes I am human, lol. One that cares greatly that anyone that I come across in life, whether its in person at the shop, on the phone, or through the website, has a an opportunity to learn a little about their Subaru.

          Thanks for the feedback and best of luck with the Subaru

          Justin

        2. Hi Jon,

          I was thinking the same thing!!!

          Thanks Justin for helping keep Subaru owner across the country safe and happy. You really are amazing.

  462. Justin,

    Re: Minute Head Gasket Leak
    Just amazed at how many people you are helping. You’re doing a great job and I hope you don’t get tired doing it.

    I have a 98 Subaru Outback and it has a very small leak hopefully in one ofits combustion chambers. Over time, it pressurizes my coolant overflow reservoir and dumps my coolant.

    Once engine gets to operating temperature, it will begin to show bubbles at the overflow reservoir about 1 every 3~4 seconds. Running it for 30 minutes will show increased bubbling frequencies.

    At the initial climb to operating temperature, the thermostat will open and cycle the coolant but after 30 minutes or so, the inlet hose to radiator from thermostat gets cold as the coolant begins to have air pockets in them.

    Can u give me tips how to isolate which cylinder it is that’s causing the problem?

    One suggestion from various reads advises to remove the plugs one at a time until the bubbles disappear. Would using a radiator leak tester reveal which cylinder it is?

    How far are you from Hillsboro, OR? I bought the car for my son and I’d like to have it trouble free before I give it to him.

    Danny

    1. Hi Danny

      Its really not very realistic to isolate which cylinder might have a combustion to coolant leak. You would really need to do both sides anyways to make it a complete repair so its kind of a moot point anyways.

      Because the issue is Combustion chamber pressure and temperature causing the internal leak a coolant pressure test won reveal the issue.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  463. I have a 97 Outback with a 2.5 engine.. I had the head gaskets replaced at around 90k miles. The car now has 150k on it as of last night.. Last night I was driving with friends, and when we got to our destination, I noticed slight steam coming from under the hood, and the smell of coolant. I opened the hood and noticed that I had coolant pushing out of the overflow bottle.. I did not notice a change on the temperature gauge while driving.. While returning home, the car was running at around operating temperature while driving, but at an idle the gauge would climb almost to the high mark on the gauge.. Then I would start driving again and the temperature would lower to around operating range.. What could this be?

    1. Hello Jared,

      Sorry to hear about your Trouble with your Subaru Outback It could be a faulty rad cap, Thermostat or Head gaskets, it could be many other things as well. I wouldn’t be able to know what exactly is wrong with out viewing for my self

      Sorry I cant offer more

      Justin

  464. Continuation of thread from August 30, 2011
    (2003 Outback, 119k miles, EJ25 engine, VIN 4S3BH675237628482)

    Hi Justin
    After discussion, the shop agreed to participate in the engine repair and has offered to install a 2002 Outback engine EJ25 with 121k miles on it (VIN 4S3BH675X27665214). That car was in a rear-end collision, has a salvage title, an unknown history of head gasket replacement, and the engine was reportedly “tested” and deemed satisfactory. The shop would install the engine without replacing the head gaskets because they don’t want to invalidate their engine supplier’s warranty. Alternatively, they would be willing to locate a used short block and install that with the most current head gasket design.
    Based on the details in this specific thread, which is the better way to move forward and why?
    Also, are there alternative repair remedies (new block, etc…) that should be considered?
    Many thanks,
    Joe

    1. Hi Joe,

      I know your looking for advice but I am to far removed from your project to help you further, I already stated in August that the right way to do this was to have you pay for a new short-block, the shop covers the labor and gaskets, any thing else is risky, what if the used engine consumes oil, or you feel its noisier? I can go on for a page or two here.

      There is no way a vendor can do anything to not honor a mechanical engine warranty because the head gaskets have been replaced on a used engine if a vendor stated we couldn’t replace the head gaskets on a used Subaru engine we would not use that supplier. We do it here all the time there are only a few used parts vendors remaining so the chances are that we buy form the same company the other shop does as well. Never been able to buy a used short block, the wrecking yards sell complete engines and that’s all they sell where I live.

      A wrecking yard engine is ran when it can be, and tested for compression, neither one will indicate an external leak from a head gasket after the engine has been pressure washed to be presentable.

      I have done as much as I can there really is no advice I can offer any further, new short-block, all new gaskets, send the heads out to be double checked and all will be well.

      Hope it turns out ok for you

      Justin

  465. Hi Justin,

    I came across your site while browsing for head gasket information for my 2004 Outback. Nothing going on with it that hasn’t been covered here in this informative article and comments. I just wanted to say thanks for the very open and informative chatting here, makes me wish I lived near your shop for my current problem!

    Ann

    1. Also what is your opinion on this stop leak product? Do you see this product affecting any other wear parts in a negative way?

  466. Hello Justin,
    A follow up question, how long does it take to replace the head gaskets without removing the engine compared to pulling the engine and also reseal the rear?

    Thanks,
    Luke

  467. Justin,

    In an earlier post you said “If it had multiple doses of the Subaru Cooling system conditioner it very well could have a restricted radiator and or heater core.”

    My question is what is in this conditioner? Is it just a stop leak product? If I have a ’99 2.2L SOHC should I be using it?

  468. Hello Justin,
    Thank you for this website! I have a 1998 Subaru Legacy Outback with 140k milles. During the last six months, I noticed that the overflow tank had bubbles when the engine was running and an oily residue. I booked an appointment to replace the headgasket at the local Subaru dealer. After they did a courtesy check, they said the left headgasgasket had a small amount of seapage and didn’t recommend headgasket replacement at this time.

    Would you have any estimate on how long this last before it becomes a problem or is it better to bite the bullet now? What is the record mileage for one of these engines before they needed a new headgasket?

    Keep up the good work!!

    Luke

    1. Hi Luke,

      It would be better to get ahead of it, and not wait until it overheats as it will cost more. To answer the next question you have, the repair should never be done in the car, especially on a 1st gen 2.5l.

      Justin

  469. Justin,

    When you refer to Subaru’s coolant being silicate free are you talking about their super coolant that we have in our 2011 Outback? I think the manual recommends the first coolant change at something like 128,000 miles. I think it already has the water mixed in. By the way, do you know if the water in the super coolant is distilled? The coolant I’ve always used in my ’03 Outback has a service interval of 30,000 miles. I was told to mix it with steam distilled water, so I always did. Could I use the super coolant in my ’03 Outback?

    Forgive me if these topics have already been discussed, I’m new to this website but I absolutely love it. Your wealth of Subaru knowledge is astonishing, if not scary. I’m really starting to wish I lived in the Seattle area. No road salt either I bet.

    1. Hi Jon,

      The silicate free applies to all Subaru Coolant. Yes the water that is mixed to create the 50/50 mix is treated, this way Subaru can control the PH level precisely.

      Even if you use the Super Blue Coolant on an older car such as your 2003 Outback, the service intervals are not changed form the every 30k stated in the owners manual, its only on the 2008 and newer that its 100k coolant (we still suggest 60k here) and I will be proven right on this in a couple of years.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  470. Justin,

    Chemically, how is Subaru’s coolant different from regular coolant and are there any “over the counter” brand name coolants that can be used in lieu of Subaru’s coolant?

    Thanks.

    Tim

    1. It is considered to be silicate free vs most off the shelf are not. Subaru Instead uses organic based corrosion inhibitors, that’s the real big difference.

      You can call Subaru and request an MSDS Material Safety Data Sheet, and then request the same from Prestone, Peak etc and look for the differences there.

      We have never bothered looking for a equivalent, as its priced close enough to everything else out there, its not worth it to us to create questions with the cars under warranty. The head gaskets do seem to hold up better to the Long life coolant as well.

  471. Thanks for all the helpful info. I have a 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback w/177K on it, purchased 3 yrs ago. Four days ago, the car died when I was approaching a stop light. Would not restart. (Just prior to that, on the same day, I noticed that the heater would blow only cold air. Then I noticed a strange metallic pinging when I decelrated and accelerated that gradually got louder.) I tried to see one more client, but to no avail. The car died in traffic.

    Called AAA and towed it to the independent dealer where I bought it. They told me it is the head gasket – gave $2200 estimate. Said, due to the holiday, they wouldn’t start work until Friday after Thanksgiving. In the meantime, guys at work convinced me to look for another cheaper “beater” car. (My line of work involves several short trips daily.) I called the dealer 1st thing in the AM Fri. to tell them to hold off to give me a chance to look around and think it thru. They told me they had had time Wed. after all and took the engine apart already. Since they had it all apart, I told them they might as well proceed with the repairs, as I’d have to pay for their labor to that point anyway. I have gotten oil changes, service checks religiously every 3000 or 3 months, except for this last oil change. I am ashamed to admit I let it go for about 1000 or so past the 3000 mark. Two days prior to this problem, I had had the oil change done at a gas station, asked them to check fluids. (In June of this year, I also had a radiator hose spring a leak and was replaced. Had coolant refilled then.) Neither place made any mention at that time of coolant/oil problems.

    I did not notice any overheating issues, saw no smoke, no oil or coolant leaks that I noticed. The dealer told me the coolant was low – they checked the thermostat, but it was open in the right position. My questions are:
    1. Did they rush to say it is a HG problem? Could it be something else?
    2. Should I ask to see the old HG, to compare to the pictures you showed above?
    3. The $2200 price seems too high, given the other prices people here have quoted. Should I try to negotiate?
    4. Should I have them replace the water pump, timing belt and timing belt tensioner while they are doing this work? If so, how much more should it reasonably cost?
    5. Is there anything else I should have them check out or repair?

    I have no choice but to pay for this on my credit card, which is approaching maxing out. I am in a precarious financial position and can’t afford to be taken for a ride. Thanks for your help.

    1. Hello Heidi,

      When the heater was blowing cold air that was the initial indication that there may be a HG issue popping up. I will also share that the Temperature gauge cant work unless the sending unit is surrounded by coolant so its possible that the low coolant level affected the gauge from indicating there was an issue. Subaru’s don’t mix oil and coolant when the gasket blows so there would have been no mention of it prior.

      Its tough to advise you here, most likely its a head gasket, and if you have authorized the work and price its not right to waver now in my opinion but that’s really up to your comfort level.

      1. Did they rush to say it is a HG problem? Could it be something else? (Most likely its a HG issue)
      2. Should I ask to see the old HG, to compare to the pictures you showed above? (Not sure, at 177k it may have already been repaired once?)
      3. The $2200 price seems too high, given the other prices people here have quoted. Should I try to negotiate? (If you have already agreed to the price I am not sure how) Are the quotes in writing and cover the exact same thing?
      4. Should I have them replace the water pump, timing belt and timing belt tensioner while they are doing this work? If so, how much more should it reasonably cost? (I would, I don’t know their pricing)
      5. Is there anything else I should have them check out or repair? The hoses, Radiator etc.

      In closing the idea of looking for another cheap beater is just more money ready to be spent, you are better off repairing what you have and having a warranty then spending money on a unknown set of problems and money yet to be spent.

      Sorry I cant offer more, I know its not easy or fun to put money into your car, but sometimes that’s the best move you can make.

      Justin

  472. Justin,

    I know it’s a holiday weekend and don’t anticipate a reply until Monday but if the math works out I may make the trip to have you address my headgasket(s)because of how passionate I am about my 3rd Subaru. My wife has our 4th, a 2011 Outback 2.5i w/ CVT.

    Jon

    1. HI Jon,

      We would be happy to help

      If you wanted to take the time to fill out the Request a Quote page, either my self or one of my service advisors can send you a detailed estimate.

      https://allwheeldriveauto.com/requestquote/

      Im glad to see you have been a Subaru Guy for a while. Know thats the kind of person that will work on your Subaru at our shop, some one with passion.

      Thanks

      Justin

  473. Justin,

    I have an ’03 Legacy Outback with the 2.5 4-cyl. and 147k miles. Just noticed oil leaking from the driver’s side head gasket. The passenger side looks perfectly fine. What can I expect to spend to have this fixed by a Subaru Dealer in the Milwaukee, WI area? Just curious to hear what you think it should cost. Any suggestions on where to go? The dealer I’ve been going to has been inconsistent with good service and the dealer closest to me has a terrible reputation.

    1. Hi Jon,

      I will check for you on Monday if there are any good Subaru Independent Shops in the part of the country.

      I really dont know how much the dealer will charge it could vary from $2500.00 to $3000.00

      Justin

  474. Justin,

    You are on the list of “things I’m grateful for” today.
    Thank you for your patience and willingness to share you considerable knowledge and experience with the subaru community. Thank you for your time and effort in maintaining this valuable resource.
    Happy Thanksgiving to you, your family and employees.

    Mike D

  475. I had the head gasket replaced on my 2007 Outback wagon (not turbo)last month (at 89,000 miles) and ever since it has smelled of burning oil, especially when idling or when it is stopped. I took it back to the dealer and they claimed there was no burning oil or any leak – they suddenly diagnosed a new problem for me that “Might” be the problem.

    Why would the smell appear right after I get the headgasket replaced and not be related to it, expecially since it is a burning oil smell? They claim it is axle boots. I am frustrated and leary – this car has had problems from the beginning, but as soon as the 35K warranty was up (exactly 35 miles later), the transmission went and there was no “good will” warranty.

    Has anyone else experienced this burning smell after a head gasket replacement? Thx!

    1. You can sometimes develop a odor form residue burning off it typically goes away with a week or so, but that can depend on how the vehicle is driven.

      The CV axle boots do tend to tear, and if that is the case it will cause a smell when the grease sprays onto the exhaust. I wouldn’t wait to long to repair that as you can go from a very repairable boot situation to a axle replacement followed by a vibration issue see this article here https://allwheeldriveauto.com/seattle-subaru-cv-boots-and-axle-problems-explained/

      The right side CV boot tends to go around 100k, but some do fail earlier than this, why not ask to see it if you are leery?

      I have never heard of a 2007 model with a defective transmission at 35k, was the fluid not changed?, what failed with the transmission?

      The transmission has a 5 year 60k warranty so something doesn’t add up there, you will find this information in your owners manual.

      I understand your frustrated but the CV boot thing happens to any car with a CV axle, its just rubber. The timing may seem suspicious but it also is pretty typical for a dealer tech to be very lazy during the inspection and probably never looked that closely at your axles.

      If you are having some difficulty with the dealer you are taking your car to, maybe you might look for another repair facility? But if the issue is just the compounding or timing of the repairs it doesn’t on the surface seem to suspicious to me.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Thanks for your answer. What cheeses me off is that this certainly should have been apparent when they had the car in for the head gasket repair. Why didn’t anyone say anything?

        They did add another repair to the head gasket issue when they got in there, replacing timing belts, adjusting tension,etc., which raised the price over $200 past their “guaranteed estimate.” They said these things were designed to fail withing 10-20K miles, anyway, so they might as well do it now, as the cost of labor to do it later would be saved if they did it “while they were in there.”

        So why couldn’t they do the axle boots – since they were, according to the dealer, the cause of the smell which began immediately upon my getting the car back from the head gasket repair, they must have been failing then, but not one soul mentioned it until I took it back for the burning oil smell (which, I have to say, has diminished considerably since I took it back, leading me to think that they DID leave a leak when they replaced the headgasket, but didn’t want to admit it, so they blamed it on axle boots!)

        Your information regarding what can lead to head gasket failure brings up another issue: I had to replace the battery 2 years ago and the mechanic told me that the original battery wasn’t even a Subaru battery, it was an off-brand that never should have been in there and didn’t really fit. There was significant corrosion. When I called Subaru corporate about this, they said my shop was wrong (it was not a dealer) and that they obviously had given me some old battery as the replaced one. If the corrosion can lead to head gasket issues, then Subaru is at fault for not putting a Subaru battery in it in the first place.

        Are all dealers/repair shops this shady? Are all mechanics just “lazy,” as you put it, or are they encouraged not to mention other problems so that I’ll have to come back later when the issue is more severe and possibly garner them more money? I am so sick of this car and of owning any car because it is impossible to know who is telling the truth, I just want to drive it into the river! If I ask to see the bad parts, I’m not sure what I’m looking at and there’s no way to know if they’re really even from my car unless I stand there during the whole procedure and watch the mechanic remove them.

        As far as the transmission fluid goes, I had a very bad grinding/screeching sound on turning a few years ago – took it to my regular mechanic who said the reservoir was completely empty and that I must have a leak. They filled the reservoir and encouraged me to ask Subaru for a “goodwill warranty” – they also mentioned that I should ask them for a goodwill warranty on the head gasket seepage they (my mechanic) had noticed at the same time (pre-35K warranty expiration).

        When I took it to the dealer for the so-called “goodwill warranty” check, they said, “The reservoir’s full – what are you talking about?” I told them that my mechanic had filled it up and they said, “That’s what you get for not bringing it to a licensed dealer for repairs – they probably did something to it” – I was outraged! Their check revealed no leakage in the reservoir and they refused to check the hoses because it was “too much work” – meanwhile, I still get that sound occasionally and have to top off the reservoir. At the same time I asked them to check on the “head gasket seepage” that my mechanic had noticed and they stated there was no problem.

        I am appalled at this dealer’s approach and will never take my car there again – there are not many choices in my area, but they are not even on the radar screen.

        I have several quotes for the axle boots, ranging from $310-325 per side. Is this reasonable?

        Thank you so much for being there – you don’t know what it means to feel I can ask these questions of someone with no particular monetary interest at this point.

        1. Hi Ramona,

          Its not as simple as a battery being the sole reason the gasket fails its merely one contributing factor and not much of an issue on te newer models as they have more ground straps, the battery if weak can create a situation where there is excessing venting as a result of the battery being in a state of discharge, which will in turn create more “on time” of the alternator causing an increase in voltage spikes and than finally excessive voltage in the cooling system and then electrolysis. Its actually much more complicated than this which is why its lost to so many. I cant really comment as to the battery being wrong Subaru has used the same battery since 1990 in the legacy and Outback platform they are made by Johnson Controls and do not say Subaru on them in many cases.

          The timing components should have been done, and the condition is not known until the vehicle is taken apart, we always quote out the timing parts when we estimate a Subaru head gasket repair, and we also loose some of these repairs as our price is higher but its apples and oranges many shops do not give a complete estimate for fear of not getting the job. Its also difficult to call a customer and tell them its going to be more than anticipated, and if someone senses you are not receptive of the news about the timing components, they sure aren’t going to talk to you about cv boots as no one likes being yelled at. I dont know if this is the set of circumstances just trying to put out one point of view.

          Its not an issue of just being lazy, its about working for free, you probably dont want to go to work and work part of the day for free? Technicians at a New Car Dealership service department are paid by the job only, anything they do outside of what they are directly being compensated for is technically being done for free. I dont expect you to agree with this concept, as I dont either but thats the industry and it really will never change.

          I will tell you that you need to try and find it in your self to remove some of the emotion out of owning a car, or it will drive you crazy. Its just a car, they all need work, its going to be worse the newer the car you own. I know that this can be easier said then done but I have to share that part of the business model of cars is to make you frustrated, so you will give up on a car you own and then buy a new one. If you can avoid this you will be better off.

          You can own an older vehicle and spend a little more time and money in service but hopefully have no car payments, or you can own a newer vehicle have a huge car payment and struggle with warranty concerns that dont always find resolution easily because of the same service department structure. There is nothing more frustrating then being 30k or better in debt on a vehicle with a warranty issue that goes un resolved.

          You really should seek out a good independent repair shop get away from the dealer, and your ownership experience will also improve. All businesses are in business to make money, but with a good independent repair shop you will find sympathy, understanding and the willingness to help that you will never find at a dealership service department as its all about the numbers, no one will work for free, if your not paying the bill no one will help you.

          I know that some of this is not want you want to hear but its the truth.

          As far as the boots, its probably to high for just one front axle rebooted, to low if its for both front axles and I sincerely hope no one is going to try and replace your axles with anything made in China.

          I hope this helps, and that the situation improves

          Justin

          1. Thanks so much for your response. Of course, I never expect anyone to work for free, I just want an honest and complete answer when I take my car in for repairs. If fear is what motivates their giving me a complete and honest response to what is wrong with my car, then I think you’re right – I need another repair shop.

            I paid cash for the car, so I don’t have payments, and I don’t want an older car that has constant problems and is always in the shop. It just seems that this car, relative to anything else I’ve ever owned, has had more problems and time in the shop – it’s my only transportation and having to take so much time off work for it is the part that’s frustrating. I know CR did not rate it as tops in repair record, but I did not expect it to be this problematical. I was encouraged by many other Subaru owners to buy this, since theirs had always been great, and I was proud, at first, to have it, but no longer.

            So, I guess there’s a bad apple in every barrel and I think I got one, combined with the particular dealer I have been using. I’ll check the Blue Book and see if it’s worth selling for something else.

            Thanks again. I truly do appreciate your insights and your candid responses.

  476. Hi Justin,
    What a great website you have, so glad to have found it! Warranty is almost up and I asked my trusted independent mechanic to look over my 2008 Outback to see if there is anything that needs to be taken care of that’s covered under that warranty. He found that the head gaskets have started to leak slightly and he showed me exactly where and told me to take it to the dealership ASAP. Dealership checks out the wrong thing tells me I need power steering rack because of steering fluid leak. I specifically made the appointment for head gaskets and told them to check what I asked them to check because I’ve been under the car seen the leak myself. They’re calling the oil leak a brown stain and that this is normal because the aluminum that it’s(HG?) made of is more porous and therefore that’s what happens!?!?!?
    As far as I’m concerned, that’s the start of my head gaskets failing and should be covered. Does it sound to you like they’re trying to get out of warranty work? I’m feeling like this is a case of: I’m a woman and they don’t think I have a clue. Any input on what to do next would be appreciated…thanks!

    1. Hello Ann,

      I am so glad you had someone independent look at it before the warranty expired, I cant tell you how important this is!!

      You need to call SOA and have a talk with them as I cant imagine the rack is leaking up onto the cylinder head!

      I would also maybe talk to the service manager and maybe arrange to view the car together.

      You also will want to make sure the Dealer has documented you feel you have a HG leak and were advised by another shop as well.

      Best of luck, with a little work you should be made whole.

      Justin

      1. Hi Justin,

        Sorry for the confusion, they didn’t say the rack was leaking on the cylinder head, that was totally separate and not what I had even asked them look at, that was part of my frustration. They hadn’t even looked for the HG leak until after I told them to go back and take another look.

        When I went it to pick up the car the next day the service desk guy did admit that the “stain” they were seeing was from oil and said that any Subaru out there with 10,000 miles or more will have that same stain. When asked to put that in writing with regards to my car, he refused and said that was just his opinion.

        I will be making a few phone calls to see about what can be done, if anything. I wish that people had enough respect for everyone else to honor their warranties.

        Thanks for you time!
        Ann

        1. If there is some very minor sweating around the gasket they may claim that on a scale of one to five its less than a one. But if it accumulates into a drip onto the crossmember and exhaust thats a 3 or better and requires a repair. The statement I just made is how Subaru determines if an oil leak is going to be repaired or not under warranty.

          Justin

  477. Hi Justin,

    Thanks for the great website with so much informative information on Subaru. But there’s also a down side to it after reading all HG issue with Subaru boxer engine, it worries me to buy one. I’m in the market to buy a Subaru for this winter season.

    1. Any comments reliability on new CVT transmission on new Impreza 2012 even though they also use it on Legacy 2011. Is this new 2.0L engine going to have the same HG issue, what’s your opinion?
    2. Regarding HG issue, which year is good to buy used and which year to avoid for Legacy/Impreza/OB?

    Thanks,
    Nick

    1. I am unaware of any known issues with the CVT transmission. The CVT trans has been out since 2010 in the Outback and Legacy.

      It wouldn’t be responsible of me to tell you that the new 2.0l will or wont have any HG issues, its an unknown and will remain so for about 5 years. Which is also the number of years it will be under warranty.

      I suspect that if it does it will be external oil leaks.

      If you are looking for a Subaru buy whichever one suits you the best, that’s what really matters, I wouldn’t worry about the potential for a HG issues, any car you consider will need repairs, its how it works, anyone that states otherwise is incorrect. I work in the industry and can tell you that no one is exempt from issues some come $200.00 at a time some a one time expense of $2000.00.

      Justin

  478. Hi Justin
    Thank you so much for the informative site! I have never owned a Subaru but was considering a 2010 Outback wagon once my Prius bites the dust. Now I am not so sure after reading about all the HG problems. Seems like the Subaru is pretty tempermental (this coming from a Prius driver currently 140K with never a repair, and only normal scheduled maintenance performed along with synthetic oil changes every 5k)
    So, 2 questions:
    #1 I realize that the new generation Outbacks are still very new, but is there any track record yet as to HG problems (or problems in general) that I should be aware of?
    #2. I am in the SF Bay Area (East Bay). Do you know of any decent independent Subaru mechanics down here?

    thanks for all the info. You are doing a great service!

    1. Hi Paul,

      Since you mentioned that you own a Prius and have had it for 140k with no problems, I would like to take this time to point tout that if you Google or Bing the terms “Prius problems” you will find pages upon pages of folks who have had the exact opposite experience. I mention this because had you read all of that prior you may not have purchased the Prius and had the experience you have.

      The HG thing is overblown and on a 2010 will most likely never amount to much more than an external oil leak if anything occurs at all. The 2010 Outback uses a MLS gasket and a Semi Closed deck Block. There has been no issues that I am aware of but there really wouldn’t be yet as its only the 3rd year of this configuration.

      I know that repairs are no fun, but at the end of the day buying the right car for your life style is what should be important and if faced with repairs down the road its going to be many years from now.

      I don’t know of any shops down in California, it comes up a lot and I have tried to locate shops for some, I just hesitate to recommend a shop with out knowing the owner.

      Thanks for the kind words

      Justin

      1. Thanks Justin for the feedback. I suspect you are correct about googling Prius problems, or problems for any vehicle for that matter. Before I purchase I would like to find a good independent mechanic in my area and am in the process of doing so.
        Thanks again!

  479. Hi there,

    I have just done a HG on my 1.6 subaru. After dooing about 20 miles in the motor the car has started knocking. From cold it sounds like a rod, but it goes with in a matter of seconds. Then once warm, it it knocks all the time, but a very lo down deep knock. Any ideas?

  480. i have a 90 subaru legacy replace the radiator water pump timing belt has no thermastat in but its overheating spraying out of the overflow what can be the problem

    1. There are many possibilities including the cooling fans not coming on, or the Head gaskets being blown. Because the vehicle isn’t here and you have really only provided me with some very basic information there just isn’t much I can tell you I am afraid.

      Justin

  481. Hello,

    Thank you for this wonderful site and all the information and support, I wish your shop was in the chicagoland area. Would you know of a good subaru shop in chicagoland

    I am in the market for a subaru wagon, but I am a little dettered by the hg issues. I was in need of your advise, which version is the best in terms of reliability 2004 up 2.5 L or the H6 or the early turbo wrx motors. This is going to be my winter car so reliability is much more superior to performance.

    I am seriously considering a 04 2.5 legacy with 60k miles are these better in terms of the headgaskets?

    1. Its really hard for me to call a car unreliable for an oil leak at a head gasket because most cars develop this over time, just that in a Subaru with the H design its more obvious.

      The H6 has less issues than the H4 but you will pay for it at the Pump. The WRX engine is nice, but there is a huge Gamble in a used Turbo Vehicle.

      You have to understand that its all about the Car it self, how the car itself checks out, I can tell you the H6 is great or the Turbo engines solid but that doesn’t mean the one you are looking at is, Buy what fits you the best.

      Justin

  482. Hi Justin,

    Really informative site you have here.

    I have a bit of a dilemma with a 2010 Subaru Forester. In June this year I went on an extended trip with the family, including some off-road driving. After a relatively shallow water crossing, the overheating light came on, and turned out that the fan had put a hole in the radiator due to the blades flexing in the water (was not told that this could happen when purchasing the car and specifically asked about water crossings…). Unfortunately for us, this happened in a very remote area, and it was several days before we were able to obtain a replacement radiator and get going again. I was in conversation with the nearest Subaru service centre (800 kms away) re. coolant, and was advised that it was better to fill up with the best quality coolant available where I was (only 2 to choose from) rather than water.

    We eventually made the long trip home with no further issues and I promptly had the car in for a service, explaining all that had occured and to pay particular attention to the cooling system. It turns out that nothing was done re. the cooling system, and a couple of weeks later the replacement radiator failed (corroded) due to the coolant being incompatible with the original coolant (even though Subaru failed to remove and flush out said coolant during the aforementioned service). I then had a third radiator supplied and fitted by Subaru, and hoped that would be the end of my (expensive) problem. I was assured all was fine with the car at this point.

    A few weeks ago, the car started overheating again. This time there was no sign of any coolant leak. I took it in to the service department again, and they replaced the thermostat. Still had overheating problems, so took it in again and was advised that the problem is a buggered head gasket..!! And of course, since they say the problem was caused by the use of incorrect coolant, I will not be covered by warranty (my car has only done 38000 kms!). My issue with Subaru here is that they have had the car serviced twice in the intervening period, including right after the incorrect coolant was put in the car, but did nothing to correct the situation when it may have been possible to prevent getting to the unfortunate position I’m in now.

    Before I take matters further, was just wondering what your thoughts might be on all of this (BTW, seems crazy to me that the wrong coolant could do this to an engine in such a short time). And one other curious thing is that when the radiator was replaced the last time, the blue (ultra long life?) coolant was used, whereas there was green coolant in the car when it was purchased new (which lulled me into the false sense of security when I put exactly the same colour green coolant into the car after the initial radiator failure).

    Cheers,

    – Steve

    1. Wow Steve,

      Lets try to get this figured out. I can tell you that Subaru Of Canada doesn’t play by the same rules as SOA ( Subaru Of America) .

      The 2010 Forester Came with the Blue Subaru Super coolant from the Factory but I have observed in some cases it appearing more green than blue until it is drained from the vehicle and looked at more closely.

      I just cant fathom any radiator corroding in such a short amount of time unless there was some sort pf contaminate issue. I will add the Head gasket failure may be as a result of the previous deficiency in the cooling system and not a direct result of the wrong coolant

      Because it was in fact serviced at a Subaru Dealership and from the sounds of it either there was no documentation of the improper coolant or there was no corrective action either way you should have some talking points when you contact Subaru Of Canada. For the Record the 2010 Forester uses the Same Head Gasket as the 2005 Outback that survived without the Blue Subaru Super Coolant with out to many reported internal failures.

      Its ging to be difficult to really determine if the original overheat damaged the head gaskets and the wrong coolant was just a compounding issue or if there was some sort of contamination, but either way because the Dealwer service department had an opportunity to do something preventative from the sounds of it and may have fell short thats where I think you can make your argument.

      I hope that helps, and I truly feel bad that such a young vehicle has had so much go wrong.

      Justin

      1. Thanks for that Justin, can give you a belated update on this saga.

        After having the head gaskets replaced (at my expense), I experienced the exact same overheating problem. Took the car back to the dealership again, and after some analysis they figured it was a blocked heater core that was the problem. This was replaced (I was required to pay 50% of the bill). Of course, my immediate question to them was that perhaps this was the problem all along, and the expensive head gasket job may not have been required. To this they insisted the head gaskets did indeed need replacing, but I of course have not seen any physical evidence of this, or the results of any tests that may have been carried out.

        I’ve been driving the car for a couple of months since the heater core was replaced without any further issues. Still in the process of making a claim re. the head gasket expense.

  483. I just bought a 1999 Legacy Outback Limited 30th anniviersay with 42,000. Its my first subaru and my dream car so needless to say I am very excited. The previous owners were a family who said they used it as a summer car for their house in cape cod. The dealer told me that the only thing to pay attention to since it was parked by the ocean was the was rust and recommended looking into getting an underspray. What is your opinion on underspraying? I will definitely follow the tips you mentioned earlier regarding maintenace to help prevent HG problems. Besides that is there anything you could recommend me to do for a car that is 12 years old with 42,000 miles? Thank you!!

    1. I would just make sure its up to date based on age and not mileage on all aspects of maintenance especially items such as coolant, and spark plugs as well as the other vital fluids.

      Justin

  484. I’ve been looking at 2003 Baja at a dealer but feel they may be asking too much for it. 63000 mi for $14K. It is the Base model with Manual Transmission. What is your opinion of the MT vs the Automatic? Looking over your site I’m concerned that I will need to sink another $2-3K in HG repairs if it hasn’t already been done. How can I know if it has been done and also are you aware of any good Subaru repair shops in St. Petersburg, FL?

    1. I think that both are good choices but its really up to what you prefer. Both transmissions have a good track record.

      You may have to deal with a oil or coolant leak at a head gasket, but any other car it its class will need work as well.. I know that doesn’t help much but it really is the truth. Being in the Industry I do have a pretty good fell for what car is known for what issues.

      I am sorry but I just don’t know of any Subaru Shops in your part of the Country.

      Thanks

      Justin

      1. Justin,

        I did purchase the vehicle after having my mechanic look it over. It appears to be in very good condition. One owner and well taken care of. That being said, I have no way of knowing just what exactly has been done to the car and was wondering if you have any advise as far as what I should do so I know when and what has been done. Such as replacing the coolant for example with Subaru recommended coolant? How about the conditioner? Any other fluids or preventative maintenance? Thank you again for your time and this blog.

        ~Eric

        1. I typically will suggest doing a major service ( Fluids and Filters and spark plugs) to give your self a base to maintain from when there is some doubt about what was done when.

          Justin

  485. Hi Justin,

    I have a 2004 Subaru Forester with 108,000 miles. I was just told that the head gasket is leaking on both sides of the engine and that it needs to be replaced as soon as possible. I have been very good at maintaining the car. Is it worth the money to have the work done on a car with this many miles on it? How many more years/miles can I expect to get out of the car if I have the repair done?

    1. A 2004 Subaru Forester has years of life remaining, as long as the car still suits your needs I say fix it!

      If the repairs are done well this should be the only time you deal with a major repair on your Forester.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  486. Justin,

    Great website wish you were on the east coast.
    I have a 98 outback Ltd it has 222K on it, I bought the car with 101K in 2005. Its been a great car and has taken quite a beating in Vermont the past 5 years. Around 10K mile ago it started running poorly, wouldnt move till warmup then flashing check engine light and poor gas mileage. After visits to several shops and a few hundred dollars no one cold could tell me what was wrong. I decided to pull timing cover off to check out the belt as I had never changed it. As it turns out the crankshaft pully bolt was loose causing woodruff key to wear and shift in turn allowing the crankshaft sprocket to shift a few teeth in each direction. I replaced all seals and timing belt pullys and the waterpump. When I put it all back together it ran great. Now it seems to be losing coolant, I noticed it when it started getting hot on a recent trip of 300 miles. I didnt let it overheat and have been adding fluid every few days of driving. Its not visibly coming out anywhere I can see. Could it be the head gaskets? It runs great, no smoke, 25 mile per gallon highway.any suggestions would be a great help.

    thanks

    Bill

    1. It could be the head gasket but it could also be a small leak at the radiator?

      If its consuming coolant I would suspect maybe a small rack in the Cylinder head, I know you live in an area of Rust, but you might try to drop the Exhaust from the cylinder heads and inspect the exhaust ports for any signs of coolant.

      Those are the two places I would start looking at.

      Hope this helps

      Justin

  487. I just had my 2000 Outback get a complete head gasket replacement this past week, about $1,300 worth. Now that the car is 11 1/2 years old with over 120,000 miles on it, are there any other major repairs that I have to look forward to? Is is still worth keeping at this point?

    1. Hi Sam,

      Really the Fluid leaks from the Head gaskets are the only real major issue you should have to contend with. There are of course things that will come up, but one Subaru may never have the wheel bearings replaced in 300k and another 3 times in the same time frame as an example.

      If you bail on the car now it will be like lighting a match to the $1300.00 you already spent.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  488. there is a Subaru legacy outback 1997, engine has a knocking noise, odo shows 250,000 miles/. I love the car.Should I take a risk?

    1. Its hard to say, you may buy the car and end up having to source a used engine, which wouldn’t be the end of the world.

      If you like the car and it suits your needs it still probably has a lot of life left. Even if it needs an engine in the future.

      Justin

  489. Justin,
    Great thread. Tons of entries so I apologize if this has been covered before: I just replaced the HGs on my 2002 OB LLBean with the 3.0 6 cylinder at 92K. How common in this motor? What is the advice you typically give on how to prevent HG failure from happening again?

    1. Hi Will,

      That’s not to common on the H6, we have done a few here and there, but nothing like the H4.

      Really just maintain it and as long as the repair were done correctly I cant really image in being an issue.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  490. Great site, this is in reference to my girlfriend’s Subaru…. She has a 2007 Outback with 77000 miles and took it to the dealer for its scheduled oil change and was given a laundry list of “highlighted” needed repairs. First they said the HG are leaking (of course they did not tell her if it was internal, oil or water,) second the battery needs to be replaced and then the CV boots are cracked and leaking. They quoted her prices: 2500 for the HG, 500 for the CV boots and 100 for a battery. She was shocked at the price and then thought she has had zero problems and has followed the recommended service intervals can this be true. I am going to look at the car and I would to know exactly what I should be looking for to determine the type of leak? Also is the cost of 2500 average for replacement of the HG, that seems high to me, but I am a chevy guy. I think I will look for a local Subaru shop to see if I can get a second opinion to compare with the dealer.

    Thanks for the great info!

    1. Hi John,

      $2500 is on the high side but that’s about the going rate at a Dealership.

      Its going to be leaking oil externally most likely and maybe a little coolant externally as well. You will need to raise the vehicle up so you can look at the bottom of the engine and also remove the splash pan to view it.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  491. Justin,
    I purchased a 2000 Subaru Legacy Outback with 92K miles (Dec 2010) with newly replaced timing belt and water pump, “reseal” was performed to include HG. When purchasing, I did take into consideration that the head gasket might require replacement down the road.

    My situation: Advised by a reputable shop that HG is leaking, externally. They previous check thought it was the valve cover gasket (12/2010 @ 93K). I do find an occasional drop of oil under the car (last month or so) and have had the burning oil smell for awhile. Engine has never overheated. Fluid did need to be added every couple of weeks (approx 1 cup), but the last couple of months not as much. I also noticed oil in the plug sockets when I did a tune up.

    Based on these comments:

    “Second Generation 2.5l SOHC head gasket leaks almost ALWAYS start out as external oil leaks and then graduate from there into External coolant leaks and finally internal head gasket leaks resulting in overheating.”

    “Typically the 2nd gen 2.5l would have been an external Leak and may have not ever overheated.”

    These are my symptoms. I totally understand that the HG will need to be replaced. @ $1700.00 this does fall under the average/reasonable price range.

    My questions:

    1) At 105K timing belt/water is due for a change, but, if it was performed at 92k do you recommend redoing it? My faith in the previous workmanship (not the current service provider) has diminished somewhat. Maybe he did those correct(?)

    2) Will HG service correct having oil in the plug sockets?

    3) If the current service provider purchases the OEM gasket kit, I’m assuming the 11044AA63-3 set; can I assume I’ll get the same results in 50-75k miles? I see your kit can be purchased for $215.99 plus S/H ($16.70). Other than your kit or Subaru’s are there any others? Update, I was just advised that my shop use a HG kit from ROCK (or) ROC. Are you familiar with that brand? I’m looking to schedule the repairs next week.

    Thanks for any feedback you give. FYI, I initially scanned your site (entirely) last year when I made the purchase and again today to get back in the know due to the issues I’m having. This is the best source for info I’ve ever found!

    Thanks,
    Andy

    1. Hi Andy,

      The general idea is that if you uses a MLS type gasket such as the ones we offer and the repair is done correctly and this is a BIG IF it really shouldn’t need to be done again.

      But this is based on not knowing a lot about the surfaces in your engine if some one used a whiz wheel the first time that may explain the short repair life and thus any subsequent repairs will be short lived if not corrected.

      We just sold a set to a shop that wanted to return them when they found out they would have to refinish the surface to a Refinishing average of “RA 50”. Which is just plain nuts because they should make any Head gasket repair to an RA 50. One of the primary reasons repairs don’t last is this misstep.

      $1700, sounds about right, depending on your part of the country, its probably to high in Wisconsin and to low in California.

      I would plan on replacing the timing belt and water pump along with the tensioner and idlers, it makes for a complete, non complicated repair. Unless when they are removed for inspection as part of the head gasket repair they are in great shape.

      The spark plug tube seals will be addressed during a HG repair absolutely.

      Thanks for the feedback and best of luck

      Justin

  492. Hi guys,

    I love the site and find it very helpful. Here is my Q…

    I have a 2000 Forester with 100k on the engine. It failed state inspection here due to head gaskets oil leaks dripping the the exhaust headers. I had the gaskets done and now all seems well, except for increased piston slap when cold.

    What do you recommend for oil (type, weight, etc.) and any additives (STP?) to help minimize the damage from this slap.

    I normally run Castrol GTX 10W-30 High Mileage with no additives.

    Thanks,
    Chris in NH

    1. Hi Chris,

      Yes Piston slap can increase in sound after a HG repair do to the resealing of the combustion chamber making for more powerful explosions.

      I like Castrol GTX you can experiment with the Viscosity but it may prove to be unfruitful.

      In most cases there wont be any harm done, but if you want to try anything I would go to a higher Quality Full synthetic oil such as Motul, or Enos and stay away from the well known off the auto parts shelves.

      Try 10-W30 first

      Justin

  493. Hello Justin,
    I would like to ask you a question about our 1999 Subaru Outback Legacy. Last night my son came home saying it had started making a knocking noise and overheating about 3/4 mile from home. He drove it home. When it was cooled this morning, we inspected it. There is no oil, no coolant, and when started (once) it was not making the knocking noise.There does appear to be something wet sprayed around. Oil was changed Aug’11–has never been low, doesn’t burn oil. Car has about 175,000 miles. Is this car worth saving? We are low on $ but definitely don’t have $ for a new car. What should we do 1ST? We have no mechanic that will tell us before spending $ which direction to go in. Once we tow it and have someone look at it… we are already out $120. That is a lot for us right now. I really appreciate any help you may be able to give us.

    1. Hi Wendy,

      I hate jumping on the same wagon but its tough to know what its going to take to repair a car without seeing it, it just is.

      If you had to put $3500.00 to $4500.00 into the car you already own and could use it for another 5 to 10 years your price per mile will be very reasonable VS buying a new car or a newer used car.

      That is typically my advice but its not practical for every one as sometimes getting a car loan is easier to achieve than a loan for repairs if in fact that’s what you would have to do to make the repairs.

      What you might try doing is taking the car to a good independent for an evaluation under the following premise

      1. If its affordable and the car still suits your needs, proceed with the repairs.
      2. If its not affordable you are comfortable selling the broken car to the shop. This requires a conversation with the shop owner ahead of time where you explain the circumstances.

      It wont be that much different than trying to trade in a broken car or trying to sell it your self on craigslist or the like

      I have lots of these circumstances at the shop and firmly believe that I am not so unique that there aren’t other shop owners just like me who just want to help our customers get through there current situation as painlessly as possible.

      I hope that helps and the best of luck

      Justin

  494. Hey Justin,

    Just wanted to say thank you for keeping this thread going for so long. I’ve got an 04 Outback with 86k mi that was recently diagnosed with a head gasket leak and dealer quoted a large sum of money to fix. I took your recommendation and called Subaru warranty for help. My car didn’t qualify for the campaign and my CPO Gold Plus warranty has since expired, but Subaru offered to pay half of the bill. Thanks a lot for the info, and to anyone else who finds this great resource, I would definitely recommend calling Subaru directly for help. Politely explain the situation, and the worst they can do is say is no. Thanks again!!

  495. Hi Justin

    Thanks so much for the obvious effort you put into answering questions. I have a 2001 Outback wagon with 160k miles and the same symptoms of head gasket problems described by the other folks writing in to you. While the car has remained reliable, the smell of burning oil/coolant and overheating seems to be getting worse and we have finally decided to put the effort and money into fixing up the car rather than replacing it. Can you recommend an independent Subaru repair shop in the Reno, NV area?

    Thanks

    Jay

    1. Hi Jay,

      I don’t have any connections with any service provider in the great state of Nevada I am afraid.

      I would ask your fellow Subaru owners in you part of town where they take it for Service.

      Hope that helps, and sorry I cant offer more.

      Justin

  496. Hello Justin,
    I would like to retract my original question and get a more general advise. I’m considering a purchase of a 2002 Impreza TS 2.5L, it has 110K miles on it, and it seems to be well maintained. The seller has priced it $20 less than the KBB value of a “good” condition. However, the seller has not changed the timing belt, and it has struts that need to be replaced, which I took into consideration when bargaining down the price $700 lower than the KBB value. However, I am now concerned about the gasket problem, which from what I understand is an expensive repair. Is the gasket issue something that is a scheduled maintenance that I could have expected to be taken care of in order for the car to be in “good” condition? I do not want to insult the seller by asking him to renegotiate the price if that is something that I shouldn’t expect from him. To buy/bargain or to let this car go, may I please have your thoughts on this?

  497. I am considering buying a 2002 Impreza TS 2.5L, it’s got 110K miles on it, and it seems like it’s pretty well maintained. I just read your article, and I’m a bit worried. There didn’t seem to be any leakage that I can tell, but I do not want a huge repair cost surprise. I know it’s due for a timing belt and some struts, but I’m not prepared for much more if I purchase it at the asking price.

    Is the head gasket issue a definite repair that is bound to come sooner or later with this year and model of Subaru?

    I’m not too familiar with the area, and I’m not sure where to take it to a pre-inspection. Do you have any recommendations in Vermont?

    1. Hi Madelle,

      I don’t know anyone in Vermont I would suggest some research into your local shops to determine where to take it for an inspection.

      I am a broken record hear but if you tell me the type of vehicle you are looking at I can pretty much tell you what its known for in terms of repairs, the Head gasket affects most if not all Subaru, another car in its class say Volvo or Audi will get into you pocket a whole lot more often.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  498. 1987 GL…..Part 2.

    Would add that I do no see oil in the coolant reservoir nor coolant/water in the oil. I use about 2 quarts per 3000 miles because of ring wear but the oil is not foamy nor does it separate into water/oil phases.

    Thank you.

  499. I’m amending my question, Justin!

    Would I be better off checking with other independent mechanics to see if they would do the head gasket repair for a cost in the similar range vs taking it to the dealership for service?

    I was surprised that the auto shop I took it to strongly recommended I have the dealership do the work – according to the shop, they would charge $4300 for labor alone.

    I do realize that you are not a fan of dealership service departments…

    Thanks again for any insight.

    1. Hello Jeslyn,

      I would look for a different Independent Shop that isnt “hitting the pipe”. I am not a fan of the Dealer service departments but do have to concede that sometimes they are the best or only choice given the demographics. $4300 in labor is ridiculous and I really try to stay out of the price thing as it varies so much from state to state but you could ship the car here have us fix it and ship it back for less than their quote if the labor part alone is that high.

      It sounds to me like the independent Shop is afraid of your Subaru and in our industry if you dont want to do something you put a very high price tag on it. Because the Techs dont want to make the repairs to your car they will probably have an attitude and in fact do a bad job.

      If there are no other options than the Dealer it is I guess but I say that kicking and screaming I might add. If you want I can call our Subaru Parts supplier and inquire about Subaru Specialty shops in your area?

      Justin

  500. 1987 GL 5SP Manual 4WD WGN with ~ 222,000 miles. Recently experienced some temperature spikes and noticed continual loss of level in coolant reservoir and hot antifreeze aroma in the engine compartment. After some reading here I am thinking I have head gasket issues.

    Tested the old thermostat against a new one in a hot water test on the stove and it was obvious that the old thermosat was done for as it didn’t respond much nor did it fully open.

    Changed out the coolant and replaced the radiator cap and hoses while changing the thermostat. No antifreeze on the water pump underside so I left it alone.

    Still have hot antifreeze aroma in the engine compartment and the reservoir continues to drop but absolutely no temperature spikes, not a one since the thermostat change out.

    No apparent signs of antifreeze on the underside of the water pump, engine face, engine underside or garage floor.

    Do I have a head gasket failure leaking to the outside of the engine and the antifreeze is evaporating so it cannot be seen?

    Thank you.

    1. You could very well have a cracked head allowing coolant into the Exhaust chamber of the Cylinder head, if you drop the Y pipe you might see green if you look into the Exhaust ports, you could have leaking intake manifold gaskets, or a leaking throttle body bypass hose and the coolant is really just collecting on top of the block?

      When the head gaskets go they will not mix Oil and coolant!

      If I was looking at the car I would start with a cooling system pressure test to see if there was a leak, if there was I would correct it, from there I would look at the possibility of a cracked head or failed head gasket. causing coolant consumption.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Found two leaks.

        Traced coolant drips from A/C idler pulley body back up the lower A/C bracket to the top of the engine and then to the 90 degree bypass coolant hose located under the compressor and in the return line to the water pump suction. Squeeze the 90, coolant squirted out. Inspection inside revealed a hole and severly failing wall. I was on borrowed time!

        Also observed coolant coming out of radiator cap. New cap to be installed.

        Will go from there with keeping tabs on coolant level.

        Thank you.

      2. In addition set in a new all metal radiator and and OEM radiator cap, thermostat and gasket.

        Realize now that the problem was with a missing intake gasket on the driver’s side, split water pump suction side transition 90 degree hose, bad radiator cap and faulty radiator. All have been replaced and all is well.

        Thank you.

  501. Hello Justin,

    I recently purchased a 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback with 105K miles and newly replaced timing belt and water pump, but original head gasket. When purchasing, I did take into consideration that the head gasket might require imminent replacement.

    While driving on the freeway, the temperature gauge went to maximum level – as it was rising, I immediately pulled over and turned off the car, calling a mechanic friend of mine who advised me on how to get it to a service station without it overheating a second time, in order to get some coolant into it and attempt to get the car home. I was able to successfully do that, and took it the next day to an auto repair shop near my home – no overheating occurred on the way, and the service station couldn’t reproduce the problem for most of the day, but finally succeeded in reproducing an overheat. Because it is a dual overhead camshaft, they recommend that I have it done at the dealership, rather than at their place.

    My question: when I asked the mechanic if it was worth the money to make the repair, he seemed to hesitate, then told me that it was likely that this will happen again with this particular engine, as it has been problematic for many owners.

    Could you please give me your take on whether or not I should have it done? The dealership is quoting me $3000, perhaps $500 less if the cylinder heads have no warping issues, and though it’s a lot of money, I also live in the Bay Area and know that everything is more expensive here. I’m fine with paying the money for a repair if it extends the life of the car to a reasonable degree, but would hate to purchase a $3000 bandaid that last for 12 months…

    Your thoughts? Thank you so much for this forum, it is hugely helpful! I apologize if this question has come up previously.

  502. Hey Justin
    I’m looking at purchasing a 2002 Impreza RS MT. It will need the HG done – have been quoted $2000. I’m just wondering if it’s worth it, of course; am negotiating.
    When will I need to replace the HG again? Are these really ‘normal wear items’?
    I am also looking at a 2000 Impreza TS AT. Which of these two are the most reliable car? Or, which do you prefer if you had to choose one for yourself?

    1. Hi Dave,

      Its tough to answer that as I have no knowledge of who is making the repairs and what is being used. We see cars here a year after the repairs done at the Subaru dealership leaking oil and coolant again and I see cars that I made he head gasket repairs out of my garage (before starting my company) 10 years ago still not leaking.

      If its done by a pro, using a good technique and the proper pars it should be ok for years to come, if not than that is the grey area that I just cant comment about.

      Both cars you mention have the same drive train ( minus Trans) so its really about which one checks out the best ahead of purchase and personal preference.

      Justin

  503. Leaving a record for an 04′ Outback H.G. candidate w/ 89,000 miles.

    Noticed a couple tiny drips of oil a couple days ago, inspected headgasket seal area. LH head leaking very slightly, RH not yet noticeable. No other symptoms, compression good, coolant clean. Ordered your six star headgasket kit, looking forward to taking care of this quickly.

    Greetings from across the country, Bangor, ME.
    ASE Master Tech

  504. Hey I am wondering if this subaru is the first gen 2.2 or the 2nd. Also if you have any pros and cons for this model year I’d love to hear them. I’ve wanted a subaru forever and I want to make a good decision. Thanks

  505. I have a 2001 Legacy Wagon, 2.5L, manual transmission, with 192,700 miles on it. I took it to be checked out because the coolant was not returning from the recovery tank to the radiator when the engine was cool. (There was no visible external leak, and the engine was not overheating.) My mechanic did pressure and gas tests and determined that I needed head gaskets. I told him I did not have much money but that I wanted to keep this car for another 150,000 miles. I asked him if he thought I could do this if I replaced the head gaskets. He said if I replaced the head gaskets and also the timing belt and tensioner, water pump, radiator, and clutch that the car should last that long. He said he would pull the engine and inspect it and tell me if there were any other problems. I agreed to all this. When he pulled the engine the only additional work he recommended was to replace the hoses. He did everything listed above and charged me $1960.

    I picked up the car. 158 miles later, I lost power on the freeway, the motor started knocking, and I stalled out. I had it towed to another mechanic (I was now out of the area of mechanic #1) who told me the bearings were shot and I needed a new engine. He said it would cost $5000 and advised me not to do it. He speculated that coolant had gotten into the cylinder in a way that the first mechanic could not have been aware of, that the coolant slowly dripped down, and that when I turned the key and the piston dropped it tried to compress the coolant and that’s when the bearing was damaged. (I understand none of this. I am repeating it as clearly as I can recall it.)

    Mechanic #1 says he is certain there was no coolant in the cylinder and that the bearing just happened to go out at that time. He offered to rebuild the bottom half of the engine for another $2500 on top of the $1960 I’ve already paid him.

    I have decided now not to put any more money into the car; I am walking away from it. I have accepted the fact that I will never really know what happened. Because I understand so little about this, I have no basis for saying that mechanic #1 did the work improperly or that he should have known that there was coolant in the cylinder. My question is this: given that I told him I knew nothing about engines and asked him if the repair he was recommending would make it reasonable for me to expect the car to last another 150,000 miles, should he have told me that something this catastrophic could still happen after he did the $1960 repair? (He told me then that he would inspect the engine and see if there were any other problems. He didn’t tell me there was a part of the engine that he wouldn’t be able to see.) Should he refund some of my money? If he had told me in advance that what did happen was a possibility, I doubt that I would have had the work done in the first place. Thanks.

    1. Hi Gail,

      Realistically form here, I cant tell you EXACTLY what happened, but I will confirm that the rod bearing condition is an unknown when repairing the Head gasket on a Subaru or really any car. The rod bearing could have been weekend by a prolonged internal head gasket leak, lack of good oil changes, and many other circumstances as well.

      The reason most likely for failure immediately after is the explosions are now stronger in the combustion chamber after a result of the new Head gaskets and increased seal in the combustion chamber.

      It unfortunately does sometimes happen and isnt really anyone’s fault, its just a mechanical device that couldn’t function anymore.

      Mech # 1 really had no way of knowing this was going to happen and it really only happens to a very small few of the cars repaired, Mech # 2 is correct that the 1st guy wouldn’t have known this would happen but is most likely incorrect about the coolant thing.

      I am sorry it happened its really just bad luck I am afraid, I would also reconsider the 1st shops offer, that’s a good deal and prevents you from lighting a match to the money you already spent. Just my thoughts as I know its frustrating but if you really evaluate what makes the most sense to your pocket book fixing what you already have is already the decision you had made, you were just thrown a curve ball.

      Justin

      1. Justin, thanks very much. I’ve decided not to go ahead with the repair and to buy a new (late model used) car instead. Here’s my question: do the 2009 and 2010 Outbacks still have head gasket problems, or did Subaru finally resolve those by then? Thanks.

        Gail

        1. The 2010 Outback uses a different head gasket than the 1999 to 2009 do.

          It would be incorrect for me or any one else to speculate on a 2010 at his time, in 4 or 5 years I will be able to answer that question, there is no track record on the new platform as of yet.

          Justin

  506. Justin,
    I have just moved up to New England and was considering getting a subaru. I was wondering if there was a particular model you would recommend? Does the head gasket problem plague all Subarus? and is it a reason not to purchase one?
    Josh

    1. It will affect most non Turbo 4 cylinder models but the mileage is all over the map at when it may occur, its not a reason to avoid Subaru in my opinion in fact its just the opposite, this is the one thing that will probably come up the rest of the car is solid. You can plan for it. Other AWD cars in the same class have multiple system issues.

      The truth is that all cars and I mean all cars need maintenance and repairs.

      Without knowing budget its hard to guide you. If its less than 5 years old I would say a 2008 2009 Outback should be a solid car.

      Justin

  507. Hi Justin,
    I am considering buying a 2006 Subaru Baja Sport with 75,000 miles. After reading a signigicant number of posts to you I am a bit scared off, especially related to the head gasket issues! What should I pay close attention to or have checked before I actually purchase the vehicle?

    1. Hello Jennifer,

      Just have a good pre-purchase inspection performed and you will know where you stand on your purchase. Your era will develop external fluid leaks and should be viable if an issue.

      Justin

  508. Justin,
    My 80yr old mother-in-law has an Outback Legacy 2001 sedan. When she took it in to her local dealership where she purchased it for a check up they told her she needed new head gaskets. the car only has 60k original miles on it as she doesn’t drive much each year. Do you think that SOA will pay part or all of her cost to do this since the car has so few miles on it?

  509. I have an 02 outback LLbean with the 3.0 and almost 200000 miles. I’m having an overheating problem and think it may be a chain tensioner near the water pump rather then a head gasket but would like to make sure before diving in to this to know exactly what i’ll be up against. I put a pressure tester to the radiator and it slowly built up with the heat. I turned it off when it hit 18 19 lbs but it was at 16lbs when the needle was halfway and it was a little warmer then that at 18 lbs. It lost maybe a lb of pressure in 15 min from 16 to over 15 while it was cold but might have still been slightly warm. It went down rather quickly while warm but hoping thats just the coolent cooling losing pressure. I hear a slight rattle at times starting but after blowing a hose and losing all coolent it was constant and coming right around the water pump. Its not leaking any but blowing out the overflow when running hot and doesnt start to really overheat until it gets low but seems to run warm specially at an idle. Is it possible this is a tensioner and is there a sure way to tell before i open it up. I know head gaskets aren’t common and this started out of no where. I’ve been pushing this a while but not letting it really overheat i really do need to address before it becomes a real problem specially after seeing what happens if that chain does pop. You seem more knowledgeable then the rest and appreciate this site and any help. Thank you, dave

    1. If the chain is loose it would be VERY obvious in audible sound. Its not that the H6 engines dont Blow the head gaskets, its that they dont leak oil and coolant externally in some cases as early as 45k on the 2000 to 2009 SOHC H4 engines. We do see the h6 models at about 200k with internal head gasket failure from time to time, and that is what I would test for.

      We would use a gas analyzer to determine if there are hydro carbons from the combustion process making their way into the cooling system once the vehicle is fully up to operating temperature and being pushed at higher RPMS. I realize you dont have the same test equipment as we do but that is the ONLY test I suggest.

      Justin

  510. 2002 Forester, a version that was not subject to the head gasket recall. 82,300 miles. Head gasket leaks oil externally. No coolant loss, and no oil in coolant or coolant in oil. Dealer quoted a little over 2.5K (with new water pump). Every 500 miles the oil level goes roughly half down from maximum to minimum mark on a deep stick. I’ve been simply adding oil for close to 4,000 miles now. No overheating ever.

    Question: if this is simply a version of oil loss, what do I risk by not replacing head gasket right away? Any danger/damage to the car by doing it? Money is tight right now, so I am trying to delay spending big amount for as long as reasonably possible…

    1. HI Jon,

      If its just oil,you monitor it carefully, budget for the repairs, and make the repairs ahead of any long trip you should be fine.

      If you are just using the vehicle locally and not using it for any distance driving, just use caution and keep monitoring it, however it can go from oil to coolant to internal quickly, just dont let it overheat and you can probably put it off until you can fit it into your budget. You can control expense at this point but if allowed to overheat you cant control the expense.

      Justin

  511. Hello Justin,
    Great site…After reading through the posts i have one question. Is there any other possible cause of residue in the coolant overflow besides the HG or is that a guarantee of a HG failure? I had a severely leaking water pump last summer. It overheated the one time before i realized the water pump was bad. I replaced the water pump, thermostat, and timing belt. Haven’t had any problems since. There is no overheating and needle always perfectly in the middle. However, after it overheated the first time there has been the black residue in the overflow tank ever since. Doesn’t seem to be any worse but it is there. Just want to be sure before i head back to the mountains for the winter. The previous owner said they had the gaskets done but they didn’t provide any records of that. It’s a 99 outback with about 145,000 miles. Thanks in advance for any input.

    Dan

  512. Hi Justin:
    Just have to re-iterate the comments of many that your site is a fantastic resource for us Subaru owners. Here’s my problem if you can add any insight. I am flummoxed…

    2002 Outback (5spd) 160K. Started noticing high oil consumption (1qt every 1000 miles or so) at about 155K. Independent garage I have been using for 10yrs diagnosed leaking head gaskets. They replaced head gaskets, timing belt, adj valves, cleaned, pressure tested & resurfaced the cylinder heads, installed new valve seals. Also knocked out a timing belt service at this time (last one at 95K miles). This included water pump (w/ w-pump and t-stat gskt), front crank seal, cam plug, thermostat, spark plugs and wires, new head bolt kit, etc. After $2K on these repairs, I am still having to top off oil about every 1000 miles. They moved to a 10W30 oil to see if this would help. They now think it is burning the oil since they cannot find any leaks (I have not got a 2nd opinion on this yet). My question: is there anything else we could be missing here? The repairs sounded pretty thorough. Any next steps?

    Thank you,
    Tim

    1. There is a small chance the PCV is faulty but most likely its worn oil control rings.

      If it was using oil prior, there really wasn’t anything in a head gasket repair that was going o help resolve that I am afraid.

      As long as you stay on top of the oil consumption it shouldn’t be an issue other than an annoyance.

      Justin

  513. Hello,

    I just finished putting in HG into my 99 Ob with 195k. On start up, there was a loud knocking sound which subsided after about 20 seconds and has not appeared back. It runs smoothly now with no more bubbles in the coolant tank.

    My questions are:

    Was the knocking at start up normal?
    I used Felpro gaskets. Are these considered good?
    Should I change the oil early to rid the engine of any contaminates?

    thanks for your great forum

    1. Kevin,

      We sell gasket kits here, I would never hesitate to put the gasket you mentioned in a Ford or Chevy, but since its a Subaru, the gasket you mentioned is one of the last on the list. The updated Gasket from Subaru is all you should have used. But there isn’t any way to unwind that situation just know for the next time.

      You should change the oil if you are concerned.

      I really have no idea what the knock was, just pay close attention to it I guess

      Justin

  514. hi Justin
    thanks for you above comments on my 99 outback..sorry to come back to you–but Im still undecided about whether to get it fixed and wanted to run a few things by you..Its a rare treat to be able to talk to an unbiased expert!
    I have to–in the interest of full disclosure (even though i feel a bit foolish) tell you that the car has overheated numerous times..sometimes on the highway where I just happened to look down and find the gauge pinned!–not knowing how long it was in the red before noticing it..others on the highway where it was unsafe to stop..so i drove for 5 minutes or so with it pinned before pulling over…Also–the car seems to be often (in the past year or so) down a quart of oil..so ive driven it many time this way—i thought it was the leaking valve cover gaskets..but it has persisted after changing them some months back,,I tell you this because of your mentioning in an earlier post how bad it is to run with low oil..

    While waiting for your response to my earlier post (explaining how I love my subaru and recently put alot of money into it)…I was passing the dealership where i bought it..a very no-bullshit and seemingly honest one…so i a stopped to ask the service dept their opinion…The head of service there heard my story..and told me that he suggested NOT fixing the car….noting that with new head gaskets comes new levels of compression..that can sometimes blow out other parts on an older engine (which is similar to the post above that you commented on)
    He said that for that reason they wouldnt be able to guarantee the job…and that –in additon–there were the risks of finding the heads or engine itself warped…adding considerably to cost…so he thought it was a bad idea…even going as far as to say that –considering im on a limited budget–hed STILL prefer to see me buy another used subaru with high mileage (mine has 174K) than attempt fixing mine..
    he said that the fact that I was losing oil was evidence of probable other issues…that would not be fixed by new gaskets

    I love my Subaru–and –overheating aside…it runs GREAT.
    what do you think??

    thanks so much!

    1. Hi Eugene,

      We have customers of all walks of life. Some will not hesitate to drop 5k on a 1997 Outback, which does happen, we did a major repair on a 1993 Legacy last month as well, other customers wont do that.

      My advice is always the same, if the car works for you and still suits your needs, repairing it is the cheaper option. If it doesn’t suit your needs don’t fix it! Dont let Book Value correlate to repair value.

      Cost per mile of repairing what you own VS cost per mile of shiny new.

      If you did an engine, and everything else and drove it for 10 more years? We see these cars with well over 300k now.

      Justin

  515. Your website is amazing; thanks for all the info. I’m considering buying a used 2003 Forester. What would be the best way to figure out if I’ll have problems with the head gasket? I was planning on taking it to a mechanic anyhow. Is looking for leaks good enough? What else would be prudent to have done?

    Thanks a lot,
    Jamie

    1. Hi Jamie,

      The 2003 Forester will develop an external oil leak first, so it should be easy to spot by someone who knows what to look for if its becoming an issue.

      Hope that helps

  516. hi Justin
    one more thing……there is defintiely oil residue in my coolant overflow tank..
    this mechanic of my friends…suggested looking at the car and evaluating its over all condition before reccommending whether or not to do the gasket (seems reasonable)

    in general–do you think this is a job that is better left to a SUbaru dealer? (as opposed to a private mechanic?)

    also–just reading your prior comment to the guy with the rod bearing issue
    I have found my car to be low on oil repeatedly in the pastt= year…i thought it was because of the leaking valve cover gasket )which i fixed months back)–but it has persisted….is that related to the head gasket issue?

    and should i be concerned with having run it low on oil..as you mentioned to him?

    is there a way to check for any potential damage and factor that into whether this job is worth doing??

    sorry for such a complicated scenario!!!

    thanks!

  517. hi Justin
    Firstly–thanks for helping all us Subaru lovers out!
    I have 99 outback–which I love. (174 K)
    It started having the classic overheating symptoms a few years ago at about 120,ooo miles. I looked online and was cinvinced (probably accurately) of a head gasket problem but my local mechanic didnt want to hear about it..he tried the usual things, and after swithing radiator caps…it never overheated again..for another 40,00 miles!
    All of a sudden–the problem is back..has been intermittent and last week became pretty much consistent..For a while–i was able to stop the car–wait a bit–add coolant and it would be Ok..The other day..it persistently overheated–without coolant loss.
    So I have it parked and am considering my options.

    Let me add that the car runs great..and 8 months ago–JUST before the start of these new overheating woes..I put almost 3,000.00 into it…hoping it would last me till 200K
    (four new tires…all new brakes /rotors….4 new struts…changed leaking valve cover gasket..new cat converter….
    so the car feels great!

    Im not in a fiancial position to buy a new car…so my options are limited.
    do i buy another old Sub in the 2-4,000.00 range–that probably has MORE miles than mine but THEORETICALLY has no problems……or fix mine for 2,000.00?
    friends tell me Im crazy to put 2000.00 into car with 175,000 miles..but i like the car..and am not sure lll be getting a better one in that price range.

    Subaru quoted me 1700.00 over the phone (but they havent seen the car)
    a friend who has a mechanic he says is great–called this mecahnic–who was very familiar with the Subaru head gasket issue…and quoted him 2000.00 to do it “right” which i believe meant a head job as well and timing belt (mine was replaced arround 110K)

    sorry for the long diatribe..but what are your thoughts?
    is it wise to invest in gaskets with a car this old?

    wondering what your opinion is?
    you seem to be highly knowledgeable

    thanks!!

    1. Hi Eugene,

      “friends tell me Im crazy to put 2000.00 into car with 175,000 miles..”

      Anyone who thinks that buying a “new used” potential problem or a brand new car is a better financial decision is out there in left field. There is no argument that can ever be made for spending 30k to save 2k is a better idea for your Bank account. At the end of the day cars are worth less every year a 30k purchase will be worth Zero at some point in time.

      You are on the absolute right track, Fix what you have, you have already spent money on the other systems so you know where you stand with your car.

      The head gasket isn’t a big deal unless it goes on to long and damage happens, but you either need to stop driving it or fix it. I will stress that it should never be allowed to overheat as it can warp the heads, deck, and damage the oil control rings.

      It is better to catch it early and control your costs.

      Justin

  518. hi Justin. I brought my 2003 Outback (119k miles) in for a leaking head gasket (external) and nothing else, as the car was running well. The car never overheated and was down a qt of oil. The repair was performed by the Subaru Specialist that sold me the car at 93k miles. He did not pull the engine for the repair, but said that the heads were not warped, and the job went well (remove and replace head gaskets, camshaft oil seal, front crankshaft seal, valve cover gasket. Also, change oil and filter and coolant). Within 2.5 miles from the shop, the car misfired (check engine light flashed a few times) and moments later at highway speed a new loud rapping sound was coming from the engine at around 3000rpm. The Specialist first claimed that this rapping sound was normal after head gasket repairs, reasoning that all of the sludge was cleaned out during the repair and therefore the engine commonly sounds a little louder. He claimed the misfire was inconsequential. He eventually adjusted the valves and changed the oil but no improvement. He still insisted that the sound was normal. Reluctantly I agreed to observe the car for a while. Well, the rapping spread over a wider range of rpms and as I was on a highway planning to bring the car into another shop, the rapping turned to banging, the check engine and oil lights came on and the car had very little power. Upon inspection, the Specialist said it was rod/bearing damage; a second mechanic said the same. Vacuum line was also found disconnected. Specialist insisted that there is no possible way for the head gasket repair to directly/indirectly lead to damage. Bottom line, the car did not make any sound when I brought it in and within 10 minutes of driving the repaired car away, it was making a new bad sound, which worsened and led to a catastrophic event. Therefore, I ask what are all of the possible connections between the repairs and the engine damage? Many thanks. Joe

    1. Hi Joe,

      There is a lot of grey area here. These are some of my thoughts you wont like them all and maybe none of them, but its all I can really offer.

      1. the engine should have been pulled to do the repair, I have stated this for 20 years going back to when I was doing reseals on Loyals. There is no such thing as a quality head gasket job done in the car, only a potentially problematic one. It is not possible to control debris when done in the car, not possible to torque the heads quick enough to establish the proper clamping force evenly, not possible to truly check the deck for warp, not possible to keep crud out of the cooling jackets and oil galleys, let alone clean them out. .
      2. The rod bearing failure may be a result of the HEAD GASKET FAILURE not the REPAIR.
      3. Oil should never be allowed to run 1 quart low, the outcome is overheated internal engine components and that includes the Rod Bearings. One quart is almost 25% of the lubrication of the engine if this has happened more than once it would have weakened the rod bearings.
      4. The noise noise should have been properly evaluated upon it occurring. As it may have been able to be repaired.
      5. Unless the engine has been taken out and torn down all of the facts are not known yet, while I agree that its possible to audibly hear a rod bearing failure, other things may come up in a tear down of the lower end.
      6. It may not be anyone’s fault. A mechanical device may fail to work properly for a long list of reasons, some include human error, some not. If the rod bearing was weak, its sure going to show up right after the head gasket repair as the explosion in the cylinder will be stronger than it was with a leaking Head Gasket thus there is more pressure on the Rod bearing.
      7. It would take hours to list all of the could be’s, a clogged oil port with debris from the repair would correlate to workmanship, but its to late to prove any of that now. We have had a few situations like this over the years, never right away mind you, but a couple where a few thousand miles later there was a Rod noise, our policy has been to have the customer pay for the short block ONLY, unless the car was ran out of oil as the fluid levels is the drivers responsibility.. I feel that that has always been a good policy, and its what you should ask for.

      I know you are looking for the smoking gun, but its Auto Repair and there wont be one. I could go on for days on whats wrong with the industry both from the Vehicle operator and repair shop alike.. But that isnt going to help you.

      If you cant get some participation from whoever made the repairs than I guess the decision on who to have make the repairs was a bad one. There isn’t any way to unwind it, there is only what can you do moving forward.

      Hope that helps, not sure that it will but advising on a repair gone wrong VS an unfortunate situation that isn’t the fault of anyone but rather the result of a complex set of circumstances is a very tricky thing.

      Justin

      1. Thanks Justin –
        I wanted to understand the possibilities, and you delivered. I definitely appreciate that.
        A few thoughts/questions….
        -any interpretations of the misfire immediately following the HG job?
        -taking all of the possibilities into account, how do they align with the black and white observation of “no noise” when the car was brought in for repair and “bad noise” after repair?
        -can you please explain the short block significance and rationale?
        Many thanks
        Joe

        1. If the Rod bearing was worn as a result of lack of lubrication but able to hold up to lower cylinder pressure, then the Head gaskets are sealed resulting in a fully sealed combustion chamber and now the Rod bearing cant hold up to that new pressure and fatigues who’s fault is that?

          As far as the short block rationale? I stated if it happened here we would offer to do the repairs at the customer pays for the short block and we cover the labor, fluids and gaskets, is that what you are referring to?

          There are so many things that could have contributed to the misfire, all I am doing here is speculating on possibles causes of the misfire and Rod bearing failure.

          Justin

          1. (2003 Outback, 119k miles, EJ25 engine, VIN 4S3BH675237628482)

            Hi Justin
            After discussion, the shop agreed to participate in the engine repair and has offered to install a 2002 Outback engine EJ25 with 121k miles on it (VIN 4S3BH675X27665214). That car was in a rear-end collision, has a salvage title, an unknown history of head gasket replacement, and the engine was reportedly “tested” and deemed satisfactory. The shop would install the engine without replacing the head gaskets because they dont want to invalidate their engine supplier’s warranty. Alternatively, they would be willing to locate a used short block and install that with the most current head gasket design.
            Based on the details in this specific thread, which is the better way to move forward and why?
            Also, are there alternative repair remedies (new block, etc…) that should be considered?
            Many thanks,
            Joe

  519. I am considering purchasing a 99 Legacy Sedan with 123,000 miles and I am concerned about a head gasket failure. The current owner has only had the car for a year and said she has not replaced the head gaskets (or timing belt/water pump) and did not know if the previous owner did either.

    She said it does not overheat and runs great, however I am nervous about potential future problems and cost to repair. My questions- is there a tell tale sign to let me know if the headgasket or timing belt has been replaced by looking at the engine? This is a phaze 1 engine so by reading the formum it would be an internal leak so there would be no evidence of a coolant leak visible.

    Just looking for guidence from those with experience.

    Thanks. Great info. Brent

    1. 1999 Legacy Outback is a 2.5, a Legacy L is a 2.2 Which do you have? If it is a Sedan its probably a L? Or its an SUS.

      The timing covers need to come off to check the timing belt, and unless you know what you are looking for, it wont do you any good to look at the belt or the edges of the Head gasket.

      The best advice I have is to find a Subaru Shop where you reside, and let them do a Pre Purchase inspection.

      Justin

  520. Justin,
    I have a 2004 Legacy SW with 176,000 miles on it. I had the head gasket repair done 2/10 at 147,000. Since then, I have problems with the air conditioning and more recently with overheating. The first summer after the repair, the air conditioning was spotty. It would be working and them suddenly blow hot air. I would turn it off for a couple of minutes and then back on. It would stay on varying lengths of time and would cut out in stop and go and cruising at 55. The only thing found was a leak at the discharge line from the compressor which didn’t really solve the problem. i just lived with it. This summer, same story but on the second trip in, after really listening to what I was saying, they replaced the clutch on the compressor. That worked well, however, I began to notice that the temp gauge
    was creeping up to places that I had never seen it do and once I was sure it was going to overheat. This is a big problem for me as I show dogs and often have them in the car driving long distances to train and show. The first time it happened was on a short stop and go trip in high heat. Since then, it mainly occurs if the air has been running for more than 45 minutes. The car has been in twice and nothing has been found. There is so much that I love about the car, but between the head gasket, air conditioner and I also had the roof leak thing, I am close to giving up. Please advise,
    Mary

    1. Hi Mary,

      So the AC system is OK now?

      You probably suffered Compressor damage by trying to use the AC system with a low charge of gas and oil in the system, they do not have a high failure rate.

      As far as the overheat, it needs to be looked at by a Subaru Expert and no one else. Its possible the HG repair didn’t last,it possible it has a clogged radiator or issue with a cooling fan, thermostat, waterpump etc, I just dont have any real way of knowing with out seeing the car.

      Sorry I cant offer more, I will add that your experience with what ever car you own is always going to be in direct correlation with who ever services it.

      Justin

  521. Wow awesome site Justin, well done, thanks for all the information you have supplied.
    I have a 98 outback with 207000kms which is over heating. It has had the radiator flushed and thermostat and radiator cap changed by one company at a cost of $600, they can not work out why it is overheating. I took it to another mechanic, who believes there is an air bubble and it will need a radiator flush and the air bled out of the system cost $120 a 100% fix he says. After reading this site I don’t believe him. I also asked about getting the timing belt done at the same time he said it won’t need it as these engines have a tesioner that doesn’t put a lot of pressure on the belt! I’m not going back to him.
    Heres what happens, I top up the radiator and can run the car for 30 mins cap on, no problem I have also run it in park at 2500rpm for 10 mins, no bubbles in the overflow bottle. (I have found a small hole in the exhaust just behind the cat converter, the car idles just a little bit rough and at low rpm’s 600) fans kick in and temp gauge sits at half, but everytime! after only 2km of driving the gauge quickly rises to hot, so now I can’t even drive it to a shop. If I let it idle after rise in temp gauge and the radiator is full the fans bring the temp down to almost half, lots of water and bubbles are forced out of the overflow tank. Depending on how long I let it idle before I drive it the radiator water flowing out can be luke warm or very hot. dipstick oil looks fine, inside oil filler cap looks fine, no oil or sludge in radiator or over flow bottle, the inside of this bottle is discoloured black, but could that be the black hose which enters the bottle that seems to be perishing and braking down staining the bottle?
    Many years ago I had another brand car that overheated and I was told it had a hair line crack in the block. In my Subaru does this sound like a damaged head gasket?
    Besides me pulling it apart ( I can’t drive it to a mechanic) do you know how can I diagnose the cause?
    Can you recommend a good replacement head gasket brand and part number? as from reading this site it’s not if but a matter of when for HG failure.

    1. Owen,

      Its text book blown head gaskets on a 1st gen 2.5l.

      The comments about the tensioner not putting pressure on the belt explains why he cant figure it out. The timing belt stretches as it ages, that’s kind of real basic stuff that you learn when you first start out, it really drives me nuts to read these types of things and see that there are those in the industry that have no real factual knowledge of how the many systems operate on any car, and have no basic understanding of why things need to be done.

      A gas analyzer is needed to check for signs of exhaust gas in the cooling system, there is no other test, NONE. Just like X-rays don’t reveal muscle tissue issues but an ultrasound or MRI willl, the proper test is the only test, regardless of ease or complications in having it done.

      Because it has gone on for so long the oil control rings could be damaged, the heads or block warped as well.

      Here is what I try to explain

      If you have some sort of symptom with your personal health that your normal doctor (typically a general practitioner) doesn’t have an answer to, he or she will typically refer you to a specialist. The same SHOULD be true of your Subaru, when you take it to a generalist (someone who works on anything that comes in the door) they will be at a huge disadvantage over a specialist. You need a Subaru Specialist!

      Justin

      1. Thanks for your reply Justin. Yep after all the internet info on this you have confirmed my suspicion. Unfortunately I can’t bring it to you as I’m in Australia. I’ll search around for a specialist here, thanks again.
        Owen

  522. Hi Justin,

    I took my car into my mechanic to have the timing belt replaced at 110K. I asked them to let me know if there were any leaks, asked them twice, they said no leaks looks good. I took my car into the dealer today, 10K later from the timing belt issue, for a free oil change and they stated my headgasket is leaking. I have no funny smell, no overheating issues. I’m assuming I have some time to get the repair done? Also if I am reading the above information correctly I should also get a new battery (which I was planning on anyway because the original is still in the car although no huge corrosive issues) and get the coolant flushed? Is there anything else I should do? My car is a 2004 Forester with 116K and I’d really like to keep it for at least 300K.

    1. Heidi,

      The battery should be maintained as part of normal Vehicle service, its not an automatic replace kind of a thing. You most likely have an external oil leak from the head gaskets which is why no overheating. If you recently had the timing belt, and components done you probably wont need much else.

      Justin

  523. Also now the car seems to be fine and still pases a blOck test, shOuld I not be worried and just drive it?

    Thanks, Blake

  524. Hi Justin,

    I have a 97 legacy l wagon with 178k on it. Back In April I had the car overheat and the coolant boiled over, I put it thru a block test and it passed so I put a thermostat in it for piece of mind. I hadn’t had the car overheat again until early July after I took a Long trip I was driving around locally and the temp gauge read hot but there was no coolant loss or boil over. so I parked and let it sit for the day and didn’t have the problem again. In the meantime I had replaced the timing belt and water pump and pulleys and seals, and I also determined that the radiator wasn’t clogged or leaking. Now about two weeks ago I had driven around for maybe 20 mins and then left the car running parked in front of the garage and went inside for 5 mins and the temp gauge went up to maybe 3/4 to 7/8 and the check engine light came on. Once i got in the car the temP lowered and the fans were running. I read the code which was po152, and I researched and it said it can be due to a too strong coolant mixture or if your parked to close to something and it blocks airflow. Confirmed fixes were putting in a thermostat but I had already replaced it.

    1. The only test is with an exhaust gas analyzer looking for the presence of exhaust in the cooling system. A gas analyzer is needed to check for signs of exhaust gas in the cooling system, there is no other test, NONE. Just like X-rays don’t reveal muscle tissue issues but an ultrasound or MRI willl, the proper test is the only test, regardless of ease or complications in having it done.

      I have seen a block test kit not revel blown head gaskets time after time.

      Most likely you have a head gasket issue, you can try using your nose and smell for exhaust gas in the radiator or coolant overflow bottle, but not knowing how well you can smell, I dont know if it will do you any good.

      You cant let it overheat you will damage the engine.

      Justin

  525. Hi,

    I have an oil leak into the spark plug well of #3 cylinder and a check engine code of cyl-3 misfire. The plug wire is soaked with oil.

    My local shop says it is a head gasket problem and not a valve cover gasket problem.

    Is this possible? It seems most head gasket issues are related to coolant leaks not oil leaks.

    Thanks,
    Chris in NH

    1. The head gaskets on the phase 2 2.5l leak oil much more often than coolant actually. But wet spark plug wires are an indication of failed spark plug tube seals and not head gaskets, if your HG are leaking as well it would be a waste of money to address the spark plug tube seals now and the HG later.

      Better to budget for all of it if you can it will save you a couple of hundred dollars

      Justin

  526. Hi justin,
    i would just like to share a recent experience i had, where my subaru had lots of bubbles in the overflow resivoir, yet there was no CO2 found in the bubbles. turns out, my radiator cap was faulty, and somehow managed to let air into the coolant continuously while driving, and prevented the coolant from building pressure as well. i am relieved that what appeared to be an obvious HG issue turned out to be a radiator cap.

    1. Bubbles without exhaust odor or the presence of Hydrocarbons and or oil residue in the cooling system would just be a failed cap or something preventing the radiator cap from sealing

  527. Hi there,
    Thanks for all the great info on this issue. My car is a 2002 Outback with 142K miles on it – never had an issue except the thermostat broke around 100K….seeing all of this dialogue makes me think my car overheated due to this issue. In short, I need the head gaskets replaced. Subie is offering $500 towards the repair, netting out at $1100 at the dealership. They are also suggesting (as is Subaru Corporate) that I tend to the water pump (and oil pump?), get a new radiator, re-do the timing belt and tensioner (just recently done). I’m trying to figure out what’s best to tend to while the entire engine is out. :> Can you help? Thanks so much!! Erika

    1. Hi Erika,

      How did you negotiate the $ 500 from Subie? I have a 2003 Outback (100k miles) and probably need to do it soon or later.

      Thanks!
      Wen

    2. It is a good idea to do the timing components and the water pump along with the oil pump RESEAL while the head gasket repair is done as it keeps forward going costs down.

      Is there something the matter with the Radiator?

      Justin

  528. Hi Justin,

    Thanks for your reply. I also went to a local dealer who said that the temperature gauge position is perfect fine for subaru.

    I am above to change the timing belt on my 03 outback. Is that necessary to change all the pulleys and tensioner? I know that I can open to see if there are ok, but I really want to get the job done in one shot. From your experience, should I just change the timing belt and water pump or should I change all the pulleys and the tensioner? Thanks a lot!

    Is that normal that a 03 outback engine is much louder than 04 Sienna/03 Accord?

    Wen

  529. Hi Justin,
    Just one quick question. If a new catalytic converter
    is put on a 2000 Outback wagon, could it possibly cause an oil leak?
    I asked the mechanic about this and he sorta went
    ballistic!!

  530. I just took my subaru to a dealer and they think that the thermostat was put in wrong. Is it possible that the place I took it to put in the thermostat wrong? I just wanted to ask if it is physically possible that it can be placed into the vehicle wrong? I was told no by the people who put it in but told that it may be upside down or backwards by somebody else.

    1. If you took your car to an aftermarket non Subaru Specialist they may have put in an incorrect thermostat and installed it incorrectly. You cant really mis-install a Subaru Factory thermostat but you can a aftermarket type component, which is reason # 1 to know whats going in your Car.

      Justin

  531. I just brought a 2003 outback limited edition with 101k miles. I just noticed that the temperature gauge always stay between 1/2 to 3/4, which is higher than other cars I owned before. Is this a overheating problem or potential issue?

    What’s the timing belt change intervals for this car? I think it has not been changed.

    Thanks!

    Wenyu

  532. I have a 98 legacy outback. replaced head gasket and radiator plus a list of hoses and seals and thermostats and gaskets. 1000 miles later same problem overheating very quickly while driving and after towing home now car does the same thing all the time. Im sure the thermostat is bad now but what is causing this? I would like to take it back to the dealer who serviced it but lohmans in new jersey is gone. Jerks fixed my car but now no warranty.

    1. Hi Greg,

      Its tough to advise you without knowing the cause of the overheat, you could have a faulty thermostat, clogged radiator failed cooling fans, failed cooling fans etc. If you had repairs done at the Subaru Dealer it should still be under warranty.

      If the Subaru dealer closed go to a different one. If it was done at John Does Automotive and they closed than you may have to pay a second time, but its hard to imagine Head gasket failure 1000 miles later unless something else failed and the head gaskets failed as a result.

      An evaluation by a Subaru Expert is really whats needed until than its all just speculation

      Justin

  533. Justin

    I have a 2008 Subaru Legacy with about 60K miles. I took my vehicle on a long trip to texas from west virginia last summer and when I got back my temperature shot up real quick and then went back down. I took my car again this summer on a long trip to atlanta and when I got back the temperature again shot back up. It occasionally shoots up but it will always go back down shortly there after. I have had my thermostat and radiator replaced. I have no leaking fluids and my fluids are circulating. All of my fans and belts are working fine and my mechanic has the slightest idea what it could be. My air conditioning has been poor for a couple years now and I also seem to have some sort of air bubble trapped in there that nobody seems to be able to get out. Somebody had mentioned to me it may be some sort of sensor that is going bad. Some of the problems people are having on here sound like mine..do you have any idea? Thanks in advance and have a great day!

    Shafii

    1. I also wanted to mention that the “Check Engine” light never comes on at all during any of this. And that sometimes my A/C and heat are the same no matter where I set it.

    2. Its possible it has a small air pocket but its more likely it has a small air pocket do to a small internal head gasket leak.

      Its also possible that an aftermarket thermostat was used? Since you mention the Ac doesn’t work properly I also suspect the fans could have an intermittent issue which is common and there isn’t much I can guide you through here. The potential fan issue needs a real pro to diagnose correctly.

      Justin

      1. I used a thermostat from a local autozone dealer. Do you think that it could be a sensor by any chance? I am having it put on the local subaru dealers computer monday to see if they can find it out. If my gasket is leaking,causing that air bubble, what exactly do I need to look for and/or do to fix that? Can I fix it before it completely goes out or do I have to replace it all together?

        Thank you very much for the help!!!

        1. You should never ever ever use any thermostat other than an O.E Subaru Thermostat ever never!!!! I understand that the generic Auto parts store are convenient but there is no real value there for an import. Look here at an image of aftermarket VS O.E.

          Justin

  534. I have a 2007 outback 2.5 XT that I believe to be overheating. I have brought it to the service center three times now and they have replaced the coolant seals (two of them they told me because of being turbo) and cleaned the air filter and replaced the thermostat. They also told me the first time I brought it in that the battery was dead. Now they have told me that it is normal for a turbo engine to heat at high revs to about 225 degrees and that the gauge should read hot but not in the red. I have owned a WRX and an older non-turbo outback and non of those cars have ever read above half way on the gauge. I have been noticing that the center console flashes on and off and was wandering if this is a result of the corroded or contaminated coolant as a result of the bad battery

    1. Peter,

      The gauge should come up to a resting spot about 1/2 way and never move.

      You need to find a different shop or clear up the lines of communication as this really just doesn’t add up from where I am sitting and you may be on the verge of some very expensive avoidable repairs.

      Justin

  535. i have 2 outbacks legacy wagon wife 98 2.5

    mine 97 2.5. wife has 197000 motor pulled hgs and related

    items done at 150k. pulling the motor and doing all seals

    and items like you post many times is the only way togo.

    i have 160k.on my 97 2.5 subaru and have the typical symptoms of hgs early stage.

    use about quart of coolant every 2-3 months. slight odor

    in over flow( no oily residue). 2-3 times temp gauge

    went to 3/4 never hot, i pull over and shut off immed.

    rest 2 min and fire it backup and temp right back at 1/2

    so i suspected the thermostat and the vacc. release b/c these can be issues like you mention, esp if use non sub.
    thermostat which i would never do.

    motor will get done like the wifes when i can, ques. when the leak is this minor can minor tighten on the head bolts or a little stop leak help for 4-6 months.

    i have used that on several motors over the yrs and if very early and mild worked good, note those were usually
    cast iron motors, alum. motors and heads are more delicate. so will this work on a 2.5 sub.

    and which types of stop leak would be best. note i dont usually use this and only use small amt b/c they clog motors and radiators

    tx don

    p.s. very very good info on subarus, if anyone is in your area they would be nuts not to use your garage.

    any mechanic that understands electrolysis in the engine coolant is way beyond informed. anyone reading this site
    and thread should know imo, justin is in the top 1%. you will never appreciate a truly gifted mechanic until you have had the same problem fixed three times by an average mechanic.

    second to readers, wifes subaru 197k, that was done right
    runs as good as any new engine, almost no emissions and still does about 27 mpg. always watch your mileage keep a log any time you see a drop and you will catch most issues very early. knowledge and maintenance keeps your car healthy.

  536. Hi, I own a 2002 OB with 142k and had a coolant leak to the point where the needled creaped up to close to overheating. I added the coolant conditioner and noticed that it made a difference. Now I have noticed some oil seepage at the bottom and a drip of oil accumulating on the oil filter. I am not to familiar with Subaru’s but would this fall under a head gasket issue? I cleaned and degreased the area and found the oil pan bolts to be sludged. I also saw a drip falling on the exhaust pipe almost in the center of the engine.

    1. The conditioner is just a temporary repair, or rather not a repair just a band aid over a major flesh wound. You need to budget for the Proper repairs if you want to keep the cat for the 150k it most likely has left in its life.

      Justin

  537. I have a 2001 Outback wagon with 115k, just had timing belt, water pump replaced. Drove very little over Ohio winter, kept in garage, passed Echeck and 4 months later seemed to be very “noisy” from muffler (?) I also thought I had an oil leak. Local mechanic said it was transmission leak at filter so he replaced transmission filter and the exhaust system from catalytic converter back. Seemed less noisy, now it is really getting clunky noisy, like metal loose somewhere. Oil is down, with something still leaking on garage floor..not a ton, can’t tell if it is oil. Driven by college age daughter, less than attentive to details, wants to drive it 1400 miles back to school this fall. Car has some rust, had hatch mechanism repaired, otherwise would keep till 200k. But having just spent $2000 this past year, is it worth it? Should I go to the dealer or just try to get some trade in value?

    1. Is it better for you bank account to keep the car you have now, or to spend 30k on a new one?

      Your bank account is the only thing you should consider, unless the car no longer suits your needs.

      Justin

  538. I have a 1993 Impreza L w/ 145,000 miles and I’ve been told the head gasket is bad. Could that possibly be the reason why smoke comes from under the hood after they run it really hard during and emissions test?

  539. I have a 1999 2.5RS(SOHC EJ25). A few weeks back it popped up a P0302 code… misfire cylinder #2. I replaced the spark plug wires(had put in new plugs last summer) but the code remains. The CEL flashes occasionally which means serious misfire. The coil looks ok though. Could it be the injectors? What do I do? I love this car and am a student so I have a limited budget. Please help!

    1. I under stand budgets, but your budget has nothing to do with whats wrong I am afraid. It needs to be diagnosed or you will continue to just toss parts at it, we would figure out the cause of the misfire, there is no other way.

      Justin

  540. Hello Justin
    My wife drives a 2005 Outback with just a little over 98,000 miles on it – no signs of trouble yet.
    I am looking at a 96 Legacy for my son with the 2.2 engine, no service records so I am not sure if the head gaskets have been serviced. Was this year/model engine one that required special attention?
    Thanks for the website.
    Bill in Oviedo FL

    1. Typically the 2.2l doesnt develop head gasket issues until closer to 200k. If it has single port exhaust its possible to develop dropped valve guides in this era 2.2l as well. It will still run ok, but can set intermittent misfire codes. The misfires typically happen at the higher rpms where they go mostly unnoticed by the driver.

      Justin

  541. Hi Justin, On a different subject, I want to change the automatic transmission fluid in my 97 LGT and I’m confused by the number of ATF options available. My 4AET calls for Dexron III, there are a number of fluids compatible (Dex/Merc, Dexron VI, Domestic Multi Vehicle(?), high mileage ATF) but I prefer not to use synthetics in a mineral oil car. Subaru’s mystery oil (ATF-HP) is not an option at $12.00/L it’s way over priced.

    What do you recommend as the best ATF fluid?

    Thanks very much.

    Blair

    1. All you need is DEX 3 on a 1997 Legacy Outback

      I would not spend the money on the HP, and by the way $12.00 is way to much to pay and is about 30% over MSRP

      Justin

  542. Hi Justin ! I’ve got an 02 Forester, and I recently found a small oil leak forming under my car. Took it to the local Subaru dealer and they told me there are small leaks on both sides of the head gasket. They indicated that they would like to reseal it (I believe), and the cost would be around 1800.

    Two questions: Is this a normal step to take (resealing) and is that cost normal ? Second, as I know very little about cars, I’ve been trying to piece together information and I’m now wondering if it makes sense to reseal if there could be an issue with the head gasket down the line. Do you think a reseal would prevent a later head gasket issue, or should I simply go ahead and replace it ?

    Thanks.

    1. When the Dealer is stating reseal they are essentially telling you they will replace the head gaskets and all associated seals anf gaskets, its commonly known in the industry as an engine reseal, but it will be new parts.

      I hope that helps clear things up

      Justin

  543. Dear Justin,

    Just wanted to tell your readers how happy I am that I bought your ‘updated head gasket repair kit’ and rejuvenated my 1998 2.5L DOHC Outback. One of my gaskets failed at 202,000, which I attribute to luck and frequent oil changes with synthetic oil since my fiance bought her new. She runs smoother than ever, and the temp needle doesn’t budge in 99 deg. New Mexico stop-and-go traffic with the A/C on.

    Readers,

    Given my car’s high miles, Justin recommended resealing all external gaskets as well, replacing the water pump and all coolant hoses, plus having the heads resurfaced. The machine shop said the valves weren’t leaking at all (at 2002K!!!), so my total outlay including new radiator, coolant, oil, and spark plugs was around $1,000…. plus two weekends’ labor, for 5-10 more years of AWD bliss. That’s, what, three new car payments?

    Thanks for the excellent site and great advice!

  544. Hi Justin,

    Thank you so much for this very useful website.
    I’m considering a 2011 Subaru Outback 3.6R, and I’m really concerning this notorious HD problem that Subaru H-engine has. Do you have any info that the 3.6L H6 engine is less likely to have this problem than the 2.5L H4?

    Thanks,

    Sonny

  545. Hi, Justin,

    I am considering a leak down test, and I am consulting with you to see whether it is necessary.

    I have a Forrester 2003 which blows the headgasket twice. The first time is in 2006 at 60k. The local dealer changed it under warranty. After merely 40k, it blows again last year. In order to get compensation from Subaru, I had to go to the same local dealer to change it. And they gave me 1 year warranty.

    Recently, I notice an external oil leak again before the warranty expires. The dealer said it is oil drain plug issue but not headgasket. And change it. Indeed, it stops the leaking.

    However, obviously, I am still concerned. I am considering to do a leak down test at a different local workshop. Do you think it worths it? And is the leak down test on Subaru different from the one on other cars and need some experience specifically on Subaru? As it appears that the local workshop may not have a whole lot experience on it.

    Thanks.

    Guangbo

    1. After a more careful reading, I guess I should consider hydrocarbon test in the coolant instead of a leak down. But still, do you think this diagonosis is necessary?

      1. The problem with a leak down test is that expansion from heat is what finally causes the loss of seal, you cannot duplicate this with a leak down test as you really can duplicate the explosions in the cylinder and the temperature created . This is why a HC test is the single most accurate way of going about looking for a headgasket leak in a Subaru.

        Justin

  546. Hi Justin,

    Thank you so much for having this excellent article and for continuing to answer questions! I am looking to purchase my first car soon, and I am seriously considering a 2002 Legacy Outback with 108,000 miles on it. The dealer is a small repair shop/used car business and he said that he just sent the car to a subaru repair shop to have the head gaskets and time belt replaced. I have noticed a smell of gasoline when idling during the test drive and I mentioned it to him. There was also a loud whine while accelerating on the highway, which he said is a usual thing for a Subaru engine. He said that if it *didn’t* whine there was a problem.

    I just wanted to pass along these few things and make sure that I am looking at a solid purchase with what he said he has done. Should I be concerned about the quality of the repairs done if I still smelled a strange odor similar to gas when idling? (It happened twice when switching drivers to let my dad get a feel for the car.)

    Thank you so much for everything! This site has really helped me learn more about what I might be getting into.

    Dorin

    1. The gas smell could be a leaky fuel line under hood but would require an inspection to verify this.

      Hard to comment on the whine without hearing it, it might be wise to have a pre purchase inspection performed by a Subaru guy in your area, it might well be the cheapest insurance you will ever buy.

      Justin

      1. The dealer said that a high pitched whine while accelerating is supposed to happen with Subaru boxer engines. Is that complete bull-crap?

  547. Great site and information. I am thinking at buying a 2001 Legacy with only 47,000 miles. The dealer received it as a trade and just replaced the head gaskets before putting it on the lot. It is very clean and beautiful for a 10 year old car and I want it. I am just very nervous because I don’t know how much over heating was happening. The previous owner is a older retired lady.

    I can’t decide if I should feel better knowing the gaskets have already been replaced. How do I know that the replacement gaskets are better quality than the originals? Should I expect to replace these again around 100,000 miles when I need to replace the timing belt?

    Thanks!

    1. Hi Chris,

      Typically the 2nd gen 2.5l would have been an external Leak and may have not ever overheated. As far as the gaskets being better quality that’s really a difficult thing to determine. We have had cars that we repaired years ago that we still see and have no signs of leaks, I sincerely hope that is your experience as well.

      Justin

  548. I would like to buy a 2011 Forester. Does this year have the same head gasket issues?

    Also, I live in northern Alberta where winter temperatures can be extremely cold. Will this be an issue with this vehicle regarding head gaskets?

    1. Harry,

      Its not practical to advise you on whether or not the 2011 Forester will develop HG issues for about 5 more years. Its just to early to know.

      Justin

  549. Thankyou for all the great info, im just a little confused, ive got an 03 MY04 2.5 had they fixed the problem by this stage?

    Great work.

  550. Hi Justin,

    I’m so thankful to find this site. I’ve been given my mother’s 2002 Impreza and it’s had the crazy intermittent overheating issue. Did the thermostat, no difference. Since my mom is very NOT a car person I have no idea how long this has been going on. Before I spend the money and do the HG’s what other collateral damage might I be in for?

    Many thanks,
    ~Bonnie

    1. Its just not possible to know for sure until its apart, if its overheated once or twice you are mostly ok, if its been overheated significantly many times it most likely will consume oil after the repairs, or have a warped block.

      Justin

  551. Justin, Thanks for all the great information on this site. I just noticed today that the radiator reservoir on my 2007 2.5i is empty. I checked the radiator and it is full. Should I just fill the reservoir or is this indicative of something more going on?

    -Ryan

    1. Just a 50/50 mix of Subaru Coolant is all thats needed, but either the coolant level is not being topped off properly at your oil change intervals or you have a leak.

      Justin

  552. Justin,

    I have a 1998 Subaru Outback 2.5L DOHC, a couple of years ago I put a used 2001 engine in it. After 15,000 miles the head gaskets started leaking, I put a set of aftermarket gaskets in and now we are having head gasket issues again after another 15,000 miles. I have purchased a set of head gaskets from Subaru dealer along with coolant conditioner, head bolts and a new thermostat. It was also recommended to machine the heads. My questions are 1) do you feel it is a necessity to use the new bolts and 2) should I have the heads machined. I am unsure about the machining since this used engine has never been hot since we have installed it.

    1. Hello Scott,

      Most likely the after market gaskets are pretty close to what you are buying from Subaru, We sell a Head gasket kit with a guide and provide tech support, we have helped many many Subaru Owners tackle this repair themselves.

      The answer to your questions are if the heads are warped they need to be machined, if the bolts are stretched they need to be replaced.

      Justin

  553. Hi Justin. Great resourse. I have a 2002 outback which has developed the HG problem. I’m going to have them replaced. I’m not sure what is the best option as far as new HG’s is concerned. Are the current genuine Subaru HG’s up to scratch or should I be using a non genuine HG? I’ve read that the Six Star HG’s are good. I’ve also read that the genuine HG’s are the way to go. I’m in Australia and confused.

    platty.

    1. Hello Platty,

      There are 2 sides of every argument and differing opinions, Subaru had never offered a MLS gasket for the SOHC engine either in production or as a replacement gasket despite all the issues in the 1999 to 2009 SOHC 2.5l. I know of no one that thinks the Subaru Gasket is ” The Way To Go”

      But in 2010 Subaru finally switched to a MLS gasket and put it in the 2010 Outback this gasket is not backwards compatible with the older models due to a Block and Cylinder head design change.

      If you want to do it again use the Subaru Gasket, if not Use a MLS Gasket such as the Six Star.

      Hope this helps

      Justin

  554. Hi Justin,
    I have a 2004 Legacy 2.5 cylinder and am needing the headgasket replaced with only 66k miles and have done regular maitenance on the car. This seems like low miles to get a headgasket problem. Sounds like there are a lot of headgasket problems, is a recall being considered? How long can I expect my next one to last?

    Thanks,
    Roseann

    1. Recalls are typically about safety items and not about gasket leaks. WWP-99 was a Campaign that addressed 1999 to 2002 Vehicles only, Subaru in some cases has participated in the costs but no Recall.

      Justin

  555. Hello Justin,
    Thank you for maintaining this Q&A forum for Subaru owners. I own a 1998 Subaru Legacy Outback and recently learned about the achilles heal (head gaskets) of the 2.5L engine (1st generation). The engine currently has 140k miles and appears to have some gunk in the coolant reservoir. It appears that this issue is terminal for this group of engines. The local Subaru dealer is currently replacing HG three times per week. Not sure if the synthetic oil I’ve used has slowed down the HG break down.

    What is the range of miles have you seen before the head gasket goes? Does it happen gradually or quickly? If slowly, what should I watch for?

    Thanks again for your insight.
    Luke

    1. Luke

      The range is huge and the symptoms can range as you read in the article and follow up questions, whats important is the state of your car. If you can smell any signs of exhaust in the coolant overflow bottle its time now, it will only cost more and be twice the frustration if you let overheating become the symptom to act upon.

      Justin

  556. Justin-
    After reading your website, I am tempted to drive my car up to you (from Portland) for repairs.

    I have an ’07 Outback that I just took in for a 60k servicing. The mechanic told me that the head gasket is starting to leak. He wouldn’t get specific with me regarding how bad the leak was or how urgent the repair. When I asked him he told me I should budget for it. Which didn’t address my questions on time line, mileage, or urgency. He told me the repair would be $1600-$1800, or $2500 if I did the timing belt at the same time.

    Can you help me understand how urgent this is, if I need to be restricting my driving in the interim in any way, and whether those prices are appropriate? How much would it cost to do these repairs at your shop? (I really am tempted to just drive up to you.)

    Thank you!

    1. Hi Molly,

      I cant honestly answer the level of urgency with out seeing the car. If its just oil you have time, if its coolant or internal you do not have much time.

      The prices sound about right, I would also suggest all of the timing components, if you make the repairs, the repairs are done well you wont have any reason to go into the engine for another 105k (next timing belt replacement) and you wont feel like you car is in the shop all the time.

      Sorry I cant offer more, its just that there are a multitude of factors and I would hate to advise you incorrectly. What I think would have been helpful (which is something we do here for our customers) is if the shop had invited you to see the leak, so you understand what is going on if its oil, if its coolant, when should it be done and why.

      Justin

  557. Hello-
    I have a 1998 Subaru Forester with the 2.5l engine. It now has 196,000 miles and needs a head gasket. I have a couple of questions before I get the work performed:
    – I plan to use the Subaru coolant but do I need the coolant additive since my engine is a 1st gen? If it doesn’t help the failure mode of the 1st gen engines – I can only see problems later with clogging of the radiator.
    – Did Subaru improve the 1st gen gaskets? What did they change? Seeing as they designed this engine to start with and created this problem can I trust their “new” gasket or should I go with an aftermarket company that designs gaskets for a living? (and will even warranty them for several years)
    – My car had the front cam seals done 10K ago – Are there rear cam seals and should I do them now when it is all apart?
    Your website here is an awesome resource and I thank you for your extremely concise and complete answers – before reading it I was ready to dump my Forester and sell it as is and walk away. The mechanic I found has done more than a dozen of these head gaskets and also says that once done they are good to go – I hope you are both right ! 🙂

    1. Hi Matt,

      The coolant additive does not apply to your vehicle.

      Subaru has an updated gasket for the DOHC that is the Fix.

      The DOHC 2.5l never came with the updated gasket in production, by the time the gasket was out the engine configuration changed. Thew ONLY way to repair it is with the Updated gasket, anything else wont last. We sell a kit made up of the best parts for the repair.

      You should not reuse your seals.

      Justin

  558. Hi Justin,
    Thank you for your great website, it has bbeen super helpful! I am looking at purchasing a 2000 Subaru Outback wagon with 84,000 miles on it for $5,500. I am having a Subaru only shop look at it to see if everything is sound, SubaPros, in Denver. I understand that I may need a timing belt replacement and head gaskets in the next year or 2, but I want to see if you think this a a good value for the vehicle? I have a 2008 Forester that I’m selling to get out of my car payment. It’s hard to find used Subaru’s here in Denver!
    Thank you,
    Cristen

  559. Justin, I have a 2003 Outback Limited with 63k miles – head gaskets leaking oil, dealer says I need them replaced. I called SOA to see if they would assist – they’ve offered $500 toward the repair which I’ve been quoted $1700 for the HG’s. I will most likely do the timing belt, thermostat and water pump as well. Is this reasonable or should I push back at SOA? I have all records, serviced at a Subaru dealer for the life of the car…thanks!

      1. Thanks Justin – I’m taking the $500 and getting it repaired today. I’m doubtful I’ll get a better offer and can’t hold off on the repairs. While they’re in there, I’m having thme take care of all the belts, hoses, therm and water pump. I’ll hopefully be good to go for quite awhile, though not enthused about this failure.

  560. hi, i have a99 forester with 81000 miles and i just got the HG and timing belt replaced. water pump tensioner was inspected and coolant was changed.2 days later i popped the hood and the top rad hose was compressed. i undid the rad cap, it decompressed then went on my way. next day it was the same. under some advice from a friend i disconnected upper rad hose inspected it, topped off the fluid, reattached hose and ran the engine with rad cap off to purge any air. i ran it for 10 min or so and there is still air bubbling out about every 30 seconds or so. is this related to the HG????? or do i need to have it professionally purged with one of those funnels??…oh and also replaced the rad cap just to be safe..ive watched the car cool and its definitely sucking fluid from the expansion tank back into the radiator.also when i topped up the coolant from the upper rad hose the coolant came out of the radiator itself. the car was still hot so is it possible the thermostat was still open allowing coolant to pass backwards from engine into the radiator???whats the next step thanks in advance ps engine has not overheated and the heat still works.

    1. Dillon,

      I would suspect the rad cap in the event that a upper hose is collapsed, but since you have already done that, It needs to be looked at locally. Its possible the rad cap you purchased is a cheap imitation or is defective, someone with a radiator cap tester could test the component for you.

      I dont know if the thermostat was replaced with the HG repair? If it was, was an aftermarket thermostat used? A clogged radiator, air pocket from a in proper repair, and a defective radiator cap are all possible causes.

      Sorry I can offer more, there just isnt enough information at this time.

      Justin

  561. I have a 2004 Forester with only 55,000 and needed a head gasket. Cost 2,100 from dealer, they replaced the timing belt as well. Very disappointed with the Subaru. Thinking about trading it in next year. I had hoped it would last me several more years. Since the HG seems to be a serious problem with Subaru I think they should consider some type of recall or give folks a break on repair

    1. Hi Lynda,

      Typically the idea behind paying for repairs is because you plan on keeping it for a few years. If the HG repairs have been made you should expect it to last for a while as long as they were done correctly, its not a sign that the whole car is falling apart and should be traded in before something else happens.

      You can call 1 800 Subaru 3 and see about recovering some of your expense, if the Dealer service department didn’t already go to bat for you.

      Justin

  562. looking at a 2003 Limited Outback with 100k. What are the first repairs needed with this kind of mileage? The car is mint on the interior/exterior.

  563. Hi! I love, love, love this forum. My 1998 Outback succumbed to the HG issue. I did not fix. She had 180k on her. Time for a new car. 80 miles from my home in Long Island, NY, I found a 2002 Impreza 2.5rs with 135k on her. She was sold to me by a former Subaru mechanic who buys and fixes subarus and also gives a 6 month warranty on the sale (anything breaks–for the most part–including HG) he fixes. Anyway, the car I purchased at 135k had HG’s replaced, Engine removed and totally resealed, Cat converter replaced, New clutch, timing belt, water pump, thermostat, brakes(rotors and pads), tires, all fluids flushed, filters, oil changed and inspection. So—after all that– what should I expect to go on the car? I had her looked over by my mechanic and they said she seemed to be in good condition–but you know, it’s a Subaru. What should I start saving for?

    Liz

    1. Hi Liz,

      The head gaskets are the typical things on that era Subaru , if thats been addressed it should be pretty reliable going forward.

      Little things can and will come up, but as a general Rule the Head gaskets are the typical thing we see, the rest is really on a case by car basis.

      Justin

      1. Thank you Justin! I figured as much. I am keeping my fingers crossed. I basically have a new car! I just ordered my NYS vanity plate: HEDGASKT. I’ll probably get a lot of laughs out of that one. All and all, I am happy with my car and hope to have her at least another 100k.

        Liz

        1. Yes I saw your FB post. I am sure you will get a lot of laughs out of that one. It would actually be funny to be a “fly” in the car behind you as people who are unaware of the issue are trying to figure out what it means.

          Justin

  564. hi, im looking at 99 forester 2.5 and it has 81000 miles on it and the place im buying it from said he was going to replace the HG and timing belt. is it worth 6000$. also looking at a 98 with 67000 and also replaced HG for 5800$. my 95 legacy with 210000 runs great but the body is rusting out….thanks in advance

  565. Very informative thread. Long-time Subaru driver here. Had a ’96 Impreza Outback that lasted till 170,000 miles, which was replaced by a 2007 Impreza Outback Sport that was purchased new & that I adore. Best car I ever owned. I should mention that we do use one of the local dealers for maintenance/repairs & have been quite happy with them. Their Subaru mechanic is very knowledgable & experienced with Subarus, is a very nice guy; so we trust him and them. I read what you have said about dealers & it makes sense, but we have no independent Subaru repair places here, and prior to finding these guys we simply could not find a good mechanic.

    OK, here’s our issue: My wife’s car is a 2002 Forester S model with 103,000 miles. The car was originally purchased by us at an auto auction back in 2007 with about 60,000 miles on it, so we really don’t know it’s history prior to that. It was financed & we still owe $3000 on it.

    There has always been a “ticking” sound to the engine that our mechanic assured us is nothing. I know that the 2002 is going to be a creakier car than my 2007, but I always got the feeling that it just wasn’t the greatest car, probably because it just felt a lot “looser” than my ’07 Outback. Both of our cars have the oil changed at the recommended intervals

    We had been smelling a burning rubber smell in out ’02 for a while but there was nothing visible leaking in the engine or on the floor of our garage. We brought it in to the mechanic thinking it was going to be something minor & he told us that it needed a head gasket and that the repair was going to be around $1500. Considering that the car was almost 10 years old, had over 100,000 miles on it, and always seemed to be a bit creaky, I thought that this was just the beginning of an endless stream of problems that may start to take place. So being strategic, we thought maybe the $1500+ would be better spent towards a newer used Forester – maybe something like a 2007-2009.

    So we did some research & the prices for the 07-09 were pretty high, and of course the trade in value for our 2002 in need of a head gasket was quoted at $2000 by the dealer, even though we still owe $3000 on it. So not having he trade in value is making the upgrade of a newer model much more expensive than we thought.

    So my question is: if my wife likes her car more or less, is it worth it to pay the $1500+ to fix it? A friend pointed out that we could fix it and then get a better trade-in value towards the newer Forester – but after reading some of the posts here, I’m thinking maybe just keep the ’02 if history has shown that it is reliable after a HG replacement.

    We really don’t know what to do & any insight you could offer would be most welcome. Thank you!

  566. I own a 2000 Subaru Legacy Outback. It started losing oil, so I took it in and they said I could either get some major repairs done (sorry, don’t specifically remember what) or just keep an eye on the oil and add as needed. It’s been been needing a quart every two weeks. It started making noise last Thursday and died completely the next day. Could later start it but it sounded bad so did not run it. Got it towed. Shop says I need a new engine. Hasn’t seized up yet but was out of oil. I don’t understand what made it so suddenly lose all its oil. Could I have prevented this? Are there specific questions I should be asking this mechanic? Getting a second opinion requires another tow – any reason to do that?

    1. Hi Barb,

      Typically the Subaru engine will start using oil as a result of the oil rings becoming worn or collapsing, this isn’t to common and I am guessing since you mentioned expensive repairs were needed, the other things that cause oil consumption such a s the PCV system or fuel trim issues are not that expensive. I want to point out its typically lack of maintenance over a long period of time that causes worn or collapsed rings.

      Hind sight is 20/20 but when it was realized it was consuming oil and needed repairs the oil really needed to be checked daily. It isnt that it suddenly lost all of its oil its that a component (most likely a Rod bearing) gave out do to lack of proper lubrication. A engine traveling at free way speeds or just higher RPMS needs a full crankcase, where a engine at lower speeds may survive lower oil levels, not that its a good idea just that it may survive.

      I am sure what the shop is saying is that there is no oil reading on the dipstick not that its empty. It often spoken that way no oil on the dipstick is interpreted as no oil in the engine especially on a tow in with engine damage.

      Hope that helps, and sorry to hear about the engine trouble

      Justin

  567. Justin,

    Thanks, as usual for your great website – I’ve been looking at it for a while. I have a 2006 Impreza 2.5i with about 79k on it. Back at about 70k, one of the techs at the dealer that I brought it to mentioned that there was a bit of oil leaking onto the cross-member, but said that it was just something to watch for the time being. I watched the temp gauge, and checked my fluid levels/checked for any signs of an internal leak and everything seemed fine. At the 75k service, the tech mentioned a bit of antifreeze, but still said it was negligible and just something to keep an eye out for. All of this being said, I do trust this dealership, as they have been really forthright and reasonable about the service and work that needs to be done. The tech who talked to me is someone that I know has worked on Subarus for a long time.

    Fast forward to the present, I noticed a bit of oil on the ground after my wife left for work. Not a great quantity, but obviously enough to leave some behind. I called Subaru & the dealer and talked to them about the situation, and after an assessment it sounds as if they are going to cover a substantial portion of the repair.

    However, I saw above that you mention a higher failure rate when the dealer does these repairs. I would rather not have to go through this again in 12k miles. Can I do anything to ensure that they do a good job at the dealer? Or esp. because it is going to be a somewhat covered repair am I doomed to their using cheap parts and not pulling the engine? I might be able to afford to look a gift horse in the mouth and finance a $3000 HG repair at a private shop at the moment – but would rather not (and don’t really know where I would go to do that). I’d rather pay a little extra at the dealership and ensure they did it right.

    Any insight? Thanks Again!

    1. Hi Ryan,

      You can see from the posts under this article from drivers who have had limited mileage after repairs done at the dealer level. I can share with you that regardless of paying extra it really wont change the outcome. If a short cut kind of a guy is making the repairs then thats where you are at with it. I want to stress that there are good people at the Dealers, but the industry is set up for profit not craftsmanship or any combination of the two. I am a fan of a good Tech at a reputable independent Subaru shop making repairs, and because the Independents have to work 10 times as hard for each customer to obtain and than retain their customers, I really like that situation better than what I have seen through the years at the Dealership. The same does not apply at a general auto repair shop with a non involved owner. I would choose the dealer over that circumstance every time as well.

      Think of the Dealer as McDonald’s, or even a Darden type franchise such as the Red Lobster, and a good Independent Shop as a smaller family owned place you would go for a great Steak or Seafood dish if you knew you really wanted a great meal rather than just not cooking at home.

      I want to stress that my advice only applies if there is a good Subaru shop near you, and the Dealer that would be making the repairs is the norm and not an exception.

      Having said all that I do understand the money part of this situation as well, but I truly advise on what I think offers the most value but if we are talking about a 2k difference that could be a hard pill to mentally swallow. I think based on what you outlined the dealer seems like they would do the best job they could for you and I doubt it would only last the warranty period those tend to typically be the ones done for 100% warranty as the tech is in “I Do not car mode”.

      I Hope that helps

      Justin

  568. Hi,

    thanks for the great info.
    I’m looking to buy a 1996 Subaru Legacy Outback with around 150.000 miles on it.
    Could you please tell me what signs of trouble i should look for before buying? The owner says he has all the service records available so can you tell me how often does the oil need to be replaced regularly? (you said 3000 miles first few months after buying it, but what is the normal period?)

    you said the sign of head gasket failure is oil residue in the coolant, but i assume that is not visible if the coolant has been changed recently right? also, oil leaks may be wiped? are there other signs to look for?

    thank you,
    Adi

    1. Hi ADI,

      After you have owned it and know if it uses oil after a few hundred or thousand miles than you can start formulating a maint plan based on how you use the car and how the car “behaves”

      I dont belove in 7000 mile oil changes and have seen the very unfortunate results when drivers think thats a good idea. It will work for a newer car for the first period of its life but will take years and miles off of its life just like if you dont take care of your self.

      We have the ability to look at the edges of the gasket and determine if they have been done. We would use an exhaust Gas Analyzer to look for signs of exhaust in the cooling system. If you have those same abilities then you can perform that type of inspection as well, if not than yes you are limited to what you have already mentioned and may miss one that someone is trying to hide. Just like the extent of my medical testing is taking my temperature, from there its time to see the Dr. if I suspect something is wrong.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  569. Justin,

    I have a 2002 Legacy GT wagon with just over 90k on it, it gets a mixture of stop and go and longer freeway trips. I am a VW Master Mechanic and have performed all of the scheduled maintenance on the car since new and it has had nothing but synthetic oil used in it since break in. It developed an oil leak from the right head at around 70k and I new from doing some reading that this was most likely a head gasket but figured that I could live with it for a while until I got around to doing the 90k service. At around the 85k mark I noticed that the coolant bottle would be empty after a thousand miles or so but saw no signs of leaking or contamination of the oil. 2 weeks ago I was in the car with the wife driving, we had just come off of the freeway and where sitting at a stop light (with the AC running)when suddenly we had some vapor coming out of the AC vents and saw the temp spiking. I immediately shut off the AC and turned on the heater full blast and had her pull over to the side of the road and shut the car off. we let the fans run to cool the temp down to normal while I checked for any blown hoses or radiator leak and found nothing leaking. once the car had cooled we drove it 2 blocks to home and parked it.

    Next morning I inspected the car a bit more thoroughly and found that it was down about a half gallon of coolant and the oil in the crankcase was slightly milky.

    Having read through all of the above posts I noticed that coolant in the oil was not a common symptom of the HG failing (as it is in so many other engines) and am now concerned that the damage is more likely a cracked head or block. Is this assessment correct?

    The car is in generally good shape otherwise and I would prefer not to have to buy a new car. I have done some checking around here in So Cal and can not find an Independent Subaru Garage that has a good reputation, so will likely wind up borrowing some garage space at my folks house (I live in an apartment and cannot make the repairs there) doing the repairs myself.

    If as I suspect this is not simply a case of blown head gaskets, do you think I would be better off going with a Subaru Short Block? I have already searched around locally and cannot find a source of good used/rebuilt heads and the dealer wants $445 each for a new bare head!
    Of course if the block is cracked then I don’t have much choice…..

    Aloha, Ken

    1. Hi Ken,

      Yes if you have a milkshake most likely you have something beyond just a gasket issue I am afraid. I want to stress milkshake oil and not just some condensation on the dipstick and oil cap.

      If you can handle the down time I would just get it apart before ordering anything. Its to complicated and expensive to either order everything then try to return what you dont need or wont want to pay for once you realize its ok.

      I would send the heads to be pressure checked and if ok than just re use them ensuring that they are of course also flat. If you are unable to find a major gasket failure and the heads check out ok than yes plan on a Block. For your 2002 Gt, Subaru offers what is called a Hybrid engine (no not electrical) consisting of a reman short block plus a oil pump, oil pan, pick up tube, rear main seal, updated sep plate and a new Water pump. Its a great deal for the end user in my opinion. If it overheated significantly its possible the oil rings collapsed anyways BTW. Its really difficult to pressure check the block, I would doubt any local machine shop would be set up for it and could get it wrong. If you need heads I would change the whole tactic and consider looking for a used engine to reseal. Based on the price of buying bare castings from Subaru and then doing a valve job. You could consider this route any ways. Timing is everything we will be selling by the summer Reman engines (short and Long blocks) we are in the process of building a clean room for assembly.

      Keep us in mind when buying parts we have a good HG kit with a MLS gasket for your application and do offer a repair guide.

      Hope that helps and good luck to you!

      Justin

  570. Justin,

    Excellent website!

    We are on our 5th Suby, beginning with an 84. As I recall, it had a tire-burning 62hp, but we had the optional hill-climber foot petals! A couple of 80’s GL’s, and more recently a couple of 90’s Legacy’s complete the collection. All excellent vehicles, and uniquely designed, there’s no direct replacement on the market today.

    Back in the early 2000’s, I was involved with flying ultralight aircraft (Trikes). Subaru engines were, and are currently, a popular replacement/custom powerplant. I can recall a Forum post from a pilot regarding the head gasket issues with these motors. He said that most problems were caused by air bubbles, and that they had engineered and installed some sort of air release valve in the cooling system(s) of their Suby powered aircraft, and that had eliminated the problem. *Any thoughts on this??

    A couple of non-head gasket related questions, if I may:

    *Is there a way to definitively identify an “interference” 2.2l
    engine from the “non-interference” version, using only external clues?

    *Factory recommended replacement interval for the timing belt on the 2.2l is 60k, and 105k on the 2.5l. Why the difference?

    Thanks…

    1. Hi Rod,

      I really cant speak to the Aircraft versions of the Subaru engine. There is no real problem with air pockets in the Subaru Automobile version of the 2.5l being a main contributor to the Head gasket issue.

      It is possible when servicing the cooling system to not get all of the air out if you don’t do a good job of purging the air out of the cooling system and have air in the cooling system do some damage however.

      The 2.2l if California emissions equipped had a interval of 105k on the timing belt and there is a different part number as well all other 2.2l up until 1998 had a 60k interval, when the Subaru made a design change to the 2.2l in 1999 it also went to a 105k interval as well. The reason behind the 60k interval up until 1998 for non California and 105k for California is complicated and was a California Rule first, in terms of the 105k interval being a requirement if you want to sell a car in the state. CARB correctly has recognized that a worn or stretched timing belt can affect the level of emissions and that fear of breakage is only a part of the reason to replace.

      You can pull the valve cover off of a 1996 to 1998 2.2l and if it has mechanical lash adjusters it will be an interference type engine. I know no other way of quickly figuring it out and being absolute in the findings.

      Hope this helps

      Justin

  571. Have you had any experience with graphite head gaskets on the 2.5 dohc? and you sell the 6 star for the sohc but not the dohc what gives?
    thanks this is helping me a ton and hopefully make the correct choices. thanks in advance.

    1. Hello Scott,

      The 1995 and 1996 2.5 as well as the 2.2l up until 1999 were a composite graphite type gasket. The Graphite type gasket was never available to purchase from Subaru for the 1995 and 1996 2.5l as far as I can remember as in 1997 they went to a MLS type gasket.

      As far as why we use the Six star for the SOHC and the Subaru Gasket for the DOHC is Subaru doesn’t make a MLS gasket for the SOHC, we have never had a comeback as a result of a gasket defect on a DOHC , I have been using them since 1999 why would I ever change from that. Just like at this time since I have had good success with the Six star in the SOHC if Subaru offered a MLS gasket for the SOHC tomorrow I wouldn’t switch to it. When you are offering a warranty and want to make the best repairs you can, you find out what works and you stick with it! Its not that I dont think the 6 star would hold up in the DOHC its that I have such a good track record with the Subaru gasket I wouldnt change unless I had a compelling reason to do so.

      Justin

  572. im buying a 1996 subaru outback with 245,000 for $900 do you think its worth it? i drove it.. theres no noises or leaks. do you think i can get much more out of this car mileage wise?

    1. Hi Brian,

      I really just dont know form here, a general statement is that the car should last over 300k, but I dont know if the car we are taking about is a candidate to do so but that is usually our expectation of the car.

      Justin

  573. Hi Justin. thanks for your site it has answered alot of questions for me. I just replaced the HGs on my 97 Outback 2.5l. w/194k. Head gaskets were probably bad for 4 years before I bit the bullet and dove into the repair. During that time the car was driven infrequently, maybe 12k miles. Anyway after the repair everything was great until 500 miles post repair,the car started running rough and losing power especially acellerating, and the check engine light came on. I have a suspicion that all that coolant blowing thru the exhaust system, car looked liked a mosquito fogger this past winter, might have fried the catalytic converter. What do you think? If the converter needs to be replaced do I have to do both? And finally is there any way I can test the converter. I am planning on taking the car to the dealer for diagnostics tom. but would like to do the work myself

    1. Hi Doug,

      Its hard to say from here, did you check the surfaces to make sure they were flat and not warped?

      Its possible that something was damaged as a result of waiting to long to make repairs, or it could be in the repair it self. Not knowing what parts you used and or your repair method its difficult to say for sure what happened or what could have occurred. If you used the Subaru Gaskets, followed the torque procedure, did not do the repair in the car, checked the surfaces for warp, made sure the surfaces were at 50 RA or better and clean the repair should have been fine. If any of what I just mentioned wasn’t done then the problem is there most likely.

      I don’t think to converter is causing your issue, but may in fact have suffered as a result of whats going on. You can use a infrared thermometer and see what temperature readings you are at, you can do a back pressure test if you have a back pressure gauge. Those are 2 ways you would look for a clogged catalytic converter.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Thanks Justin. I was very careful with the repair. I did pull the engine, used Subaru parts, used copper spray and the proper torquing procedure, replaced the timing belt, water pump and idlers while I was in there. Also I did have the heads machined. I did stop by an auto parts store and they told me the code was for the exhaust syatem not any of the sensors but that was all the info they gave me. Going to the dealer and hopefully they will give me a better picture.
        Thanks
        Doug

      2. Justin,

        Went to the dealer yesterday. They pulled up codes for a misfire on 2,3 and 4….uh, oh. Thought it might be the coil-nyet. Started worying when the tech started quizing me about how I had reassembled the cam etc. Oh Boy. I passed the quiz, though and we replaced the wires. Viola, problem solved. Car runs better than it has in a long time. Service department and tech were great. They spent alot of time with me and didn’t even charge for the wire install. Thanks for all your help. You have a great site.

        Doug

  574. Hi Justin,

    I just picked up a used Subaru Forester from ’03 with 75k miles (good!), but a headgasket that is known to have some seepage going on (bad). There is a faint burning smell in the vents, but the car otherwise is performing fine at the moment. The advice I received from a Subaru mechanic who checked before the purchase was that I should take care of it (obviously), but that he’s also seen Subaru’s with similar seepage run for 100k miles or more without needing to be replaced. I talked the dealer down with the headgasket issue on the table and pulled the trigger, knowing I would need to do the work and get out ahead of problems. My questions:

    1-I am hoping to take care of it within a month (cashflow reasons). Two part question:
    a. Is there any particular type of driving I should refrain from to avoid exacerbating the situation?
    b. Vent smell, tailpipe exhaust color, temperature gauge, anything else I should keep an eye on for red flags of a worsening condition?

    2-Is it worth purchasing an extended warranty to cover this repair and any future tweaking that may be required to resolve the issue? In your experience, is there a particular severity of seepage/failure required for many of the warranties out there to kick in?

    3-Your shop is a little too far for me, can you recommend any shops in Olympia ? 🙂 No problem if that’s outside the scope of the site.

    Thanks for the help and being a good beacon for those who want a long lasting Subaru!

    -p

    1. Hi Patrick,

      No shop suggestions I am afraid, all you can do is proceed with caution while you are budgeting for the repairs. Keep up on the fluid levels and pay attention for any large changes in coolant level in the coolant overflow bottle.

      Most after market warranties do not cover the HG repair if it was present prior to buying the warranty, meaning if you bought the warranty and 1 month later tried submitting a claim it could be denied as a pre existing condition, just food for thought.

      Justin

  575. I have a 2003 Legacy GT with 91k miles. It has a head gasket leak of antifreeze. Took it to someone who recommended the Blue Devil stop leak. Part of the directions is to replace the thermostat but found getting to it is far beyond my skill set. Just read that you do not recommend the stop leak so I guess I’m fortunate I didn’t do it. What are the common dealer fixes regarding this issue? My mechanic also said that the water pump and timing belt will need replaced but he said I have time as they are typically not replaced till around 105k

    1. Hi Chip,

      I would not suggest the brand you have mentioned. I cant stress this enough and it is lost all the time, Subaru suggested and still does suggest a coolant system conditioner/ stop leak to PREVENT head gasket leaks not repair gaskets that are already leaking , once you have a leak there is nothing short of replacing the head gaskets that should be attempted.

      Justin

  576. Hey Justin! I have a 98 Outback Legacy Wagon with about 219k on her. I have been aware of a slow oil leak, not sure where it is leaking from. Occasionally, when stopped there is smoke coming from under the hood, with no other problems. I also have the occasional overheating issue, it will drive fine for weeks and then all of a sudden, its overheating on me. Now we have noticed the smell of coolant, again occasionally.

    We live in a rual area with no Subbie dealers even close and unfortunately, our local shops have been of no help in diagnosing this. We have changed thermostats, coolant flushed and burped, etc. We are all pretty much guessing that it is the Head gaskets.

    Luckily I have a good friend who is going to do the repair of the head gaskets for us, but I have some questions, since he is not a subbie mechanic…

    Is there anything else that should be done at the same time?

    What else should we be looking for?

    Any other advice you have would be very appreciated! I wish I was near Seattle so I could just come and pay you to fix this! 🙂

    1. I should add it is the DOHC. Also I found that you sell parts, so I did a parts request form to find out how much the parts would cost me, I would prefer to purchase them from you, since you know what you are doing! Thanks again!

    2. Hi Cole,

      The timing components, Water pump, Separator plate should all be replaced at the same time

      The oil pump, wrist pin access should be resealed.

      I would also suggest the acc. belts and coolant hoses.

      If you send us a parts price request we can provide further details, please keep in mind we offer a repair guide and tech support.

      Justin

  577. Good morning Justin.

    I purchased a 1998 Subaru Outback Legacy wagon 2.5l. Test drove it in a 35-40 mph are for approx 20mins. Whisper quiet. Trans shift was seamless. Brakes good. All interior equipment worked great. Drove the car home approx 20 miles @65 mph. Car began to lose power.. gauge C–>H… Car stopped. Towed car. Mechanic checked it out.. said the oil was mixed in the reserve container, oil stick smelled like sulfer and oil was black. He then noticed the 2 spark plugs were not connected on the left side of the car and the wires were burnt ( said that was the easy fix ). He told me the radiator was new and the water pump but when he filled the radiator with water… he did not feel any fluid going to the pump. He said I need a new motor but after reading this thread… sounds head gasketish. Worth towing for a repair? I need a car asap 🙂 Thank you

    1. Hello Racksie,

      I really cant say from here why it would need a motor? Based on the comments from the Technician/ mechanic I am kind of at a loss as to how to advise you. The water pump thing doesn’t make much sense to me I am afraid, it is a reverse flow cooling system there is really no way the water pump couldn’t be going to the pump, it may have trouble flowing out of the pump if it has a thermostat issue or an air pocket.

      It sounds like a HG issue, but a thorough inspection of the car is needed to have the whole picture, Sometimes Techs that are not all that familiar with the Subaru will steer you towards a motor replacement rather than a HG repair and in that case it would be better to have them not to do a HG repair as they may not be the best choice for that repair.

      I think its worth repairing, but I am at a disadvantage with out seeing the car.

      Justin

  578. Here comes the ripper! Looks like my subi wants to be put down. My Vicous Coupling needs replacing, I believe the Head gasket might have gone (pending inspection).
    It is also due for the 105k Sevice (belt, water pump etc).
    Prices for parts at my local dealership are at “list”.
    Do you sell and ship these type of parts?
    Also, what other preventive things would you suggest be done if I do go ahead with the VC and HG work?
    Thanks for your advise.

    Juan

  579. Hi Justin, this site is amazing- thanks for all you do! I have an ’04 Outback. I bought it used 3 years ago. 8 months after I bought it, the head gaskets failed at 68,000 miles. This was under warranty, so I was able to have the HG’s replaced for $800 through the Subaru dealership. Now the car has 109,000 miles on it, and I am being told that the left head gasket has begun seeping again. Is this standard, for a HG replacement to only last 41,000 miles? I find it hard to believe it needs it again… although after reading your info above, I now know I need to replace my battery immediately. How many miles are HG replacements expected to last? Does “seeping” lead to inevitable failure? thanks.

    1. Yes it is very common for Dealer repaired cars to only last a relatively short period of time, typically the repair lasts less time then the original gaskets did. Its the repair method, the flat rate system used at dealers and the updated gasket not being much of an improvement at fault on the 2nd generation 2.5l all contributing to a short repair life.

      Some as soon as 12k some make it 80k, it’s really about how well it was done, and how it was maintained afterwards.

      I hope that helps , I know it’s frustrating but it’s still a good car.

      Justin

  580. Hi Justin,

    I literally just bought a 2000 outback legacy ltd. with 138k miles and the first thing I noticed a few days after purchasing the car was an odor coming from the air vents inside my car, and didn’t think much of it at first, then I was incapacitated for 5 wks, unable to drive my car and missed the 30 day warranty the dealer gave me. Last week I found myself on the side of the highway, en route to school, because my check engine light started blinking and noticed the car shuddering and could not accelerate. I had the car towed and the mechanic found an oil leak in my valve cover gasket causing a misfire in the 4th cylinder. I had everything repaired and replaced. I then drove my car back home from school hoping it was properly fixed. While still not convinced my car is finished with issues, I noticed the same odor smell coming from under the hood that I intermittently smell inside the car, I decided to have a mechanic appraise my car while I test drove other cars, and he asked me if I knew my coolant was almost empty. I told him I checked it a couple weeks ago and it was fine. Then I noticed the smell. He said that is the smell of coolant and that I must have a leak somewhere. Do you think this is possibly a head gasket issue, would there be any other signs? There is no evidence of a leak other than the smell both inside and out. I haven’t had any problems with the car overheating and I’d like to keep the car, but I don’t know what is going on with it. If it is the head gasket should I contact Subaru of America?

    Please let me know,

    Nik

    1. Nik,

      There isn’t much chance of SOA doing much on an 12 year old car you just bought.

      You really should of had it looked at before buying it I am afraid.

      At this point you need to realize it’s your car, have it thoroughly evaluated and take it from there.

      If it is head gaskets it can be fixed and driven for ten more years easily as long as the repairs are done well and there is followup maintenance.

      Justin

  581. Hi Justin,

    I have a 2006 Legacy with 73,589 miles. I went into an independent Subaru shop to ensure that the whirling noise I heard was a bad wheel bearing. It was confirmed that it was a bad wheel bearing and it was covered under warranty. The shop also indicated that I have a small crack in my left head gasket with leaks in the seal. They quoted me roughly $3,000, but also indicated that I should replace the water pump, belts, seals etc. I haven’t noticed any fluids under my car, no condensation building up in the oil, and no changes in temp levels in my car. Have you heard of 2006 Legacy’s having head gasket issues, or should I get a second opinion?

      1. When did Subaru change the 2.5L head gasket because I am currently considering buying a 2009 Forester and am concerned that if it is still the same gasket as my 2000 Forester which has just begun at 230,000 to leak coolant then I will have the same problem.

          1. I have a 2010 Forester, bought in August 2010. Does this mean I have a bad gasket on this car? I am smelling anti freeze when pulling into the garage after being driven. There are about 5000 miles on the car. What should I do?

          2. Hi Richard,

            I would highly doubt a 2010 has a head gasket issue. Is the coolant level low, are you sure you just aren’t smelling the protective coatings burning off the under body of the car?

  582. Hi, I emailed you yesterday. I am having some trouble with head gaskets on my 99 suburu outback legacy limited. I purchased the car used with 104,000. After overheating a couple of times around 108,000 I took the car to my mechanic, who did the water pump, and flushed the radiator(a handful of times), changed thermostat, and put new hoses on the radiator. After overheating again, he told me that he would not be able to do anything else for me. I than took the car to another guy who said he could do the head gaskets for $740. This was the cheapest price I could find and being unemployed I went for it. In the end he ended up charging me $1370. Included in this price was the “passenger side headgasket replacement, and a radiator, that he said I needed. This is a far cry from the price quoted in the beginning, and not included was taking the heads to machine shop , which cost another $250, and the radiator $205, and spark plugs $31, not to mention gas charge of $15 and a bunch of other charges. Three weeks after I got my car back it is still overheating, losing heat, and tailpipe blowing white smoke. The work is warrantied up to 12,000 miles, But as he called me yesterday he told me it could be the other head gasket that has the problem. “if its the same one he already fixed it will be under warranty” basically stating that if it is the other head gasket that he did not fix there will be more charges. Before any work was done he said he was going to see if it was the head gasket, and to diagnose the problem it would cost $130. If it ended up being the head gasket the $130 would be waved. What if he fixed the wrong one? Does that mean I should have to pay for his mistake?? I am very very angry at this point. I guess what I want to know is Do both head gaskets go bad on these cars or just one? and Should this mechanic be able to charge me again after saying that he was going to diagnose the problem, before he fixed anything? Was the radiator just a way to make more money? (he fixed the radiator last after the head gasket was done and charged $100 for service. Does that mean that he knew the car wasn’t fixed by doing the radiator after the head gasket had been done, and thought that would fix it, but it didn’t so gave it back to me anyways? Anyways if you could answer any of these questions at all I would greatly appreciate any advice you could give. By the way this is a great site! Very helpful!

    1. Hi Renee

      I just don’t have much to offer, we deal with this locally when a driver price shops us, takes it somewhere else and then calls with problems. I understand and respect trying to save money but there is such a huge difference between a good repair and a cheap one. Both head gaskets should be done no matter what, when dealing with overheating the engine has to come out and be checked for warp or else the gasket will never seal. I know hind sight is 20/20 but you didn’t have. A complete repair done. What to do from here? Try to appeal to the shop that did the repairs and hope they will help you.

      If not it’s a lesson learned but find a new shop.

      Justin

  583. Thanks for all your work in replying to this page.
    I have a question that I cant find the answer to here, although I may have missed it.
    My local shop say they will get the head gasket from the same people who make it for Subaru. Ishino, they describe it as a multilayer steel gasket. I just want to make sure that I get the correct part.
    I love this car.

  584. Hello Justin,
    This is great. Today, i signed a deal for a used 2003 forester 2.5X with 105k miles on it. I bumped into this website few days back and liking it a lot. This is my first Subaru. Could you suggest the oil change intervals, what oil to use and about the coolant conditioner. How frequently to use it. I live close to Boston, MA and unfortunately cannot come to your dealership !! I’m not a very active driver and mostly use my car on weekends. My last car (toyota), i drove about 4k miles a yr.

    Thanks a lot,

    1. I suggest oil changes every 3000 miles, or 3 months for the first few oil changes under your ownership, see if it consumes any oil during this interval or if the oil seems like it becomes contaminated(smells like Fuel when you smell the oil on the dipstick). You can stretch out the intervals when you learn how the car acts to the manner in which you drive it.

      The coolant conditioner really needs to be used with caution, I would add it at the next Cooling system service but not again until 60k from that service but since you have indicated you are a low mileage a year driver I would say change the coolant every 2 years and add the conditioner in every 4 years.

      That is the basic guide line I would follow.

      Justin

          1. Thanks again Justin.
            Can you recommend a reliable Subaru mechanic around Boston area? I live in Quincy,MA.

          2. Hello Rama

            I really don’t know anyone in Boston

            We do have plans to seek out good shops to refer to but I don’t have one to send you to just yet

            Sorry I can’t offer more

            Justin

  585. Hi Justin, this is a great resource. I am considering buying a 2004 Legacy 35th anniversary model. Incredibly, it only has 14,000 verified miles on it. I’m not sure if the coolant was ever changed in that time. Should I be concerned about the possibility of contamination RE: head gaskets on this car, given it’s age, in spite of the low mileage? The car seems to have been well maintained.

    1. Evan,

      It sounds like a good buy in my opinion. You will most likely have to deal with head gaskets at some point in time, if there are no signs of leaks now and you take care of it properly it shouldn’t be an issue for a while to come. If the coolant has yet to be changed I would definitely change it, you can go to a local parts store and maybe purchase a PH strip to check the coolant, if you are unfamiliar with how to check for voltage if you are worried about the potential for electrolysis.

      Justin

  586. Justin,

    I have a 2000 Subaru Legacy, and I wrote awhile back stating that I need my head gasket replaced again. I also need my transmission replaced since it is slipping when I push on the gas (it’s an automatic). I spoke with the shop where I normally get my car serviced and repairs done, and they said for both it’d run about 4500 dollars (including parts and labor). Does this seem reasonable? Apparently, the transmission would be refurbished since all the low-mile replacements had about 100k miles on them (and my car has almost 130k). I would just like someone else’s opinion on what I should do.

    Thanks,
    Kristina

    1. Sounds reasonable

      As far as what to do, Its a large sum of money to invest on your car, but as long as its done well it really should represent good value VS 30k on a new car in terms of how much per mile each would cost over the next 5 years.

      Justin

  587. Hi again!

    I posted a question back around the end of July about overheating in my 1999 Legacy GT which did turn out to be a bad head gasket. The radiator and the thermostat had to be changed at the same time. The water pump was changed out two years ago.

    I now have a different problem. I’d been noticing a smell in my car all winter long and thought it was an oil leak. A few weeks ago, the defroster quit defrosting the windows. a few times, when I started the car, I thought I heard water somewhere but could not figure out what it was. On MOnday, I heard a dripping sound and saw anitfreeze leaking out of the floor-heating vent on the passenger side. I took the car to my garage on Tuesday, and by the time I got there, the car was starting to over-heat and I had lost a large amount of my coolant–a good bit of which came into the interior of my car which I caught in a cup I happened to have with me.

    The mechanic told me I had a bad heater core. He decided to temporarily by-pass the core, and looping the hose that normally went to the core back to the engine so that the car would be drivable, just with no heater. However, when I went to leave the lot with it, it began to over heat. He kept it overnight and called me later to tell me air had gotten into the system when they put new coolant back in to replace what had leaked out and that I could come pick it up.

    But on the way home with it this evening, it began to overheat again after I was on the road for about 10 to 15 minutes. It was overheating while I was driving but didn’t seem to do it while idling–I let the car sit for a half hour and then started it up and let it run for about 10 minutes at idle and it didn’t overheat.

    There was no coolant leaking out of the car, the reservoir was full, and both fans were running.

    What could be causing this? Could the thermostat, which is less than a year old, have been damaged when I lost coolant on Monday?

  588. Hi Justin,

    I visited my local dealer (Budds Subaru in Oakville, Ontario) yesterday in search of life long coolant and the parts manager re-confirmed that they no longer sell life long coolant, I was told that it has been replaced with the 11 year “super” blue coolant ($30 per jug of 50/50!). He advised me that it is fully compatible with my 97 LGT and can be used interchangeably. I don’t know what type/brand I should use in my gen 1 engine. The closest match I could find on line is Peak long life coolant, it contains no phosphates or silicates, problem is I can’t find it anywhere and peak did not respond to my inquiry. Any other options?

    Thanks.

    Blair

    1. Blair,

      What you have is a Franchised dealer making a decision and a terrible one at that. Subaru of America still offers the long life coolant. I have no idea What Subaru of Canada is doing.

      Again there is Zero reason to use even the Subaru Long life coolant in a 1997 2.5l, the Subaru long life coolant was not even available when the updated gasket came out let alone the vehicle produced. The long life coolant was made in response to Dealers buying recycled coolant in Bulk by the 55 gallon drum to save money, And Subaru Pushing back on warranty claims stating if the Long life coolant wasn’t used and the conditioner wasn’t used warranty claims would in fact be declined this is on the SOHC 2.5l for the most part from 1999 to 2009.

      By Subaru stating this was to be applicable to all engines they got to reap the benefits of increased parts sales to the Franchises, its not unlike the McDonald’s corporation telling a franchise they can only wrap the burgers in McDonald’s labeled wrappers. I venture that cheaper ones can be had to better the bottom line but it is not allowed.

      If Subaru of Canada is no longer selling to its franchised dealers long life coolant there is a profit motive behind it. What to do from here? Switch Dealers, have some shipped, or put something else in, I haven’t seen anything that states A its no longer available,(ask your local dealer to see the bulletin from Subaru) or B that Super Blue is backwards compatible in fact the original TSB stated exactly the opposite..

      Justin

  589. Justin,

    You are doing great work here. I’m looking at a used subaru here in GA, and so did a quick google on the head gasket issue, found this blog, and feel 100x smarter now. I’ll be moving back to Seattle soon, and if I do purchase this subaru or another one, I will be certain to come to your shop for repairs.

    Thanks,
    Ben

  590. It’s great that you have been answering questions since 3-4 years on the same page.
    Not many people on the Internet do that.

    Anyways, I am planning to buy a 2003 Forester that has 77000 miles on it from a dealer. From the carfax I get that it was only driven for 16000 miles in the last 3 years.

    From your replies here, I understood that I should be getting a pre purchase check done on it, but I do not know anyone using a Subaru. Can I trust the dealer when I ask him about the HG job?

    1. Andy,

      You should have a pre-purchase doe somewhere independent of the Selling dealer there has to be a shop capable of evaluating external fluid leaks at least letting you know if there are any. I really cant speak to the “trust-ability” of any one Dealership. It really does go against my advice to ever buy a car from a Dealer , used car lot or private party with out a used car inspection. Unless you are buying it from us or a few other Independent Subaru shops that sell cars here and there across the nation its a gamble without an inspection.

      Since this is going to be your first car you as well as I don’t want it turn into a nightmare for you as it will be to big a financial issue to overcome at an early age, I see it a lot and it makes me ill every time. I have never met you and most likely never will, but Id hate to see you be burned regardless of those facts.

      Good Luck Andy!

      Justin

  591. Hi Justin,

    I recently purchased a 97 Legacy GT with 195 km’s and would like to change the coolant. Looking through the maintenance history I can see the coolant was changed at 148 km and at 174 km (with the T-belt), Subaru coolant conditioner was added both times. I am concerned that continued additions of this conditioner will clog the rad, moreover, since I have a gen 1 engine and this “conditioner” was aimed at curing the gen 2 external leak issue is there any reason I should continue using this conditioner?

    Secondly, I am having difficulty choosing a brand/type of coolant. I understand Subaru no longer carries the long life concentrate and now offers a new “super coolant” which cannot be mixed with other types of coolant, as such I would like to avoid this and locate a high quality silicate-free formula. Can you make a recommendation?

    Thanks for your help and keep up the good work!

    Blair

    1. Blair,

      Subaru still sells the long life coolant it has not gone away. I am not sure where that has come from. We have never and will never put the coolant conditioner in a gen 1 2.5L. I will state that it wouldn’t surprise me if at some point Subaru does way with the Long life coolant but it wont be until every 2008 that had it from that factory is out of warranty. So the earliest would be 2013.

      I know that some and only some not all Subaru Delayers have gotten carried away with a few service bulletins and put the stop leak in every Subaru they work on, its a huge mistake and is in reaction to Subaru Denying Warranty claims. So the Service directors at many of the “chain dealerships” have said ok fine everything gets it and there will be no questions and we get to make a little more money at the same time.

      Justin

  592. Justin,

    I just wanted to thank you for the time you devote to update this website. My 2003 Forester in Minnesota was very nice in winter and I was disappointed to find out the headgasket leak. Found a local shop to do it for just over 1K. I am not sure of the results yet but your website showed me that it is a very typical problem which is worth repairing. It went through the steps you described: oil leak then antifreeze.

    Your work is appreciated. Keep it up!

  593. Great show of knowledge here! Got a 96 outback wagon that has been swapped to a 2.2 from a 95 legacy. We got the car dirt cheap and I’ve fixed it up pretty well but one issue it’s still has is a overheating occasionally. I’m thinking it’s the hg. The car was parked for about 4 years before we got it. Now here’s where it stumps me it has only overheated in the morning when it’s cold outside and only begins to overheated after driving over a good sized mountain on my way to work. It will start blowing cold air on the way down. Not up. The lower hose will go cold and the upper is hot and feels like it’s holding back alot of pressure along with the overflow bottle bubbling over. I limp it the last few miles to work then after work I’ll top off the radiator and fill the now empty over flow bottle and drive home over the same mountain with no issue. It’s done this 3 times now and only in the morning and theres been many times I’ve gone over the same mountain with no issues either way. Additional info I have noticed occasionally white smoke but it’s usually only at first start up and may justly be condensation.

  594. I don’t buy part of your explanation about one of the causes of corrosion on horizontal engines.

    While oil will drain below the head gasket level in a V or “inline” engine, coolant will not. At least if the coolant overflow tank is kept full. That’s part of its purpose, after all, to supply coolant to the system, as it cools down (coolant contracts). The other, of course, is to absorb expansion, as the coolant heats up and expands.

    1. Hello Joe,

      Thanks for your comments.

      The best thing about facts is that are they are true weather or not you “buy them”. I have done More Subaru Head gasket repairs than I could ever remember, I have spent time evaluating the multiple causes and have tried laying out things that the Average car owner can do to prolong the life of their Head gaskets. I do not get too scientific as its boring reading for the average guy that just wants to know how to maintain his car. Do you really think I dont know the purpose of a Coolant Expansion Tank?

      Second Generation 2.5l SOHC head gasket leaks almost ALWAYS start out as external oil leaks and then graduate from there into External coolant leaks and finally internal head gasket leaks resulting in overheating.

      While it is true that inline engines may still have coolant above the Head gasket line. None have the coolant “On top” of the head gasket with the aid of “gravity” to help it eat away at the gaskets. Name one that does.. This is a Fact about the Subaru H engine which is what I try to point out, I am truly Sorry if its not clear enough for you.

      Suggesting that contaminated fluids don’t contribute to the head gasket failure is untrue, you can look at the pictures or if you want to send a postage prepaid package I can send you a couple of gaskets or so for you to analyze your self. The material on the gasket is eaten away.

      I suggest maintaining your Vehicle in a way to prevent the fluids from becoming contaminated, fuel in the oil, voltage, elevated PH and corrosion in the coolant. It is a fact that if these things are done it will prolong the life of the Head gaskets over not doing them.

      In the Medical field there are studies that are done that things such as prove that Vitamin D is good for you and can help stave off certain ailments and prolong life, now if you don’t “Buy that” that is ok because there are plenty of people that do.

      When I suggest to change the fluids to avoid them from becoming contaminated fluids, which is one OF MANY factors in the cause of failure and the single easiest to understand and stay on top of yourself.

      You are of course welcome to your opinion, I hope after reading this you will have a clearer understanding of what I am trying to pint out if not there isn’t much else I can offer you.

      Justin

  595. Hello, I am on the search for an used Subaru Outback wagon or Forester. I orriginally started to look at the late 90 to early 2000 (due to the fact that I am on a budget) I have heard these cars are great but now I am getting very concerned. I still really like the car but I would hate to spend my money on something that 4 months down the road I will have to put another $2000 into. If I got an 2004 or newer should I be ok? I am just really confused now and I also (unfortunatly) do not have a lot of car knowledge. Please help me!!!!!

    1. Hi Jessica,

      You really need to have a good pre purchase inspection as some insurance away from having to spend money after you buy it, well or at least immediately after you buy it.

      You may be able to find one that has already been repaired correctly. But what you need the most is to establish a relationship with a Good local Independent Shop as part of this process.

      Justin

  596. Hi Justin. This is a continuation from the 2/18/2011 thread. Valves were adjusted to remedy loud tapping (2500-3000rpm, idle sounded ok)in engine after HG replacement in automatic 2003 outback. No change in sound. Three weeks later the loud tapping gradually became louder and as i was bringing it back into shop, the oil light came on and the tapping turned to banging. The car lost compression and stalled on the highway and now runs so poorly that it is undriveable. My question, what are all of the ways that oil pressure/oil pump may be effected by a HG replacement (not sure if the engine was pulled out to do the job)? Many Thanks. Joe

    1. Joe,

      Wow thats unfortunate. there are many things that can go wrong during a repair, whether its done in or out of the car. Debris can clog any oil passage in the engine.

      I hope at least the shop that made the repairs is a good shop and going to participate in the Repairs?

      Justin

  597. Hey Justin
    My 04 Outback has a coolant leak – surprise! I had it in the shop one month ago for a 100k timing belt replacement. We also did the water pump, thermostat, new hoses and clamps. The coolant started leaking after I got it back from this repair. I took the car back to the mechanic and he tightened up the clamps and hoses. The coolant leak still really didn’t go away, so I do believe him when he says that now I need a new head gasket. My question is if this could or should have been noticed earlier? or if perhaps this should have been replaced when the timing belt was done? I was under the impression that the motor had to be brought out for the timing belt, but apparently it does not. Now, because I’m broke, I’m going to have to drive for at least a month with the leaky head gasket…

    1. Hi Steve,

      If they are so bad that they need to be done now, than yes 1 month ago they were most likely leaking enough to not take your money on a timing belt replacement until after you had been informed of the head gasket repair. We see this a lot, in is one of the things that sets our shop apart form others, and we do loose a few lost appointments as a result.. But We all sleep at night knowing that we have always been honest with those situations. I don’t know if that is the Exact set of circumstances or if it is a lack of understanding of what to closely look for on these cars. I wont discount that fact that it will cost more in the long run to have it done this way. But I am sure you figured that out already.

      Justin

  598. Justin – I have 2001 Outback 4-cyl purchased in 2000 with 102,300 miles now. In 2005 at 50,400 miles I had installed a new short block by dealer under warranty for ticking noise (a.k.a. piston slap) that was diagnosed due to excessive clearance cylinder walls. I’ve always done good maintenance typically by myself and now it looks like I have coolant leaks from head gaskets left side. I have 2 questions; 1) In 2005 would dealer have installed upgraded gaskets (went to dealer for campaign WWP-99 in 2004 for bottle of junk) and 2) Any possibility SOA would cover under warranty since new short block < 8 year & 100,000 miles (or would I be pushing my luck)? Thanks.

    1. Hi Jim,

      In 2005 the gaskets used would have been the 633 gaskets which are the most updated that Subaru offers for the SOHC 2.5l from 1999 to 2009.

      You can try SOA but technically the Short block repair had a 1 year 12k warranty provided by the Dealer and Not Subaru.

      Justin

  599. Me again, I spoke to a subaru mechanic who told me the 2.2 in a 97 Impreza is the best engine Subaru has ever made and he has seen very few HG problems. He suggested that there is a plate behind the engine with 8 bolts and it looks like a rear main seal leak. Said it is a cam plate on the block assembly which is an access port to the Rod Bearings. Said it is behind the fly wheel. Any idea what he is referring to so I can tell my mechanic? Thanks a lot!!

    1. Hi Thomas,

      I am afraid I am confused, you have Subaru mechanic that you need me to tell you so you can tell him?

      At the back of the engine there is a separator plate that has 6 screws, a left rear wrist pin access plate, and a Rear main seal all of which can and do leak.

      Typically how it works is the car comes into someone that is familiar with the make, then the Technician evaluates what is wrong and reports that back to you either directly or through a service advisor.

      If the “mechanic” looking at and repairing the vehicle doesn’t really know what to look for I am not sure how thats going to go for you.

      Hope that helps and best of luck. By the way the 1997 2.2l is notorious for “dropping” valve guides and is far from the best engine Subaru has ever built hope he plans on evaluating the valve guides prior to making repairs?

      Here is a link to the Separator plate video

      https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-seperator-plate-explained/

      Justin

      1. Justin,
        There are not many subarus in Houston TX. You do see quite a few now however. My mechanic is not a “subaru” mechanic he works out of his garage. I have been unable to find any independent shop in Houston that specializes in Subarus. The guy i spoke to on the phone IS a subaru mechanic but his dealership/shop is 30 miles from my home and they routinely quote twice the price for any work that needs to be done. For example $2,500 just to replace the head gaskets. My car would sell for $3,000. So yes, I am trying to get information to pass on to my skilled but not subaru knowledgable mechanic. I have found that it is better have as much information as possible when trying to fix a car problem when the issue is not readily apparent. Thanks for the advice and link.

        1. If you are interested. Finally got the car into the mechanic. He also said that he could not pinpoint the leak without removing the rack and exhaust manifold. Once he did he confirmed with was coming from what he assumed was the rear main seal before dropping the transmission. I insisted he replace the separator plate and brought him the parts. He confirmed the leak was the plate but replaced the seals as well. How a plastic plate on an engine was considered a good idea is a mystery to me.

          1. There are so many plastic engine parts used today do to the rising cost of metal on every type of car out there mostly intake manifolds but we see more and more of it every year. Yes its not a great idea but its the one that is often made by corporate vehicle manufacturers to lower costs.

            Even with all of the warranty issues that may arise it still typically works out in the car makers favor.

            Justin

  600. Hi Justin. I think there is an answer in all the posts but need some help to tease it out. I have a 4 cyl 2001 Outback with a check engine lite on which gives a reading of AntiKnock Sensor according to autozone. Does one just replace the sensor(I could do it) to see if it goes away OR check for head gasket issues which may have triggered the sensor? If its the latter, is it best to take it to a shop or are there DIY checks that work better than others.

    1. Hello Keith,

      The knock sensor has to be tested for frequency out put to know if its ok or not. I dont know if you are capable of doing that at all of equipped. You can try the sensor and 85 % of the time it is what is wrong, there is also a reflash for the ECM as well

      Justin

  601. My boyfriend just bought a subaru outback four months ago and purchased a $3000 waranty that should have covered a bad head gasket. He bought the car with 103K on it, and when he took the car in this week the dealership told him he has a blown head gasket that repairs will run him $2000. I am wondering why the dealership wont repair it at a lower cost or free since it was their mess up on mot fixing it before selling him the car and/or selling him a $3000 waranty on the car that he understood at this time would repair high repairs such as a blown head gasket. in the four months he has owned it he did one oil change at the dealership he bought it from. Oh and it was a Subaru Dealership he went to to purchase the car and get the oil change and who told him this latest problem. Also when he purchased the car he told them about the vibration it had when at a stop when in gear. They told him they would look into it before he got his loan. they said at that time it was fine. at his oil change they said the diferencial fluid was leaking and just the other day when he took it back because of the vibrations at stops when in gear they told him it was the head gaskets. Shouldn’t the dealership or Subaru fix this problem with little to no cost to my boyfriend??? and if yes how does he go about getting it done he is very frustrated with this problem because he bought the $3000 warranty being told it would fix these sort of problems if they occurred …

    1. Hello Annie,

      A good independent pre purchase inspection would have been a good idea ahead of buying the car. The Dealer is not responsible for repairing head gaskets prior to sale but yes they “should have” done so. But would you have paid an extra $2000.00 for it if they had? They run a business the more they spend fixing a car the less money they make or in some case they wouldnt have made any money had they repaired it its really just that simple. To the warranty, yes most of the aftermarket warranties DO NOT COVER GASKETS AND SEALS IF THE CAR HAS OVER 100K WHEN THE WARRANTY IS SOLD. I put this in caps because its the opposite of how it looks on your contract. No they shouldn’t have sold you the warranty if it doesn’t cover the most common thing that will happen on a Subaru. No you should not have ever bought a car with out an inspection in hind sight, no you shouldn’t have bought the warranty in hind sight. But moving forward its your car, you can complain to SOA, the Selling dealership and any consumer protection agencies and that may get you somewhere. But it also may not.

      Justin

  602. Thanks for the website and informative thread. I have a 2006 Forester with about 106,000 miles diagnosed today with a HG leak when I brought it in for timing belt replacement. Cost of both repairs together, plus tensioner: $1,500. Is this reasonable?

    There aren’t any independent shops in my area, so I am working with a multi-manufacturer dealer (Subaru, GMC, Pontiac, etc.). Since I’m over 100,000 miles, is it worthwhile discussing my case with Subaru America? I gather I should insist on engine removal, in any event.

    1. A bit more info: I’m in Virginia, if that helps at all to size up reasonable cost. Also, both the Subaru specialists in a 50-mile radius are dealers, neither takes the engine out – they would charge an additional $380 to do so and claim it makes no difference.

      1. Hi Ian,

        I have really grown tired of that exact situation. I just don’t know what to say, In my opinion anyone leaving the engine in to do head gaskets is a moron taking short cuts, but if that your only choice and even if they charge you an extra $380 it doesn’t mean you will get an extra $380 in value so I wouldn’t spend it meaning if they prefer to take short cuts they really are not going to do a better job just because you are paying extra for it, we take the engine out and charge less than Every dealer who doesn’t.

        To the claim that it makes no difference.

        Cabinets made of MDF and glued together are just as good in quality as built all wood cabinets with Dove tail construction right?

        Justin

        1. Thanks, Justin. Do you happen to know if there is a registry or on-line list of independent, non-dealer Subaru shops? I haven’t come across one using routine Google searches.

          Thanks again.

  603. I have a 1999 subaru forester and after I bought it a year ago my mechanic had told me it had a small leaking head gasket and its nothing to worry about. A few months later I was driving my car for about 15 minutes and I noticed a burning smell and the engine was smoking. I took it to a mechanic in Eureka to see what the problem was and he told me the same issue that you have a leaking head gasket that is leaking pretty bad but its nothing to worry about, you can drive it for years.The mechanic also said that he did not see any signs of the coolant leaking but only oil. Currently I was driving my forester for 2 minutes and I noticed smoke coming from the left side of the engine. In a couple of days Im planning on driving down to San Francisco which is a 6 hour drive. Can I make the drive without destroying my car?

    1. Hello Christian,

      I rally dont know if you should drive it without seeing it my self it would be wrong of me to comment based on your post alone. There is no way a Head gasket leaking pretty badly is nothing to worry about, I dont understand that position at all.

      All you can do is keep up on your fluid levels during your trip and if the car acts up during your trip know you will have to have who ever is close make the repairs rather than your local shop. Which based on the advise given might be just as well.

      Justin

  604. I was thinking of buying an 03 forester from a friend. Recently, she found it to have a small coolant leak. Her mechanic says he has some sealant that he wants to add to it to stop the leak. He says it will eventually have a head gasket leak, but wants to do this first.

    I am concerned. Won’t that stuff clog the radiator or harm the engine?

    Advise please

  605. Hi Justin,
    It’s wonderful to have such an incredible resource like you when bad things happen.
    I have a 2001 Forester with only 64000 miles on it, and it has been diagnosed with a HG failure (slight coolant leak so it probably hasn’t been happening long) and a cracked left front CV boot. I had the right side boot replaced 18 months ago and the dealer wants to replace the whole front with a remanufactured axle. Do you think replacing the CV boot is sufficient, since the car exhibits no other issues? I read that you think the original axle is better than any remanufactured one.
    I’ve requested a quote from you for the Head Gasket kit and Timing belt kit, but is there anything else I should replace since the engine will be out? Once the repair is done do I have to use the special Subaru coolant and additive or will any high quality coolant do?
    I wish we had someone like you in Washington DC but the left Coast gets all the good stuff.

    Thanks
    David

    1. Hello David,

      Thanks for the kind Words, Your parts are all on the way we are here to help if any questions come up during the repairs. You do not need any magic coolant or conditioner going forward

      Justin

  606. Hey Justin,

    Wow. It looks like you have been quite the dedicated author here – thanks for all the info you’ve provided. It helps a lot.

    I’m not sure how willing you are to help with a question regarding the price of a car I’m considering for purchase, but I’ll run my question by you anyway. I’m looking at a 98 Outback (automatic, 118K). I believe the price from the private owner is currently at 3200. It has a good amount of cosmetic damage (peeled paint, bubbled paint, dents in hood from garage door mishap, and a crack in the front bumper). No problems with the interior, and the owner seems confident that the car is in great shape mechanically.

    I asked about head gasket replacement, and the owner said that the HG’s have not been replaced, but at 100k the timing belt and water pump were replaced. The owner said this was to prolong the life of the head gaskets and avoid the problem. From what I read on this post, this may have just postponed the imminent HG problem.

    The owner has said that he will not go under 3k – do you think this is a good price for the car? From what I read here the HG alone costs about $1200 + labor and any additional maintenance required.

    I could afford the HG fix in 6-12 months, but not immediately.

    Any guidance/suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

    1. Hi Katie,

      No matter the price I always suggest a good used car inspection by someone who knows Subaru, they should be able to give you some insight on the Head gaskets. Regardless of your plans and time frame it will be up to the car to tel you when its time for head gasket repairs.

      The price sounds about right.

      Justin

  607. Justin,

    I have a 97 impreza. My mechanic thinks the Head Gasket is leaking oil but he says it is too big of a job for him to tackle. What would be a fair price to get this done? I understand you have to pull the engine to fix it. Also just because it is leaking do I have to fix it? The leak is small and i do not have to add oil between changes. Anything else that I should have done since the engine is going to be pulled anyway? All scheduled maintenance is up to date.

    1. Hello Thomas,

      The timing components, water pump, hoses etc all should be evaluated as part of the repair.

      The price is going to vary greatly based on exact needs.

      Justin

  608. Hi: Incredible website and fantastic information. I’m a member of the ForesterForums. Org, one of the guys recommended your website. Great resource……

    I have a 2003 Forrie X with AT and 132.6K miles……..just diagnosed by the dealer with leaking HGs (externally)…almost no oil usage or coolant (so far) and temp. gauge has been steady since new, no change there.

    My commuting drive went from 30K miles per year to 5K when we moved out of NJ to NH……my daily drive is 4 miles per day………after no hg leakage when doing the long commutes, I’m having a tech in Boston do the HGs using OEM parts, his price is 1300-1500 incl. all gaskets, oil seals and timing belt/water pump which is good compared to the dealer who wanted 1900…..to start. Also includes new spark plugs, head milling or sanding to make sure that it’s straight and true……..he does lots and lots of Subie head gaskets……

    Since my commute is fixed, what can I do to prevent the problem next time around? I change my oil/filter at 3-5K miles myself but that amounts to no more than 1-2X per year based on my mileage. I’ve had the major services done at the dealers and always used SOA-approved coolant and conditioner……..my timing belt was done at 100K miles by a Sube dealer in NJ and no leaks were observed so……….I’m assuming that the low mileage drives have caused this….am I correct?

    Car has NEVER overheated or even run hot……coolant always replaced on time.

    Thanks for your website and help!

    Steve

    1. Hi Steven,

      All you can do is try and take it out to “stretch out” its legs on the Weekends. Buy a volt Ohm Meter and lean how to check the Cooling system for Voltage, or get some Cooling system PH strips.

      Your already half way there understanding that you need to increase the fluid services to avoid future issues.

      Justin

      1. Thanks so much, Justin:

        This is such a great read for those longggg winter nights here in New England.

        Wish I had found you guys sooner BUT better late than ever……..sounds like I should be doing the oil 3-4 times per year regardless of mileage which makes sense now that I read your blog…

        Pray that the indy doing my gaskets is half as good as your shop is.

        Thanks, man!

        Steve

  609. Your information here is excellent and very helpful. In 2005 I bought a gently used ’93 Legacy Wagon with 154,000 miles on it. Now at 195,000 the engine is still going strong, but there are other problems and it’s time for another car. I just looked at a lovely ’98 Legacy Outback 2.5L (Limited Edition) with 152,000 miles, being sold by a 2nd owner, but I’ve heard about the potential for head gasket issues. My friend had a ’98 Forester with this problem that destroyed the engine. My question is this: Why has my Legacy Wagon never had a head gasket problem? What changed between 1993 and 1998, that the later cars have these problems? Thanks!

    1. Hello Neva,

      The Legacy 2.2l while had less head gasket issues did still fail, I have done hundreds in my years working On Subaru’s but typically it was later in between 150 and 250k. The 2.2l while a great little engine was not capable of becoming emissions compliant as the rules became stricter and make enough power to propel the vehicle as the platforms became larger.

      The single biggest change between what you own and what you are looking at is called OBDII.

      Justin

  610. Justin,
    Awesome and informative site!
    Just bought a ’00 Outback 2.5 with 106k miles.
    HG is blown we are told, so got it cheap, runs perfect and quiet for 5 miles then suddenly overheats and blows coolant overflow open.
    I will remove the motor this week.
    Replacing the HG’s, have heads checked and skimmed if needed, and do anything else I spot, inc water pump, Thermostat, timing belts that should be due at 120k anyway.
    A couple of questions…
    1/ You mentioned using “Copper sealant” on the HG prior to installation…. What do you use and why?
    2/ What is the headbolt stretch limit?
    3/ Do you have to use Subaru Coolant… what is a HQ alternative? I use Zerex in my Mercedes.
    3/ Anything else while I have the motor out? Front and rear oil seals?
    I want a long lasting repair!
    Thanks again.
    Steve

    1. HI Steve,

      We sell a Headgasket repair kit on our site that includes a repair guide. We also provide Full tech support when you buy the parts from us as well.

      Thanks

      Justin

  611. I bought a used EJ25D with 80,000 miles on ebay which is supposed to be in good running condition and it also has had the head gasket replaced with the new oem design; however, when i removed the oil pan I found milky oil at the bottom which concerned me. I brought the heads to a shop and said they were a little warped so I had them resurfaced. Now I am confused if I should also resurface the short block. Will resurfacing the short block be necessary?

    Also will the resurface heads and block retard the timing since the timing belt is the same length while the long block has been shortened? I found adjustable idlers which is suppose to fix this problem.

    My research has given me inconclusive results on both issues. Please let me know. Thank you very much for your time.

    1. Hi Jeremy,

      If the block or heads are warped passed the service limits then yes they would need to be resurfaced, which is not easily done in the case on the block. Typically if there is fluid mixing then you would want to look for a crack in the cylinder liner or a cylinder head as most likely its not from the gasket.

      Adjustable idlers? As long as the components are not machined past the service limits, and the tensioner is fully function-able and not “maxed out ” then there should be no need. We have really only used them here when working on performance enhanced engines where the heads and block both were machined in conjunction with new pistons and we are trying to nail a compression number to work with a boost target.

      Justin

  612. I have a 04 H6 Outback with 70k on it, and it’s externally leaking anti freeze. My mechanic has quoted me $3k for all parts including new water pump and intake gaskets, which is also leaking. 70k seems early; have you seen any trend on these Subaru’s? Is it worth putting another $3k into a 7+ year old car?
    Thank you for any advice/insight you might provide!

    1. Hi Jim,

      We do a few Head gaskets on the H6 engines but really not that often. I will also say it seems to happen more so on the 8 year old cars with relatively lower mileage as its a fluid contamination thing more so than a failure do to mileage.

      I really like the H6 platforms so I think its a good idea to make repairs as long as you like the car and it suits your needs..

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  613. Hi Justin,

    I have a 2005 Forester XS (bought used from private party with an extended warranty) with 68k miles on it. Last year when I drove the car up the mountains (from sea level up to 4200ft) loaded with 3 people it would overheat. I stay mostly in the 5th gear (manual transmission). I stopped, saw a low level of cooling fluid and put in half a liter of bottled water. I was fine for that day and forgot all about it. This weekend I had the same problem at the same mountain (I-8 out of San Diego). It would again miss a lot of cooling fluid. I bought a gallon of universal cooling fluid at a gas station and kept adding for the next few days of our road trip. It often would overheat in 5th gear, but would cool down in higher revs in 4th gear. In the mountains of AZ (in the snow) it became so bad that we gave up and went back home. I topped off in Phoenix (I went through the whole gallon of coolant) and had (wonder of wonders) no problem on the whole trip home to Southern CA.
    During the 4 day trip the coolant would sometimes over boil and blow open the lid of the coolant extension chamber and spill coolant.
    I only had once problems on flat roads (again driving mostly in fifth gear with low revs). At all the other times it was at steep hills.
    Do you have any idea whats happening or what I have to brace myself for going to the dealership? Does the extended warranty cover those costs?
    Thanks in advance.

    1. Hi Michael,

      Without viewing the car its real hard to know exactly whats wrong and based on logistics, thats not going to happen any time soon. As far as the Warranty, the things that are covered are always broken down within the warranty literature, most do cover head gaskets though if thats in fact what is the matter with your Car.

      Justin

  614. I just replaced both HG’s in my ’97 outback, put the engine back in the car and it runs like crap! #1 and #3 cyls do not appear to be firing – checked all these:

    compression > 150 (all cyls);
    spark present at all cable ends;
    all plugs cleaned and gapped;
    #1 cyl gets spark at TDC (checked with timing light).

    Both #1 and #3 plugs are wet with gasoline …

    Help

    1. Hello M,

      Its really hard to say what you have gotten wrong, there possibilities are numerous.

      When we sell you a head gasket kit we offer Tech support, as much as you need. There just isn’t much I can do for you in this circumstance you will just have to re check what you have done.

      Justin

  615. Mr. Stobb:

    I am from upstate NY, Rochester area. I had the unfortunate experience of both losing my job and then totaling my car (a Suzuki SX4) and being faced with the situation of having to purchase a new(to me) vehicle in order to find/get to a new (nonexistant) job.

    I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a fairly solid 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback wagon, manual transmission, RED on gray car from a college student moving back to Seattle for a song ($1200). It has a brand new exhaust from what I can see, and other than the tennis ball sized holes of rust at the corner of each door and the horribly failing weatherstrip on the left rear door, the car’s in fairly good shape structurally.

    It has *177K* miles and the next time I drive her she will turn 177,777 miles. Quite an honor I know, but not without a price. When I got the car I did all the good boy got a new car stuff, PCV, air filter, oil change, gearbox + rear diff gear oil change, plugs wires etc. and it still $#$%& the bed on me on the way from 1 job interview to the next today. $600 later, I am completely satisfied with the work they did replacing the right rear wheel bearing, lateral link, and managed to save the axle and ABS sensor even though I had the ABS light on as I was driving to the dealer.

    The dealer also informed me that the head gaskets were done at 126K in 2006. This means that the car SHOULD have the updated head gaskets and they should be reliable still at 177-178K miles now? I ask because we are planning on taking the car on a road trip in April and I want to do the timing belt and all assorted pulleys etc. before we go on the trip. If I don’t have to worry about the head gaskets, that means I can leave the engine in the car, pull the radiator + AC condensor for extra clearance plus I need to change the coolant anyway. Then change the timing belt and pulleys fairly comfortably.

    If I can do the TB and coolant job myself, I can save some much needed bucks for the trip. I still need to take the car to the dealer for FR ball joint (quoted $175), LR lateral link ($279) and $79 for alignment before we go on the trip.

    I was just going to use Prestone regular yellow bottle mixed 50/50 with distilled.

    Any issues/comments you have on the above plan would be most appreciated and helpful to get our family from NY to Florida and back safely.

  616. Justin,

    You are truly offering a great service to those of us who find car repairs baffling and frustrating. Thank you.

    I own a 1997 Outback (2.5 liter). I have had to make a few costly repairs over the last 2 months, and am now told I need new head gaskets. In December, I took the car in for an oil change and they recommended a cooling system flush and new radiator hoses ($270). A month later I had a severe shaking problem and had to replace both front axels, rotors, and brake calipers ($1000). A week later, I found coolant leaking from my car, and a bit of smoke coming from the wheel well, so I had to get the radiator replaced ($410). After a few drives, the coolant reservoir began filling up with a frothy looking coolant, which would then spill out of the top hole and leak all under the car — the diagnosis was I needed new head gaskets (quoted price, with labor, $2000). I never saw the temperature gauge go up, and only had a very minor bit of smoke on one occasion (in other words, I don’t think I damaged the engine or let it get too hot).

    I trust the guys that work on my car, but I’m bleeding cash and am not sure this repair will fix all the problems — is there a chance that the leaking gaskets have damaged or tainted other parts of the car that will need fixing next week (e.g. the radiator)? When you replace a head gasket that has been leaking, do you recommend a new radiator in addition to changing the water pump and timing belts?

    Thanks for your help.

    Christian

    1. Hi Cristian,

      There just isn’t any way for me to know how it has really transpired. Subaru’s should never be flushed, Most likely there were some minor tell tale signs of head gasket issues ahead of the radiator leaking.

      The axles and brake caliper thing is something that does happen. What it really sounds like to me is that no on is doing a good evaluation of the car just fixing as it breaks, which is always frustrating I would suggest a complete vehicle inspection. From there have a break down of ALL that is needed now plus the overall state of the rest of the systems not just the ones in trouble now.

      There is no way to know if there is any damage as a result of the head gasket issue but that would be unusual unless it overheated multiple times.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

      1. Justin,
        Why do you say Subarus should never be flushed? I’ve had overheating problems ever since I had a flush and new coolant installed at a Subaru dealer in upstate NY.

        Thanks,
        Neil

        1. Hi Neil,

          Because it can create air pockets that will lead to overheating and internal head gasket failure, because if the same flush machine was used to flush out a brass radiator it can actually create a chemical imbalance in your cooling system, because coolant flushes are a way for a shop to generate revenue by up-selling you on a service you may not need. If you just simply do whats out lined in the owners manual, or follow a good shops advice you will most likely need a flush. Dealer service departments are all about generating profits, when there just isn’t enough being made in the normal course of service and repair they tend to push the up sells, this is true with most shops I can tell you that we do not try and sell cooling system flushes only suggest good maintenance.

          Justin

  617. Hi Justin,

    I have a 2005 Subaru Forester, no turbo. Has 99,000+ miles. I have been smelling coolant for the last couple of weeks, so I decided to get that checked out.

    Just got back today from the Subaru dealer that I bought the car from (have always taken it there and trusted them). They said I have an oil AND coolant leak from BOTH head gaskets, and a coolant leak from the water pump. This is what I was told and it is also on their little work-up estimate sheet that they gave me and I have just read again to make sure I have my facts straight. I did not have them do any work as I wanted time to think about it.

    $1,750 to replace BOTH head gaskets (I was told the engine will be removed)
    $690 to replace the water pump

    They said that the water pump repair would be $265 LESS (690-265=$425)….but only if I got both repairs done at the same time (both head gaskets and water pump) as the engine would be out of the car already. The service rep seemed to hint like the engine has to be removed to replace the water pump???

    My question – does the engine on my 2005 Forester need to be removed to replace the water pump? Am I understanding them correctly? And do both quotes sound ball park (the water pump and BOTH head gaskets)?

    Also, I have noticed some dark “stuff” that coats the inside plastic of my coolant overflow tank. It’s dark in color. I am not able to see what the level of the coolant is due to this visual impediment. Not sure what it is, the estimate sheet made no mention of it. Possible oil leakage into the coolant??

    I really like my Subaru and am thinking I will get the work done. If the head gasket is the only major problem, it’s worth it to get it fixed and have my car last to 200k-300k. I look forward to your reply. You have a very good web site.

    Thanks in advance,
    Mike in NJ

    1. Hi Mike,

      The engine doesn’t come out to replace the water pump but yes there is a huge amount of overlap when already doing head gaskets. The price as a stand alone job @ $690.00 sounds about right but the $425.00 while replacing the head gaskets sounds high unless included in that are the timing belt and tensioner.

      Justin

  618. Thanks, Justin.
    Idle sounds fine. Startup is a little louder than before repair but resolves in 1-2 seconds. Sound is audible at 2500-3000 rpm; when accelerating or backing off of the acceleration. Timing belt was replaced 25k ago.
    I’m bringing it back to the shop that did the head gasket so they can look/hear it. In the meantime, I spoke to the shop manager and he said that this is common after HG repairs. The increased sound is most likely caused by the tear down/clean process and replacement of all fluids (…everything is clean, buildup and sludge is gone so now we hear the unmuted engine sounds).
    I’ll let you know how it goes.
    Best

    1. Its possible that the valves are out of adjustment, but it could also be the timing belt, tensioner, lack of updated bracket, mis adjusted belt guide( 5 speed Only) or maybe even some sort of accessors noise.

      We check valve adjustment here but I can speak to every shop and we are well are of the Dealers and some Independents charging extra to adjust the valves. It is possible that the valves are out of adjustment but I will add that typically if they are loose the noise is very noticable at idle as well as higher rpms.

      Its probably better to have someone try and have a look and begin the process of elimination, if its a new noise it could be serious.

      Justin

  619. Hi Justin,
    2003 Outback. Head gaskets, valve cover gasket, and thermostat replaced last week for first time by local Subaru specialist at 119k miles. I had a massive external coolant leak and was down almost 2 quarts of oil at 4k miles prior to repair.
    Overall, I’m happy with the repair as the leak is gone, but I notice a louder valve slap around 3000rpm, even when the engine is warm. Could there be a connection between the repair and the increased noise and can the valves be adjusted to remedy this?
    Much obliged.
    Joe

  620. You do a great service here! However I think that I see an error in one of your replies, but you may have only been referring to the ’03 and later engines. The first gasket that Subaru used for the SOHC 2.5l engine [Legacy] was the 11044AA521, then the 632 and 633. I’m acutely aware of the difference since I have an ’02, with the 632 gasket. No leaks yet, but I’m waiting! If you have the time someday, it would be helpful to expound of the difference between the 521, 632, and the 633.

    Your reply Jan 13 “The Subaru Factory Head gasket has been up-dated once and once only for the SOHC 2.5l engine. The original part number was 11044AA632. The updated 11044AA633.”

    1. Hi Mike,

      Well actually the 521 and the 632 are the Exact same gasket, where as the 633 “claims to be updated”

      The 521 was actually used first in the 1999 Forester BTW, since the 521 and 632 are the same gasket just superseded with no claim of “update” I really have never brought it up, as why add to the confusion that already exists.

      The 521 was actually also never available to buy at the Subaru Parts department as by the time the Outback and Legacy Platform came out the gasket part number had already been changed to 632.

      I honestly don’t ever remember using anything other than the 632 at first and than the 633 later while I was still at the Dealer making the repairs under warranty.

      If you have Followed Subaru for any length of time you will find it common that they will often change part numbers with out a design change and typically if the part has a design change there is a TSB issued in correlation.

      Justin

  621. Justin,

    Hi I recently bought a Subaru outback legacy with 112k miles, for only 500bucks. Thought it would be a great deal knowing I would have to put some money into it. I’ve been reading your forums and have come to the conclusion that the Head Gasket is going. Unfortunately. The oil residue in the reservoir, and visible bubbling. If I’ve caught it soon enough. Is it possible to put some sorta sealant inside it to seal whatever is happening?? A friend had mentioned something to me about a sealant specific for coolant problems. What should I do? Thanks for your time.

    -matthew

    1. Hi Matthew,

      I have never seen any product permanently seal a Head gasket leak. If you spend enough time on the site you will see how many have tried only to have it not work, it can also clog the radiator and Heater core.

      I know everyone is looking for a way around spending money but there just isnt one that makes sense.

      Justin

  622. Hi Justin,

    Unbelievable amount of knowledge here on Subaru HG problems! I wish I lived in Seattle so I could bring you my car immediately. I just took my 2000 Legacy GT wagon in for servicing and oil change and the shop told me that the HG was leaking oil and coolant. They recommend replacement of the HG to the tune of $1800. There are no visible leaks of fluid and I don’t have any evidence of overheating or oil in the coolant or vice/versa. He basically said that it was something to keep an eye on and replace soon. Car has 128K. There is a burning oil smell when driving sometimes, but the car does not noticably burn through oil. At what point do I have to replace HG immediately? What should I look for to diagnose when to do it? I can’t afford to drop $2K now, but will be comfortable doing so in a couple of months.

    1. Hi Chuck,

      I would suggest keeping up on your fluids, and rent a car if you need to take a long trip before you can have it repaired. I dont suggest driving it that much once a coolant leak is observed, the reason you dont see it is it collects on the cross member and splash pan and rarely hits the ground as the plastic splash pan has an absorbent pad, but when the pad is finally full it will be like a full diaper.

      Once coolant is found to be leaking it really needs to not be driven very much I am afraid.

      Justin

      1. Thanks Justin. Makes sense. I will have it repaired soon and baby it until then! Like I said before, I wish I lived in Seattle. I’d bring it to you immediately as you seem to have a great amount of expertise on Subarus.

  623. I’m looking at buying a 1996 outback with 106k. the add claims it’s an automatic with the 2.2L engine. What I’m reading here is the automatic has the 2.5L how do I make sure it’s the 2.2L? It also sounds like the 2.2 doesn’t have the same HG issues as the 2.5 right?

    1. The 1996 Legacy Outback had a 2.5L and no other engine, the 2.2L only came in the Legacy Outback with a 5 speed.

      The Subaru Impreza Outback could of had a Automatic with a 2.2l.

      The 2.2l has less head gasket issues.

      Justin

  624. Hi Justin – Mine is a 2003 Forester (VIN manufac date is ’02) w/141K, manual trans. Started smelling odor like hair burnt in a hairdryer a few months ago; mechanic found no problem. Started smelling antifreeze outside car after operating; no signs of leaks in engine compartment or on ground. When weather got very cold (below 20), could smell antifreeze inside car if I turned on heat as soon as engine started; had to wait at least 5 minutes to turn on heat to prevent odor inside car. Also had problems stalling, esp. in reverse, & the radio failed to turn on once. After each stall, must turn off engine & pump clutch at least once before it’ll start again. Checked engine compart again; battery fluids OK, powdery buildup on contacts, no sign of coolant spray/leaks, but coolant in tank looked like oil. Took to mechanic & he said 1 head gasket is leaking; he wants to replace both sets “because they’re the same age & the other might leak too”, and also suggests replacing timing belt & H2O pump even though they were done at 90K “because we’re gonna be removing them anyway”. He replaced the coolant & did an oil change for now while I look for 2nd opinions. Does his diagnosis sound legit? How about the course of action/repairs he suggests?

    1. Hi Marianne,

      There should be no powdery build up on the battery “contacts” If you have 1 head gasket leak it is better to pull out the engine and do both sides. As far as the dieing and no start , I just don’t know from here what the causes are.

      Justin

  625. i am thinking of buying a 06 impreza – the dealer safety inspection came up with low oil level due to head gasket leaking oil- is this a deal breaker? i am concerned that timing belt will also need to be changed-also tranny shift seal leaking-car has 106000kms. is this a problem on all 04-07 subarus

    1. Hi Shannon,

      Its up to you whether or not its a deal breaker, is the price discounted to reflect needed repairs? The timing belt is due at 105k and is just good maintenance. We see Subaru’s from 2000 that have still never had head gasket repairs made, and we repair as new as 2007 out of Subaru’s warranty. So a problem for some but not all. Most likely unless you bought it new and understood real car maintenance rather than the make believe thats in the maintenance manual you will be faced with a HG issue.

      Justin

  626. Your site is exactly what I was looking for. My Subaru Outback 2003 (with 90,000 miles) Check Engine light was coming on frequently so I took my car to a shop and they performed the diagnostic test. They said there was no history of the engine light coming on and they found nothing wrong even though I told them the engine was skipping. They charged me $74.00 (reduced from $140.00 since I questioned this) for the diagnostics and I had asked them to check the breaks. I then took my car to the Subaru dealership that found oil in my 3rd cylinder and stated that I needed a repair of the head gasket and recommended full engine reseal for every gasket and seal. Estimate is $3,000.00. Might as well throw in the timing belt while we are at it for $125.00 more). I called a local shop and got the estimate of $1600.00 for all of the above. I will pick up the car from the dealership and take it to shop number 3 for the repairs. I’m sure the dealership will want to charge me $105.00 for the diagnostics, but I will ask for this to be waived or for a discount considering the known history. The head gasket demise seems to be a huge downfall in Subaru’s. I was happy with my Subaru and had thought I would buy another one when needed. I’m not so sure now since I see other owners mentioning 65,000 mile HG replacements.
    Any suggestions? Thank you, Jenny

  627. Hi Justin,
    Thank you so much for the invaluable resource you’ve provided here and the clear passion for your profession and quality service with integrity that you so proudly represent!!

    I have a 2004 Outback Ltd with 67k miles that was at the dealer for an oil change about two weeks ago. At that time I was told the cylinder head gaskets were leaking and the oil pump is leaking. I was quoted $2800 for the repair which I believe included the timing belt. I asked what my options were for waiting to get this costly repair done and the service advisor said “Just keep a close eye on your oil and coolant levels”

    I then contacted a local shop that specializes in Subarus and after a lengthy conversation was told that they would charge about 2-300 less for the same job, but would use a much better gasket than what the dealer would use and would be sure to replace all other relevant bits at the cost of the parts while the engine was out of the car. The guy at this shop did recommend calling the dealer and/or SOA first to see if I could get a break on the price, as he mentioned that many times SOA will help out if a car has relatively low miles, is just out of warranty, etc.

    I contacted the dealer today and he said he would contact SOA and see what he could do for me. I am waiting to hear back.

    But now, after reading nearly all the posts on this thread, it seems rather likely that the replacement HG that the dealer would use is the same one I have and would therefore most likely fail early. Additionally, the repair is most likely to be done in the car which is also very undesireable from what I’ve read here.

    My question now is this: Even if SOA is willing to chip in on the cost of the repair , is it perhaps worth spending more now to have a better gasket installed by a shop that I know will perform the repair with the engine out as well as perform a thorough assessment of all parts that are easily accessed during this repair? In other words, does it just make sense to have this job done PROPERLY now, rather than having to do it all over again in another 50-60k?

    I love my Outback and plan to have it for many, many thousands of miles to come.

    Thanks again for the amazing resource!
    Carey

    1. Hi Carey,

      I would side with the Good independent Shop taking care of you, you might also ask SOA if they would credit some money back to you regardless of where it is repaired. Stranger things have happened.

      Justin

      1. Thank you so much for the reply Justin!

        A little update and followup questions if you don’t mind. I just heard back that Subaru will offer warranty rates on the HG repair and contribute $375 toward repair. That mean the job will cost me $986.45. I then have the option to do timing belt plus tensioner at $294.54, replace oil pump at $194 and get a valve adjustment for $280. All of these prices are apparently parts only (except for the valve adjustment I’m guessing).

        My questions are: Does this sound fair to you? Do you think it’s necessary to get a valve adjustment? What else should I make sure is done that they are not mentioning?

        I’m still undecided on whether to have this work done at the dealer for the discounted rate. It’s certainly appealing from an immediate financial perspective, but in the long run I’m not so sure.

        Also, if I now approach SOA myself after already having the dealer approach them, what are they likely to say about me wanting to have the work done elsewhere?

        Thanks again so much for your time!
        Carey

        1. Hi Carey,

          Here is the part thats hard to try and explain, the prices are on the high side, and the $375.00 is in fact something but stacked up against higher prices than you really should pay, its really hard to advise you if its a fair price or not, a $375.00 discount is nice but $280.00 for a valve adjustment is not The price for timing belt and tensioner is on the high side and suggest the parts are being sold at a bump list rather than MSRP. Which is $64.99 for the timing belt and $149.99 for the Tensioner, I would also suggest having the idlers done as well.

          Cant comment on you Calling SOA either making any difference.

          Justin

          1. Thanks so much for all your kind assistance Justin!

            So, you do recommend a valve adjustment as part of this repair?

            Man, I just wish I lived near your shop so I could just handle all of this with someone who clearly knows what their doing and is intent on being on being open, honest, and fair.

            Oh well. I’m gonna have to suck it up and get this repair done somewhere soon.

            Thanks again Justin.
            -Carey

  628. OK, thanks for the advice, i will go with the inspection. There is a significant difference between the 1999 and 2000, models, on the 2000 the car is a bit bigger and stronger, perhaps the engine too (if its well maintained) do you think it has any major advantages? is it more dependable? stronger engine etc.? (i have to drive an extra 4 hours for this one)

  629. Hi, hit a dear with my 1998 Outback (it was totaled) and am looking for another used one to replace it. I am looking at 3 Subaru’s and want to know your opinion on which is best ( I do a lot of country road driving as well as long trips) i need a work hours. 1) a 1999 Subaru outback with 105k miles no maintenance record for around 5,000. 2) a 2000 Outback with 99k for around 5,000. and 3) a 2001 Outback LL Bean with 130k for 6,000.
    i realize that all 3 of these are quite different machines, so i need to know which is over all best, and which is the worst of the pick, thank you very much for your time.

    1. All are solid choices, the 2001 LL Bean would be a good choice but the maintenance cost are higher. There are typical things we do to the H6 as well. Any of the cars will service you well, but on the 1999, and 2000 if they haven’t received head gaskets, plan on it in the future. Your Best plan is a Pre- Purchase inspection by a good Independent Subaru Shop .

      Justin

  630. Hello Justin:
    First of all, thanks a lot for publishing all this very interesting and useful info. I have a Forester 2005, bought it used from a Subaru dealer about 16 months ago, it had 50000 km. It has now 94000km and lately after a long (1 to 1.5 hr) highway road trip, after stopping the engine it makes an almost non audible hissing sound as if pressure is leaking somewhere. The sound comes of under the right side of the engine, tomorrow it will be inspected by and independent mechanic who specializes in Subaru’s. In our phone conversation, he tells me that it could be head gasket failure, and that is a known problem on 2.5 engines, I wasn’t expecting this due to the low mileage of my car, but it seems that mileage is not the first concern, as I been reading probably the first owner didn’t maintained it well. I do 5000km engine oil changes, and 35000 km AT oil changes.
    Everything else works great on my Forester, so I think it is OK the invest in the head gasket job, my only question is about the symptom, the engine do not overheats, but the coolant on the bottle expands and makes some foam. Is that a typical symptom of this failure?
    Again thanks a lot!

    1. Hello Fermin,

      Expansion of the coolant into the overflow bottle can be one side of internal head gasket failure.

      The hissing could be pressure in the cooling system that is trying to escape.

      Justin

      1. Justin :
        Thanks a lot for posting a reply on my case. Well just back from the mechanic and no is not a head gasket failure, after inspection, the hissing sound that sounded exactly as pressure wanting to escape, is or, was done by the electronic “chirper” of the remote! The “chirper” grounded itself when water (or sludge here in winter) from the road, dripped on it! Anyways, I’m doing the timing belt service and changing ALL fluids on my vehicle next week.
        Thanks again for all the info. and have a nice day!
        Fermin

  631. I had previously owned a 1998 Legacy GT 2.5l I really enjoyed the vehicle. I am now looking for a used subaru, what should I be looking for when examining potential vehicles? I’m mainly looking in the 1996-1999 range.

    Thanks, great site, good info.

    Ken

    1. Hi Ken,

      Top things would be service records indicating if the Headgaskets have been addressed yet on any Subaru you are looking at. If there are no service records, look at the pictures in this artilce and notice how the original gasket pictured for the DOHC has some rivets, the replacementd form Subaru do not. Other than that, smell the coolant overflow bottle.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  632. Justin,

    I posted a question for you before and thanks for the informational response. I now have a new and similar question for you if you would indulge me?

    My parents have a brand new 2010 Subaru Outback wagon with 13,000mi on it now. They’ve got one of the Subaru auto starts on it as well. Recently, when I used the car for a couple days, I noticed that familiar burning oil smell when getting into the car if the auto start had been running for 10 minutes or more. Are you aware of a similar head gasket issue in these latest models, or is there something else you are aware of that would cause this? Just concerned and curious and want to catch something as early as possible. Thanks for any information.

    Cheers,
    Ron

    1. Hi Ron,

      A burning smell does not mean a external Head Gasket leak. The 2010 Outback uses a much improved MLS gasket and semi closed deck design, I really cant imagen it failing, especially at that mileage.

      I would suggest having the vehicle looked at to be on the safe side.

      Justin

      1. Much appreciated Justin. I wouldn’t think that would be the issue either, but probably just am paranoid about it given my own issues. I’ll be sure to have them ask about it.

        Cheers,

        Ron

  633. should there be proof of hg replacement on carfax looking at 2004 legacy with 2.5 l if not on car fax may just keep looking may be ill find a 05 theses cars are hard to find in the north

    thanks for any help
    john

    1. Hi John,

      For the most part anything done at the Dealer service department or a Good Independent Shop Like ours is reported to Carfax, we do how ever have customer opt out of the maintenance and repair tracking for some reason.

      Also there are many many shops out there that dont sync with Car Fax.

      Justin

  634. Hi Justin,

    Awesome site, really appreciate the time and effort it must take to answer all these questions!

    I’ve just bought a 1996 Impreza Sportwagon, all seemed fine at the garage but after about 1000km of driving it has started to leak something (coolant?) from what looks like an overflow pipe on the passenger side at the back of the engine bay (we are in Australia so its an RHD). The leak isn’t massive, and I think it only occurs when the car is stopped…maybe….. There is no mayonaissey gunk on the oil cap or much of a fuel smell in the oil, the power seems OK, the temp gauge sticks religiously to just under 50% and there are no warning lights. I’m a bit worried though as there is now a puddle under the engine bay before I drive off anywhere.

    Any assistance would be much appreciated!

    Tom

    1. Hello Tom,

      I really can only assume that you must have a Turbo Model Subaru Impreza ((they didnt do that here until 2002 in the WRX), and the coolant is leaking from the fill tank. There are a few things that could be going on there but most likely the tank has sprung a leak which is very common, if you sneeze around that era fill tank they will leak, ( very brittle as they age) or there is a leak at a hose @ the tank.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  635. i have a 95 wrx from japan, as i was driving the car home from vancouver to the kootneys the battery and ebrake warning appeared. i cleaned the terminals of the battery, looked for any corrodid wires. didn’t find anything suspect. the brakes are fine, pads in good shape, level of brake fluid is good. any ideas what my make these warning lights in the dash.

  636. Hi Justin,

    Your knowledge is excellent. I’m about 95% committed to buying a new 2011 Forester. I’ve been reading a lot about the Subaru head gasket problem. From what I can figure out the HG problem has occurred in older models. I know there are some changes to the motor for the 2011 Forester and am hoping there will be no HG problem down the road.
    Can you give me your opinion/advise on this purchase.
    Thanks
    Alan from NJ

    1. Alan,

      I am sure someone in sales will tell you its a great design, and new and new is better, but I can only realistically say that Subaru generally does a good job of design. There will always be things that are learned later. To tell you truthfully if its a good engine or not I would need a time machine. I like the where they are going in the design, and Subaru engines have always had great mechanical components such as rings, bearings etc. I don’t know if that helps,if thats really what you are looking for but what it is, is the truth.

      Hope that helps

      Justin

  637. I’ve got a 2004 Forester XT with 84k miles on it. I read all over your excellent advice above and was hoping to get your take on it. I see that around 2008 you seemed to think the first gen (2003 and 2004) head gasket fix worked, and only the 2002 and earlier where problematic. But in 2009 you seemed to transition to thinking that the pre-2005 head gaskets were problematic. Does that sound right?

    On a trip to Yosemite with a fairly loaded car we did hear some loud knocking for 10s of seconds on a very steep grade. Even after dropping to first gear it required full throttle. It never knocked before or after this event. Normal? Worrisome?

    4 months later on an unusually cold morning (it’s rarely below freezing here) we had to scrape ice off the windshield. We drove 3 miles, as I parked I thought maybe I saw a bit of steam coming out from under the hood, but it was foggy and seemed plausible that it was just water steaming off a warm hood.

    On the way back (3 miles) the radiator cracked, covered the engine bay with coolant, and made impressive clouds. The temp spiked, just below the red, no engine warning lights.

    Our mechanic recommended replacing the radiator, hoses, and thermostat and then seeing what happens. The coolant did initially fail a hydrocarbon test, then with a flush or two passed even after running for awhile.

    After driving normally for 2 weeks (and watching the temp gauge… which has been rock solid @ 45%) we got a check engine light and a flashing cruise light and it looks like cylinder 4 is misfiring. The error reported was CEL=po304. A hydrocarbon test of the coolant came back negative.

    Have you seen a cracked radiator relating to a blown head gasket before? Does this sound like a classic failing head gasket? Do you think maybe a full engine rebuild would be warranted?

  638. I have a ’95 impreza wagon with the 2.2 engine. The Subaru dealer says the head gaskets are starting to ooze coolant, which is dripping on the exhaust pipe. Can I try the Subaru coolant additive that is recommended for the later engines, with any chance of it sealing small gaskets leaks?…the car has 160,000 miles, and I need to keep it going for a while longer until my son goes off to college…

    1. Hi Steve,

      Its really up to you, I know when it comes to the Subaru stop leak its only a very temporary fix if any at all. On the era Subaru you have a coolant leak that will create some pitting in the head or block if it goes to long. I know your looking for something else, but I just dont have anything else for you.

      Justin

  639. Thanks Justin. Awesome answer! i looked again at your posted pictures and you made it very clear diference 🙂 Unless it is aftermarket but in this case it might be different crimps? Thank you! More business to you!

  640. Hello Pzsha,

    We at the shop can tell from the outside weather or not it still has the factory gaskets in it, its done by looking for rivets instead of crimps, its not anything I can explain to you. Instead its only by showing you in person, which isn’t likely and you would really have to do it for a living to really good at spotting which gaskets are installed.

    As far as the timing belt, you need to remove the covers and have a look, the trained eye can tell which belt is installed, but its not possible to tell the age.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  641. Justin,

    I wish your business to prosper further!

    Quick question. I just got 1997 Legacy Outback with 190k on the odometer. Is it possible to tell was head gasket replaced or not by inspecting it from the top? What about timing belt?

  642. Hello Paul,

    You should have a pre-purchase inspection done on any car you purchase and preferably by someone who knows the brand.

    A 2005 can develop an external HG leak, typically oil.

    Hope this Helps

    Justin

  643. Hi Niki,

    I don’t want to discount you situation at all, we still mainly see the 2005 and newer leak oil externally.

    Its typically not a coolant leak, at 62k you should be able to get this covered.

    If it is so bad it needs repairs now it had to have been apparent while still under warranty at under 60k, so unless you have no service records, I think you would have a strong case.

    Justin

  644. Pat,

    Here is a exert from post #1013, but the explanation still applies to your car but you can plug in your own numbers.

    This is my stance on repairing a good car VS Throwing in the Towel.

    “If you have 2 piles of money, say each pile has $30,000.00 in it. Now out of one pile, we keep the 2004 Subaru and maintain and repair it based on a $1500.00 average per year, until it has 300k on the odometer at around the year 2025. We now trade it in for a new technology vehicle in 2025 that runs on hydrogen or the like. Based on a $1500.00 dollar a year average, (the REAL cost of Ownership) on a 5 year old car it will take 20 years to go through the pile of cash. If your car costs less to own you will have more, if it costs more the opposite is true. By the time 2025 rolls around the car will be Worth about $3000.00 at best. You will still have $7,500.00 to use towards a down payment on the new car in 2025.

    Now with the second pile we buy a new car like the one you have right now (I don’t know your intentions) AWD, 5 start crash rating etc. $32k plus tax. Say you receive $10k in trade you are now have $5k left. You will still have some basic ownership costs about $200.00 year one, $400.00 year two. Year 3 or 4 you will buy tires $800.00, brakes $400.00 and pay for a 30,000 mile service which at the Dealership by then will be $1000.00. Year 5, 2015 (if you are lucky) will bring its first repair not covered by a warranty and the $1500.00 a year thing will start to creep up. Year 5 the pile of money is Gone and anything you spend on the “new” car will now cost more than keeping what you had in 2010.

    To get to 2025 in your new car it will cost another $15000.00, In 2025 your new car will be worth $4000.00 to $5000.00 at best

    Now there are a million variations of what I have laid out above. Such as financing the new car and paying interest. I am just laying out the cycle we see, if you WANT a new car go ahead and by all means buy one, I am sure you deserve it, but if what it costs you is more important and your not a Status kind of a guy, you have my thoughts on the matter.”

    Putting $3000.00 into a payed for car is Well Worth it! Cars are not investments, unless you bought it to sell it, what it cost to repair VS the Value of the car have zero to do with each other. Its a fools argument often won by new car Dealerships in order to sell new cars. Can you imagine our ancestors Putting the horse down every time it needed a meal, water or new shoes.

    As far As Subaru goes, and participation there are too many variables.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  645. Hi Nicole,

    I cant really tell you from here what is wrong, but Most likely its the Head Gaskets, there are other possibilities, its just needs to be inspected by someone in the know. I am really not sure why a shop would try 3 thermostats?

    What we find all the time is general repair shops unable to understand how to properly look for exhaust gas present in the cooling system, and as such they never come to the right conclusions until there is just nothing else remaining.

    Justin

  646. I am looking to purchase 2005 Subaru Outback with 2.5L engine around 100k miles. Should I be concerned with head gasket problems on this late model?

  647. Hi justin,
    i posted a couple months ago for my 2005 impreza RS with 60k and internally leaking head gaskets. well, the dealer was excellent, they replaced both head gaskets, installed a new timing belt, thermostat, and accessory gaskets free of charge. i understand the risk behind replacing the gaskets with the same (bad) gasket. and discovered today as i was driving on the highway, going up a long steep grade and sure enough, i look down at the engine temp, and it is almost overheating. i quickly blast the heat and coast and the engine cools after about 5 minutes to where it usually is. i get off at the next exit, and discover that coolant must have been spraying out of the overflow bottle, and the coolant in the overflow was bubbling, and had a white paste on top of it, as well as the losing enough coolant to make the hoses feel empty. after 3,400 miles my head gaskets have failed again. this seems a little extreme, i will be going to the dealer tomorrow. if it is the head gaskets, i will ask if it is possible to use a different gasket and if it is, is there anything else i should be doing? i take excellent care of the car, it is great and i love it.
    Thanks,
    Matt

  648. Well now you can add the 2006 2.5i Outback to the list of Head Gasket problems. Mine has just a little over 62K miles on it – shouldn’t have to replace the headgasket already – do you think? I am contacting Subaru for some compensation – this my 2nd time around – I replaced 2 on my 99 before I learned it was a known problem – fool me once shame on you – well now I guess it is shame on me – eh?

  649. Thanks for the feedback. Let’s assume I can also get the timing belt (which he did agree to), tensioner , idlers, filters, fluids and clutch parts – plus a free rental – is it worth it? I have 99000 miles on the car. Trade in value is around 5K. It is in great shape, and up to now, I figured I could get another 100K miles/10 years – but ~3K is a lot to spend. I am going to call a few places for a second opinion, but am I better off putting that 3K towards a new car? Do I negotiate more from the dealer/Subaru towards the repair? Thanks again for feedback.

  650. Hello! I am stumped here with my 98 Outback Legacy 2.5L. I purchased the vehicle used 2 years ago with about 190k on it. I was aware of some sort of a leak, one shop told me it was grease from the cv, another said it wasnt, said it was oil, but couldnt find the oil leak. I have only had to add oil once between changes. Well, now at about 214k the car overheats once in awhile! It just went 2 weeks with NO problems and then yesterday, temp gauge all the way up, yet cold air is blowing out of the vents. Is this a head gasket or sensor? I have had 3 new thermostats, radiator flushed and checked, also they did a test for fumes that was negative. I am stumped…Please help! Thank you!

  651. Joktela

    The Subaru Factory Head gasket has been up-dated once and once only for the SOHC 2.5l engine.

    The original part number was 11044AA632

    The updated 11044AA633

    We use neither.

    The Heads don’t have to go to a machine shop to be checked for warp, any one with 2 brain cells to rub together a straight edge and and a feeler gauge can check for warp, less than 10% of the head gaskets we repair have warped heads and or block if they do they must be corrected, but its a terrible idea to machine the heads just because..

    .002 is the limit in the Subaru Service manual, if they were at .004 the head gaskets have no chance of sealing.

    If you have some documentation of .004 warp and it not being addressed I would use that to your advantage, if there is no documentation than its your car, while changing the oil every 3k is a good idea, it doesn’t help with coolant leaks, that is either due to the warp or the coolant being contaminated/corrosive.

    I don’t recommend the Head gaskets from Subaru for the reasons you point out for the SOHC engines, We use A MLS Gasket that we have had good success with, but A Subaru Dealer cant and wont use it due to there Franchise agreements, it would be like McDonalds buying hamburger patties from Jack and the Box.

    Where to go from here is tough. if there is no other options for you than the dealer this is where you need to take it, but I don’t know or expect that this time will be much different I am afraid.

    The techs fix the cars the same way each time as quick as possible, you need a good independent shop that takes pride in their work.

    Justin

    1. Talked with SOA customer service and the Daeler. They have agreed to repair the engine again at no cost to me. I also talked them into repairing the right side as I am begining to see some oil at the front of that head. I see you state that coolant system electrolysis contributes to the head gasket problem. We have exerienced this problem in the diesel engines that we repair, but more times than not it has caused a pin hole in the cylinder walls of these engines. I keep close watch of the electrical charge in my antifreeze. Anything over 0.10 volts is not acceptable and the coolant is changed. Would you suggest taking the ground off the left head and relocating it or adding an addition groud circut?

  652. Pat,

    I am a broken Record here.

    What we charge may not be what you will pay in your market. You need to research out the price in you local market to determine if its the right or a fair price.

    You also need to have a clear idea of what is being quoted out, if all it is is the head gasket repair its most likely to high , but if its also a timing belt, tensioner , idlers, filters, fluids and clutch parts its probably fair.

    Justin

  653. Alexander,

    While I realize some have built up the 2.2l as the best thing since sliced bread, and some choose to put in place of the 2.5l mostly in the 1996 to 1999 Legacy Outback where it cam be a direct replacement.

    I personally think it one of the worst idea ever hatched.

    I have yet to see a well done 2.2l swap, as the 2.2l was never available in the Forester its not emissions legal to do that where I live, you need to consult your local laws and see if you are comfortable breaking them.

    The laws are very specific, its illegal to tamper with or alter an OBDII emissions system.

    If you had just had the head gaskets done when it was brought to your attention they needed to be you would be driving your Forester right now and worrying about something else.

    Hope that helps.

    Justin

  654. Hello Susi,

    There are many places it can leak from, it really just needs to be looked at a leak that is pouring out a quart every 200 miles needs to be addressed sooner rather than later, I would suspect a cam seal or crank seal has popped out or something along those lines. I wish I had someone to send you too but I just don’t I am afraid, I would ask your fellow local Subaru Owners where they take their car.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  655. Justin,
    I have a 2003 Outback. I’ve owned the car from new. I am a heavy equipment mechanic/service manager. I have maintained the car as well as all of my cars. The oil has been changed every 3000 miles always using Subaru filters.
    My first headgasket went at 50,000. Left side. Subaru repaired with an updated gasket and also installed a piston. At 100,000 miles the left head gasket leaked antifreeze externally agian. Subaru again repaired with yet another “updated gasket”. I was told that Subaru has updated the gasket three times. I went to the dealership to look at the cylinder head. When I layed a flat edge acrossed the head corner to corner I could not lock down a .004 feeler gauge. The service manager and mechanic stated that Subaru specs are larger and that they don’t need to plane the head. I reluctatley believed them and they continued with the repair. In all my years I have never replaced a head gasket without having a machine shop check and resurface a cyl head. Anyway, My car just turned 125,000 and again I smell antifreeze and see oil dripping from the left head gasket. Antifreeze has been changed regular as well as tune ups always getting my parts from Subaru.
    What is my next move. The car is scheduled to go to the Dealership 1-17-11. I really don’t feel that I should be paying anything. Heck this last repair only made it 25,000 miles!

    Thank You.

  656. I have a 2000 Outback and was just told by my dealer that the head gasket is leaking. They want to charge $2990 to fix! Which seems to be a rather large amount! Doing my research, I just found out about the head gasket issues. I haved always had my car serviced at a subaru shop, mainly this dealership which is where I bought it. The car is in great physical condition. Is this a legitimate cost? Should I look elsewhere? Any options or advice?

  657. Have a 2000 Subaru Forester S. Bought it used, third owner for $4600 on December 9, 2010. 148K miles. Inspecting mechanic notices leakage around the head gasket. I have the coolant replaced. Two weeks later, the engine overheats, melts down, on the high way. Have to have the engine replaced. What do you think of replacing the 2.5L engine with a 2.2L? Is the 2.2L engine more reliable?

  658. I have a Subaru Legacy Outback 1996 with 105K miles. The car is well maintained; replaced battery twice, oil change exactly every 2.5K miles or 3 months, and the timing belt was replaced at approximately 60K miles. That said the car has developed a mild leak accompanied by the smell of burnt oil (with some smoke) after longer driving periods. More recently, the leak has increased to the point of about 1 quart of oil every 200 or so miles. What could this leak be attributed to? I love my car and although she isn’t worth much $$ at this point, considering the rate I drive her I’m hoping for 15 more years! And can you recommend a trustworthy mechanic in the NYC area???

    Thanks!!

  659. Larry,

    I suspect the radiator is restricted, it needs some real evaluation locally though.

    If it had multiple doses of the Subaru Cooing system conditioner it very well could have a restricted radiator and or heater core.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  660. Hi Justin,

    My 2002 Legacy Outback Ltd Wagon had exactly the kind of intermittent overheating problem you described while we were traveling and the independent Subaru specialist we took it to repaired it the way you described.

    Since then, though, the car has overheated differently when we’ve tried 1 hour+ highway trips. It is different in that the temp goes slowly up and stays up but will go down again if I shut off the AC, and will go up even without the AC if I try to pass or am on a hill. The local dealer thinks it was just an air bubble left from the repair and flushed and pressure checked the coolant system and says everything looked fine. But the next time I took it on the highway it did the same thing. Any ideas? I’d love to take it back where I had it fixed before but that is 5 hours away and it’d never make it.

    Thanks for this great website!

  661. Justin,

    Thanks so much for your help. I went ahead and contacted my regular mechanic as well as a local Subaru Dealership and they echoed your concern.

    Armed with all of this information I contacted the insurance company as well as the new mechanic. Despite initial complaints from the insurance company covering the extended power train warranty, the engine was removed and inspected in a method similar to your discussion with Carlos.

    It was the insurance company insisting on the bolt issue, not the mechanic which was my mistake. Lesson learned.

    I’ll try and follow up in a week. It just got out of the machine shop.

    Thanks again,
    Andrew

  662. Hi Andrew,

    No the bolts do not fail, its the gaskets most likely.

    I have a lot of concern about what you are saying here, none of it really makes sense, there is no way to check the head gaskets for cracks without removing them, and the gaskets do not crack anyways. Replacing the head bolts without head gasket replacement is not a good repair by any stretch of the imagination.

    I wish you the best of luck with this, sounds to me like it could be a challenge.

    Justin

  663. I have a 2002 Subaru Outback Legacy. Experienced the typical symptoms you wrote about regarding head gasket problems. It broke down (lost acceleration and overheated) and I took it to a repair shop I am not very familiar with. They told me they checked the head gaskets for cracks etc. but the problem is the bolts, which they are replacing. This is all under extended warranty so I have some concern that the insurance wants them to replace the bolts and not the gaskets with the hope they fail after the warranty has ended and save the replacement cost.

    Is it common for the bolts to fail rather than the gaskets?

  664. Hello Bryan,

    The 3.0l just Does not have the frequency of issues that the 2.5l have had with the head gaskets, they have some other challenges here and there but for the most part have showed thus far to be a better design from the factory utilizing a MLS gasket originally during production, we have repaired a few and I can honestly say the service history in all cases has been anything but stellar. We have a few customers with over 200k on the H6. I will caution that if you do own a 3.0l and engine repairs are needed its very expensive.

    The typical things we see are.

    Some oil leaks at the valve covers and oil cooler o-ring, the accessory belt tensioner and idler pulleys do not last the life of the car, higher brake replacement intervals are the things I would say everyone will develop, each car is a bit different and results can and will vary.

    A good inspection is really the best insurance you can buy that your buying the right car.

    Hope that helps and Happy new year to you as well.

    Justin

  665. Jamie,

    Its always going to happen on cars that are not driven as much, 57k is low miles but the average 2004 vehicle will have much higher miles.

    I really havent seen a 2nd generation fail internally that early but it is possible.

    There is no black and white answer to will Subaru Cover it.

    Its all over the map we have seen some told no at low mileage with good records and some told yes at high mileage with sketchy records, Subaru Policy is interpreted by Humans, if you want help be nice but firm in expressing your concerns.

    Justin

  666. Lawrence,

    You can look into the pcv system, fuel map, try switching types of oil.

    If the oil is being consumed it is either from the flash point dropping quickly due to dilution or worn internals.

    Justin

  667. Hi Justin,
    Am very close to buying a 2003 Outback LL Bean with the H6 3.0L engine I found in Seattle. I have owned ’98 and ’00 OB’s, and know the 2.5L is notorious for the head gasket issue. Does this issue apply to the 2003 3.0L? Are there any other major differences/problem areas we should be aware of between the 2.5L’s we are familiar with and the 3.0L found in the 2003 OB LL Bean Edition? We are hoping to bring it to your shop for a pre-purchase inspection, but am just curious if there is anything else I can do in the meantime to be more knowledgeable about the issues. Thank you so much for your help! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

  668. Hello,
    Head gasket failed at 130,000. Its a 2006 forester non turbo. Would subaru cover this under warranty? Also a local shop wants to charge 1500 for the repair. I live in east TN.
    Mark

  669. I have a 2004 Subaru forester with 57000 miles on it. I was having intermittent heating problems during long trips. I took it in to my local mechanic who suggested I replace the thermostat. I did, at a total diagnosis and repair cost of $220. The heating continued, so I took it in to Subaru who said there is a possible head gasket issue. They said the repair would be about $2000, depending on the severity. I find it insane that this would occur with such low mileage and regular maintenance. The issue is, I bought this car in Canada, but it is an American-sold car originally. I want to write a letter asking for assistance with repairs. Should I contact Subaru Canada or Subaru USA?

  670. Hello
    I discovered your site on the Samba.com a VW site. I drive a Vanagon (sorry) WITH a 2.2 Subaru 1990 motor, mileage unknown, all factory set up except for a 135 Amps alternator and an oil cooler. This engine burns oil faster than I can drink JD. Short of a rebuilt, rings, pistons or whatever is there some modest mean to reduce this oil consumption. I do not have a significant oil leak (as compared to my past and present British cars, that is) Highway driving I am talking of a quart for ~200 miles :((.

    Any advice will be appreciated

    Thanks and Happy New Year

  671. Hi Laura,

    We see mostly oil leaks on the 2005 and newer, this is partly because of a better understanding of the required coolant, more ground straps, and better Dealer and independent shops alike knowing what should be done when.

    We usually suggest monitoring the oil leaks until they become worse to the point where it is geting onto the exhaust and causing an odor. this applies to most situations and as long as the car is just being used locally and we can keep an eye on it at the proper oil change intervals, once it leaks coolant, or is going to to be taken on a road trip it needs to be fixed.

    I dont have a suggestion for a shop I am afraid, and I cant figure out what flex part costs $175.00 either.

    Sorry

    Justin

  672. Hello Karl,

    If the exhaust wasnt removed ro make the repairs, and if they were don in the car it will stink for a bit.

    Its good to be cautious though, everyone is capable of a mistake.

    Justin

  673. Jud,

    Sorry about the timing of my replay but I had to spend some time with the family,

    Sounds to me like the coolant cross over pipe or the upper hose has a drip, look from the top down.

    Justin

  674. Hi, Justin.

    I’ve read through the whole blog. Thank you for this great resource! I have an 05 Forester and was just told by the dealer that I need to have the HG replaced and that they will use SOA funding support so that my cost will be $550. I’ve seen you say several times that the trouble you’ve seen with the 05’s is oil not coolant leakage…but I don’t know what that means in terms of whether I need to have the job done. Are you saying that an oil – not coolant – leak is ok? (They showed me driver’s side leakage – didn’t seem to be much, but there was definitely something there. Less leakage on the right side.) They also are encouraging me to have the timing belt done at the same time (for $90 bc the engine’s already taken apart). I have just under 70k miles on this car.

    And I guess while I’m at it, I’ll ask about the other recommended service: there’s a “frozen” something (sorry – gasket or something) in the middle of the exhaust system. It’s supposed to bend/flex to relieve stress and torque on the rest of the system. $175 for the replacement.

    Do you know of any independent Subaru shops in NH?

    Thanks in advance.

  675. Justin:
    The leak was just a loose upper radiator hose clamp. Engine sounds good, is not overheating any longer, powerful and more throttle response (probably because of the valve cleaning and adustment. However, the engine is idleing about 1000 RPM higher than before, at about 1700 or so, comes down to 1000 when in gear at a stop light (automatic trans.) Could the timing belt being off a tooth or two cause this problem? Seems like it’s timing related, I’ve disconnected the battery several times hoping the computer might straighten out the problem to no avail. Thanks for your wonderful service!

  676. As many others have said, thanks for the great resource.

    I just had the head gaskets done on my 99 Forester L with 70k. I am the second owner. I was noticing a slight smell of coolant, coupled with random overheating. The temp gauge never pegged in the red, and the coolant never boiled over (at least for me). An independent Denver subi shop with a great reputation did the repair, and ticked all the boxes you recommend.

    So, the question: After the repair, I smell coolant everywhere – cabin, engine bay, exhaust. They pulled and drained the engine, so the shop seems to think that it is just a matter of coolant being spilled which will resolve after the car is driven for a few days. Temp gauge is normal. Coolant level does not seem to be dropping. I have not noticed anything on the floor of the garage.

    Does their explanation sound reasonable? I have a road trip through the southern mtns in CO coming up in a few days, and am slightly leery about taking the car. Any way to test this?

    Thanks in advance,

    Karl

  677. Justin:

    Thanks so much for this wonderful free service. I thought I sumitted a reply this morning, but I don’t see it posted. If it duplicates, I apologize. Anyway, 97 Legacy outback, 2.5, dirty coolant, when engine heats up, cylinder pressure entering coolant channel and blowing reserve coolant tank lid off and such. I researched a lot, purchased the subaru brand head gasket, pulled the engine myself, put it on a stand, removed the old gaskets, replaced with OeM gaskets from ssubaru dealer, but didn’t treat the gaskets with copper or any other sealant, and used old bolts. When I took the heads off, I noticed the bolts seemed way tight! I had a machine shop take out warpage from the heads by shaving off .008 inch off each. When I replaced the gasket and then went through the torque process, I noted that the bolts were much tighter when I removed them then when I reinstalled them. I resealed the water pump, was going to replace but couldnt find the right one locally, the timing belt appeared new so didn’t replace it or the pulleys or idlers. May do that later if I actually fix the leaky head gasket problem. I put the engine in the car yesterday and filled with oil, started it, and was happy to hear it fire right up. Then turned off and began to fill with coolant, and noticed a drip of coolant coming from the passenger side of the engine, a drip coming from between the forward facing surface of the head and the timing cover? What in the world? I am thining I must have missed an obvious seal or something. I will remove everything in front of the engine and the crankshaft pulley then the inner timing cover to see if I can see what is the problem. I just can’t imagine where it is coming from other than the head gasket???? I noticed you suggest against using an allready crushed head gasket, so I REALLY hope I don’t have to remove the engine again and the heads, or else I will have to buy the $100 gaskets again! Do you have any idea where it may be coming from? Have you seen that before? Did I blow it by not using copper spray on the gaskets? Could my bolts have been stretched so far that they are not sealing the gasketed junction? Any help/advice I would really appreciate. If I need more gaskets I will order them from you. Thanks in advance! Jud

  678. Justin: Thanks for everything. Great site. 97 legacy outback, dirty coolant. Pulled the engine myself, put it on a stand, got the updated tri metal gaskets at the dealer, installed them myself, resealed the water pump, the timing belt and sprockets were new, just re installed them. I did not use any copper or sealant of any sort on the head gaskets. Reinstalled motor yesterday. It started right up and sounded good. Began adding coolant to the radiator, and have a drip appearing to come from the front of the passenger side head, eminating from between the timing cover and the head on the pass side. Not even under any pressure yet! Needless to say very disappointing, but will remove the radiators and fans and power steering pump and perhaps alternator, belts and crankshaft pulley tomorrow so I can have a look at where it is coming from. I just can’t seem to imagine where it could be coming from? I imagine I overlooked something obvious, but I thought I did the same as on the drivers side and no leaks there yet? Have you seen this before? Where could it be coming from? I shudder to think it is leaking through the head gasket. That would mean pulling the engine again, and buying another set of head gaskets! I followed the torquing proceddure exactly, but didn’t get new bolts. I did notice that they were way over torqued when I took them off, and when I torqued them correctly after replacing, they were not as tight as when I took them off. Wonder if my bolts are too stretched? Either way, if I have to remove the heads again, I will need new Head Gaskets? Thanks for any help!!

  679. Hello Doug,

    The only gasket available to the Dealer is the updated one as long as they are buying their parts From Subaru. The last 3 digits are 610

    I try not to comment on price but for what you are telling me they are doing I would suggest it sounds fair, I am also happy to see they will pull the engine, based on that I think they are approaching it correctly.

    The torque procedure confuses most Techs, so I cant really try and explain it here. It was on the site once, but it just take to much to try and explain it, I had to delete the post.

    As far as questions.

    Is the Thermostat being done, will they inspect the idlers, hoses, accessory belts. Will they check the heads and block for warp? I really could go on for a bit here.

    But having said that, at the Dealer you will speak to the Service Advisor, his job is to be the buffer between you and the Technician. All the questions in the world wont define the repair, the workmanship of the Technician working on the car, and your willingness to have it done correctly is what is needed. There are so many ways that this may not happen but mostly money related. If the tech wants to do idlers, hoses, or a knock sensor, but the Advisor sensed it may be difficult to approach you about additional items after the engine has been taken out and apart, he will relay that to the Tech and may not try and call you or call and roll over if you express displeasure, now the Tech is worried about the check engine light coming on because he Sneezed on the knock sensor, or a tiny coolant bypass hose not staying sealed or an idler making a whining noise you didn’t hear before and the stress level goes up, and the possibility goes up of the repair quality suffering, in part because some items are neglected, and in part because the Tech feels there hands have just been tied and now the car will most likely come back after the repairs.

    I guess what I am saying is maybe rather than questioning them, you really will get better service if you say ” I really want this car to last, while I dont want to spend my life savings fixing it, I am open to things that will help ensure a proper repair” “I am trusting you do do the best you can, I want it to last”.

    We have customers from different walks of life, the ones that come in here with the “please just take care of me attitude” receive the best service we can provide. If I communicate to the Tech this customer wants it done correctly, “if you see anything else just let me know”

    There is a chance the Tech washes the car when he is done, he is Proud of it.

    I hope that helps, and yes the block would be done by the time you got here.LOL

    Justin

  680. Hi Michael,

    I dont know if you will see in money from Subaru, there are just too many variables.

    From reading these posts you can see some have success and others don’t, the experience is the same at our shop for our local customers, which is why we really moved towards coming up with a solution and not just a repair for those who want it.

    I think its worth your time, but if you dont receive help, I would look for a Independent shop to be involved if that is possible.

    Justin

  681. Thanks for making this information available. I limped my 97 Outback to the nearest dealer after I smelled a hint of coolant through the vents. Exhaust in the expansion tank. They said they would probably start dropping the engine on Wednesday. The dealer has been in business since 1971.

    What sort of questions should I ask to make sure this is a good place to get the gaskets replaced at? Machining questions, torque procedure etc? They *are* removing the engine from the car, which I know is fundamental, and replacing the water pump, timing belt and some other parts for about $1800. Would it be good to ask what part number the gasket being used is, or are they all the updated gasket now? What part # is the best?

    Basically I want to make sure the repair is all it can be. This car is in good mechanical shape and doesn’t deserve to die young, but it scares me when I see improper repairs not lasting. What list of “proper procedure” questions would you ask a mechanic replacing the head gaskets on your Subaru?

    If I weren’t 2,400 miles away I’d simply drop it off with AWD Auto. 🙂 Block might be slightly warped at that point…

  682. A lot of good info here. I have a 2003 Forester which had the HGs replaced under warantee at 55,000 miles (March ’07). It now has 112,000 and the left rear area HG is leaking both oil and coolant. I do all of my own maintenance and have the records/receipts. Would I be wasting my breath to try and get Subaru to make good on their repair? (same dealer that did the original work).

  683. I have a 2005 Forester with 52,000 miles that right head gasket is leaking.Dealer says they are just starting to get 2005’s in with same problem.This seems to be a commmon problem with Subaru’s and dealer says it is the horizontal design and Colorado weather constantly changing from hot to cold. Over $2,000 to replace both but I did get a heavy good will discount as have bought other Subaru’s there. My 1998 Subaru had similar problems. Not sure if my next car will be a Subaru.

  684. John,

    The Cats are under the Federal Emissions warranty until 80k, its not an extended Warranty its the Law the computer is also covered under this law as are a few other components.

    I am not sure why the take the chance on it going to 90k stance though, if its just a minor oil leak and if you are only going to use the vehicle locally I guess that may work out ok, but as soon as it turns to oil and coolant, or internal it needs to be done or if you need to use it for a roads trip it should be done.

    I cant tell if you mean to much to maintain going forward or it has been too much to maintain thus far.

    Here is where we will also differ. I have tried lately to get this point across to readers, so here is a different spin.

    It is broad based and not directed at you, its for you to read and anyone else that finds the post as well.

    When you are of the opinion that a car costs too much to maintain or repair you are thinking emotionality more so than logically. Fear of the unknown repair costs VS payments and a warranty. What you are doing with a new car is PAYING for the right to have a warranty and a new Stereo, with maybe a little better fuel economy.

    If you have 2 piles of money, say each pile has $30,000.00 in it. Now out of one pile, we keep the 2004 Subaru and maintain and repair it based on a $1500.00 average per year, until it has 300k on the odometer at around the year 2025. We now trade it in for a new technology vehicle in 2025 that runs on hydrogen or the like. Based on a $1500.00 dollar a year average, (the REAL cost of Ownership) on a 5 year old car it will take 20 years to go through the pile of cash. If your car costs less to own you will have more, if it costs more the opposite is true. By the time 2025 rolls around the car will be Worth about $3000.00 at best. You will still have $7,500.00 to use towards a down payment on the new car in 2025.

    Now with the second pile we buy a new car like the one you have right now (I don’t know your intentions) AWD, 5 start crash rating etc. $32k plus tax. Say you receive $10k in trade you are now have $5k left. You will still have some basic ownership costs about $200.00 year one, $400.00 year two. Year 3 or 4 you will buy tires $800.00, brakes $400.00 and pay for a 30,000 mile service which at the Dealership by then will be $1000.00. Year 5, 2015 (if you are lucky) will bring its first repair not covered by a warranty and the $1500.00 a year thing will start to creep up. Year 5 the pile of money is Gone and anything you spend on the “new” car will now cost more than keeping what you had in 2010.

    To get to 2025 in your new car it will cost another $15000.00, In 2025 your new car will be worth $4000.00 to $5000.00 at best

    Now there are a million variations of what I have laid out above. Such as financing the new car and paying interest. I am just laying out the cycle we see, if you WANT a new car go ahead and by all means buy one, I am sure you deserve it, but if what it costs you is more important and your not a Status kind of a guy, you have my thoughts on the matter.

    Thanks for Reading

    Justin

  685. Andy

    The newer Subaru models also have better fuel economy than the 1999 Forester does. It’s the CAFE Standard that drives it.

    Congrats on the new car, I would encourage to you to post in 3 to 5 years about your experiences with the KIA, and than after the vehicle is 13 years of age as well.

    The only real problem I have with the Sorento is the 3 star mark on the rollover rating.

    I also want you to understand, that KIA dealerships work exactly the same way as the Subaru Dealership does, if a Dealer makes a repair after the car is out of warranty it is up to the dealer to stand behind their work and NOT KIA.

    Find the Best Dealership to take it to if you don’t want to have a better level of service at the good independent shops out there.

    Justin

  686. Justin,
    Thank you for performing this valuable, and free, service to the Subaru community! For the record, our 2004 Outback with 73K was diagnosed with a left side head gasket oil leak. My mechanic says it’s not too bad and drive the car until 90K, then perform a major service including the timing belt and gaskets, of course keeping track of the oil level. What do you think? Also for the record, both CATS were replaced at 45K (covered under extended warranty, that would have been a $2000 repair). In my opinion, this car is too expensive to maintain based on these 2 issues alone. Keep up the good work.—John Seattle, WA

  687. Justin thank you for your reply to my 11/24 post.

    When reading it I noticed that there was a typo – my curent mileage is a little over 200k.

    I would expect more from Subaru to stand behind their repairs. The head gasket leak appeared 5 DAYS after the 1 year warranty periond. Anyone with any sense would realize that the symptoms appeared 5 days after, however, the underlying problem was brewing long before that – in other words – the failure started during the warranty period.

    But lets not split hairs on this one. After calling 1-800-subaru3 and filing a complaint, and, when the dealer ALL OF A SUDDEN realized that the symptoms occured 5 days after the warranty expiration, the dealer re-contacted the factory service representative who AGAIN rejected the request.

    At this point the car is undrivable. 1-800-subaru3 MIGHT offer me a percentage reimbursement towards a repair, however, at this point I am resigned to NEVER BUY another subaru again.

    I am leasing a new Kia Sorrento which has more cargo room and amenities and gets better gas mileage.

    Subaru just lost a customer.

  688. Paul,

    I just cant comment on price, I have found it varies greatly form state to state, and shop to shop.

    If you want to know how much its going to cost her in her local market you will have to do some research.

    Checking thew cooling system for voltage, figuring out at what point the oil and coolant begin to become contaminated and than maintaining it based on these events will decrease the likelihood of head gasket failure in the future.

    Justin

  689. Janette,

    This comes up daily, I keep telling my self and posting that I cant comment accurately on price, but here I go again.

    With out you sending me a estimate, and me knowing what the going labor rate is , I just cant answer that factually, but yes it does seem somewhat high, but I don’t have the facts so I may be incorrect.

    Justin

  690. HI Ken,

    Yes we have seen it, but it has not been that common on the second generation 2.5l as of yet. I had been concerned with the California emissions equipped cars such as the 03 and 04 models with EGR. (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)

    It can be corrected by a good machinist with an over sized guide.

    Having said that most dealers will just sell new heads, its most likely not going to happen to both heads, but since it does have to come apart it would be wise.

    How it would be done here was to send the heads out for repairs and let the machinist correct the guides as needed, this would keep the costs down as much as possible.

    Typical head repair cost for both is about $600.00 including oversized guides. This is above and beyond the head gasket replacement price.

    I don’t think the Dealer would go that route, but you might ask.

    Best of luck

    Justin

  691. Hi Bryan,

    You have a lot of questions and all I can really tell you is all you can do is the best you can to try and remove as much of the gamble out of the purchase as possible by having a good pre purchase inspection.

    An individual selling a car and telling you he has done this or that without even a receipt for parts is kind of a red flag.

    There are Subaru Shops down in that area, I dont have a comment either way about the quality of their inspections and or repairs.

    Justin

  692. Also, what about synthetics in the Subaru like this? How about BG products to help extend life in any of the systems? I use some in my Toyotas. Obviously the Subarus have some idiosyncrasies related to the water cooled horizontally opposed engine. Not like my idiosyncrasy free 1970 horizontally opposed air cooled Bug. Ha.
    Thanks,
    Paul

  693. Hi Justin,
    So glad to find your website and all the input. I have a little automotive background and received a call from my newly divorced sister in Michigan who is having problems with her 2004 Outback. She has headgaskets leaking externally and has been given a repair cost from a dealer of $1700-2100, depending on if the heads need to be resurfaced. Great info in your postings on the specifics related to horizontal design and fluids as well as the tranny flush issue which I had suggested she do faithfully. She has 124,000 miles and is trying to figure out what to do. Here are my questions: Price for head gasket job? Believe it is a 2.5 motor. Likelihood of need for head resurfacing? Updated head gaskets for the 2004? Tranny care suggestions from 124k miles on up? Coolant care instructions to minimize electrolysis and corrosion? Loved your explanation about the battery corrosion and ground issue. Rear sway bar link problems on these? Any other suggestions on care to avoid further head gasket issues for her?
    thanks so much,
    Have an awesome Christmas.
    Paul

  694. Hello,

    I have a 2002 Subaru Outback with 68,000 miles on it. We bought it used almost five years ago with 41K miles on it. I’ve been told by the dealer that it needs new cylinder head gaskets at a price of $2,950. And a new exhaust system at a price of $1,588. Do these prices seem high to you? Thanks!

  695. hey need help. 98 outback 2.5 overheating, ifs its my head gaskets would it do it all the time or could it be intermitent. put new thermostat, water pump, checked radiator does not appear to be cloged up. will it cause compression in radiator and will there be any performance issues

  696. Also, we have come across a private seller with a ’98 Legacy outback with 122k, and says he has service records for H2O pump, timing belt, HG done at 120k…I guess I’m looking for advice for a young couple on a budget…what year(s) should we look for / which year(s) should we avoid if we want a reliable older vehicle that will most likely be the least pain in the @ss to deal with in the future. Unfortunately in our price range, 99% of the vehicles we can afford fall into the HG prone years (97-2003). Should we go for a vehicle with higher miles that has already had the HG’s replaced, or try to find a vehicle closer to or under 100k figuring we will most likely need to replace them in the near future? Should we save up another few months so we can afford an ’03-05 for about $10,000?

    Thank you again for your time and we anxiously await your advice!

  697. Hi Justin,
    I have a 2002 Outback with the 2.5L engine.It has 130,000 miles on it (I’m the original owner). Driving to work last week my check engine light started to blink,when I came to a stop the engine was running rough. Took the car to the Sub.dealer and they found that the valve guides in the pass.side cyl.head had shifted and are keeping the valves from closing properly.I stopped by the shop and they showed me this by lowering the exhaust pipe.The drivers side guides were tight in position but the pass side had “walked out”. They have recommended replacing the pass side head and replacing the drivers side HG (which is leaking a bit). My questions are: Have you seen this type of thing happen? Is it ok to replace just one head? Seems like light mileage for this type of thing to happen. I respect your advise.Thanks.
    Ken

  698. We are looking at buying a used Subaru in the next few weeks, and were hoping you might be able to point us in the right direction. We are considering a 98 Forester(108k, $5,000), a 99 Legacy Outback(99k, $6,000), and a 02 Outback(118k, $6,800) – basically the only cars in our price range (under $7,500). We live close by in Olympia, Wa, and are looking at cars in both Seattle and Portland. Anyway, the 02 and 99 are in Portland and the dealer (Antech Auto) says they have just replaced the timing belt, H2O pump, and head gaskets, but when I called he said they had done the work themselves but did not have documentation of the work – he then told me he could come up with documentation stating they had completed the work. Does this sound shady or is it standard practice? Regardless we want to have any car we buy inspected by a 3rd party before purchase. Since we live in WA, we don’t know any reputable Suby mechanics in Portland. Could you recommend one? Also, will a mechanic be able to tell us from a routine inspection if the headgaskets, waterpump, timing belt have indeed been replaced, or does that require getting into the engine itself?
    Should I ask them to sign papers stating their work, or demand some type of warrantee/guarantee? Would SOA be able to work with us if we bought a used vehicle and needed HG replacements (either under or over 100k).
    What can we do to make sure we’re not buying a car that will require hundreds or thousands of $$$ in costly repairs in the near future?

    Also, I guess I might as well ask if you could recommend a Suby dealer in/near the Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia area where we might be able to find a used car without having to worry about or question major engine problems for the next 3-5 years of owning the vehicle?

    Absolutely love your site and am glad I stumbled upon it before we decided to buy anything.

    Thank you for your time and we look forward to hearing from you!

  699. Hi John,

    If the car suits your needs, fix it, if it doesn’t, don’t.

    $2500.00 is less than the first year depreciation on any new car you buy and now you can make payments for 5 to 6 years, or loose out on 30k in the bank you could have earned interest on.

    Cars are not assests they are tools it will cost you much lees to repair what you already own I promise.

    Justin

  700. Jonathan,

    The 1999 Impreza Outback Should have a 2.2l which has a less likely chance of having a headgasket issue.

    But you really should have a pre purchase inspection performed.

    Justin

  701. Hi Justin,
    I am considering buying a 98 Outback Limited with 168K on the odometer. It appears to be in excellent shape and is being sold at a fair price. It started life as a leased vehicles, and has had 3 owners since then. I own a 2004 Outback with an H6 that I love and would like to add this other vehicle to the family. Can I assume that if the 98 hasn’t already had the HG replaced, it will fail on me, or is it more likely that if the HG hasn’t failed by now, I can still get to 250k? Thanks, I know I’m looking for crystal ball type info.

  702. Hi Justin,
    Like many others I am now facing cylinder head gasket replacement on my 2004 Outback 2.5 with 75K miles. My independent Subaru shop says the problem is just starting with some slight seepage and the engine should be good for another 25K before repairs should be done. They want to remove the engine and do the repair properly and while at it replace the timing belt, etc for a total cost of $2,500.00. Does that sound reasonable or should I just trade the car in now and buy a new car.
    car.
    Thanks,
    John

  703. i am about to purchase a 1999 subaru impreza outback sport. 70k miles, 5spd from a used car dealership. Ive been hearing soo much about the infamous head gasket. Would you be able to suggest things that i would be able to look into myself at the dealership and before, during, and after the test drive to make sure i dont get handed over a problem child. I am looking to keep this car for 5yrs or better if it lasts and therefore i am going with the good reliable AWD track record as my comfort in this buy. It would be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you

  704. HI Andy,

    Im sorry that you havent been able to achieve any type of longevity with the repairs you have had done.

    Once the Car is out of Subaru’s warranty it is up to the Dealer ship to stand behind there work.

    Good will from Subaru would be if the car had 65k and was just out of the power-train Warranty and Subaru offered to pay the Dealership to make the repairs.

    And Yes there is a limit of Good will that any Dealership or Car maker will offer. It is all about numbers and profits. If a Dealer is at the end of the goodwill money they have, there is no more left.

    The Dealership is a Franchise like a Mcdonalds and just like a Mcdonalds there are good, well run franchises and some poorly run dirty locations as well.

    While I realize that it says Subaru on the door. I would suggest you take a minute and evaluate why you have let the Dealership be the only place you have ever had your car serviced. It sounds to me like if you had gained some longevity out of the Repairs you wouldnt be as upset about the money spent. Im just not sure how we can put all of that on Subaru not building a good car.

    A car has many systems, sounds like you have mostly had trouble with one system, and with the same repair done multiple times at a Dealership by a guy in a hurry. I can also tell you there is a very very limited labor pool.

    From your Post, your 1999 Subaru went 131k before needing anything major done ($1700.00). I wish you the absolute best of luck repeating that with your next car purchase especially if it has a High crash rating and All Wheel Drive.

    I would also encourage you to spend some time browsing the Forums for any car model that you are considering.

    When the dust settles and you are in a new car, do your self a favor and seek out a good independent shop to be PART of your Vehicle maintenance plan. I really feel strongly if you had at a minimum every other service done by an independent Shop your total Subaru Experience would have been much different.

    Justin

  705. This post is in regards to internal head gasket repairs made by my Subaru dealer.

    NOTE-the ONLY place that I have taken my Forrester to is the dealer, regioulsy adhering to the maintenace schedule for the vehicle.

    My head gasket is now failing for the 3rd time and I am VERY disapointed in the feedback that I am getting from the dealer and also Subaru customer support.

    I had my head gasket replaced on my 99 Forrester @131k miles for $1700 and thought it would last another 100(at least!). It failed 34k miles later @175k FOR THE SAME REASON AND SYMPTOMS of the 131k repari.

    I was in a bind not wanting to be FORCED into purchasing a new vehicle, so, I took the plunge AGAIN in the hope that this would do it and I could get the expected 100k additional miles.

    Well, I am @ 299k EXPERIENCING THE SAME PROBLEM 24k miles after the repair .

    The dealer warranties the repair for 1yr, I noticed the symptoms 5 days after the warranty expired and my earliest appointment was for 5 days after that.

    The dealer is now telling me that its out of warranty. I complained to them and they reached out to their field representative and he told them that ‘based on the age and year of the vehicle there is nothing that he can do’.
    I was then told to contact Subaru customer service @ 800-SUBARU3 . To my dismay, the representative is playing hardball, making comments that ‘the field rep has the final say’, ‘there is a limit to the amount of good-will that we can issue’ etc. To say the least, I am pissed!
    I love this car, and, if this is not worked out, I will never buy another Subaru again, I will let all my friends and relatives know of this experience as well and will probably initiate some kind of internet compaign.

  706. Justin,
    Right now I am debating if spending 1500.00 (as quoted by my Subaru dealer) on a car that as of right now, isn’t worth the 600.00 tires that I just put on it. I’m just wondering if I should put that money toward a newer car and count my losses. It has 204000 miles on it as of now and I’m not sure if it is worth the money to repair it. Subaru also has a service department, LOL. I’ve been going back and forth all day as to what to do.

  707. Hi Danielle,

    I just want to make sure I understand correctly, you made it 13 years and 203,000 miles before needing a head gasket repair, and you believe A $30,000.00 Honda (plus interest) will require less money spent on it over the next 12 years and 200,000 miles?

    I would encourage you to head over to some of the Honda & Acura Forums and see how the owners feel about Transmission issues.

    Then Talk to me about reliability…

    Bottom line is that every Honda dealership has a service department.

    Some cars are in for warranty work some for customer pay work.

    While I am sorry your Forester didn’t meet your expectations, I would also caution you could be setting yourself up for a bigger headache.

    Justin

  708. I have a 1998 Subaru Forester L and at 203000 miles the head gasket is leaking. It weird how it happened. i had the thermostat changed just because it has never been done. Just as routine maintenance. Well it starting overheating instantly. I took it back and they said the head gasket is leaking air into the cooling system. Apparently this has been an ongoing issue with Subaru. I called Subaru of America and complained. Due to the fact that this is an issue that they can’t seem to fix, I will not be purchasing another Subaru. It seems I will purchasing a Honda as tey are more reliable.

  709. This is a followup on my post 805 dated May 23rd, 2010 at 9:08 pm, about my 2001 Forester with a replacement head gasket failure. I called SOA to describe the situation. I mentioned that over the years I’d had $7000 of maintenance performed on that car by that dealer, including the 60K and 90K work (in addition to other work done at other places), and that this was the 3rd Subaru my family had owned. SOA said that I didn’t need to follow up with a letter and that they would call the dealer. They offered $500 towards the repair, leaving me to pay only $150.

    SOA is excellent. It’s looking like my next car may be a Subaru also.

  710. Hi Sudie,

    The lower mileage vehicles suffer it the worst actually, its because it doesnt get used properly and because its never maintained based on how its used.

    The car is 10 years old, and should of had 4 or 5 cooling system services done by now, and the oil needs to be changed every 3 to 4 months, not based on mileage.

    What you have been informed of is WWP-99, it was a cooling system conditioner that was added to the cooling system coupled with stretching out the head gasket warranty past the 5 year 60k mark to 8 years or 100k.

    Technically a 2001 is out of the extended warranty, but its always worth a call to SOA, but be prepared to show proof of a 30k service, a 60k service, plus documentation that it has in fact had the cooling system conditioner installed at some point in its life, when you had your 60k service done( well I am assuming you have) it should of had O.E Subaru coolant and Subaru coolant conditioner put in, this would of only happened at a Subaru Dealer or a Subaru independent Repair shop as we are the only ones who are in the know.

    Justin

  711. Sheila,

    If you decide to not fix it you need to move on away from the car, as you will eventually damage the engine if you dont correct a head gasket leaking coolant. It will eventually leak internally as well and damage the motor, if it doesnt overheat prior to that occurrence which can also damage the engine.

    Its like letting your roof leak with the plan to just place a bucket under the drip, it will also damage the rafters, and sheet rock as the water slowly leaks in and damages your house.

    If you want 40k out of the Car, find a version of our shop where you live have them take out the engine and do both sides with the MLS gasket we use here at the shop, stay away from the Dealers doing one side at a time in the car and be done with the head gasket issue. This is my advice if you are footing the bill, get as much Value for the money as you can.

    Plan B would be to let the Dealer try at it again I guess.

    Justin

  712. Bob,

    You never have the issue with the 2007 Forester especially if you keep up on coolant and oil changes.

    As far as prices, I really have to try and stay away from this. I dont want anyone reading feeling like they got a great or awful price after reading this. There can be as much as $1000.00 difference in price from the states with the lowest labor costs, and no Dealer bump list, as compared to States with labor rates as high as $120.00 an hour and a Subaru Dealer bump Matrix pricing plan on parts.

    Justin

  713. Maria,

    You dont have to go to a Subaru Dealer to get a good alternator, just know what is being installed on your car, and ask if O.E parts can be substituted if aftermarket ones are what were originally quoted.

    Justin

  714. I have a 2001 Forester L. I purchased the car five years ago from a 92 year old gentleman who loved this car. At that time it had 34,000 miles on it. It now has 66,000 miles. The car has never overheated and I’ve never had any problems with it. Recently the check engine light came on. When I took it to be checked, the mechanics found coolant leaking and are now telling me I need to have the head gasket replaced. They said it is not common to see a blown head gasket with such low mileage and suggested I ask Subaru of America to help cover the repair cost. My question to you is, do you think it’s unusual to see this problem with only 66,000 miles? Have you ever heard of any recall for this part and have you heard of the Subaru Corporation helping foot the repair cost for this problem? Thank you. Sudie

  715. Thanks for the great info!

    My 2003 Subaru Legacy wagon now has nearly 160,000 miles on it. I’ve had both head gaskets replaced once already – one at 86,000 miles and the other at 105,000 miles (wish I could remember which was replaced first). Both were replaced by a local Subaru dealer under warranty (many thanks to SoA).

    I’ve been noticing that sweet smell lately and today my mechanic informed me that the left head gasket is indeed leaking again. Is this something that would be covered under warranty again?

    If I choose not to fix it (which will run me at least $1000 if not covered under warranty), what can I expect? I’d love for the car to last at least another 40,000 miles! I know that I can add coolant periodically – but the leak isn’t bad enough yet that I’ve had to do this. (Oh, and it’s leaking both oil and coolant.)

    Thanks,
    Sheila

  716. Justin,
    Great website! I own three Subaru vehicles and have questions concerning two of them..
    My 97 Outback 2.5 has 139k and I am having the timing belt, water pump,cam seals,and other items related to this PM performed. In addition I am going to have the head gasket replaced(even though I have not had any problems. I plan to have this work done at a reputable independent shop. In your opinion what would a proper price be for this?
    My second questions concerns my 2007 Forester. I currently have 130k on it(highway miles). At what point do you reccomend the same PM to be performed..I only use Subaru coolant in these vehicles.. Thanks…

  717. Hi Justin;
    Well I went to the Subaru dealer for the repair and guess what, SOA kicked in $500.00 for the repair of the head gasket as it was leaking internal and external. And it was outside of the warranty on both miles and years. whoop tee doo for my subaru 😉
    Debbie

  718. Thanks for your response!

    You are correct that the original Alternator lasted 9 years and the new one only one year.

    I think I will go to a Subaru dealer to look things over. I really don’t want to get rid of my car. The reason I haven’t gone to the Subaru dealer before is distance BUT it may be time to make that trip work.

    THANKS again for your advice!

  719. Hi Greg,

    $1600 to $1800.00 sounds reasonable.

    One major point of concern is the all metal radiator.. If its aluminum its ok, if its not and instead made from Copper and brass its a terrible idea and I really suggest you replace it with a KOYO.

    If you use the Gaskets we sell there is no reason for any chemical conditioner or special coolant, if you use the Updated Subaru head gasket for the 2000 and newer than yes you must use Subaru Coolant and conditioner.

    I hope that helps

    Justin

  720. John,

    I am a broken Record here.

    The value of the car VS the cost to repair have nothing to do with each other if you think it through to conclusion.

    Unless you bought the car with the intent to flip it for profit, what its worth to sell VS the cost to keep it on the road are 2 totally separate issues. The best case scenario to your bank account should be your concern

    Your choices are

    1. Fix what you have at a fixed cost that you will be aware of before proceeding with a warranty and you already know the rest of the car.

    2. Buy a Used car you really know nothing about and gamble. Most likely you will pay more for a “new to you” used car than to repair what you already own, unless you are looking for the rare gem that everyone else is in the market for, the 10 year old $1000.00 car that sips gas, and never needs work.

    3. Buy a new car and loose more money in depreciation as you take the first right hand turn out of the dealers lot than you will put into your car over the next 5 years, and then the car payments kick in 30 days later for the next 7 years, don’t forget about the increased insurance costs!

    4. A bus pass

    If you like your car, & would drive it tomorrow if it didn’t need repairs, fix it! If it no longer suits your needs, if you need a larger vehicle, or a truck than don’t repair it, repairing it offers you no value if it doesn’t suit your needs use the fact that it needs this work as the excuse to move on, its a legitimate one.

    Those are my thoughts I hope it helps

    Justin

  721. Hi Maria,

    A few concerns is that the original Alternator lasted 9 years and the replacement 1 year? This leads me to believe that O.E. Subaru parts are not being used and it only costs more in the long run to go this route.

    We see lots of the 6 cylinder models for fuel pumps but not to many 4 cylinder have that issue, usually when a Fuel pump goes part of the problem is either a restricted fuel filter or too many occasions of running it low on fuel.

    $3800.00 is WAY to high for head gasket repairs.

    Even if they replaced every coolant hoses, all of the timing components and a Clutch its still too high. I dont want to tell you to shop around if you have a good relationship with this shop but you do need to ask some questions in terms of what exactly is being done for $3800.00

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  722. Hello SeattleFerg,

    So I struggle with how to answer these types of questions. I truly believe Subaru builds a very safe, reliable vehicle that has he best All Wheel Drive System available. Subaru in my opinion offers the best Value in its class. yes if you buy one it may need head gaskets, or if its a Turbo model need a Turbo if not maintained properly and if not caught in time an engine. So when buying a used car you don’t really know for sure with out a doubt how well it was maintained so there is risk involved.

    The 2003 and 2004 have less issues than earlier models, but yes we make head gasket repairs to this era vehicle mostly oil leaks, that turn into coolant leaks at higher mileages.

    Because I work in the industry, I am a little de-sensitized to the head gasket thing, and because I have friends that own Audi and Volvo Repair shops, and hear about the size of the repair bills I feel good about the above statement in terms of value and ownership costs. Those are the only 2 cars in the same class as the Subaru in my opinion, out of the 3 there is no question in my mind which one offers the best Value.

    Any car you buy will need service and repairs, buy what you like!!

    You are doing research so you are on the right track, make sure you have a pre-purchase inspection done, and try to buy from a Private party with service records if you can.

    I hope that helps

    Justin

  723. Hi Justin,

    thanks for the great site. I have a 2000 Outback with 93000 on the clock and am looking at the head gasket repair. Records indicate that the additive was applied when it first became available.

    Quoted 1600 to 1800 at a local independent shop here in Reno depending on what else is uncovered during the tear down. Does that sound reasonable in today’s world?

    I recently replaced the stock radiator with an all metal bolt in because the stock radiator had started to leak where the plastic side tanks are crimped to the metal core. Are there any issues I should be concerned about with respect to the all metal radiator? Electrolysis etc.?

    With the new head gaskets installed can I use generic coolants, if so which ones would you recommend or do I need to add the additive and use Subaru specific coolant?

    Thanks for your time and passion for the cars. I agree with your philosophy on keeping the old iron rolling, most of my vehicles don’t even have an on board computer. I hope to get many more miles out of the Outback.

  724. Well, the head gasket on my ’97 Outback finally went terminal at around 180k. I have been a big fan of the car until this point, and am really torn as to whether or not to repair or replace (with anything but a Subaru).

    I’m not even sure what t sell it for as-is, since the repair is about the same worth of the car in working condition. Anyone have a thought on this? $500? $1000?

  725. I have a 2000 Legacy GT that I bought brand new and I am about to reach 90K miles. I love my car and it runs pretty good and I have been religious about taking my car in for all routine check ups to a non-Subaru dealer but they say they are specialist in foreign cars. My problem is that in the last two years I have replace the altenator twice and fuel pump once for about $3K and they keep telling me about this head gasket leak they are watching. This past oil change he actually quoted me $3,800 to repair the head gasket. I was toying about getting rid of my car but it made me sad because I wanted to be one of those Subaru owner with over 200K miles! I have hope after reading your website and comments. My questions to you are: Do you think I should go to a Subaru dealer for the head gasket? Is $3,800 too high? Do you think the alternator issues stemmed from the head gasket?

    Thanks a head of time & Love all the info on your site!!

  726. Justin- Please ignore my request for more info on the separator plate- Found the info elsewhere on your site and the video was great! Question re break-in after headgasket repair and Stant thermostats still timely though- Thanks! Peter L

  727. Also- Any “Break-In” suggestions for us when the repairs are done? I know our first inclination will be “Wahoo! The Subie’s back! Road Trip!” AKA 3 days mix of freeways and mountain roads with a full load 🙂 If moderation is advised we may be able to restrain ourselves for whatever the reccommended period is. Thanks! Peter L

  728. Thanks to your prev advice and answers to others we’ve gone ahead “eyes open” and better informed as we repair our 97 outback ltd headgaskets. Ditched the Dealer that wanted to do it engine-in-car,etc. We’re in mid repair and just learned that the shop was planning to use aftermarket “Stant” Thermostat- Any problems with these? Also, can you expand on your advice to replace the “Separator Plate” with an “updated separator plate repair”? Thanks so much for the site and your time-It truly makes a diference in the world! Peter L, Oakhurst CA

  729. Hi Justin;

    I bought a 2001 Subaru Legacy L last year with 98K miles, it now has 106K. Shortly after I bought it the CEL came on P420 code. Had o2 sensers checked, in normal range. Took it to have cat converter checked, mechanic said do not replace it, it is fine, it does not rattle, just add seaform product to engine and blow the gunk out. I did not have it done bacause He had trouble putting the air filter back on, yikes :(.
    Now I have a bigger problem, it overheated and the verdict is head gasket, because there is exhaust in the radiator. I have gotten a couple of estimates, and have it narrowed to a mechanic who specializes in Subarus, or the dealer, the cost is simular. Should I request the “six Star” head gasket which does not require special coolant or the subaru parts. Is this going to be a money pit? Will I have to do this again? What else can I expect? I switched from Toyota to Subaru and so far not impressed.
    Thanks,
    Debbie

  730. Hi
    I moved to Tucson and desperately needed a vehicle. Found a 97 Legacy/Outback wagon with high miles, 238k but appeared super clean. And since I had an Impreza previously for 11 years I know that if taken care of it will last another 75k. So last night when driving I heard a knocking, turned off the radio, it stopped but then later when driving heard it again and it stopped. Possible causes? Right now I’m on the net trying to find out about a good Subaru mechanic to take it to to hvae it looked over. I really hope the repairs are affordable because I would like to keep this car a long time and would like to drive it back to Seattle/Shoreline once a year.
    Thanks
    Randi

  731. I’ve owned 4 subarus in my life, and I’ve loved them all. One of them was a 97 Legacy GT that started overheating on us. I removed the engine and rebuilt the top end of the engine. Ran great for several years afterwords. My wife and I have been without a Subaru for several years now, and it’s been a dull and dreary driving existence without one.

    We are in the market for a Forester and were wondering which years to avoid. I was thinking of 2003 and newer, maybe 2004 and newer, but I didn’t know what to expect with the headgasket issue. Also, should we get a DOHC with a turbo, or stay away from those? I just don’t want to be having that headache after only 50,000 miles.

  732. HI Ron,

    I hear this all to often, you can always call SOA, but I am afraid at your age and mileage it will fall on deaf ears.

    I have had 2 or 3 very persistent customers get a little help (25%).

    As far as cost, I just cant be that accurate, I would say $1500.00 for Head gaskets, another 500.00 for everything else that should be done. timing belt, tensioner, water pump, idlers.

    IF you need head work $250.00 to $1000.00

    If the engine is damaged $2398.00 for A Subaru Shortblock.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

    P.S. Yes its worth it, when the shades go up on how much it costs to own whats for sale at the new Dealer lots right now look out!

  733. Tony,

    The 2005 H6 is a great way to go.

    The H6 and 5speed auto is a great combo, I cant really speak to the price and I highly suggest a prepurchase inspection.

    Justin

  734. Hello Bob,

    There are some software re flashes that should help correct the issue if it is Monitoring system related, but if there is an actually problem with the ability of the Catalyst to function it wont help. You should perform a catalyst function test and go from there.

    Justin

  735. Justin,

    In agreement with so many others, your site is amazing! Your encyclopedic knowledge of Subaru’s is brilliant! I could go on, but don’t want to waste your time. I wish I had found this site a few years ago as it would have possibly saved me what I fear might end up being a big headache.

    I bought a 2001 Legacy GT Limited in 2004 that was a factory demo car, so had been babied and had only 27,000 on it. I have taken good care of the car and have kept up on all maintenance. I’ve used Mobile 1 synthetic in it as long as I’ve had it. I love this car, and I drive quite a bit, commuting, traveling and just when I’m bored.

    Anyway, I had never heard anything about this HG issue until recently when I became aware that I have an issue. A couple years ago, I’d venture I was around 90,000 mi or so, I noticed just a small oil leak coming from the engine, and even traced it to the seal on the left side of the engine. About the same time, I started catching the faint smell of burning oil. Not thinking it a big issue I didn’t stress, but the next time I brought it in for some service, I mentioned it and said, is there anything that can or should be done. They said no, not a big deal or not worth the cost to fix. Something like that. Being it wasn’t that bad to deal with, I just went with it, but remember asking about it a few other times. Now in the last year or so, this has seemed to get worse, and a new symptoms started appearing. The overheating issue, and also on cool 50F, overcast, drizzly/misty days, the car sputter starts and really objects, and at low rpm sputters badly, once it gets above 2500 rpm and warms up then it’s fine. Fast forward to recently, and finally, my mechanic tells me the HG needs to be replaced which triggered me doing a little research, finding out about the commonness of the problem and finally your site. Needless to say, I’m a little pissed. Had I known this info back when the problem was starting to manifest, I would have taken care of it then and odds are would’ve had some warranty coverage too! Now I’m sitting here with 150,000 miles and may have done very avoidable damage to my engine! Also, that starting problem in cool, overcast days just became the worst. For three days last week, my car wouldn’t start because the weather was like that, and it would just turn and sputter, but never fire up.

    As I said before, I love this car. I’m going to get it fixed and drive it 500,000 mi. But, is it still worth it? I would think so, but maybe I’m wrong. I’m going to try to contact Subaru of America and ask them about this. My family has owned 5 of these cars over the years and loved every one of them. We are loyal to the brand, and it would be nice to see them be a little loyal to me. Especially, since I asked about it when it first appeared inside the warranty period.

    Sorry this is so long, but I guess I needed to vent, and wanted to be as detailed as possible. So, what say you? Is it still repairable? Thanks so much! Cheers!

  736. Hi all
    Question about a problen subaru,,I am an auto tech with 30 yrs exp previously certified subaru. car in question is a 2005 legacy anniversary edition 2.5 sohc that keeps setting a p0420 on B1 so I installed a new subaru cat and 2 o2 sensors.approx 6-8 months went by lady returned with same code contacted the the dealer I purchesed cat and sensors from they said they would not warranty there part for 1 year if they did not install it …WOWW.
    Ok next step installed aftermarket cat and 2 02 sensors all new .as soon as the drive cycles completed po420 B1 again.I no longer work for subaru and am not sure what to do,as you the local dealers are not fond of releasing any info on anything. In addition I have bits and pieces of info about this problem and remapping the pcm but the dealer has said there is no such software update. Fellas any help would be appreciated
    Thank You

  737. Justin,

    For the first time, I find myself considering a subaru. The vehicle i am considering is a 2005 Outback 3.0 R w/ 50K miles. I have been scouring the internet for known ‘problems’ with this modle/year when I found this post. I have test driven the vehicle and was impressed. Can you shed a little light on my potential purchase? It is in great condition (by all apearances), and looks to be a good buy at $13K. Thanks for any replies.

    Tony

  738. Lot of good information! Too bad I can’t take my car to you for service, but it’s a long drive from colorado! I am interested in a used ’03 Forester with 42K miles on it and this is by far the best information I’ve seen re: the hg issue. Now I know what to have my shop look for and how to keep it running! Thanks!

  739. OK, I will ask away.

    1. What would you recommend as a good shop manual for a Subaru 2003 – 2005?

    2. I’m considering a 2003 LEGACY Outback at a Hyundai dealer. It has 71,000 miles (114,800 km) and needs about 4,000 in repairs including head gasket according to the dealer. I’m thinking if the price is right, maybe I should buy it and do the repairs myself. I have not seen it yet since it is 5 hrs drive from where I live. The one concern I have is that if the dealer says it needs a head gasket, it must be pretty bad and I may end up having to do a lot more then just the head gasket. What are your thoughts on that?

  740. Hey Carlos,

    I have some of the thickest skin you will ever see it comes with the job of owning an Auto repair shop, I have to pick a point and really try to drive my answer home so all that read it may gain a better understanding and hopefully ask a new question

    I must have re wrote my post 2 or 3 times trying to drive a point home but not come off wrong, its just difficult at times, and yes its because I do have a passion for what I do.

    I really try to allow almost all of the comments, unless someone is bashing a Subaru Dealer, another shop or even just so angry at Subaru because they happened to make the car they own. I dont know if it would surprise anyone to know that I sometimes have to delete 3 to 4 comments a week. Some of them are just plain ugly.

    Sometimes posts come in from someone who disagrees with me and I just have to try and decide if I want to let the comment in and respond hoping to shed some new light on my point of view or just delete it.

    What I really enjoy is creating a place where you and all of your Fellow Subaru Owners can come learn a little. I am happy when my passion shines through a bit.

    Take care and ask away as your Questions come up

    Justin

  741. Hey Justin. I did not mean to come across as if I wanted to tell you how to do your job. I apologize if it did seam that way. That was not my intent – writing is not one of my strongest skills.

    I honestly was a bit confused about this procedure, but you mentioned some things in you response that I had not thought about nor realized. Part of the reason I guess is that I have been away from it for so long. That is why I mentioned that I had not worked on such an engine in the hope that I would not come across as a know it all. I can see your point now, and yes if we do get that car and I need to do the head gasket, I will not hesitate and pull the engine.

    You seam to be very passionate about the quality of your work. This is something that is rather rare in my experience when it comes to the auto industry. The reason I got out of the automotive repair business, was just for that very reason and I still see it every day where car owners get sold on useless repairs and the ones that are actually needed are not usually done very well.

    Thanks for taking the time to answer me. Who knows, I may need to call on your experience in the future.

    How do you find the time to answer all these questions and still be able to run your shop? You don’t have to answer that – I’m just amazed how you do it.

    Carlos.

  742. Carlos,

    I don’t want to come across Rude, but its hard to not feel like you are telling me that even though you have never worked on one you somehow know better.

    Ok, I would never for a hundred different reasons ever do the repairs in the car, but what makes this Country great is the ability to decide for your self how YOU are going to make the repairs.

    Here is 5% of my argument.

    By the time you remove everything you need to, to remove the heads you are a Maximum of 11 bolts or nuts from getting the engine out, a Novice can complete this task in 1/2 an hour.

    Because you don’t even own the car yet and have not made the repairs yet, it is a silly point of view you have, I am not here to debate or theorize the issue but here you go anyways.

    Since you are a former Mechanic, you must surely understand that the more you do the same repair the better you become at it. Some Techs use this as a way to cheat or Short cut, others use this as a way to hone their craft. We don’t choose to take the engine out just for fun or for our health. We do this because it delivers the best possible repair we can make, and our customers deserve this.

    I developed a Repair method, which includes taking the engine out and obtaining a the correct RA (refinishing average) so that the gaskets will seal correctly, next, the speed at which you go about torquing the head bolts has a huge affect on how well you establish first, the initial crush of the Gasket and then the final clamping force. If you think you can torque, loosen, torque, and then perform the Bolt stretch procedure in the car bent over the fender better and quicker than the engine on a stand be my guest. If this is not done quickly the repair will be substandard.

    If you leave the engine in the car and after using a strait edge find you have a .001 low spot, how will you address this? How will you ensure that no debris from the block sanding process goes into the lower oil return passages and into the pan. How do you plan on inspecting the ENTIRE cylinder wall area of all 4 cylinders for cracks, scrapes and carbon build up if you can see the top of the cylinder? Please Dont tell me using a mirror!

    I can go on for a few hours, but I hope this helps explain that fluids dripping is just one of the obstacles.

    I am not a Mechanic, I am a professional Automotive Technician that has tried to hone my craft over the last 25 years. As such I care about the Quality of the repair first and foremost.

    A good Tech will never be afraid to loosen a bolt for fear of not tightening it……

    Here is a similar situation that I can draw from…..

    I had to have my house painted a while back partially because I am way to afraid of heights to do it my self plus would have no time to answer questions like this one. I live in a neighbor hood of 7 houses and all of us had to have it done about the same time because our builder used cheap paint and cheap labor.

    I sought out some referrals from friends and family members, one guy stood out because he pointed out the house needed a full coat of primer before the new paint. None of the other companies suggested it, or were willing to do it when I brought it up. I now get to come home to a house that still looks like it was just painted VS all of my neighbors that went in another direction.

    Now I have painted all of the houses I have owned up until this one (4) so I guess that makes me a painter, but had I done it my self I would never have primed it, I too would have thought it unnecessary.

    Interestingly enough my total bill was less than 2 of my neighbors who actually have smaller houses.

    I have the only house on our street that still looks good, and 3 of my neighbors have indicated they are going to have the guy I used repaint this Spring.

    Time will always prove me right about the proper way to approach the head gasket repair. Thats my point of view and it will never
    change on a Subaru.

    You have a situation where the original engine was assembled in a controlled environment and already has the updated gasket from Subaru installed in a 2003 model and under these conditions it now leaks.

    I don’t understand the thought process behind, Somehow we can do better in the car, in a non controlled environment?

    I sincerely hope this helps, and for all that read this, I don’t intend to ever offend, but at the same time I don’t intend to answer this question any more and really want to try and get this point across.

    Thanks

    Justin

  743. Thank you Justin. A seriously good machinist, a neighbour, but not a Subaru expert like your self, said exactly that. Do not reuse the head gasket even though it only had 200 miles. The head gasket crushes and one could never get it back to the original location, even with the dowels. He also felt that the head bolts could safely be reused. I will let you know if I am successful. No need to reply Thks

  744. My wife wants to get a 2003 Subaru Outback or similar. I have been reading about the head gasket problems and I’m a bit puzzled. You say that without removing the engine, it is impossible to do a good job that will last due to the boxer engine cylinders being in a horizontal position and tight working conditions.

    As a former mechanic, I don’t see why doing an in-place replacement of the head gasket cannot be done to the same quality level as if the engine is removed provided that a few extra steps are done. If you take the time to properly drain the fluids to the point that no seepage takes place and you clean the surfaces and check them for trueness just as you would with the engine removed, why would it not last?

    I understand that when you take it to a shop, the mechanic will never actually take the time that I’m suggesting and do these steps properly since he is working on a flat rate. I would guess that in order to do a good job on an in-place head gasket, it would take one to 2 extra hours of labor.

    I know, I used to work in a dealership and even the so called good mechanics, only do the minimum to get the job done as fast as possible. Therefore, in most cases the mechanic will actually do a better job because he is getting paid for it and by removing the engine he will also drain the fluids better.

    So I don’t see why the engine has to be removed to do a good job? Also, removing the engine requires removing and draining all kinds of systems which complicates the job and introduces other issues like loose bolts, jarred electrical connectors, etc.

    Please keep in mind that I have never worked on a boxer type engine, so maybe I’m missing something here. If so, I would really like to know what that is?

    Thanks, Carlos.

  745. Hi, All of these posts have been very informative. I am looking to purchase a used 2006 Outback 2.5i with 68k miles later this week. Buying it for $15,000. I called a local mechanic and he just about turned me off to Subaru when he started talking about the head gaskets leaking and needing replacement at 60k – 70k miles. The girl I am looking to buy it from seems to have all the service records has taken excellent care of it. Should I be concerned about the durability of the head gaskets or anything else on a 2006 Outback 2.5i with 68K miles? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also, if you know of a great subaru mechanic in the San Diego area, that would be great to have.
    Thanks,
    Dave

  746. Hi Bob,

    I hate the idea of repairing it in the car, dont like your choice of parts, would never suggest reusing crushed gaskets. There is no reason to replace the head bolts.

    I know that Felpro is a house hold brand in this country. But it is so because “Back in the Day” Everyone and their brother had a Ford, Chevy or Dodge that leaked fluids out like no ones business.

    Repairing Valve cover gaskets on a Chevy 350 V8 was almost an american past time, and Fepro is what was used.

    But you now have a Japanese car, and Felpro is just not the best choice for it, just like I would never suggest using Japanese made gaskets such as Nippon Reinz for the Chevy V8.

    If you want to fix it once and right for the first generation 2.5l buy the updated Subaru gaskets, pull out the engine, put it on a Stand and make a repair that will last.

    Justin

  747. Hi Stephen,

    Cylinder # 3 is on the right or Passenger side.

    there are plenty of other things that will cause a misfire besides a head gasket, and if the head gasket is blown to the point thats its causing a misfire its probably to late to plan on just a gasket replacement.

    The left side was probably done in the car and to address a external coolant leak only.

    I hope that helps

    Justin

  748. Hello Andy,

    It sounds like you have an air pocket in the cooling system, or an aftermarket thermostat installed. But that doesn’t really address all of the issues, what was the source of the original coolant loss?

    If you installed an aftermarket thermostat, start with buying a Subaru one.

    It really makes it hard to answer your questions some times, I have no way of knowing what you have done, and how you went about the repairs, you may have used aftermarket parts which dont work on Subarus, you may have failed to get the air out of the cooling system.

    You may have caused a head gasket issue by now even if it didnt start out as one.

    I know you are looking for THE answer but I just dont have it to give in this case.

    Justin

  749. I have a 96 2.5l with 390km. I changed HG in car. The heads were completely redone. I used Felpro gasket set. New TTY bolts. I still had tiny bubbles in the coolant with only 200 miles, so now engine is out, so I can properly clean block. I read you post on the differences between in car vs out, right on! Can I reuse the gaskets and bolts?

  750. So, at 121,000 miles I too had the delight of finding that my 2002 Outback Legacy was having issues with the head gaskets. June of 2009, Subaru agreed to replace the head gasket on the left side only. It seemed odd since the engine is all apart and they are aware of the failure that they took this route but now, a little over a year later I have a blown head gasket.

    Cylinder 3 is misfiring and they want to do a full head gasket job saying that since its an internal leak they are not sure which one is failing.

    Is cylinder 3 on the left or right side of the engine?

    And, I am calling Subaru Corporate on Monday morning, any thoughts on what I should say and can expect 20,000 miles later. Seems that if its the left failing it should be covered, if they both need to be replaced they should cover at least the left one being that it is only a year old.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated, especially knowing which cylinder is number 3.

    Thanks to all the gurus out there with any info to offer!

    Cheers
    Stephen

  751. Oh yeah forgot one thing. The resevoir tank level increases after the overheating but does not go down when the car cools down. Thanks again.

  752. I have a 2000 Outback with 150,000 miles on it. About 6 months ago, the car overheated and after adding some coolant, all was good for about 3 months. Added more coolant and good for 2 months. About 2 weeks ago it overheated again, added coolant, a day later, it overheated again. I have replaced the water pump, timing belt, thermostat, and the radiator over the last 2 weeks. When I drive it now, it overheats after about 15 minutes(Approx. 5-7 miles) and the heater starts blowing cold air. When I get out to check under the hood, the upper radiator hose is warm/hot and the lower hose is cool. I’ve tried to bleed air out of the system several times and it keeps happening the same way. Am I avoiding the inevitable head gasket repair or is there something I am missing? It seems like coolant is not circulating but could air be getting into the system through a leaky head gasket? There is no coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant from what I can see. No white smoke out of the tail pipe. What should I do next? Thanks for any help.

  753. Triggz,

    The light comes on when there is a code set by the Computer in relation to a sensor reading or condition the computer interprets is out of the programmed range.

    With out knowing at a minimum what code is set in correlation with the light being set there is no way to advise you.

    If the code pertains to a loose gas cap then no replacing the Catalyst would be unwise. You can buy your own scan tool, go to a parts store for a scan, and at least know what code is set, but still not what is wrong or pay someone to scan for the code, and then diagnose why.

    Justin

  754. Hello Sean,

    Based on your Post I know where the car has been if you are in Seattle.

    There is really now way to know which side, and a good shop would never do just one side.

    It is not uncommon to start with looking for hydrocarbons in the cooling system as part of a prepurchase inspection, and stopping there if the gaskets are found to be failing. This kind of depends on the customer as well.

    We charge much less than you have been quoted.

    You wont typically have white smoke coming out of the exhaust until they are in the late stages of failure.

    As far as diagnoses to confirm,the test is done using a gas analyzer over the radiator fill neck with the engine up to running temperature.

    Repairs differs from shop to shop and from Dealer to Dealer, its not enough to say the head gaskets were done 3 years ago, it just doesn’t matter when they were done, what matters is who did them, and what was used.

    I painted my new house after it was 2 years old, and 5 years later it looks great! But I paid a real pro to take care of it, instead of a builder trying to keep the price down.

    I usually don’t suggest buying a car that has just had the repairs done unless YOU establish a relationship with the Shop that did the repairs and can verify the warranty will be upheld. Next its a good idea to have a prepurchase done, and have that shop look over the receipts with you to see if there are any red flags on how the repairs were done. Have you contacted the shop that did the repairs 3 years ago?

    I really cant tell you ho long it is going to last, no one can. It is unwise however to wait until it overheats as a basis to decide when to make the repairs.

    Justin

  755. I have a 02 subaru forester with 138,500 mile and had recently did my head gasket service last May of this year. Unfortunately, my check engine light turned on, it came to my mind that it could be the catalytic converter, was this possible? I felt slightly loss of power during acceleration, I really don’t want to go to the mechanic for additional charges of diagnosis.

  756. Hello Justin,

    This site is amazing and just what I was looking for. Thank you so much.

    I sadly have to sell my 1998 forester with 145,000. The car runs great and has had no problems since I purchased it about 3 years ago with 115,000, when the seller told me he had just had the head gaskets done (I was one of those unaware at the time of Subaru HG issues… still was until this week).

    I recently took my car to an independent Subaru shop to get looked at with a potential buyer. They said the car has hydrocarbons in the cooling system (125ppm) and this indicates the head gaskets are failing. They quoted $2400 just for the beginning of the work (depending if there was more damage). Obviously this was enough to turn the buyer away.

    2 years ago I had some work done on the car at a Subaru specialist and their diagnostic report stated: “Found Hydrocarbons in the Cooling System. Does Not Appear to be Affecting Engine Performance at This Time.” Neither the mechanics or the report said anything else about needing to get it looked at.

    The questions I have are: How much of a problem is this? The car has never overheated, the overflow tank doesn’t smell like gas or bubble when the car is running, and there is no white smoke coming out of the exhaust. If there are hydrocarbons in the coolant, is it clearly a head gasket issue? What type of diagnosis can I do to narrow down the problem? The potential buyer paid for the inspection, and all they did was find the hydrocarbons and stop the inspection at that. Is there an easy diagnostic test to find which gasket is leaking? Also, how long can I expect the car to run problem free before some HG issues start presenting themselves? Both shops I mentioned confirmed the head gaskets were not the originals, and I just wonder what kind of work was done to show up like this after such a short time.

    I love this car, don’t really want to part with it, but I have to. And I want to be honest in what I am selling to somebody. Also, just as a reference what do you guys charge to replace the head gaskets on a 1998 forester?

    Thanks in advance,
    Sean

  757. Hi Joe,

    Most likely you have an air pocket in the cooling system. Since the Thermostat requires hot coolant, and not hot air in order function as the air pocket gets to the thermostat it cant open…

    The Thermostat is at the bottom of the engine. That would explain the cold lower radiator hose…

    If not addressed, it can cause the head gaskets to blow.

    If you use an aftermarket Thermostat you may compound the issue.

    I would make sure you have a Subaru Thermostat, and get all of the air out of the cooling system, and take it form there.

    Justin

  758. Hi Matt,

    You have a good shot at 60k and 5 years of age at obtaining some participation from Subaru.

    Having Said that, I really dont like the idea of it repaired at the Dealer under warranty with the exact same gasket you already have., but done under warranty that is all you will get.

    Justin

  759. Aaron,

    While I do feel bad that you have had to go through the experience, and I really don’t know why the engine is being replaced I might add. It highlights the fact that a general repair shop, or lube center is the last place you should take your Subaru. Changing coolant is just not a simple thing to do, and its a $100.00 service at a Dealer or $80.00 at a Good Subaru Shop.

    Hind sight is always 20/20 and its not that I am suggesting you go to a Dealership, I do suggest however that you become informed about the different levels of service each provider may offer.

    I really have no idea how to burp the air out of the cooling system on a Ford, as such we don’t work on them.

    I say it all the time, Find a good independent Subaru Shop in your part of town take your car to them for ALL your service needs, and get much more value out of your Service dollars.

    Justin

  760. Justin,

    We have just encountered what may be a HG problem, but I’m not sure because it is on a 1990 Legacy L with the EJ22 motor.

    We had the motor out last weekend to replace the clutch. No big deal. But now, after long runs @ highway speeds, when The car slows down, we get a temp spike, push water out of the overflow resevoir, and have to shut the car down. The lower radiator hose is Cool and the upper one is Hot.

    Any chance we just reversed a hose or something? I replaced the Thermostat today but that has brought no relief to the problem. Any ideas will be appreciated.

    Thanks

    Joe

  761. Hi Justin,
    while under way on a road trip, i noticed a strong coolant smell from my 2005 subaru impreza 2.5RS coolant was pouring out of the overflow bottle, and the engine was at normal tempurature. i soon discovered that there must be an internal HG leak, as whenever the thermostat first opens, there are lots of bubbles coming into the overflow reservoir and the coolant looks oily, and there is a brown residue all over the reservoir. my impreza only has 60k on it, what are the chances that subaru will be willing to pay the cost of a clear defect? i have all maintenance records, and treat the car very well. i love the car, but this is one repair that i can NOT afford. also, what do you recommend as a replacement HG?

    thanks,
    Matt

  762. Justin,
    Got a call from our Subaru dealer informing us that the radiator in our 2001 Outback VDC 3.0 had internal damage and that after replacing ($800) the car was still overheating and was definately at least HG. Recommended engine replacement. Subaru said that they have seen only one other 3.0 like this. Said that short daily mileage wouldnt have been enough to show problems in improper purging, as the car first overheated on a 100+ day in stop/go traffic a month after being serviced. Also said once is all it takes w/ aluminum components. Found a 54k engine. $5k incl installation at Subaru. All over a $50 coolant change.

  763. HI Aaron,

    You can buy a Factory service manual, the Haynes manual isn’t any thing a Professional would use.

    As far as filling it up through a hose VS the radiator neck, thats kind of in material, what is important is knowing how to purge any and all air trapped in the cooling system back out.

    It takes moments to fill but, can take a while to get the air out of the cooling system. I think that is what they are referring to.

    Justin

  764. JUSTIN (not Jason, not sure where I got that from),
    Thanks for the information. Not only is the cooling system challenging, but evidently getting the same diagnosis twice is as well. Our dealer has the vehicle, and told us that the radiator is not sealing properly. Not sure how that happened, cap? Said it takes about 45mins to fill “on a good day”. Local service provider said they refilled/replaced the coolant through a hose with the engine running. Could that lead to issues? Interesting about the compression test not generally yielding HG problems. Anyway, thanks for info. Do you know of how to get service info on the 3.0? Internet searches have yielded a service bulletin, but thats it and Haynes specifically excludes the 3.0 engine.

  765. Hello Aaron,

    While not everyone shopping for a Subaru will be informed about the potential for a head gasket issue, I would say that 75 to 80 percent will.

    As such a smart buyer will pay for an inspection and if they take it to a good shop that knows Subaru , the early signs of a head gasket failure will be revealed, and potentially kill the sale.

    You may find the buyer that just accepts that you say you have never had any problems. Buy the car and second guess them selves in a few months to a year, when presented with an overheating situation.

    Its a quandary. Its really up to what your conscious will allow you to do.

    My hope would be that the car was either repaired or the possible issue disclosed. Yes it will most likely affect the price if everyone knows the score.

    I just cant answer how much or how soon, usually if we do a pre-purchase inspection and advise that it still has the O.E. Head gaskets and there are some of the tell tail signs its showing the gaskets are on there way out, Its my advice to not buy it or to negotiate the price down, buy it and repair it.

    We unfortunately get to all to often see the buyers remorse, as such I am always on the full disclosure side of things. If someone barely qualifies for a loan on a 1997 Outback, and than is presented with a huge repair down the road it can be financially devastating.. On the flip side if someone is looking for a good first car for the teenage driver, can afford to swallow a repair down the road and made aware of the issue, and is more concerned about safety then the potential HG issue. I think thats a good fit and the right kind of buyer for your car.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  766. Hi Justin,
    I agree with many other posters… This is a genius site and great service you do, thanks in advance! anyway, to my question:
    I am selling my 97 legacy outback and when I went to a mechanic with an interested buyer he reported that my car “was in excellent condition but was showing signs of a head gasket leak.” (the valve gaskets had two small drops of oil on them. slight residue on the exhaust manifold.)
    I have 132,000 miles on my car, keep the engine and interior in impeccable condition, do much of the regular maintenance myself, and excluding this new issue it would fall into the “GREAT” used car category. I also live in an area where Subarus are extremely popular.
    I have not experienced any viable symptoms of a HG leak and am not losing oil to any detectable degree. also my coolant looks normal to my untrained eye, but im not about to disagree with an independent subaru specialist.

    My question is this; how much does this issue affect my selling price? (monetary value) And, Is it an immediate worry for the buyer? I know it is a super buy if someone is trying to fix it and hold on to it for many years.

    Thanks so much,
    Aaron

  767. Hi Aaron,

    So the Name is Justin.

    To your questions, the Subaru H6 is very challenging to get all of the air out of the cooling system.

    It is not generally a task left up to an amateur, or a even the most skilled of professional auto technician that has no real Subaru experience, just like you would never really catch our shop trying to service German vehicles. We may not serve our customers best, by having a general lack of understanding of the systems. Cars are not just cars I am afraid.

    Your Subaru needs a Subaru Tech, or at a minimum a good Japanese Import expert.

    If where you live this doesn’t exist than yes unfortunately you would be better served at a Dealer ship as much as it pains me to to say so.

    I would also like to point out that head gaskets aren’t generally diagnosed with a compression test. If your gaskets are so bad the compression is affected its almost a given there would be some engine damage as well.

    Justin

  768. Hi Jeremy,

    There wont be getting through winter with out a repair it sounds like. You aren’t mentioning any over heating per say so I am not sure how to answer your question about your current engine. The blocks only crack in the most extreme of conditions. But if it has a blown head gasket it would be overheating.

    To the next part of the question, we do all sorts of swaps. Each one is different, you need much, much more than just the engine, the wiring is a major undertaking, especially any time you go from NA to turbocharged.

    If you decide to do a swap, you would be better off going th some of the Subaru Forums and search for those that have already done it, you will typically find that the Subaru Fans, that are real happy with what they were able to do will post pictures and info about what they did.

    Justin

  769. Jason,
    Interesting sidebar. Just got call from local Subaru dealer (2nd opinion). Said HG are fine, compression is fine. Told me radiator needs to be replaced due to improper sealing with the cap leading to improper flow to/from overflow tank. No bubbles when running. This is the opposite of what we had been told by another independant shop. Also said 3.0 needs to be refilled in certain manner to prevent air pockets. Is there some info on proper refilling for future services? Is something only the dealer can perform?

  770. Jason,
    I really appreciate the explanation as to the root of the matter. I have a 2001 Outback VDC with the 3.0 at 170k. It has been overheating recently, and has been diagnosed with two cylinders that dont meet compression, one on either side and Exhaust gases are present in the coolant. Not much info avail on the 3.0. Estimate is $2700 incl a new water pump (while engine is out)/hoses etc. New radiator? While tough to stomach again(2nd Sub to do this), we plan on going with the repair. The problems surfaced about a month after a local service provider changed the coolant. Off-the-shelf coolant?

  771. Hello Justin,
    A few questions that i am yet to get an answer on from locals. I recently purchased a 1997 Legacy 2.5 GT. It has an obvious issue with either its head gaskets or a cracked block. It filled my coolant reservoir to the max and ten minutes later it was pretty well empty. It blatantly needs extensive repairs but im stuck. It has 156k miles on it and am thinking about doing a complete engine overhaul and building it. Lowering the compression ratio and setting it up with a single turbo system. I am contemplating just dropping a WRX or STI motor into if i could find one (ive been told anything 02 and prior are like “legos” and can essentially just bolt up to eachother with some mods to the wiring harness and possible drive train. I’m not intimidated by any project due to the fact that we own a hoist and have never had a project that i cannot tackle. My question to you is would i be better off to do a motor swap? Scrap the subi? Or could i get away with building mine? Ive been told that it is a good platform motor, but needs some work. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and some incite on what i should do to get me thru the winter would be awesome also (with the current coolant issue). Thank you in advance, and also for your extensive knowledge of Subarus’.

  772. Hi!
    I have a 2002 Legacy Outback, I have owned this car since brand new. At 58000 miles I was told there may be a leak with the headgasket and it should be checked. I went to the mechanic that the Subaru dealer uses and they injected a dye but no leak could be found. It now has 178000 miles on it. When I took it in yesterday to get the right ball joint replaced, they showed me a major leak with the headgasket. I took it back to the recommended mechanic for Subarus and they are giving me an estimate for $1700. Both headgaskets need to be repaired/replaced. I can give you the exact figures if you want them, but that just seems like a whole lot of money. Please help me out. Thank you. Maureen

  773. Hi Nicholas,

    The twin turbo is a car that is not available in the U.S. never has been.

    But here it goes.

    Ok, so shaking from the engine usually indicates a cylinder misfire, a cylinder misfire could be from a spark plug, spark plug wire, coil, injector, vacuum leak, an out of adjustment valve, sticky valve, cracked valve, bent valve, lack of compression, excessive cylinder leakage sticky egr (if Equipped), wiring issue, overly rich or lean condition in one or more cylinders. And Coolant entering the cylinders as its not real flammable, but I have no real idea which of the above may have been affecting your shake.

    Bottom line for some reason the explosion in at least one cylinder is not as strong as the rest and as such you get the shake or misfire.

    TO The good as new statement, there are way to many variables that I dont know about to answer that question for you.

    I wouldn’t want you to think that replacing a hand full of gaskets is going to make the car or the engine for that matter new, because what you will have is a car with 150k, with an engine with some new gaskets. A good complete repair including gaskets, timing components, water pump, thermostat, hoses etc. done by a good Subaru Technician should represent good value VS buying another car.

    Having said all that!

    I really have no idea what is being done and by whom to give you any real information there, and thats a conversation better left up to the Technician servicing the Subaru.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  774. Hello
    I have a 1995 subaru legacy GT twin turbo wagon needing a new HG which has done close to 150,000 kms. Prior to the engine steaming and over heating and the side radiator splitting the car would sometimes shake on the open road in the mornings. My questions are what could the shaking have been? and is it true that once this problem is fixed that the car will be almost as new?

  775. Justin
    I’m looking into buying a ’98 Outback limited with 188k miles on it. Is there any way to tell if the head gaskets have been replaced by visual inspection?

  776. Thanks for the reply Justin! I was already clear on the head-gasket failure testing, just not clear that there was no way short of tear-down to determine extent of heat damage such as warpage, cracks, bearings other than the most extreme instances. I suppose since I don’t hear horrid thunks and rattles, experience vibration or misfire, or have fluids mixed in oil or radiator that’s a positive 😉 Thanks again for the site and info- Peter L

  777. Mike,

    My suggestion is to monitor it when its a oil leak, repair it as soon as it leaks coolant or ahead of a long trip with the car.

    This advice applies to using it locally to commute and get you to where you gotta go. If you have need to use it for a road trip I usually suggest getting your local shop to take care of it at least 2 weeks ahead of your trip, even if its just oil. If you are somewhere else when it turns from monitor to need to repair, you may have limited options and obtain no value and have a real stressful trip.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  778. Hi Peter,

    The answer is actually on the site in many places throughout the Q & A.

    But here it is.

    There is no compression, Leakdown or Pressure test that can be done to simulate the gasket failure as a result of Expansion due to heat and cylinder pressure from the “Explosions” in the Cylinder from the combustion process.

    This is what makes it so hard for the average guy, or even the average Tech to understand, that the Gasket will still hold back cylinder pressure and temperature until the head expands away from the block do to heat.

    It takes the Expansion event to complete the failure and thus the symptoms.

    If the gasket is blown to the point where it affects compression its WAY to late to repair.

    The proper “test” is done with an exhaust gas analyzer held over the radiator fill neck, preferably with a coolant fill funnel installed.

    You would warm the car up and look for Hydrocarbons (measured in parts per million) in the cooling system, this is the single easiest exhaust gas to look for, and a good indication that combustion chamber gases are making there way into the cooling system.

    That is how we would go about it here.

    Now since Exhaust is stinky, and because you probably don’t have a gas analyzer you can smell the coolant overflow bottle for an exhaust smell. But sometimes you may not catch all of the failing ones that way.

    There is no way to truly know if the block or heads are damaged until it is taken apart and checked for warp, also is the possibility of the oil rings collapsing from overheating as well. There is really no way of knowing about this unless the lower end is dissembled, which is not part of the the head gasket repair. I would like to point out that this is unusual but possible

    This is why its really just a bad idea to let it overheat, its not going to get any better, and will eventually get to the point where it overheats all the time. When at this stage the costs can go up.

    I hope this helps

    Justin

  779. Hello Eddie,

    $1800.00 seems a little high but I really have no idea what the labor rate is there.

    As far as a shop to send you to I just don’t have one. Sorry.

    It comes up a lot, but shops really dont communicate with one another like some of the other professions.

    We use a MLS gasket on the Second Generation 2.5l, I think if you find a good Independent Subaru Shop they may also use the same gasket.

    A Subaru Dealer or a general repair shop most likely would not use the MLS gasket we like to use here.

    As long as you find the right shop , you will get great value out of the repairs.

    I would worry less about price and try and get some referrals from Fellow Subaru owners in your part of town.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  780. Justin,

    Excellent site with lots of good information. I have an ’04 Forester X with approx. 85,000 miles on it. After taking it my local independent Subaru shop for an oil change, I was told I had a slight oil leak from a head gasket. The tech rated it a 2/5 and said I should be good for a while. After doing some research I’m wondering if I should bite the bullet and have the service done now. What are your thoughts?

  781. Justin- Wish I had found your site sooner! Fantastic content and thoughtful responses! I have not found this question addressed elsewhere in your site (forgive me if I missed it): What diagnostic steps can I take to determine to what extent our HG overheating events have added heat damage to our motor? Facts: 97 Legacy Outback Ltd, currently 172K miles w consistant maintenance over its life. Blew a radiator tank on vacation this summer & drove 3-4 mile very hot. About 1,200 miles later we suddenly overheated under load on a long trip, had very low radiator coolant- refilled & added a leak seal- drove 800 miles, with another overheat and refill. Later, our local Shop pressure tested cooling system hot and cold, checked for gasses with chemicals & found nothing so I’ve put about 300 miles on it documenting Subie behavior- seems to “pump out” the coolant into the overflow tank and never draw it back in. No water seen in oil, no oil in coolant- Now that I’ve found your site, it all makes “internal head gasket leak” sense…But I’m worried that the 4 or 5 hot engine events may have caused damage beyond the HG, and perhaps beyond the point of return for this engine (although it still seems to run fine except for the overheat issues). Am I right in thinking a compression test may shed some light here? Anything else we can check prior to tear down to tell whether it’s worth it or time for a replacement engine? Again, thanks for the great site! Peter L, Central CA

  782. Hello,

    I’ve read the whole site, learned a lot. My ride is a 2002 Subaru Forester. I bought it new, it has 180,000 miles with original head gaskets. I have never replaced the coolant, ever. I check it for freezing prior to winter each year, and have added maybe a quart total over the past 9 years. Oil change every 3,000 miles. The water pump was good when I had the timing belt done at 100,000. I refused to put any coolant system sealer in my car when the dealers were pushing it the first few years I owned the car. I drive 83 miles round trip at 70 miles an hour every day. I suspect that this has something to do with my head gasket luck so far. I remember you mentioning long drives being good for preventing unburned fuel from eating at head gaskets. No problems now, the car has never overheated, the coolant has always been true green, but I know my days are numbered. I am researching local shops for prices, most are in the $1800 range. Any shops you could recommend in Maine? I want to make sure the shop I go with uses the right gaskets. Can you tell me which ones ? I know you sell kits, can you tell me which one I should order from you if the shops I choose don’t use it. My car will get the investment it deserves. It has paid for itself several times over already, and I believe it will continue to. Subaru power in Maine !

  783. Hi Justin,
    thanks for the info.. we have decided to buy the car and have the timing belt replaced… the mechanic (not a Subaru dealer) also advised replacing the water pump at the same time .. is this correct?
    Also do you have an opinion on using Subaru parts v’s none Subaru parts? They said that the timing belts the use aren’t Subaru but they are better as they are produced by a company that ONLY makes timing belts- and that Subaru will use the cheapest they can find.. not the best..
    Thanks again for your help.. we still may be driving south to see you!

    Louise

  784. Hi Justin,
    IF we buy the car, can we bring it to your shop to get it overhalled? what is the worse case senario on the cost of engine repairs, including rear brakes and drums (they have 50% wear and some corrosion) and the timing belt and whatever is making the blue smoke?
    Im just trying to see if it is worth the risk!!
    thanks L

  785. Hello Louise,

    This comes up a lot, but I just don’t know anyone to send you to.

    Doing the head gasket with out the timing belt was silly unless they had records of it being done recently.

    Its really not uncommon to get a little bit of Blue smoke at start up, but having not seen it, its just not possible to know just how bad it is, or know if it is consuming oil and that would be the real concern.

    This is kind of the issue with buying a used car from a Dealer just trying to make profit VS buying it from the owner who has outgrown it.

    All you can do is have the best possible inspection you can and make a decision based on that inspection. But if there is no history of the timing belt, I would have that done right away if you buy the car.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  786. Hi Justin,
    I’m up in Vanc BC, and noone here seems to know half as much as you do.
    1.can you recommend a mechanic up here who ISNT a dealership?
    2.I am looking to buy a 2002 Forester with 12oK on it. The dealer says they have replaced the HeadGaskets but did NOT do the timing belt or anything else at the same time, which was questioned by a Midas mechanic. Have they just patched it up to get it off the lot?
    3.BCAA report on it (like AAA) advised it was burning oil at cold start.. is this an indication of further problems?
    they are asking 10K for the car.. which up here seems to be pretty standard for this vintatge (everything is cheaper in the US!)

    Let me know your thoughts!

    thanks
    Louise

  787. Hi Dave,

    Sounds a little frustrating.

    Interestingly enough as I have read through your post, I just don’t see enough instances where the vehicle was in actuality tested in the same fashion as when it is acting up.

    Because the H6 uses a MLS type gasket that has the ability to recover as soon as the expansion event has subsided, doing a pressure or compression test is Kind of a waste of time.

    You just cant look for a head gasket leak the same way you look for a water pump leak or blown hose.

    When the bubbling occurred it would have been a good idea to have an exhaust gas analyzer over the coolant overflow bottle to look for signs of exhaust gas in the cooling system. Even better to install a coolant fill funnel at the radiator neck
    and put the probe over the coolant fill funnel while it is hot.

    The chemical thing is only going to find the “truly Blown” Head gaskets. I have proved this over and over. The “Block Check Chemicals” miss what the actual sensitive piece of equipment picks up.

    It is very hard to spot failure on the H6 gaskets by looking at them. I would really doubt the head is cracked.

    Justin

  788. Subaru H6, continuing overheating problem. Has been going on for 6 months now, still not fixed.

    2003 Outback LL Bean H6

    180,000 Miles

    Here’s what happened.

    6 Months ago: Car was overheating when starting from a stop (after car was warmed up)

    Temp gauge would rise slightly when starting off from a stop and then drop back to normal. It would also do the same when going up long hills on the highway, rise slightly at the bottom of the hill and then immediately drop back to normal temp for the remained of the hill.

    I had a new Subaru thermostat installed, the cooling system of course drained, topped up and burped (With Subaru coolant and conditioner) and car worked great for the next two months.

    Then I took the car for a 15 hour road trip. I was driving about 75 – 80 Miles/hour on the highway. It was 90 % highway driving, when I was about 1 hr away from my destination I had to go from the highway down into the city, and when I started sitting in traffic temp gauge started to rise, and wouldn’t go back down until I started moving again. It was 100 Degrees outside and probably the hottest day of the summer. I managed to keep the car moving until I got to my destination so the temp stayed down. When I arrived I noticed some coolant had spilled out the overflow tank. So I assume it was bubbling, but did not see. The Next day (It was also a much cooler day) I then transferred all the coolant from the overflow tank back into the radiator. The car worked fine for the 15 hour drive home, although it was much cooler outside and I took it easy on the way home.

    When I got home I took the car to my Subaru guy (Master Certified Subaru Tech who works at a dealership here). I had him do a complete check over.

    He did a pressure test on the coolant system and found three leaks. One small leak in bottom of radiator, one small leak in a metal fitted coolant house that goes around the side of the engine, and one around the coolant temp sensor.

    He replaced the radiator, hose and coolant temp sensor. He also put new clamps on all hoses

    After replacing the above, he did a pressure test on the cooling system and it was no longer dropping pressure overnight.

    He also did a compression test and leak down test and found no other issues.

    He took the car for a good drive (although not on the highway) and it acted fine.

    I picked the car up and made the drive home and was also driving about 75-80 MPH on the highway for about a 1 hour drive home. When I pulled off the highway and down into traffic heat gauge started to rise again, also AT Temp light was flashing for a bit. Gauge was going up and down. Coolant was bubbling a bit out of the overflow tank. I immediately shut the car off and had it towed on a flatbed back to my Subaru Tech.

    When my tech got the car back he did another compression and leak down test, and couldn’t find anything. After doing a vacuum test he discovered a leak in what he called an internal coolant hose, he said there were 3 of those hoses and so he replaced all 3.

    After he completed the work the vacuum test passed as well an additional compression and leak down test again passed.

    This time my tech took the car for a long hard drive on the highway after completing the work. When he got back to his shop the car was not overheating but there was bubbling in the bottom of the coolant overflow tank, and some misfires on the cylinders on the drivers (LH) side.

    He immediately did a chemical test on the coolant after the drive and it turned from Blue to Yellow, (I guess it normally changes to green with HG failure?)

    He also checked the fuel pump housing (I think this is what he called it) for cracks and it was fine.

    At this point the head gasket seemed to be the only thing left. So I purchased head gasket kit, a ton of other gaskets and also a new water pump, as I figured might as well replaced the pump when he’s in there.

    He just got everything apart, and the old head gaskets look fine, he has sent the LH head to a machine shop to check for cracking.

    Assuming it’s not cracked, is there anything else I can have him look for?

  789. Hi Rob,

    So I just don’t subscribe to any chemical agent ever replacing gasket material “Permanently”.

    Why would you replace the engine because of a simple gasket failure? Its just a gasket, any used engine will have the same failed or going to fail gasket in it.

    You will be better of just making repairs to what you have, that is the best way to go about it.

    Justin

  790. I have a ‘03 Forester, which I bought new. Now with 160k miles, it is leaking both oil and coolant in very small amounts from the rear of the left head gasket. The motor runs smooth but I have not actually run a pressure check. When I contacted a good friend who owns a used parts lot, he told me to not bother looking for a “good” used Suby motor. He suggusted buying K&N Nanotechnology additive and follow the directions “exactly” meaning remove the thermostat and all the antifreeze and flush the system before adding the product. Have you heard of success stories using this product? Thanks, Rob

  791. I have a ’03 Forester, which I bought new, with 160k and a left side head gasket issue. It is leaking both oil and coolant in very small amounts. When I contacted a good friend who owns a used parts lot, he told me to not bother looking for a “good” used Suby motor. He suggusted buying K&N Nanotechnology additive and follow the directions “exactly” meaning remove all the antifreeze and flush the system before adding the product. Have you heard of success stories using this product? Thanks, Rob

  792. Sharon,

    First of all there are many more benefits to replacing the timing belt other than relieving the fear or breakage.

    A worn timing belt can affect fuel economy and performance as well, even if you perceive it as running just fine.

    The 2.2l started to be an interference engine when Subaru switched to mechanical lash adjusters rather than hydraulic lash adjusters.

    There are many who are completely unaware of this including many aftermarket publications.

    I prefer to identify which engine you have before telling you for sure which yours is, most likely if it was made prior to 1997 it is a Freewheeling engine, but it does not mean that yours is, nor does it mean that in the event of a timing belt breaking you will be ok.

    Its good maintenance regardless and by the way the replacement interval on a 1995 2.2l is Every 60k not 105, that is for the 2.5l and 2.2l after 1998 unless its California emissions equipped. Since you also bought it used with no service records, you don’t know that it still has the original engine in it.

    I know you are looking for a quick simple yes or no, but it would be wrong to answer you that way. If your car was here I would be advising you at a minimum to let us have a look at the belt, in 1995 the O.E. Belt would have said “Power Grip” and the replacement “Unitia” IF it was a Subaru belt, but I think I remember that in 1996 or 1997 both O.E. and the replacement would say “Unitia”

    Justin

  793. HI Rich,

    I am not sure why you would think that putting $1600.00 into a car is to much, compared to $30k on a new car. OR $15k on a 5 year old car with the potential for repairs needed as well.

    168,000 is half way to where your Subaru is going, if you don’t fix it, someone else will and put 300k on the car.

    The value of the car, in no way should influence your decision to repair it, its not an investment, its a device that cant be replaced for LESS than what it would cost to replace it. I like my money, and prefer not to give it to banks in the way of interest so that is where I come from in making suggestions to you.

    The only thing that matters is your comfort level with the car, and your comfort level with either taking a pile of money out of savings, or going into 5 years of debt, to own a newer version of what you already have but with a nicer stereo.

    Justin

  794. I have a 1995 Subaru Legacy Wagon (not an Outback) with 105,000 miles. My mechanic is telling me I need to have the timing belt changed (bought used and have no idea if it was ever changed before) because it has an interference engine. I know the dire results of a broken timing belt on such an engine-he made me very aware of the consequences.

    However, my subie has a 2.2 L and all information on the internet points to this being a non-interference engine.

    I was wondering if you can clear this up for me. Replacement of the belt was quoted as $600 with labor.

    Thank you!

  795. My 2000 subaru Forester, needs a Cylinder Head Gasket Replaced. My Subaru has 168,000 miles on it right now, it was over heating, and the coolant was leaking, and my check Engine Light came on too. but i am not sure if it is really worth spending all that money on such a high mileaged car. I took it to a car shop and they told me that i should get it replaced, for about $1568.80.

    Rich

  796. Hi Jim,

    So the dipstick tube has 2 o-rings where it slides into the oil pan, and the dip stick has a single o-ring where it slides into the dipstick tube. Both should be stocked at The Dealer.

    I really can’t comment on what is leaking with out seeing it, none of what you describe is typical, it must have had some sort of repair that went wrong.

    Justin

  797. Hi Nicole,

    Wow, I am glad to hear you are ok? I think it’s a great testimonial that you want another Subaru. I have found it to usually be the case after an accident in one, there is typically no question about what car to buy to replace the wrecked Subaru.

    To answer your question the 6 cylinders have less of a head gasket issue than the 4 cylinders do, that is correct.

    But like every other car out there, it will need some maintenance and repairs.

    We have done some timing chain repairs, and a few sets of head gaskets through the years.

    The H6 utilizes a Multi layer Shim type gasket that doesn’t tend to fail as early or as often as the single layer composite type gasket used by the Factory in the 2000 to 2009 4 cylinder Outbacks.

    Regardless it would be wise to have any used car inspected prior to purchase by someone who knows the make well.

    I hope that helps

    Justin

  798. I have a 2006 subaru Baja that has a smell of oil or gas after it is turned off. I brought it to dealer who says there is fluid leaking from filler tube.Found dip stick doesnt have a gasket. Ordered gasket then will recheck, other leaks possible. I havent noyiced any leaks on my garage floor but after long drive on freeway when I stopped car it was smoking badley. Any ideas?

  799. Hey Justin!

    First, let me say, this is the best forum ever!!!

    Okay, so here’s the deal…

    I owned a 2000 Subaru Outback Limited Sedan, which I LOVED; however, the car had serious mechanical problems. I had to replace the head gaskets and then I had to have the transmission rebuilt… and I did take very good care of my Ru, with regular maintenance.

    So, I unfortunately totalled by Ru, after rolling four times into a drainage ditch 🙁 on the way to work. Now, I’m shopping for new (used) cars based off of what my insurance company gave me for my car. I really want another Subaru, and can’t really afford to buy a new Subaru based off of what I received from my insurance company but I am TERRIFIED of having more engine problems.

    I was considering a 2001 Subaru Outback Wagon H6, which I was told did NOT have engine issues like the H4’s. So, I guess my question is, do you know if this is accurate?

    Thanks!

    Nicole 😉

  800. Hi Julie,

    So the Gauge doesn’t actually have to go to the top to indicate an overheat.

    Since its happening under load, it does sound to me like a head gasket issue, but should be looked at locally, the correct head gasket to use for the DOHC found in the 1998 Legacy Limited is the updated gasket right from Subaru.

    $900.00 is much less then you would pay at a good Subaru Shop, but I cant speak to whether or not it represents value.

    Justin

  801. Hi Justin,
    I purchased a 1998 Subaru Legacy 2.5 Limited with 83,000 miles on it. It is now up to 93,000 and I believe my head gaskets are beginning to fail. My car doesn’t overheat but the temperature spikes and then goes down after a few minutes, and it seems that it happens when I am driving on hilly areas. I recently got my coolant changed and it has helped, but only a little bit. I have a friend that will fix my head gaskets, everything in timing, and will reseal everything for $900. Is that a good price, and what type of head gaskets should be replacing the original ones?

  802. Hi Mike,

    They are 2 totally different cars, so it sounds like maybe your needs have changed?

    My advice is to keep what you already own until it no longer suits your needs you will always keep more money in the bank.

    Yes the price is high, should be some sort of a multi service discount option if you do the big repair with the other things at the same time, or at least there would be here.

    I also like the Baha and its unique utility, and there wont be another like it for quite some time, if ever again.

    Justin

  803. Hi Neil,

    Moist likely you had a Turbo fail and take out the Engine with it. That is a common thing to happen to thew 2005 and 2006 XT, and GT.

    The humidity thing is a little weird to understand, are you saying it ran poorly but never set a check engine light?

    The price is high, but 16 payments later youre done, where the other way your only one third into a car loan, you will pay $8500.00 in first year depreciation and interest.

    Its really what you are the most comfortable with, you will have a rough go at trying to get money out of the car you have now unless it is repaired.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  804. Hi Justin,
    Thanks for a very informative website. I am currently rebuilding a 2.5 engine out of an 2002 Impreza Sport, which has suffered the common head gasket problems. Would you recommend always replacing the cylinder head bolts as well as the gaskets?
    Thanks again
    Tim

  805. Thanks Justin, for your great site. I did a search for HG repairs on a Subaru and found your site. Here are the facts.
    1. I live in Alaska where costs of everything are higher.
    2. I am the original owner of a 2005 Baja manual Baja that I tow behind my RV on occasion. It has 65,000 miles on it.
    3. When I took it in to a local repair shop he said it needed the following:
    Flush cooling system $125
    Flush Trans Fluid $200
    Brake Fluids $120
    Rear Differential Fluid change $270
    Rear Breaks now (Incl calipers) $500
    Front Breaks 1 year $500
    1 CV drive shaft soon $350
    and the kicker, HG small leak on right side. Repair within about a year, 2500-3500 depending what they find, including fuel pump and timing belt (I think.)

    By the way, a lot of your original post matches my car. I have some corrosion on the battery posts, the last spark plugs were evidently not good ones, (I don’t even know who changed them), and of course lots of cold weather.

    So, the total is between $4500-5500 in the next year. I am considering an alternative of putting down about 7k and trade this in and have a new Honda Fit. Am I missing something when considering this alternative? Your input would be helpful. Thanks

  806. What a great site!

    I took my 2005 Outback 2.5XT turbo into the dealer hear about a year ago right after we had our 60K service done, because when ever it got humid the motor would misfire and run very rough. The dealer didn’t really offer any solution, and said that we had sludge in our motor, implying we had not been doing regular oil changes because the sticker was over due, I change my own oil and don’t update that sticker. I have noticed that there is always some oil leaking around the oil filter. After the fruitless service I started to change the oil and filter every 1,000 miles, however whenever the humidity would return so would the misfiring motor. The problem also never occurred during the winter.

    Unfortunately at 92,000 miles my mother in law was driving it and it started to smoke, when I got there, it would not turn over and there were two piles of molten plastic on the ground by the mufflers. Had it towed to dealer and they say it is seized and I need a new motor, but have not analyzed the oil or hand cranked it, they also say it had no coolant when it arrived. First thing I did on site was check the oil and coolant, coolant tank looked like it had coolant and the oil was fine, not milky or anything. The car has never overheated before. Dealer says it will be $8,500! For new motor, is it worth putting that kind of cash into a 100K car? That is almost 16 payments on a new one. Should this have been something they should have been able to figure out during my two service trips for the problem and over $1,000 spent for nothing?

    I maintained the motor just fine, I am scared that it will do this again.

    Thanks

  807. Hi justin

    My 2001 forester that i just bought has a sticker under the hood that says something about a coolant recall back in 2001 , i assuming it was the head gasket recall back when they started haveing problems with the head gaskets, the sticker says do not remove,this was a one car owner that kept up on all the service through subaru , was this something they did to all the subaru , to prevent head gaskets problems? i dont much about weather or not they fixed the head gasket before they started but im hopeing this is the case thanks

  808. Can you tell me how often I should have
    the coolant changed. I just purchased
    a 2000 Outback and I really don’t want
    this head gasket problem to develop.
    I think you said to change the oil
    every 3000 miles, which I will be doing.
    Just didn’t know about the coolant.
    Thanks for the info.

    PEggy

  809. Roger,

    You have to stop driving the car!!!

    If you continue to let it overheat it wont be repairable.

    Stop leak wont permanently fix it, and will eventually clog the radiator and the heater core. No the Subaru coolant conditioner wont do you much good at this point either.

    Once the temperature gauge moves off its normal position it is in fact starting to overheat, you can do damage to the heads, block and piston rings.

    A 1999 Forester is a SOHC engine and it wants some help.

    The advice I have is to stop driving the car yesterday until you can either make the repairs yourself or afford to have them done.

    Justin

  810. Hi Kat,

    I cant speak to how the shop making the repairs will go about it, including looking for a cracked block which would be very unusual.

    As far as worth it or not, I am a broken record here but if the car suits your needs make the repairs, you will spend less on repairing what you already own than buying another car. ALL cars cost money, this wont be the last time you have to get out your wallet to take care of your Subaru, but thats just the nature of cars, and its human nature to wonder if its the right decision, the answer is its always the right financial decision to repair what you already own.

    The difference between what you own now and a new car is the stereo and the shiny paint.

    Hope this helps.

    Justin

  811. Hi Matt,

    The leak may change for the point its at now to getting worse with time as well. The minor oil leaks at the head gaskets can take quite a while to get to the point where it has to be done. Just keep a care ful eye on it.

    The 2010 is a semi closed deck, and a MLS gasket but time will tell. It would be wrong to assume that just because the design changed there wont ever be any issues but the signs do point in the right direction.

    Justin

  812. Hi Jane,

    Head gaskets can leak externally and internally, which were you advised you had?

    I am assuming an external leak so you would want to get underneath the car, remove the plastic splash pan , get a flashlight and look for fluid leaks. There is no other way to tell.

    As far as Subaru goes, its worth a try but its well out of any warranty, the 2003 was never part of the WWP-99 campaign. I dont know if its leaking oil or coolant and it does make a difference the gasket is capable of leaking both types of fluid and its my experience the coolant leaks tend to receive more assistance then the oil leaks

    Yes both head gaskets should be done. If you have to foot the bill look for a good independent guy or you may get to do it again.

    Justin

  813. Hi Paul,

    Its too early to say what years wont have an issue, the 2010 Outback finally has a MLS gasket so I can say there was finally a change in 2010. A 2008 uses the same gasket a 2003 does, and we do make repairs to the 2004 models.

    Justin

  814. A couple more questions? Is using stop-leak twice a big problem? Will a thorough flush be sufficient to alleviate any problems? How do I do a thorough flush? Many thanks for yout help.

  815. I have a 99 Forester with an EJ253 engine (acc to owner’s manual). Is this a SOHC? I have symptoms of an external head gasket leak, i.e. losing coolant, but no oily residue in overflow and no apparent oil contamination on dipstick. Have put copper-based stop-leak on twice to minimize coolant loss and continued to drive. Temp gauge has been near the top several times, always pulled over, let it cool and added 50/50. Am contemplating doing the HG’s myself. Do you think: 1)Subaru’s coolant conditioner would eliminate this problem? 2) Have I warped my heads? 3) any other advice? thanks.

  816. sorry, one more,
    how will i/the mechanic know if the block is cracked (as if i know what that means, i just know it is important) and if it is, what should i think about doing? and costs?
    thank you thank you!!!

  817. Hi There,
    just bought a used subaru, and apparently didn’t do all my homework. I drove from CO to WA no problems, after doing a coolant flush. Now, i have to do the head gasket repair, but i’m not sure its cost effective. I bought the car for $5k, with 122K miles, and in good condition (other than, duh, the gaskets) The repairs been quoted at 1700 at a subaru dealership, but another subaru specialist (i’m in tacoma, and can’t drive it up to you all) said its worth putting in $2200 to do a full work up (water pump, all gaskets, bearings, radiator, oil) and that after that, it should run another 105k miles. I am a recent grad, so not a lot of income, and this is pretty much it in the car department for the next 3 years, so its either bite the bullet or try and trade in cheap and walk away. Any advice?

  818. Hi Justin,
    my dads 2006 outback 2.5i just hit 160,000 miles. the engine runs perfectly, does not smoke, does not burn any more oil than it did new, and runs quietly with no piston slap or concerning noises at all. i have done all the regular maintanance on the car, and the engine is in excellent shape, EXCEPT that both head gaskets leak, my dad absolutely refuses to repair something unless it is critically necessary, and i posted last year asking how long it should realistically go, before being replaced. However, i have been shocked to discover that the HG leak stopped itself. after 105k of (minor) leaking, it stopped itself. over the last 10k i have noticed the leak stopping. Is this a good sign, or does this indicate something more serious to come? Also, does the new 2010 outback 2.5 have a semi closed deck? – i understand this could potentially fix the head gasket problem plaguing subaru for years.
    Thanks,
    Matt

  819. Hi Justin,

    I want to thank you for the great service and resource your website is! I had my 2003 Outback (with about 81,000 miles) in the shop last week for a routine oil change, and the mechanic noticed a leak and determined the source was the head gaskets. Thanks to your info here, I knew what additional things to make sure they did while they have the engine out. Also, I asked them to contact Subaru of America about extended coverage, which they did, and SOA is going to pay half the cost of repairs. I wouldn’t have thought to ask for that without the information here.

    Thanks again! I’ve got your site bookmarked for future reference, as I plan to keep the car for many more miles!

    Linda

  820. I purchaed a new 2003 Subaru in August of 2002. I have had it serviced per the owners manual and have all the paperwork. 63,115 miles driven in 8 years. During the last oil change visit they told me it had a head gasket leak. Little did I know that this was a regular Subaru problem. The only evidence I see is some bubbling in the coolent overflow container when the car is running and it looks a little muddy. My question is this a sign of a head gasket problem and is it worth a try to see if Subaru of America will help pay a portion of the repair bill. Also should I get both head gaskets replaced at same time if only one is the problem?. Jane

  821. Hi Justin,

    Wow! Thank you for helping so many people.

    I’m looking at buying my first Subaru Forester or Outback. Do the 2008 still have the head gasket issue? What year model does this head gasket issue seem to have been resolved?

    Thanks,
    Paul

  822. thank you. I found your website to be most informative and I really appreciate your prompt reply.
    I just got back from talking with the dealership where I bought the car and they say they doubt it really needs all that work and that the price quoted to me is extremely high. The sale manager said that he didn’t see how a head gasket would cause an oil leak. He did not have a response when I asked what else would cause it.
    I have agreed to let them do an inspection on the car and see what they find wrong.
    Again, thank you for this website.
    Bette

  823. Hi Bette,

    If you buy a 2000 and newer Subaru Outback there is a pretty good chance it will leak oil and or coolant from the head gasket at some point in its life.

    Most in the Industry know this, so to answer your question yes they may have known about it, but then again, there is a good chance that they , just like every other Dealer will make sure the car is safe, take care of worn brakes and tires, and make sure the fluids are in good shape and the lights work.

    Oil leaks really don’t matter to most used car departments at a new car dealership, we just last week had to be involved in a pre purchase inspection where we brought the customer out to see the underside of the Impreza he was buying. After the inspection he still wanted the car, but wanted the price lowered to off set the Head gasket leak that needs to be addressed, the Salesman at the Dealership tried strong handing not only the customer but my self as well stating “All Subaru’s Leak Oil” My response to that was its “typical” for that era Subaru to develop a leak over time, but when it occurs, it does in fact need to be corrected.

    Hind sight is always 20/20 I wouldn’t worry about the transmission harness o-ring, its probably not a large leak at this time. The piston slap thing is pretty typical and ok.

    The head gasket thing is going to be your big your expense.

    Justin

  824. I purchased a 2003 Subaru Outback Limited from a dealership that I have dealt with in the past. They said they would do a pre-purchase inspection. Since I had had good dealings with them with my last car, I did not seek an independent inspection. Big mistake. I know, I know.
    I returned to the dealership 34 days later complaining of smelling oil burning. They kept the car for the day and told me they found some oil leakage on one side, they cleaned it off and told me to have it rechecked at its next oil change.
    The smell returned almost immediately. But I did not take it in to be rechecked for 5 weeks. Now I am told it needs a new head gasket and timing belt as well as a new transmission wire harness. And I also have the piston slap, but they say that can be put off if I don’t mind the noise. It goes away as soon as the engine warms up.
    My question is, should the dealer have been aware of the head gasket leak earlier? Can it really come on that quickly? I have only put a little over 1,000 miles on it since its purchase. I have not driven it more than 40 miles from my home.

  825. Hi Bridget,

    You have all the signs of a head gasket issue, starting with the mystery misfire and ending with the overheat

    It’s time to take care of it, and as long as it’s done correctly you shouldn’t ever have another issue with the head gaskets as they are updated.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  826. Hi Erin,

    “I like the car but am frustrated with how much it’s cost us in comparison to my 18 year old Honda”

    I would compare any 18 year old Subaru Legacy to the 18 year old Honda, its not the car its the Era. The 1990 to 1994 Subaru Legacy was as bullet proof as they come.

    Having said all of that, the single biggest issue you have is where it is being repaired, head gaskets that last all of 18 months were done by the wrong guy, at the wrong shop. The service done as maintenance like the hoses and tires are things that ALL cars need. If the Head gasket is so bad it needs repaired now, it had to have had some signs of failing one week ago.

    I would start with looking in to the work that is being done. Are they the right shop for the car you have right now?

    Sorry I don’t have any real positive things to try and say to help you out, but when we repair head gaskets it lasts.

    Justin

  827. Hi Paul,

    Really the head gasket thing is what you can expect, other than that its a solid car.

    We have plenty of 2004 and newer that we see that still don’t have a head gasket leak, but we also still make lots of head gasket repairs on the same year as well.

    All cars have there thing, this is the Subaru one.

    Justin

  828. Hi!

    I have a 1999 Legacy GT that overheated on me Wednesday while going up a mountain on a very hot day. I didn’t get any warning lights; I happened to glance down at the temperature gauge, saw that it was 1 peg away from H, and thought I’d better pull off the road and shut the engine off. It didn’t kick the check engine light on or anything; it was not bucking or spitting on me, and she did not lose power or anything like that–the only indication I had something was wrong was the gauge on the dash. However, there was antifreeze on the ground and a little blown across my battery when I popped the hood. When the engine cooled off, the reservoir was empty. Unfortunately, I was many, many miles from home, so I had it towed to a nearby service center. They topped the coolant back off and told me they thought it might be the head gasket going. They also put some kind of sealant powder in the radiator and told me they thought it would make it home. I got about 5 miles down the road and she started heating up on me again, so I stopped again and made arrangments to have it towed home.

    About a month ago, I did have a cylinder misfire (kicked the check engine light on), but the mechanic couldn’t figure out what caused it, and it didn’t happen again. About 2 weeks ago, while coming back up the interstate on a 4 hour car trip and again pulling mountains, I saw that she was running much hotter than normal, again on a very hot day. At that time, I turned the air condition off and slowed down, which seemed to help. I hadn’t noticed it running hot between then and now, but then again, I had the car at a body repair shop last week and had only just gotten it back a week ago from getting a rust spot fixed. I tried those same tricks this time, but they didn’t help, which is why I promptly pulled off the road and shut the car down.

    I have not noticed any leaks from my car, and the Subaru repair shop that I normally use has not mentioned noticing contaminated oil the last time they changed it, about 4 weeks ago. I have thought lately that she seemed to be idling slightly rougher and louder, but I had chalked it up to her age and wear, and a few times, I thought I smelled hot car whenever I stopped after long trips, but couldn’t really pinpoint for sure if it was. Does all this sound like the head gasket problem you mentioned above? Because I do a lot of severe driving in that car down some pretty bad roads (dirt and mud and such), I make sure to follow the maintenance schedule and keep the oil changed regularly, based on milage and not time. There is about 135,000 miles on the car now. Also, since the service station put that sealant in the radiator, should I make sure it gets flushed before I go much further in the car? That stuff has me nervous!

  829. Hi Justin,

    We have a 2001 Outback that we bought from a dealer after it had been reposessed. There was some cosmetic issues but were assured it was mechanically sound. We’ve had it for about 4 years (bought for $8500) and have spent about $3000 in repairs during that time. The headgasget failed on both sides about 18 months ago. It has just failed again (one side only) and is going to cost between $1500 and$2000 to get fixed – the mechanic says they can’t tell me precisely because they can’t pressure test the radiator until it’s fixed and we may have a leak. We just spent about $600 the week before the gasget blew having it tuned up, replacing radiator hoses and buying 2 new tires. Is it worth throwing more money at this car? I like the car but am frustrated with how much it’s cost us in comparison to my 18 year old Honda. The car has just over 113 000 miles on it. I don’t know the maintenance history but it was repo so I am guessing not great.

    Thanks,
    Erin

  830. To follow up from my previous post….
    No thanks, I’m keeping the bomb proof 2.2 5 speed 96 outback. We checked out the other outback… and yes the HGs had been replaced. But the coolant in the res. was milky and bubbly at idle. Here’s to another 100K for our outback!

  831. Now that a used Forrester for example can be had for 10K or so (2004ish), can we expect the head gasket issue to be a thing of the past when considering getting a used Subaru. What other major considerations are there. I like to drive my cars into the ground and I’m almost there with my current car.

  832. Thank you for the wonderful sight. I am a long time Subi owner… we simply love them.

    Here’s a dilemma. We have a 96 OB with 2.2/5 speed. Very reliable, but it’s got 194000 miles and it’s a bit rough on the edges.

    We’re thinking of purchasing a single owner, very well maintained 96 OB with the 2.5. It has 150K and HG were replaced at 130. Realistically this car may be given to my daughter in a couple of years.

    The, 96 2.5 is known to have HG problems, but they’ve been replaced already. Would you recommend going for it since it looks nicer, has lower miles, etc? Both mince with 194K and the other with 150K have been very well maintained. Thoughts? Thank you!

  833. Hi – My 2000 Forrester had developed a head gasket problem – exact symptoms you describe and confirmed by mechanic. The car was maintained according to the schedule in the manual but at 75,000 – oh well. Can you give me a ball park estimate on what it should cost to fix?
    Thanks
    Bob

  834. Hi Justin,

    Josh, again. I am also looking at a 5 speed 1996 Subaru Legacy Outback, one owner and 99k miles. If my understanding is correct, this model used the 2.2l engine. Is it true that the 2.2 is less prone to head gasket failure and has more longevity?

    Thanks.
    Josh

  835. Hi Josh,

    If the person selling the car is just flipping it, there is a lot more risk there than buying from the original owner that has good service records, and just doesn’t want to replace the head gaskets.

    I prefer the later.

    I like the idea of you buying a car that needs the work done, and then having it done by a good shop where YOU are in control of the quality and thoroughness of the repairs. Rather than someone concerned about profit on the sale VS expenses. But I only suggest buying a “mechanics Special” from a private party with decent records, that either can’t afford or doesn’t want to fix it and is willing to take a hit on the price as a result ( it happens)

    Justin

  836. Katrina,

    I have heard that the prices on the Islands are high, so I can’t really comment, if its right, it’s a lot more than our customers pay.

    I would inquire about the repair methods and make you decisions based on that and who you have the better relationship with.

    Justin

  837. Hi Justin,

    My wife and I are thinking of buying a 2001 Subaru Forester. The car in question has 150k miles on , being sold for $4500, and has just had a total rebuild, including head gaskets, timing belt, water pump, etc. The guy selling the car says that he got all of the parts from Subaru and had an independent mechanic do all of the work. Will the head gaskets he got from Subaru be the new, less prone to fail head gaskets? I’m not sure if Subaru even sells the crappy ones still that seemed to have had so many issues. What do you suggest as I pursue this? Would I be better off looking for a different year and model and have the repairs done myself? $4500 seems like a good deal, but I suppose I don’t know how well of a job the mentioned mechanic did. I would like to own a Subaru because I need an AWD where I live, but still feel apprehensive due to all of the forums I find of people having problems. Any and all suggestions welcome. Thanks!
    Josh

  838. My husband’s 2002 Forester has just been diagnosed with a blown head gasket. About 85,000 miles. The car has been carefully maintained (not always by dealer). New timing belt and water pump 6 months ago. The dealer here on Maui gave a repair estimate yesterday of over $3000. An independent garage gave a higher estimate. Is this correct? We are trying to decide what to do by tomorrow. Thank you.

  839. Hello William,

    The repair should involve taking the engine out to do it correctly, it can be done with the engine in the car, but then again open heart surgery can be done with a meat cleaver.

    If the repair is done correctly, not at the Dealer, by a Good Subaru Shop, and you continue to maintain it I see no reason why it wont go another 150k, most do just that.

    Justin

  840. Hello Mark,

    Thanks for the kind words, and yes Wisconsin would be a long drive but we are worth it.

    Its always a good idea to address the timing components such as the timing belt, Tensioner and idlers as well as the water pump and any coolant hoses that are marginal.

    Its really not that you have to do these things but if you plan on keeping the car, it makes sense to do them at the same time as it lowers forward going ownership costs.

    A good shop should do most of the additional items at the cost of the parts only.

    Justin

  841. Hi Justin,

    Thanks in advance for maintaining this awesome site! It is a great resource for owners like me who try to become educated on our Subaru’s.

    I have a 2000 Outback with 140K on the odometer, and hope to put another 140K on it in the next 10 years. I just had the head gasket diagnosis, and will have it fixed this week. I’d come to you, but the commute from Wisconsin is a bit time consuming.

    I am wondering what other prevention&/or maintenance you recommend as long as the engine is disassembled to this point.

    Your advice is appreciated!
    Mark

  842. Hi Justin,

    Thanks in advance for maintaining this AWESOME site! I appreciate having this resource available.

    I have a 2000 Outback purchased new. I now have 140K on it, and hope to put another 140K on it in the next 10 years. I just had the head gasket diagnosed, and am looking at having it repaired. As long as the engine is disassembled to this point, what other maintenance/preventative care should be performed at this point?

    Thanks,
    Mark

  843. Justin,
    I love my 2001 Outback. It has 150,000miles. I have head gasket failure. I will ask the shop tomorrow where. This is my first Subaru. I’ve had it since 60k. I want to keep it another 150,000. Do you have to drop the engine to take the heads off to change the outer gaskets? And would you recommend changing them all? With the gaskets changed and regular maintenance should the motor last another 150k? I hate to give up my car if it is dead in the water!

  844. Triggz,

    I don’t quite understand the Harsh revs thing or how you are pinpointing it to one side or the other.

    If you paid to have a leak fixed and its still there the repairing shop needs to stand behind their work, but I think you know this already.

    If it ran ok prior, then you need to bring that up as well also.

    Maybe take it to a second shop for another opinion, and if the second shop feels the head gasket is still a problem or the drivability issues are related to the work as well, then at that time I would take those findings to the shop that did the work in the first place.

    Justin

  845. Hi Ken,

    Well thats a very unfortunate set of circumstances.

    There are many possibilities as to what might have happened but, but I will try and narrow it down to just a couple, most likely as a result of the head gasket leaking a little internally as well as externally the rod bearing has worn in a non uniform fashion, and then when the combustion chamber pressure was increased as a result of resealing the head gaskets the explosion in the cylinder was greater than before and the increase in pressure pushed a worn rod bearing over the edge.

    This would fall into the “just one of those things that happens” but could have been avoided if the leak was addressed sooner, rather than waiting for it to get worse.

    Or poor quality workmanship and a repair made in the car could have created a situation where Debris made its way into the bearings and destroyed them.

    I have never heard of the Leaks when cold thing being acceptable?

    I hope that helps

    Justin

  846. Hi Justin,

    I had my 2002 Subaru forester head gaskets replaced due to reviews of failing head gaskets of this year & model and to avoid expensive repairs in the future. After a month the head gaskets had been replaced, I have been experiencing harsh revs during morning warm-ups and driving on lower gears . I found a visible leak (not dripping) where one of the head gaskets are located (driver’s side). There is a sign of discoloration like have been wet from oil coming out from where the gasket is located and dried out maybe from the heat of the engine. I checked it bi-weekly in case the discoloration (dried out wetness) is spreading, and it is. I also noticed where that the harsh revs are coming from, and it’s on the same side (driver’s side). I tried to talk to them regarding about this problem but they insisted that it is not a leak and were unhelpful, instead offered me another diagnostic test but I refused.

    Can you help and tell me what the leak and harsh revs is about or any advice that might help, be very much appreciated. Thanks

    triggz

  847. Hi Justin,
    Let me start by saying that I wish that I lived near Seattle!
    I own a 2002 Subaru Outback wagon with the 2.5L engine. I’ve had it since new It started leaking coolant at about 42K which is when I got my notice from Subaru to take it to the Subaru dealer for the head gasket coolant conditioner to be added. I did that reluctantly because I felt that the real fix should have been to replace the HG. The HG continued to leak when engine was cold but Subaru’s statement was that this is normal.Over the years I’ve had my services performed and kept my eye on the coolant level to prevent any overheating issues. I had my timing belt and water pump replaced at 102,000 miles. Well 2 weeks ago I reached 205,000 miles and the engine was running perfectly. So much so that I felt I should continue to keep the vehicle and care for the engine. This is when I made a fatal error in judgment. Since the engine was now leaking oil from the HG as well as coolant I asked the dealer if it might be wise to replace the HGs since I was going to do my timing belt for the 2nd time. They said that they have customers with 300,000 to 400,00 miles on their Subs and are still going strong. So I agreed to do the job “right”. Timing belt,waterpump,tensioner and both HGs.$2100.00 later I got my car back and it seemed to be running fine. No oil or coolant leaks. Then on the 3rd day on my way to work I started to hear a knocking coming from the engine at 2500-3000 rpm. Sounded bad to I dropped it off at the Subaru dealer. I got a call the next day and was told that I have a lower engine noise “sounds like a rod knock or bearing” and it has nothing to do with the work that was performed. They said that I should probably go and see the sales dept because at 205,000 mile it would not be worth repairing. I told them that it must have something to do with the work that was performed and that they should take it apart to inspect their work. They said that they were not going to waste their time unless I wanted to authorize the teardown ($$$ of which I would be responsible for). Long story short (as short as possible), I went to the service director and then to the general manager. They said that they had talked to Subaru corporate and they all agreed it was just something that happens sometimes. After two solid hours of talking to a wall I left the dealership.They will not take any responsibility for what happened. Now I have no car and I’m out $2100.00. Oh, and please “get it off the lot”!!
    My question is this: What might have happened to cause this lower engine knock after only 300 miles? Is this something that just happens sometimes?Should I not have replaced those gaskets? It had been sooooo taken care of. Every oil change on time, etc. I’ve yet to call Subaru corporate but I feel that it might be futile. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
    Sincerely,
    Ken

  848. Justin,

    Thanks for the reply. I will ask the mechanic to check the things you have noted.

    One more piece of information that may help diagnose: I only hear the sound when the car is in gear and I begin to accelerate or turn the wheels to get ready to back out of a parking spot. I can rev the engine in park without the sound occurring. When I would hear piston slap in the winter (at least what I believe is piston slap) I would hear it while the car was in park and idling.

    Does this narrow the possible causes in your opinion.

    Thanks again for your perspective.

    Kevin

  849. Hi Keith

    The Catalyst on your era Subaru is a one piece system.

    The only way to replace just the rear is to weld in a new one which would suggest an aftermarket part is being used which makes me cringe a bit, as I do not suggest any after market Catalytic converters at all as they just don’t last.

    As far as the conditioner its a band aid in many cases, it can prolong the life of the gasket, but we repair many that had the conditioner put in prior.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  850. Hi Kevin

    Piston slap can sometimes increase in sound with a head gasket repair due to the increased combustion chamber pressure.

    I rarely ever suggest replacing the pistons to get rid of the noise.

    I am worried a bit that it could also be valve adjustment, or a worn timing belt tensioner bracket or faulty timing belt tensioner.

    Justin

  851. Hi Sarah

    Its hard to comment about the severity of the noise, but I have never replaced a wrist pin ever. We have done the updated pistons for piston slap, the updated timing belt tensioner bracket for the knock that occurs from the worn tensioner bracket pin.

    Having said that its possible the wrist pin and piston are worn, just not what we see here.

    To the value thing, the value of the car has no bearing on if it should be fixed, it is not an investment but merely a tool, or a necessary evil as a result of urban sprawl and no public transportation in many parts of the country.

    And this is exactly the kind of thinking that gets the average person in a lot of financial problems. The Blue book value is relevant when you are buying a car, but not deciding if you should make repairs.

    I am a broken record here but if you like the car, and it still suits your needs, I will encourage you to make repairs, I promise you that any new car you will buy will depreciate more the first day you own it than you will put into this repair. If you are concerned about your total expense its going to be better for your bank account to keep what you have.

    No having said that, if you don’t like the car , it doesn’t suit your needs than use this as an excuse to make a change, I am sure you deserve it.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  852. Jeff,

    We repair head gaskets as early as 60k and as late as 200k. So its a grey area as to if at 100k if it was going to be an issue would it have shown up by now.

    You are right on target about the inspection first

    A good Pre Purchase inspection by a Subaru Expert should reveal if it is a taken care of or pending issue.

    You should never under any circumstances buy a used car with out an inspection by a real expert on the make. Unless you are buying a car from a reputable shop that has already made repairs and is offering a warranty.

    Justin

  853. hi justin , i have a 2001 forester, just bought it with a 112000 miles , the check engine light came on , so i took it to a mechinic , he said it is probally the cat converter, meanwhile he talked me into flushing the radiator and putting some subaru coolant conditioner in to help any head gasket leaks,will stop any head gasket leaks if there was any? or is it something has to be done when the car is new , i dont knew if the 2001 falls it the better cat of being a better gasket? and as far as the the engine light a local muffler shop said they useally just change the rear cat sence there is 2 , and thats the one that usaully goes out 9 time out of 10 and thows the check light hope they are right , can you help me out on these questions thanks justin

  854. Thanks for maintaining such a great resource. I have a 2003 Forester XS. A couple years ago I started noticing piston slap upon a cold start during the winter months. It would diminish as the car warmed so I wasn’t concerned about it. I never heard it during warmer months (even upon start).

    Last week I had the head gasket, timing belt, and pretensioner replaced. The next day I started hearing a rattling noise upon start that diminishes as the car warms. The sound has a different characteristic than the piston slap I would normally only hear in the winter – it’s a shaper sound with more rattle than knock. I took it back to have it looked at and the dealer told me it is indeed piston slap. He said it could be fixed by replacing the piston skirt.

    I have two questions: 1) do you suspect it is piston slap or does the information I have provided suggest something else (valve covers or poorly adjusted timing belt and pretensioner perhaps)? 2) if it is piston slap I am inclined not to open up the engine and replace the piston skit – do you concur?

    Thanks,
    Kevin

  855. Hi Justin,
    I have a 2003 Forester with 110,000 miles on it. My car has made a loud knocking noise for several years, however, every time that I have it serviced and bring up my concerns about the loudness mechanics say, “That’s just how Subaru’s are.” The knocking noise is present when the car is running and is louder during exceleration. Several weeks ago I had new brakes put on and the mechanic (who specializes in Subaru’s) was alarmed at the noise. He said that there was a problem with a wrist pin in the engine and that I would need to repalace the engine since that is typically done when a small part in the engine is not functioning. The cost of this repair is more than the value of my car. At this point I am feeling nervous about driving long distances and am considering trading it in. I am just wondering what your thoughts are?
    Thank you for your feedback!
    Sarah

  856. First off, very informative site, thank you.

    I understand it’s all subjective, but a 2003 Outback with a 2.5I and has 107,000 miles on it, would you typically expect the head gasket problem to have alreay manifested itself, if it was going to have a problem?

    I’m looking to buy a good used car for my mother and have located the car mentioned above, but the owner is not the original owner and there are no maintenace records with the car. I do plan to have it inspected before I buy.

    Thanks, Jeff

  857. Hi Kristina,

    The best advice I have is to not let the Dealership make any repairs.

    The conditioner really wouldn’t have made that much difference, its just a copout in my opinion, a way of making it your fault and not theirs.

    Now having said that the coolant should have been changed twice or maybe three times since the head gasket repair.

    We have had really good success with the head gaskets we are using and selling.

    May be do some research for a Dealership alternative in your area.

    Justin

  858. I had the head gasket replaced on my 2000 Subaru Legacy back in 2005 or 2006 at the Subaru dealership (they did it for free due to the recall). They did not mention anything about putting a special coolant conditioner in it to keep the new head gasket going and now I am being told that my left head gasket is leaking coolant and it will need to be replaced again. Any suggestions for next steps?

  859. Hello Justin

    Great name, if you are under 40, you were named after me.

    This comes up a lot, I just cant speak to the prices where you live.

    To get a price, you really need to first at find the right shop, one that’s got a great reputation, is Familiar with Subaru, and has a good warranty policy. From there ask what the price is, if you gravitate to the lower price, regardless of what is used, it may not represent any value.
    Get the best repair you can, and you will never look back. We charge about $1500.00 for the head gasket repair, there are a lot of variables that can affect the price, such as timing belt, water pump, etc.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  860. Hello Marcus,

    We can sell you parts, but there isn’t anything you can send to us short of the entire engine, which we have had a few people ship us their engine.

    Sorry but I just don’t have anywhere to send you on the East coast.

    Justin

  861. I have a 2002 Subaru Impreza and it has been diagnosed with a failing head gasket. To insure that I am getting certified Subaru parts, what can I expect the cost to be for the parts on this repair? I am already budgeting on this not being cheap, but I don’t want the shop using after market stuff on this repair.

    Thanks,
    Justin

  862. Hi, I live in New England and I’m looking to buy a 97 Outback and now that I’m aware of potential headgasket problems, I’d like to know:

    -How much does it cost for you guys to take out the engine block, machine a new one and install?

    -You guys know your stuff – is this a repair that I could have the part mailed and machined by you and installed locally?

    -Do you know of any places with knowledge and skill equal to yours in the Northeast?

    Thanks for all the info,
    -Marcus, New Hampshire

  863. Hello Keith,

    First of al putting a junk yard engine in it would have been a disaster, unless you take it apart and replace the head gaskets.

    We have still yet to repair a first gen 2.5l DOHC a second time. The only set of updated Subaru head gaskets for the first gen 2.5l I have yet to see fail was a result of a split radiator tank, and the car was driven into the ground with no coolant.

    So again as long as the repairs are made correctly by a pro,with the updated gaskets, and the car is maintained properly afterwards there is no reason to fear failure avery 60k.

    Having said that, we have a 1999 at the shop right now that has had the head gaskets done twice in one year at another shop before the customer finally brought us the car, and when we got the engine out and apart we found it to have the cheapest aftermarket “EBAY” head gaskets in it that had failed horribly.

    Its important to know who is working on your car, and what is being used, generally speaking, anytime there is a common issue with any car, there will typically be an updated part or procedure that “Joe’s Garage” wont know about.

    Justin

  864. Justin,

    We have had a 1996 Legacy Outback Wagon since new, and it started overheating just before 60K, we took it to the dealer and they could find nothing wrong with the car (Should have had an independant shop look at it), but just over 60K a month later they said it was a blown headgasket and would cost $3K to fix. With my complaints they decided to split the costs with me, still costing me $1500.

    Then at 125K the head gasket went again, this time I was taking the car to an independant mechanic. Knowing how much the head gasket could be I told them not to take the car apart if that is what they thought it was. Unfortunately they went and repaired it anyways and took some money off as I did not authorize the repair (I would have put a junk engine in for cheaper). Now the car is approaching the 180K mark and I know I have to sell it before she blows again. Not sure if I will ever trust a Subaru 2.5L engine of any generation. And I am fanatic about changing the fluids oil gets changed early with synthetic, and coolant flushed every year.

    Keith S. :{)>

  865. Hi Andrew,

    We “back in the day” still replaced head gaskets on the 1.8l and 2.2l, it just wasn’t at the same type of rate as the newer 2.5l.

    So yes it can and does happen.

    You should replace them both

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  866. Hi Justin,

    I’ve got a 1995 1.8L Impreza, and oil started showing up in the coolant about a month ago. Coincidentally (or not), I also noticed that the overflow bottle was tending to not drain back into the radiator and there was a suction on the radiator’s top tube (dirty coolant clogging something?)

    The local Subaru mechanic here in Denver was pretty skeptical that a 1.8 had a bad gasket, but after draining the coolant and immediately seeing oil trickling in, he was convinced. Do you see many 1.8L’s from this era go foul? I’m thinking of doing the replacement myself. Is it possible to determine which side is bad? Should I just replace them both? Thanks for a helpful website.

    Andrew

  867. Justin,

    I’m thinking about purchasing a 2010 Forester. Skimming thru the last couple of years of postings I’m concerned about the past head gasket and oil leak problems with the 2.5L engine. Is it safe to assume those problems have been corrected in the 2010’s? Any advantage in waiting to buy a 2011 instead?

    Thanks and great website.

  868. Hello Dave,

    We have really only seen a few head gasket issues on the H6, and really most of those were on cars that have been neglected.

    The H6 is not prone to the same issues as the same era H4, but not completely isolated from it especially if its neglected.

    Justin

  869. Gregg,

    You should never buy any car without a pre purchase inspection.

    I cant answer what the car may or may not need , the head gasket thing is the typical thing you will have to replace, timing belt is maintenance, as are brakes, clutch hoses belts, fluids filters, etc.

    $5900.00 isnt to big a gamble but you can surely remove most of the gamble from it with a good inspection before buying it.

    Justin

  870. I am looking at a 2002 black manual limited outback that looks super nice but has 166881 miles. Only $5900. They are not sure of any of the repair history. Is this a gamble? What else besides possible head gasket, timing belt can I expect to replace soon.

  871. Hi Justin,
    Do you know of any HG or other problems with the H6 motor? I’m looking at a 2002 with 147 km. Thank you for your dedication to a great website.

  872. Hello Brain,

    I would at a minimum at least keep a careful eye on it; $3000.00 is too high if it was just a head gasket repair. If there were other things done at the same time to keep forward going ownership costs down than that would increase the price.

    I will caution though that if you want to control the costs it better to do the repairs prior to the gasket completely failing and causing damage and the potential for increased costs.

    Justin

  873. I have a 1999 outback with 74,000 miles. My sister’s 1999 outback with 160,000 miles blew a head gasket. $3000.00 to fix. Should I have the head gasket replaced at this time. I cannot afford these kind of problems

  874. Dee,

    I understand the frustration but its well out of any type of a warranty I am afraid.

    It is very ignorant on his behalf to say there is nothing you can do to prolong the gasket life.

    All you can do is call SOA, but I would be surprised if you got very far at all.

    I would not let the dealer fix it a second time unless thats the only way Subaru will participate.

    Justin

  875. Here’s another story of a 2nd gasket failure:

    I have a 2001 Forester with 135000 miles.

    At 40000 miles the dealer said the gasket was leaking and replaced it under warranty.

    Now the dealer says the new gasket is leaking and needs replacing at $1500. In reponse to my direct question, he claimed ignorance of the problems with this engine and says that there is no warranty applicable. He also said that the life of the gasket is not affected by anything I can do.

    I have had the fluids changed per the book. Over the life of this car I’ve spent several thousand dollars on regular maintenance and repairs at this dealer.

    Is SOA likely to help with replacing this second gasket? My argument would be that the replacement failing in under 100K miles indicates a problem.

    Thanks.

  876. Justin,

    Pulling engine out of 2000 Legacy this weekend for head gaskets. Ordered your head gasket kit just now. A few question please. It appears you recommend Subaru coolant, but not the conditioner after this repair, is that correct? In this section, on 1/29/08, you recommended to Ron to use a copper gasket spray on the HG prior to installation, do you advise this on the gaskets you supply? Any suggestions to make a more lasting repair would be helpful and appreciated. Excellent website. Have read a great deal here and it has been very helpful. Thank you very much for the generous information.

  877. I had my 02 forester head gaskets changed in my local shop recently on my 02 subaru forester with 130,000 miles on it. Unfortunately, after a month later I am hearing slight harsh revs during low gears specially during my 1st drive in the morning. I noticed that there is a visible small leak on where one the gasket is located on the driver’s side (the passenger side was ok). I am sure that I am still covered by the warranty on the repairs but I am afraid that I might spend big bucks again for the coolant flush & etc. to do the engine work all over again. Please give me an advice what to do next? TY

  878. Hi Justin,
    Thanks for the information. I am in the market for a used Subaru, I have owned Subarus all my life and have loved every one of them. This will be the first time I am in the market for a newer model and am nervous for obvious reasons. I heard that the head gasket problem was taken care of by ’03 but, test drove an ’05 Outback with 59000 miles on it last night and within 3 blocks it started to overheat. I am looking at an ’06 now and am curious if or when the head gasket issues were taken care of. May just pay for the repair of the struts on my good ‘ol 94 legacy w/ 220,000 miles and keep on truckin’ Thanks Anna

  879. Frank,

    A 2000 Legacy will most likely develop a external oil leak, followed by an external coolant leak and finally an internal combustion to coolant leak causing the vehicle to overheat.

    I understand there is zero pleasure in putting money into a car, but if you want to control your costs its better to repair it before it gets to stage three.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  880. Sam,

    I would put any 1995 Subaru Up against your Honda, but if you are expecting the same results from any new car you buy as you achieved with your 1995 Honda, I hate to tell you this but there is just no chance of that. Due to much stricter Emissions laws and improved vehicle safety features todays cars just have a lot more to go wrong, and by the law of averages they do.

    I think in terms of the quality of the vehicle that Honda, Toyota , Subaru all make good cars that have some flaws.

    I would look into a 2011 Outback if it was me, I don’t think they will have too many more problems with head gaskets now that they are finally using a MLS type head gasket from the factory.

    Justin

  881. Dear Justin
    when I asked about symptom , they explained me smth that I didnt undrestand …. is it possible to find problem with computer or checking sensor? is there another symptom that it is not here in website? they told me that engine tries more than usual to run!! what does it mean?

  882. Dear Justin

    I was reading your website , and found the major common problem for subaru , I have 2000 legacy wagon , so i became curious and showed it to subaru dealership because i bought it two months ago.
    they checked and told me my head gasket got problem and should be changed , 1800 , also we have to check if there is crack on head , and if yes , each head 400 ….
    actually myself , I didnot find any symptom like oil leakage , overheating … car drives smooth and no problem ,m just one day i saw a drop of coolant under engine when it was on hoist , my mechanic told me that is why you changed recently coolant
    … now i confused , even i check radiator when engine running and no bubble. no any sludge in oil or overflow coolant.and it was more strange for me that dealership insisted to repair it soon as possible , when i ask i have to think he told me we have time for two weeks later and two weeks driving is very risky?!! is it right? do you know any subaru expert in Montreal , quebec?please give me advise is it logical i pay 2200 dollars when i am driving without problem?
    thank you for your help

  883. I have a Honda Accord 1995, it has around 290K miles, and still going. I am shopping for a new car just in case. I like Subaru for their design, Honda does not make Outback like vehicle. I was considering Outback/Forester, but after I see problems with head gaskets and other leaks, I am thinking maybe I should simply stick with Honda. Do you think I should buy Honda Accord or Honda CRV for their quality instead of Subaru? Is Honda better quality than Subaru.
    Thank you for answering all these questions, great help.

  884. 04′ Forester xs 79,000 miles. Suspected HG failure.
    Do I gamble $100 on the diagnostic at the dealer in hopes of goodwill from SOA or take it to my local independent guy and bite the whole bullet?
    All scheduled maintenance and oil changed regularly.

  885. Matt,

    Starting in 1999 and Up until 2010 Subaru had used the same head gasket for all non Turbo SOHC 2.5l.

    We typically only see oil leaks on the 05 and newer and not typically coolant.

    Justin

  886. Just wanted to place an update. After initially reviewing this website for information, I contacted Subaru of America and asked if they would help out with the “known” issues with the head gaskets and how they have failed on numerous outbacks since the original service bulletin in 2004 that I had received. To my surprise and thankfully, Subaru agreed to pay half of the service cost to repair my headgasket issues at a local Subaru Dealership that I have been using. I now hope that my Subaru will last at least another 100k miles.

  887. I purchased a 1999 forester SOHC engine has a very small external leak.
    1) Will the extended warranty 8 years,100K aplly to my car.
    2) Has anyone tried Alumaseal radiator sealer?

  888. Hi Justin,
    i was wondering what your experiences are with head gaskets as far as the 2005 non turbo 4’s without the VVT. Are they similiar to the 2004’s or is there something different about these engines for 2005 that would give them less of a potential head gasket issue? i have a 2005 Impreza RS with 51k and every gasket on the engine looks PERFECT =)
    Also, for the 2010 Outbacks, is there a different block design as well as the head gasket, or just the head gasket?

    Thanks for all the time you put into this site

  889. Hi BD,

    That is really a time will tell kind of a thing. While its never great to let your Subaru Overheat, it may have also not done any damage.

    All you can do is to periodically have it checked for exhaust gases in the cooling system.

    If your 04 has had the cooling system conditioner put in it, it may have caused the radiator to clog, or if the cooling system is being maintained based on mileage rather than age that could have caused a problem as well.

    You mentioned you just had the 30k done, but since the car is 6 years old it really should be on its 3rd coolant service.

    Hope this helps.

    Justin

  890. Hi Justin,

    Many thanks for your website! It’s been very helpful to read everyone’s experiences and your replies. I seem to be going down the same road with my Subaru and would appreciate your opinion.

    My 2004 2.5lTS Impreza hatchback suddenly overheated during regular freeway driving and the Subaru dealer recommended replacing the radiator cap, lower radiator hose and thermostat. About three days after that repair, it overheated again. I went back to the dealer, and they replaced the thermostat again, thinking that it may have been a faulty part. That didn’t solve the problem, so they recommended the radiator be removed and flushed. It turns out the radiator was obstructed and I had a new (Subaru, not aftermarket) one installed.

    So far, so good after this latest repair, but I’m very concerned about what’s going to happen next, and if it’s only a matter of time before I’m dealing with a head gasket failure. I did ask them specifically about the head gasket issue and they tested for exhaust in the coolant and said everything was fine. But after reading through the information here, I’m not sure that’s enough.

    I’ve found a reliable independent mechanic that works on Subarus – do you think it’s worthwhile to have him check the car again? It only has 32000 miles on it, and I’ve never missed a maintenance (just had the 30K one done a couple of months ago) or gone longer than 3000 miles for an oil change. It’s always been serviced at the dealer.

    I’m not feeling very good about the car’s reliability at this point. I’m also not feeling good about the dealer service department. Is it normal to have an obstructed radiator with such low mileage?

    BD

  891. I just bought a 1999 Forester L with 65000 miles on it. I am now a bit worried about the head gasket issue. I bought an extended warranty that should cover repairs, if needed for 24000 miles or 24 months. Without a major failure how would I convince the warranty company this is indeed a problem? There is a slight oil leak at one of the heads, but I’ve not owned it long enough to know if this indicates a problem. What all should I watch for???

  892. Hi Paulette,

    I would not use the gasket you mentioned for anything other than Domestic vehicles.

    We offer a better gasket sold in a kit here. https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-parts/

    I typically suggest not using the Subaru Head gasket on the SOHC 2.5l found in your Forester, other than that the rest of the parts should be Subaru parts or the real equivalent.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  893. Hi Jason,

    Its a great idea to take the coolant overflow bottle out and do what you can to Clean all of the residue out, and you do really need to service the battery and put some grease on the terminals.

    Its not necessary to use Subaru Coolant on a DOHC 2.5l found in the 1997, just keep the coolant serviced, if you have no records of when it was last changed, I would suggest having it serviced, or do it your self so you have a base to maintain from.

    Justin

  894. John,

    I hate that the dealer charges more to do it right. I don’t and never will like the idea of repairing head gaskets in the car.

    It’s hard to advise you to spend extra to do what I feel should already be included. Their approach in how they clean the gasket material off, and prep the heads and block may not differ any with pulling the engine out, so it may be a lost cause in terms of paying extra.

    Justin

  895. Hi Justin,
    I read your site (awesome!!) and I was hoping not to have to blog since you are very busy. I may have missed the particulars I am looking for. I have an ’03 Forester w/75,000 miles. I am in need of headgasket repair (external oil leak), thermostat for coolant (leak), and rack & pinion (leak on driver’s side) comfirmed by dealer and independent mechanic. I couldn’t tell whether you suggest going with OEM parts for headgasket or not. My mechanic suggested Felpro. What would you recommend? I don’t want to use non OEM if it will cost me in the end. What other recommendations would you suggest since I will have the engine out? Would you replace other seals, etc? What parts could be non OEM?

    Thanks for your advice. If I was not 1800 miles away I would stop in.

  896. Justin, yesterday I purchased a used 97 Subaru Outback with 189,000 miles on it. After reading this website I became very concerned. I did some research on the history of the car and found out that it had a new timing belt, water pump, and crank seal at 105k, and new heads at 118k. I have yet to notice any problems with the car, but after checking the overflow tank there is a little bit of a black residue, and the inside of the hood shows the white acid corrosion you were talking about. I’m wondering if this might be due to its previous problems and if its fine now. What checks can i perform/preventative measures can I take. Also do you reccomend getting subaru coolant? and where do i get this? thank you SOOOOO much. After reading this I believe you may have saved American consumers nearly $100,000 and you should be commended.

  897. We have a 2005 outback wagon with 71000 mi. we do like the car for all the obvious reasons but kind of a lot of problems for a dealer maintained commuter car we do all the scheduled maintenance and the car has a head gasket leak.The dealer is doing the in car repair.I can clearly see how any job would go better with the motor out of the car. Do you think the dealer repair will be good enough or should we pay the price and force them to remove it against their will? we want the car forever but how long is that John

  898. Dan,

    Typically the conditioner will help slow down small leaks, or may even prevent some external leaks from occurring while still under warranty, I do not consider it a real fix for the leak only a measure to help prevent leaks form occurring, what I have found over the years is that the vehicles that have the conditioner put in will typically go longer before needing the repairs, the conditioner will in some cases clog the radiator and heater core, and if the leak is large enough it may not work at all.

    Justin

  899. Raja,

    Typically recalls are more about safety and less about gasket leaks.

    While I completely understand your frustrations, there really isn’t any way for me to advise you on something like that.

    Justin

  900. Justin, first, another big THANKS to you for the extremely helpful head gasket etc. info. I’m now on the verge of replacing my trusty old 1996 2.5L, 300k on it, and you’ve helped me avoid some of the HG issues with some newer ones I’ve looked at.

    Also, I’m actually writing a book primarily about the societal value of repair and maintenance, and making things last longer. Would you be interested in being interviewed for the book? I’m interested in talking to people who have done repairs professionally for years, or otherwise might have interesting things to say about repair and maintenance. Let me know.

    Thanks again.

  901. oh i wish i had found your website 2 weeks ago! i am having overheating problems on my 98″ legacy wagon, it is intermittently hot then runs fine, replaced the thermostat and same thing. is there any chance of some kind of plug or malfunctioning water pump? i can already guess you are going to tell me head gaskets aren’t you. any recommendations on where to get it done? absolutely fantastic site you have!

  902. Hi Justin, Crap, this really sucks. Just bought a 2000 Forester L with 144,000 miles and noticed coolant odor after driving, noticed coolant (only forming 2 drips after sitting several hours)at the back of the LH head. You suggest that these Phase II engines leak EXTERNALLY.According subaruheadgasket.com Subaru reccomends a coolant conditioner witha coolant service that may stop this leak. Is that possible? If I monitor the leak, approx how long before it becomes an internal leak? Thank You

  903. Information on this site about Subaru Head gasket problem is excellent.
    I have a 2003 Subaru Forrester. Current mileage is about 68K. Started
    observing symptoms explained on this site…external coolant and oil leakage.
    Subaru dealership master technician suggested head gasket replacement.
    Since I want to keep the car for long time got the work done. Cost me about $1900.

    My question is … how can we force Subaru to start recall on 2003 cars ?
    What action on my part is required to contribute to initiate a recall.
    I hear from several dealership service department that they are replacing
    head gaskets on Subaru cars a lot. Even the independent auto shops seem to see a lot of head gasket failures. How can we make Subaru take responsibility for it ? OR is this unreasonable request ?

  904. Triggz,

    You can always Call Subaru Of america and plead your case, but at 130k, I would say thats going to be difficult to try and get covered, especially if its another year or so before the head gaskets have truly failed.

    As far as the catalyst, there really is no need to replace it if it is working, it is definitely too expensive to ever do as maintenance.

    Justin

  905. Maura,

    Head gaskets are a possibility, but to be very honest your symptoms are pretty extreme and it may be way beyond just a standard head gasket repair.

    It is really tough from here to advise you, all I can really suggest is taking to a Subaru Expert locally to you, when I was in Florida last summer I didn’t see very may Subaru’s to say the least, so Im not sure that there are to many Subaru Shops there.

    Justin

  906. I have a 2002 Subaru Forester with 130,000 miles on it. Fortunately, I didn’t experience head gasket issues as of yet but I’m planning to take care of this matter with my mechanic ASAP. Unfortunately, I will need to save money & time for the repair and also herd about the catalytic converter failure so I should settle this issues at the same time. Do you think Subaru did some additional warranties on 99 – 02 Foresters regarding about this issues? Any info will help. Thank You

    triggz

  907. Hi Justin,

    Just bought a 1997 Subaru Legacy Wagon. Took the first ‘real’ drive on I75 in Florida *the vehicle has been down here from NJ for the past 9 years we were told*. The engine smoked, whitish /gray, coming off the hood, I stopped, shut the engine off, filled with water after it cooled. The reservoir had this orangy oily liquid in it and when we shut the cap on the radiator, and cranked the car, it would blow like a gieser and spew the stuff all over.

    A local oil changing shop with one mechanic said it was the head gasket but my husband who is also a mechanic is not 100% sure so we towed it home. The issue is, it that it turns OVER but it won’t fire. I bought the car for $1500 and it has 124K into it. The engine light was always on…thought it was just busted it had a new radiator in the vehicle, it’s clearly been worked on in the past. Cheap enough car and really just for kicking around this island we are on.

    Oh, the oil light and battery light now come on. There is no thermostat in the engine.

    Just wondering if we should toss a couple grand more into it and avoid another registration tax cost (in FLA here was over $400). Try to fix ourselves or junk it…

  908. Hello Jordy,

    I actually did have what I called a model Guide on the first website design we had prior to making the change to this on in 2006.

    No one has really asked for it back or the FAQ page we had as well.

    I will put some effort in to updating the documents I already have and putting them on the site in the coming weeks, but I will admit I am spread really thin right now and have many projects I am behind on already.

    I have thought about the banner adds or a adsense campaign, I just worry about the site losing what I had tried to create. But I will also tell you I would really like to expand the site to include a catalog of info and tips, and maybe a real forum.

    To do this I need to do a revamp and this will cost me. So it may be awhile before I go there.

    I sincerely appreciate the positive feedback. and the willingness to put up with some adds.

    No to the Subaru question, I like the 2004 a little bit better, but thats really only because its a little more refined. The 2002 will probably treat you just fine as well.

    I am a broken record here, but I really have to say of you buy the most solid Subaru you can find, and know there is a chance it may have to have a head gasket repair I think you will come to be pretty happy with that decision, they are a great safe, reliable car with the best AWD system out there.

    The single biggest testimonial I can give about these cars is that every single one of my customers that has ever been in an accident in one that led to a total of the vehicle has came out ok, and knew instantly they would buy another Subaru with the insurance check.

    Justin

  909. Stan,

    There isn’t anything I can advise you on there at all. There is no “TDC” in a power steering system, the center position of the Rack and pinion wouldn’t have much to do with the problems you are describing, when you turn there is load, and then pressure, when you stop turning there is less load and pressure.

    There are pressure tests that can be done, to determine if there are any power steering related issues, and specs to measure the test results against.

    Justin

  910. Hi Nathan,

    This is typically the questions that come up when a non Subaru shop looks into these repairs. So why the Subaru dealer is warning of cracked heads at this stage is a little puzzling.

    Its not common for the heads to crack, there are test that can and should be done to verify the diagnoses.

    Are they trying to sell you a car?

    If you make repairs, there are always possibilities of further things being discovered once it is apart, but there is also the possibility I may win my states lotto this weekend, and well stop blogging for a while.

    I don’t know all of the facts because I am not involved in the diagnoses of your car and don’t know the extent of all of the circumstances, all I can tell you is its not typical to replace heads, and the block but it does sometimes happen in the most extreme cases of neglect.

    Juston

  911. Stephen

    We recently had a customer look for the perfect Subaru, we did 4 pre purchase inspections for him. Every one was going to need the repair, he had a mind lock on not wanting to buy anything that would need repairs. So he decided to buy a Volvo, we had nothing to do with the inspection of the Volvo he bought, and only learned about it after he called to ask If I knew anyone that could put a Transmission in his “new to him used Volvo” he just bought the month before.

    The trans repair was much more expensive than any head gasket replacement he would have ever done and was totally unexpected.

    My point in all of this is, if you like the Subaru stay for the head gasket thing, my advise is to buy the most Solid Subaru you can find, buy it, make the repairs and in a few months you will never look back.

    Justin

  912. Jack,

    You take measurements and than buy the components coupled with your Subaru VIN#

    You can call any Subaru parts department and ask for the part numbers but I would not buy anything until you have made sure you have a standard bore.

    Justin

  913. Hi Justin,
    I have three proposals to improve your fantastic site that I hope would help everyone.

    1) I really wish there was a place where I could donate money for all of this information and time you put in, and I’ve heard others saying similar. You are saving us so much money! Please, balance out this relationship and let us give back a little.

    2) Another way to pay for your time – look into banner ads. We won’t mind! 🙂

    2) A lot of questions (and my question) are about buying a used Subie. What if you put this buying info in one post and sent people there? (I searched on your site for this, couldn’t find it.)
    Example (warning to Justin’s readers – I am doing this from memory after scouring Justin’s site – NOT totally accurate):
    1990-1999 – with 2.2l engine. Great engine, much fewer gasket issues than 2.5l. But may have valve guide issues (much rarer than any head gasket issues. Use this design gasket (picture).
    1996-1999 1st gen 2.5l – worse gasket design – will definitely need head gasket replaced in its lifetime. Used this gasket design (picture).
    2nd gen 2.2l – still great engine with???
    2000-2004? 2nd gen 2.5l – better gasket design – can go to 300,000 with proper maintenance. (picture of gasket)
    2005-2009 – 2.5l – fewer gasket problems but more complex engine with VVT. Turbo and H6 better gaskets so fewer problems, but more expensive to maintain.
    2010 – 2.5l – hallelujah! Finally fixed the gaskets with the design Justin has been recommending. Maybe they’ve been reading this forum.

    Justin, I’m even happy to write it for you and send you a draft for editing. It may take a phone call with you.

    I am looking at a 2002 with 115,000 miles. It seems good, but would it be better to spend a bit more money on a 2004 since it’s in the same price range and I think you said has fewer gasket issues?

    Thanks! If you want advice on placing ads on your site, if you want me to author your buying guide, let me know. I’m not looking to make any money, I promise – just really like your site and want to help. (I also was Subie mechanic in college, and for fun own a mint ’85 BRAT.)

  914. After reading some of the posts, I realized this is not just for head gasket issues. OK, here is one:
    My 2000 Legacy Brighton has steering issues. Previous owner’s son drove over (hit?) some curbing, and repairs were done. I think that maybe the impact damaged the valve that controls the variable power steering. In that, I think the valve is wide open, asking the pump to deliver hi pressure all the time. The car seems to have a very prominent “detent” at TDC – takes a bit of effort to rock it off TDC, but as soon as I’m off TDC and turning a bit, the steering wheel is VERY easy to turn. During very cold temps, at idle, when I turn the wheel, the steering “grumbles” very low frequency vibration, as if this valve is fluttering. I even turned the wheel slowly from outside the driver’s window (wheels on ice) and could wee the front wheels ‘shimmy’ with the vibration sound. Can this valve be replaced, or am I looking at a total PS unit replacement? thanks

  915. sorry, the page finally loaded, and corrected background.
    I own 2000 Legacy Brighton. Dealer installed conditioner by first owner. 140,000 mi and no problem yet.

  916. Hi Justin,

    I spoke a bit further with my dealership/mechanic and there is a bit more pertinent information that I should add to my initial question above.

    The mechanics department is telling me that when I dropped the car off, there was no coolant in the system (completely drained). They topped up the coolant and took it for a drive. They got a warning code that the engine was running hot/coolant temp sensor indicating high after about 4km. They believe the car was badly overheated and was running without coolant for a time, and that because of this there will likely be any number of types of engine damage, one of which could be cylinder heads. They are recommending to not proceed with any type of repair and abandon the car altogether.

    I’m trying to sort out whether they are mis-diagnosing a head gasket seal problem, or if their concern of engine damage is warranted. They refer in broad terms to their bredth of experience with situations like these. It’s quite possible that I was running without coolant for a time, as I’m a new car owner and not used to checking for these types of things regularly. My last servicing, including a coolant check, would have been in late August of 2009.

    Do you have any recommendations? Are there particular tests they could run to gain a clearer diagnosis of the problem? The technician says he’s spent 1.5 hours on the car thus far. Not sure if that means anything or not.

    Best Regards,

    Nathan

  917. Hi Justin,

    It’s been said many times, but thank you so much for your insight and dedication. I have a two-part question, with the first part being my most critical.

    1) I have a 1998 Outback that spent most of it’s life (until 2006 or so) in a cold climate back east. Since being out west, the car has been driven on long, mountain trips often, and on Saturday the car stalled at a stop sign and has since been diagnosed with a broken head gasket, per the norm for this model. The diagnosis was given to me by my local Subaru Dealership, who also estimated a 3000$ repair bill. They also, however, cautioned that sometimes cars with this problem that have been exposed to expansion and contraction for most of their lives, as in a cold belt area, will sometimes have not only broken gaskets, but also cracked cylinder heads and that if they began work to replace the head gaskets and discovered cracked cylinder heads this would add several thousand dollars more to the repair.

    From what I’ve scanned in your forum I have not noticed any talk of this type of problem. Should I be second guess proceeding with the gasket repair, or is there anything I could ask the mechanics to do diagnose the potential problem(s) before proceeding with repairs?

    2) If I go ahead with a gasket repair, are there other key components that should be checked and serviced (battery, coolant, oil, as per original blog post, etc)?

    Many Thanks again,

    Nathan

  918. FWIW, sadly, in the past 10 days I have had three Subaru’s checked out by my mechanic on pre purchase inspection. All three had the beginning leakage on the left front, and one on the right, also. These were 2001,2,3 with 91k-115k miles. I walked away from all three. There were other reasons, too. It was the combination of repairs they needed that were too much.

  919. Ref: Posting 756.

    Your points are well taken.

    But I’m willing to take the risk.

    Can you provide part numbers for the updated pistons ?

    Thanks Jack

  920. Hi Sharon,

    There is a pretty good chance it will need to have head gaskets done. Its just a gasket, most do fail with time.

    I am a broken record here but just about any car you buy will have some sort of typical issue, the head gasket thing sticks with Subaru because they don’t have as many different engines they only have a few.

    The rest of the car is pretty solid.

    Justin

  921. Hi Jack,

    Ok the Subaru piston slap thing is more involved than just updated pistons as the engine wears than installing the updated pistons on a low mileage car under warranty.

    If the walls are measured, and above standard tan you now have a big job, not that you didn’t before.

    After its all done, there really is no guarantee the noise will be gone entirely, or wont come back.

    I have put these in, the results do vary.

    Piston slap related to “skirtless” pistons should get better as the engine warms up.

    Justin

  922. Shabs

    Congrats on the Legacy RS, but that car never existed here in the U.S.

    The O.E. gasket was most likely Composite, and the replacement MLS.

    Both sides that face the engine heads and block should be the same color and have the exact same make up. I have no idea what you have bought though.

    It needs to be checked for exhaust in the cooling system, and if none found than checked for air pockets, restricted radiator etc.

    Justin

  923. Andy,

    Frustrating!

    There is no excuse for a Subaru Dealership to not come to the right conclusions for you.

    Most likely its a Head Gasket issue, and yes based on the amount that it has overheated its very possible there is at a minimum warped heads, which is correctable, but if the block is warped or the rings contracted its not very repairable. Or at least not at a Subaru Dealer ship short of a New Short block.

    You really need to be strong and assertive, and have the Dealer fix this for you.

    The fact that they have had a couple of shots at fixing it is kind of alarming, especially on a known issue like a head gasket.

    Justin

  924. Brian,

    There are all sorts of possibilities including mounts and mis positioned brackets etc.

    Could also be a shift solenoid issue

    Its really hard to say.

    Justin

  925. Is it safe to assume that all 1999 Foresters will develop a head gasket problem (if it hasn’t already?) It makes me wonder if it is worth looking at these vehicles knowing that there may be a $$ repair, possibly in the near future.
    (particular vehicle for sale has 137,000 miles).

    Thanks.

  926. I read in a previuos posting of pistons now available which will help with “piston slap”.
    QUESTION: are these pistons slightly ellipical in cross section ?
    My 2003 2.5 Outback runs great, but the piston slap noise is really bothersome ( and I did replace the tensioner and tensioner bracket…didn’t reduce the noise )
    QUESTION: these new pistons for piston slap…..what are the part numbers ( I guess these are avilable thru SOA ? )
    Thanks

  927. HI,

    I have a big problem with my legacy. It is a 97 Legacy RS 2.0l twin turbo. I have replace the radiator cap, water pump, and have tried different radiator to see if the problem goes away but no luck. The car starts and runs fine when it is running stationary and fans come on when it warms up and they turn off an everything is normal. As the car is driven for a bit the bottle on the side of radiator starts filling up but the gauge doesnt go up and stays slitly below halfway. after replacing everything we taught it might be the head gaskets. we then replaced the gaskets but the problem still exist. the old gasket was just a graphite one and we put the 3 layer steel gasket that you have shown in the last picture of gaskets.

    we gave up and got sick of it so i end up searching online and came across this page. can you help us with this??? and also which side of gasket do you put towards the block? the steel side or the black side?

    we put the steel side of it towards the block.

    I will be waiting for your reply and thanks a lot for having this website it really is abig help.

  928. Also I meant to ask about how long will a new set of headgaskets last before having the same problem again?

  929. Justin,

    I bought a 1997 Subaru Outback Legacy from a local Subaru dealership used. It has 137K on it. 3 days after I bought it the car ran hot. I turned the switch off and then back on and the car did fine. The next day after driving about 250 miles the car ran hot again. This time turning the car off did not help and I had to get it towed to the dealership. The heat never blew hot and the car never steamed over. I checked all the fluids when it first over heated and the over flow was full. After trying to run the car again the heat still never blew hot but after stopping the secong time the overflow was empty and the radiator was low. They ran it for three days and it never ran hot for them so they replaced the thermastat. I got the car back and drove it for 3 days and put about another 200 miles or so on it and it overheated again. The dealership pressure tested the system and said everything checked fine. Both times the overflow filled up and then eventually drained back down. This last time a little steam could be seen from the overflow side of the radiator but the cap was cold and I could hear the fluid drain from the coolant system when I turned the car off. Does this sound like a bad head gasket to you and also do you think there has been any damage done to the car? The oil does not look milky and the fluid in the radiator looks green and good still. They checked all the fluids and said they looked fine when they replaced the thermastat. I got a verbal 30 day warranty from the salesman but my paperwork said as is. They replaced the thermastat free of charge and has honored that so far. But I am concerned if it is a headgasket they may not. Is this something still covered by Subaru?
    Any help and comments would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Andy

  930. I have a ’99 Outback. Was considering a new 2010 but don’t like the bloated look, so now I’m taking it to a Subaru dealer for a complete mechanical assessment (suspension/drive train too), as it’s near due for a second timing belt and there’s bubbling in the coolant bottle. If the price is right for all issues identified by the mechanic, I’ll keep it. But there’s another issue: occasionally (several times a year) while on the highway, when I accelerate to pass, the tranny hesitates before downshifting, then does so with a disturbing bang. What could cause this, is it a maintenance issue or sign of imminent tranny trouble? Thanks for your help.

  931. Dan,

    I am afraid you may have been misinformed, there was only 60k warranty on the head gaskets for the DOHC 2.5l found in the 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback, not sure about any warrant y coverage @ 125,000. Pretty good life for a gasket.

    Justin

  932. James,

    The heads need to be checked for warp, and if warped, corrected, the ones that overheat have a greater chance of being warped, which is one reason it makes sense To fix the Subaru before it gets to that point.

    The gaskets we use, require a good finish to seal, as will any gasket.

    Justin

  933. Sarah,

    Most of the issues we see with the 2005 and newer Subaru Models as it pertains to head gaskets is oil leaks, no coolant leaks, and the mileage is much higher than the 2000 to 2004 models.

    I won’t say there are no issues, I will say not nearly as much as in the past.

    Justin

  934. I have a 1999 legacy outback. I had it serviced by a subaru specialist recently and they told me that my head gaskey was leaking just as you describe and I can expect it to over heat on long mountain passes. They told me that at 125,000 miles i might just be under warranty still and should go jump up and down and yell at the subaru dealership and might get a free replacement. My question is what exactly do I need to say to the dealer to get the head gasket replaced? Should I go in person? Email? call? Thank you!

  935. Hello Justin,
    I stumbled across your site for the first time, and have been here reading for the past two hours….I wanted to ask a couple of questions if I could? I’ve been a heavy equipment and truck mechanic for years and also had my fair share of “Boxer Bugs” years ago. I know my way around mechanical devices in general, but I have recently inherited a 2004 Forester X; 110000K on it. Among other things, there are two concerns I have:

    1. The first is the famous oil and coolant leak from the left head. I plan on doing the gasket job myself, but I was wondering if you feel that most of these jobs can be performed without milling the heads….how “forgiving” are the new gaskets? Any percentages on HG jobs you perform that including milling? How many include new bolts?

    2. I also have a rather loud engine tick/almost knock especially when the engine is cold. The colder it is, the louder it is (which happens a lot here in Buffalo). The tick smooths out a lot when the engine gets hot- almost not noticeable. I recently replaced the timing belt, tensioner, and updated bracket which, although due, did not affect the tick. My stethoscope helps to generalize the tick location…it seems to be coming from the Left Front (#2?) cylinder or head area. Its does not sound like piston slap. Can the valves be the cause of this noise, and which are more prone to needing adjustment- the exhaust valves I presume?

    You input and expertise would be greatly appreciated…..and thanks for taking the time to maintain a resource like this!

    James

  936. Hi Justin,
    I am “letting go” of my 97 Legacy wagon,automatic. I want to replace with the same everything, just newer. Re: head gasket thing, is the problem still occurring with 04-06 models, or are they having any other issues that I might want to know about?

    Thanks so much for all this incredible information!
    Sarah

  937. Great Site, like the information received. I have a 2001 Subaru Outback Wagon ltd, 2.5. Replaced the left head gasket back in Jan 2004 @ 38k miles. Under Warranty at local Subaru Dealership here in Upstate NY. Had 90k mile service performed at end of September 2009, 90480miles on car then. Took my car in for a standard LOF and too check out couple noises. Have smealt coolant couple x’s in last month, which I wanted to have checked out and possibly replace hoses & connector if that was the cause. Was informed that one of the noises is being caused by torque converter vibration until the fluid heats up. Also was informed that replacing the hoses was not the issue, but that the head gaskets were leaking and need to be replaced. Looking to call original dealership that I had perform the original Left head gasket replacement to see if they will repair the gasket under the warranty that should still be in effect by SOA (8yrs/100K extended from date of repair). Hoping this will fix the issues. This is a decent car, but have started to see that some of the emission and suspension parts are starting to fail and need to be replaced, much of which are typically costly to say the least.

    Thanks again for Having a Great site with lots of detailed information about the Subaru Cars.
    Marty

  938. Hello Kim,

    I also sent you an email.

    Any Subaru Dealer that wants to charge you for an oil dye test to figure out if you have a Head gasket leak is a little concerning. A good Subaru Tech will know what is wrong without a dye test.

    The head gasket price is about average, but I suspect the repairs will be made in the car.

    Justin

  939. Hello – I posted my question last night, but now I don’t see it here. My apologies for any duplication. While my 2004 Impreza Wagon (2.5) was at the dealer yesterday to diagnose a noise (turned out to be some kind of belt) they “noted an oil leak at head gasket area.” They’ve recommended to clean the engine and insert a die to do a black light inspection to see where the leak is. They’ve also quoted $1500-1600 to replace the hg, barring anything else wrong. I’m out of warranty at this point. Does the test sound reasonable? Does the repair price sound fair (I’m in Olympia). Thank you for your opinion.

  940. Thank you for having this site. I took my 2004 Subarun Impreza Wagon (2.5) in for a noise it was making. While diagnosing that problem, they noted an “oil leak at head gasket area.” The dealer has recommended that I bring the car in to have the engine cleaned and install a die to perform a black light inspection to identify the cause of the leak. They also quoted a $1500-1600 price tag for replacing the head gasket, as I am no longer under warranty. Does the die test sound like a good idea? Is the repair price fair (I’m in Olympia, WA). Thank you.

  941. great site.i am an independent tech looking for a source for a better price for subaru parts.i am in southern oregon.the local dealer is charging me 40 bucks each for head gaskets.got any leads on better price on oe parts?

  942. Zac,

    If you followed he manual you spoke of and used a non proven head gasket, the problem may be in the repair, did you check the engine block for warp?

    There are a lot of possibilities, but with the bubbles it very well could be you didn’t get a good seal.

    Justin

  943. Pablo,

    There is nothing in a bottle that will permanently fix your Subaru.

    If the head gaskets are blown there is no reason to junk the entire engine, its just a gasket leak, not a rod, or crank failure.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  944. Michael,

    You wont see oil and coolant mix as a result of a head gasket issue typically in a Subaru, the misfire should be diagnosed prior to any engine work.

    A failed head gasket is one of many possibilities.

    If the heads are warped they need to be machined if they are flat they don’t.

    Justin

  945. Justin,
    I was wondering if you could help me with my 2000 Forester with 135k which I have had overheating issues. I am at the point where I’m about ready to throw in the towel on fixing it. I have recently replaced the head gaskets and changed the water pump, thermostat, and radiator. I also took the heads in to be inspected and shaved down to a clean surface. It first started overheating intermitently and progressively got worse. Once I finished the head gasket replacement (gaskets looked like they were blown) and drove the car for about 50mi at 40-60mph and the temp gauge again spiked, the problem had returned. As soon as I saw a rise in temp on the gauge I shut the car off, and the car would cool down quickly. Minutes after the gauge spiked I could grab the intake manifold with my hands and the engine temp would return to normal at idle. Every time the car would overheat the surge/overflow tank would fill up. Lastly, while I was bleeding the coolant system (after head gasket replacement) their was a fairly constant supply of bubbles in the radiator (assuming its exhaust). I guess what my question is, have you ran into problems with internal cracks in the block or heads (I have no external cooloant leakage)? Do you have any other ideas what it could be? Also I am no mechanic so do think it could be a issue with my head gasket replacement (I followed ther Haynes manual as much I could)? Any help would appreciated, thanks again
    Zac

  946. I have a 96 Subaru Outback. Our car is starting to overheat. The mechanic said that the head gaskets are going and that I should consider replacing the engine. I do have some of the other classic symptoms such as murky coolant in the reservoir.

    Could using a head gasket repair liquid sold at an auto parts store help to either alleviate or resolve potential head gasket problem?

    As always great website.

  947. First i got to say, this page is full of great advice. Now the problem i have is with a 96 Legacy with 218k on it i just bought. The former owner took it to a shop for a presale inspection and he told her it needed a water pump to explain the slow loss of coolant. So after i got it home i put a new pump, upper hose and radiator (other reasons for the hose and rad) and its still losing coolant very slowly. Now ive notice a small amount of white smoke the first minute or so its running for the day. So im thinking it needs a head gasket. It did throw some engine codes , one being a misfire on cylinder 1, could this be related. Now if i do replace the HG, do the heads need machined on these motors? its never overheated (in my possesion). The oil is dark black with no signs of coolant mixing. Your thoughts?

  948. Annette,

    I am not sure I understand the question?

    A properly repaired and maintained vehicle doesn’t need anything other than what it cam equipped with as far as warning systems.

    There isnt really anything else to add other than maybe a set of mechanical gauges but that would be expensive and may not help anything anyways.

    If you take your Subie to a Subaru Expert for oil changes they should be able to spot any issues brewing early.

    The check engine light is more about the emissions system and less about the engine.

    You can run a car out of coolant and oil and the “check engine light” will never come on.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  949. Bill,

    If the lower hose is staying cold there is either an air pocket in the cooling system, a restricted radiator, defective t-stat etc. It should be a real easy thing for a Good Subaru Tech to figure out.

    The hose will not become warm until the thermostat opens and full coolant flow is achieved.

    You didn’t specify if the head gasket work was done at the dealer?

    I do have the one question though.

    Why would you accept repairs done at a dealer that weren’t complete?

    Justin

  950. Hi Justin – Our mechanic located a 98 engine with around 50,000 and will install it for $2,000 or so. The idea of dealing with the timing belt and having a nearly new engine was very appealing. I have a question about the coolant system and how we can avoid this from happening again. A leaky radiator cap looks like the prime suspect. However, it’s a pretty hard problem to detect, e.g., it’s not part of an oil change which we do regularly. By the time the temperature guage moves toward the red zone, it could be too late since these engines are very sensitive to overheating. Are there any other “early warning” systems that we should consider? By the way, the check engine light has never come on. Thank you again for your thoughtful and forthcoming responses. Annette

  951. I have a legacy wagon 2005 with 70000 miles.Noticed smell of coolant and bottom radiator hose cold. Subaru dealer said both head gaskets needed to be replaced work was done and bottom hose still cold,dealer replaced radiator and thermostat. engine has never overheated and temp gauge is in the middle. have ran the car for over two hours and bottom hose still cold. its Feb. in Vermont outside temp not above 32. how long should it take for bottom hose to get warm? After reading some stories I do not want to replace the heads a second time.

    Thank

  952. Evan,

    Those prices are a little high, but no its not crazy.

    I am a broken record and this is the last time I will say this in the next 1/2 hour but the value of the car means nothing when trying to figure out if you should repair it.

    The value of the car is only important to a dealer trying to sell it.

    Instead focus on YOUR Finances, what makes the most sense for your bank account. Any car you own will lose a little value each day.

    https://allwheeldriveauto.com/the-truth-about-a-cars-blue-book-value/

    Here is what I think about Blue Book Value.

    Justin

  953. Scott,

    The newer vehicle have more oil than coolant leaks, so I would say yes the O.E. Subaru coolant is important in terms of cars with the O.E. Subaru head gaskets.

    Justin

  954. Yes, the brakes on the LL beans are undersized! (2003 in my case).

    Just to share- my wifes ’05 forester 2.5 NA is just under 50Kmiles, just under 5 years, and the head gaskets are leaking oil. I have some great photos of the leaks, but dealer has claimed there is no leak.

    Undecided whether to duke it out with the dealer where we bought the car (1 year ago), or to go to a more local (and smaller) dealer.

    https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4379412710_cda37a8741.jpg

    https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4042/4378658333_898acac13c.jpg

    Read the part about getting a better seal with the engine out- I know the dealer won’t do it that way, if it was out of warranty and I was doing it myself I’d have to think about it- once out the access is great, but a pain to get to that point.

    Dave

  955. Justin,
    I’m repairing a 2000 forester 2.5L for a friend. Do I need to use any copper sealant on the gasket? Do I need to seal the head bolts with anything?
    Thanks,
    David

  956. I own a 2009 impreza outback sport. Is there any issues with the heads on my generation subaru since you guys said Subaru has changes the design for 2010?

  957. I had a full HG job done in Colorado – removed engine, milled heads – all is good – shop asked me to come in for the 3000 mile oil change and check up – the technician theat did it no longer works there and the new guy doesn’t seem particularly familiar with Subarus – is there any special follow up to a HG job – should I find a new shop to do the follow up – thanks.

  958. Our local Subaru dealer has given us an estimate of about $4,600 for the following repairs on our 2001 Outback with 145k miles: head gaskets (last done at 35k under warranty) $1900 if need resurfacing, catalytic converter $760, knock sensor $230, coolant fan $300, front and rear brakes w/ rotors turned $675, both CV boots $405, power steering rack boots $266, plus updating the car computer $110.

    Is it crazy to do this on a car that will be worth about $7,500 in our area after the repair (lots of small dings)?

    Our plan, before we were told of these repairs, was to keep the car as our first car for 2-3 more years years (two small kids), then use it as a second car for another 5+ years for around-town and mountain snow trips after we get a used FWD minivan as a first car.

    Thanks.

    Evan

  959. Wow, what a great write up!!!!!
    I too, was a victim of headgasket failure at only 79K on my 2001 Forester. I’ve since had it repaired by an Independent Subaru garage here in Los Angeles and as far as I can tell, they did an excellent job. And yes, the engine was pulled to do the job properly. Since we had the access, I had the timing belt, front seal, water pump, thermostat and other odds and ends replaced. I’m very fastidious about checking and changing all my fluids and routine maintenance on my car. I do wonder about two things: Is the Genuine Coolant conditioner really effective and are other watercooled Boxer engines like Porches and Ferraris prone to the headgasket issues like us?
    Thanks for any and all responses.
    /Scott

  960. Hello John,

    Congratulations, the 2010 WRX is a very nice car.

    Yes we can handle all of you maintenance needs and help you maintain your Factory warranty. The Magnuson-Moss act prevents the Dealer / Subaru from denying warranty coverage based on not having all of your service work done at the Dealership service department.

    Instead one of the reasons I really suggest having someone independent be part of the Maintenance process is we are here to help you get as much as your new car warranty as possible, by informing you of things as they arise by doing a good inspection as part of every oil change.

    You than can go back to a Dealer service department informed and in many cases having seen the issue your self out in our shop as we always invite you in to come take a look, you spent a lot of money and you deserve to get as much out of it as possible.

    The way it can work at a dealer is the Tech may not be inclined to recommend any work that is under warranty especially if you aren’t complaining of anything.

    As far as synthetics, I like the idea of a blend, and changing the oil every 3 to 4k, the oil filter is so small it really just doesn’t justify synthetic as the oil filter will probably be in by pass mode and due to be changed while the full synthetic oil may still be ok.

    We would be happy to service your WRX , and if the time comes for anything fun, we can help with that too.

    Justin

  961. So I just purchased a 2010 Impreza wrx and am wondering if you had any insights into what type failures I am likely in for. Anything in particular to be on the look out for? Also, do you have any thoughts about synthetic oil? Lastly, since I am in Seattle could I bring my car to you rather than the dealer while maintaining my warranty?

    Thanks,

    John

  962. Jeff,

    Its like this, there are good shops that will make that repair the right way, taking the engine out and not charge anymore to do so.

    In my opinion the engine should always come out to make the repairs.

    Justin

  963. Annette,

    Any used engine that goes in will need to have all of the gaskets and seals put in it as well or the repairs just wont last and really wont be of much value.

    We often make repairs to Subaru’s with that kind of mileage and higher with no issue, I would suggests investigating your engine first, if it has some sort of a problem than move on to a used engine and reseal that one, as long as it is done right you should be good for another 160k.

    Justin

  964. Thanks for answering me I will get a detailed estimate from both.

    Can they tell if the heads are warped easily or does the measurement require special instruments that they only have at the machine shop? The first shop sends the heads to the machine shop as a matter of course(I as told that it adds about $650 to the cost of the job) because they assume that it might have over heated and want to be sure that everything is right. The other no. So i assume it would up the price if this was needed.

    “I am afraid it is either not including the entire list of parts that should be done or the labor charge is low as its not complete.”

    So you feel that the timing belt and water pump should be replaced at this time? How much do you charge for replacing the head gasket?

    Thanks in advance.

    David

  965. David,

    The heads need to be sent out if they are warped and not if they are not warped.

    $1800.00 is a low price but with out knowing what it included may represent NO Value.

    I am leery of it just based on the list of parts that is needed to do the job correctly so it will last plus the labor is going to add up to much more than $1800.00.

    I am afraid it is either not including the entire list of parts that should be done or the labor charge is low as its not complete.

    Get written estimates, and compare the 2, and see what the differences are.

    Justin

  966. Scott,

    Thats always a fun one to try and get the mind around, here is the thing, those items should be done for a parts only type of a price and even though its early, they wont be due for another 105k, and done now at a big discount. Time is also a factor and a belt thats 7 years old has probably stretched out.

    Justin

  967. Hi Joe,

    This is pretty troubling

    “I recently took it into a local Subaru dealer for a complimentary inspection and came out with the following diagnosis: Needs front engine
    cover reseal with timing belt $985.00: Engine separator plate $1050.00: Transmission harness $850.00.”

    For $2227.00 The dealer should be quoting out a head gasket repair $1700.00 or so , timing belt $89.99, updated seperator plate repair $90.00 or so plus what ever they were trying to include in the front end reseal job (tensioner water pump etc) Even if more expensive it will represent value, there is no value in doing a front end reseal and seperator plate only to leave the head gaskets to go at a later date.

    $1050.00 for the seperator and than another $850.00 for the trans harness is real expensive in my opinion.

    We charge $580.00 for the Seperator, rear main seal and right rear wrist pin access all doe at the same time.

    Hope that helps, I am sorry but no where to send you too.

    Justin

  968. Jim,

    The typical leaks for he H6 are the oil cooler o-ring, front timing cover, I have only seen one H6 with an oil leak from the head gaskets and it was pretty minor.

    Other than the braking system I have always thought the Outback LL bean from 2002 to 2004 was a great car to own.

    Justin

  969. My ’01 Legacy Outback Sedan was just diagnosed with leaking head gaskets when I had the oil changed. The car has 87k miles and is almost 9 yrs old. So I took it to my Subaru dealer in San Rafael, CA. They confirmed the head gasket problem, called SOA headquarters, who agreed to a 100% parts and labor to install new head gaskets!! While they had the engine out they installed a timing belt ($84) and 2 drive belts ($35) which I paid for. I am ecstatic that they would warranty my 9-year old Subaru. Way to go! And it only took 3-1/2 days to fix.

  970. I have a 2003 Subaru Legacy and the headgasket failed at 40k miles. Was fixed under warranty. Now at 70K miles, it is leaking again (external leak).

  971. I just took my car into the local Subaru dealer to fix some oil leaks that they weren’t sure of origin. They decided that they should pull the engine to fix it right. I gave them the go ahead and they said it would be about 2,200 dollar job. I have a 1995 legacy and 131,000 miles on it. If it turns out not to be the head gaskets(it’s never overheated) would taking out the engine be deemed unnecessary.

  972. What a great site. I have read most of the posts and have learned a lot. But still I have questions specific to my car. We bought a 2005 Saab 92-X Aero (a saab dressed WRX )recently. It has the 2.0 liter turbo engine. I bought it out of town. Even though the car had only 46,000n miles I had a mechanic check it out. He caught a problem with a warped brake rotor. And said that the coolant was a little low but there seemed to be no leaks. He was a Saab/ Subaru mechanic but I now know that he was really a Saab mechanic as there were only Saabs in his shop and he wasn’t on the lookout for head gasket problems or maybe the miles were so low it fooled him. Unfortunately, I bought the car. The drive home was about 500 miles and I stopped for the night after driving about 360 miles. The car had driven well and didn’t overheat, but I thought that I saw something leaking from the the car, It was dark and drizzling rain so I just waited until morning to check it out. The coolant was gone from the reservoir. So I bought some coolant and filled it to the fill line. I didn’t see anything leaking. When I got to San Francisco I checked again and the coolant had dropped again. Still there had been no problem with over heating. I topped it off and arranged to have it looked at by an independent Subaru shop. They were nice and after testing said yes there was a leak in the head gasket because the hydrocarbons (in the coolant ?) were over 100. They said that I could drive the car but I shouldn’t because It could get worse, blow out the radiator, cause more damage, etc. They quoted me a price of $3500.00 which included pulling the engine, sending the head to a machine shop, and replacing the starter and timing belt. Maybe some other things (it wasn’t written down) but the idea was to repair the engine so that it would last. They also offered to do the brakes(including rotors) at cost for about $300.00. While I like their idea of thoroughness, it seems expensive and I wonder if you need to do all that to an engine with less than 50,000 miles.

    I called another Subaru mechanic and he quoted me a price of $1800.00 and the brakes (this also included the rotors) for $300.00. He seemed honest and told me that he couldn’t get to it for at least 2 maybe 3 weeks as he was really busy and rebuilding 3 cars at the moment. But he told me that I could drive the car as long as I watched to coolant level.

    After reading your advice in the above posts, I know to have the engine pulled to do the work. Does the head need to be sent to a machine shop and should the timing belt and water pump be replaced? What is a reasonable charge for replacing the head gasket. If not in dollars than in hours, since everything seems more expensive here in San Francisco.

    Thanks.

  973. Our 1998 Subaru Forester (165,000 miles) has finally been diagnosed as needing a new head gasket(s). We’ve already replaced the thermostat and ruled out the radiator. It seems like we have 3 options: 1) replace the gasket. Sounds good but we hear that once the mechanic gets the engine out we might have other problems and that some people have had reoccurring head gasket problems; 2) replace the engine with a 1998 forester engine with less than 50,000 miles. However, aren’t we at risk of inheriting a bad gasket? Or can we replace the engine with a newer model that doesn’t have this problem? Or 3) rebuild the engine which sounds like the most expensive option. We want to keep the car and are looking for a permanent solution. What makes the most sense here? Thank you!

  974. Justin,

    Thank you for your reply. SOA has agreed to pay 50% of the HG. The dealer is also recommending replacing the timing belt, external belts, water pump and oil seals. What do you say on a 7 year old Outback with 53,000 miles?

    Scott

  975. Great website. I am new to Subaru. Last year I got a 1999 Subaru Outback with 70,000 miles. It is a great riding car. The family loves it. However, I have a severe oil leak problem, especially at highway speeds. At first I thought it was due to the fact that I did not replace the crush washer with a new one when I changed the oil.

    I recently took it into a local Subaru dealer for a complimentary inspection and came out with the following diagnosis: Needs front engine
    cover reseal with timing belt $985.00: Engine separator plate $1050.00: Transmission harness $850.00.

    I can understand the timing belt issue but would like a second opinion on the other issues. I would like to go to an independent repair shop that specializes in Subaru cars. An internet search has not been much help. I live in the 60714 zip code area and short of driving to Seattle wonder if you could help me find one in my area.

    Thank you

  976. Thanks so much for your reply! We were going to look at a ’99 Legacy Outback at a local Subaru dealer but the initial asking price was such that we knew we couldn’t get him down into our price range.

    It’s funny but Subarus from 1991 to around 1995 have the highest satisfaction ratings on various sites on the internet. (The ’93 Legacy is rated 8.5 out of 10). Maybe that’s why it’s hard to find these older models.

    I’m making our mechanic aware of your website so that he can better help us with our purchase. Again, thanks for your help.

  977. Justin, lots of great info here. I have a 2003 Outback with the 3.0 6 cyl. and about 135,000 mls. It appears to have an external oil leak on the head gasket(pass side of car). I have cleaned and checked the filter and drain plug a couple times and it’s not them. Is this a common problem for this engine. I was thinking of getting a new one w/the 2.5 and giving this one to my son. Should I be concerned with expensive problems when the warranty runs out on the new one. Will the 3.0 have more issues. We already changed the CV joint that gets overheated by the exhaust(happened on the last two Outbacks).We typically put over 200,000 mls. on our cars before we get another. Thank You, Jim

  978. Hi Sharon,

    A Impreza with a 2.2l would have less chance of developing a head gasket issue as a 2.5l of the same era.

    No having said that, the 2.2l has its own set of potential challenges mostly related to the valve guides, depending on how the cylinder heads are configured (dual port vs single port)

    Any 13 year old car is going to need some work, if you buy a car you like that suits your needs, and have to put money into it here and there including head gaskets it really wont be the end of the world.

    Most likely the Impreza won’t need head gaskets until after 200k, but we do replace head gaskets on the 2.2l just no where near the pace as the 2.5l, but the older 2.2l would never meet todays engine requirements for emissions and horse power.

    Justin

  979. Kevin,

    I usually suggest doing a voltage drop test to determine if there is too much resistance in the primary circuit.

    The newer Subaru vehicles all have additional ground straps on the right side of the vehicle.

    If you have an oil leak, you should look into changing your oil change routine for starters.

    while it is still very important to maintain the battery and cables, it would be less likely to ever cause an oil leak.

    Justin

  980. Anthony,

    A failed head gasket is one possibility but also it could just be an air pocket that wasn’t removed from the cooling system properly, or a failed thermostat.

    Justin

  981. Hi Scott,

    We see less coolant leaks on the 2003 and newer than the 2000 to 2002.

    I wouldn’t really state I thought that the problem was fixed for 2003, just that we see less problems.

    At your mileage I would think there should be some help

    Justin

  982. Craig,

    You can try SOA, but since the 03 was never part of the WWP-99 campaign, and its 23k out of warranty that might be a stretch. Also is it an oil or coolant leak or a combination of both?

    The answer to that question is really important in determining if you will gain any ground with SOA, if its oil than it will be really difficult if its coolant, you have a chance of getting some participation, but only if you have great service records.

    I hope the shop only intends to re-seal the oil pump and pan and not replace them.

    The issue over the bumps could be many different things things.

    Justin

  983. Hi,
    I am somewhat paranoid about purchasing a Subaru. I know they’re great cars because I had an ’80s GL FWD coupe that was outstanding.

    I’ve been shying away from Outbacks from the years mentioned in your article. We have a very limited budget and don’t need a head gasket repair surprise.

    We are considering an automatic 1997 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport with a 2.2L engine, 150,000 miles. I am a bit worried because head gasket problems seem to have started with this engine in 1998 and that’s kind of close!

    In your opinion is a 1997 Impreza sport in the clear re: head gasket problems? Of course we would have a mechanic check it out but I just wanted to be sure that the long trip (it’s hard to find used Impreza wagons) to see it would be worthwhile.

    This site is fantastic. Thank you so much for taking the time to help Subie lovers out!

  984. Regarding the +/- battery cables, how much resistance is too much? Would the addition of extra grounding wires from the engine to the body also help to relieve the electrolysis process?

    I have an 04 Outback Wagon with 55,000 miles and I have noticed some oily residue near cylinder #4 on the back of the drivers side. I thought it may be valve cover gaskets, but after reading this article I am a little concerned.It is difficult to see that area due to the crossmember and engine mount.

    Do you have any advice as to where to proceed from here?

  985. Hi! I have a 2003 Outback with 98,500 miles. Just last week I had my radiator replaced. I had been smelling a slight coolant smell for about two weeks and one day the temp gauge just pinned in the red. I quickly brought it to my mechanic and he said the radiator was blown. Five days after that repair I noticed I had little or no heat in the car. On the 6th day which was today I was driving for about 20 minutes and noticed a loss of heat and the temp gauge was pinned all the way. I quickly pulled over and had my car towed back to my mechanic. He said I was a little low on coolant which he added and that my heat was normal again. He is keeping the car overnight to check engine compression. Does this sound like a possible head gasket problem to you? Thanks!

  986. Hi Justin-
    Great site. I have a March 2003 Outback 2.5L with 53,000 miles. Dealer confirmed this morning external coolant leak from both heads. I changed anti-feeze and used conditioner at 25,000 and 50,000. Waiting for Subaru Corporate to call me for determining coverage. I thought the March 2003 year Outback gaskets were “fixed”???

  987. Reading all these replies has been very helpful. I have two questions about my car. I have a 2003 Subaru Outback with 82,000 miles and was told that the head gaskets were leaking. They said if I was to do this repair they would remove the engine and also replace the oil pump, oil pan as they are also leaking, the water pump and the timing belt. But the cost is $3000!! What would you recommend? Should I be contacting S.O.A?? Also, I am now having an issue that every time I go over a bump the steering wheel “bounces/shimmies” Any thoughts on what this might be?

    Thanks Craig

  988. Hey Rick,

    Really you need to get under the car, remove the plastic splash pan, and have a look at the underside of the car to look for external leaks, from there while it is less common the 2nd generation 2.5l can develop an internal head gasket leak and the early signs of failure are an oily residue and or an exhaust odor in the coolant overflow bottle.

    Its a gasket leak and just like all of the gaskets in an engine, at some point they will most likely leak.

    Justin

  989. Hi – Excellent site! I’m looking at purchasing an 03 Outback w/ 103,000 miles. Carfax says it’s been very well maintained by a dealer since new. Same dealer has just replaced driving belts and CV boots. It’s at a location where I can’t get my mechanic to look at it. What exactly should I be looking for regading the gasket and what questions should I ask the dealer? I’m not a car expert, so how easy will it be for me to see if something is leaking? Is it just a fact that the gasket’s will need to replaced someday? It’s beyond warranty of course. It’s a big purchase so I want to make a good choice. Thanks in advance!

  990. Nathan,

    It could be a great many things, valve, injector, piston rings.

    It needs to be diagnosed, a compression and leak down test to start out with before you waste any more time and money replacing parts.

    Justin

  991. Justin,
    I have a 2004 Subaru outback with 84,700 miles, I noticed it was leaking anti-freeze so I took it in had the hoses and thermostat replaced, anti-freeze was about a year old. I noticed that it smelled like anti-freeze returned to mechanic he told me that my head gasket was seeping he put some sort of sealant in it. So far every thing is holding, but can these sealants cause other problems? I don’t belive this is a permament fix I check my fluids daily, I have all the recommended maintenance done.

  992. hi there. let me say this the greatest thing i’ve seen on this HG issue (and in the past 3 days i’ve prolly looked at a million sites).
    my 97 outback never once went up over the just-halfway mark on the temp gauge. then this past friday, the coldest day of the year so far (around 12 degrees) it strted creeping up and there was coolant spraying out of the reservoir. and foaming and bubbles too. against my better judgement i put in some of that K Seal stuff and changed the thermostat. neither really did anything except now the temp gauge stays where it should for maybe 20 mins of driving, then upon idling it starts creeping up again. i have never noticed an oil leak from either side. could this be an internal HGF and is there any way to tell me if its just started and possibly not wrecked the heads? is an internal or external leak prefferable / ie less damaging? i am about to bring the car to have the HG done.
    anyway, thanks for your great info service!!!!!!!!!!!!

  993. Justin,

    I just discovered your web site – lots of great info!

    I bought a used 1999 2.5L Outback a few years ago, which immediately needed a head gasket replacement. Luckily, it was still under the 30 day dealer warranty.

    This year, I noticed some corrosion building up on the battery’s positive terminal, and also on the clamp that holds the battery to it’s mounting tray. I also see some staining on the hood liner (think it was that way when I bought it, but not sure).

    I cleaned the positive terminal and smeared it with dielectric grease, and that still seems OK now.

    But it looks like I’m still getting corrosion under the clamp, where it touches the plastic top of the battery. One of my co-worker’s thinks this may be a grounding problem.

    Can you give me some quick advice on diagnosing this problem?

    I have a fairly good digital multimeter, but don’t know what voltages and/or resistances to expect, or where to make the readings.

    Thanks in advance,

    -Tom

  994. Hi Nick,

    That’s hard to comment on. One shop may charge less and take the engine out to make the repairs as they are a good shop and want to make the repairs correctly. The next shop may not care, be uniformed or just flat out don’t understand or care as to why it shouldn’t be done that way.

    A shop that doesn’t want to take the engine out to make the repairs may charge more to take the engine out to make repairs but I have no idea how much more, more is. We would never charge more to take the engine out as its included in the price we quote, nor would we ever repair head gaskets in the car.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that even though it’s difficult, I would keep doing research until you find the right shop in your part of town.

    If I had to guess I would say $200.00 or so, but that’s just a guess.

    Thanks for the feedback on the website, comments like yours and others are what keep me posting.

    Justin

  995. Hi Donna,

    A couple of things to consider. Since it’s leaking coolant, I would look at your maintenance records to see how many times the coolant has been changed. I suggest every 2 years on cars that are not driven 15k a year anyways as the cars that sit or are used mostly for short trips are the ones that have the most problems.

    If the vehicle still has the O.E. Battery that also may have expedited the leak.

    I am in no way trying to suggest that a head gasket leak at 55k is normal on a 2003 model, we still mostly see oil leaks at that mileage. But it does point to one of the reasons we sought out a different head gasket other that the one offered by Subaru.

    I would think you should get some participation from Subaru if you have good records.

    Justin

  996. Sean,

    My advice is to stop driving the car and have it fixed, if you let a Subaru engine run hot or overheat multiple times you will damage it adding significantly to the repair costs.

    Justin

  997. Tim,

    The spark plug tube seals are leaking.

    There is just no way I can tell you if its easy or difficult for you, there are no real special tools, but skill is required as is the proper know how to guarantee a long lasting repair.

    Justin

  998. Melinda,

    I know you aren’t going to like all I have to say. I sometimes struggle with the best way to advise on certain situations as I want to help, but at the same time I worry about coming off mean or rude, but here it is.

    That’s not a lemon by definition in any state, if it had needed all of those things in the first year of ownership that would be a lemon, anytime a component meets the warranty requirements (3 years 36k on the ball joints and 5 years 60k on the CV boots and head gasket) that is to the industry acceptable. Most of what you have described is pretty typical, except I am not sure about the ball joint thing that would be an unusual repair, was this done by a Subaru shop? Or just Joe’s Garage?, the CV boots on ANY car last approximately 100k or so, some less some longer, how the car is used and the climate have a big say in how long the rubber boot lasts.

    I know some how there is a perception that that newer cars don’t need repairs, but it’s just a perception. The newer the car the more it will need after its 5 years old. We are now dealing with 2005 and newer models with a multitude of failing emissions control devices that didn’t even exist 1 year earlier.

    It would be unusual to need any other major repairs other than the head gasket on a Subaru. The CV boots are a normal wear and tear thing like brakes, and should have not cost more than $220.00 a side to reboot an axle (there are 2 in the front) the ball joints should have cost less than $150.00 a side (there are 2 in the front) I hope no one replaced the axle with one made in China?

    Once a car is 5 years old you should expect to average $1500.00 a year in car maintenance and repairs, this is still much less than 6,000.00 a year in car payments. And just about when the car payments end the repairs begin. One year its brakes, the next year tires and a service, Or a major repair.

    I have a total of $2820.00, and while I realize there is no pleasure in putting money into a car, I have to tell you it’s often necessary, you can drive yourself crazy in frustration and resistance to this but it’s just something that happens. I know it’s frustrating, but once the repairs are made and a couple of months go by I am sure you will feel better about it.

    Justin

  999. Justin, first off just want to thank you so much for sharing your extensive knowledge with people who would otherwise have a hard time obtaining this information… it is greatly appreciated… my question refers to repair technique and quality. Youve said that the only ‘right way’ is to remove the engine to ensure a good HG job and that the ‘in car’ method leaves a lot to be desired… In your experience how does the price vary between ‘in car repair’ and ‘engine stand repair’?? I understand the benefit of getting the job done properly the first time, but unfortunately I am in rural northwestern Maine, where there arent very many options for repair and I am now weiry of going to a dealership. I just dont want to get ripped off when I inquire about their methods and ask for an engine removal for repair… I wish I was in Seattle (for many reasons =) but I would definately come to AWD Auto regardless… Thanks again, this single page alone and your descriptions helped me to catch the problem early and for certain without needing to troubleshoot… take care -N

  1000. I have a 2003 Subaru Forester with only 55,000 miles and my head gasket is leaking coolant. Subaru won’t cover under the 60,000 mile warranty since it’s over 5 years old. Even though Subaru recommends oil changes every 6-7,000 miles I have had mine changed every 3,000 miles to take extra good care of my engine. Subaru told me to take it to a dealer to confirm the problem and they will review the situation to see if they are willing to cover part of the repair. I have since determined per this website and many others that leaky head gaskets are a known problem for subarus but subaru only recalled the 1999-2002 models. Clearly, the problem was not corrected in the 2003 models. 55,000 is extremely low mileage and this problem should not have occurred. I am going to push hard with Subaru as I feel they should have disclosed this known defect when I purchased the car. Appreciate any advice when dealing with them. This is a shame as I have really loved this car, but if Subaru doesn’t cover or significantly pitch in with the repair, it will be the last Subaru I ever own.

  1001. Hi there. I have a 2001 Legacy GT wagon which has done 106,00 km’s.
    I recently had to replace my radiator, but it was left sitting in the shed over Christmas.
    I got it back on the road last week but it is running a lot hotter than it should be – (spikes to 80% of redline after a 6km trip). I have only used water to top up the coolant system. If flushing and replenishing the coolant system does nothing, what would you advise me to do? Thanks

  1002. i change oil every 4k. noticed a miss when pulling away.thought to check oil and found very little on dipstik.had oil changed but miss still there,thought i burned a valve,so replaced plugs. this is where i found the oil all around plug leads.is this a common repair. an easy or difficult repair with the right tools 2000 legacy 2.5 237,000kms

  1003. Kevin,

    No idea about a 1997 2.0l as that didn’t exist in the U.S. Subaru in terms of production cars for import into the U.S. Market has only made what is called a semi closed deck; you will see some portions of aluminum in between the cylinder liners and the block. Where on an open deck there will be none, but to see this it has to come apart. Every engine has a stamped number, you can obtain the number and call a Subaru dealer and inquire I guess, you may not get a very warm response though.

    Justin

  1004. Dotty,

    We service a lot of Subaru’s from Canada. Usually we have had customers stay at a local hotel and enjoy some of the Seattle area attractions for a couple of days.

    Justin

  1005. Megan,

    I usually suggest a Subaru shop make the repairs, but it’s also important to establish a relationship with your shop, go to the same shop for everything. My advice is choose the shop you are the most comfortable taking the car back to for the rest of the cars life. Follow up service after a major repair is just as important as the repair it self.

    Justin

  1006. Great site Justin.

    I tried to read all the posts, but got lost in the middle somewhere. I have a 96 outback that has a blown gasket. At the time that it happened, we parked the car (with 240k+ miles) and has been sitting for 6 years. I am now going to fix it with my daughter (no auto shop anymore in high school)and teach her a bit about cars.
    I just have a few things that I need some guidance on. First, is it a good idea to replace both HG’s? Second, with 240k+ mi, how far should I go into the engine replacing seals/bearings/gaskets? I am trying to avoid a full rebuild for a lesson that I am going to commit more to than her.
    Also if you have any other pointers that I should look for in a project like this would be appreciated.

    Thanks again,
    Mark

  1007. I have a 2005 subaru forester and wonder if I got a lemon. I have had the front ball joints replaces, the left front axel & boot and am now told that my head gasket is leaking oil and has to be replaced – for $2300 which includes belts. With 94K miles on the thing I am wondering if it is worth it and what else might be in store for me this year.

    Melinda

  1008. hi.do you have any idea how to tell if ej20 block is a open deck or semi close or close deck without pulling apart the heads??my 1997 s/tb forester had oil in the water system.mechanic had a look and said the block was crack some where.im looking for another block so was wondering if you mite know how to tell the difference between blocks.thanks..

  1009. Just found out today that my 2005 Subaru Impreza RS needs the headgaskets replaced. I bought it used 3 months ago so I’m in the process of finding out when the warranty will expire (or has expired). But since this is now a 3rd hand vehicle, and I cannot prove that it has been properly serviced during its lifespan, there is the chance that Subaru will not honour the warranty. Would you be willing to repair a vehicle from Canada (I am within driving distance from you)?

  1010. Hi Justin,

    Your website has been incredibly informative; thank you so much. I have just one question for you, and just a bit of background info.! I have a 2003 Outback with 108 000 miles and bought it used at 80 000. I had some major work done immediately (timing belt etc) and the mechanic told me that there was a oil leak from the driver’s side head gasket but it was minor, external with no signs of an internal leak, and nothing to worry about immediately. Of course at the time I did not know anything about the Subaru head gasket issue. The car has been running wonderfully since then (purchased in 2006). About a week ago I noticed an antifreeze smell in the cabin and took it in to a different garage to get it checked out. This mechanic confirmed an external coolant leak by pressurizing the system, and said that the driver’s side head gasket is leaking from the rear section. He said it was still ok to drive if I keep an eye on the level of the coolant and the temperature gauge. Of course I want to get this fixed before something does go very wrong and causes a more major problem. I’ve been quoted prices from $750 to $2800 from independent garages, and the dealerships’ quotes have fallen in between at $1400-$1800. My neighbour knows a mechanic whom he has trusted for years with his Subaru but he has only done a few head gasket repairs on Subbys. He quoted me $2000 assuming that the cylinder heads would need machining. Another mechanic who is more experienced with Subaru quoted $2400-$2800. The car has never overheated so I’m hoping that the machining part won’t be necessary. Both of these mechanics use machinists who are associated with the local Subaru dealership and deal with these parts all the time. So – here is my question: For this repair, is it necessary to find a Subaru specialist or can I rely on my neighbour’s recommendation of his well-trusted, experienced mechanic who has only dealt with a few of these repairs on a Subaru?
    Many, many thanks!
    Megan

  1011. Will,

    Any used engine would need to have the head gaskets, timing belt, etc. replaced. This is really the best way to go, we never just install a used engine, its always going to get new seals gaskets water pump and timing components.

    It will be all need to be done shortly after putting the used engine in.

    There is no test any wrecking yard can do to test for internal head gasket failure at operating temperature under the same conditions faced while driving.

    Justin

  1012. Jonathan,

    Think of it this way, you buy the car for $2500.00, have some repairs made that carry a warranty, not the whole car mind you, but the repairs you pay for

    It would be hard to find any car under $5000.00 with a partial warranty.

    Justin

  1013. Hi Justin,

    Thanks so much for your advice. I think I going to find a junkyard engine and do a swap. It looks like they can be had for about $1000 with around 80,000 miles. Would you recommend doing head gaskets, water pump, and timing belt before I put it in? The junkyard says the engines are tested, but I’m guessing that doesn’t mean very much. Also, what kind of transmission fluid and additive were you referring to about the torque binding problem. I really appreciate your advice and love your site.

    thanks again
    Will

  1014. Hi, I just found this website while looking at a car to buy. There is a 2001 Outback Wagon for sale that the owner admits needs a head gasket replaced. Otherwise, the vehicle is in great shape. I could probably get it for $2500. as is. Is this a decent deal or worth the trouble given that I WILL have to do the repair? Thanks

  1015. Peter,

    Your situation is a prime example of why repairs made in the car at the dealer will just never last.

    I assume that you are out of warranty unless you have an extended warranty?

    Here is my advice, if you are under some sort of warranty have it done there, if not seek out an independent Subaru Specialist in your part of town, and let then fix the car.

    If the dealer makes the repairs, try to get them to take the engine out to make the repairs, even if they charge you some additional labor.

    From there, the time the repairs should last will vary, based on how well the repairs were made, how well the car has been maintained after the fact.

    I still service one of the first Subaru’s I ever put head gaskets in as a business owner, the car had 112,000 when I replaced the head gaskets (at my House no less while I was getting off the ground) the Subaru Outback now has 323,000 and counting, and we recently replaced the seats as the springs had broken on the drivers side seat from age and was extremely uncomfortable.

    I am very proud of the repairs my shop makes and having good long standing relationships with our customers.

    If you are going to pay for the repairs, you deserve the same experience. There are lots of good shops out there that take pride in what they do, I would seek out a shop with a good reputation in the event the cost of the repairs are up to you.

    I hope this helps

    Justin

  1016. hi,

    i have a 2005 outback and needed to get the head gasket replaced at aourn 46k miles. it is now at 78k miles and the same dealership is telling me that the head gaskets are leaking again.

    how probable is that? what sort of mileage should i expect from dealer replaced head gaskets?

    thanks,

    -peter

  1017. Hey Will,

    I remember answering the question; I am not sure why it didn’t post.
    Without a clear diagnosis as to why there is a cylinder misfire, I hesitate to say yes fix it. That needs to be addressed first, unless the diagnosis is the misfire is from the head gaskets?

    The torque binding, if there is no Flashing AT TEMP light on start up, it can be corrected or improved with a flush and additive. If the light is flashing it could run from $500.00 to $1000.00 to repair, and should be part of your plan if you fix the head gaskets. It will not work forever in FWD mode.

    For $2000.00 you’re not going to buy much of a car for your Son, the value of the car VS the cost to repair don’t have anything to do with each other in terms of the Worth to repair.

    Here is where I am at a lost though, if there IS coolant in the oil, it’s most likely more severe than a head gasket. When the head gasket goes it does not cause coolant to push into the engines crankcase.

    I guess what I am saying is that there may be more than just a head gasket issue, but having not seen the car , and only going by the information you can provide me that may be inaccurate. We have put Subaru reman engines to the tune of $4500.00 in plenty of Outbacks with that mileage. You still won’t buy much car for $4500.00. Or a good used one from the wrecking yard, with all new seals and gaskets would be less.

    There are always options, if you still think the car suits your needs, I would encourage you to make repairs, if not than this is the time to move on.

    It will always cost less to repair what you have, than buy another used car that will need work, or a new car that doesn’t for a few years.

    Justin

  1018. Hi Justin,

    I think you might have accidentally skipped my post above (Jan 7, 2010). I’d really appreciate some advice as my son is asking me every day what we’re going to do with his car. The information on your site is a tremendous help. Thanks!

    Will

  1019. Hi Annie,

    Its hard to say, the conditioner may slow down the leak for anywhere from a few weeks to a few years, its really about how significant was the leak prior to the conditioner going in.

    I would know, in the back of your mind it needs to be done at some time, use it local until its repaired, avoid prolonged freeway driving or pushing the car hard up hills and it should be ok for awhile.

    Thanks for the feedback on our site!

    Justin

  1020. Hi Tierry,

    Its tough to advise you here, Its fairly straight forward to diagnose the cooling system, but its a process, that involves real understanding of how the system works, doing a compression test isn’t going to help, that was a test for the engines of the 60’s 70’s and 80’s.

    Its really not possible for a 1996 and newer vehicle to have a compression problem and not have a flashing check engine light. Rater than look for CO2, in the cooling system you need to be looking for Hydrocarbons in PPMs(Parts Per Million)the reason for this is hydrocarbons are the easiest to analyze for.

    Lastly, the car overheats after it first reaches normal operating temperature and than something happens that the mechanical portion of the cooling system or the computer controlled part of the cooling system cant make up for causing an overheating situation.

    Unless you test under these circumstances you wont find your problem.

    Yes there is a bleed procedure and you need to purchase a coolant fill funnel to complete it.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

  1021. Anna,

    I know you looking for help, the best help I can give you is to tell you to seek out someone local who knows Subaru, if the coolant is milky/ creamy either the engine has some pretty serious issues, or if it has an automatic transmission maybe the cooler in the radiator is allowing transmission fluid into the cooling system, that would be rare but a possibility.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  1022. Cameron,

    I still have not seen a 2005 model leak coolant from the left side head gasket like the older models did, We have repaired some oil leaks on a few 05 and newer.

    No where near the same rate of failure at this time as the 2000 to 2004 models were.

    Justin

  1023. Justin,

    We just purchased a 2000 Legacy as a third car for our kids to drive. It was owned by a 90+ year-old woman who recently died. The car only has 41,000 miles on it.

    I took it to our mechanic today to have him do an inspection. He said the battery was shot (it was corroded like in the pictures you posted) and he noticed that the left side of the engine had a leak — i.e. a head gasket leak. He didn’t suggest replacing anything yet. He’s flushing the coolant and adding the conditioner (as you suggested) and has suggested for now that we just keep an eye on the coolant, and change the oil regularly. If we do everything right, how long do you think it will be before we’ll be needing to replace the head gaskets?

    Thanks for this post — it was so educational!!

  1024. HI, I have a 1996 Legacy with the 2.2L engine and i have an overheating problem but the engine come from a scrapyard and the warranty finish in about a month so I want to be sure that the engine is okay. The engine is overheating but its intermittent and don’t have any heating in the car.I change the thermostat and bleed it but it still overheating.I put air into the cylinder and there is no bubbles, the compression is good (210)on every cylinders. The radiator fan is working. I just did the CO2 test and there’s no C02 in the coolant. So I really don’t know what’s my problem, is it possible that the problem is the heads or head gaskets ?? Is there any special procedure to bleed the coolant system ??

    thanks for your support!

  1025. Justin,
    Wow! A very detailed web page and a useful resource. We are just dealing with a head gasket issue on our 2006 Outback at 57,500 dealer-serviced miles. Fortunately we are still under warranty. Thanks again for all your effort in putting this information online.
    Jim

  1026. Hello Justin,

    I contacted you because I am really desperate. I am French and i am living in New Zealand. I bought a car( subary legacy brighton gold 1994) recently to a bad person (i guess) because the same day i bought it, i had a big problem with the car. First of all, there was a hole in the hose between the radiator and the engine so we replaced it. The coolant was very creamy we clean the radiator first and we brought it to the mechanic.
    The mechanic said that it was a headgasket problem and ask for 1968 nz dollars so about 1000 euros. (What do you think about that price?). Then he gaves us back the car telling us that it need to be flushed another time before travelling. then we went in holidays and after two days, the car was overheating and the coolant was even more creamy that it was the first time.It We could even drive for more than 5 min. (Actually, in the country side, you going up and down on the hills all the time and it used to overheat when we were going up and down to the hills all the time). So, we flushed it again. Until this moment, the oil was clear and the level of oil did move clearly. Then, we drove again for two days.A morning, we realized there was no oil and the coolant was creamy again. So, we called the mechanic to pick up the car and leave the car to him for several days. He left me a message today telling me that the engine needed to be changed.
    What do you think about all that ?
    Thanks you very much for your help. I really need you reply.
    Hope i was clear enough ( my english is not very good but i hope you understood me.
    many thanks for your help and advice.
    Anna

  1027. Hi there. I’m considering purchasing an ’05 legacy…Do you know if the head gasket problems exist on these newer models? I previously owned a 2000 legacy which required a head gasket replacement.

  1028. Hi Justin,
    First off, I love my 99 Subaru Legacy GT but it is completely paralyzed right now. Over the weekend, I went over to Ephrata, WA (mole into a mountain issue I had to deal with) and on the way back to Seattle, WA, by the Grace of God just decided to get off for Wendy’s in Ellensburg, WA. Just few minutes before getting off, I noticed that my heater wasn’t working and Ellensburg, WA is quite chilly. Well, right at the exit, this is where my engine died. Thankfully a good samaritan decided to stop and pull me over to Les Schwab tires. An employee there who happens to be a Subie junkie shared with me his assessment–that it seems the head gasket died and from there, the engine went dead…sigh. I don’t want to sell the car(he wants to buy it); what is the going rate for fixing this? I am sure it varies; if you can give me the various scenarios, much would be appreciated.
    Thank you!
    Deborah

  1029. Justin,

    My first mechanic – the one who performed the diagnosis showed me nothing.

    The second opinion I got was at a place where they took me under the car and showed me what they were looking for as they worked. It looked fine according to the second guy and from what he showed me, I’d have to agree.

    Thank you for your reply.

  1030. Jake,

    Thats too bad. One of the things we encourage our local customers to do is come out in the shop and have a look for themselves especially if we have a head gasket issue. That way you have an idea of what is going on with your car. I know this is very unpopular with many shops but I have always felt it makes the most sense for everybody and we are always happy to do that. Shops that have nothing to hide should invite you to have a look, its not uncommon for us to bring a vehicle back in when the customer gets off work to go over the results of our inspection so you have an idea of the condition of your car and can see it for your self.

    Find that type of a situation in your part of town, build a trusting relation ship with that shop like you would with any other professional such as a Dentist, Doctor or Vet and I know your experience will be better.

    Justin

  1031. Scoot,

    There are so many possibilities ranging from an electrical connector issue (loose after head gaskets)? Or a front air fuel sensor issue. I could go on for a while, I would lean towards a front Air/Fuel sensor but it’s probably best to seek out a Subaru Shop in your part of town.

    Justin

  1032. Hey Phil,

    I havent ever sen an oil pan do that, but in my part of the world we just don’t have much rust or external metal corrosion issues as they have really only started recently treating roads with chemicals here, and we don’t get enough weather to treat the roads very often.

    Any thing is possible in terms of rust though, it would really be an odd spot I might add.

    Justin

  1033. Hello Wayne,

    You can ask other Subaru Owners where they take there Subie, and maybe look at Car talks website under Mechanic files for the best rated shops.

    A headgasket leaking externally and the radiator are 2 separate issues, you may need both.

    Justin

  1034. Heather,

    Wow thats awful, I am assuming by this point it has been looked at? It may just be low coolant level and a leaking Radiator, that is common on a 2002 Forester with 150k.

    If it is another head gasket, its the result of a hurried repair done in the car, and is why I am so against the repairs made in the car. Done under Warranty thats how they are done and most Subaru Dealers, and worse done that way when you are paying for them.

    As far as what to do from here, its really time to find a independent Subaru shop near you.

    I wouldn’t let another dealer make the same 30k repair, if that is what is wrong.

    Sorry you have had the recent trouble.

    Justin

  1035. Hello Andrew,

    Great name (I chose it for my son)

    Any ways, head gaskets do fail on the 2.2l just at a much lower rate and at higher miles than the 2.5l.

    Realistically its a straight forward repair for a pro.

    The oil light coming on is not good and most likely due to low oil level, you need to know how long it has been since the last oil change, and figure out from there if its using oil. There is no oil temperature gauge only a coolant temperature gauge and if its going into the read the car is overheating.

    I have no way of knowing the extent of your cars problem, but I need to point out it doesn’t sound to me like its getting the proper maintenance right now, and making major repairs to cars that have had poor maintenance can sometimes be a recipe for disaster.

    Whether its repair this car or buy another one, I would encourage you to spend a little more effort in never letting the oil light come on due to low oil levels if that is what has happened.

    Checking your oil and coolant is something you must take upon your self every other tank of fuel once a car is over 5 years old on average and is a good idea anyways on any car you own.

    Justin

  1036. To All,

    I am overwhelmed right now with the amount of questions coming in right now, I am committed to, as always answering everyone, but I do have to ask for everyones patience.

    Sincerely

    Justin

  1037. Hi Justin,

    I have a 1997 outback 2.5l with a blown head gasket. The good news is that the car made it to 208,000 miles on the original gaskets so I feel like I’ve been luckier than most. My question is whether it is worth replacing the gaskets on a car with this many miles. My teenage son drives the car so I can’t be sure how much the car was driven in an overheated state. It has definitely consumed some oil since the head gaskets started acting up and there is some evidence of coolant in the oil. It is also running very rough now and is has a cylinder 3 misfire code. The local dealer said that new gaskets will cost about $2000 including timing belt and water pump but they haven’t inspected the car yet so I’m worried they’ll find other problems once they get inside. Other than the head gaskets, the only problem I’m aware of is the center differential. It’s been binding up during turns so I put in the FWD fuse and it now works fine; although no longer an all wheel drive car. Do you think it’s worth trying to salvage this or is it a lost cause. Thanks for the help.

    Will

  1038. Justin, disregard my question. My original diagnosis was done by a dishonest mechanic. My car is fine.

    Thank you for maintaining this site. I’ll be here from now on.

  1039. I have a ’02 outback, just had the head gasket replaced for the 2nd time. After a few weeks when temp outside started to get cold & moisture in the area, the car started to backfire, buck & at times would lose power. It then would run smooth above 60mph, but usually would lose power when pulling out from a stop. I have had plug wires, plugs, coil pack & fuel filter replaced. Not sure what else to do??

  1040. Oh, I should add I have never changed coolant, as yet, but after reading your blog, am tempted to now…

  1041. As with everyone else who has found this site – Awesome Blog, full of great information.

    I’m curious if you have heard/seen many leaking oil pans – mine appears to have rotted out in the front end fore of the plug – oil all over the floor and visually leaking from the middle of pan (not an edge) – seems like corrosion – definitely not gasket leaking (and , no I have never hit anything)- just curious.

    Car info: 2003 Impreza with 225K km – oil changes each 6-8K with Mobil1 synthetics – great car no issues until now with exception of a water pump at 180K.

    Phil

  1042. Justin, I saw your post to Erick regarding coolant in oil. I believe have this situation at 89k. When I started smelling antifreeze and saw steam from radiator, I checked oil. Crankcase was overfull and very dirty even though I recently changed oil and know the level was correct. Dealer says I have blown HG leaking externally. Temp guage never moved to high although radiator under great pressure and steaming from seams. Coolant reservoire did not show low. Is cracked block andor warped heads a possiblity? How to find good independent repair person in KC?

  1043. Justin,

    Thank you for maintaining this repository of information. This page has taught me a fair amount about a problem with my 2003 Subaru Legacy – the infamous head gasket leak. Yesterday, I took my car in for an oil change at a local mechanic and upon getting my car back, I was told that a small oil leak had developed around the left head gasket. This mechanic recommended that I fix this ASAP and quoted me 2500 – 2800. They explained it to me simply – -the engine needs to be removed and the gaskets replaced. This being labor intensive resulted in such a high price.

    This morning, I called the dealer and they told me that I needed a new engine block and that it would cost 3000. This sounds like much more work than simply replacing the head gaskets and makes me wary to get them to do the work.

    I am also going out tomorrow to get a second opinion before committing to anything.

    What do you think would be best?

    Thank you for your help.

  1044. hi Justin,

    Your site has been really helpful. I have a 2002 forester that keeps having problems. I replaced the head gaskets in March 2008 at the subaru dealer. i believe I had about 110,000 miles on it at the time. They were not blown but they were leaking. I didn’t at the time know about the problems that the hg had.

    Recently I took my car in for some other repairs to the subaru dealer. I told them that the car was smelling like something was burning. They said it was left over oil from the repair and power washed where the heat sheild was. I told them I saw it was smoking and took it in (assuming something was leaking). They said they didn’t see anything.

    Well now at 148k driving up a hill my temperature gage spiked and I believe i have another blown head gasket. Why would this happen again? I take good care of the car. Should I buy a new one at this point? Or have the hg replaced again? Last question, they would have replaced the hg with the newer ones right?

    The dealer this time says that the hg are not under warranty because it has been over 12 months. He says it must have been another issue that the head gaskets blew that the dealership didn’t catch.

    Do you have any advice for me? Thank you for your time.

  1045. I am currently looking at fixing a 1996 Subaru legacy with the 2.2 liter engine. It would appear that all the signs are pointing towards a blown head gasket. There is an oil substance in the overflow reservoir and the cylinder closest to the battery like you sad. It also smells/ appears that the oil that is leaking burns around that general area. The oil light comes on after only a few minutes off run time and the oil temp is past hot as well. What all should i look at having replaced? If i am going to deal with the head gasket and cylinder gasket or is it one piece or a few im curious please help me!!!
    Thank you very much I read the beginning and it was very interesting and helpful me please get back to me as soon as it is convenient for you.I am looking to move forward on this as soon as possible.. Andrew

  1046. Pam,

    It would be helpful to know what code or codes were set in correlation to the check engine light. It wouldn’t do any good to replace any of the parts your guy did if it had an evaporative emissions code in terms of addressing the check engine light.

    A check engine light will almost never come on because it needs spark plugs, oil, coolant and transmission fluid.

    I am not trying to say your Subaru doesn’t need those things, as it does every 30k. I am just pointing out its the wrong direction to go when trying to address a check engine light most of the time.

    If you want to post the code numbers I can try and give you a couple of possibilities, but even then, with out a real analysis its just a educated guess on my part.

    Justin

  1047. Hey Steve,

    Thats a problem we are all to aware of. What needs to happen and really should of probably happened while it was still under warranty was a cylinder leakage test to determine where the oil is going mechanically. I would suspect rings.

    As far as why after 600 miles there are quite a few contributing factors such as oil dilution and breakdown. This would be a good time to consider having an oil analysis done of the oil pre and post 600 miles to see what has changed with the oil.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  1048. Mike,

    I am a broken record here, but anyone who uses a cooling system pressure test as the sole means of determining head gasket failure needs to get in a different line of work.

    A cooling system pressure test is typically done with the engine off, and typically after it has cooled down.

    Head gasket failure is increased with engine temperature and cylinder head, head gasket and engine block expansion from heat and the pressure of multiple cylinders having a violent explosions at any where from 1000 rpms to 6000 rpms, those conditions just cant be duplicated with a cooling system pressure tester, or any other means of testing that doesn’t try to duplicate real world driving conditions.

    A blown head gasket doesn’t equal low engine oil level, and may not start out overheating, the coolant has to be going somewhere. I really have no way of knowing if your head gaskets are blown and I am just trying to point out how silly it is to have a car go through coolant with no leaks detected by a professional shop.

    It would be like looking for small plumbing leak in your house by first turning of the water and then not seeing one.

    The head gasket may be able to hold back 13 to 15lbs of cooling system pressure when cool, but not able to hold back 180lbs of cylinder pressure, then an explosion, and than 500 degrees and greater of temperature followed by expansion.

    I would ask why didn’t the dealer “test” the radiator cap, it should have been real obvious to determine if it is leaking, its hard for the coolant residue to hide.

    I hope this helps you understand what really needs to be done to test the car.

    Justin

  1049. Maxwell,

    The only thing you can really do, is seek out a car with good records, have that car inspected by Someone who is not the dealer selling the car, preferably a Independent Subaru Expert and from there keep up the good maintenance with respect to how you drive the car and climate in which you live.

    Justin

  1050. Mike,

    You have to take the Consumer reports thing with a grain of salt. There is not much difference in a 2003 and 2004 2.5l short of the Forester and Baja Turbo models. To have a 2003 listed and an 2004 not is proof that the information provided by consumer reports is very flawed and only as good as the source. Why Consumer reports doesn’t take even 5 minutes to realize a 2003 and 2004 Outback are just about the exact same car and add that to there report has always bothered me, I could go on Forever about how one year Subaru has high marks for brakes, and another low marks even when they have the exact same parts in them.

    I guess what I am saying is that if in 2004 Subaru gets higher marks than in 2003 or 2005 on parts of the same part number, there needs to be some sort of understanding of that, I am one for research, and cars are a big decision.

    I just wish there was a better understanding by ratings agency’s.

    The only knock on the 2.5l is the Headgasket. Fix the leaks and the engine is good for 300k.

    Justin

  1051. Justin,
    I have a 2006 Subaru Forester 2.5 lit 4 cyl 4 spd auto trans. Received a recall from subaru for the fuel tank one-way fuel value, which I took into the dealership on 12/1/2009 for the recall. After the change, I filled the tank up with gas. Never had any problems with the vehicle. Last week my check engine light came on with the flashing cruise light. Took into a trustworthy mechanic in town, he changed the oil, replaced 4 spark plugs with ignition wires, flush coolant system and transmission fluid plus reset the ecm. Drove the car today, check engine light came on again after 32 miles. Any suggestions? The car has 68,000 miles on it. Thanks

  1052. Justin,

    My question has to do with oil consumption. I bought my 96 Outback new. Its 2.5 engine has been consuming oil since new. It’s got 126,000 miles now and has been consuming, on average, 1 Qt every 1000 miles. No external oil leaks. No oil in cooling system. No coolant loss. PCV valve has been regularly replaced or inspected. The odd thing is that it does not consume any measurable amount of oil in the first 600 miles after each oil change. After about 600 miles, oil consumption sets in till next time oil is changed. Then the cycle repeats itself. I do all oil changes myself. I change every 2500 – 3000 miles, using Castrol GTX, mostly 10W30. I’ve also used 10W40, 5W30, 20W50 but noticed no difference in the amount of oil consumed. The engine is fine otherwise. No HG issue. What’s your opinion on the cause of this oil consumption? Why only after 600 or so miles after oil change? It’s been doing so for many years. Thanks.

  1053. 2004 2.5 non turbo engine forester with 44,000 miles. Both heads gaskets have to be replaced. Keeped all service work done on car which is oil changes and tire rotations. Major 30,000 was done at dealer, after that had a smell of anti-freeze. Noticed on service bill no conditioner was put in with anti-freeze. Called Subaru and got a case number. Having case number and working with dealer and a lot of knowledge from this site I was able to get the $1700 work done for free. So anybody else you need to be firm and stick to your guns.

  1054. I have an Subaru Legacy 2.5 gx (Eu model) 2001 model.

    Lately i´ve been loosing coolant if i fill it up to full a couple of days later it is down on low, we have very cold weather now where i live around 77 Fahrenheit, took the car to my Subaru dealer who pressure test the coolant system for leaks they didn’t find anything and didn’t announce when i picked up the car that is was some problem with the car, told me first that this i normal when its so cold right now, then they told my to try to buy a new radiator cap they had some Subarus who was loosing coolant where the cap was leaking.

    Anyone think that i got the HG problem the car has never overheating and uses no oil when i checked the oil every week.

  1055. hey, a quick question on parts would the head gaskets from a 98 outback 2.5 double cam interchange with the head gaskets from a 02 legacy 2.5 single cam. any help is appreciated.

  1056. I am looking to buy a used Subaru wagon and I know nothing about cars. Nearly all Subaru owners I’ve talked to love and recommend their cars, but a few have mentioned these engine problems. My question is two-fold: A)What questions should I ask the dealer in order to assess the car’s condition with regard to the engine and prior maintenance? and B)If I were to have the car serviced right after purchasing it, what should I ask be done to prevent these problems and how much might those repairs cost(approximatly)? Any advice would be greatly asppreciated.

  1057. Justin,

    Thanks for the advice, you were right. I brought my Outback to a Subaru pro and they pulled the motor and did the head gasket the right way with OEM parts. Thanks and have a happy new year.

    -Luke

  1058. Consumer Reports indicates below average engine ratings for 2002, 2003 and 2005 2.5L Subaru engines. Is C.R. refering to the gasket problem – or is something else lurking under my 2003 Legacy’s hood?

  1059. Kevin,

    You never stated if you checked the deck of the engine block for warp or if you inspected the liners for cracks. As long as the rest of the repairs were made correctly (Head bolt Torque) that is probably where the problem lies, and it is not repairable it will require a different short block.

    Justin

  1060. Erick,

    If the oil is contaminated, there may be more wrong than the Head gasket, this is very rare, but a blown head gasket causing an overheating situation really wouldn’t contaminate the oil.

    If you have coolant in the oil, there may be more wrong, you won’t know for sure until it’s taken apart, but if there is no gasket failure from the cooling jacket to the oil galley you will than know there is more wrong.

    Justin

  1061. Hi Nancy,

    There are so many variables in the way the head gaskets are repaired it’s hard to say if it will reoccur or not, most likely no.

    The battery / electrical system is just one of many factors that contribute to the degrading of the head gaskets. As long as the cooling system is kept up, and the engine oil is changed lots and often you should be fine.

    Buying one that has recently been repaired is typically better than paying the same price for one that needs to be repaired in 6 months.

    Justin

  1062. my 1999 subaru outback has the 2.5l dohc engine and I jsut had the head gaskets replaced. Then I had the rear main seal replaced because the pressure build up after the HG replacement blew the rear main seal. I am now having problems with my transmission. It only slips when I turn hard right from a stop. If I am taking a corner that is not a hard right the transmission does not slip. My mechanic said I might get a year and recommends replacing the transmission.
    Could he be wrong because I also need a new cv shaft on the right side and I thought that might be causeing the slipping?

  1063. hi,i have a 98 st/b jdm forester which has oil in the water system.pulled the engine out and had the heads machined,new water pump fitted,cleaned up all the water line plus radiator with kerosene and fitted the engine back with new metal head gasket.ran the car engine for 20mins then the water in the tank where you fill the water was boiling hot. so we took out the thermostat but still same problem.ran engine 3 times again then checked water.oil was in the water system again.could it be a damage block??

  1064. Hello Justin,
    My 2000 Forester L 150k recently overheated (was in the red for about 2 minutes till I had a spot to pull over)and let the engine cool. Coolant was very low. Checked oil and there was coolant in there as well as oil in the coolant. Added coolant and drove 30 miles without it overheating and parked it. In your opinion would this engine need a full rebuild or could I flush all fluids and replace the head gaskets? There had been no mixing of fluids till the overheating and it was for 2 minutes at best. No smoke or steam from the engine. But the oil is contaminated.
    Thanks for the site is a great resource!

  1065. Hi Justin,

    Thanks for a great website. Just purchased a 2001 Forester S with head gaskets replaced by the dealer, whom I generally trust. Battery was also replaced, but they could not get the car to pass inspection due to a problem with the catalytic converter, which they have also replaced. Per Carfax, car had 3 prior owners and was sold at auction at least once. Assuming the worst (if I understand your posts correctly) – that the gaskets had failed and the battery affected the coolant system before the gaskets were replaced by this dealer – would these repairs by an experienced Subaru mechanic normally fix the problem so that it would not re-occur? I have a 60-day, 3000 mile guarantee period to bring the car back and get any subsequent issues addressed, and plan to have an independent inspection done as soon as he delivers the car (could not get it done prior to purchase, for various reasons.

  1066. Hello Ryan,

    You can fill out our request a quote the parts page on this website. We offer full tech support with parts purchase and a Head gasket repair guide.

    Yes its an interference engine

    Justin

  1067. Shawn,

    I hate pointing these things out post repair, but if it had a known issue in regards to oil consumption, it wasn’t a good candidate for repair, unless it was done with the understanding there may be an increased issue with the oil consumption, most likely the oil rings are at fault. The piston rings cannot be checked without further disassembly above and beyond the head gasket repair, and it is very expensive to do so.

    The oil in the snow should be evaluated as well, maybe its just an external leak, that would be easier to resolve.

    Justin

  1068. Rob,

    Thats going to be a tough call, first it needs to be diagnosed., maybe its something else like low coolant level and a leak somewhere else like the radiator.

    Most dealers will guarantee the work for 1 year or 12k, and really it’s so far out of warranty it may be better to seek out an Independent Subaru Shop.

    Justin

  1069. Justin, I have a 2000 Outback that I am going to do the head gasket on in the next week. I also plan to do the timing belt and the water pump.

    My questions to you are:

    -Is this an interference engine?

    -When I pull then engine, should I leave the trans axle in there, or just pull it all together?

    -Should i get the timing belt from the dealer? I am not a big fan of buying anything from a dealer if I don’t have to.

    -I take it you guys put the engine on a stand and turn it up on its’ side so you can work on it without any leakage coming out?

    -Are there any typical seals/parts you guys like to replace when you have the engine torn down to this level? (cam seal, rear main seal…)

    Thanks for any info you can give!

    Ryan

  1070. We just had the HG of a 2001 Forester replaced 2 weeks ago at the dealership. The technician told me that the car was 2.5 quarts low of oil. After driving and parking it over snow I noticed a little oil in the snow. I checked the oil and it was 1 quart low. Did they botch the fix? I am also wondering if my car is burning oil. I’ve read that the piston rings could be worn causing burning of oil. Are the piston rings replaced when the HG are replaced. If not, is it obvious to them when they take then engine apart?

  1071. Man- you guys are right on the ball! I always considered myself to be someone who thinks “outside the box” but when I read the post regarding battery condition & connections and how they can effect the head gaskets I was humbled. I’ve been a mechanic for over 40 years on an independent professional level and in my my area am the guy most other mechanics look to consult with. I do most all of theSubaru engine work in this area ( nobody else wants to deal with them and the dealer is an hour away) and to date have done around 38 head gasket replacements. Pretty much every subaru in the area. The DOHC engine heads get distorted badly after they overheat from coolant loss caused by the indentation created at the fire ring contact area over time. The multilayered gaskets tear themselves apart from unequal expansion of the block & heads and the next thing I know I get a phone call from another new customer that is sick of the dealers short term repairs and now wants to be sure it’s fixed right so the car is now on it’s way via flatbed. I thought I had all bases covered until I read the post regarding electrolysis in the coolant. It makes perfect sense and I will check every car from here on for the disorder.

    Just a thought – what about installing an overflow bottle on the other side of the car?

    Dewey

  1072. Justin,

    I just stumbled upon your website and really appreciate all the information. I drive an 03 forrester. I had the head gaskets replaced by the dealer at 90,000 miles(warranty). I am now at 120K and having the same overheating problems. I tend to drive long distances at considerable speed.

    Whats your advice? Go back to the dealer? Call SOA?

    Thanks! -Rob

  1073. Hi Lilian,

    The DOJ boot was a cv axle repair to the inner cv boot also known as the DOJ.

    I always hae trouble with the miles to KM thing, it should be fine to go another 100k, after head gasket repairs.

    Justin

  1074. Hello Luke,

    I apologize for the time it took me to get to yours and other recent questions.

    What really needs to happen is for the car to be looked at locally by a Subaru expert, and I know that’s not always easy. If the overheating is caused by an air pocket that very easy to overcome, and it’s fairly straight forward to remove an air pocket from the cooling system in a Subaru.
    If the overheating is related to the head gasket work causing compression gas and temperature in to the cooling system that should be pretty easy to figure out for a pro as well, if they are at all familiar with Subaru.
    The fact that it’s gone undiagnosed lead s me to believe the wrong guys are on the job I am afraid, as its pretty straight forward to figure out if you have the knowhow.

    To answer your question it could be all sort of different things, most likely a head gasket gone wrong, repaired in the car with no attention to detail and or quality, if you care about the quality of the repair you will never repair them in the car, thats the way to make short cuts. If its overheated many times it may have done engine damage.

    If I had to guess I would say, it’s a result f the head gasket work, even if it’s just as simple as the guy who did the head gasket repair couldn’t get the air out, it’s still a part of the head gasket job.

    I hope this turns out ok for you.

    Justin

  1075. Hi Justin,
    Addition information. Looking through Subura service invoice on Jan 07 at 121,054km, there was a repair but not sure if it is relating to the same problem. It says:
    Discovered leaking left front DOJ boot-repacked and replaced clamps.Battery (SCI350PB540)was replaced at 142,109 km.

    Justin, Thank you for this site and helping subura users.

    Lilian
    Vancouver, BC.

  1076. Justin,
    I bought a 1999 Subary Outback in 2006 from Subaru dealer a 113,000 km. I have since going to them for servicing until early Jan 09 I had to go to Kal tire to replace all my tires to Nokian tires because the dealer didn’t have them. I was impressed by Kal tire non-snobbish attitude and decided to use them to service my car- twice so far. Between these 2 times, I noticed my coolant reserviour was low and needed to be topped up every 4 to 6 weeks with green colored coolant. Then last week, Dec 3 09, the reserviour was empty and frantically I got a yellow-coolant to top to full. Green just wasn’t available. I am puzzled why the dashboard temp was still showing at 8 o’clock and no burning smell.Kal tire did a thorough inspection and found the head gasket needed repair. The car is now at 170,000km. Because they had to remove engine, they are replacing the timing belt (the last time was changed at 113,000km), temp as well – $3k. They are also machining the pump but may require a new one if it can’t be machined. Checking my service invoice from previous Subaru dealer, there was coolant flush out and replaced with cool/cond/wwp99 at 144,000.
    I enjoy driving the car and I hope after the repair work, it can still go on for 100,000km. Any comments?

  1077. Justin,

    My mechanic is stumped with my 2001 Outback w/107k issue and was hoping you could give me a bit of advice. Here is the fact pattern so far.

    1. Bought the car and drove it for about 2-3 weeks with a minor oil leak from the lower driver side of the engine.
    2. Brought it to the mechanic and they replaced the lower driver side head gasket. He did not remove the motor and used a “high quality” gasket.
    3. After the car had a new problem of overheating. The heat went to cold and then quickly overheated on after about 15-20 miles. The fans are working and heard from another Subaru mechanic that there might be air in the system.
    5. Next, the mechanic replaced the thermostat with an after market one.
    6. I get the car back and it overheats again.
    7. Now my mechanic replaced the other head gasket and replaced the after market thermostat with a OEM one.
    8. The car is STILL overheating.
    9. He tells me he tried many different ways to bleed the air out of the cooling system and unless there is some other secrete on how to do this then block may be cracked.

    I never had the problem until one of the head gaskets was replaced due to the oil leak. Do you have any words of wisdom as to what may be causing the overheating?

    Thanks,

    -Luke

  1078. Hi Justin,

    I have a problem similar to other I need some advice on.

    I just bought a 2001 Outback w/107k and drove it couple weeks before going though the vehicle. Everything seemed fine except for an oil leak on the lower drivers side of the engine. I bought this to a repair shop and they replaced the head gasket while keeping the engine in the car and using what he calls high quality after market part. After getting the car back I now have a new problem with the car overheating. So this time he replaced the thermostat. Get the car back and it overheats again. This time he replaces the other (passenger side) head gasket. This STILL did NOT fix the problem and was hoping you had some words of wisdom to help me out. The mechanic thinks it is a cracked block or a stubborn air bubble that he is unable to bleed (any special trick to this?). He even went and got another EOM thermostat and still nothing. In your opinion, from the information provided here what would you say the root cause for the overheating?

    -Luke

  1079. Hello Kathe,

    It’s always worth a call, is there any indication of it being coolant or oil?

    We have seen a few 05 models develop minor oil seepage to moderate leaks at about that mileage.

    Justin

  1080. Justin – you are awesome to take the time to run this site. Bless you! I have a 2005 Subaru with 75,000 miles that I was told needs new head gaskets. I didn’t have any symptons/problems – actually I brought the car to the dealer for a recall. I have had the oil changed regularly and also had the battery replaced after 2.5 years. I am very disappointed that I have to invest so much money in what seems like an obvious design flaw in the Subaru. Do you suggest calling Subaru customer service to see if they will contribute to the cost of repairs?

    Thank you! kathe

  1081. Well Mike I am sorry to hear about the accident I sincerly hope every one is ok.

    Here is the thing, just becuase you were unsuccesful in your argument with the insurance company doesnt mean that as a repair approaches some pre determined number it shouldnt be done.

    Id like to point out a couple of things you are not thinking about.

    If a new car is purchased and driven off the lot it depreciates in value the instant the car leaves the dealership a car that is 1 year old will already have a huge variance in book value vs price paid, if that same car has an accident that totals the car, the fact that you recently bought it really won’t matter to the insurance company either. Unless you purchase what is called gap insurance you will have the exact same argument in front of you, with the exception for many that you will get no reimbursement from the insurance company for the interest you have paid on the car loan. Which after 1 year is about $5,000 on a $25,000 car.

    You can purchase what is called a writer to your insurance policy guaranteeing a appraised value paid if a total loss occurs, it works very similiarly to gap insurance does, if you are not familiar with gap insurance , I suggest you do a little research on your own.

    So the chance of accident is the same in the older car with the repairs as it is in the newer car with the car payment or interest lost on 25,000 taken out of the bank to buy a new car, and most likely the newer car would have been a total as well as the newer the car the more it costs to make repairs. Typically if the air bags deploy, or the engine is impacted plus body damage it could very well be a total as well.

    Lets say scenario 1 is putting $3,000.00 into a mid nineties Subaru Outback that you already own free and clear, total cost= $3,000.00, plus interest if you had to borrow it.

    Lets say scenario 2 is buying a $25,000.00 car, 1 years payment interest only= $5000.00, the car that needed the repairs would have had no value at trade in, so some sort of down payment would have been required, in this economy 20% is pretty typical, but lets for argument sake say it 10% or $2500.00 putting the total first year vehicle acquisition costs at $7,500.00., plus typically the balance on the loan is still going to be close to $25,000 don’t forget about tax, title fee, and license costs. None of this is factoring in that a new car costs more to insure.

    So now the insurance company tells you the car is worth $17,000. But you have a loan out for $25,000.00 and no car. If you have Gap insurance you will not have to come up with the $8,000.00 difference in value vs balance owed, but you will have lost $7,500.00 in interest and down payment, these are just round numbers but will be pretty close to a real world situation.

    I don’t ever want to discourage anyone from buying a new car as I am sure they deserve it, but at the same time buying a new car vs repairing an older one for the sake of trying to save money will never mathematically work out.

    Insurance is a bet, you are betting you are going to wreck your car and the insurance company is betting you will not. At a total loss, it’s your job to do due diligence to argue they are wrong in the valuations, but they do not make it easy, and prey on the fact that most can’t hold out with out a car or the cash and need it to end quickly. I don’t know about your state but in mine the insurance company must give you the option of buying it back.

    Its always wise to make sure you are never under insured or over insured, one call to an insurance agent could have helped protect the re investment into the Subaru. Your insurance company will always protect there selfs, with deductible limits, and policy limits, you must do the same to protect your self.

    Hind sight is always 20/20

    Justin

  1082. Nice resource. I have to say that the vehicle’s “book” value SHOULD be considered: my father-in-law’s Subaru was hit and totalled after he had recently put several thousand in to it. The insurance company gave him “book” value and refused to look at any of the repair receipts. Almost as bad, his mechanic wanted the car (for all the new parts) and insurance company refused to say where they were taking it for auction. So if you’re in an older Subaru and hit, you may be sorry if you recently spent thousands to get the next several hundred thousand miles (even if you have “full coverage” on your vehicle).

  1083. Thanks Justin , I’m not sure I’m 100% on what you mean ? are you saying to use a 2005 or newer short block with my 2000 heads (redone of course) ?

    Bruce

  1084. Greg,

    Most likely what you are describing is scale buildup that was lossend from the engine block cooling jackets during the flush.

    As far as the ammonia smell I suspect maybe someone changed the oil, topped of the fluids and maybe put washer additive in the coolant overflow bottle?

    Both are just best guesses at this point

    I have not heard of an specific issues with Proplyene.

    Justin

  1085. Mary,

    This is one of those cars I just wish we could get here so I could get to the bottom of it for you. But since that isn’t going to happen.

    Has the shop looked for inconsistent temperature through out the cooling system , especially in the radiator?

    This is a tough spot, because I don’t want to be negative towards the shop that has made repairs, but at the same time,it just cant be that hard to figure this out.

    Justin

  1086. Simon,

    I know we have talked about this before but has anyone ever rechecked the cam timing?

    The 2004 vehicles can be reflashed there is no problem there. You could reflash the vehicle with the updated firmware from Subaru and see what happens if no other issues are found, if you want to keep this car it needs to be fixed, the colder plug thing isn’t going to work forever, A Subaru is a difficult thing to do a compression test on.

    If we are doing a compression test, and suspect a high reading, we will always take that same compression gauge to another car and do at least one cylinder to have something to compare too.

    I guess what I am trying to say is the reading is only as good as the gauge, and most leave a lot to be desired, it is more of a does it have compression or not type of a tool, while it will pick up low compression I have never trusted the many 200 plus readings I have gotten through the years with my Snap on compression gauge new or old

    Has anyone looked at the NOX readings, Does your 04 Forester have an EGR, if so has anyone evaluated it?

    You will have elevated NOX readings if you have a higher than normal amount of compression.

    Justin

  1087. Bruce,

    Depending on production date and emissions calibration, you may have a 1,2 or 3 year window. Subaru changed the PCV system, and fittings in the block in mid 2000 in the Outback, and then added back the EGR in some 2002 and 2003 models.

    You cant use the 05 and newer engines with Variable Valve timing.

    The best way to deal with this is A Subaru “Hybrid” Reman $2200.00 this consists of the short block, plus water pump, oil pump and oil pan.

    Have your heads redone, and transfer over the timing covers, and buy new timing components, maintain it as you should but also forget about any major maintenance for the next 105k until the timing belt is due.

    Justin

  1088. Hi Steven

    The Waterpump statement is silly, but what I can tell you is that depending on who you talk to at the Dealer the answer will vary.

    Its less than 200.00 to replace the water pump with the timing belt or the same $200.00 plus another $350.00 or so later.

    Justin

  1089. Dear Justin:

    I drive an ’05 Outback Wagon with 68K miles. I use propylene glycol coolant. A few weeks ago, my coolant started smelling strongly like ammonia. Royal Moore Subaru flushed the coolant system with regular water, then distilled water and added a 50/50 propylene glycol/water coolant solution. Now, I have a bunch of small whitish particles in my overflow bottle! I noticed that these same particles, although appearing more clear, are found in the bottle of proplyene glycol coolant I purchased. The particles seem to become less translucent and more whitish the older they get in my coolant system. The particles fall out of solution and rest at the bottom of my overflow bottle when the car cools. Then, get “kicked-up” when I start my car. Subaru doesn’t think I have head gasket problems. There is no bubbling in my overflow bottle, no oil or black exhaust deposit and the car doesn’t overheat. Have you heard about problems like these with proplyene glycol?

  1090. Hi, Justin –

    I wrote in October about the recurring overheating in my ’99 Forester – only happens when the outside temp drops to 50 degrees or below.

    Sadness – I had the HGs done after reading through the posts here – we had tried everything else most people mentioned: thermostat, radiator, etc., etc. but the overheating still occurs.

    The shop that did the work seems at a loss; to their credit they have offered to go back over their work and check it again. Anything in particular that might help them? I’ve told them everything I know. They use OEM parts; would there be any advantage in using specific Subaru parts (like a thermostat)?

    Thanks for time you give here, Justin – it’s a great resource to have for Subaru owners.
    Mary L.

  1091. Justin,

    97 Subaru outback blown h.g, 98 legacy
    major enginr problems. It looks like you really know what your doing, is there anyway possible i can speak with you live time? i really some professional advise

  1092. Justin,

    I am now running as cold a plug I can after finding out through compression testing that 207psi seems to be the issue.
    As previously stated head gaskets have been done twice before by the dealership and no report of ever having machined the heads or block.
    Head gasket part numbers checked out fine.
    From what I understand you cannot flash-over the 2004 N/A ECU, so I guess i will just have to suck it up.

    Simon.

  1093. Hi Justin great site and great info. My wife has a 2004 outback wagon and we love it . It has head head gasket leakage also … the conditioner seems to have fixed it. Now we like the 04 so much that I’m in the market for a second car so I’ve picked up a very nice and clean 2000 outback Wagon
    (cleaner than our 04) however at 114K miles it has serious head gasket problems with coolant in the oil , So I think I’ll be looking for a replacement engine. This is where my question comes in . If I’m replacing the engine how new a model can I replace it with ? With out major differences ? can I go as new as a 2006,7 or 8 or do I need to stick with an older engine ??

    Thanks in advance.

  1094. My mechanic just called to say that when he does a timing belt he likes to buy a kit with all 5 tensioners (?) and the water pump. Is changing everything excessive or just good sense? It is expensive for sure. Thanks much.

  1095. Justin,

    Thanks for the reply. I did buy the ’96 2.5L Outback; it had already had the head gasket replaced. No signs of coolant or oil there they shouldn’t be. There was considerable old oil caked mostly near the bottom of the engine and some on the driver’s side valve cover and adjacent surfaces, and also a bit on the timing belt cover. My mechanic added dye to the oil and I brought it home, carefully powerwashed the old oil away and drove it 15 miles, then got out a blacklight and looked around. Nothing – hooray. My mech will be changing the timing belt. I called my local dealer for an additional quote. They told me they do NOT change the water pump also as a matter of course- surprising.

  1096. Amanda,

    Sorry to hear about the trouble and sounds like at a real bad time.

    Save your self some money and start with just using your nose, smell the coolant over flow bottle after the car has been driven parked and shut off. If you smell exhaust in the overflow bottle its the head gaskets, if not then find a good shop capable of looking for a restricted radiator, or diagnosing electric cooling fan issues.

    I hate to say it but most likely you will find signs of oil residue in the bottle, and the smell of fuel or exhaust as well.

    I hope that helps and I wish you luck with not only your Subie but in finding a Job.

    Justin

  1097. Joe,

    $2340.00 seems high for the 2.2l, there is not nearly as much too the 2.2l and the cost is typically less than that. Having said that I don’t have the quote in front of me and they may have included a lot of items in their quote I am not aware of.

    The 2.2l can and will have some head gasket issues, just not at the same rate as the same era 2.5l.

    If its overheating you have to stop driving it until you can come up with the money, you would pay less in interest on a credit card by fixing it now versus damaging the engine if you keep driving it.

    Sorry

    Justin

  1098. Steven,

    Things you can look for your self are signs of oil in the coolant overflow bottle. Any hint of Exhaust, fuel or the smell of sulfur in the coolant overflow bottle.

    Look under the car for oil leaks, squeeze the coolant hoses, are they crunchy, does the battery look like the pictures in the beginning of this article.

    I don’t ever suggest buying even a $500.00 dollar car without an inspection, If it seems time doesn’t allow imagen the time lost on the side of the road. I have just been at this too long to ever suggest the gamble.

    If you cant make time before the purchase at least have a post purchase inspection done.

    Justin

  1099. Justin,

    You are an angel for creating and keeping up with this site, only wish you were in Boston! I am hoping you may have another theory other than what I am afraid may be the inevitable head gasket answer.

    I recently purchased a 96 Legacy Outback from a private party with 140+ k miles as it was all I could afford (UGH). It was driven home 40 miles on the highway without an issue. 30 days later (beyond the lemon law, of course) the vehicle overheated. It was towed to a local shop (not a Subaru expert) the radiator pressure test was normal and they replaced the thermostat, which didn’t fix the problem.

    I did a block test a couple times from cold to hot, it passed. I have now been told over the phone by another shop that the block test is not an accurate diagnostic for Subarus. Is that true? He was quick to say he bet the head gasket or the motor is junk. (of course after reading your site, I can see why).

    Much like the 3rd paragraph in your article, it is an intermittent overheat problem. The gauge goes up when I accelerate and falls back to normal and so on and on until it reaches a higher temp. But it also seems to mimic the electrical issue you had described as well (more wishful thinking?).

    The head gasket looks like it may have been replaced at one time as we can see the gasket edge overhang in areas and what appears to be an orange/red colored substance in one tiny spot(sealant?). The gasket appears to be the newer kind mentioned on your site.

    I noticed a little bit of a silver substance at the radiator bleeder valve. If this is a stop leak product for the radiator, could this be overheating due to a clogged cooling system? Or…does this sound like the dreaded head gasket problem and the previous owner tried to use some snake oil?

    What exactly is the process for diagnosing a blown head gasket? What is a ballpark estimate to just diagnose? I lost my job 6 months ago and my savings are long gone. I’m not sure I can afford the diagnotics just to have to junk the car.

  1100. I recently bought a 1997 Legacy L wagon with the 2.2L engine, 87,000 miles. It’s been overheating occasionally, just like all the other people’s cars on this site.

    The thermostat was replaced and the system was flushed, but it overheated again.

    The shop finally found hydrocarbons in the coolant and they want $2430 for new head gaskets, timing belt, water pump and spark plugs.

    Does your advice to all the people with the 2.5L engines apply to my 2.2L? If I get the repair done, will I too have a reliable car with a 300K mile potential lifespan like the people with the 2.5L’s?

    Can I drive it on my daily 6 mile round trip commute for a couple months until I can scrape up enough money for the repair?

    Joe

  1101. Justin,
    THANK YOU VERY MUCH for this long-running thread – very helpful! I am going to see a ’96 Outback for sale today (with 100k miles). The owner claims the oil has been changed regularly. Unfortunately she cannot recall if it has a 2.2L or 2.5L engine, and won’t be able to check before I get there. As is often the case when buying a used car from a private party, I will not have a lot of time to assess it, and won’t be bringing it to an expert for checking. Can you please list the top clues to look for, to try to assess the health of the car, especially relating to the issues discussed here? Thanks again. –Steve

  1102. Justin,
    THANK YOU very much for this long-running thread – very educational. I am going to be looking at a used ’96 Outback (with 100k miles) today. Unfortunately the owner cannot recall if it has a 2.2L or 2.5L engine and can’t look at it before I get there. She claims she has changed the oil regularly. As is often the case when buying a used car from a private party, I am not going to have a lot of time to assess the car, and won’t be bringing it to an expert for evaluation. Can you please list the top clues to look for when trying to determine the health of this car, especially relating to the issues you have gone through here? Thanks again –Steve

  1103. ike,

    I am a big fan of the H6. Since its release in its current form in 2001 we have repaired some oil leaks (mostly from lack of maintenance), repaired a few timing chain guides(mostly from the use of non O.E. type oil filters) From there there have been a few sensor updates, and a fuel pump issue on some models.

    The H6 will go through a little more fuel, may go through brakes a little more often, but other than that it will cost about the same to maintain as the H4, but it does feel a lot smoother and has more power to pull a small trailer, or pass the Volvos in your way going up the pass.

    Either way The AWD System is great, and the rest of the car is very solid.

    Justin

  1104. Erick,

    Until the grinding noise is diagnosed I would not make any repairs to that engine.

    Thats the starting point, from there if you are going to pay someone to make the repairs seek out a Subaru Expert in your area, not a Subaru Dealership.

    If you are going to tackle this your self, we do sell a gasket kit and can help direct you through the repair.

    Justin

  1105. I am going to buy a used Subaru but I can’t decide on h6 or h4.Could I get your thoughts on pros and cons of h6?
    Mike

  1106. Oh yes, in your opinion where would the best place to get proper replacement gaskets, if that’s the best rout to take? And who’s the best manufacturer? Thanks again.

    Erick.

  1107. Hay there Justin. Great work on this web site!!! Very informative. Pass it along to your co-workers.

    Have some questions on my 96 Outback Legacy 2.5l, 170k. Start out with where I’m at now. Leaky gasket on cylender 1. No coolant in the oil (yet), now starting to blow white smoke out the exaust, can’t get very far without it starting to overheat due to air getting into coolant.

    Here’s how it started. About a month ago, after driving down the interstate my car died on the off ramp at the intersection. Overheated. After letting it cool down, inched my way over to a parking lot and towed to Tires Plus. I know I know, bad idea, bad circumstances though. They said radiator was cracked, cause it was empty, and needed a new thermostate. Turned out nothing was wrong with the radiator and maybe the thermostate too, but that’s another story. Car ran great for almost a month, then overheated again under same circumstances. Took it back under warrenty, but they said that they must have not gotten all the air out. Ya right. Anyways all of that happend out of the hands of my mechanic due to locaiton issues.

    So, here’s my questions. After all of what has happend thus far, and considering that my finances are basically very POOR, are my only options replacing the head gaskets? Is it likely that there is addional damage, considering that it died twice from overheating but it still runs good? There is now a suttle kind of intermittent grinding noise when I rev the engine up parked. Bad sign? I’ve read in other forums that it’s a real pain to get all of the air out of the cooling system, true? All in all, I’m trying to figure out the best way to get by, cause I’m not doing so well on the finances. This is my only car, and I can go on, but I feel that this isn’t the place. So any suggestions I would greatly GREATLY appreciate. Thanks for taking the time to look this over.

    Erick

  1108. Sophiya,

    Really it’s hard to say we don’t often see white smoke until it’s a large head gasket failure, so my concern is it should be pretty easy to spot especially by a Subaru dealer.

    As far as price it seems high, but I don’t know if they are quoting you for more than just head gaskets, so it may just seem that way.

    Justin

  1109. Hannah,

    Sometimes the lower mileage cars fail with age rather than mileage, a car that sits is really hard on its fluids, and contaminated fluids are the enemy of head gaskets.

    My advice is really to come up with a maintenance plan that fits how you use the car; this may include just a good trip on the freeway to stretch out its legs. But most importantly a car that only driven 3125 miles a year is going to need its engine oil and coolant changed probably much more often than you might think.

    Justin

  1110. Justin
    I have my son’s 02 Subaru Outback in for a HG replacement. Will I need to pull the cams out of the heads to remove them? And can the heads be removed with the engine in the car?

    On the subject of unburnt fuel being drawn into the oil, that is something that can and has been overcome.
    Thanks in advance
    Ed

  1111. Thanks for your informative site. Have been doing due diligence on it. My 2003 Subaru Forester began spewing white smoke from the muffler the day after I bought it from one-time owner- (male late 80’s) who parked it in garage all winter, never drove it off blacktop in warm weather, was in mint condition when I bought it in April 09. There were no available Sub mechanics in region to check it out at that time (very, really rural America). I have never owned such a beautiful, new (by my standards) car. The morning of the white smoke was very cold….the engine started extremely rough. I had it towed to a Subaru dealership in the nearest town 1.5 hours away. They did the diagnostic tests on it, then called later that day saying there was nothing wrong with my car and I could come pick it up and drive back home. Charged me 100 for the service. Plus I paid a 200 towing charge. The weather warmed the following day and the symptoms never happened again until last week when temperatures dropped below 40. Same story…rocky, rough start, white billowing smoke. The engine has never overheated. It runs very smooth out on the highway for long road trips into the reservations. The mechanic tells me it is a blown head gasket. Reading all the information on head gaskets in your blog has helped. I think I can believe him, but I want to go back with the right questions. What do I ask of him that will assure me that it is a head gasket. Also, he said, with a timing belt it would be about 2600 to repair. Does this sound reasonable? The car runs very smooth at all other times. I have had two other, older Subarus that lasted well over 190,000 and even one at 250,000. So I am a fan. The car fits my driving patterns and is safe. Thanks in advance for your reply.

  1112. Hi Justin,

    I’m interested in buying a 2002 Legacy that has been regularly serviced and with only 25,000 on it. The dealer told me their mechanics had given it the thumbs up but when I went in to see it again it was in the shop have its HGs replaced. I’m a bit worried that this car has done so little mileage to already have a HG and that I’d be buying into more expense. On the other hand it seems that all the subarus in my pricey range are predisposed to this problem…and I really like subarus. Any advice?

    Cheers,

    Hannah

  1113. Hello Krista,

    Here is most likely what has happened, the car already had head gaskets that were on the verge of failing, the shop replaced the hoses, and while the air was being purged out of the cooling system the suspect gaskets were pushed to far and completely failed.

    This happens as the tiny air pockets trapped in the cooling system cause portions of the engine to run hotter than normal, and weak gaskets are pushed a little further than they can deal with in the form of increased expansion under hotter temperatures.

    Here is what the shop did wrong, they did not do a very good job of inspecting the entire cooling system as I am sure there were signs of failure evident in the coolant overflow bottle in the way of oil residue or an exhaust smell.

    Another words since we know at our shop what is typical, its pretty streamlined for us to know what we can and can’t or should and shouldn’t do to certain Subaru models and can present that to you prior to suggesting repairs, I don’t want to minimize the potential need for cooling hoses, but at the same time, if we look at the car and see it still has the O.E head gasket(yes we can tell without taking it apart) and or signs of failure developing we would be real hesitant to suggest any cooling system repairs we would instead inform you your head gaskets are on borrowed time, you may need to budget for the repairs and by the way we can replace all the hoses at the same time as the head gaskets for a lower price than a stand alone repair.

    I am sorry this isn’t the experience you have had.

    Three points of concern, a shop that doesn’t own a gas analyzer is not a very well equipped one in my opinion and that generally doesn’t bode to well in terms of professional repairs.

    Second you mentioned they put in the coolant conditioner, which is a real bad idea in a 1998 Subaru and there also be a restricted radiator or heater core now.

    Third, if the shop suspected a new hose of causing an overheat they must not have much confidence in the parts they use, or a poor understanding of the Subaru cooling system and its known deficiency.

    I would if I was you seek out a good Independent Subaru Expert in your part of town and do not pass go.

    The 1998 2.5l fails internally, it will happen to just about all of them, the better maintained the car the longer they will last, its not really that the shop caused the gaskets to fail, it was going to happen anyways, they (based on the info you have provided me) just are not all that familiar with Subaru.

    I know its frustrating, if you like the car I would make the repairs and move on the cost will be like 3 or 4 car payments, the good news being its only 3 or 4 payments rather than 60.

    If you don’t like the car thats another situation entirely Fear of it happening again should only creep in if the repairs are not made by a pro, if they are done well it’s a bump (albeit a big one) on the road to 300k

    Justin

  1114. Dear Justin,

    I own a ’98 Subaru Legacy Outback. On a recent oil change it was recommended that my radiator hoses be changed as they were “crunchy”. I did so and 3 days later on a road trip my car overheated and dropped all it’s coolant. I had it towed 120 miles back to the shop that did the work and they claim the head gasket blew. It seems too coincidental to me.

    On return, the shop first changed out the lower hose thinking it was a bad seal, but that didn’t fix the problem. Then they tested it at a smog shop and said they found exhaust in the cooling system.

    My questions are:
    1. The shop added the Subaru coolant conditioner when they changed the hoses. Is it possible 3 days later that could have caused a problem with the head gasket?
    2. The shop swears there is exhaust in the coolant resorvior. Should I use this as the only indicator of a blown gasket?
    3. Could it be a faulty thermostat and not a blown head gasket?
    4. I asked them whether it was an external or internal failure, and if it was external could they show it to me. Their response was defensive and that if it is blown, it’s blown. Was asking about an external/internal crack an ignorant question on my part? Is there a better way for me to ask it or other questions to ask?

    Thank you,

    Krista

  1115. Hal,

    Sounds like an air pocket or defective thermostat. The check engine light blinking is not good and has nothing to do with the gas cap it would only cause it to be on steady.

    Justin

  1116. Simon,

    Here is the deal, that’s nothing I would ever try, we make only the most professional repairs we can. There isn’t anything short of figuring out what’s wrong and making the repairs that I can suggest.

    I know you are looking for an easy solution, I would make sure it has the latest version of firmware flashed into the vehicles computer, have a real Subaru expert where you live have a look at it.

    The car is fixable.

    Justin

  1117. I just had my 2001 into the dealership, left head gasket was leaking, they covered under warranty, I paid to have the right side replaced, they should have cover that, also I replaced the timing belt, water pump, front seals, oil change, new anti freeze, small hose and new belt. Total $605.00, I thought with 93,000 miles, this is the best way to handle this.

  1118. Hi,I have owned my 1998 outback ltd.since day 1.At 190k car overheated..bottom hose hot, top cold. I changed radiator cap & thermostat & antifreeze. No change.Overflow would fill up, but would not draw back…had soot in bottle. I had the HG replaced w/OEM updated gaskets. Besides idling in driveway,has not been driven since. Now, after HG replacement,bottom hose stays cold, top hose gets hot…bottle fills up, but will not draw back in to radiator. Temp stays good, heater still blows hot. Cooling fan works fine. The heads were checked, were not warped. The check engine light blinks fast, but the fuel cap was off when I got it back. The manual says that was normal. As you can tell,I don’t trust it. It makes me wonder if I should look in to putting my 1990 legacy engine in it. It has fresh HG replaced & only has 140k on it. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank-You, Hal

  1119. Justin,

    With regard to my previous pinging issue..what would i run into if I tried spacing the spark plugs in an attempt to reduce compression….and would I see the timing out at idle if the timing belt was improperly fitted.

    Simon

  1120. Nate,

    I would look at the 1995 to 1997 Impreza Outback sport or try to find a 1996 Legacy Outback manual Transmission. Both models would have a 2.2l with less head gasket issues.

    Justin

  1121. Lynn,

    Did anyone inspect the Engine block for Warp? Was the repair made in the car, were the heads pressure checked?

    If it was taken apart and the head gaskets had failed it should have been pretty evident, if so and it still has issue, that the repair may be suspect or it could have a restricted radiator with all of the stop leak you have put in it, you do not want to put stop leak in your car. The coolant conditioner for the WWP-99 campaign was for the 2000 and newer models only. Look for hot and cold spots in the radiator. Measure the inlet and outlet temps of the heater core look for air pockets in the cooling system.

    I am sure the answer lies in the information above.

    Justin

  1122. Larry,

    We buy our hardware from a company called WURTH. I suggested a machine shop as for a one time install it may be cheaper to have them do it than buy the Time cert kit and it is a challenge to install anyways.

    Justin

  1123. i am looking to buy a Subaru in the 3000-4000 dollar price range. The problem is that the cars in that range all fall into this generation of head gasket problems. can you give me some advice on getting a good Subaru at this price. I was looking a a 1998 outback sport manual but wasn’t sure if this had the HG problem

  1124. Justin,

    Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. Without it we would not have been able to diagnose why our car temperature was running hot intermittently in mountain terrain. Knowing the seriousness of the problem, we immediately took it to the dealership and they replaced the gaskets. If we lived in Seattle, we’d definitely bring our car to you. Thanks again!!

    -Leela

  1125. Hey justin
    i looked up time sert and im willing to pay for it but where can i get it??? ive looked all over the net and cant seem to find a seller…

  1126. 96 Subaru Outback with a 2.5. Owner had new Rad. and OEM thermo replaced at a shop and it still heated. I bought it and removed the heads and took to a NAPA machine shop and they checked them out, magnifluxed and shaved them and told me they was good to go. I installed them with new OEM updated gaskets along with water pump and new timing belt and OEM stopleak from Subaru only to have it now using 1 to 2 inches from the over flow tank aday in a 15 mile one way trip and then later a 15 mile return trip.. I even added a 2nd bottle of OEM stopleak with no results. As long as the overflow tank stays full it don’t heat, stays right in the middle of the gauge. I find no water leaks. Run it for hours and let it set for hours in the shop with no leaks detected. Exhaust shows nothing that I can tell either. Got any IDEAS ?

  1127. thanks for the advise, but wondering what a time cert is? and whats included in a whole kit? can i do it myself?
    thanks ahead of time.

  1128. Hi. First of all I’ve checked many internet Q&A mechanic forums and this is by far the best I’ve seen!! I just bought a 1998 Legacy L wagon, with 88K miles. It is is great shape although it failed NJ inspection for an exhaust system leak (which i think is a minor issue). The previous owner also used it in NYC so it probably had lots of short mileage trips. My question I am reading about the head gasket nightmares. My oil and coolant looks perfectly clean and the battery is clean as well. Is there anything i should do proactively to prevent this roblem (and is my model one of the “bad ones” re: HG’s?

  1129. Larry,

    You can in fact install a head bolt out of a Toyota, next size bolt is a 12mm, versus an 11mm. You just need to use caution, I also wouldn’t use a heli- coil instead have a machine shop install a time cert if you don’t want to buy the whole kit.

    Justin

  1130. Simon,

    The three typical things we see cause pings the ECM cant react too are coolant leaks into the combustion chamber, excessive carbon build or something else such as heads that have been milled to far (increases Pressure and Compression) up or a improperly installed timing belt.

    There are of coures other possibilities.

    Justin

  1131. Nate,

    Run, unless there are documented repairs that carry a warranty or you can at least call the shop that made the repairs. I am not there but it smeels fishy to me from here.

    Justin

  1132. Ive been looking over this site and Justin you are awesome!
    so, i am thinking about buying a 2000 legacy Limited GT with 168000 miles for 4200ish. I drove out to take a look at it. After opening the hood there was an anti-freeze smell. The seller responded by saying he topped it off earlier and he must have spilled. Also when u break you can feel the front get a little shifty. He says he heard about the head gasket recall and had them replaced along with the clutch, timing belt, and break pads. The battery also seems to have a little build up on it. I love the car but dont want to buy a car thats going to have loads of problems. Your input would be great.

  1133. Hi
    First, great site!!!!!
    im the second owner of 96 outback 2.5L
    love it but this HG issue is gonna send me over the edge. first failure was at 96,000, fine did both HG, second failure was at 136,000 did both again but had friends help because of a broken collarbone. 189,00 came the next HG failure, but found that that the middle head bolt hole in the engine block was stripped onn the right side head. inserted two heli coils in the block. seemd to hold, but now we are at 203,000 and a blown HG. i know its the right because i use a scope. the bolt is not holding. can i find a larger head bolt and atempt to cut new threads in the block?? i just sarted a new job after being ot of work and cant give her up just yet. thanks for any help you can give me.

  1134. Hi Justin,

    I have an O4 N/A Forester with 130,000klms on the clock. The first head gasket to be replaced due to leaking coolant was the passennger side @ 88,000klms and then again at 111,000 at which time the dealer recomended to do both which they said should have happened the first time(different dealer)Since then the car has started pinging and is using a bit of oil though I can’t say it was not using oil prior as I was not checking it, just left it to the dealer at service time.
    I have always run 98 fuel and I can nearly get rid of the pinging when using an octane booster of an extra 7 points.
    I have replaced the knock sensor and A/F sensor and running colder plugs. There is no carbon build-up just a nice tan colour on the piston tops.
    The pinging does disapear when I floor it so I can only think I am running very lean and my compression is too high. I believe the dealer did machine the heads but by how much I don’t know.

    Any thoughts?

    Simon.

  1135. Bob,

    On average and results may vary depending on how it has been treated.

    The 2.2l is a good engine, while the head gaskets do last longer they have a few other issues depending on configuration. Such as the single port exhaust engines do sometimes develop dropped valve guides.

    Other than that it should be pretty solid

    Justin

  1136. thanks for your response,i did a combustion test at a local radiator shop,and it was positive,i have the infamous blown head gasket.
    thanks.

  1137. Diane,

    If you want to salvage the car you really need to have it fixed, you risk damaging it beyond repairing, or just adding to the repair costs by waiting to long.

    I would seek out a Subaru specialist though. I am just not so sure an engine and transmission repair shop is the best choice for the repairs, unless they are very familiar with the Subaru or the repair may not last and represent no value.

    Justin

  1138. Jessie,

    The temperature shouldn’t move at all from its normal spot once the engine has reached normal operation temperature.

    You wont see water in the oil, if you look at the gaskets in the beginning of the article you will see the coolant jacket and the combustion chamber are very close together, and thats were they leak on the DOHC 2.5l engine.

    It could have a restricted radiator but most likely it has failed head gaskets, and a lot of people will replace everything else around the head gaskets first before finally figuring that out.

    Like I have tried to post here, tests you can do your self include smelling the coolant overflow bottle for an exhaust smell, if thats present replacing anything else other than the head gaskets wont permanently fix the car.

    Justin

  1139. Justin,

    I have a 1999 Forester. At 71,000 miles i had the head gaskets replaced(were leaking). In April’08 it was suggested I have them replaced again. I didn’t and now I on occassion smell the antifreeze. Today I had diagnostics done and was told that the left head gasket was leaking more than the right one. I have not noticed the heat gauge go up. I was told there was no notice of coolant in the oil. I have 154,000 miles on the car–just replaced tires, brakes in past year, etc. Since I don’t notice overheating should this be done ASAP or can I drive short distances. Since I live in Wisconsin the temps are dropping and I read above that seems can have more problems in the cold. Worth doing and how soon???? I have been quoted $1,800 by an engine and transmission place.

    Any thoughts would be welcome!!!

    Thanks!!

  1140. hello,thanks for helping us subaru owners.,i have a 98 forester,the temperature gauge sometimes goes all the way up,but the car drives fine no knocking and missing,also i can see bubbling antifreeze inside the radiator but no oil in coolant and coolant in oil,no white smoke and car just passed california smog test,could it be a clogged radiator,thermostat or head gasket-

  1141. Alex,

    The 05 Turbo models do not as of yet show any signs of head gasket issues.

    The 05 non Turbo models have shown some signs of minor oil leaks up to this point, no overheating and no external coolant leaks.

    The early 2005 Turbo models have had some Turbo failures, so far it seems to be isolated to the early models.

    The price to maintain is a grey area.

    If the maintenance is done at a Dealer a 30k service is over $700.00 at 3 of the 4 local Subaru dealer service departments compared to our $500.00.

    At the 60k interval the Turbo models get spark plugs @ $11.49 a plug X 4.

    At 105k you will be due for the timing belt. This service starts out at $400.00.

    The turbo model will cost a little more to maintain and may not last the 300k the non turbo should.

    But having said all of that the Turbo models sure are more fun to drive.

    Justin

  1142. Justin, thank you for your time – if we weren’t on the other side of the continent I’d be at your door, car in tow.

    I don’t see how you do it all; I was amazed to find this site. We are going to work with a mechanic we found here and give him all the info we’ve come up with so far, including your site.

    Again, many, many thanks for taking the time!

  1143. Hi,

    I posted earlier about the 2005 Legacy GT. I just wanted to clarify my question a little bit. Does the 2005 model have the same problem with the head gaskets? I saw that you mentioned something about the turbo gaskets lasting longer, what is your opinion of the turbo motor versus the naturally aspirated motor as far as reliability? Any information is appreciated.

    Thanks again for all of the great info on your site! I live in Seattle and am happy to find a mechanic who is so knowledgeable.

  1144. Mary,

    It could be the head gasket, but there just is no way to know for sure without having a look. It’s also possible the thermostat installed is not the O.E. Subaru thermostat, or the radiator is restricted.

    I am always in a difficult spot when someone posts, this and that has been checked because I have no real way of knowing how anything was checked, and what that shops diagnostic procedure is all about.

    We use an exhaust gas analyzer to inspect for exhaust in the cooling system an infrared thermometer to look at different temperatures in the cooling system, fuel trim diagnoses to make sure the car isn’t running to lean, and there is more from there. But the real problem is that looking for a head gasket issue on something you may not completely understand can be frustrating for some shops out there as well.

    But the even bigger issue is driving an unrepaired car around, if the gauge on your Subaru moves anywhere above the spot it normally sits there is an issue that really needs to be addressed. Most likely it acts up less in the summer is you are using your ac more which helps cool the engine down a bit with the secondary cooling fan? Or the rate of expansion has an affect as well.

    Most likely the head gasket is at fault but if who you take your car to may replace everything around the head gasket until there is nothing left to do, this is what seems to happen a lot at some of the general repair shops. Just like I may make the entire wrong conclusion on a Chevy product, out of a lack of understanding the systems and there tendencies.

    I hope this helps, sorry your original post went unanswered but I am really overwhelmed right now with the number of questions coming in, I try to help all, but sometimes it just can’t all be done quick enough.

    Justin

  1145. Mike,

    There is another head gasket article on this site.

    https://allwheeldriveauto.com/a-better-subaru-25l-head-gasket-in-seattle/

    Prior to installing the gasket we use now, we experimented with quite a few gaskets and even installed the turbo versions that don’t seem to fail.

    The common theme: an all metal MLS (Multi Layer Shim) gaskets in the 2nd generation 2.5l holds up better than the O.E. Subaru gasket or the Subaru replacement gasket for the second generation 2.5l.

    The updated gasket from Subaru is a piece of thin steel with a fibrous material impregnated on both sides that is prone to being eaten away at by nasty oil and coolant.

    The updated gasket from Subaru along with a hard line stance on maintenance and type of coolant and the Subaru Stop leak has helped Subaru decrease coolant related head gasket failure, but it has not changed the potential for an oil leak and that is most of what we see with the 2002 and on models, mostly oil leaks with some in for coolant leaks as well.

    While it is good practice the replace the waterpump while replacing the timing belt, and or head gaskets, you will be hard pressed to correlate an engine oil leak to a water pump, but a failed or weak water pump can sure increase the likely hood that the head gaskets will fail due to heat of lack of coolant flow, so there is no easy answer to that question. The aftermarket water pump you most likely speak of is actually similar in design to the factory water pump used by Subaru on some of their models, so close in fact you might actually think it was the same part in many applications this is because the water pump used by Subaru for the Forester is actually different than the pump used in the Legacy and Outback platform and is more about North American production versus Japanese production. The Aftermarket Japanese water pump again looks just like the O.E. Subaru water pump used in the Forester and on a percentage base we repair head gaskets on the same amount of Foresters as Outback’s.

    So again to clarify there are some pictures of a Japanese aftermarket water pump next to a O.E. Subaru pump off of an Outback floating out there in the internet, but if compared to a Forester pump the difference won’t be nearly as obvious. The big difference is the Outback pump part number 21111 AA110 will have a stamped steel impeller, where the older model pump and the one used in the Forester, Impreza which is part # 21111 AA007 will have a cast impeller and superior bearing. These can go a long way to increasing water pump longevity but again hard pressed to correlate the Japanese water pump increasing the life of the head gasket unless there is some sort of a factual based water pump flow rate chart out there that I am not aware of.

    When we replace the water pump here at the shop we do in fact install the waterpump that has the better bearing and impeller, but it’s really about trying to offer a superior product at a lower cost than the Subaru part.
    The best way to help prolong your head gaskets is to keep the vital fluids in the engine clean and free from contamination.

    With a good MLS gasket there is no need for special coolant and or additives.

    I hope this helps and sorry your initial post seems to have disappeared.

    Justin

  1146. Justin,
    Thanks for all the info I had this problem last year on my Subaru outback 04 model.

    Went to the dealer for an oilchange at 58,000 miles and said all the head gaskets had gone or were about to go…fortunatly it was under warranty by 2000 miles…lucky day for me.

    Other than that the only other problem I have ever ran into was getting the seal on the oil changed properly and with every oil change. If ya dont do that oil leaks everywhere.

  1147. I’m reposting this – I don’t know if it made it the first time since I see other posts answered after it. Sorry for being a pest. We are just really frustrated after nearly a year of trying to figure this out. I live in an area where Subarus aren’t as popular, so I’m hoping you can help. After reading through the posts here, I think I have a head gasket problem as well but I’d like your input. I have a ‘99 Forester w/180K miles. Last November it started to overheat, but it only does it when the outside temp drops to 54 degrees or lower. It starts gradually but the longer I drive it the higher the temp gauge goes (I haven’t had it go into the red yet). If I turn the heater on it will bring the temp gauge reading down (and the air it blows is HOT). I had the thermostat replaced (twice). The water pump was replaced a couple of years ago, and the cooling system was checked out last March – no problems there. There aren’t any obvious leaks, although we do add a quart of oil occasionally. Over the spring and summer the gauge was rock steady – no problems whatsoever. Cool weather has arrived and the overheating has returned. Could this be a head gasket issue? I have a good mechanic but I need to give him as much info as possible. Our Subaru dealership isn’t the best for a variety of reasons and we don’t have a shop that specializes in Subies here. Thanks for any info you can give on this.

  1148. I am looking at buying a 2005 Legacy GT Wagon with 44k miles. What is your overall opinion about the reliability of these vehicles? How much can I expect to spend on scheduled maintenance (if priced out at your shop)? Thanks much for any feedback.

    Alex

  1149. Hello Debi,

    There is just no real easy answer to that question. I usually suggest that the engine is removed for the car; both head gaskets along with all other needed components are replaced.

    This is also a good time to replace the timing belt, tensioner and waterpump, to make it a good complete repair that will last.

    As far as how long, that is a question for whomever is making the repairs.

    Justin

  1150. GREAT SITE GUYS,I HAVE A 2004 SUBARU IMPEZA WAGON 1.5 LITRE , WHEN I DRIVE ROUND TOWN THE CAR IS FINE,HOWEVER WHEN I GO 80-120 KPH AS WELL AS UP HILL TEMPERATURE RISES AND A/C RUNS HOT; WHEN I CHECK RADIATOR COOLANT ,THERE IS NONE AND RESEVIOR BOTTLE EXPANDED AND NO COOLANT, HOW DO I CORRECT THIS CHALLENGE??.

  1151. How long should it take for the work to be done, I can’t affold the subaru dealership but I will have the work done by a certified mechanic I just need to know if both head gaskets should be replaced when one is bad???

  1152. Well I wish I would have found this site before the head gasket blew on the left side I am going to replace it and the waterpump and timing belt, wil the other head gasket need to be replaced also?

  1153. What great information, Justin! I live in an area where Subarus aren’t as popular, so I’m hoping you can help. After reading through the posts here, I think I have a head gasket problem as well but I’d like your input. I have a ’99 Forester w/180K miles. Last November it started to overheat, but it only does it when the outside temp drops to 54 degrees or lower. It starts gradually but the longer I drive it the higher the temp gauge goes (I haven’t had it go into the red yet). If I turn the heater on it will bring the temp gauge reading down (and the air it blows is HOT). I had the thermostat replaced (twice). The water pump was replaced a couple of years ago, and the cooling system was checked out last March – no problems there. There aren’t any obvious leaks, although we do add a quart of oil occasionally. Over the spring and summer the gauge was rock steady – no problems whatsoever. Cool weather has arrived and the overheating has returned. Could this be a head gasket issue? I have a good mechanic but I need to give him as much info as possible. Our Subaru dealership isn’t the best for a variety of reasons and we don’t have a shop that specializes in Subies here. Thanks for any info you can give on this.

  1154. *Re-post* This seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle.

    Well, I finally went thru all the posts and see you started recommending an aftermarket head gasket along with the O.E. gasket around the beginning of 2009. Do you consider the aftermarket gasket you offer superior to the O.E. gasket and, if so, why? It seems to me if you use the O.E. gasket and still must use the conditioner, then Subaru hasn’t fully addressed the issue and the head gasket is still prone to fail proper maintenance or not. Additionally, would you go with a good Japanese aftermarket water pump or original equipment? I agree that repairs are generally worth doing, you simply must do everything in your power to ensure they are done correctly. Thank you for your site, it gives significant insight on the proper questions to ask the potential repair shop.

  1155. Hi Mike,

    It can be done, we actually offer a head gasket kit that comes with tech support.

    Meaning if you buy your parts from us we will send you a repair guide, and help answer your questions.

    If the car can be picked up reasonably and you are up to the task I would say go for it.

    I don’t think the Subaru is harder than any thing else just different.

    Justin

  1156. Jake,

    If its just a failed head gasket, and the rest of the car is in good shape you can still get a lot more miles out of it.

    You will be money ahead just repairing what you have vs buying another used problem or all that money on a new car.

    We all go through the dilemma of fix or buy another. You with your Subaru and me with my Dryer.

    Today I spent $150 dollars and 5 hours repairing our 9 year old dryer, I almost spent $2000.00 on a new washer and dryer combo and it was really because it was the easier thing to do.

    If you like the Subaru, it suits your needs and you have found a good place to make the repairs I would give it some real consideration.

    Justin

  1157. Todd,

    There is not a single additive that will solve an external head gasket leak for the long run, and may instead do more harm than good in the way of restricting the cooling system.

    Justin

  1158. Ron,

    As long as the repairs were made well it should be ok, but if it was repaired at a dealer and in the car the repairs may not last.

    There is no easy answer to your question.

    Justin

  1159. hey justin.

    great website!

    im looking at a 96 forester that has a bad head gasket.im a pretty decent home mechanic and have done alot of head gaskets. are these any more difficult than most? or should i pass on the car?

    thanks for any feedback
    mike

  1160. Justin,
    Thank you for an amazing site. I found this while looking into my current situation. I have a 2000 Subaru Legacy Limited, 2.5 automatic wagon. I purchased it in 2007 from the original owner at 172K miles, only putting on slightly over 22k the last two years (196K miles now). I have blown a head gasket or cracked a head gasket. They have not given me a quote yet, though anywhere from 1500-2000 was floated. I am at a dilemma where I don’t know if I should pay to have the head gaskets replaced, only to have something else possibly go wrong, or should I scrap it, take the the money + projected repair costs and look for something else? I was hoping to get a few more years out of the car/250k miles. I drive 5 miles a day, if even, with sparse trips across state in Michigan on holidays. Thank you.

    Jake.

  1161. Great article. Any chance there is an effective additive that you recommend to stop an external head gasket ainti-freeze leak?
    Thx

  1162. I’m thinking of purchasing an 02 O/B with 48,000 miles. Both head gaskets were done earlier this year. Should I run from this car (e.g., its had problems in the past.. will it re-occur in the future)? Vin ends in 5×27667076. It seems like a good deal at $9k.

  1163. Ok….I appreciate it. I’ve really kinda given up on it and it sits in the driveway with 105,000 miles…sad. I hope it is just the headgaskets because it does “have its moments” where it clears up and runs fine. You can feel a noticable difference in performance depending on the day/scenario. Your shop worked on my current daily driver (86 4wd GL hatch) when i broke the oil pump center off in the block. I was pleased with that service so you’ll get more business (but ~$2000 is still a hard pill to swallow!)

    I will be in contact in the next week or two.

    Rob

  1164. Hello Rob,

    A failed head gasket can cause sluggish performance, but it would be better to look at the car first before jumping to that conclusion. There are a lot of things that should be checked.

    We always start any major repair with a complete inspection, and approach it “whole car” that way you know what you need to do now, and plan for in the future.

    Let me know if you have any more questions, or want to schedule a time to bring the car in and let us diagnose the problems you are having with the performance of the car.

    Thanks

    Justin

  1165. Justin-

    I have an 02 outback with the 2.5. I know i have a drivers side head gas. out because of visable external leak and smell. The problem/question i want address is this:
    I get about 15 mpg. Many times the car seems extremely sluggish. It seems to run fine it just doesn’t “go”. Its like its down 50 horsepower and can’t get itself moving. I would like to bring my car to you for repairs as I live in Bellevue but the aprehension I have is this: Are the head gaskets likely to blame for this performance/gas milage issue?

    I hate to spend head gasket and timing belt money on a car thats still going to perform poorly!

    Thoughts?

  1166. Well, I finally went thru all the posts and see you started recommending an aftermarket head gasket along with the O.E. gasket around the beginning of 2009. Do you consider the aftermarket gasket you offer superior to the O.E. gasket and, if so, why? It seems to me if you use the O.E. gasket and still must use the conditioner, then Subaru hasn’t fully addressed the issue and the head gasket is still prone to fail proper maintenance or not. Additionally, would you go with a good Japanese aftermarket water pump or original equipment? I agree that repairs are generally worth doing, you simply must do everything in your power to ensure they are done correctly. Thank you for your site, it gives significant insight on the proper questions to ask the potential repair shop.

  1167. Brad,

    I have often heard that prices to repair Subies in Canada is high and the competency can be low in some areas.

    If you are using oil now it will most likely increase with head gasket replacement. I am not sure how often you change the oil either.

    The price does seem high but I don’t have the quote to know what else is being done. The parts list must include a timing belt water pump etc. at that price.

    So I am assuming that they are replacing more than your head gaskets and just not explaining it well.

    Justin

  1168. Craig,

    IF you are looking to spend 4k on a car and don’t want to have to make any repairs its going to be a difficult task.

    A legacy 2.2l would have less of a chance of needing to replace head gaskets. But would have its own limitations.

    Any 4K Honda, Toyota or the like you buy will need work done over the years as well.

    Cash for clunkers removed a lot of used cars out of the market and the “junk” is now selling at a higher price.

    As far as a Subaru I just fear that 4k just isn’t going to go that far.

    Justin

  1169. Virginia,

    A blown head gasket doesn’t mean the engine should be replaced. The really isnt any reason to replace the engine unless there is some other reason it has failed. If the engine is replaced than yes it should have the gaskets replaced or you will be back in the same boat very soon.

    As far as price it varies but figure $1700 for head gaskets.

    Add $1500.00 to $2000.00 for an engine.

    Justin

  1170. Christine,

    Wow thanks for that but I have to be careful as my wife monitors my posts?.

    Seriously now, Repairs can greatly vary but I would say the head gasket repair can run from $1700.0 to $2500.00 depending on the labor rate and the extent of the repairs such as timing belt, water pump etc.

    I would encourage you not to give the blue book much thought when considering repairs. Unless you are buying a car to sell it and make profit, than the Blue book value should have no bearing on your decision to repair it.

    Cars cost money, either monthly payments, full coverage insurance with minor maintenance and whoops repairs on a new to 3 year old car or from there if you have an older car you will spend more on the cars upkeep but not have a monthly payment and you also won’t put money in your older car every month.

    It will always affect your bank account less to repair what you own, provided you like the car, than to buy a new car every time the older one needs some repairs.

    You shouldn’t be exceeding the value with these repairs anyways, but generally as long as you like the car, it suits your needs I would tell you to keep it and make repairs as they come up, when this advice changes is closer to the 300k mark or when parts start to be difficult to obtain.

    No having said all of that, if you still feel that putting money in your older car doesn’t make sense to you there are pretty ok deals out there right now and I am sure you deserve a new car, but better fuel economy is just around the corner if you wait.

    Justin

  1171. Mike,

    We look at the gasket area to determine the area of leak if any, not just the cross member and exhaust.

    Typically the heads gasket will leak oil or coolant, if coolant there will be a yellow to green crust at the block to head sealing service (depending on what is in it for coolant). Also there should be some coolant consumption out of the overflow bottle even if it is a small amount. All you can do from here is monitoring the situation. I can’t tell from here if you have a gasket leak, plus residue from the windshield washer bottle or the shop you took it to blew it.

    Justin

  1172. Sara,

    I can’t really comment on the prices without seeing the repair estimate.

    The price seems high but there may be more in the quote than just stand alone head gasket price.

    Moist likely the head gasket is blown, and the radiator shop is incorrect.

  1173. Mary,

    The cars we repair here don’t get the going to leak again Subaru gaskets; there is another article on our site explaining why.

    Bottom line is the updated gasket from Subaru is what is in the 2003 and newer models, and even with Subaru Stop leak and the proper coolant they still seem to leak. Albeit much later than the 2000 to 20002 models, I also want to stress that Subaru is not alone in with gasket issues.

    We don’t use the updated Subaru head gaskets; we have been using an aftermarket MLS (Multi Layer Shim) type gasket for a while.

    These gaskets require no special sealer or coolant, but I have no idea what the repairing shop would be using to really answer that question. What I do know for sure is too much Subaru Stop leak will clog the radiator.

    Justin

  1174. Matthew,

    There is no easy answer to that question, but most likely no.

    The WWP-99 covers only some vin numbers and for a certain amount of time and mileage 8 years from Date of Production if not the original owner. So most likely it is out of warranty in terms of the 8 year time frame

    Justin

  1175. Hello Justin,

    Great work on the website. You seem to genuinely care about Subaru’s. I wish I was able to deal with your shop.

    I own a 2003 Forester with a 2.5l engine and 236000 kms. It has been leaking oil for a while now but is getting progressively worse. I have to put in about a liter and a half in between oil changes. I decided to take it into the local Subaru Dealer and they informed me that it is leaking from the head gasket. The tech noticed it right away (of course! – it was probably the first place he looked). I bought the second generation motor because I was under the impression that it did not have the HG problems. Although, I have not had any coolant problems or overheating that some other owners have had. I am thinking that I am going to fix it but the estimate the dealer gave me seem rather high compared to others on this site. Its going to cost 2846.00 (CAN) plus taxes, which puts it to about 3300.00 dollars. That is 1209.00 in parts and 1177.00 in labor (11 hours). This includes a new timing belt, spark plugs and fluids. The cost could go up another 500 dollars if they find that the cylinders have scratches (which i expect they will find because they will have my car ripped to pieces and they will have me by the short and curly’s). Is this price way out of range? Would you recommend taking it to another shop? We do not have an independent Subaru repair shop that I can find. Should I keep the car? What would you do in my situation?

    Thanks for your help and keep up the great work. We really do appreciate you and your service.

    Cheers,

    Brad

  1176. I want to buy a used Subaru Legacy wagon w/AWD and automatic trans.. I don’t want to spend more than $4000. After reading this site and some others, I am loosing confidence in the product. I have a question. What should I buy? The 2.2, 2.5, what year, can I get a good one, do they ALL go bad?

  1177. Hi Justin,
    I have a 1998 Subaru Legacy Outback with a blown head gasket that ruined my engine, vin # 4S3BG6858W6603405. It has 101,000 miles on it. I love my car, but do you have advice for me about replacing the engine with a used engine as well as replacing the head gasket? Will they be two separate replacements? I am going to a reputable independent foreign car specialist. How much should I spend tops? Thanks for all the support that you offer on this wonderful website.

  1178. Dear Justin,

    I think you are the man of my dreams. All the advise you’ve given about the 98 head gasket issue has only added to what my independent mechanic, Oggie at Pat’s Garage in San Francisco, who I love, has told me. Here are my two questions: I have 128,000 miles on my 1998 Subaru Outback,1)what is a reasonable cost for the repair and 2) if I come up with the cash for the repair-Pat’s est was high as was the dealer-is it likely I’ll get another 100,000 out of this car? It’s been well maintained since I’ve owned it (2000) and I really love it, but can’t see spending more on the repair then the actual blue book for the car.
    Thanks again for your thorough explanation, Christine

  1179. I have owned a 2000 Outback since new. Mileage is at 127k. I’m relatively handy and do a vast majority of my own maintenance. I have taken very good care of the vehicle and it has responded with virtually no mechanical issues to date. I just had the right CV Joint replaced (grease on the exhaust was the quick tip off) at an independent shop. They told me and showed me where I have a left side head gasket failure. Their diagnosis was derived from some residue at the seam of the head and block and what appears to be a stain on the adjacent cross member. After a little investigation on my own (I’m a cop after all, it’s in my blood to investigate), the cross member stain is from a spill from the windshield washer bottle (similar color as coolant) when I removed it for spark plug maintenance. You can see where the fluid runs from its point of origin. The vehicle has never had any leaks (always garaged and regularly checked under vehicle) or displayed any of the signs and symptoms of a blown head gasket as outlined in you article. My question for you is, should I just clean the area and visually monitor for additional evidence or return the vehicle to the shop for additional tests? And if you recommend returning the vehicle to the shop, what tests should they perform to make a conclusive diagnosis?

  1180. I have a 1997 Subaru Legacy Outback with a pretty big problem…
    We were on our way to a wedding, got 20 minutes away, and my car overheated. There was some steam for about a minute coming from the hood of the car. I got it towed back home and had a friend take a look at it. We replaced the thermostat and drove it for a few miles and it overheated again.
    I took it to a shop down the road and had them take a look and they came up with a ‘blown head gasket OR a cracked cylinder head’ quoting me at $2300!!!! I live in the Puget Sound area, and that price is REDICULOUS!!! $444 for a cylinder head gasket set!?
    I said, “No thank you” and limped my car home.
    The next day, my brother turned on the car and reved the engine until the temp. guage reached the middle. He did this for about 20 minutes and it never overheated. So, he took it out for a spin and overheated about 5 miles away. He let it cool down and drove again for about 10 miles with NO problem.
    Here is where it gets bad… When he got home, the WHOLE underside of the engine was coated in coolant.
    I called a radiator repair shop and he told me it could be a leaky hose or an air bubble. He said it does NOT sound like a blown head gasket.
    Can you offer any advice? This vehicle has a salvaged title (no thanks to the jerk who sold me it and didnt tell me!) and I dont think it would be worth the money to fix an expensive repair. I still owe $3500 on the car.
    HELP!!!!

  1181. Hi Justin,

    Just took my 2001 Legacy wagon in for an oil change (it’s been 7 months, 6K miles since the last) and found out I have a blown head gasket. No overheating or major leaks yet, but there is a definitely a coolant leak.

    I did have the cooling system conditioner added at the dealership in 2004 when the WWP99 bulletin came out. Water pump was replaced 7 months ago (local shop), and I did not do the conditioner after that. I think this problem may have been present for longer than that. I have had battery corrosion a few times, and currently have some on the new battery I got 8-9 months ago.

    I want my local shop to do the head gasket repairs, not the dealership, so I want to be sure we do all the right stuff. They do work on a lot of Subarus. So, I need the updated Subaru gaskets? And do I need Subaru coolant? Do I still the cooling system conditioner added, or will the new gasket take care of that problem.

    Anything else I need to know or be certain of? Since the water pump and timing belt and tensioner were all replaced 7-8 months ago, hopefully that will all be OK. My car has almost 101K miles, but I plan on keeping it for quite a few more years.

    I’ve been reading through all the great Q&A on your site and have not seen these particular questions addressed yet.

    Thanks!!! Mary

  1182. I’m looking at a 2001 Forester with 90,000 on it. If the head gasket starts leaking before 100k will Subaru warranty it?

  1183. Pablo,

    It is a good possibility; I would start with inspecting the coolant overflow bottle for signs of oil residue, and or an exhaust smell. To be part of the process in confirming the problem, and this is really the only thing you can do yourself unless you own an exhaust gas analyzer.

    Justin

  1184. Tom,

    A lot of this doesn’t add up, I know you are frustrated as it sounds like you should be, here is my take.

    You have here a situation where company “A” doesn’t want to cover repairs and have found a way out of covering those repairs unless it can be proven the aftermarket radiator didn’t contribute to the overheating, but YOU need to point out that during the 60k service the Dealer failed to mention any problem with the aftermarket radiator, I am assuming here that this is where the service was done?

    Was the aftermarket radiator clogged? Calcium deposits don’t discriminate form O.E. to aftermarket but if the radiator is brass or copper and not plastic and aluminum then they do in fact have a case in not honoring the warranty on THIS repair, it does not VOID the entire warranty and you want to make sure that this point is clear.

    Again deposits in the radiator do not automatically mean the radiator was at fault and I am still curious to know why none of this was brought up during the service, and this is what you need to point out, if the dealer did the service did they add any coolant conditioner part number SOA635071, this is what you need to look at on your service invoice and it sure would look like stop leak as that’s what it is, and if it was used and it clogged your radiator you need to go bark up that tree. This would include inspecting the radiator for signs of clogging from said stop leak.

    You have a long and difficult fight ahead of you I am afraid to say.

    Justin

  1185. Scott,

    The updated gasket was used in production starting in 2003 as far as we can tell. We do see 2003 and on with leaks albeit nowhere near the rate of the 2000 to 2002.

    Justin

  1186. Ram,

    I don’t like the idea of repairing the left side only to have the right side leak in 6 months or so. This is just a bad idea and it just goes to show how backwards thinking the dealer still is.

    As far as good will it’s really just hard to say. All you can do is contact SOA (Subaru Of America) and plead out your case, but I will as I always do suggest you find a good independent Subaru Shop in your part of town and not have the repairs done at the dealership.

    Justin

  1187. Hi Justin,

    i have a 96 outback that has recently developed a radiator/overheating problem. A few weeks ago I was informed that I needed to change the timing belt, water pump, thermometer, tensioners, etc. I went ahead and paid $1400 for this issue to be fixed. On my travel to LA from Oakland my radiator reservoir started overflowing when I parked to fill the gas tank. Prior to this my mechanic told me to monitor the coolant level in the radiator itself. Once the car cooled down I took off the cap and noticed that the level seemed empty. I pour nearly half of the coolant until the radiator. Eventually the car cooled off and I continued to LA. By the second day my radiator level again was low even though the reservoir was full. On the return trip again the reservoir started boiling and leaking; the radiator itself empty 2/3 of the way home. I’m second owner and unaware if the head gaskets have ever been replaced. Do you think this my clear indications of HG problems or some other possible problem? Thanks for this great website and please reply at your earliest convenience.

  1188. So, I’m looking at purchasing an all wheel drive wagon and have $8000ish to spend. Is there a model you’d recommend? I want a forester/outback but am really afraid of this head gasket issue.

  1189. Re. Subaru engine problems:
    We have a 2006 Legacy 2.5i Limited wagon. The car had been great. Just prior to leaving on a vacation, we had a full 60,000 mile service on the car.

    On the last day of our vacation, 0ver 250 miles from home, the car overheated. It was towed to the local Subaru dealer, far from our home. The engine failed and the various *experts* agree that it needs to be replaced. Both Subaru mechanics and Subaru’s extended warranty inspector (who examined the car) said there were calcium deposits on the radiator and that the radiator was the cause. The Subaru extended warranty (Universal Underwriters Group, part of Zurich North America) people say that the radiator is an after-market part – and its use voided the extended warranty.

    So… we went to our collision insurer – the company who specified this after-market radiator for use in a collision repair we had several months ago. That insurer has now sent out their adjuster to inspect the car, the idea being that if the radiator was the cause of the engine failure, they are responsible for covering the repair (very expensive – over $10,000 if new parts are used). The adjuster removed the radiator and brought it to another shop for closer inspection. His assessment: The radiator used in the collision repair was just fine, BUT it was blocked with what he called *leak stopper* (radiator sealant), and that too much of this product was in the radiator.

    Meanwhile, we have never, ever used any such an additive. Coolant was added when the new after-market radiator was installed, and additional coolant was added when the car overheated the day of the breakdown – but no additives. Would such an additive be added to a new radiator by the manufacturer? Or by the collision shop which installed it. My guess is “No way,” that this is a red herring, and that that the insurance companies are just trying to avoid responsibility.

    I am bracing for a battle with the collision insurance company — the company that hand-picked the part which voided our extended warranty. I am interested if there is anything relevant that I should be aware of — for example: Subaru’s being prone to such problems, whether there have been any recalls that relate to this issue, etc. Thanks for any advice and info.

  1190. Justin, I am starting my search for a used Outback. What year did Subaru correct the HG problem? Do you see the HG problem with 04 and later? Are there other problems though that need to be watched for?
    thanks for the website!

  1191. Hi Justin,

    I have a 2002 Subaru Legacy Wagon with 57800 mi, that has motor oil dripping on the floor. After reading your informative post, I had it checked and yes it needs the left head gasket fixed. Both the dealer and SOA say my VIN does not qualify for the extended warranty and it has only 5y/60k warranty. I have not been able to convince them of the “Goodwill program”. Is there any other recourse to convince SOA? The dealer quotes $1300 for the left gasket and timing belts and water pump. He does not think there is labor saving in changing the right side now. Does that make sense? Thanks for all your advise and you have a wonderful forum.

    Ram

  1192. Great site. The best blog on Subaru autos, with very clear explanations. Thanks for posting all this info. I have a 1998 Subaru Outback (bought it in Nov 1997) with 113000 miles. When I drive for over 50 miles and stop the car and step out, I can smell burnt smell coming from under the engine hood. I had it checked by the local mechanic and he thought it was the oxygen sensor. I did not bother to replace the sensor. However,recently when I start the car, there is smell of gasoline in the car for a few minutes and then it clears up. I took to another mechanic and he feels the head gasket is the problem. Otherwise, the car runs very well for my mostly stop and go type of short distance runs.

    Please advise if I should replace both the Oxygen sensor and the head gasket?

  1193. Hello Renee,

    Sounds frustrating and like maybe the repairs were incomplete or it’s just that something new has come up.

    Really at this stage its best to have someone who is a Subaru expert take a look locally and go from there. If it’s related maybe you can obtain some help from the first repairing dealership.

    As for the oil level and color is it possible that oil dye was put in? I suspect it could be as minor as a bad plug wire causing a misfire, but the oil thing is bit of a puzzle.

    Justin

  1194. Jess,

    You won’t have milky oil with a head gasket issue on a Subaru, Head gaskets are very common.

    Clearing a check engine light for a 02 sensor code and making no repairs will most likely not yield good results.

    As far as worth, it’s always going to cost less to fix what you have the value of the car in no way should determine whether or not you should repair it.

    The factors should be does it suit your needs, do you like the car aside from the current issue, will taking 25k out of your savings affect you more than $1800.00 will or is 5 to 6 years of new payments appealing more appealing than a few instances or repair.

    I would suggest sourcing out a new Subaru shop though.

    Justin

  1195. I just had the head gaskets and knock sensor (check engine light) repaired at the dealer on my 2000 subaru outback. It seems like anytime someone repairs this vehicle, something goes wrong. Approximately one week after the repair, we had to take it on a 400 mile trip (son to college) where it stayed. During the trip, after a couple hundred miles including mountain climbing, it started acting funky when we were stopping for gas. At low speeds, it lurches and acts like it’s really missing and takes awhile to accelerate when pushing on the gas. After it’s up to speed (45ish or so), it seems okay. We had to leave it at school with my son and thought maybe it was bad gas. Another week later and my son says it shakes and the check engine light is back on and may have flashed. I had him check the oil and he said it’s ‘over full’ and it’s greenish brown with a watery consistency. I don’t know if the dealer there can/will fix what the dealer here did. Could this odd behavior be related to the head gasket repair or failure of said repair. Help! I’m so frustrated with this subaru. BTW it’s in Coeur D’Alene, Idaho. Thanks.

  1196. Justin,
    This website is so helpful. Thank you for helping all of us with these issues and your advice!

    I have a 2000 Subaru Outback Limited Wagon which I have owned since 2005 and loved. It has had no major problems until the past three weeks. I just returned home from a 2500mile road trip and it handled great the entire trip. As I pulled into my home city (10miles out) the check engine light came on. This has been the only on going problem I have had with it. Each summer, when I head out on my long road trips this comes on and it has always been due to the gas cap getting loose. Last year I had to get the sensor replaced and they gave me a new gas cap to stop the problem. No issues until the final 10 miles of this year’s road trip when it came on. I took it to Subaru service and they ran the code and said it was the O2 sensor and reset it. They told me to come back if it came back on. A day later it wouldn’t turn on and all the lights flashed and there was a clicking in the engine. I had it towed in and found it that it needed a new alternator and battery. I also had the timing belt done as it was due. About a week later the light came on again and when I took it to Subaru and again they reset it again saying it was the 02 sensor. It did come on again about 5 days later and I was also noticing that when I turned the car on it seemed hesitant in its start (although it never stalled), sometimes when I was idling at a light (etc.) it would feel like it was a bit lungy, and it sounded sometimes like there was a strange water sound (kind of like water running gently over rocks). They checked it out and said that there was a problem with the spark plug auto lights and that there was a misfire on #3 and it needed a new fuel injector. They also said that the front brake rotors needed to be machined. They didn’t have time to do the fuel injector that day but did the front brake rotors and then the mechanic took it out to test drive it. When he was out he said the AC quit and the engine started overheating. He brought it right back to the shop and they asked me if I had ever had problems with it overheating. I have taken it on 3 summer road trips of over 2000 miles in the past 3 years and it has NEVER overheated. They went in to explore and came back saying they did a pressure test and that it was leaking through the head gaskets and they would need to be replaced for about $1800. I am overwhelmed and confused. Now it seems that the fuel injector is no longer on the table as an issue and I have been given advice by the three mechanics at Subaru and my regular non Subaru mechanic that they don’t think it is worth it for me to spend that kind of money on it given its age (2000) and miles (107k). They say it is throwing money at a sinking ship and they don’t know that they won’t find MORE problems when they go in to fix the head gaskets. I guess I am looking for advice and I have a few questions:
    1. I can’t help but think it seems strange that I never noticed any issues with overheating before (and never sensed any of the issues people write about regarding symptoms. It had the oil changed the week before and they said nothing about the oil being weird or milky etc.) Is there any chance that in the process of these other recent repairs (alternator, battery, timing belt, break rotors, etc.) that something got messed up and that is why there is now this problem? or do you think it sounds feasible that all this stuff is just happening coincidentally now?
    2. I bought the car 4 years ago for $9800 (a good deal at the time) and have already put $1300 in the past few weeks and now am looking at another $1800. Do you think it is worth it?

    Any other advice would be greatly appreciated! I love the car and hoped to get at least another 50k miles out of it but don’t want to waste money. If it is time to cut my losses I will do that. Everyone seems to think this is the smart decision. You?

    Jess 🙂

  1197. Hugh,
    The block should be checked as should the heads for warp. As far as the rings yes 319k is getting up there to not do any lower end work and expect it to last if there is more pressure put on it by machining down the heads, which should have only been done if they were warped and not just arbitrarily machined.

    All you need is a set of feeler gauges $5.00 to $10.00 and a straight edge $12.00 to $20.00 and you will know if the block and heads are warped.

    Justin

  1198. Bubba,

    Tough situation and I don’t think the second dealer is really being upfront. The cost to do a valve job on a 1st generation Subaru with the shim to adjust valves can cost as much as $500.00 in some places, and while I know this is frustrating but doing a valve job with an already expensive head gasket repair isn’t standard operating procedure, its sometimes tough just getting a timing belt and hoses on top of the repair so many shops, independent and Dealership alike can become gun-shy and not always suggest this. The fact that it went a couple of years with no issue, and I am still not sure we really know it needs a valve job. I know the check engine light is on but you didn’t really mention that the car is running poorly, or the check engine light is flashing, or the car has low compression or leaking past a valve. Sometimes when a shop doest know what’s wrong they blame something expensive they think you may not fix rather than look like they are not the experts, I am only pointing out a possibility here, sometimes more information is needed and the ability to see the car to be accurate, which isn’t practical here.

    What are the codes pertaining to the check engine light and how does the Subaru run?

    Justin

  1199. Peggy,

    On the valve job, it really depends on the situation, and the expense. A 1999 Forester with the single overhead cam engine is pretty inexpensive to add a valve job to but a 1998 DOHC would be much more expensive. There are many times that the valve train is still ok at the mileage you have laid out and just installing valve seals is enough. There is also the real possibility of putting a little too much pressure on the lower end and creating a bit of an oil consumption issue.

    Justin

  1200. Hello Trish,

    I don’t know any Subaru shops in your part of town, Sorry, it comes up a lot but I have really no good knowledge of any shops up that way. I would suggest repairing what you have as you don’t put enough miles on a car to be buying a new one in my opinion.

    1. Need information on a 2002 Subaru Forester L. Cam seals are leaking and need to be replaced. About how much would the repairs be? Thank you.

  1201. I have a 2001 Subaru Impreza L with a 2.2 Ltr. I bought it used, leaking oil from every seal or gasket. I pulled the engine and replaced every gasket and seal with out pulling the heads. Replaced the waterpump, and timing belt. The guy said it overheats when you turn the a/c on, turn the heat on and it will return to normal. All fans worked fine. I eventually had a radiator crack. Replaced the radiator(new), hoses, and thermostat. 30 days later it started to overheat agin. I have pulled the engine, sent the heads to the machine shop, shaved, and ready. At 319,000 miles, would it be necessary to replace the rings? Should I worry about the surface of the block being warped before putting the heads back on?

  1202. Justin,
    Great site. Generous accurate information.

    I have a 97 Outback 2.5L sfi engine with 120k miles. I had the head gasket done at 99,000 miles by the Subaru Dealer in San Luis Obispo, CA. Happened on a family surf trip along the CA coast. (This was the fourth time the car had a major repair on a family vacation, bad luck all around it seems.) A month ago, I had the 120K service done at a Salt Lake Subaru dealer before beginning our annual pilgrimage to CA. With a few extras, cost about 650$. The check engine light was on before and came back on the next day, again on a road trip to CA from UT.
    Now the Subaru dealer thinks it needs a valve job. I mentioned that the head gasket had been done two summers ago, and the service manager casually mentioned that his shops includes a valve job in the overall head gasket repair. On the headgasket repair invoice, it lists “two shim valves”. I also requested that the service department check everything while the engine was out to see what else needed repair, so the timing belt and oil seal was also done. The invoice stated that everything else was in good shape.
    So, my question is, am I just out of luck or should I contact the national Subaru Customer service and try to get some type of deal on this new repair?
    I’m not necessarily being cheap since I’ve paid over 4,000$ in repairs over the last two years. Now it will be over 6K$. Any suggestions in how to approach the dealer with this request?

    I have a 94 impreza with 195,000 miles. This is what I had hoped for when purchasing the Outback. Am I being delusional about this car lasting that long? Well, lasting that long without putting 20,000$ into repairs.

    If the dealer doesn’t deal, then I’m going to the independent shop that works on our old volvo and impreza. But before I do that, at what time do I just throw in the towel?

    Thanks for any advice.
    Bubba

  1203. Justin,
    I can’t tell you how much I appreciate all the time and effort you’ve put into this site. I have a much better understanding of what’s happening to my car, how it will be repaired, and how to better care for it in the future.

    I have a 99 Forester with 188,000 miles. This is my first head gasket experience (which happened exactly as described by so many others). My regular mechanic tried to talk me out of the repairs because of the high mileage. But I bought this car expecting it to last 250k. So I am very glad to read your comments about repairing it versus buying a new car.

    I wish I could ship you my car from San Francisco so I’ll know the repairs are done right! But I’ve researched shops and called around. I think I’ve found a couple shops who will do a good job. I have appointments with them next week – they both suggested test driving it first to make sure the automatic transmission is ok before they agree it should be repaired. I’d like to meet with both of them for sort of an “interview” to see which one I’d like to do the repairs.

    One of the shops said they do:
    machine the heads
    valve job
    timing belt
    thermostat
    water pump
    30,000 service

    One thing I don’t see mentioned much in your comments is the valve job. Do you typically do this? Any other thoughts about this procedure?

    I will be sure to ask each shop if they remove the motor to do the repairs.

    Also, do you think the tensioner should be replaced (or just inspected and replace as necessary)?

    One last item: reseal the oil pump. Is that a good thing to do at the same time (or only if needed)?

    Again, thank you very much for all the work you put into this site. I will take your advice and make sure I properly maintain my repaired car so I can (hopefully) get another 188k out of it!
    Peggy

  1204. Hi,

    I have a 2000 Outback. It has 135k and needs the head gaskets replaced. Shop is saying it is a 15.5 hour labor time. Does this sound right? It is a relatively experienced shop with regards to Subaru’s. What is the expected number or repair hours?

    Thanks,

    Bart

  1205. Wow, I love Car Talk! The best NPR show ever! I should have thought to call in to those two. Thanks for the idea to check out their website for ideas for shops in my area. Again, I REALLY appreciate your time and thoughts!

  1206. Hi Justin,
    Great, informative site. I have a 2001 Outback and just found out that the head gaskets are gone. The Subaru dealership is estimating $2000 + repair. They said the + is due to a lot of rust underneath the car that they are unsure of what will happen once they start the repair. The car is originally from Ontario where they use salt on the streets in winter. Other than these two issues, the car is in great condition. It only has 100k. I’m debating now whether to repair it or to buy new. I’ve only had it for 6 years and have only put 60,000k in 6 yrs, so I’m hesistant to spend a lot of $ on a newer Subaru (2006-2008) and then only get a few years out of it. In your opinion, is it worth my while to fix my current Outback? Also, do you know of any independent Subaru shops in Vancouver, BC?
    Thanks,
    Trish

  1207. Hello Jade,

    That’s kind of what I thought; it was fine prior to the flush. So here is the best way to proceed, most likely the head gaskets have suffered some damage. But I also suspect there is a large air pocket that has not been properly bled out of the cooling system as well.

    You can try “Car Talks” website under Mechanic files and look for well reviewed Subaru shops there as a starting point, but maybe ask some Subaru owners with similar year vehicles where they have the Subaru serviced, a lot of our customers come to us by word of mouth, we treat all of our customers as good as we can every visit and most of our customers are usually happy to be our cheer leaders as well. Satisfied customers of a shop are always good people to ask.

    As a shop owner I can also tell you that when a new customer comes in as a referral from an existing customer I want to always make sure we earn that referral. I hope that shop owners everywhere feel the same way and I think that most small independent shops operate pretty similarly.

    Once you find the right shop start a long relationship and you will be much happier with your Subaru experience.

    Good luck Jade , I am sure it will turn out ok once your Subie is in capable hands.

    Justin

  1208. Justin, Thanks for the feedback. I am VERY grateful for the time you put into your blog and the honest feedback and info you give to concerned subaru owners. I don’t feel you were picking on me at all. Believe me, I will never go back to a franchise again for auto service, especially with a foreign made car. It’s difficult to find a mechanic you can trust when you are new to a city, my lesson has been well learned.
    To clarify were I confused you in my story; when I first took it in for service I had absolutely never had ANY problem whatsoever with my car. NEVER. I had bought the car used in 2005 with approx 70-80K mi. Just the regular oil changes, tires, brakes, etc had been the only work the car ever needed. Other than that, it ran like an angel.
    …..Then, I made the terrible decision to go to a franchise tire store to have a simple oil change done and then allowed myself to be talked into a coolant flush even though I had an “icky” feeling about that decision. Since this, the car has overheated everytime I have driven it more than 10 miles in stop and go traffic. When the initial work was done and the belts were replaced the store called and told me the “tension bolt” broke during the process and they epoxied it back together. I was upset about this, but was promised it was a good repair. When I had to take it back in d/t the over heating they ended up having to replace the “tension bolt and bar” (with subaru parts) because it broke again on them when they were replacing the thermostat (with an aftermarket part). They were very quick to tell me Subaru kept this particular part in stock b/c they “break all the time”. Then, my car over heated AGAIN, I took it back and that’s when they replaced the thermostat and fan heat sensor with subaru parts. When it over heated again after this I was sent to the local franchise site where the “master technician and state inspector” works. He was the that did the pressure test, found nothing and then looked at the level after it sat all night and saw that the level was low. He was stumped so I got my car back with no repairs and no direction of where to go from there (that was yesterday). This morning I decided to put some water directly into the radiator before driving it the 11 mi to work (just a little, like maybe a third cup to half cup). No overheating this morning! I know I need to search the local area for a mechanic who specializes in subaru. I dont even know where to start looking. Is there a list somewhere for certified subaru tech’s/mech’s? Is putting water or coolant (which would be better?) directly into the radiator OK until I can find someone who specializes in subaru (I only drive my car one day a week and that is the 22 mi round trip to/from work)?

  1209. Hello Jade,

    I had to moderate the shop name out of the post.

    One point I didn’t understand was the condition of the cooling system prior to the car going in for service, towards the end of the post you wrote “Even though I told him it overheating and overflowed prior to me dropping it off—that would have made the fluid low”

    Here is the deal and I really hate saying it and please don’t think I am picking on you, but this is what typically happens when cars are serviced at tire stores, and franchised auto repair centers.

    I realize this is frustrating, but it can be avoided in the future as well with better practices.

    This is also what can happen when car repair is treated like a retail transaction rather than a valuable service where you want to get as much for your money and not the lowest price. I point this out so others can read and maybe avoid the same pitfalls. I am also concerned about the parts that were used at the tire shop in regards to the belts and hoses.

    Now not servicing the car as laid out in the owner’s manual is not such a great idea either.

    Vehicle service can vary so much from repair center to repair center and it is always best to establish a relationship with a shop familiar with your make and take your car to them for all of its service. Let that shop help you maintain your car as it should be maintained and repaired as things come up, you can and will get to 300k this way.

    There is pretty much no chance of the tire store really fixing the car. Yes it sounds like head gaskets, especially with the black particles floating around in the coolant overflow bottle. The fact that they think a blown head gasket would cause the oil to be murky in Subaru, and are doing a pressure test as a means of diagnoses is all the proof we need to know they just don’t know the car very well.

    Subaru has numerous bulletins about the use of coolant flushing machines, they are plain and simple not supposed to be flushed. Actually if the coolant is serviced every 30k at a minimum there is no reason to flush it.

    Yes you really want a good Subaru Shop involved from here not for just this occasion but from here on out.

    Justin

  1210. Hey Catherine,

    Yes they should have been more proactive about letting you know the condition of the car and making the decisions from there.

    I still have trouble with the engine damage part in light of it really not over heating? If the head gaskets were the cause of the radiator leak they really should have been caught three weeks earlier.

    Justin

  1211. Hi! I have a 2003 Forrester with 114K mi. I took it to a tire shop about 6 weeks ago for a $20 oil change (I’m not great at getting the oil changed right on time-just to be honest). So, $660 later I leave the tire shop with an oil change, new belts, coolant system hoses, two new tires for the front due to nail damages AND..(drum roll)…the coolant flushed. I pick my car up thinking I just took my car to a much needed spa appointment and she should be as good as new. 10 miles into my drive to work the next day it over heats and the overflow tank overflows. When I popped the hood the overflow tank had black specks floating in the liquid. I filled overflow with water to get it back to the tire shop Tire. After three more visits to the tire shop I have had an aftermarket thermostat, a subaru thermostat and a subaru temp sensor for the fan placed. Today, my car sits at another the tire shop where the “master technician and state inspector” works. They completed a “pressure test” and found no leaks. They saw the fluid was low in radiator and thought maybe that was causing the fan to not come on and therefore over heating (Even though I told him it overheating and overflowed prior to me dropping it off—that would have made the fluid low). I went to pick the car up this morning after being told they were sorry, but they field tested it and it didn’t over heat for them after they filled the fluid and they have no answer for me. I got there and saw that my car was back in the garage area with the hood up. AppaRently they checked the fluid level this AM and it was low again. They cant see that is it leaking externally anywhere and there is no oil in the fluid and the oil is not murky from anti-freeze. Again they say they are stumped and if they can’t figure it out today they feel I should go to an independent subaru or foreign car specialist……..any thoughts on where I should go from here? Could it be the HG? Sorry for the lengthy story.

  1212. Just another thing is – I have going over my paper work and they hand wrote a list of things that needed to be done but no where does it say anything about the HG – and the list is work they had done on the car 2 years ago. The person I bought the car gave me the previous work done records – Is this common that in 2 years the same work would have to be done – the items are Inner tie rod boots torn – boots washers tie rods $528 Left front ball joint boot torn $211 – they just did these things right before I bought the car –

    Thanks again and sorry my posts are long.

  1213. Hi Justin,

    Thanks – I wasn’t sure if I posted it right so apologies for the duplicate.

    I had failed emmissions for the codes PO463 and PO440.

    I had gotten a few estimates that were lower from a local mechanic. But before I started reading your webpage – I has always thought it best to go to the dealership – particulary since the first owner of the car bought the car ther and they has always serviced it.

    The dealership replaced 2 sensors June 23 so about 6 weeks ago for $678 or the repair order it states replaced both fuel level sensors mounted in fuel tank.

    When the incident happened – I was driving in rush hour traffic of course over the biggest bridge in Boston 🙂 and the car started to smoke – I looked at the guage and it was dead center, never changed – I ha also noticed a few weeeks before that the car felt warm when I stepped out but the gauge looked find so I dismissed it. I quickly turned the engine off and put the flashers on and when I got out could see all the green like fluid running from under the car. Then it was pushed off the bridge by a state trooper and towed. I’m not sure if the dealership tried to start it. I’m also not sure if I should push them – I just feel they should of advised me about the HG and the potential problems –

    Any thoughts are appreciated.

    Thanks

  1214. Hello Catherine,

    I had received the post on Friday I am sorry for the delay, it’s hard to get to all of the questions sometimes especially on the weekends

    I hope any advice doesn’t come too late to be of any good.

    There are a couple of pieces of information I was missing as well, how much time in between the visit to the Dealer and the radiator failing. Typically the radiator can leak out all of its fluid and not damage the engine if the car is shut down in time. Just curious to know if the temperature gauge had pegged, or if there were any smells prior to the big event that led it to being towed. What sensor was repaired? If it was an air fuel or o2 sensor did the dealership make mention of signs of coolant contamination?

    It’s really hard to say if anyone made a mistake, I know from being a sympathetic business owner I always find myself in a difficult position when asked if the repairs can wait. I suspect the severity of the repairs may have been ignored in part by the dealership or it really could be that the Radiator leak took suspect head gaskets and pushed them into total failure (head gaskets are the weak link on a Subaru). Now if the opposite is being assumed (the head gasket caused the Radiator to fail) then they did let this go without knowing the severity of the issue.

    The radiator could have failed from the head gasket leak putting pressure into the cooling system or it could have failed due to age. I would have hoped that a minor radiator leak would have been caught by the Service department.

    So on to what to do now, if you like the car and the mileage is under 250k I would suggest you consider repairing it. It doesn’t qualify for the “cash for clunker” trade on a new car and it will cost considerably less to repair this one than buy another one. You could feasibly get another 5 years out of the car or at least to a point where financially a new car was a better option for you. I do want to caution that there may be some grey area in the repairs and I am concerned that the Dealership may not be the best place to have the repairs made.

    This sounds like a bummer, but one that can be overcome

    Justin

  1215. Hi Justin,

    I thought I had posted on Friday but I guess it didn’t go through.

    I have a 2000 Outback that I bought used 2 years ago. It has 121,000 miles on it. On Thursday the radiator exploded in the middle of rush hour traffic on a bridge in Boston. The guage never changed – in the car – I had noticed that the AC was not working well and when I turned the engine off It felt hot when I stepped out of the car.

    The car had just been to the dealership at the end of June to replace the sensor to pass emmissions inspection and when I was ther I asked them to check everything and do the oil change and fluids. I am very diligent about the oil changes. The sensor cost me almost $700. and 2 months prior I had a starter and new battery put in by a local gas station because the car wouldn’t start and I needed it quickly and the dealership couldn’t do it.

    So on thursday I had the car towed to the dealership when the radiator blew and on Friday they told me that they would need to put a new radiator in before they could find out what happened and most likely I would need a new engine and just to get the car running I was looking at $4000. I paid 5k for it and I was laid off from my job recently so no way can I afford it. I found someone to buy the car for $500 dollars but he suggested I push the dealership since they had just done work and they told him that they had told me on my last visit I had a leak on the HG. They did not tell me that – At my last visit I asked if there was anything that I needed to address immediately because I needed the car to be in good running order – They provided me with a hand written list but no where on it does it say the HG was leaking. They also said everything could wait and nothing to worry about. Sorry for the long post – I am just not sure if I should sell it for the $500 and cut my losses and if what their saying is correct. It seems they would of noticed something in June and they would of advised me to take care of the HG-

    Thanks and again sorry for the long post

  1216. Hi Justin,

    I have a 2000 Outback I bought used – I love the car and at the last inspection the check engine light was on and it didn’t pass- I was told that the sensor needed to be replaced to the tune of $650. I also requested that they check the car completely and tell me what needed to be done to keep it in good running order. When I picked up the car the dealership had a list of things that needed to be done, the belts, boot was ripped, new tires and the ball joint and I was told a small leak on the head gasket. I asked if I should address these things right away because I wasn’t working and I may need the car if I was offered a position I would need to drive to. The service mechanic said no I had nothing to worry about but should replace the belts when I get my next oil change. I also asked them to check all of the fluids and do an oil change.

    Yesterday I was driving in Boston across a bridge (Tobin Bridge) in rush hour and my radiator exploded. I thought the car was on fire. I had it towed to the dealership and they told me the radiator would be $700 and after that I may need a whole new engine but they couldn’t tell me anything until they replace the radiator and then they could go from there with any damage to the engine. Then he said I was looking at the very minimum a $3400 repair bill. He said the leak on the gasket may have caused this and I asked why didn’t they tell me that 3 weeks ago and he said they noted it on my file. I can’t afford this and maybe I’m just looking to lay blame but I feel the dealership shoud of informed of the possiblility of what could of happened and given me the option to repair the leak when I asked. I found someone that would buy the car for $500 but he also suggested I investigate and he is a mechanic. He said he felt when he spoke to the service tech he acted very strange and he told him he had told me about the gasket and that I should of replaced it – but he is not the person I spoke to when I had the sensor repaired – I don’t think I have any options since the car is used and I don’t have a warranty – but the guy that would buy the car for $500 said he would strongly suggest I push the dealership because it sounds fishy.

    Your thoughts would be appreciated.

    Thanks

  1217. Les,

    As long as we are talking about a small oil leak then it is ok to delay the repair, I just wouldn’t drive it accross country until it is repaired.

    Justin

  1218. warugongo,

    I am sorry, but I don’t really have a shop to refer you too. There is no reason to buy an engine to fix a gasket leak as you will still need to replace the gaskets.

    Justin

  1219. I changed the head gaskets on my 2000 Legacy GT wagon. had 227,xxx miles on it when I did. now has another thousand and I have broke the clutch in with no coolant loss. I’m very happy with the car, just that I would rather find a turbo one after this.

  1220. I have a 2000 Outback, the mechanic stated after my last oil changesays the left side the head is showing that start of seepage of oil on the left head. There are never drips on the garage floor. The car never uses any oil between oil changes and the coolant level is always good. I live in Canada where the winters do get cold and apparently that is when leaking gets worse. Should I be alarmed and tend to this now, or can it wait until the next oil change. The car is in excellent shape and has only ever had a wheel alignment when I did a tire change. I believe there are still many troublefree years with this car so I do plan to fix it in a month or two.

  1221. I live in Charlotte nc and im struggling to get a good shop which can fix my 98 outback 2.5l head gasket. do you have any shop in mind?
    if i decide to buy an older engine for instance 96 and beyond can it work?

  1222. Brian,

    I the valves are hitting the pistons than I suspect the timing belt may not be installed correctly. There is a limit that can be machined off of the head and a good machine shop would
    never exceed that.

    We offer a head gasket that has a crushed thickness greater than the O.E. gasket.

    Justin

  1223. Leggy,

    Cleaning the battery can be a dirty job.

    There are some chemicals that can be purchased at auto parts stores but baking soda and water will also do the trick. Now to the important part be mindfull of where the mess is going and really rinse off everything well.

    Justin

  1224. Justin,
    I have a 200o outback with about 190K miles that I had the heads done over on. No when I start it, it sounds like the valves are contacting the pistons. I had a mechanic friend tell me that sometimes the heads are planed alitte too much and you need to use oversized gaskets to fix. Have you seen or heard of this? Where would I get an oversized gasket? Subbie doesn’t carry them.

  1225. Awesome site! My battery is starting to cake with corrosion, what do you suggest the best way to clean the battery? Scraper?? I want to avoid the HG failure by electrolysis even though I have a EJ22E and they are not as susceptible to HG failure

  1226. Hello Matt,

    Typically if the transmission is overfilled fluid will be pushed out of the vent under pressure.

    If the transmission is working ok now and the fluid level has been corrected than realistically damage may not have occurred. When an automatic transmission is overfilled typically pressure will increase, if there is a seal or component can’t handle the pressure increase something will have to give. Typically a seal leak, either internal or external.

    Once a gasket leak is observed it really should be done sooner rather than later for a whole lot of reasons. It will never leak less one, and sometimes waiting to repair can increase the price if other items need to be done as a result of allowing the leak to go on too long. A good example of this is a head gasket that eventually causes an overheating situation which can greatly affect the repair costs.

    Justin

  1227. Hey, Justin
    i feel like an idiot. i am pretty sure i have a bizzare case, and know it is going to shock you. So i am 16, and have done all the maintanence on our family’s 2006 Subaru Outback 2.5i. It is a wonderful car, gets driven a lot. and the AWD gets used basically everyday. (i have great AWD stories) so at around 62,000 miles, i noticed that the area around the passenger side head gasket was slightly dark. i immediately thought” great, the powertrain warrenty ended at 60,000.” I was well aware of the head gasket issue in the older EJ25’s, but never knew it was covered until 100,000 miles. the car currently has about 124,700 miles. (yeah, it gets driven a lot.) Since 62k miles, the head gasket has gotten worse, but rly rly slowly. Now it has gotten to the point where the whole underside of the passenger side of the engine is black, and goey. The leak is not bad, it just leaks very slowly and has made a mess of things. The car smells a little, but not bad at all, i can sometimes smell it being a little like coolant. (barely noticeable) i am not sure if the leak is coolant or oil. (like i said, its a very slow leak) and i basically have noticed that every time i change the oil, the leak is worse, but not by much. as of right now, the whole passenger side of the underside of the engine is a mess, its all goey and dirty and slimey. As i changed the oil the other day, i noticed that the area surrounding the drivers side head gasket was slightly dark, and its all starting again on the drivers side.
    This subaru has been basically perfectly maintained. I have changed the oil EVERY 3,000 miles with synthetic oil. (usually with pennzoil platinum 5w-30 (or 10w-30,10w40 in summer) and a phram toughguard filter) it has had the coolant changed every 30-35k(with the subaru coolant conditioner) and the spark plugs were changed every 50k. (with subaru plugs) i keep the battery somewhat clean, and the engine runs and sounds like the day it came out of the dealer. It even uses the same amount of oil every 3k as it did when it was new. It doesnt smoke any oil. it also gets a bottle of fuel cleaner every 3k. (i think the regane cleaner) oh yeah, and i change the air filter as needed. (never getting too dirty) When the car had 80k the crankcase seal went, and was dripping oil out of the timing belt cover, and onto the exhaust manifold. it was replaced by subaru. That is the only problem the car has had so far in 124k. also, when the car had 120k i checked the automatic tranny fluid correctly for the first time, and there was about 1 quart too much in it. (guess i should have checked it sooner) Our family has had a 98,00,02,and now an 06’outback with the EJ25 engine. The 06 is the only one that has had problem so far. my dad is incredibly pathetic when it comes to car maintenace, which is why i do it all, and he would rather get a new car, than deal with the head gaskets when the time comes. i know that the car is easily capable of 300k. We are throughly satisfied with the car and will absolutely buy another subaru. However, what should we do about the head gaskets right now, and by any chance, what could happen to the tranny after being a quart too high for 120k on the original factory fill. How bad should the head gasket be leaking before it is replaced? This car has only had one problem so far,(not including the head gasket) and has proved itself the most reliable vehicle we have ever owned. Im getting ready to buy my first car, which will be a 2005 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS. and from what I’ve noticed from consumer reports reliability survey, the head gasket issue isn’t really a problem with 05 and later EJ25’s
    p.s. the majority of its daily driving is on the highway.

    Thanks, and im sorry this is sooo long.

    Matt

  1228. Hey Blair,

    Either 2.2l is a good engine, The 2.2l legacy is a great way to go, very, very reliable. The only draw back is ride height if that matters to you.

    As to the version of 2.2l I actually need the date of production as well.

    I am 90% its the first generation 2.2l.

  1229. Hi Justin. Let me first say, what a great site. I’m considering buying a 98 legacy 2.2l H4…vin#4S3BK4351W7311602 Can you tell me if this is 1st or 2nd gen 2.2..also can I get your opinion on this vehicle as a whole compared to other subarus..thank you so much

  1230. Hi Debra,

    If its coolant leaking they need to be doen sooner rather than later, if its oil that is leaking it is something that can be monitored but it will eventually need to be done.

    I usually suggest budgeting for it as soon as you can, you need to balance when you can afford it versus taking care of it before it gets worse because it will. If it overheats it can add to the repair costs as well.

    Justin

  1231. Hi Steve,

    There is less chance of failure in a 2005 and newer model. Not so much as a result of a better gasket but better understanding of how to avoid issues.

    Justin

  1232. Hi Justin:

    Can you tell me if it is dangerous to not do a replacement of the head gaskets when a mechanic finds a slight leak? I have a 2003 Subaru Forester, and my mechanic noted this as a future service, but didn’t seem to feel that it need be done immediately. I’m worried because my teenage daughter drives my car a lot. Are head gaskets something that will give out gradually or can they just go suddenly and cause an accident? How will I know when it is serious enough to get fixed? My mechanic wasn’t very clear about this.

    As you can tell, I know nothing about this. Thanks for all your information!!!

  1233. Justin

    I’m thinking of buying a used 2006 Subaru Legacy wagon with 40,000 miles on it here in Portland, OR from Carr’s Subaru. What’s the chance of head gasket issues in models that late? Any substantial improvement since 2002, 2003, 2004, or did Subaru not materially change this part of the engine design from 2003 on? Thanks for your help. I’d drive to Seattle to buy from you, but it’s a bit far! Thanks.

    Steve

  1234. Hi Bill,

    This does come up often and it is really hard to prove cause and affect sometimes.

    If the warranty is A Subaru branded warranty then you are stuck having repairs done at the dealership, if the warranty is an aftermarket warranty you can have a good Independent Subaru shop give a second opinion and make the repairs under the same warranty.

    On the WRX we see a lot of radiator leaks from the upper tank seam, and if not caught it can cause head gasket failure due to low coolant levels in the cooling system. Now at the same time a head gasket can fail without the cooling system ever becoming low.

    Regardless of what the dealer is stating there really is now way to determine which happened first, (the chicken or the egg) in most cases. Unless they have determined the cause of overheating to be something other than the head gaskets than the head gaskets should be covered.

    This is can be a difficult thing to deal with and the Dealer would really just like to have you pay for it as would whoever has to pay for the repairs under warranty, think of it like insurance, the first offer is not always the final offer. So to answer your question yes the vehicle can and will overheat as a result of a failed head gasket without any other cooling system deficiencies found.

    So if the head gaskets are failed and no other problems have been found than it should be a done deal its covered, but if the dealer has found a leaking radiator than you are probably on the hook for the cost of the repairs. I know hind sight is 20/20 but as soon as your son saw the temperature gauge move from its normal position he probably should have taken it in for a check out of the cooling system.

    There is really no easy answer without viewing the car.

    I hope this helps some

    Justin

  1235. Hi Justin. Unbelievable site, you are incredibly generous with your knowledge. My son has a 2nd hand 2002 2.0 liter impreza wrx with 102,000 miles. For awhile he noticed higher than usual temp readings, so he checked the coolant level (which was low) and just poured more coolant in. This happened several times. As far as he knows, the car never actually overheated (temp in the red zone). However, last week he blew a head gasket, the car is inoperable. He bought an extended warranty with the car, but it specifically does NOT cover damage due to overheating. The dealer is assuming that the damage was caused by overheating. From your answers to questions here it sounds like there are many other possible causes of a blown head gasket. Do you think that a reasonable argument can be made that any overheating was the result, not the cause, of the blown head gasket, and that the other damage to the engine likewise resulted from the head gasket failure, and thus should be covered under the warranty?

  1236. Ron,

    There is no way to know if the head is warped without taking it apart, it’s not typical that the head would warp first off and second it is not expensive to have a head machined.
    A warped head would not require replacing the engine at all by any shape of the imagination.
    If you are going to buy it and make the repairs yourself you may want to consider buying our gasket set as we do provide tech support and a repair guide as well as the best parts possible to use when making the repairs.
    I wouldn’t be afraid of buying a 1999 for $1200.00 id buy it in a second.

    Justin

  1237. Stephanie,

    I really don’t have a shop to send you to, sorry. It does come up a lot but I just don’t know where to send you, you can try Car talk’s website under Mechanic files, or just ask some other local Subaru Owners where they have their Subie serviced.

    Justin

  1238. Hello Moss,

    Could be a faulty radiator cap or you have an air pocket in the cooling system. Was the air bled out properly when the cooling system was service to replace the upper radiator hose? Its not just a matter of filling it back up it must be bled, and if not done correctly it will end up with failed head gaskets

    Justin

  1239. Hello Rosanne,

    Yes the Timing belt and water pump should be done as it will drastically lower forward going ownership costs.

    The bulk of the cost to replace the timing belt is the labor and the timing belt is generally done for no labor while the head gaskets are done.

  1240. Thanks for the response on the radiator above, Justin. And you are right that the shop where I’m taking it may not be the right one! Unfortunately, I live in a place where Subarus are very rare and I don’t have much faith in the shop that fixes it. Can you recommend any good independent shops anywhere in AZ, Las Vegas or the LA area? All are in reasonable driving distance for me if it means I can get someone under the hood who knows what they are doing. Thanks!!!

  1241. hi thanks for feedback. In addition the upper radiator hose collapses when the car cools and any water / cooland i put into the radiator appears in the overflow bottle. I also hear gurgling coming through the aircon inside the car
    Do these things further indicate head gasket, thermostat or blocked hose / radiator?

  1242. Hi I’m considering buying a 1999 Subaru Outback Limited. The sellers claim the car runs but after about 15-20 minutes the car overheats. They say it has a small internal coolant leak, which does not drip outside. I understand this can be the head gasket, but what I’m afraid of is a warped head, resulting in needing a new engine. Is there anything I can look for or something that would indicate that the head is warped other then taking the engine apart? I don’t mind doing a little work but would like to know this before purchasing. I’m not into replacing the engine. The car has 180000… I don’t know if that matters. The only reason I’m considering this car is that its only $1,200 and looks brand new. Thanks, Ron

  1243. hi, i have a 1996 subaru legacy ts-r. Recently it overheated and turned out the radiator hose had a small hole in it. This was replaced. However i have noticed once i turn the car off and leave it overnight, when i return the upper radiator hose, which was replaced has collapsed and become hard – almost as if there is some serious suction going on. Also, when i open the radiator cap there is a suction sound and the coolant disappears into the radiator. When i fill up the radiator is seems to flow straight into the overflow bottle.
    So far the car temperature gauge hasn’t gone above the normal temperature line.
    Could it be thermostat or head gasket?

  1244. Hi Justin,

    Your site has been most helpful, thanks!

    I have a 2004 Forester that the dealership says the head gaskets are leaking and I’ve decided to repair them. Two questions come to mind, is this an immediate repair that I must do now, or will a month make a big difference, and when I do repair it, I’ve read that the timing belt and water pump should also be replaced. Is it that much cheaper to do those now, or wait until it’s recommended at the next 15K interval.

    I’ve never kept a car past 100K but with the economy as it is, I’m not ready to buy a new car right now.

    Thanks!

    Thanks!

  1245. Justin,

    I just wanted to take a minute and say thank you for all of your help both in selling me the right parts to fix my Outback but for all the assistance you gave me over the phone and through many (probably too many) emails. Your willingness to help answer all of my questions before during and after I made my head gaskets repair was a great help. What was the most surprising was that the parts you shipped were all top notch stuff and the repair guide was a super nice to have. Now the repairs still took me a little over two weeks

    When I first started having this problem I almost traded the Subaru in but it has been such a good car it was hard to justify getting rid of it and going deep into debt to go work and the grocery store in a newer version of the same thing I already have. Thanks again for the sound advice and the confidence to fix the thing myself.

    Dave Dubois

  1246. Stepanie,

    Sounds like a possible restricted radiator more than a headgasket or just low coolant level. Unless the headgasket repair was done very poorly you shouldn’t be anywhere close to a second repair of the same thing. I would suggest getting it looked at asap to avoid head gasket damage from the overheating.

    Don’t give up on the Subie, but you may want to make sure you have the right shop doing service. The right or wrong shop can totally change your car owning experience for better or worse.

    Justin

  1247. Hi Cheri,

    Typical prices for head gaskets on a first generation 2.5 l would be $1600.00 to $1800.00. Things to look for are signs of oil and residue in the coolant overflow bottle. You can also smell the coolant overflow bottle and see if it smells like exhaust or fuel. We have ssn the first generation 2.5l go 200k with no failure and replaced gaskets on ones only 60k as well so it’s all over the place as far as longevity goes but what I do alway suggest is to know that it will probably come up at some point in ownership even if its a year or two from now.

    Justin

  1248. Hello Justin,
    Thank you for your dedication to subarus! I must admit, however, that I am so ready to junk my subbie because it is had been one problem after another since I bought i used with 107K miles on it. Anyway, the problem at hand: I have 2000 outback with 145K miles. Had the HGs replaced about 10K ago in the winter. Throughout the winter, the car ran fine, but now that summer temps are climbing, my temp gauge is also climbing again. I live in AZ and the temp gauge seems to be directly related to outside temp, esp. 105+ degrees outside, and driving uphill. The temp gauge is predictable based upon the hill and the outside temp. On the way to work when the air & road are still cool, temp gauge does NOT climb, but on the way home when the road & air are hot, the temp gauge climbs, even slightly above 3/4 mark. A/C run on to & from drive (yes, in AZ in the summer, we have to use the A/C even in the morning).
    Is this a continued HG issue still? Or some other kind of issue? Thanks so much!!!

  1249. And.. how would I know if there are problems with the HG before buying? He’s done all the scheduled maintenance and seems to have taken great car of the car.. and what does that repair generally run?
    This is a great site, I’ll recommend it often! 🙂 Thanks so much for your help

  1250. Hi Justin
    I am considering buying a 1998 Outback with 136K on it, the owner is the original owner and claims to have never had any issues with the HG. I’m concerned… should I be? Does EVERY Subaru in those years have this problem, or are some people lucky? If I buy this car at the asking price, it won’t leave me a lot of extra for repairs.. any adive is greatly appreciated.
    I love Subbee’s, have had 3 but all older models, 92 most recently and they’ve been awesome..
    thanks
    Cheri

  1251. The prices seem ok, the frost plug heater or block heater leaking does need to be addressed, and you can either replace it or remove it and install a coolant plug. The block heater is installed after removing a plug from the engine block at the coolant passages on the driver’s side of the engine. This should save some money if you don’t use the feature.

    From there the end links can be done later as there is no savings in doing those items at the same time as the head gaskets. The water pump & timing belt stuff should all be done. The wheel bearing is a safety item so it does really need to be done. The catalyst benefits the environment more than your cars function so I will leave that entirely up to you.

    Hope that helps some

    Justin

  1252. Hi Justin,

    I’m just following up on a question I posted on May 28. After doing a little car shopping I quickly realized I can’t afford a new car! SO…of all the repairs listed below (suggested by my mechanic), I’m wondering how many of these are really necessary vs. how many of these are just “good to have done.” Particularly re-sealing the engine oil pump, front stabilizer bar end links (I don’t even know what this is) and the engine frost plug heater (I never plug my car in). Here is the list of repairs I was given:

    1. Replace Catalytic Converter $740. 2. Timing belt, Water pump, drive belts $534. 3. Engine oil pump re-seal $155. 4. Front end stabalizer bar end leaks $199 5. Brake system fluid flush $58. 6. Transmission service $78. 7. Engine frost plug heater starting to leak $146. 8. Front wheel bearing $420.00.

    Thank you again for your advice…it is much appreciated!!
    Greta

  1253. Just to add to the evidence, my 2003 Forester is in the shop today at 92,000 miles getting externally leaking HG’s replaced. They’re doing the timing chain while the engine is out so I feel (slightly) less bad. I had had the 30K and 60K services done at the dealer so if they added the secret formula conditioner it did no good for my rig.

  1254. Mike,

    That’s tough to nail a number on, and yes there is no fix in a bottle as you have learned. I would suggest trying to flush out the heater core before I replaced it here as it’s a huge job. Clutch parts can vary by quality but figure $250 to $400. Radiator for an O.E. about $300.00, aftermarket (Chinese made) $200.00 or so. Figure about $178.00 or so for the waterpump, thermostat, gaskets and a bit of time.

    There is also a clutch hydraulic update for that car and other timing components to be inspected as well.

    Justin

  1255. Hi Denise,

    If the car has had good maintenance which if you went 190k on your head gaskets it sounds to me like it has there really should be no issue replacing the head gaskets at that mileage. Is your Mechanic a Subaru guy?

    Justin

  1256. Hey Nick,

    Thanks for the feedback on the site. Really both gaskets should have been done, but under warranty only the left side will be addressed. If a dealer replaces both sides, Subaru may do a warranty audit and the dealership may end up writing Subaru a check. What is pretty silly is that if it is a customer pay situation at most dealerships they will sell both, if it’s on Subaru it’s just the left side. This poses no detriment to the engine, but there is a possibility that A the repairs in the car won’t last, or B the right side could give out in the near term. As far as the 60k no leak and now it leaks thing, I am glad they took care of it but this is exactly why I suggest someone independent of the Dealer service department service the vehicle. A good independent Subaru repair shop would have helped you get the most value out of your warranty as possible.

    Justin

  1257. Hey Justin,
    I have a 1998 Legacy GT 5SPD 126,000 miles and I used a “head gasket fix mixture” once yesterday (type which can be added without removing the antifreeze)(my antifreeze is likely “contaminated” from exhaust interaction)(car has overheated multiple times before – driven short distances after overheating, no water in oil so far, no leaking coolant). I drove the car about 40 miles after adding the “head gasket fix mixture” and then the car overheated again (same problems as others have seen with the exhaust/coolant interaction, usually happens after/during hard acceleration). The radiator hoses were collapsed both into and out of the radiator and relaxed after I opened the radiator cap (negative pressure)(coolant reservoir is full of coolant/ “head gasket repair mixture” (copper particles from mixture seen in coolant). I used just over half the bottle of the “Head Gasket Repair Mixture” as the directions indicated (actually indicated 1/2 bottle). If I have the head gasket work done should I also have the heater core and radiator replaced (potential plugging from the “head gasket repair mixture”) and all associated hoses (plus an extensive flush)? I was also advised by a friend that I should have the clutch replaced since the engine would be out. I know based on the posts that the head gasket job would be around $1600, not including new radiator, heater core, water pump and new clutch (What total cost should I expect from an independent Subaru service provider?). Thanks in advance.

  1258. Hi Justin

    My trusty ’96 Subaru Legacy Outback seems to have a bad head gasket. The mechanic who changed out the thermostat in hopes it was just that said he wouldn’t replace a head gasket on a vehicle with over 190,000 miles on it.
    I love my all wheel drive baby too much to give it up. What do you think?

    Denise

  1259. Hi Justin,
    I agree with everyone else, this is obviously a great website and you have a wealth of Subaru knowledge. I too have encountered a driver-side head gasket problem on my 2003 outback sport at just under 78K nearing 6yrs and the end of its extended warranty. I brought the car in several months ago for its 60K maintenance and to make sure there were no pressing problems as it came off of warranty. On a more recent trip back to the dealership for my brakes, with my warranty just expired (< 1 month), the dealer informed me that the L. head gasket was leaking. Apparently it was not leaking at its 60K check-up, but rather “seeping”, but they never informed me. Needless to say I got them to cover the full price of the repair. Anyway, my question is what good is it to replace only the left side gasket and wait until the R. side to fail at a later date? The dealership refuses to replace both. As well, will two different types of gasket cause any other problems.

  1260. Justin – thanks so much for the (crazy fast) response and suggestions. I’ll be checking into and following them over the next couple days and this weekend. Thanks again.

    Corey

  1261. Hey Corey

    Thanks for the feedback on the website. The AC system is probably low, the 2000 to 2004 Subaru Outback has a tendency to leak at the high side hose from the compressor to the condenser.

    On the Running hot issue, this needs to be closely monitored, once the thermostat has opened the upper and lower radiator hoses will be hot. The level in the overflow bottle should be put to the correct level (in-between the 2 lines) and then monitored. We do see some shops put in cheap Chinese made radiators that have smaller cores and the wrong size automatic transmission coolers that can cause some issues. Having it overheat after the head gaskets were done wasn’t good but not the end of the world. I also would be curious if the thermostat is a Subaru part or cheaper imitation, we also see use of non O.E Subaru thermostats cause problems. Well a few things to look into anyways.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  1262. First off – what an amazing website – Being a Subaru fan, I can’t believe I’m only finding this today.

    Recently, my wife’s 2000 Outback 2.5l has me stumped. In Feb of this year we had the radiator and head-gaskets replaced by a Subaru tech (working at a Mazda dealership). A couple months have gone by and the car overheated one day while idling (highway speeds dropped the temp rapidly to normal) and it was determined to be the radiator not holding pressure.

    Now I have the car back with a new radiator and while it’s not overheating, I notice that the overflow tank is very full, I smell coolant, and both rad hoses are very hot.

    Perhaps unrelated, but the A/C is only truly cool when the car is moving. I have replaced both RC-5008 fan relays and it has not improved either situation. Both fans are on when the A/C is on, but not when it is off – even after 5 minutes in blistering heat. Temp gauge is normal, tank still over-full. Any clues? Thanks so much.

  1263. C Quinn,

    If you need to look for a Subaru specialist, there are a few ways to do this, look into Car talks website under mechanic’s files, look into shops that have solid and many reviews on other online forums. Ask other Subaru owners where they have there car serviced.

    Justin

  1264. Julia,

    There are plenty of things that can be done to make the repairs complete such as the timing belt, water pump and timing belt idlers. This along with inspecting the cooling hoses and replacing as needed.

    It’s hard to say how DIY friendly it is without knowing the contents of the toolbox and the individual’s mechanical ability. What may be really tough for one person may be easy for the next.
    There is a risk to buying a car repaired by a non professional. Just try and be sure they are using good parts at a minimum.

    Justin

  1265. my 2001 subuaru legacy outback has 121,000 miles and is leaking oil and has overheated 1 time and lost coolant….we faced the almost same problem with my husbands 1999 subaru outback 2 yrs ago and opted to buy a new vehicle rather than go for a repair….after reading all this info, i am leaning to repair this time……my question is, where to find a place to repair it in my vicinty….venango county PA…..the local subaru dealer, or the local mechanic here….who has just done 2 subaru head gaskets repairs in last couple of months for same problem.
    how do i find a 4WD specialist mechanic in my neighbourhood?

  1266. Thanks for the great work on this website.
    Just a quick question:
    I am looking to buy a 96 Impreza wagon 2.2L, this is a model without the HG issue correct?

    I will check the VIN with a dealer to see if it the more desirable 2 port exhaust design but if it turns out to be the one port should I pass on it? What years(tow port) would you recommend to be best for the little 2.2L?
    Lastly are the auto trans reliable or should I aim for the manual?
    Thanks
    Ed

  1267. Hi, thank you for all of this helpful information!

    I am looking to buy a 1998 outback wagon (2.5 engine) from a private seller. The head gaskets are blown, and the seller is offering to do the work, as well as replace the water pump, before selling it. The car has 149,000 miles and is a 5-speed.

    Can you offer any opinion on this? What other things should I look for? Is the head gasket repair an ok DIY project?

    Any thoughts would be welcome.
    Thanks!

  1268. Hi Kristen,

    The Independent shop doing a cooling system pressure test as a means to diagnose an internal combustion to coolant leak during cylinder head expansion doesn’t understand the Subaru engine well enough to diagnose and most likely repair it.

    We deal with this a lot which is very unfortunate, I suspect the Independent Shop doesn’t specialize in Subaru repair, a lot of otherwise good independent shops get this wrong all of the time.

    It would be really unwise to spend money to repair the leaking valve covers, and timing belt (all which have to come off to replace the head gaskets) only to have to repair the head gaskets in the near future.

    The 250ppm of Hydrocarbons is truly a high reading actually to high as the 2.5l doesn’t typically run at those levels out of the tailpipe and if it is accurate I don’t think it will take too long before it starts to show more signs of failure.

    I hate saying this but I think a third opinion is in order but I would encourage you seek out an Independent Subaru Expert in you area, have a lengthy talk about your concerns prior to scheduling an appointment.

    The hoses are a grey area and not a huge expense my biggest concern is that if you spend all of this money around the head gasket repair only to have the head gaskets fail even a year later it will have been like lighting a match to the money you spent on the timing belt and valve cover gaskets.

    The wheel bearing is a safety issue and you may want to take care of this while you are deciding on the rest. also the longer you drive on a failed wheel bearing the better chance you will have of needing to replace the hub.

    I hope this helps!

    Justin

  1269. Hello Amy,

    It’s hard to say without knowing what condition the cars are in but we do suggest repairing the head gaskets as soon as possible on the first Gen 2.5l(the 1999 Outback) as these can go from a minor problem to overeating very quickly in some cases. It’s generally ok on the 2nd Gen 2.5l to monitor it for external leaks and repair as needed.

    This is what I would say is typical but in some cases the 2nd Gen 2.5l can have internal head gaskets issues as well that can lead to overheating.

    I would seek out a good Independent Subaru Shop in your part of town and ask there opinion about what stage of failure they may be in if at all.

    Justin

  1270. Hello Clare,

    The Forester is covered by Subaru’s 5 year 60k warranty unless you purchased an extended warranty.

    I can’t tell if your vehicle will develop a head gasket issue or not by running the VIN # but I would encourage you to keep up on your foresters maintenance and you should be ok.

    Justin

  1271. Hi Justin

    Thanks so much for this site. Wish I lived in Seattle!

    I took my 1999 Subaru Outback to a dealer on Saturday for the 90,000 service. (My car has probably over 100000 miles on it. I am not sure exactly because the odometer has been broken for about three years) They said that I need to replace the head gaskets and that they measured the hydrocarbons at around 250 parts per million. I also have a loose wheel bearing and was quoted 3100-3500, depending on whether the wheel bearing hub needed replaced. The service would include replacing the timing belt and some coolant hoses which they said had some internal cracking.

    I was unsure about whether to do all this or consider a new car (which I can’t afford without wiping out my savings) and so I started looking on-line and found you site. After thinking about it and looking at yours and other sites on the web, I decided that the repairs were worth it, but decided to get a second opinion/estimate.

    I took it to an independent shop today and they could not find a problem with the head gaskets. They didn’t find any hydrocarbons in the cooling system and said they did a pressure test on the coolent system which came out fine. They recommend replacing the wheel bearing and hub and replacing the valve cover gaskets which are leaking. They also recommended changing the timing belt, including the water pump and thermostat, which makes sense to me. They didn’t mention any problems with the coolent hoses.

    Now, I am very confused and don’t know who to believe. I know that someone could have made a mistake or was not honest, but I am also wondering if the 2nd shop may not have found the head gasket problem because part of the 90,000 mile service included flushing the coolent system. They don’t seem to think so because of the pressure test.

    What is the best way to determine whether there is a head gasket problem? Is it the hydrocarbons or a pressure test? Should I wait until I have driven it longer since the coolent system flush and take it back again?

    This car has not overheated and the shop today did not find any loss of coolent (it has been a week in between visits)

    Do I need to get a third opinion? These cost money that I could be spending towards repairs.

    Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated. I don’t know much about cars.

  1272. I’m looking for a used car for our teenage children who like to ski. I think a used Subaru would be great for them. There are a couple of Outbacks on Craigslist which I’m looking at. One is a 1999 with 103,000 miles and the other a 2000 with 90,000 miles. If I bought a used Subaru of this vintage, would it be a good idea to just go ahead and have the HG changed as preventative maintenance or wait until something goes wrong. I’m worried that the teenage drivers might not recognize the early signs of this HG problem. About how much does the HG job cost and how does one go about finding a qualified mechanic to do the job?

  1273. Hi.

    I have a 2005 Forrester, and as of yet have had little problems with it. A friend of mine said that I could send you my vehichles vin # and you could discern whether or not my car was liable to develop the head gasket problem later in life…
    I would like to know if it was in that percentile, if it could be figured out that way.
    Any insight you might have would be helpful.
    Thank you.

  1274. Hello Doug,

    This is a tough call as I suspect the quality of work that was done wasn’t all that great if it is a problem already two years later, I will also say that junking the whole engine due to gasket failure is probably not the best idea either. If a Cylinder head is warped it can be corrected, if the block is faulty then no it can’t and maybe look for an engine then. Any used engine you buy is going to need all the same things done to it that your current engine does anyways. I would suggest having yours repaired properly unless a problem is found during the teardown process.

    Justin

  1275. Harry,

    With the staining in the overflow there is a good chance you are at the beginning of a head gasket issue. Sometimes the smell of exhaust can take awhile to show up. A compression test won’t really reveal an issue especially since expansion from temperature is part of the problem and a cylinder leaking test would be the test to perform anyways but again it really needs to be done as the head is expanding to be accurate.

    Justin

  1276. Greta,

    Most of the things you have mentioned are pretty typical and the prices seem about right.

    To the new car thing, if you want a new car as a result of your current car no longer meeting your needs or even just because you want a new car I am sure you deserve one. But in the coming years there will be better choices out there in regards to fuel economy and possible alternate fuel types. You may want to wait for those to come out but you are in a better position than I am in regards to your ability to buy a new car now and look at the alternatives in a few years as well, that is if that is anything that interests you.

    Justin

  1277. Can’t thank you guys enough. Great site, awesome info. I been pullin my hair out trying to figure out what was wrong with my 99 ob.Pretty sure now so maybe ill sleep tonight without playing the “what the heck can it be….” game. Keep up the good work fellas.

  1278. By the way – in that 4 year time period we have kept up-to-date on all the normal services, oil changes, tune-ups, etc.

    Doug

  1279. Justin,

    I have a 99 Legacy Outback, I bought used with 109,000 miles. We moved across country and it overheated along the way, a dealer did the HG’s, water pump, timing belt, etc. and most of it was covered by Subaru since I purchased it from a dealer and it was just a week later we had the problems. But, two years later we had more work on the HG’s and now, two years later, it is back in the shop with two blown head gaskets. We are in Aberdeen, WA and the local shop, who seem to know about Subarus, have found a used ’98 engine they can replace ours with for minimum $4500. Otherwise they said they could do the HG work again, but they don’t recommend it give the fact that this is the third time we have had it in for this same problem since we bought it. Do you think putting in a ’98 engine for that much would make sense, doing the HG’s again and hoping for the best or should we count our losses and buy a whole new vehicle? The body and such is in perfect condition.

    Thanks for all you input on the website.

    Doug

  1280. Justin,

    Thanks for the web site, very informative and useful. I both respect and appreciate what you do.

    I’ve driven many Subaru’s and they have been solid. I recently bought a 2002 Forester at 102k, knowing it may have head gasket problems. I am not one hundred percent sure if it’s the head gasket and so I must request your expertise.

    She stated the head gaskets “may” have been done or the conditioner added, she is not really sure. The car has a new radiator, and I suspect a new thermostat. The first time I started it up, I ran it for a half hour and it ran with the temp gage at about a steady half. I must note the coolant reservoir was on the low side and the radiator was a little low as well.

    The second time I drove it about 10 miles and when I stopped at idle it creped up to 3/4. However when I reved the engine at around 4k, it dropped back to half. So I grabbed a couple gallons of water for the road (just in case) and gave her a quick once over and left for home, about 220 miles. It ran a little cooler on the way home, about 1/3.

    I stopped about half way home to give it a once over and found the over flow to be full and foamy. The temp started to creep up again to about 5/8. I continued to drive and it came back down. About 10 miles from my house, it spiked and got hot, but not in the red. I pulled over and the overflow was full. I waited a few minutes and opened the radiator. It was low. I poured in about 3 quarts of water and the temp came down quick, so I drove it home. I drove it all weekend and it seemed ok, but I didn’t go any further than 3 miles from my house.

    Do you think this could be the head gasket? It runs slightly rough, sometimes. I haven’t noticed any white exhaust, yet. I also haven’t done a compression test yet. The oil is clear. The coolant is new and so it’s hard to tell if it is contaminated, yet. It looks rather clean, but I’m sure it was just replaced. Would the exhaust smell be obvious in the coolant? There appears to be some slight brown staining on the walls of the overflow.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I wouldn’t want to attempt doing these head gaskets, only to find out I was wrong.

    Thanks,
    Harry

  1281. Hi Justin,

    I came across your website last night and I was impressed by your knowledge of Subarus. What a great resource…thank you!

    Now, on to my dilema. I have a 2002 Outback Limited wagon with 129,000 miles (I have owned the car for 60,000 miles). I have owned the car for four years. During that time I have paid for two sets of tires, replaced the breaks three times and rotors twice, fixed a large rust spot and just spent $500 on a tune up. I still owe $3000 on the car and my mechanic just gave me a grocery list of repairs including:
    1. Replace Catalytic Converter $740. 2. Timing belt, Water pump, drive belts $534. 3. Engine oil pump re-seal $155. 4. Front end stabalizer bar end leaks $199 5. Brake system fluid flush $58. 6. Transmission service $78. 7. Engine frost plug heater starting to leak $146. 8. Front wheel bearing $420.00.

    I have spent about $1500 in the last few months and now they are saying I need to spend another $2300 with all of the work listed above. Is it time to sell? If I keep it does all of this work really need to be done to keep the thing running? I have not done the timing belt so I know I would need to replace that for sure if we decide to keep it. My mechanic is interested in buying my car so I’m not sure if he is just giving me this grocery list to knock the price down. I have always trusted him so I don’t think that is the case but this just seems excessive. This is our third Subaru and we have never had issues like this before (my husband has 230,000 miles on his 96 Outback wagon). I’m wondering if I should just take advandtage of the deals they are having on the 09 Subarus due to the new style coming out in a month. Help!! I would love to hear your advice!
    Thanks, Greta

  1282. Claudia,

    Recalls are more about safety, then fluid leaks, and there isn’t a recall for the head gaskets only a campaign pertaining to certain Subaru years and models.

    You can always call SOA (the number in your owner’s manual) if you have service records you get some participation.

    Justin

  1283. Lori,

    As too the 03 to 06 models. We see 03, and 04 for external head gasket leaks but not at the same rate the 1999 to 2002 came in.

    2005 and 2006 seem to be ok at this point.

    The biggest con is the money spent in purchase price in my opinion and keep in mind the newer the car the more there is to go wrong especially with the emissions control systems. Biggest pro is ownership costs should be low for the next couple of years but you are just really paying for it in a higher purchase price.

    Justin

  1284. Lori,

    My advice is to buy the car that needs the work done especially blown head gaskets, as long as the repairs that are needed are reflected as a discount in the price to purchase, establish a good relationship with a good Independent Subaru shop, then have the repairs done. You will then have a used car with a partial warranty. Meaning that any good Subaru shop will honor repair warranties for a minimum of 1 year or 12k, this doesn’t mean the whole car is under warranty but you will have addressed the typical Subaru issue and should have relatively trouble free ownership going forward. A lot of times drivers will dump their good car based on the emotion of it needing repairs rather than think the actual cost of repair versus replacement costs, and this can be an excellent time to take advantage of a good deal on a used car that needs work. Now if you don’t have or can’t really find a good Subaru shop in your area then my advice above won’t really work out.

    Pretty much if you are looking at the era Subaru you have mentioned it will probably need some repairs even if it isn’t right after purchase.

    Justin

  1285. Clay,

    It’s always my advice to replace both sides.

    I am a bit confused by the water pump splatter thing. The left side head gasket will typically leak out coolant and oil externally, and the right side oil.

    Justin

  1286. I have a 2003 Subaru Forester and I was advised today that I have a head gasket problem and that it would take approximately $1300 to fix. Is this a recall issue that should be fixed by the mfg?

  1287. I’m looking for a good used Forester. I live in the Sierra Nevada mountains, and I’ve had Subarus since 1987 and love them. I’ve had 3 different manual transmission Foresters checked by independent mechanics, two 1998s, one of which needed a rack-in-pinyon (quoted approx. $900), and the other the infamous head gasket (quoted $2500). The third was a 2001 (through an auto broker), and when the mechanic checked it, there was NO OIL IN THE ENGINE! I declined to purchase all 3 vehicles. What is your feeling on years 2003 – 2006? What do you see as the pros and cons of each? I really appreciate your help. Thank you!

  1288. Justin,

    I took my 03 Baja in to a dealer service for a oil change and they took me under the car and showed me what they at first said was an oil leak on one side and coolant on the other, both they attributed to head-gasket leaks.

    It had been about a quart low on oil before I brought it in and only JUST passed 100k miles a couple weeks ago, with regular changes aside from one or two 5k lapses. Never overheated and I never detected any strange smell, so I’m hoping I caught it in time. I left it there as the leaks were covered under my Carmax warranty, and they mentioned they would use overlapping labor to change the timing belt/drive belt (drive belt had some chunks out of it and it seemed a bad idea to risk it to drive).

    I thought I’d caught it just in time and got a good deal (since it saved me on timing belt replacement cost) but the next day they called back to say it was only the left head gasket that leaked and the coolant had been splatter from the water pump (which they are now replacing). Would this splatter compromise the right head gasket seal?

    They are saying it is cheaper now to replace the right head-gasket ($600 now opposed to $1400 later). Since they say it hadn’t obviously failed, I don’t suppose I can get SOA to participate in its replacement? Is it fine to replace the gasket on just one side or can expect it to fail soon down the line?

    Can opening it compromise the factory seal if it isn’t leaking (so they say now). Maybe I can wrangle the water pump hose into it since it pump was bad.

    Also I am requesting they do this work with the engine removed, but not sure if they will play nice about that.

    Your site provides a valuable service in a sometimes confusing industry. Thank you for any insight you can provide!

  1289. BB,

    It’s a great way to go in my opinion, buying a car that needs work, having that work done and having a portion of your used car under warranty!

    A good shop will warranty the repairs they make for at least one year, granted the whole car won’t be under warranty but it will be better than buying a car with no warranty at all.

    Justin

  1290. Hello Jo,
    The worth it thing is always hard to try and explain, but $2,200 is far less than you will spend buying another car. If you like the car I would suggest fixing it, but only if you like the car and it suits your needs. Here is the situation we are in right now, new types of cars will be rolling out in the next couple of years, wait for someone else to work out the bugs with the first models and buy one of these cars in a few years. I am not a big fan of most cars that are being produced right now it’s just the newer version of what you already own. Cars are a tool not an asset there is truly no way to look at repair value versus vehicle value; I would encourage you to think about which impacts your bank account more.

    The 01 will typically leak out fluid externally from the head gaskets rather than fail internally and cause an overheating situation, we have seen plenty of 2nd generation fail internally as well but the typical thing is an external leak of oil and coolant from the left side gasket especially.

    It’s always worth a call to SOA, but your VIN # will dictate coverage under the WWP-99 campaign.

    It’s common to question the whole car when one system has failed, but all cars need work at some point, every line has their issues. There is no guarantee your car won’t need something else in the future and I have no idea the condition of the Transmission fluid or how often the fluid was changed (due of every 30k).

  1291. I have a chance to buy a 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback wagon with 185k for $2500. The interior is almost perfect and aside from a good sized dent in the passenger door the body is in fantastic shape for a 10 year old car.

    Now the trouble list.
    1. On the test drive the speedometer is working only occasionally. On a 10 mile test drive it only registered 2 miles.
    2.There is oil visible on top of the engine on the passenger side.
    3.The overflow bottle has a pretty good build up of dark oily looking and feeling sludge built up in it right to the top.
    4. Parking brake doesn’t work
    5. Clutch pedal sticks so you have to occasionally pop it back up with your foot.
    6. Right channels in the stereo don’t work
    7. Needs tires

    My local shop can replace the: head gasket, valve cover gaskets, timing belt, water pump, change the transmission fluid, change the coolant, oil change, lube clutch pedal, and fix parking brake for about $2100. Replacing the speedometer will run about $300. $2400 (not including tires and fixing the stereo) seems like a lot to put into a vehicle with mileage this high. Especially when the next major failure e.g. clutch might be right around the corner. I’m also concerned that with the speedo on the fritz the actual miles could be much higher and if the head gasket is bad (which the sludge points to) there is no telling how long it has been or if the engine has been overheated.

    I like the car but it seems more like a project, and potentially a very expensive one, than a reliable vehicle.

    Any thoughts?

  1292. I have a 2001 Forester S with 95,000 miles. I was recently told that the head gasket was leaking and had to be replaced. The total bill, including some additional items (i.e., timing belt, water pump) I was told should be replaced at the same time, is $2,200! I was told a few months ago that there was a leak, but a second mechanic said it was not a problem, just typical of a vehicle this age/mileage.

    I started doing research on the web and found a LOT of info on Subarus and head gasket problems. First of all, I never received the notice from SOA telling about this problem and the extended 8 year/100,000 mile warranty. I took delivery of the car in Sept. 2000 so it is now past the 8 year mark.

    The other odd thing is that I have not had any of the problems mentioned here or on other sites; no overheating, loss of fluids, etc. The only thing I have noticed is a burning smell when I turn the car off. The car has been very well maintained and runs fine as it always has!

    My question is, where do I go from here? Should I approach the dealer or SOA about warranty coverage,even though the car is 8 months past the 8 years? If they will not cover it, is it worth it to spend this much money on the car? I am concerned that if I do, this could be the beginning of a number of major repairs (such as transmission), and maybe I would be bette off getting a new car.
    Thank you so much for this website and your help!

  1293. Hello Jen,

    As long as it’s just an oil leak you should have some time. It’s always worth a call since the mileage is so low. If it is leaking coolant have it done soon.

    We have seen more and more issues with the 03 and 04 but still mostly oil and not coolant.

    Justin

  1294. Hi Justin,

    Thanks so much for your site! I really appreciate the empowering knowledge!

    I have an 04 Legacy Outback wagon with 67k that I just took to my local dealer for an annual inspection. Even though I haven’t noticed any engine problems or excess oil usage, I was informed the head gaskets are leaking oil and the oil pump needs to be resealed (estimated cost $1800-2000).

    Is this looking to be a common problem for the 04’s now, or am I just unlucky? I looked at the warranty and it’s like a cruel joke (60k/5yr) since I just missed both mileage and year cutoffs by a painfully small amount. Do you think it’s worthwhile to contact SOA?

    I can’t afford these repairs right now. In your opinion, what are the risks for having to “let this issue go” for a few months?

    Thanks so much for your help,

    Jen

  1295. Hey Mike,

    On a Subaru, the Standard transmission employs what is called a viscous coupler that engages the AWD system, the transmission fluid flows through the entire transmission assembly so if there is a gear or syncro problem any debris being generated could travel throughout the entire gear box and could take a repair and turn it into a full rebuild.

    You are probably already at risk for debris being in some of the bearings. There are some in there that can really start to add up.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  1296. Dead-on great site! I have a question unrelated to head gaskets, but first my HG experience: blown gaskets (both) at 93k, on a 2002 2.5i. Resulted in a cracked block one weak after HG replacement. Dealer dropped a new short block in after getting Subaru USA to cover it under warranty. I was impressed by them – I’m impressed by your site as well.

    45,000 miles later I have a compeltely different problem. I have had some leakage from the front transfer case. Noise from the case, no squeals or bangs, just steady scraping. Metal has been found in the transfer case oil. Only symptom so far is car gently slips out of 4th gear if I come off the gas, especially coming off the gas while going uphill. I can easily keep 4th gear fully engaged by keeping my hand on the (standard) shifter. What will happen if, rather than replacing the transfer case (I assume the problem IS there), I simply keep regularly changing out the oil in the transfer case. I’m thinking that if I change the oil often enough, I’ll get the remaining metal bits out, compensate for the seal leak, and can happily drive along with my hand on the stick to compensate for fourth gear potential disengagement (really no pressure to keep the gear engaged, and it is fully engaged). Or, am I just dreaming and setting myself up for more trouble with the transmission box?

  1297. H, Margaret

    If SOA participates you will most likely have to have the repairs done at the Dealer. But inquire about the engine coming out for the repairs. Which ever way it works out, while it is apart have the timing belt, tensioner, idlers and water pump done if they are needed or as preventative maintenance to keep forward going ownership costs down.

    Thanks for the kind words about our Website

    Justin

  1298. Hi Jason,

    What an incredibly helpful service you provide! Just spent over an hour reading it from start to finish and you are an angel!

    So here’s the story. I have a 2002 Subaru Outback with 54+ thousand miles and just found that I need head gasket job for $2100 at Subaru Service Center in Albany, CA. It is not on the list of VINs for 8 yr. warranty coverage but I am waiting on SOA to call me back as I am definitely going to push for free labor with only 54,000 miles on the car. Do you think I should ask for the money to spend at Art’s Automotive which is a great shop nearby (though more expensive because they do all the things you mention at the same time) or just let the mechanic at the Dealer do it? He seemed very good, mature and articulate and encouraged me to see if SOA would help given the mileage. And I am willing to pay extra and ask him to add on the timing belt, water pump and coolant hoses you suggest.

    Thanks so muchfor any help you can offer. Keep up the great service.

  1299. Looking for a Sub,

    The gasket for the 05i is the part number 633 which here and there does seem to fail, its same gasket that is in the 04i.

    So no major changes in gasket design, but better knowledge of maintenance requirements has at this point seemed to have made a difference as well as a little more precision in the combustion process keeping temperatures more consistent.

    Here is what I can say for sure, I can count on one hand the number of 60k plus 05’s we have seen with external coolant leaks at this time, where by the time the 00 to 02 had 60k we were seeing multiple issues every week it seemed.

    There has been an improvement in longevity for sure but I cant say it will never happen.

    Justin

  1300. Wow, great site. I had a outback a while back (2000) but had to sell it after the dot com bust. I always like the subie and am thinking of getting a used one. I’m thinking of a 2005+ since you mentioned they seem better then the 2000-2004. I know you mentioned you’ve seen less gasket problems in the late model engines, but do you know if they actually changed anything that would have made the engines more reliable? Thanks and too bad I’m down in california or I’d go to your shop for all my repairs.

  1301. Its a 2004 Impreza TS.

    The car making a strange pinging/knocking noise when cold. Dealer replaced piston set (Part# 12006AC920) on left side – excessively worn skirt, believe it was related to the gasket leaking oil on the same side (left). The cylinder bore etc seemed fine.

  1302. Thanks Justin! I’ve requested a quote. I don’t want to have to do this again any time soon, thus the question.

  1303. GM,

    The piston thing is a bit of a puzzle , that isn’t all that common on a 2005, but there are always exceptions, did you have a knocking or slapping type of a noise?

    Justin

  1304. I have a 1998 Subaru Legacy Outback 2.5L that needs a head gasket. I was wondering if you knew anything about the Felpro Permatorque MLS head gasket? Would this be a good gasket to use, or is there a better one?

  1305. My 2004 Impreza TS needed Gasket and Pistons replaced at under 45K Miles. It was just above 5 Years, but Subaru graciously agreed to do the work for a 100$ deductible.

    This is my first car where the Pistons wore out before the brake pads (.. and brake pads are designed to wear out!)

    Considering the number of cars at the dealership having similar issues, this almost seems like a regular maintenance item for Subaru’s.

  1306. I have a 2005 Outback with 78K miles. It died two days ago and had to be towed. The Wilde dealership in Waukesha WI said there is a blown cyldiner head and it’s going to cost $3000. This should not happen at this mileage. Any suggestions how to approach this situation?
    Thanks,
    Becky

  1307. I have a ’97 Subaru and was having overheating problems. The explanation in this site was exactly the same problems I had. Intermitent overheating, bubbles in the coolant reservoir, no white smoke in exhaust. Hard to diagnose. Looked for air gap bleeder valve but there are none. Started with thermostat, then radiator, then another after the mechanic put the wrong one on (early vs late 97), then water pump. What a crock!!! I drove it every day for three weeks without it overheating and them BAM it overheated again. Had lots of opinions up to replaceing the engine to the tune of $5200! Fthat! Found this explanation and had the head gaskets replaced. One month now and no further problems! The head gasket failed allowing hot gasses to escape into coolant chamber but no coolant back into combustion chamber.

  1308. Hi Dan,

    Here are some realistic prices to pay:

    Valve cover gaskets including plug well seals, valve cover gaskets, bolt seals and an oil filler tube o-ring = $289.00 (our shop) dealer will be higher figure 15% to 20% higher.

    Wires $67.99

    Plugs $16.98

    They could add an hour’s labor to do the plugs and wires if they wanted but still it would be under $1000.00

    I hope this helps

    Justin

  1309. Hi Justin –

    I had a visit at my Subaru dealer service center this afternoon to schedule the headgasket work, but to also talk with the service manager & fill him in on that I planned to contact SOA about my situation. I figured there wouldn’t be anything he/service could do as my Outback is out of warranty, that only SOA could do something, but because I do have a good relationship with them, I wanted to give them a heads up out of courtesy.

    As we spoke he went on line and clicked through my records. He knew I was/am a regular customer, but I don’t think he really knew the extent until he flipped through my 8 yrs of maintenance & service. He said “you have an impeccable service record, starting from your 1500 mi oil change.” He also agreed that I had done everything possible to prevent this from happening, and you could see his suprise at my situation.

    He asked me how much I was quoted & I said $2200. He said that was correct and offered, “what if you don’t make any calls & I take off half the cost right up front. I have a good relationship with the SOA regional rep & I will work on your behalf to get SOA to cover half of the expense”.

    I accepted his offer, as I believe it is a fair one, considering the miles I have on the car. It was also nice to be heard and to be acknowledged. And the time & effort he will save me by doing the legwork with SOA is worth the half I will have to pay.

    I know my frustration came out in my last posting, so I feel it is only fair that I post the other, more positive, side of the story as well.

    Thank you for an excellent website, which has not only enabled me to expand my working knowledge about my Outback, but about cars in general.
    Dianne

  1310. Justin,

    First, thanks so much for this website. The information presented here is excellent.

    This morning, I took my 2002 Subaru Outback with 76,000 miles for a simple $30 oil change. 45 minutes later, the service advisor came back and said there is internal leakage through the tube seals. To fix the problem, he recommended new valve cover gaskets, tube seals, spark plugs, and spark plug wires for $1,000. Needless to say, I was floored, both at the price and the fact that there is nothing visibly wrong with the car (we just took it on a trip…no problems at all).

    Am I being scammed, or should I move forward with this repair?

    Thanks,

    Dan

  1311. Thank you, Justin.

    Yes, it is extremely frustrating. And yes, all maintenance & repairs were thru the Subaru Dealer service, and they did cover the first headgasket replacement at 54K under warranty. They also covered the WWP-99 recall work that was supposed to prevent and/or fix the problem at 24K, which it obviously did not since I still had the coolant leak at 54K.

    Very shortly after I brought my car in for the 150K service, I noticed (mostly when really cold) that if I let the car warm up, when I got into it I smelled gas or engine in the car. As soon as I drove, it went away. I don’t have any signs of leakage, and they gave me all green circles on the nice little inspection checklist. My car has never overheated, I’ve never had any signs of engine or electrical problems, and I replaced the battery at 4 & 8 years (no corrosion).

    So when I brought it in for its last oil change I asked them to check on the smell, thinking I had a line with a leak or something was messed up from the 150K work. Needing ANOTHER head gasket replacement was the last thing I thought the problem was. After all, it’s not like replacing the head gasket is a regular maintenance item – if so, it would be listed in their maintenance manual along with other long distance, high cost items like the timing belt. No one in their right mind would buy a car with “replace head gasket at 100K” (the extended warranty from SOA for this problem) listed in its service maintenance guide!

    When I bought my Outback, I sold my Mazda with almost 160K miles – I never needed to replace a headgasket. My brother inherited my Honda when I bought my Mazda and he put almost 300K miles on the Honda – never replaced a headgasket. Another brother had a Mazda pickup with well over 300K miles and never replaced a headgasket. My dad even had older American vehicles (believe it or not!) that lasted over 200K with never needing a headgasket replacement. So there is history with taking care of cars so they last…..

    My point: In my opinion cars are built (especially with today’s technology) to last over 300K if properly taken care of and not abused. And one would think spending the extra money for dealer service to ensure that proper maintenance and repair would provide extra protection for the vehicle to last as long as you want. However, nothing can protect against a lemon.

    Or the fact that Subaru has a major problem/flaw with its engine design or its physical functionality or both. I wouldn’t consider a headgasket a maintenance item if the engine/block is of solid, functional design and physically intact. Seems like their “horizontally opposed engine” doesn’t meet that criteria and there-in really lies the problem. As such, the potential car buyer should be told if you don’t keep your coolant & oil in excellent condition, be prepared to have to replace your headgasket at 100K. What, I did that, and I still am looking at TWO head gasket replacements in under 160K miles! So seems like they SHOULD have a maintenance line item to replace the head gasket at 100K due to their engine design.

    I’ve spent a lot of time on the internet and cannot believe all the problems with Subaru engines & head gaskets. I WAS going to get another Outback to replace this one, but after having a better understanding of what the problem is from an engine design perspective, I will go with another AWD vehicle.

    Thanks. Dianne

  1312. Hi Dianne,

    Sounds frustrating!

    By Subaru Service do you mean the Subaru Dealer service department?

    It’s hard to say but I am a bit confused how you went from no leaks in January to needing repairs in April?

    I don’t really think there is much SOA is going to offer you at this point as it is well out of warranty.

    I hope at least the repairs at 54k were done at n/c

    Justin

    Part of the reason we sourced out something other then the gaskets made by Subaru is we were a little worried about the longevity of the Subaru updated gasket.

  1313. I am interested in buying a 1996 Subaru its got a blown head gasket on the passenger side! and some body damage on the drivers side. But its only 600 and I am pretty good with cars replaced a few engines mostly in muscle cars though. I suppose my question is how hard is it to replace the head gasket! I have all the tools I need. does the engine need to be taken out or can the head gasket be replaced while its still in the car? the car has 160k on it and I dont think it was ran very long after it over heated!
    Thanks for all the advice on the web sight!

  1314. Matt,

    I generally suggest repairing it as soon as you can budget for it.

    It starts out like you have mentioned and usually will get worse and sometimes with out much warning. Waiting can cost more if it overheats and the head become warped. You are most likely a long way from this but that is the argument for being preventative with the repairs done early.

    Justin

  1315. Jason,

    I am at a disadvantage as far as other possible needs, but I will try and explain my stance on worth and value in repairs. If the vehicle meets your needs now and for the foreseeable future I would encourage you to fix and maintain what you currently have. Any money spent on the Forester will be less money than any new or newer used car will depreciate in the same 3 to 5 year time horizon.

    If there are no transmission symptoms now and the transmission has been maintained it should be ok.

    Justin

  1316. Hi Justin –

    Thank you for an extremely informative site. Your comment “We have yet to see a repaired and properly maintained vehicle have the same problem twice. And we feel that when the repair is done completely, it is a bump in the road to 300K miles” caught my attention, as unfortunately I have that problem.

    I have a 2.5 liter 2001 Subaru Outback that had the headgasket replaced, by Subaru Service, at about 54K miles. For the 8 years I have owned this vehicle I have brought it into Subaru Service for ALL maintenance and repair according to the Subaru schedule, including regular oil changes at about every 3K-3.5K miles. Even though the guys at Subaru Service know me during my 8 years of maintenance & repair, SOA can also check my VIN number in their files for verification. I am now at 158K miles, and during my last trip there, they are telling me I need to have the head gasket replaced – again!! I have never had any major engine problems, as some of the people have been writing to you about(no overheating, doesn’t burn oil, etc)have had. I had the 150K maintenance done by Subaru Service back in Jan 09 and nothing was said. I feel that I have done everything a consumer can do to maintain a car to last well into the 300K mile range. I believe that there must either have been a problem in the work that Subaru did in the first headgasket repair, or that there must be a severe defect in my engine to have to replace this a second time, and that this is more than a maintenance issue that I could have prevented. And as such, I feel that SOA should be picking up the tab for this repair, not me. Do you think I have a leg to stand on or am I going to be out of luck and have to cough up the 2K to have it replaced? Thanks for your advise. Dianne

  1317. I’m thinking about purchasing a 1996 Subaru Outback. with 220k miles on it(says mainly highway miles). asking price is 1250. anyone think this is a good deal? what shoud i be looking for? i need the car to last 2-3yrs. looks like its been well kept, from pictures. but, haven’t been out to drive it yet. is it a waste of time? thanks

  1318. Hi, I have a 1994 Subaru TSR non turbo. Recently it has over heated a few times. When idleing it would make a loud rattle and shake then stop, when checking the overflow it was full, but the radiator would be empty, or full of hot air. It would need a few litres of water to refill. This has happened a few times, but other times it would last for days with no water loss?

    Another symptom is loss of RPM when taking my foot off the accellerator, it simply drops right down then bounces up slightly and only occasionally holds rpm with out the pedal down. The check engine light is on.

    I took it to a mechanic who replaced the thermostat, and fixed a crack in the radiator side tank (probably caused by the overheating I suspect)as well as cleaned the radiator as it was half blocked. I now have it back but it still seems to lose rpm like before? I havn’t run it long enough to know if it will overheat again but I don’t feel confident…

    Water does’nt seem oily.

    Thoughts…? Jarrad.

  1319. Justin,

    I have a 2002 Legacy L sedan with 73k miles on it. I was informed yesterday that there is a very small oil leak coming from the left head gasket. The mechanic told me that I should just keep an eye on it for now. He said that as long as I don’t start losing obscene amounts of oil or coolant, it is possible to keep driving it until around 100k when the timing belt and everything need replaced anyway. I generally trust the opinion of this mechanic, but I am not so sure about waiting on the repair. I don’t want to make an easy fix a hard fix by screwing things up worse. (even though I would rather wait to shell out $1500) Any thoughts?

  1320. I have a 99 Subaru Forester (2.5L H4, non-turbo) that needs the head gasket replaced. I’m getting quotes for $1600-2500 in Charlottesville, VA. I like the car a lot but I’m worried that after paying for that repair something else might go (transmission?) or that the overheating that happened before we realized the head gasket was leaking might have caused unfixable damage.

    So … question: Is replacing the head gasket always worth it? Can I probably expect no other major repairs?

    BTW, fantastic website!

  1321. Hey Stu,

    So far on the H6 we have seen oil leaks on neglected cars and replaced some timing chain guides.

    The H6 is a much more complicated engine
    and I do not suggest someone who isn’t very very familiar with Subaru make any repairs, the timing cover alone is a extremely complicated task.

    It’s possible to have a head gasket issue, but not common.

    Justin

  1322. I own a 03 Outback w the H6 3.0 in it. I have replaced the radiator and thermostat and heater core over the last 3 months. I am still overheating. My mechanic says it could be head gasket. I have 130k on it and i would like to know what you have scene happen with the v6. I read through all of these and see no mention of the v6. I loved this car before all of these problems. I still owe money on this vehicle and would love a new one but i know i’ll get raped trying to trade it in. what should i do? what would be a good rate on the head gasket? Very few people seem to hadve a lot of knowledge of the H6. Im scared to have the work done improperly.

  1323. Bryan,

    The right side gasket will typically leak oil. Watch out for the left side gasket leaking. (Well left side in a Subaru)

    The right side will seep and leak out oil for a while before the coolant fed portion of the gasket will fail.

  1324. Hey James,

    It’s really hard to say, the H4 can be challenging to check the oil on sometimes and you really need to be patient why waiting for all of the oil to drain back down into the pan.

    Sometimes an over filled engine can push oil past seals.

    But most likely the gaskets are getting worse.

    Justin

  1325. Greetings
    I own a 87 VW Vanagon that Small Car in Tacoma WA installed 2001 2.5 Subaru engine for me a year ago. There has been a oil leak behind the oil filter along the seam of the head and the block. The oil leak has been there for over 30,000 Km (20,000 miles).
    The only problem I see is that I have a drop or two on the garage floor after I drive the Van.
    There is no oil in the coolent and I am not losing any coolant.
    Can I have an oil leak from the headgasket without having the danger of blowning the head gasket.
    Thanks
    Bryan

  1326. Hi there. I’ve got a 2000 Outback 4cyl. I bought it in early 2008 with 115K miles from a guy with extensive records. I now have 132K miles. I had a SOA pre-purchase inspection and they told me the head gaskets were “seeping” (as opposed to leaking) when I got it. I didn’t do anything about getting them replaced at the time because they quoted me ~$1800 and didn’t suggest it was urgent. I’ve never had trouble with oil on the driveway.

    Last time I got the oil changed, they told me I was a quart low. I’m about due for a change now and went on a 350-mile (round) trip this weekend. I swear it was a quart low before I left, so I added filled it up, but I look at it now and it looks like it might be almost 1/2 quart overfilled. I could have sworn it needed the whole quart!

    Anyway, when we got home, I smelled what I thought was burning oil, but to be honest, I couldn’t tell you the difference between anti-freeze and oil with my nose–only eyes.

    I got the 120K mile service on time, which included a coolant flush. Coolant looks bright green and opaque in the overflow container.

    Would a 1/2 quart oil overfill be the cause of my smell? Or are my head gaskets getting worse? Either way, am I SOL with SOA with respect to the cost of the head gasket repair?

    Thanks for the informative site.

  1327. Joel,

    What you are describing will only work until a point at which the excessive heat and pressure created in the cooling system by the failed head gaskets allowing combustion chamber pressure and temperature into the cooling system can no longer be compensated by increased cooling system flow.

    Don’t put it off if the gaskets are failed, more damage can occur. As to should the heads be machined, yes if they are warped, no if they are not.

    Justin

  1328. I forgot to ask if it is generally necessary to machine the heads when replacing the gasket? And can they be tested to find out?

    Thank you again,

    Joel

  1329. My wife’s 97 Subaru Outback Legacy recently began overheating. After checking or replacing every part of the cooling system I finally brought it in to a mechanic who told me it is likely a bad head gasket. He told me that the car will often over heat when you have been driving for a while and then begin to decelerate. He also mentioned that revving the engine should get the coolant to begin pumping again and temporarily lower the engine temperature. I tried this while driving home from the shop and it seemed to work but it still seems counter intuitive. If the cylinder pressure is escaping into the coolant system wouldn’t accelerating pump even more pressure and gasses into the system? Why would the pressure the water pump generates grow at a faster rate than the cylinder pressure during acceleration? If you could explain what is happening I would feel better about paying the $2500 he wants for the repair. I appreciate your help.

    Joel

  1330. thanks justin, i will get some pugs and wires, what plugs should be used it it.. the only reason i though head gasket is because i had a civic with a bad head gasket, same thing would happen, started hard sometimes and stip and sputtered till it cleanout out the cyl’s coolant was in. i will try the wires and plugs first, it only happens every few days and the flashing check engine light and knocking/mis fire in cyl 1/2 has only happen twice but cleared up 20-30 sec later..

  1331. Justin,
    I have an 06 Outback Wagon and from day one had occasional whiffs of antifreeze, but never found any buildup.
    The car runs fine except in the summer with A/C it sometimes runs hot. Could this be a head gasket problem or an a/c sensor or should I be looking for something else?
    Thanks
    Marc

  1332. Mark,

    The gaskets you have should be ok, Yes copper is really important to use it helps with expansion and contraction as well as making up for the tiny imperfections in the head and block surfaces.

    What you experienced with the head bolts sound about right.

    Justin

  1333. S.N,

    The 2.0l Euro spec should be a totally different head gasket and I don’t think they have some of the same issues as the 2.5l over in the states,

    I think you have a small air pocket in the cooling system or a small radiator hose leak that is pulling in a bit of air as the pressure in the cooling system releases? Sometimes air trapped in the cooling system will make a gurgling noise in the heater core which is in the cabin or (saloon):)

    Justin

    Some bubbles are normal

  1334. Dan,

    There is a lot to go over here and you will not like all I have to say but I am trying to help, the first thing is you should never ever ignore an oil light the vehicle should never be operated with an oil light on at all it means there is no oil pressure and the light is red in color which means stop!!! This info is all in the Owners manual and I know it’s not fun reading but a car is a complicated device and there are lots of opinions about when to do what to your car and lessons come hard and sometimes with a lofty price tag.

    There are other light on the dash as well that you and your wife both should be accustomed to same thing with maintenance intervals and so on. Be coming informed will help avoid the uneasy feeling you may be getting at the Dealership, and you have the right to take your car anywhere that makes you comfortable it’s always better to try and take your car somewhere you can establish a relationship with, it will always be better for you and your car in the long run

    If the oil level is ever found to be low it needs to be corrected before it is driven, if the vehicle was at the Dealer three days earlier for AC work it would have been helpful if they had checked and topped of the oil but that would be rare, it also would have been better to change the oil when it needs to be done which is every 3k or 3 months for most drivers. The higher the mileage the more important it is to check and correct the oil level every 500 miles as engines do use oil as part of the normal combustion process and some oils will burn away faster than others and really it’s the only way to avoid what just happened which was totally avoidable and while I understand this is all very frustrating and you don’t want to face repairs in the future but you may want to consider a different approach to the care of your Subaru after the used engine is put in.

    Yes any used engine should really be resealed before it goes in or you will be fixing head gasket leaks after its installed.

    Justin

  1335. Garth,

    You have to be really careful with the aftermarket warranties, as most expensive repairs are actually not covered and it’s really all hidden in the fine print.

    The most common thing we see in the contracts is exclusions for vehicles at a certain mileage when the contract is sold. Another words they cover seals and gaskets but not if the vehicle has over a certain mileage when the contract is sold. There are so many different companies and contracts it’s hard to suggest any one as they all have a different issues. You can Email me aside from the blog and I will tell you If I have any specific good or bad experiences with the policy you are looking at.

    If the head gaskets have already been done recently, and the rest of the Forester has been fairly well kept up, I would probably suggest putting the same money in a CD unless you have any reasons to suspect any other possible potential issues.

    After market warranties are really a bet with the policy maker, you are betting the car will break down and be covered they are betting it won’t break down and or be covered.

    Justin

  1336. Brian,

    The misfires could be a coil or wire that is burnt or corroded at the coil towers, very common. Also if it has non O.E. type spark plugs a symptom like yours could occur. Since it’s new to you I would start with checking the obvious first.

    A flashing check engine light does indicate the vehicle should not be operated until its repaired, or more damage could occur.

    Justin

  1337. I am in the process of replacing the head gaskets on a 1997 Legacy GT with the 2.5L motor. When I first removed the heads it took a 1/2″ breaker bar with a pipe extension and a gorilla to help me break the head bolts loose. This car has 152,000 miles on it so this may be the second time the head gaskets have been done and who-ever did them previously over torqued them or is that normal from the factory ? The reason I ask is because I have already re-assembled the driver side going through the 8 step process and noticed that it diden’t take anywhere near as much effort to complete the final 2 90° rotations as it did to break the bolts loose. So it has me spooked that it is going to be adequate. The other question I have is that I noticed you recommend using copper coat spray lightly on both sides of the gasket. I have had some people tell me not to use any kind of sealer on those kind of head gaskets. I diden’t find this web site until after I had bolted on the one side and now I wish I had used the copper coat. Would it be possible to remove that head and re-assemble it so I can coat the gasket with copper coat since the engine is still out and hasen’t been ran yet ? Or would I have to replace that new head gasket and the new head bolts in order to do this. I am determined to do this one time and simply want it work. The new head gaskets I bought look like the new one pictured on this page, I see that now there is yet another improvement out from Subaru, would it be worth it to use them instead since I have the engine right at the re-assembly stage ? It would mean more money but like I said I only want to do this once.

    Thanks,

    Mark

  1338. Hello Justin,

    I have Subaru Legacy 2.0cc from 2000, european one, I’m second owner.

    I was just reading forums (educating my self because this is my first Subaru :)) and found out a lot of topics about head gasket problems.
    I decided to check out mine, because some times there is strange water circulation sound in saloon, when the engine is runing cold.
    So I started engine, than opened a coolant overflow bottle cap, and pushed rpm’s up, so I saw the bubbles in the overflow bottle. There was no oil, no smell of exhaust. Are those bobbles a normal made by water pump or I have a HG problem too?
    I checked out the same thing on one of my friends Impreza 2.0cc from 2000, and the result of the bubbles was the same, the guy doesn’t have any problems whit overheating.

    Thanks!

  1339. Hi Justin,

    Great site and thank you for the information. My wife has a 2001 Legacy GT Limited with 107,000 miles and the engine just seized this past Friday. She was driving down the highway, and she said the engine made a terrible noise, there was a terrible smell and then the car just became undrivable. We had it towed to a local shop and they tried to start the car. They immediately recognized that the engine had seized and was going to need to be replaced or remanned. My wife said she noticed that the oil light had been on for about 2 days, but didn’t think much of it. I change the oil regularly and there was no oil leakage on the engine and no oil burning from the exhaust, yet when I pulled the dipstick there was only a small bit of oil on the tip. It was due for a change and I was going to do it that day before a weekend trip to Connecticut.

    As background, the car had the head gaskets done under warranty when it overheated on the highway in October 2006 at 75,000 miles. I had the timing belt and water pump done at the same time per the dealer’s recommendation. This work was done at a Subaru dealer about 150 miles away from my home near where it broke down. They seemed to be straight with us and the car came back working well.

    More recently, I’ve been dealing with a local Subaru dealer for inspections and various repairs that they inevitably say need to be done every time they look at it. Every time I go there, I feel like I’m being sold something, not being dealt with honestly. The A/C system was not working and I knew it needed a recharge, so I took it there to get that taken care of last week. Of course, they recommended a slew of things as they always do, which I turned down, but they did recharge the A/C and said the they found a leak and needed to replace a gasket and the A/C relay at a total cost of $250.

    Is there any reason to think that anything they did (or forgot to do) could have caused the engine to seize a few days later? What about the HG warranty work that was done in ’06? Should I be calling SOA about this issue only 32K miles after the HG and timing belt were replaced? At this point, I bought a used engine out of an ’02 Legacy GT with 68,000 miles on it from Ebay for $1,125.00 and plan on replacing the seized engine with that. My uncle is a mechanic with all the facilities to do this sans labor costs to me (I am a student, I’ve got to cut corners where I can), but I was considering tearing down this used engine to replace the head gaskets and water pump while it’s out so that I just don’t have to think about it.

    After reading your wonderful site it sounds like I should just do a complete engine reseal. I planned on driving this to 200K miles, but I don’t have the time and money to keep dropping on excessively expensive repairs going forward.
    How much should it cost for the complete set of parts to do what I need to do to have a worry free used engine? What course of action would you recommend? Thanks so much. I wish you were near Pittsburgh, I’d bring the car to you!

    Dan

  1340. Hi Justin,

    Thanks for all the excellent information on this website. As a new (2003) Forester owner I can tell that I will be back. My Rue has 95k miles and I was wondering if it would be worth getting an aftermarket extended warranty at this point and if you have seen “better-than-others” warranty issuers? BTW the head gaskets, water pump, coolant has been replaced on this vehicle…

  1341. ok, i just bought my gf a 1998 legacey 2.5. I believe i also have a head gasket issue but none of the above things are happening…. It does not overheat(in the 2k miles we put on it) does not smell like it is burning coolant, no exhaust smell in coolant tank, runs and drives perfect.. issue is when she goes out to start it in the morning after sitting all night is spits and sputters, a few times it even started knocking and the check engine light was flashing when she first drives it, i did a scan on it and it says cyl 1 and cyl 2 misfires. i assume it has a internal coolant leak and is jetting some coolant into the cyl after sitting overnignt. most times spits and sputters on start up runs rough for 15 sec then clears right up… any thoughts?

  1342. Justin,
    This great site is what the internet is all about!
    I have an 06 Outback Ragon and from day one had occasional whiffs of antifreeze, but never found any buildup.
    The car runs fine except in the summer with A/C it sometimes runs hot.
    Thanks
    Marc

  1343. Hi Larry,

    Toyota, Honda, Subaru all make good cars.

    I understand the concern with the head gasket issue, but every make and model has some challenges. Every line of car has a service department that does have to make repairs.

    The CRV is a good vehicle as is the RAV4 or Highlander but each will have there list of issues and there are things those vehicles do not do as well as the Subaru.

    Buy what you are the most comfortable with, will suit your current and future needs and you will want to keep for years. Thats the best advise I have, we used to keep the family vehicle for years and upgrade when the family grew, but then it became normal to but a car every few years and the money spent in interest was just a waste.

    There is so much more value in owning a car you really like for 10 to 15 years and not always paying the bank regardless of a potential head gasket issue the rest of the car is great.

    Justin

  1344. Hi Sue,

    The catalyst is a tricky thing as it is a significant expense that really poses no detriment to the engine other than if the light is on as a result of a failed catalyst you wont ever know if anything new happens as there is only one light.

    Now the Catalyst is a very important part of the emissions control system and it is possible that the Subaru may be polluting the environment more so than if the catalyst was functioning as it should.

    As far as the Head gasket thing its hard to unravel the set of circumstances at this point.

    Oil leaks were only covered for 60k the head gasket warranty was covered until 100k on some Subaru’s but only for external coolant leaks.

    One point though, when you take your car to a dealer for an oil change it may be done by a lube tech no more qualified then any other lube center.

    Justin

  1345. Jim,

    It is normal to use some coolant as it will evaporate, what we see alot around here is that the coolant isn’t topped off at the oil change intervals and becomes low.

    Now in reading your post I see that the bottle level was ok before you took off for the trip and that it consumed some coolant during the trip, about how many miles was it between departure and the high temperature levels?

    If it was many, I dont think there are any concerns but if it was few I suggest that a leakage test should be done and I would request it to be done before the 60k warranty is up if I was you. Also a gas analyzer over the cooling system could help as well

    A cylinder leakage test should help answer if there is any combustion leaking into the cooling system and Visa Versa.

    Justin

  1346. I am considering purchasing a used 1999 Forrester at a very, very good price. How can I tell if the head gaskets are leaking, and determine whether or not to purchase the vehicle. Is there a “checklist” for potential buyer hoping to avoid murderous costs shortly after purchase?

    I have read and understood much of what you said, but would still prefer to purchase a vehicle without such a costly known repair need. I am tall, seeking a hybrid “crossover” half station wagon, half suv vehicle. Head and legroom are key, I have a bad neck and long torso. My question is this:

    I understand you love Subarus, but if someone put a gun to your head and forced you to purchase something besides Subaru, what would you reccomend? A Honda CR-V? Anything less pricey? Thanks, big time, looks like this site takes time, be happy to paypal you a few bucks for your effort.

  1347. This has all been interesting reading. I own a 2003 Forester currently with 143,000 miles on it – have had it to the dealer for every service and have had the oil changed every 3K miles. In March, 2008 the CEL came on right around the 120,000 mile service and I took it to the dealer, along with noting a very small oil leak. They did a complete service and said the code the catalytic converter — said I could replace it but suggested they reset it and see if it comes back on. They said the oil leak was from the drain plug. The CEL would turn on and off intermittently & dealer said as long as it shuts off not to worry.

    In December, 2008 the CEL came on and stayed on again and I noticed a very small oil leak again and a mild fuel smell when the engine shut off. This time I did not take it to the dealer but to a mechanic I trust — bad head gasket and catalytic converter. When all done, he commented that the Subaru dealer said the head gasket was on a nation-wide shortage – didn’t take the time to look into this until now and cannot believe what I am reading.

    So looking for your opinion – 1) should the dealer have insisted the catalytic converter be changed March, 2008 with the first CEL on?
    2) In your opinion, what are the chances of SOA stepping up and covering a portion of the cost? While the engine was out they also changed the timing belt (although it was changed at 90K) & the water pump to avoid having to do this again if those failed or at the next recommended timing belt change.

    And I read elsewhere that special Subaru leak sealing coolant has to be used? True or not? I know the mechanic used all Subaru parts but I didn’t ask about this specifically.

    I think I’ve read most of the questions and answers and this site is very informative – wish I’d found it a year ago.

  1348. Justin, maybe you can help me diagnose a single occurrence issue with my 2007 Subaru Forester X Premium. This past September I drove the car from northern California to a remote archaeological site in northwest New Mexico. On the way there, coming down the mountains out into the Mojave Desert through Tehachipi, California, I noticed the temperature gauge creeping up. I’m paranoid about the Subaru head gasket issue and have had other non-Subarus with head gasket problems, so I check my coolant levels every other fill-up, change my oil and filter every 3750 miles, and watch the temperature gauge religiously. At the time my car had 42,000 miles on the clock. Ambient temperature was about 99 degrees and I was traveling downhill. I never allowed the gauge to get into the red zone, but this was clearly an anomaly as the gauge had never budged past a little over half way the entire preceding 40k+ miles. I had driven the car in much hotter environments as well – it had previously seen temperatures as high as 109 degrees.

    When I noticed the gauge creeping up, I cut the air conditioning, turned on the heat and opened the windows and sunroof. The temperature fell pretty quickly, but with another 12 hours of driving to go this was not a “solution” long term. I stopped at the next rest stop approximately 40 miles out into the Mojave. When I popped the hood I noticed that the radiator overflow bottle was quite low. I had no spare coolant at the time, but I did have distilled water. I added about 16 ounces of water to the overflow reservoir and ate lunch, allowing the engine to cool down. Symptom addressed. I finished the trip, both there and back again, in hilly conditions with temperatures up to 107 degrees and the temperature gauge never budged from its “normal” position.

    I did stop at Planet Subaru in Flagstaff, Arizona, and picked up a bottle of Subaru coolant. I added 16 ounces to the reservoir to equal the 16 ounces of water I had added earlier that day. The symptom has never returned, but I’m not entirely comfortable with the car. I now have a Death Valley trip planned for mid-April and will be even further off the beaten path than I was in New Mexico.

    I should add that the car has occasionally required a top-up of coolant/water since new – no more than say 8 ounces every 7-8k miles. I have no spotting on the driveway, though I do smell a little coolant at times. The smell seems to come from the top of the reservoir bottle where the hose enters. The coolant level was correct when I left for the trip.

    Any suggestions as to what might have caused the temperature spike I observed? Anything I should have checked prior to my next difficult trip? Of course the dealer service techs have looked into my minor coolant use/coolant smell issue more than once and found no problem; they have tested the cooling system and found no leaks and did replace the radiator cap at 12k miles stating that the original unit was sub-spec. My confidence level is fairly low with respect to their diagnoses.

    Thanks!

    – Jim

  1349. I spoke with the service at Subaru on the head gasket problem. They will replace both head gaskets. All I have to pay is a $200 deductible and the cost of an oil change(Subaru won’t cover the oil)$230 total. I will say this…I am a Subaru customer for life if they are willing to stand behind their products like this.

  1350. Phil,

    The RS in 2000 is a phase II 2.5l which are subject to an external leak.

    I want to caution that if it is repaired correctly it should be just fine. But there is a big difference in repaired and repaired correctly.

    Justin

  1351. Hey Knute,

    As per Subaru if the Subaru head gaskets are used it is required or at least suggested to maintain any type of warranty that the O.E Subaru coolant is used along with the conditioner.

    I have mixed feelings about this as we see cars that have had multiple doses of the conditioner end up with clogged radiators.

    As far as coolant with the O.E Subaru gaskets its better to use the Subaru coolant.

    The idle thing doesn’t make much sense to me, I would keep the lines of communication open with the Dealership service department. The number one cause of a vibration at idle after a major repair on a Subaru is a bolt or spark plug dropped down by one of the motor mounts causing a vibration as the rubber isolation of the motor mount is being bypassed. Just one of many possibilities.

    Justin

  1352. Jay,

    I’m not sure what method the shop used to check for head gaskets, but really the only way is to look for signs of exhaust gas present in the cooling system.

    If there is exhaust present I would suggest taking care of it before it has a chance to overheat multiple times as that can add to the expense of the repairs.

    Justin

  1353. Mark E,

    Its better to check the heads for warp, and if they are warped to machine the heads, don’t arbitrarily machine them.

    This is especially true if you don’t know the whole service history. The heads are allowed .002 of warp and the total area that can be machined off is .012 the heads can be checked for warp with a strait edge and a feeler gauge.

    You can either use the Subaru replacement gaskets or the ones we sell and your results will be good as long as you take the time to follow the steps needed to do the repair properly.

    Justin

  1354. I’m looking at purchasing a 2000 Subaru RS. Are the head gaskets something that I should worry about for that model year? I couldn’t find which particular Phase type the model year had, so I wanted to ask, rather than assume. The car has 132,XXX miles on it.

    The article stated that once they were replaced, they typically were good for the life of the car thereafter.

  1355. I have a 2004 Legacy 2.5i with 67,000 miles. Thought I had a steering rack feed line failure and went to replace. My mechanic called with the bad news and said that wasn’t the problem, it was a blown head gasket…ugh! Too big of a job for him, called another mechanic I trusted and estimate started at $1,400…double ugh! Although, he said call Subaru and ask if still covered, warranty expired in October 2008. But, the service department said upon their recommendation, Subaru of America will cover the cost less a $200 deducable…yeeha! I haven’t set up the appointment yet, but will keep the board posted. This is something, if they fix, will make me buy another Subaru inthe future.
    Maybe our Countries domestic companies can take note.

  1356. Hi Justin. Enjoy the information on your site. Our 2003 Forrester with 90K was leaking coolant. Had both head gaskets, timing belt, crank and cam seals replaced. Three questions.
    1. Any advantage of using Suburu coolant instead of standard green Prestone?
    2. Should I use Subaru Coolant Conditioner in this year car?
    3. Immediately after the repair, the car “vibrates” a lot more at idle. The dealer said since the battery was disconnected during the service, the computer needs to reset itself and to just drive the car for a fews days. Well, a few days later and it still idles rough. Any reasons/thoughts? Thanks much. Knute H. La Crosse, WI

  1357. Thanks for the very useful website. I just bought a 98 Outback with 107,000 miles on it. The temperature gauge runs at about 1/2 and is there with a couple of miles. However, I drove it to Mt. Hood and the temp gauge went through the roof. I towed it to my mechanic, and they could not detect head gasket failure. They said there were no external leaks though there was a small chance there was an internal one. We replaced the thermostat and the temp gauge it at 1/2 again. Sooner or later I will have to replace the HG; however, will it be a one time thing or will it happen over and over again? Should I do it now? Thanks for your help.

  1358. Justin,

    I have a 96 Legacy GT with a 2.5 DOHC. I have been having trouble with over heating also. I have seen dark oily foam, and bubbling in my radiator leading me to believe it’s my head gaskets. I’ve been told to make sure i don’t use graphite gaskets but to use MLS gaskets instead. Can you help with the best choice so its maybe a onetime deal. I’m doing the work myself and having the heads cut alsogetting new head bolts. And what would be a good source for the gaskets? Thank You for the help.

  1359. Jessie,

    If the vehicle is repaired by a Subaru dealer and the Subaru replacement gaskets are used then yes the conditioner should be used.

    Yes you are correct that the owners manual states nothing about the conditioner and actually on the 03 and 04 models it is a Grey area as the WWP 99 campaign only pointed to the conditioner being used in the 2000 to 2002 models to prolong the head gasket warranty. Since then it has been common practice at most Subaru dealer service departments to put this in along with the O.E Subaru coolant.

    If you own a 03 or 04 model and this has been done you may have a good chance of gaining some ground in Subaru participating in the repair costs.

    Justin

  1360. Justin, I am amazed that you have taken so much time and effort to address the issues as well as questions in posts. I am not even a Subaru owner, yet I really enjoyed reading the post. I came across the article via google as I was looking into buying a new car. It is an eye opener. People sometimes fail to understand that an engine system is a fairly complex technical achievement!

    The world is a better place due to selfless service like yours. Thank you very much.

  1361. Well, I believe I am having this problem as well. I have to have it diagnosed by a dealership then Subaru will tell me if they’ll provide financial assistance. But I’ll be angry if I have to pay for that just for Subaru to tell me they won’t give me any money, anyways, when my mechanic will just fix it all at once. I have a 2003 Legacy, with no extended warranty applicable. Anyway, what is the proper fix? Do they replace the seal? I believe my mechanic mentioned something about machining it, not replacing it. Should I use that coolant conditioner? My manual makes absolutely no mention of that. This is so frustrating. Thanks for this article, very much.

  1362. Hi again, Justin. Thanks for your response. You were right, in a sense, that it was a radiator problem, but fortunately not at all a serious one. It turns out that the clamp for the lower radiator hose had corroded, so that the hose was not being held on tightly enough, causing a very slow coolant leak. New clamp, replenished coolant … and no more craziness with the temperature gauge! I got away VERY cheap. Perhaps this can be considered evidence that the 2003 engines ARE less prone to the head gasket problem. Time will tell.

    Thanks again. It is so impressive to me that you are so willing to help people who, due to location, will never become your customers.

  1363. Justin,

    I am currently repairing a head gasket leak on a 1998 Legacy outback with 130,000 mi. Should I use a copper spray sealant on the new head gaskets?

  1364. Justin –
    Thanks so much for your response. I’ll call my Subaru tech and see if we can work out any deals on labor if I have all the work done at the same time. Sure wish Missoula was closer to Seattle – I’d be coming to you to have the work done 🙂

  1365. Hey Sarah,

    I am a firm believer in the Subaru and it lasting 300k and beyond. Yes the gaskets do tend to leak but there is a good chance it wont happen a second time if it is done properly now.

    The timing belt even though it is only 40k old should be done as it wont be due for another 105k and will keep the total cost going forward down some. The price should be less than $90.00 and well worth it in my opinion. The rear o2 sensor is a crucial part of the emissions system and is one of the key components in keeping the Subaru from polluting the environment excessively, but the price quoted is too high and if done with the head gaskets it should be done for much less the Subaru list price should be $169.00 or so and we wouldn’t charge any labor at our shop if we were replacing the head gaskets and I would try to negotiate the same at the dealership.

    I have also been saying this a lot, but the next generation of cars are worth waiting for and keeping what you already have if you still like the car is really the best way to go until some better, more fuel efficient choices are available.

    Justin

  1366. Hey Gary,

    Based on the symptoms it’s possible that the head gaskets are starting to fail internally (coolant to combustion) but it could also be a restricted Radiator.

    If you could take a minute and smell the coolant overflow bottle for an exhaust, sulfur or fuel smell it is a quick check you can perform your self. If it smells like any of the above the head gaskets are failing.

    As far as help from Subaru it is possible but it can also vary, I have had just as many drivers report they obtained some help when it was requested as those that were denied any assistance or participation.

    All you can do is try.

    Justin

  1367. Hi Justin –
    I’ve been reading your posts because I’ve been trying to decide if it was worth fixing my Subaru or replacing it. I have a ’99 Forester with about 140K. The coolant additive was performed in 2005. Last year I had to replace the right CV boot (under the hood) @111K. At that time my Subaru dealer tech told me there was an oil leak on one side of my head gasket and it would cost between $1500-1700 to fix. Then a few months ago my CEL came on and I was told it was my rear O2 sensor which would be about $320 (I had my Knock sensor replaced and timing belt changed @101K).
    I like my Subi (it’s paid off and gives me the room and AWD I need) but I’ve been wondering if fixing it was the right way to go, not knowing what kind of longevity Subarus are good for.

    From what I’m reading, you would recommend the head gasket repair and that should give my Subi a new life, right?

    What can you tell me about the rear O2 sensor? Is this a necessity to fix?

    And what is the life expectancy of Subaru timing belts? If I’m going to have them remove my engine to fix the head gasket anyway, should I consider replacing the timing belt, even though it’s only been 40K miles since the last replacement?

    Thank you very much for your help. I absolutely hate dealing with car problems and I never quite believe dealer mechanics are telling me the absolute truth.

  1368. Hi Justin, I emailed Subaru of NA a similar question as what I posted here, thinking it couldn’t hurt. They responded and requested additional information. One week later, the service manager from the local Subaru dealership called and said if I would pay $500, Subaru would cover the rest of the repair. I happily agreed and will take my car in for repairs in a few days as there isn’t an independent Subaru shop in the area. The engine will be removed for the repair and I’ve learned from this site, that I should get the timing belt replaced at the same time. Thanks for your site!

  1369. Hi, Justin:
    Thank you for this amazingly helpful resource. Your knowledge is extraordinary, and your ability to express that knowledge in writing is equally remarkable! I sure would appreciate your opinion:
    I have a 2003 Subaru Outback manual trans with 89,000 miles, and thus out of warranty. I have recently occasionally smelled a faint coolant odor, and yesterday, for the first time, I noticed the temperature gauge sometimes fluctuating wildly: shooting up from normal to almost to the “H” within a few seconds, seemingly faster than the actual coolant temp could be changing, then quickly dropping back to normal after about 15 seconds (sometimes longer), again seemingly faster than any feasible true change in coolant temp. When I pull over and lift the hood, however, there is no evidence of actual overheating or leaks and, in fact, the radiator and coolant are no hotter than usual. Does this sound to you like the earliest stage of the dreaded head gasket problem, or could there perhaps be other causes of these symptoms?
    If it is the head gasket, do you know whether Subaru of America is still showing sympathy to owners with this problem? I’ve read, on another site, that in the past, Subaru extended coverage for cylinder head gasket external coolant leaks. I will certainly call them about this, but do you have any independent info and advice about an extended warranty?

  1370. Hey Davida,

    The $700.00 for a timing belt while the head gaskets are done is kinda out of line if thats all the are doing.

    List for the belt is $87.00, tensioner $143.90 there is no labor to do the belt while the head gaskets are being done.

    I don’t like the idea of the Dealer doing the repairs but I am not sure if the other shop is right for you either.

    What I always advise is an Independent Subaru Shop, pulling the motor out and doing the repairs. The repairs made in the car just do not last, and this is how they are typically done this way at the dealer. If an Independent Subaru shop isn’t available where you are then I would probably stick with the dealership, but I say this kicking and screaming.

    As to the question of is pulling the engine out the best way to go the answer is always going to be yes.. I could go on for days about why.

    If you read some of the other posts, what I try to point out is that a car repaired under warranty will be done in the quickest way possible, once the short cuts are learned thats how they are all repaired regardless of warranty or “customer pay”. I could also go on for months about why this is this way.

    Justin

  1371. I have a 2001 Forester and am experiencing the HG problem with R and L leaks. Much to my surprise, the extended 8 year/100,000 mile warranty expired in early Janury ’09 and I discovered the problem in early February ’09. Anyway, I called Subaru America and they told me before they could offer me a “deal” on the repairs I had to get an estimate from my local Subaru dealer. I did this and the dealer’s estimate came back at $2100, $1100 more than the AAA garage that first diagnosed the problem a week earlier. When I commented on the difference, the dealer said they would be able to go 50/50 with me using dealer pricing on parts (no deal on labor) which would reduce the estimate slightly but put my cost at approx. $1,000. Since AAA and the dealer would be about the same cost to me, should I stick with the dealer and let them do the work thinking they would be more knowledgeable and do the repair correctly? There is also a garage in town that works on foreign cars and has a good reputation. Should I get a quote from them and consider having the work done there? The dealer also said I should change the timing belt (another $700) at the same time the HG is repaired. Is this true? Lastly, is pulling the engine the very best way to do the repairs and, if so, how will I know the work is truly being done that way?

    I stumbled onto your website and have found it very informative – been reading it for the last 1.5 hours. Thanks very much.

  1372. Luke,

    I wouldn’t be afraid of the 4 cylinder Subaru at all. The H6 models are nice cars but keep in mind you need to run premium fuel, the maintenance costs are higher minus the timing belt (as it has a chain) and the fuel economy is less.

    I sound like a broken record sometimes but the head gasket issue is a combination of not enough maintenance causing the fluids to eat away at the gaskets, higher combustion temperatures causing a greater range of expansion of the cylinder heads.

    We see just as many with without leaks as we do with. Buying a used vehicle that shows no signs of head gasket leaks now and a good maintenance schedule afterwards should help minimize the chance you may have to have it done.

    Justin

  1373. Hey Chris,

    It may make more sense to budget for all the work at the same time as it will save money over the long run. For example when we do Head gaskets there is no clutch labor only the cost of the parts. If you pay to have a clutch replaced and then later to have the head gaskets done it will cost you around $500.00 more that way.

    It’s still a good car and should continue serve you well.

    Justin

  1374. I am planning on buying a 2000-2004 Subaru. Now after researching and reading about the troubles people have with head gaskets, I am not sure if I should get one of these vehicles. Are these head gasket problems only with 2.5L engine, or are they problems with a 3.0 6 cylinder boxer as well? I had driven 2 Subarus, one to arond 270,000 and the other to 230,000, but both were a 2.2l engine. Never any major repairs (over $200);
    So, is a 6cylinder affected with this same problem? How widespread is the 2.5l problem, say per 100 cars? There are about 180 questions on this board. Subaru sold around 200k cars per year.
    I am worried about getting a 4 cylinder from Subaru. What do you think?

  1375. Eric,

    My advice is never plan on dropping in a used engine it will not last, the head gaskets in the wrecking yard engine are the same as the ones that failed in your car most likely.

    Fix what you have is almost always my advice, as far as repair life. There are a lot of variables but the cars we repair last a long time after repairs. IF the car is repaired properly your experience will hopefully be the same.

    Justin

  1376. Hey Jason,

    I hate saying this but the repairs you have paid for are incomplete.

    Either something was missed, the heads not torqued properly, a defective or aftermarket thermostat was used or an air pocket is in the cooling system.

    The car should have performed flawlessly after the repairs.

    How familiar with Subaru is the shop that fixed the Subie

    Justin

  1377. Marj,

    The warranty is related to WWP-99 which is a campaign that states if the Subaru coolant conditioner is put in the engine promptly at a Subaru Dealership, coverage for external coolant leaks from the Head gaskets will be extended to 8 years or 100k, it does not cover oil leaks. Sorry

    Justin

  1378. Lindsy,

    I am sorry for the delayed response. Our move into a bigger space next door is occupying the time I usually make for this. Any ways

    That is very frustrating, my guess is the second portion of the torque sequence wasn’t done properly. That is usually the case when the head gaskets start to leak externally in such a such a short time. Really the only way to know is to have it checked. No you shouldn’t have to go through this.

    You may want to call Subaru of America and see if they can offer any help with the repair costs due to poor work done by an authorized Subaru repair center. I would take it do a different dealer though if that is an option.

    Or better yet, if you can get some money back from Subaru let a good independent Subaru shop take over and you wont look back.

    Justin

  1379. Hi Justin,

    I appreciate all you’ve done with this site. I have learned a lot just by reading your answers to everyone’s questions so thanks for all your insight.

    I have a question for you though. I have a 1998 Forester manual transmission with 180,000 miles on it. I do most of the maintenance myself as far as fluids and tire rotations go. The bigger stuff goes down the street to my mechanic. Except for the timing belt, which was thrown off by a leaking front crank seal at 70,000 miles and replaced, everything has gone by the book.

    I’ve had an oil burning smell for the past 3 weeks. I took it in to my mechanic (I live in New Hampshire….sorry I can’t bring it to you :)), and he diagnosed a leaking rear crankshaft seal. He says it doesn’t need to be done now, but it should be done within a year. I’m due for a new clutch soon too as I’m starting to get a loud pinging sound unless I’m pressing down the clutch.

    Basically, I thought I could take care of a couple of items at a time: rear crankshaft seal, clutch & flywheel, head gaskets machined and resealed, 180K service- since I plan on owning this car for at least five more years and the head gaskets have never been done. Is there anything else I should have him replace while the engine is out. I just had the timing belt, cam seals, water pump, & thermostat done 10,000 miles ago.

    Thanks again,
    Chris

  1380. While driving in the mountains yesterday I blew my head gasket in my 1998 Subaru Outback (104k) and now with it in the shop two hours away I’m in a dilema on what to do… Do I simply fix the gasket problem or replace with a used engine? Also my fear is that this will happen again fixing it with the two scenarios above. Do I simply get the gasket fixed and then look to dump my subaru or take my chances with it? What are the chances of this happening again? Also typically how much would I spend on these two options? The shop I had my car towed to seems like a good shop but with it being in a remote shop in the mountains I want to make sure I’m not getting a much higher price than if I had the work done in Denver.

  1381. Justin,

    Your sight has been very helpful. I just wish I had found it before I bought my 98 Legacy GT. Would have bought the 97 legacy with the smaller engine instead.
    Anyway, I bought the 98 Legacy GT with about 140k on it. Ran great for about 2 months. Got some pretty cold temps one night and when I came outside in the morning I noticed some coolant on the ground. Radiator was leaking. Took it to the shop they replaced it and the thermostat as well. Got it back and drove it and it started to run hot. About 3/4 of the way up on the gauge. Took it back to the mechanic and he said it was the head gaskets. So I said do the repair thinking that would be the end of the problems and I would be back to happily driving my subaru.

    Just got it back the other day from the HG repair and now the temp gauge is jumping up to 3/4 of the way up, but goes back down to the half way point almost immediately, and stays there when while the car is in motion. I’ll come to a stop and it’ll stay at the halfway point and jump again when I start moving again and then drop back down. The temp will also slowly rise when idling for about 15 minutes and will go back down when you rev up the engine for a moment.

    I should note that it takes about a 1/2 hour of driving or idling for this to start to occur.

    Some other things I’ve noticed is that once the fans go on they don’t seem to shut off until I turn off the car. The radiator cap never seems to get warm or hot, and the lower hose on the radiator is cold to the touch. I wouldn’t expect that the fans would be that efficient at cooling. I’ve never had a car that both radiator hoses weren’t at the least warm to the touch.

    Could this be a faulty or improperly installed thermostat, or possibly a bad water pump. I was thinking that with the temp going up when I accelerate and than dropping back down that maybe the waterpump isn’t circulating the coolant as well at the slower engine speeds.

    I haven’t taken it back to the mechanic yet as I wanted to get some more insight into what may possibly be going on. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

    I should also note that my mechanic said that changing the engine might be a better idea that the head gaskets as the engine does have a tapping sound. But it seems to me that it is the piston slap. It quiets down when the engine gets warm. It’s very agricultural sounding as I have heard some people put it.

    Thank You,

    Jason

  1382. I have a 2002 Subaru Outback and was informed yesterday that both head gaskets are bad and leaking oil. I have the 2.51 engine. In reading other information on the net, others refer to Subaru extending the warranty on these engines for this problem. Is this true or fiction? My dealer didn’t mention anything about this. There quote was for $1700 including 2 days in shop.

  1383. Justin,

    In September 2008 we took our 2003 Impreza Outback Sport in for leaky head gaskets on both sides. We went to an Authorized Subaru dealer, since most of the repairs were going to be covered under warranty (but it was a fight the whole way). In the process of changing the head bolts the busted them, couldn’t get them drilled out and eventually they had to replace the whole engine block. We have put a little over 3000 miles on and now the gaskets are leaking again! I am just wondering if the car was actually repaired properly is this even possible? The dealer we went to has (of course) went out of business and the new Subaru dealer has the same lead service tech on site.

    Thanks for the great site and gasket information! I am seriously considering driving the 9 hours to WA to get this car fixed properly.

  1384. Justin,

    Thanks for the valuable info. Sorry if this was already mentioned (there are so many comments that I may have missed it), but do you or anyone else reading this know what the part number is for the new, redesigned head gasket for the 1996 2.5L Legacy? Or how to track it down/ order it online?

    Thanks in advance!

  1385. Mike,

    Its hard to advise you here. I understand the expectation that gaskets should last longer and when they don’t its frustrating.

    I don’t really like the idea of trading in what you already have unless you hate your car or you like giving someone else your money as buying something else will cost more than what it will take to repair your Subaru Outback.

    We all go through the “should I get rid of it” phase but it will pass after it is fixed just the same as it will if you buy another car.

    Its really up to your comfort level with how much money you want to spend.

    Some times we will make irrational decisions to buy something else when a car fails to please and spend 25k to get over that feeling instead of a couple thousand to fix.

    If you want a new car though you can use this as the excuse to buy one I am sure you deserve it.

    Justin

  1386. Mike # 257

    The 1999 Legacy 2.2l isn’t as prone to head gasket failure as the 2.5l. The gasket found in the 1999 legacy from the factory will look like Subaru’replacement gasket for the 1st generation 2.5l. The 2nd gen 2.2l is more prone then the 1st gen but we rarely see either for repairs.

    The first gen 2.2l is a great engine but would have never been able to meet some of the requirements for modern emissions levels.

    Justin

  1387. And further….I must admit that the overheating started after I put “steel seal” additive in the radiator thinking I might put off the headgasket repair a few thousand miles. Now I likely have obstructed radiator, heater core and/or water pump as a result. I feel like such an Oaf for beliving their gaurantee. As for replacing the plugs, it took me just over a half hour.

  1388. I have a 2005 Outback, bought new in Oct 2004, its got 71,411 miles now. I just had the read wheel bearings replaced under warrentee. I also have had all the maintance intervals done. While it was at the Dealer they noticed an external head gasket leak and quoted $2k to repair. The oil looks fine, no smell from the heater, and the coolant looks full. I’m trying to figure out if I should have a different dealer look at it, and have the cheaper shop do the repair, or trade in. It seems like the mileage is low for a newer to need a repair like this. Any thoughs? With exception of the read wheel bearings and this gasket, it has been a fine car so far.

  1389. I’ve just got a ’99 Legacy with a 2.2L engine. Is this engine more prone to developing head gasket problems than the earlier ones? Thanks.

  1390. Hey Justin,

    This is Justin again. Yes, I’m under 40 so you could say that I was named “after” you! I have another question for you. This one might be a little harder since you were not the one who fixed (sort of) my car. After getting the car back from having the headgaskets, valve job, timing belt tensioner, new radiator hoses, alternator, and front end lower ball joints replaced, the car is now hesitating and losing power intermittently in short bursts and the check engine light came on. It is more noticable at highway speeds. I should note that he had my car for over 3 weeks and the car had about a quarter tank of gas in it at the time. It was also very cold here in Wisconsin these past few weeks. I filled up the tank and added some HEET and fuel injector cleaner to the tank. It almost feels like the car is misfiring to me. I got to run about a quarter tank through it before the guy took the car back yesterday. He checked the code, said it was a bad crankshaft sensor and replaced it. Took it for another drive and the problem was still there. He scanned it again, this time the code says it is a bad camshaft sensor. He said he was going to replace that. I should find out tomorrow what results that will have. Do you have any suggestions? Here I sit with no Subaru to show for all of my money to get it fixed. Thanks for your informative site and your time in answering these questions.

  1391. Will,

    I have not seen a 05 with failed gaskets, now I have heard of one or two failures but there is no way it is anything like the 2000 to 2001 models were.

    Here is the deal on the second generation gasket, there are superseded part numbers and technically the 04 should have a different gasket in it than the 02.

    The replacement gasket is part #11044 AA633 and this is the part number that is supposed to be in the 03 and 04, while the earlier mode used #11044 AA632.

    So 03 is year of the change in gasket but the 05s are different yet

    Justin

  1392. Justin,

    Great name I hope you are under 40 so I can say you were named “after” me.

    Any ways, there isn’t any real break in period needed. And the head bolts don’t or shouldn’t need to be re torqued, they are “torque to yield” type bolts.

    Justin

  1393. Caroline,

    Some shops repair cars differently then the next, there are replaceable contacts in the starter that wear out and would have caused a “click” when trying to start.

    There is no connection between a clutch, starter and head gaskets except that they have all aged together.

    As far as worth, I promise you that you will spend less money repairing the 1999 Subaru Outback right now than the first day depreciation of any new car you buy.

    There is a disconnect between worth and value I am afraid. I dont know what your financial situation is but if you take $25,000 out of savings to buy a car you will loose any interest or investment money you may have made, if you finance the car you will pay interest on $25,000 for the next 6 years or so, plus full coverage insurance and at the end of the loan you will have a car in the same shape the Outback is in now most likely.

    My advice is always the same, if you like Your Subaru repair it and in a few months you wont regret it, if you WANT a new car use this as the excuse to go get it I am sure you deserve it.

    Justin

  1394. Justin – Thanks for the wonderful website you have put together. I appreciate the careful and detailed information you provide. I have two questions: 1) did Subaru change the head gasket design on the 2.5L Outback following the change in 2003? and if so, when? 2) do you have any sense of whether there are fewer head gasket problems in the 2.5L 05 Outback than the 04? Thanks for your time and help!
    -Will

  1395. Hi Justin,

    I just had the headgaskets (along with a ton of other work)done on my 2000 Subaru Outback with 105K miles. I was wondering what you recommend as far as break-in time on the new headgaskets. I am staying under 55mph and not going over 3K rpm. Should I retorque the head bolts after so many miles? Thanks for your time and help.

  1396. I have a 99 subaru legacy outback that I bought new. It has about 70,000 miles. In the past month it has needed a new starter, a new clutch something or other, and now needs a new head gasket. Are these all connected? Is it worth paying for the repairs, we’ve already spent many hundreds for the first 2 repairs. The car has been trustworthy up until now, except for a new battery a couple of years ago.

  1397. Gary,

    We do provide Tech support with parts purchase; this includes a tool and chemical list along with a step by step set of instructions to guide you through the process.

    We have helped many people like yourself complete this task.

    Justin

  1398. Tony,

    A lot of your questions are hard to answer, but I will give it a shot.

    You may have broken an axle. The 1996 2.2l isn’t really subject to head gasket issues but the condition of your gaskets may vary.

  1399. Justin,
    Great site! So, I have a 03 outback w 2.5 engine with 61k miles. I have cleaned the battery crust twice and have noticed coolant smell for the last few months. I am looking to replace the head gaskets, timing belt, w pump, oil seals etc myself. I have another car so no major rush. The plan is to take the motor out o the car so as to do it right as you have recommended. I have a fair aount of tools from work I’ve done on motorcycles but would like to know if there is a list of tools you could point me to and other must have bits and must do extras steps. I like my RU and not ready to get rid of it. Although I don’t need such a diversion in my life at this time, I reckon I could learn alot if I just take my time. Thanks! Gary

  1400. ps. i live in michigan and i will be in the 2ft of snow situation alot
    the one i have seemed to do it fairly easy pretty amazing actually
    i have to drive back in the field alot where i work and its not plowed
    i tow things out of the dith with it too at work when the vehicles or any snowmobiles or what ever i have to tow them up this year the subaru is the best thing for that is that asking too much out of the car, i does the work i need to really easy , i want to tow about 1,000 too a small small trailer and a little bit of music gear any thoughts on that as far as the strength of the drive terrain of this particular subaru,
    thanx again tony

  1401. hi my name is tony, and i want to say thanx for all the info,
    i really need alot of room and i need all wheel drive or 4×4, i love the toyota 4-runner
    but the fuel is too much
    i have came to the conclusion the subaru all wheel drive wagon is a great comprimise
    so i bought a 1996 legacey with 2.2 all rusty 193,000 miles etc i loved the car had to do some work wheel bearings struts brakes cv shaft, i love the car , the front wheel drive of the car isnt working the rear wheels are working i drive it a little and it makes a clicking noise and the front wheels dont pull they are just along for the ride,
    if it wasnt rusty i would just rplace the trans the engine runs fantastic
    i do all the work my self i can fix i have my own shop etc all the tools
    i am gonna buy another on just like it
    i want to know if that model 1996 2.2l engine is effected by the head gasket issue , also have you ever heard of the front wheels not working , its not the hubs
    also do you knw of any other issues with this model i should be aware of i dont really care too much about the head gaskets i can change them my self but im a little worried about the trsmission , i was at high rpms in 2 ft of snow with the wheels turned almost fully to the left and a huge bang and then just rear wheel drive from there
    thanx tony

  1402. Did you buy an extended warranty on your WRX?

    Or if its the extended head gasket warranty in regards to WWP-99 campaign, that never applied to the WRX.

    Don’t push the coolant changes(every 30k) out to far with the Turbo especially.

    As far as your smoke, its possible the stage two map is contributing but its hard really to say without viewing it.

    Raw fuel in the exhaust may be white in color, but so will coolant.

    With the stage 2 are you with out kitties?

    The WRX doesn’t have a track record of issues, but that doesn’t mean yours isn’t having a head gasket issue, just that its very rare.

    Justin

  1403. Wendy,

    Typically in that era Subaru the gauge will to the half way mark and then never move.

    So what you are describing has me a bit concerned.

    The Accord is going to be different.

    I am a little worried there is a restricted radiator. Or something else along those lines.

    The car isn’t in front of me so I may be at a bit of a disadvantage but based on the fluctuating temperature gauge readings there is something wrong, either with the cooling system or the gauge.

    Justin

  1404. About 3 days ago, a white smoke started appearing from my exhaust when I start my car and take off.
    I drive and early model ’03 Impreza WRX (original owner purchased in Nov of ’02, I subsequently purchased it in ’05)
    I have mods, lightweight flywheel and aftermarket clutch (installed by dealer) and a turbo back exhaust with a flashed ECU (upped from stage 1 to 2 one week ago).
    I am up to date on all oil changes (will actually have next one tomorrow), spark plugs were replaced about 15k ago.
    I am at 67k, but missed my 60k maintenance as I was traveling.
    Smoke is not consistent while driving and I hear no engine knock. Operating temp and gas consumption are all normal.
    Am I looking at the beginnings of a head gasket problem, or possibly something less?
    If gaskets, will I fall under the extended warranty?

  1405. Hi Justin – Thanks for the very informative site on Subie’s with headgasket issues! I bought my dad’s 96 Legacy Outback 3 months ago (he’s the only prior owner), and noticed the typical symptoms of a bad headgasket (though I didn’t know what was going on until it overheated and I took it in.) I had the head gaskets replaced 3 days ago, and now I have an issue with the temperature gauge. Driving away from the shop, the gauge rose from half-way up to about 7/8 up the dial. At that point I drove it back to the mechanic who had just completed the repair, thinking it was overheating again. He told me it actually had not overheated, and that it is normal for a gauge to read that high. We took a test-drive at highway speeds, while he read a scanner hooked up to the fuse that logged the coolant temperature. While the gauge rose, he read off the temps and said they were well within normal – 208 to 216 degrees. He also said it was normal for the gauge to go as high as 7/8 of the way to the H, and only to be concerned if I lose heat (I haven’t; in fact it’s very toasty) or if the gauge hits the double-dotted line at the H. He also warned me that the gauge will read even higher in the summer. (We’re in Minnesota and it’s been below zero for awhile). My question to you is, should I believe what he says or is there some other problem I should be having them look for? The manual says that anywhere between the C and the double-dotted line is normal operating range, and that the temp needle will change depending on outside and driving conditions. I’ve driven the last two days with one eye on the gauge, waiting to see if it is going to hit the H or stop in the “normal range”. I also notice that it gets “hotter” at faster speeds, then goes down to about 1/2-3/4 at lower speeds or idle (opposite to what I would expect with an overheat). The temp inside the car stays the same – nice & toasty. When I stop the vehicle & get out, I’ve noticed an odor of hot coolant at the front end, though I don’t hear any gurgles or hissing, nor is there any steam. I wonder if that could be residue from its one and only overheat? (We’re going to throw some cardboard down to see if we can spot a leak.) I’m used to driving a 93 Honda Accord whose temp gauge stays right about 1/3 above the C without budging, so all this jumping around has me spooked.
    Thanks for any help you can give!

  1406. Thanks, Justin…Very good info. We’ll continue to monitor the situation and if no other leak is found we’ll probably just replace the gaskets. I suspect these gaskets that are on there now are probably sub-standard quality.

    Like I said, this little car has been perfect for school transportation otherwise.

    Thanks so much!

  1407. Hey Great website!

    I’m thinking of buying an 2009 Impreza with the 2.5I. Have they fixed the head gasket problems on all the new cars now? Have you seen anymore coming in 2004 and newer? or are they still being fixed by Subaru. Or does it take about 5 years before we will really know?

    Thanks again.

  1408. Hello John,

    You can’t really find a head gasket issue solely the way you have tried so far. Since expansion from heat and pressure is typically part of the problem it is sometimes hard to check for head gaskets on the older 2.2l in the way you outlined. A compression test really only shows the compression of the cylinder and not if there is a small gasket leak into another sealed system. You may have better luck performing a leakage test, but again this needs to be done hot and doing the test when the engine is hot is difficult for many reasons.

    Checking for hydro carbons in the cooling system with a coolant fill funnel and the engine at operating temperature using a gas analyzer is really a better method.

    If you have no external leaks at all there really are only the gaskets left. In modern engines with catalytic convertors, small head gasket leaks may not reveal themselves via increased steam levels out of the exhaust. The 2.2l is capable of having a head gasket leak but many go 300k without having a leak.

    The entire time the whole timing belt idler thing was going on the flow from the water pump may have been slowed which could have caused a head gasket problem by limiting coolant flow.
    If your head gaskets end up being the issue, just repair what you have and drive it for years to come provided the repairs are done correctly and the car maintained after the repairs.

    A over looked item could be the coolant cross over pipe o rings under the intake manifold for an external leak but it’s hard to imagine the o-rings leaking that much coolant and going unnoticed.

    Justin

  1409. Justin,
    We have a “new to us” 1993 Subaru Legacy L sedan, FWD, about 150k miles, 2.2L engine. Overall, the car is in pretty good shape and the previous owner had replaced the head gaskets and timing belt. This is a “Go to school car” for my 18yr old daughter.

    What the previous owner hadn’t done was replace the timing belt pulleys, and about 6 weeks ago one of the pulley bearings separated, and the timing belt fell off and she was left along side the road.

    SO: The engine has a new water pump, hoses, belts, new timing belt pulleys, oil pump, radiator (he old one was found to have a crack) and new plugs and wires. It now runs like a champ..

    BUT: About every week I have to add coolant. There is no visible coolant leak, no steam in the exhaust, the spark plug come out looking clean and dry. I don’t see any oil in the coolant bottle. The compression is good on all four cylinders, and the motor runs as smooth as silk.

    I’m suspecting the previous owner may have put in less than quality head gaskets, I’m not sure, and I’m not even sure we have a head gasket leak. Is there another place to look for a possible coolant leak? The left side valve cover has a minor oil leak, but the head gaskets have no visible external leak of any kind.

    Sometimes in the morning I’ll find the radiator under vacuum and the upper radiator hose collapsed in on itself. I know the system goes under vacuum when its cool, and I’ve replaced the radiator cap…but the system is still losing coolant, and I can’t find the leak. It does draw down the coolant bottle a little every day (the next morning).

    Any Thoughts?

    How reliable are the engines from 1993? If the coolant issue gets fixed are there other problems with the older FWD sedans? This car has no other issue we can find.

    Thanks!

  1410. John,

    As pressure and heat in the cooling system increases the coolant is pushed from the radiator to the coolant overflow bottle. As the pressure decreases, vacuum increases in the radiator and pulls the coolant back into the radiator from the overflow bottle.

    This is the basic design of every engine cooling system regardless of make or model.

    When ever there is excessive pressure and heat generated in the cooling system this can intensify and you can have a significant amount of coolant pushed into the overflow bottle.

    The engine finally cools and some of the coolant will pull back into the radiator. But if the coolant level in the radiator isn’t corrected the car will overheat again.

    An engine can overheat and push coolant into the overflow bottle or as a result of too much coolant being pushed into the bottle from pressure the engine can overheat from lack of coolant in the radiator. Take away some of the capacity of the cooling system and the engine will overheat.

    As to which caused what to happen here is what I suspect.

    On a very cold day the engine and more importantly the cylinder heads contract more so than on a moderate day, but the engine will warm up to normal operating temperature and the computer will maintain this temperature no matter what the outside conditions are.

    The increase in “range of expansion” can push a already suspect gasket over the edge.

    We always repair more head gaskets this time of the year than any other at the shop for this reason.

    There are other possibilities such as the coolant conditioner clogged your radiator, it over heated and pushed enough of the Subaru stop leak back out of the radiator to flow coolant again.

    I would caution you to not assume it is ok because it drove home after the one time event, as it always starts out like this.

    Justin

  1411. Justin, the shop told me that the leak was just coolant and it was the drivers side rear bank.

    Apparently the shop automatically puts in Subaru coolant conditioner with the 60K coolant flush/fill, so it is in the car.

    They said it is just barely leaking, and not enough to worry about doing anything yet. One concern I have though is that lately I have noticed a strong smell from the car during my morning warm-up. I believe it’s oil, but not positive. I recall that when I changed the spark plugs, the passenger side front bank spark plug wire boot(the long rubber cylinder thing that goes into the block and connects to the plug) came out with some oil on it. Any ideas or suggestions?
    Thanks!

  1412. Justin,

    I have aditional info in regard to question 226,227,230. In regard to motor oil and coolant, the issue seems to be fixed. The gasket kit is fine for now. However, now I seem to have a transmission fluid leak. I did not notice the fluid before having a reddish tint such as transmission fluid prior to the HG and other gaskets installed. Obviously a Chrysler shop was not the way to go even though I got a great deal. Any help would be appreciated….

  1413. Justin,
    I have a 2003 Legacy Outback, 58,000 miles. In September ’08 I had the radiator replaced by a local mechanic in response to overheating (he said he did a pressure test and coolant sprayed everywhere). Soon thereafter, I had a Subaru dealership perform the 60,000 mile recommended service. After the service, they said that the spark plug tubes looked like they’d need to be replaced soon. Yesterday (Jan. 17), at 5 degrees farenheit in Cleveland, Ohio, the car overheated after a getting off the freeway on our way home from the store.
    I stopped the car, opened the hood, the coolant reservoir was almost overflowing, and some had leaked out and was burning off. That was the only leak I could find. The car cooled down, and we drove home (10 miles) without further problems.
    This morning, after a night in sub-zero temperatures, the coolant level in the reservoir is still high at only an inch or two below the top. We 6 miles to church and back without overheating.
    Would you mind giving me your expert advice as to why the overflow is full, and the car overheated briefly and then drove just fine?
    Thanks,
    John

  1414. Justin,

    Unfortunately it seems to be leaking more, but from the same area. This was done by a Jeep shop, as SOA would not help out.

  1415. Dave from long Island,

    It’s hard to describe what to look for if you know what the replacement gaskets look like installed into the engine than it’s easy to tell, if you don’t its not a thing I can describe as it’s such a visual item not easily captured on film. Same thing on the location of oil and anti freeze, typically they collect on the cross member but can leak onto the rack, exhaust etc.

    As far as the gaskets you mention I would never install these, we use only the best parts available when making repairs and sell only the best parts as well. From experience we know what works and what doesn’t. Auto parts and repairs are not all created equal and while you will save some money initially with cheaper parts you will pay for it in the end or whoever ends up with the car will. It may not be a bad idea to have a head bolt around if one is found faulty; we have the advantage of being able to grab a used bolt out of a bolt bin if one is found to be stretched. Someone who does this repair a lot will immediately know what a stretched bolt feels like.

    Justin

  1416. Eric,

    Do you know if the leak is oil, coolant or both?

    I will be adding another article soon about some of the problems in regards to the conditioner,at this time I dont suggest putting it in.

    Justin

  1417. First off, great response from this site. To bad all were not the same.
    OK, here is what happened. 2003 outback 98,000 miles. I notice an oil
    leak, and burning oil smell. Shop says it’s the head and valve gaskets.
    Shop replaces them, and it still leaks in the same place. My understanding it was a complete gasket kit. Other than a
    poor job, what else could it be? The leak is on the drivers side over or around the exhaust. Any
    insight would be great….

    Wayne

  1418. Justin,
    Thanks for setting up this blog! It is full of great insight and expert Subaru advice that I have found very helpful!!!
    I’m a small used car dealer and have a 98 and 00 Outback Limited both stick shift and both with air bubbling in the overflow tank and the 00 also has some oil leaking at the back of the drivers side corner. I’m wondering if you’re familair with Eristic or Kabuki head gaskets. They are sold on Ebay for $82. and $74. a complete set. I’m also wonder if I should buy one set with the head bolts and are they the same bolts for both cars in case I happen to need them.
    I’m also wondering;
    1. what it is you look for to tell if a head gasket has been changed in the past?
    2. I know this might have been mentioned somewhere in the answers you have given but please repeat where are the usual locations of oil and antifreeze leaks are on 2nd. Generation engines?
    Thanks, Dave

  1419. Justin,

    I just took my 2004 Legacy L35 Sedan in for 60K service. I was informed of a minor external head gasket leak on the left side. Do you think I should add the coolant conditioner to my vehicle. So far I havn’t seen any info on problems with the 2004’s

    Thanks,
    Eric

  1420. Justin,

    When I got the car back they couldn’t print the workorder for it out for me due to a printer problem but they called me today and I picked up the paperwork today. Here’s what it said;

    TICKING FROM RI HEAD. R/R VALVE COVER GASKET/REPOSITION SPRING RETAINER FOR VVT#3 CYL.

    Could be catastrophic, eh. So it seems that it’s a good thing I didn’t take the Subaru on the road trip then.

    I prefer not to stir up hornets nests either and will let it go for now and won’t worry about it too much until the warranty is up. I still have one year bumper to bumper and three years for drive train. If I haven’t bought more warranty by then I still might consider trading in for a new Subaru before the DT warranty is finished.

    Thanks again for your help with this and if you have any final comment on the workorder notes I would appreciate it.

  1421. Subaru Sensei Justin,
    Hello from Tucson, AZ. I recently purchased an 04 Ru Forester and its a jewel. A couple of questions if you don’t mind about cooling issues.
    I bought the Ru w/63K from Emrich Subaru in Tucson. Great folks. They informed me that the 60K service was completed before it was put on the lot. I did ask for proof of the service begin done before I purchased. They mentioned the coolant was replaced during this service. First question, are they required by SOA to add the additive to the changed out coolant? Second question, what is the normal delta change between the top and lower section of the radiator when the thermostat is fully open with fans running? I got about a ~25-35F change with a heat gun. Sounds good or not?

    Also, went for a road trip yesterday and the temp ran just above the lower operating line while traveling at 75MPH for 2+ hours. Once I stopped/exited, the gauge spiked to just above the top operating line and it never looked back. I got back on the freeway and the gauge showed a decrease in temp. I would only assume that the coolant would stay the same or even cooler since the engine is under less of a load once you slow down. Third question, any thoughts on why this might have occured?

    1/10 – I did run the engine this morning, monitored the temp with my heat gun and did see the fans came on @ 170F – lower speed and @ 202F – higher speed. The delta was at ~25F.

    Thanks,
    Nick L.

  1422. David,

    Some of this doesn’t quite add up in regards to a missing valve spring retainer. I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest and maybe if its repaired now its better to just leave it alone.

    It is really hard for me to say if there was any damage done but what I will share with you is generally speaking a Broken or not installed retainer could be catastrophic.

    Justin

  1423. Hey Justin … Happy New Year!

    David from Canada with the 2006 Impreza here.

    So, just to refresh your memory … head gaskets replaced due to oil leak (covered under warranty of course) back just before Christmas which was immediately followed by an intermittent ticking noise that occured when accelerating hard (and slowing down using compression too) mostly between 2000 and 3000 rpm when I got the car back.

    I took your advice over my dealers advice and did not continue to drive it (except for a few kms back and forth to/from town). Borrowed my parents Ford Escape 4×4 (with brand new snow tires) for my road trip through the snowy snowy (and I do mean snowy) mountains down to the Vancouver (snow there too) for New Years. Got back home (just southwest of middle of nowhere in BC interior) early this week and dropped the Subaru off at the dealer this morning and here is how it went;

    The service guy said they had figured out what the problem was; cylinder #3 had a missing part from the valve assembly, pretty sure he called it a valve spring retainer(?) (described to me as a little metal cap on the valve spring when the look on my face gave away that I didn’t know what he was talking about). They fixed it, reassured me that no damage was done (and gave me the impression that no damage would have been likely either) and I had my car back a couple hours later.

    No more ticking! Very happy to have my Subaru back again but so I can better judge the honesty (and competence) of my dealership service department I have a couple more questions I would like your opinion on (please and thank you);

    Did the little bit of driving I did (driving like a little old lady and avoiding the hard acceleration and such that made the ticking noise occur) for maybe a hundred or so kms possibly cause any damage (and they just might be reluctant to tell me so as they seemed pretty embarrassed about leaving this thingy out during reassembly?)? And if I had continued to drive it for the big road trip (approx. thousand kms) would I have done any damage?

    Thanks again,
    David

  1424. Keith,

    Ignoring a problem will always cost more later. The engine it self will go 300k but it is common to have to fix leaks either internal or external.

    If you want to keep the car, fix it, but don’t fix it to sell it, cars are not assets, they are tools to help you make money like getting you to work.

    The idea behind fixing your car instead of buying a new one is to keep your money in the bank or to keep you out of debit. But you cant look at what the car is worth to sell in making a decision to fix it, it will almost never work out.

    As far as damage, usually if it is caught early there is never damage, but if you drove it 4 months with failed internal head gaskets until it quit there is probably damage of some type.

    I think when you decided to not fix it 4 months ago that is the decision you made and I would stick with it in this case and consider selling it for salvage as there are still good parts on it that could help keep other Subies on the road for less money.

    Justin

  1425. I have a 1996 Subary Legacy GT with a 2.5 engine. The heat has worked intermittently for the past 4 months. My mechanic diagnoed the problem as the head gasket. I decided not to repair the car since it has 120,000 miles on it. Two days ago the car overheated although the temperature gague did not indicate the car was hot. Apparently only the left side of the radiator got hot and the sensor is on the right. The radiator has cracked.

    Now the car it almost unsaleable.

    Question: Has any damage been done to the head. Is the car worth repairing and then reselling? What is the car worth in the condition it is in?

    Thanks

  1426. I have been looking at a 2003 Subaru Outback with 52K miles on it and a 2.5L engine. After reading most of these posts I am now VERY hesitant about purchasing it. I will want to keep it for at least 4-5 years and can’t really afford any major repairs. Any advice?

  1427. David,
    Mine is the previous Outback on this thread. After talking to SOA and supplying them with maintainence records from both the dealer and the independent shop I use, they replaced my head gaskets (and other related gaskets) for all but $500 which I paid. The downside, besides shelling out $500 I hadn’t anticipated, was the dealer did NOT replace the T-belt as they indicated they would. I think we all agree that opening the engine back up to replace the T-belt would be overkill now, but I did have them acknowledge in writing this was meant to be part of the service if they were replacing the gaskets anyway, saving money and time in the future. Thus I at least got documentation they took a bit of a short cut. This may (?) help me in the future when I actually go in for the timing belt service. In your case, if you have maintainence records, etc., you should contact SOA regarding your head gaskets. Also since you are basically at the 90K mark, make it clear with whomever does the service that T-belt should be replaced at the same time. Else you’ll be paying for all the labor again in the future to pull the engine apart for the T-belt. Just FYI. This is true regardless of whether you get help from SOA or not…that’s my view in any case.

  1428. Hi Justin,

    Thanks for taking the time to look at yet another coolant issue! We have a 2003 Legacy Outback (88K miles) that has developed many of the common problems associated with head gasket failure: Leaking coolant onto engine, funky ‘sweet smoke’ smell, bubbling in the reserve tank, greasiness & exhaust smells from the reserve tank, continiously lowering coolant levels (no mystery there) and erratic behavior of the heat indicator on the dash.

    I’ve read much about the 2003 issues, and I have a few questions: Would our car be covered under any warranty? Is the ‘coolant conditioner’ a realistic possible fix? Or is a full gasket replacement (along with your recommended other repairs) the likely scenario? Thanks for your time & happy new year!

    David

  1429. Justin,
    thanks for the reply….I spoke with SOA and they say they will consider an ‘out of warranty’ good will warranty. At least we’re talking which is always good. I can see the point that improper maintainence can cause issues, and I have documentation to show regular service (with some gaps in my receipts…but I can show all the major services at least). My point with SOA was/is that while maintainence clearly can contribute, the chatter on the web seems to at least anecdotally support continuing problems with the head gaskets in later models. Perhaps they’ve improved, but a poor design, for example, may make lapses in maintainence have greater consequences or a requirement for extra diligence to avoid issues to which the cars/engines are susceptible. That doesn’t mean that the design isn’t the problem, it just transfers more of the responsibility to the owner and one can buy an affordable car that has problems down the road or buy a car with a proven reliability record with fewer or less expensive problems as the car ages. So I wouldn’t think that special attention to fluids and maintainence should be any more of a factor than for other cars with better designed engines (seals in this case). Oil changes every 3000 miles seems to be overkill in my mind. Nevertheless, there is no excuse for poor maintainence other than the reasons one might buy an economically priced car might be the same reason someone doesn’t have $1000 to do the 60K service just when it’s required, so opts to get the oil changed instead until the next paycheck…..I blathering so thanks for the forum and the info! I love my Subaru, and hope this is not a trend…

  1430. Hey Jeff,

    I cant comment on why the independent was so much higher but except to say that we do see this quite often and sometimes are shocked at what the competition gets away with charging.

    The 2003 don’t have an active campaign as of yet and at this point I am not sure they will.

    I think Subaru really believes its a lack of maintenance and lack of understanding of the right fluids to use causing a significant portion of the failure.

    What I can honestly say about the 2nd generation 2.5l is the ones we service as we suggest don’t seem to develop as many issues as the ones serviced at whoever has the cheapest oil change price and maybe not as often as needed as well.

    I am not suggesting you haven’t taken care of your car only sharing our experience with the cars that come into the shop.

    We charge about $1360.00 to remove the engine and replace all seals and gaskets required to do the head gaskets right including oil, oil filter, coolant and fasteners.

    Add $60.00 for the t-belt and $133.00 for the timing belt tensioner if needed.

    Hope that helps some

    Justin

  1431. Julian,

    I do think the Subaru is worth repairing. But don’t think of it in a cost of repair versus value of the car it will never make sense. Think of it instead as spending some money on this one versus dropping 25k on a replacement vehicle.

    Justin

  1432. I was about to buy a used 1998 Subaru Outback from the local Subaru dealer and came across this link. It’s the best I’ve seen in explaining the problem with the head gaskets on these cars and putting my mind at ease that it’s fixable.

    Luckily, I tracked down the previous owner of the car. The car was serviced to the letter, it even has a brand new transmission. But, sure enough, the car overheated a few weeks ago and the coolant in the radiator was empty.

    The local mechanic couldn’t diagnose the problem after a pressure test. So, she traded the car on something else. I come along, I was just about to ink the deal and thought maybe I better Google this car and up came all these pages about the head gaskets.

    Evidently, the head gaskets on the 1998 Subaru are prone to failure but the new gaskets on the newer models are not because sometime a few years back Subaru redesigned the head gasket and they no longer fail according to several sources on the internet including this one:

    So, I took the car to a mechanic and had him test the coolant and sure enough there is exhaust in the coolant. He said the repair would be about $3,000. Ouch!!!

    I went back to the dealer and told them about the test. At first they wanted to show me some other Subaru Legacy cars of the same year. I said no-way, the engine will just fail.

    So, they asked what I wanted them to do. I asked, “why don’t you give me a deal on fixing the heads with the new type of gaskets since we caught the problem early.” I added, “you can sell the car this way, but that wouldn’t be very nice.” I also said, “I’m not going to be the buyer and you’ll get far less at auction than I will pay you for this car anyway.”

    They said OK it will be $1900.

    I said no deal.

    So, they finally agreed to do it for $1000.

    So, tomorrow, I’m getting a Subaru what will have an almost new transmission and a nearly rebuilt engine once it goes into the dealership’s shop probably next week sometime.

    They have to not only do the head gaskets, but replace the timing belt, install new seals and basically reseal the entire engine down to the oil pan.

    It’s obvious the original head gaskets on these cars will fail almost 100-percent of the time. If you’re going to buy one of these cars get the test done for hydrocarbons in the coolant before inking any deal.

    Then if the head is blown, make it the dealership’s problem. Make them fix it or don’t buy the car. I’m pretty confident with the head gaskets replaced with newly engineered ones from Subaru (not to mention a new transmission put in last year) that this car I’m getting is a pretty good deal for just over $5000.

  1433. I should add that for the price, the timing belt gets replaced at both shops as well since they’re opening things up already. Still not feeling like a bargain….

  1434. well, just to add to the list of readers with head gaskets issues….I just had my ’03 Outback serviced at 72K miles and was told I had two leaky head gaskets. I hadn’t noticed any symptoms but was told the oil pan was catching the oil that made it that far…and thus no spots on my garage floor to date. I was quoted a repair of $1425 at the dealer. I checked with another independent shop (very reputable) and was quoted $2500! I haven’t called Subaru yet, but intend to on Monday. My question(s), any update on whether the 2003’s have a recall in the works and why would there be such a huge discrepancy in the prices for replacing the head gaskets? 72K seems stil a little early with a properly maintained car to be doing this kind of work on….any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

  1435. Hi,
    Thanks for your very informative website on failing head gaskets. My 1997 Subaru Outback wagon has just over 136,000 miles. I discovered oil in the coolant reservoir yesterday. While my car has never over-heated, it recently did lose power. A local mechanic replaced the alternator and fan belt. He made no mention of possible other problems. From what I can tell I do need to replace the head gaskets. Do you think it is worth the cost for a car with 136,000 miles?

  1436. Hey Dave,

    The VVT is a tricky thing sometimes as a small piece of crud can really affect the whole system. This is usually from a rushed repair.

    I don’t agree with the drive it for a while thing, we have seen this cause more problems but if it is on them and they actually fix it then I guess it should be alright. Its just from all your posts I feel bad for you because they may have rushed this repair and it could be a reoccurring pain in the tail pipe.

    Justin

  1437. Hey Rich,

    I didn’t post this for a while because we have been talking on the phone as well.

    Yes the shop in question doesn’t really know Subaru’s as well as we do and I think that this is now obvious. While I don’t really think they meant to do as many things as they did without getting results its a story we hear all to often.

    I do hope you finally get to your destination.

    Justin

  1438. Hey Justin

    Noise diagnosis in just this morning, you will certainly understand it better than me (I just nodded and grunted);

    Sounds like, to the best of my recollection and understanding, variable valve timing and camshaft mumbo jumbo. They want it back for a day next year to tear it down and fix it and say it’s okay for me to drive it in the meantime.

    I also reported another burning fluid smell and it turned out to be a fine spray of power steering fluid, presumably from a loose connection.

    I am interested in your opinion on continuing to drive the vehicle if the vvt is out of whack. Thanks – D.

  1439. hi justin,
    been reading your blog about head gaskets and now it seems you are the only man i can trust!

    i will try to be brief:
    was on my way from los angeles to seattle and around myrtle creek oregon my 98 outback (i think it’s a 2.5l) started to over heat.
    pulled off as soon as possible. checked under the hood – it seemed like coolant had spurted out of the overflow bottle a little, but the fans were running and it didn’t feel that hot. it did have that burnt coolant smell.

    back on the road the temperature would spike on an incline and then come down to normal on the decline.

    got a tow to a little repair shop (the only one open on sunday 12/21)

    they said it was the thermostat. replaced that but that didn’t work. then they thought it was the water pump. as they removed the radiator they found that the radiator was clogged and that the coolant was not circulating around the engine. so they replaced the radiator. (took all day cause they were shipped the wrong one and they had to drive an hour to get the right one)

    now, having replaced the radiator the engine still overheats – not as fast but…

    so, the mechanics came and said they have bad news – i need a new head gasket and that i should probably buy a good used motor with paperwork.

    now, have i been hosed? (pun intended) i tend to think that these guys just don’t know subarus and went through a bunch of “normal” solutions. my question is: is it safe for me to drive the car to seattle to have your shop do the head gasket change or should i leave it with them and they can put in a new used motor? i’ve been sitting in limbo for two days – i’m supposed to have picked up my wife in seattle and gone to northern idaho for the holidays!

    thanks, rich

  1440. Hey Steven,

    The Impreza L will have a 2.2l which doesn’t have the same type of gaskets that fail more often in the GT with the 2.5l as long as it has been maintained that is.

    The GT will have a DOHC 2.5l, which I actually really like the motor itself.

    The Impreza will have a SOHC 2.2l which is a good engine minus one thing, this could get a bit confusing but from 1995 to mid year 1998 the 2.2l in the Impreza was made two ways, dual port and single port exhaust. Meaning the exhaust ports out of the heads may be either design. I do not like the single port exhaust cylinder heads for a host of reasons.

    Other than that either one should serve you pretty well.

    The GT will be a little more fun to drive, the Impreza better on fuel

    Justin

  1441. Hi Jenelle,

    The diagnoses is probably accurate, but I really would be hesitant at the repairs being made at a Dealership especially a non Subaru One, that is a recipe for short lived repair life in my opinion.

    What part of the country are you in? Maybe there is a good independent shop that may be better suited to service and repair the Subaru and most likely for a little less money.

    Justin

  1442. Hi Justin,

    Don’t know where to turn…I bought a used 2004 Subaru Outback Legacy Sedan last year. I smelled anti-freeze and noticed it was totally empty. I added coolant and took it to the nearest garage. They checked and changed the oil and saw nothing. I called the dealer (not a subaru) where I bought it. They put a dye in it to see where the coolant was going and told me to drive it for a few days. They said it was either the waterpump or the head gasket. Now they say it’s the head gasket and it will cost around $2,000 to fix it. Is this normal for the 2004’s and does this diagnosis sound correct? Thanks.

  1443. Justin,

    I have been looking at buying a used 1998 Subaru Impreza L, and a used Subaru Legacy GT, also 1998.

    What differences are there inherent in the two different motors, in terms of a near future head gasket (and other multiple part) repairs? Also, which of the two models would you personally recommend? The impreza has 130k and the legacy gt has 160k.

    I know that I will have to put a few grand into either one, but which is better for the money???

    Thanks ahead of time for any help you can provide with this matter.

    Steven H. in IL.

  1444. And after a longer drive home (and dinner) and running it in the relative warmth (-30 celcius up here right now) of the garage and then driving up and down the road again;

    I would describe it more as a ticking noise than a rattle. Mostly happening between 2000 and 3000 rpms while driving (couldn’t get up to 5th gear here … winter roads). Happens when speeding up and when slowing down with compression. Does not seem to happen when idling and revving (but I will see if neutral or clutch makes a difference for the idle/rev test.

    Tomorrow I will leave for work a bit early and take a detour on the highway and see about 5th gear and higher rpms. Will also see if it speeds up with higher rpms or not as thinking about it now I can’t be sure if the ticking speed corresponds with rpms, faster tick at high rpm and slower tick at low rpm. Right now, to the best of my recollection it does change in frequency along with the rpm.

    Hopefully the dealer can take a look at it first thing tomorrow because I plan to stop there on the way to work and convince them to drive with me to work to hear the noise and then take it back to the shop with them and fix it.

  1445. Hey Justin

    Update on the 2006 Impreza head gasket leak; confirmed to be a small external oil leak on the left side.

    I talked to the mechanic and service manager and they blame it on a bad gasket. I hope they are right.

    Anyways, happy to have my car back. Git it late this afternoon and took it for a drive. Seems okay, but there might be a rattle type noise that wasn’t there before. I can make the noise happen driving or idling and will make notes on RPMs and so on so when I visit the dealer tomorrow I can pass that info on. Hope they can find it easy and tighten down whatever seems to be loose. Maybe exhaust or heat shield?

  1446. Dave,

    We really have only heard of a small hand full of leaks on 2005 and newer cars.

    I can’t say if it is a fluke at this point but the km is very low to have this issue.

    What I can tell you is we see lots of 05 and newer with high miles already and no issues.

    Part of all of us learning about problems is by people such as your self sharing your experience, if in a few months or a year or so the number of people complaining of an issue goes up thats really part of how we will know, we will of course try to keep our readers informed about what we see at the shop as well.

    Justin

  1447. Hey David,

    The first gen 2.5l will be DOHC (Dual over head cam) and was used in the Legacy Outback from 1996 to 1999. And is the engine in a 1999 Legacy GT as well.

    Someone that knows Subaru can look at the parts of the head gasket exposed and see if it is the replacement gasket, or at least its always obvious to us.

    If you can find a good Independent Subaru shop in your area that will be your best bet for service.

    I have been working on a article describing the gaskets we use that permanently fixes the problem. Stay tuned here and there, and if you have to have them done maybe request the gaskets be used. Please don’t try any Voodoo in a bottle it will only cost you more later.

    Justin

  1448. Clint,

    did you call SOA or just talk to the dealer?

    Any ways both head gaskets should really be done, it is just silly to leave the right side head gasket to leak later.

    Justin

  1449. (I think my first post here got lost. So here it goes again in a new and improved and longer version. Sorry if this is a double post.)

    Great forum here, Justin. Keep it up!

    I have a 2006 Impreza RS (with 36000 kilometers). I am a first time Subaru owner and really enjoying it until today. After noticing a burning smell I took my car to my Subaru dealer to be told that I have a head gasket leak but not to worry as it was covered by warranty and they reassured me that I had caught it early.

    I have since confirmed they are pulling the engine and replacing the gaskets on both sides (not sure if the leak {and its exact nature} was on one side or the other).

    I will ask more questions for the dealer tomorrow and have this forum to thank for the knowledge to ask good questions.

    For example; Is this a fluke and why did it happen? After all this is a car that is only 2 years old and dealer serviced all the way. It was in for a oil/filter change and service check with complimentary wash and vac about 6 weeks ago and everything was great then.

    I am already considering trading it in before the warranty is up or buying more extended warranty before the deadline to do that expires, provided it covers the head gaskets, and then eventually trading it before that runs out. I would hope to go with another Subaru but I really need convincing that this problem has been fixed.

    I will be happy to be back in my Subaru in a couple days and even happier if this never happens again.

  1450. Excellent forum you have here, Justin. Keep up the good work!

    I have a 2006 Impreza RS with 36,000 kms (metric … I know …I live in Canada) and over the past few days noticed a burning oil smell after the drive home (up a mountain).

    Brought it to my Subaru dealer today and they reported back that they found a small external oil leak (didn’t say which side) and are replacing the head gasket on both sides (under warranty of course).

    Goes to show that even a relatively new Subaru can have a problem. Glad that I caught it early before it developed into a more serious problem and happy that my dealer is doing it right by pulling the engine and doing both sides.

  1451. Hey I am looking into a used 1999 Subaru Legacy GT 2.5 4dr sedan, Manufacture Date of June 1998.
    Only has 78,000 miles on it now !

    4 questions:

    How can I tell which Phase(generation) the engine is ?

    How can I tell if the engine did or didn’t receive the latest head gasket?

    If I do get it, should I go to an independent Subaru dealership and see how much it would be to preventively take care of that ?

    Has anyone heard of Steel Seal? Legit? Would it work in a Subaru? or don’t bother with that preventively?

    [Carfax is clean and didn’t report any recall or headgasket information :o( ]

    Thank you all !

  1452. I have a 2003 legacy L with 49,000 miles on it I bought it used and have no way of showing proper maintenance records so SOA said they could not do any warranty work on my leaking head gaskets. Anyway my question was should I have both sides done now or only the left side that is leaking I talked to a number of shops some say do both and others say just fix the one side. I don’t want to be back in the shop doing this again in 10,000 miles.

  1453. Chris,

    Call SOA the number is in the Warranty and Maintenance portion of your owners manual. I would be asking for complete coverage or at least some participation on their part. I wouldn’t pursue it at the dealership level.

    It is not yet three months out of the 5 yr 60k power train warranty and I would be pointing this out. If they are leaking bad enough to need replaced now, they had to be leaking out some fluid two months ago.

    When was the last time a Technician had viewed the car? Keep in mind hind sight is always 20/20 but this is exactly why I suggest an independent Subaru shop look at the car prior to the warranty expiring.

    I really think if you make a honest attempt at fighting for warranty assistance you will get it in this case.

    Justin

  1454. hi justin…i own a 2003 subaru legacy l with 40,000.00 miles..delivery date on car is sept 25 2003…i’m just shy of warranty…well, now head gaskets are leaking / something with water pump / i’m soo upset rite now…i’ve taken care of my car..oil changes 3-4000 miles…the dealership is telling me 2,300. to fix….i just don’t understand…do u have any advise for me?

  1455. Hey Cole,

    We see plenty of 2nd generation 2.5l with an overheating condition from failed head gaskets, the repairs are the same except that more attention needs to be placed on the possibility of head warpage but that’s not that big a deal.

    When the head gaskets fail internally and the car overheats, the water pump, thermostat, and coolant temperature sensor may have suffered some damage as a result of being subjected to temperatures they were never designed for. The cooling hoses should also be inspected but really even if it is just a external leak all these things should be inspected anyways, it’s just at our shop we would encourage you to replace then more so in a car that has overheated than one that is just leaking out externally.

    Justin

  1456. Hey Cindy,

    Great mileage! You must have taken good care of your car, thanks for sharing your experience as I feel it’s really important to hear from other people besides myself that not everyone has a problem at 60,000 miles.

    There may be no reason to replace the engine; it may just need new gaskets.
    A compression test won’t tell you much other than the cylinder compression. There are lots of possibilities but a good Technician that knows Subaru should have no trouble coming to the proper conclusion.

    There isn’t a reman or rebuilt engine I would ever suggest other than a factory Subaru shortblock (which is just the lower end of the engine) A new shortblock would still require the cylinder head be rebuilt and installed on the new short block along with new gaskets, seals, water pump, and timing belt.

    Doing all of this would make the engine like new and should last the same 277k the first one did.

    I am of course of the opinion you should fix it but that really comes from the belief that the new technology vehicles are around the corner and waiting for one of those cars makes more sense than a newer $25,000 version of what you already have does.

    Justin

  1457. Hey Mark,

    So right off the bat I don’t suggest any modification of the block or cylinder heads. There isn’t a lot of material to mess around with and the surface has to be smooth and even to allow the head gasket to “crush” evenly.

    The low mile Japanese engines are bad news as you have discovered.
    We have helped quite a few people do their own repairs; we do sell head gasket kits and offer tech support to help you along the way. We use a combination of O.E Subaru parts and Japanese parts from suppliers that do not sell parts in a retail establishment.

    We also have started using a different head gasket from the O.E. replacement. I will be showcasing this gasket design in a future article if I ever get the time.

    The head bolts should be fine, every once and awhile we may get a lone head bolt that is stretched but it is rare.
    If you have any interest in parts and help there is a parts price request form here.

    https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-parts/

    Justin

  1458. Hey Dave,

    Sounds frustrating, I know hind sight is always 20/20 but I always try to stress that it’s so important when dealing with the service department at an auto Dealership to understand it is there job to say no to repairs that could still be good willed or there is a campaign to take care of customers who figure out ways to navigate through closed doors of “it’s out of warranty” to get a better result.

    I want to stress to all of our readers that it’s always worth a call either to someone like us that may have some advice or to someone higher up on the chain than the dealer service advisor.
    I might suggest calling and talking to SOA and ask for some participation in the first set of repairs. We have had customers get around $700.00 from SOA for repairs made at other shops for cars that should have been done under warranty. If you have documentation that a Subaru dealer told you a leaky head gasket wasn’t covered or wouldn’t be “good willed” I think that is worth an hour of your life, but due to the time that has elapsed it may be an hour you will never get back.

    There is no reason to settle for a repair that only lasts 35,000 miles and yes the timing belt and such should probably be done.

    As far as should the engine be pulled out to do the repairs the answer is always going to be yes, and the shop shouldn’t charge anything in addition to do the repairs properly or at least that is our philosophy and we have helped a few people find shops that were willing to do the repairs properly in their part of town.

    Justin

  1459. Justin,
    I have a 2002 Subaru Impreza TS with a 2.5 liter engine. I understand this to be the second generation engine, which typically experiences an external head gasket leak. My problem is that all signs of my problem seem to be better described by an internal head gasket leak, typical of the first generation 2.5 (intermittent overheating on long trips/hard pulls, overheating including fluid pushed out of the overflow tank, no apparent external leak, ect). I had the radiator tested positive for exhaust gasses as well. From this description would you think this is an internal leak? Can you describe the difference between the two problems in terms of the repair required? Thanks.
    Cole

  1460. Justin,
    Thanks for all the great info. My 2001 Subaru Forester has 277,760 miles on it and from what I’ve read it sounds like I finally have a head gasket problem. In the past week my car intermittently overheats, I can turn it off, let it sit for about 5 minutes and do this 2-3 times, then it starts right up, the heater will finally blow warm air and the temp immediately cools off to its normal position. I had someone suggest it might be a sensor rather than the head gasket, or maybe loose, damaged, wet or dirty connectors or a shorted wire. I have an appointment with my mechanic on Monday. In order to rule out or confirm a gasket problem, do I have him run a compression test? It’s been a great car, and I’ve kept it well maintained. Is it worth replacing the engine rather than shelling out the money for new wheels?? What’s a new engine run?? Thanks for your help and advice in advance
    Cindy

  1461. Hi Justin,
    Fantastic service maintaining this thread for so long. I have a 1999 Outback wagon that had a big time head gasket blowout and 20 minute overhead (I wasn’t there when it happened). Anyway, the car was torn down by a shop in Bakersfield (who incidentally threw all the cam bearings, bolts, lifters and everything in the same box, unlabelled). I figured that engine was a loss and installed a “low mileage” Japanese surplus one. It’s had the intermittent overheating and bubbling in the coolant reservoir symptoms right from startup, so I’m sort of back to square one now.

    I’m going to do the work myself, (I’ll label and methodically disassemble) but I’m wondering if you think I should get the heads pressure tested/resurfaced and the block resurfaced as a matter of course, too? (It has had 2 overheating episodes both for a few minutes, no noises were heard) Also, what’s your opinion on having having small webs welded across the open deck or o-ring grooves on head or block to increase sealing performance? The car is old enough to not care about voiding a warranty. Finally can you comment whether used headbolts are ok to reuse?

    Thanks,
    Mark M.

  1462. Hi Justin,
    My wife purchased a 2004 Subaru Outback wagon new from Five Star Subaru in Oneonta, NY in September of 2003. She lives in Virginia now, but was visiting in Oneonta in December of 2006 between Christmas and New Years when the head gasket blew. Fortunately she noticed the soaring engine temp gauge and stopped driving. She called Five Star Subaru and they told her it was out of warranty since the car had 67,000 miles and the warranty expired at 60,000 and that she would have to pay to replace the head gaskets. They also said that they couldn’t repair it that week, so my wife had it repaired at an independent shop, because she had to be back in Virgina right after New Years. The garage that did the repair said that it was a common problem and swore that the new gaskets would solve the problem for good.
    Now the car has a little over 100,000 miles and she was just informed by her mechanic here in Virginia that both head gaskets are leaking oil externally and need to be replaced. I suggested that she call SOA and explain the situation. They just said that there was no way to confirm her story and that she didn’t have the repair done at a dealer. Then I did some research and found your (great!) website. I read every question and response yesterday and feel much better informed about the problem now.
    My questions are 1) Is this worth pursuing further with SOA? My wife’s own dealer probably lied to her, for they probably knew that Subaru would have honored the warranty even though it was 7000 miles over the 60,000, though only 3 years old. They also probably knew that by saying they couldn’t do the repair that week anyway that she would be forced to take the car to an independent garage and that they would be off the hook for the repair forever, as would SOA.
    2) The timing belt and water pump were replaced at the first repair. Would you suggest replacing them again now, or should we just wait until the next leaky gasket two years and 35,000 miles from now?
    3) You emphasize the importance of removing the engine from the car to get a clean surface for the gaskets. I don’t know whether this was done at the first repair. Should we insist on it for this repair? How much more would this add to the repair cost versus leaving the engine in the car. The current estimate is $1850 including the gasket set.
    4) At the very least, shouldn’t Subaru provide the new gasket set and bolts for free? The repair shop says that is about $325 of the repair cost.
    Thank you for the extremely informative website.
    Sincerely,
    Dave

  1463. Hey Matt,

    Thanks for the feedback on our website.
    So to answer your question in regards to the difference in repair techniques and the difference in longevity I will try and explain the key differences in the two different techniques.

    Out of the car repair lends itself to better control over the cleaning of the block surface, the torque of the head bolts and allows you to tilt the engine away from the surface being cleaned or gasket installed to which prevents fluids from coming into contact with the mating surface and gasket. Add to that the advantage you have in viewing the gasket surface of the block and can use a longer sanding block as there is nothing in your way. In the car the size of the sanding block is limited due to the frame, core support and transmission being in the way which is why many will use a “Whiz Wheel” to clean the surface which is a huge mistake.

    On a H4 no matter how hard you try it is almost impossible to not have a drip of oil come out of the block before you can install the gasket, cylinder head, torque the bolts, back the bolts off, torque the bolts again, then do the two stages of 90 degree turns . You could wait a few days and maybe gravity will have finally allowed all of the oil that wants to drip out to drip out but that is pretty unreasonable.

    In the car the torque procedure is extremely clumsy and not as precise as measuring 90 degrees in the car is difficult and time consuming, which is huge, the difference in time of the torque procedure can crate uneven clamping force and not crush the gasket smoothly which is a contributing factor in gasket failure.

    By the time you have removed everything required to remove the heads from the engine I the car you are 4 bell housing bolts, 4 torque convertor bolts & two motor mount nuts away from pulling the engine out. Once out you will more than make up for the additional time spent in removing the engine in the speed of repairs and have the added benefit of a better repair.

    Justin

  1464. Andrew,

    The 2.0l is a brick, it uses a different style head gasket first off and typically most turbo owners dont stretch their oil changes out 7 and 8k.

    I can count on one hand as of now the number of 2002 to 2005 2.0l we have seen with a external head gasket leak and only one as of yet with internal head gasket failure that one had 120k and was driven with no coolant from a ignored radiator leak.

    Justin

  1465. Hey Mark,

    A let go to long coolant leak at the head gasket can pit and corrode the aluminum surface of the cylinder head or worse the engine block from which they were sealed away from by the head gasket. This is not all that common but we have seen it and only on the ones that went to long before they were repaired.

    If you want to keep the car and keep the $25,000 a new one costs in the bank I would encourage you to repair it sooner rather than later.

    Justin

  1466. Hey Doug,

    That sounds frustrating. It sounds to me like there is an air pocket that is not being bled out properly or an air pocket is forming due to a possible missed step in the head gasket repair. Or maybe they used an aftermarket thermostat?

    It is really hard to say for sure but the big clue is the cold out of the heater, this is usually a low coolant condition or an air pocket of some sort.

    Justin

  1467. Hi Justin,

    I have a 1997 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT. It began overheating intermittently last December. When the car would overheat, the coolant would back up into the reservoir and out into the engine. The heater was also blowing cold air when this happened.

    The shop I took it to back then told me it was just an air pocket. The problem re-occurred a few times over the last year and I would always let the engine cool off, burp the radiator add coolant and be on my way.

    A few weeks ago the car began to lose compression as well. I took the car to a different import specialist in the area and he diagnosed the head gasket issue. He replaced the head gaskets, sent the heads out to be machined, and replaced the water pump, thermostat, timing belt, spark plugs, cam seals, and the radiator cap.

    I drove the car for less than a day before it over heated again. The good news is that the compression issues appear to have been resolved.

    Next, he replaced the radiator. I drove it for less than 5 minutes before it over heated again. He has now taken everything apart for a re-inspection but has found no signs of a leak. He is thinking that perhaps there is a bad sensor causing the problem. Do you think that is possible?

    The only other factors that I can think of is that the fans themselves have not been replaced but appear to be working. The battery is old and gets corrosion easily though I try to keep that clean. There may be some problems with the electrical system, but I am not sure. My head lights burn out every few months and my cigarette lighter doesn’t seem to give off adequate voltage (I can’t charge a cell phone from it). I don’t know if those would affect the overheating issue but I thought I would mention them.

    Any thoughts you might have at this point would be appreciated. My car has been in the shop for about 7 weeks now and this is getting very old and expensive.

  1468. Hi Justin –

    Great site, and from what I can tell nice repair shop too. I know from experience how hard it is to guide people towards doing things the right way in auto repair. The best way to keep the trust of a good customer base is, IMHO, to be as open and educational as possible. It obviously takes a lot of time being so diligent and generous with your blog, so kudos to you.

    If you please, with the ’97 Legacy 2.5 A/T in mind could you explain the differences between engine-in-the-car and engine-out-of-the-car HG replacement that are significant to the life of the repair? Also, are there any bullet points or potential difficulties to this job that one should be aware of?

    Thanx much for your time,

    M

  1469. Hi,

    Excellent post! Have you guys replaced any headgaskets at a significant rate on the 2002-2005 2.0L WRX/Saab 92x engine?

  1470. Justin
    I have a 2000 outback with a left leaking HG and 154,000 miles. Its been leaking for the last 45,000 miles. Seems to be an external leak – the only symptom, other than my mechanic seeing it, is a sweet burning smell which is noticed only in the winter at idle. No smoke, no puddles on my garage floor, no oder in warm weather. My mechanic suggested I decide if I want to unload the car now or commit to it for the long haul, which is what I usually do. I’m tempted to get the HG replaced – I like the car and I like not having payments – but am also thinking it might be worth rolling the dice and see if I get 225 to 240 miles out of it, which is all I’ve ever gotten from a subaru. What are your thoughts if I just changed the coolant and put in the conditioner on some regular schedule?

    Thanks for the great site and info.

  1471. Oh, they did the timing belt tensioner as well. They have made every attempt to be thorough as near as I can tell with my limited experience.

  1472. Justin,

    I have a 1997 Subaru Legacy GT 2.5. I had been experiencing intermittent overheating and a loss of compression so I took the car to a local repair shop. Both head gaskets have been replaced and the heads machined. I know that the following items have been replaced:

    Water pump
    Timing belt
    Radiator
    Radiator cap
    Spark plugs
    All applicable seals
    Thermostat

    Subaru parts have been used for most of these items. The mechanic is careful to try to avoid after market parts whenever possible.

    At this point, the compression issue has been resolved, but the over heating issue persists. The repair shop is being really good about standing behind their work, they have taken the whole thing back apart and are re-inspecting their repair job but so far haven’t identified the cause of the overheating. The overheating is still intermittent so its been hard to diagnose. They are looking at a rear sensor that they think may be causing the fans to not run sporadically, but I am not sure that they aren’t just guessing at this point.

    When the car is overheating it frequently blows cold air from the heater. The battery is old and corrodes quickly but I try to keep it clean and the repair shop cleaned it up again and replaced the terminal connectors as well. Do you have any suggestions that I could pass along to them?

  1473. Thanks for your response. I think I might have confused you with all of my questions, I apoligize. I all ready had the timing belt changed along with the water pump, crankshaft seal and camshaft seal all at once for $615. The price of $2600+ is for both HG, timing belt tensioner, the a/c belt, and alt-p/s belt only. As for the catalyist price that is just for some front pipe gaskets and not including a catalytic converter at all. I saw the other blog about the power steering noise and will try those suggestions and see if it helps. The dealer is also suggesting I replace the thermostat even though their is no problem with it. What do you think? Is it very invasive to replace this when it does fail? Thanks again for your time.

  1474. Hey Jason,

    Its always worth a try. But this just always proves my point that most likely the Dealer made the repairs in the car and they just don’t last.

    If it ends up being on you I strongly suggest trying a good independent Subaru repair shop.

    Justin

  1475. 03 subaru outback, dealer replaced HGs at 48k, covered by Subaru. Now at 98k I am smelling antifreeze again. Should I call SOA to ask about them covering this? I hate to spend lots of $$ when the car requires hg replacement twice in under 100k miles.

  1476. Hello Wisconsin Subaru Owner,

    That is a lot of questions; I will try and do my best to answer all of them.

    So the price does seem high unless it includes all of the other items you have mentioned.

    Right off the bat the muffler whistle should just be ignored, the pulley for the power steering pump should move in and out to an extent, I can’t tell you if your Subaru is within a normal range.

    The timing belt comes off when the head gaskets are done do not skip the tensioner.

    The ball joint price seems high, the catalyst price low.

    Here is the thing it is scheduled to have a timing belt done at 105k that is probably about$500.00 or so where you are?

    Subtract that amount form the head gasket price and that should help take a little bit of the sting away.

    I suspect the shutter when turning is related to the belt install.

  1477. The local dealer here in Northern NH fixed the right head gasket and the catalytic converter on my 2004 Legacy wagon and all I did was ask. There was no need to be persistent or raise my voice. Basically I was told that if the mileage was under 100,000 (it was 78,650) Subaru would fix it as part of a “Goodwill Program”. They did and there were no hassles.

  1478. Hi Justin,
    Thanks for helping out all of us Subaru owners out here. I have looked around alot on the internet and your site is by far the best and most informative I’ve come across. I’m looking for a little help. I have a 2000 Outback 2.5l with 105K on it. I bought it used with 92K. I took it to the local Subaru dealer here in southeastern Wisconsin to have the timing belt, water pump, crankshaft and camshaft seals replaced. I declined a recommended timing belt tensioner at the time due to monetary constrants. The dealership told me I needed the HG replaced (already knew that). I got a estimate for the HG, a/c belt, p/s-alt belt, timing belt tensioner, and thermostat. They quoted me over $2600. This seems a little outrageous to me! Everything I see on here is about $1300-$1500 for HG. Do they have to take off the timing belt to do a HG repair? They also said I need the lower ball joints replaced $456 , front catalytic converter pipe exhaust gaskets replace $558, power steering flush $90, new muffler for a whistle noise and a new battery. I have also replaced both front cv axles due to torn boots. The a/c belt and p/s-alt belt were replaced by me with some aftermarket belts and now at low speeds (5-10 mph) under no acceleration the steering wheel shutters pretty bad when you turn it. The flywheel for the p/s steering pump will wiggle when it is pulled by hand. Is the pump bad? Can just the flywheel be replaced? Will a power steering flush fix this? It never did this before. Do you have to have the coolant conditioner added after a HG is replaced? As you can see this is adding up to alot of money when times are very tight. I like the Subaru and I’m hoping to get 300K out of this car. I know that all cars will need some sort of maintanence and I keep good care of my cars. What are your suggestions? Any information would be helpful. Thanks for your time. I wished I lived by you guys right now!

  1479. Alice,

    The additive is really a band aid. What we have seen now is on cars that have had it put in multiple times as specified by Subaru at each occurrence the cooling system is serviced the radiator can be come clogged.

    The only real fix is education about proper maintenance and replacing the head gaskets if they should fail

  1480. I right now am looking at Outbacks between the years of 1998-2002. I’ll admit mostly cause these are the ones that fall in my price range (else I’d just buy a 2003 and avoid the gasket problem). Now, I kinda understand the repair that would happen for the 1999 and previous models. But as for the 2000-2002 models from what I understand Subaru wants people to just add some additive which seems kinda hackish to me? Is this really a fix for the problem or is there a real fix that you would recomend over Subaru’s fix?

  1481. Hey Peter,

    The 2000 Impreza with the 2.2l is one of the best Subaru’s built.

    The 2.2l will get a little better economy than the newer 2.5l as well.

    I also really like the 2002 to 2004 Impreza Outback sport as well.

    Your plan sounds very solid to me. I would suspect spark plug tube extension seals to be starting to leak at that mileage, which is a very correctable situation.

    Also depending on which model Impreza, it may still have the cable operated clutch which is still the best design Subaru had in my opinion. A lot less to go wrong.

    Typically a 2000 with the 2.2l would be a cable operated clutch

    The mileage is about right and finding another car like that may be tough task.

    Justin

  1482. Chris,
    Right off the bat anyone telling you to ignore a knock sensor code is flat out a missing how the system works and giving you some of the worse advise I have ever heard this week, and proves my point that over half of the industry has no real idea what is what in regards to a 1996 and newer vehicle with OBDII emissions.

    PO 328 knock sensor circuit input problem should not be ignored. It is a crucial part of your Engine management system. The ECM (Engine Control Module) advances the timing until the engine starts to ping, as the engine begins to ping the Knock sensor will emit a frequency that the ECM will see, and retard the timing until the ping subsides. This is done in milliseconds.
    In the event of a failed sensor or circuit the ECM will go to a fixed set of values and no longer make precise engine management adjustments.

    This is why the car still seems to run fine but you are cheating yourself in longevity. The effects of a failed knock sensor can’t be measured in short term thinking but over time the engine will suffer from not being controlled in a precise manor.

    Another words instead of looking at load data, rpm, and gear input, and throttle position, air flow or map values and knock value. The ECM will revert to the PROM (Programmed read only memory) and at 10% load the timing will be this value, not the timing is advanced at this load value until ping observed. This is the reason your Subaru doesn’t have a distributer, rather than a mechanical device stuck to a fixed value your Forester needs to have much more precision.

    Next, has anyone ever told you about the effects on the rest of the emissions monitoring devices while the CEL is commanded on by the ECM?

    This can and will create uneven combustion temperatures, detract from the ability for the engine to burn all of the fuel entering the cylinders. Increase the tail pipe emissions, decrease fuel economy not in miles per gallon but by a few miles a tank. Increase the chance that the vehicle is impacting the environment more so than if it is repaired.

    The knock sensor is $90.00 U.S. and the labor is .5 of one hour say $50.00 at best.

    Ignoring a failed knock sensor can increase the chance of damaging the Catalyst, damaging the head gaskets, damaging the internal parts of the engine, polluting the environment.

    The only code I feel that may be of little concern is the catalyst code as most times it is set in reaction to the ECM not seeing an increase in oxygen readings from the second O2 sensor in relation to the readings from the 1st O2 sensor. We usually suggest a catalyst efficiency test, which 90% of the trade has no idea how to perform. We then look at the actual tail pipe readings and make suggestions based on tests rather than telling you without doing any tests its fine.

    Po420 Catalyst efficiency below threshold is a common code and the single most misdiagnosed code there is as it is a conditional code and not a component code. Meaning that guessing won’t do, only results from a real analysis.

    As far as the potential head gasket leak, it’s really hard to advise you there. A external oil leak is quite different from a internal combustion to coolant leak. I can’t say for sure why there is such a variance in opinion from shop to shop but I am already worried about the advice you have been given in regards to the check engine light and wonder if there is any real value to any of the advice that you have been given up until now.

    The number one cause of a failed catalyst or 02 sensor causing a catalyst code is coolant from a failed head gasket leaking internally to the combustion chamber and out of the exhaust valve into the exhaust, where it makes contact with the 02 sensors, and the three precious metals in the Catalyst none of which was ever factored into the design of those components.

    I have no idea what your long and short term goals are for the Subaru. If it is a car you can see yourself keeping for 300k or longer than I would try a different approach than the one being used now and yes maybe it is time for a different shop to be involved.

    Justin

  1483. Hi Justin,
    Great site – I stumbled on it researching used Subarus. My daughter moved to Lake Tahoe, CA and needs an AWD car. This morning I looked at a very clean 2000 Impreza Outback Sport Wagon with 117k miles. It drives well, the coolant overflow is clean, no apparent leaks underneath the car. Original timing belt and water pump, original clutch, even the original battery, all of which leads me to believe that the car has had an easy life. I was looking for something a bit newer, but I think that the 2.2l engine in this car might be a better bet than a 2002 Impreza with the 2.5l engine. If I purchased this car I’d have a dealer do the 120k service and also the timing belt and water pump. I’d also get a new battery. Thoughts?
    Thanks, Peter
    San Francisco, CA

  1484. 2002 Subaru Forester L model. Did the “conditioner” recall in 2004. Always did oil changes at required intervals. At just over 160,000km now (Subaru of Canada says no extended warranty on head gasket leaks in Canada). For last two years, CEL comes on intermittently for a few days at a time with P0328 (knock sensor high), and I have been told to ignore by various mechanics as there seems to be no performance or mileage issues – to be honest the car runs great. Recently now getting a second CEL code – catalytic converter. CEL still turns on and off on its own every few days (let’s say it’s on for four days straight, then off for a 1.5 days). Noticed coolant in reservoir to be a little more “blackish” than normal green. Took it to local mechanic who said everything was fine. Took it to dealership to have coolant changed (and get the “conditioner” added) and they claim there are multiple oil leaks in the engine on the whole, and the head gasket needs replacing due to external oil leaks on both sides. Took it back to local mechanic who looked again knowing Subaru diagnosis and claims everything is fine and no repair is required. Having changed the coolant now, I can see how dark the old coolant was compared to the new stuff – so I’m wondering who’s right here. I don’t see the oil that the Subaru techs are describing – having looked from above, and even having looked underneath on a hoist. Oil looks good on dipstick (changed it just three weeks ago), and coolant in rad looked fine even back when reservoir coolant looked dark. Thinking about taking the Forester to a third person for another opinion, but I’m feeling a little torn – especially knowing the history of this engine with head gasket leaks. Is there a definitive test a third mechanic could do for me? Should I wait and see if new coolant turns blackish? Thanks in advance….

  1485. 2004 Subaru Outback, 67K miles. Head gasket just went and after following the advice hear of calling SOA and being pretty persistent with the dealer, Subaru is covering everything.

  1486. Brian,

    It’s too hard to say for sure how the 05 and newer will hold up. Two frames of thought here. The first is I truly believe if any car is maintained based on how you use the car and not on any preconceived schedule based on a theoretical set of driving conditions it won’t develop head gasket issues. To me having a 1996 and newer OBDII emissions equipped vehicle go 200k without needing head gaskets is very good use. And I would suggest you have taken good care of the Subaru.

    The second is if you owned your car from new you were in control of all of the maintenance, if you bought it used you were very lucky that the first owner took great care of it as well. Buying another used car may not have the same result.

    I think if you fix it you can expect another 100 to 150k with low ownership costs, or if you by another one you should expect close to the same results all dependent on how well it has been maintained.

    Justin

  1487. Hey Brian,

    Anything short of just biting the bullet, pulling the engine out and replacing the Head Gaskets is just a short term fix if a fix at all. Any additive can and will restrict coolant flow in the radiator or heater core if it happens to harden in the cores ( which does happen) we have seen this over and over.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if the head gaskets are faulty it really just needs to be repaired.

    Justin

  1488. Justin,

    Have you ever used or heard of anyone using Thermagasket as a stop gap for an internal leak of a head gasket on a 1997 Outback? Was it at all helpful? Is there a downside to trying something like this prior to taking the plunge for a head gasket repair?

  1489. Justin,

    Thanks for all your useful information on this issue; my ’98 OB Legacy with a 2.5L engine just blew its head gasket at 206k. All your info was right on: sudden inconsistent overheating, bubbling sludgy coolant, soot in the exhaust, etc. Your previous advice to others was very helpful to understanding the situation, and it sounds like I made out pretty well. I’ve replaced the catalytic converters and the timing belt, but pretty much everything else (clutch, trans, water pump, fuel pump, etc.) went the distance.

    I may repair it and drive on, but given its age, I’m also considering replacing it with a late (2005 to 2008) or new Outback. So one question: do you have confidence that the newer Subarus have more reliable head gaskets? Thanks again!

  1490. I have a 2004 Legacy Wagon. At 52,000 miles the left head gasket was found to be leaking. The Subaru dealer fixed it under warranty. Now at 79,000 miles I find that the right head gasket is leaking and it also needs a new right catalytic converter which is still under warranty. Argh!

  1491. Hey Doug,

    Wow, you are the first 05 I have heard of, we service a couple of the 05 and newer every week and I have not seen one that has had anything more than just some minor fluid sweating. I have seen one or two 04 failures, but it is still the older part number head gasket so it stood to reason it would be subject to failure.

    It’s hard to tell you how to proceed from here. I don’t want to alarm you or make light of your concerns as I understand that it can be frustrating when you shell out money for something and the experience is something different from what you had anticipated.

    Here is one thought, The Auto dealers are going through a rough spell right now and are extra hungry as a result.

    While I am not suggesting any wrong doing it is possible that the service department was willing to do the repairs and bill Subaru for a minor leak that otherwise in a different economy would have gone undone.

    I only say this from experience at a dealership and the understandings of the inner workings. Or the other shop could have dismissed the severity of the leak altogether.

    Here is where I think I can help you the most. While its hard to say if it will happen again, and I am not trying to suggest that you haven’t maintained the car, I firmly believe that there are a number of factors that cause the head gaskets to fail and that trying to educate our customers about the H4 found in the Subaru and the unique maintenance aspects of it that have been lost by Subaru trying to show lower maintenance costs when compared to cars in the same class.

    I truly realize the unpleasant idea of the potential of facing a major repair. But would hate for you to get out of a safe and reliable vehicle which is really what a Subaru is.

    I have the added benefit of telling you that I really don’t think that switching brands will help that much. Regardless of positive press suggesting otherwise, newer cars cost more to maintain and repair than ever and the thought of owning anything newer than 07 isn’t all that appealing to most Auto techs out there. It has more to do with trying to clean up the internal combustion engine to near 0 levels when the internal engine doesn’t achieve 100% combustion and never will.

    You will pay either more for another car, more interest on money borrowed, and could end up with all the same problems anyways.

    Give it a couple of weeks and see how you feel, most of our customers feel ok as time passes and don’t regret keeping there Subaru, especially as ski season approaches.

    Someone has to try and tell you the truth and the truth is that cars never make financial sense ever at all and blue book value is only a mechanism meant to set a sales price.

    Cars are a necessary part of most of our lives and offer a different “total value” than what it’s worth to sell it. If you approach this, like what is the total value of keeping this car until it reaches 300k (it will make it) and not always having a car payment, full coverage insurance etc. I promise you that will spend less money maintaining this car over the next 10 years than you would have spent on car loans, insurance etc.

    In the next few years we will be looking at cars that will achieve better fuel economy and be gentler on the environment. That would be a good opportunity to replace the Suby, maybe with a Diesel Forester.

    But spending money to replace the Subaru with a different version of the same transportation isn’t all that good of an idea in my opinion.

    Now having said all that and in a couple of weeks you just don’t like the car any more by all means go buy yourself something you like I am sure you deserve it

    Justin

  1492. Hi Justin,

    I have an ’05 Subaru Outback (2.5 basic model) that just had both head
    gaskets replaced. Mileage is 45,323 and I bought the car from the
    dealer with about 7k miles on it in ’06. After
    reading up about Subaru head gasket problems, I haven’t seen a lot of
    press about the ’05’s having any issues. Is my experience just a
    fluke or is it a more wide-spread problem?

    Never having had this happened to me before with previous vehicles,
    I’m a bit concerned about the longevity of my car. The dealership had
    to send the heads out to get milled due to warpage. I believe the
    leak to be only external and leaking oil, not coolant. I only found
    out about the leak because I was having my oil replaced for free by a
    nearby shop pushing a “new neighbor” promotion. The head mechanic
    showed me the leaks and said they appeared to be external only and
    that I should have the head gaskets replaced when the timing belt was
    due to be replaced at 90-105k.

    Since I believed the power train was still under warranty, I took it
    immediately to the dealership to have them examine the issue. They
    obviously confirmed the leak because they did all of the repairs and
    SOA paid for it in full (except for new wiper blades I had done as
    well.) The only indication I had of any problem prior to being shown
    the leak was a smokey smell that I noticed only once or twice in the
    previous week when getting out of my car after driving it for about
    ten miles in the morning on my way to school.

    I guess my questions are these: should I assume that the leak was
    relatively recent based upon no other indications of poor
    performance? should I be concerned that the shop that showed me the
    leak issue didn’t think it was an immediate problem and that I could
    wait 45k before repairing it? how long can I expect this fix to last
    that Subaru performed? Is it true that you should replace an
    engine as opposed to fixing the head gaskets as I have read elsewhere
    on the net? Since I still owe money on this car, I’m wondering if I
    should just unload it now and move on to a new model or different car
    brand altogether? I do love my Subaru and it’s all-wheel performance
    and safety, but I’m not too eager to have to shell out 2k of my own
    money if this happens again within the next 45k and the warranty is no
    longer valid.

    Thanks for any feedback you can provide me

  1493. Mary,

    Your 2003 Outback has a 5 year 60k powertrain warranty that will cover the repairs. The warranty starts on the day you bought it and ends 5 years to the day you bought it as well.

    This assumes that the 30k service was done and that the oil has been changed on a regular basis.

    Justin

  1494. I have a 2003 Outback with 51,200 miles on it that has an external coolant leak & needs a new head gasket. This car has been maintained since day one by Subaru mechanics. I will do everything I can to get Subaru to pay for the entire fix, its ridiculous to have this big a problem after 51,000 miles. Very disappointed in Subaru.

  1495. Hey Chris,

    Thanks for the feedback on our site.

    As far as buying a “new to you used Subaru” I generally suggest buying the newest model with the fewest miles.

    But if there are certain things that you like with a particular year Subaru than that is a big consideration as well.

    Don’t worry to much about the miles if it has been maintained as the Subaru will go to 300k.

    But do plan on a head gasket repair at some point. Its just not as big of a deal as people make it out to be and a couple of months after it is done every single one of our customers is happy they did it instead of buying a new car.

    Its like buying a house and knowing in a few years it will need a roof.

    While a car is a depreciating asset, it offerers a different type of value when repaired. Its a whole value, the value of repairing what you have (provided you like the car) versus a pile of money spent on a new one plus interest or interest lost on money you take out of the bank to buy said car..

    Buy a vehicle you like, plan on keeping it ten years or longer and the Whole value will be there.

    As far as safety, reliability and utility, the Subaru will fill those needs. With the added benefit of All Wheel Drive.

    Justin

  1496. Hey Justin,

    Thank you for providing the site. It’s been a great resource.

    I have heard some great things about Subarus & would like to buy a used one soon. The ’98 – ’00 Outbacks are in my price range, but I’m hesitant to commit to one b/c of the head gasket problems. I will have any car I’m considering thoroughly inspected by a trusted independent mechanic nearby (unfortunately I’m nowhere near Seattle).

    I wanted to know if it would be possible for him to tell whether a HG repair would be needed down the road (and how he could do so), or if I should just assume it will be & factor that into the price (maybe $1500)? Specifically, I’m looking at a ’98 OB ltd w/ 45K mi. Are there any years/models that I won’t have to worry about the HG with?

    Also, what should be more important when buying a used Subaru: lower mileage, or a newer car? For example, in general, would I be better off with an older car w/ fewer miles (ie: a ’98 w/ 45k) or a newer car w/ more miles (a ’00-’01 w/ 65k). I’d value reliability & saving $ over newer amenities, etc.

    Sorry to write so much, but a new (used) car is a big commitment, and I want to make sure I’m not purchasing an expensive headache.

    Thank you in advance for any info you can provide.

    Sincerely,
    Chris

  1497. Hey Justin,

    Thank you for providing the site. It’s been a great resource.

    I have heard some great things about Subarus & would like to buy a used one soon. The ’98 – ’00 Outbacks are in my price range, but I’m hesitant to commit to one b/c of the head gasket problems. I will have any car I’m considering thoroughly inspected by a trusted independent mechanic nearby (unfortunately I’m nowhere near Seattle).

    I wanted to know if it would be possible for him to tell whether a HG repair would be needed down the road (and how he could do so), or if I should just assume it will be & factor that into the price (maybe $1500)? Specifically, I’m looking at a ’98 OB ltd w/ 45K mi & the 2.5l engine. Are there any years/models that I won’t have to worry about the HG with?

    Also, what should be more important when buying a used Subaru: lower mileage, or a newer car? For example, in general, would I be better off with an older car w/ fewer miles (ie: a ’98 w/ 45k) or a newer car w/ more miles (a ’00-’01 w/ 65k). I’d value reliability & saving $ over newer amenities, etc.

    Sorry to write so much, but a new (used) car is a big commitment, and I want to make a good decision.

    Thank you in advance for any info you can provide.

    Sincerely,
    Chris

  1498. Hey Ian,

    Thanks for the feedback on our site.

    The engine is basically the same from 2000 to 2004 and from 2005 to 2008.

    The big difference is the variable valve train components in the 06 and newer models.

    I would probably steer towards the 05 to 08 platform, the 2.5l is basically the same with some revisions but I feel that overall the 05 and newer seem to be pretty solid at this point.

    We saw the 2000 models with gasket leaks by 2004 so to not really see any issues with the 05 models makes me feel pretty good about the mechanical aspects being improved.

    Justin

  1499. Hi, I’m researching 2004-2008 Subaru Outbacks. I’m aware the hp differs in each year and there is a turbo. Power is not as important to me as being mechinally sound. Have you heard of any problems with any engine in this range of years? Or are they too new to tell yet? Thanks a lot for your awesome site, Ian.

  1500. Hey Leah,

    We haven’t seen a 2004 With leaking head gaskets.

    The 2004 Model Has the superseded part number for the head gaskets installed at the factory as far as we understand.

    Just make sure which ever year you buy that you maintain the car based on your driving habits as the schedule in the book is a guideline and the two different service breakdowns “normal” and “severe” can be confusing.

    Justin

  1501. Hey Ron,

    In regards to the coolant conditioner, it was only for vehicles that fell into a range of affected VIN numbers. You can call me at the shop Monday with your VIN number and I will tell you if it falls into the group affected by the coolant conditioner campaign. If it does I would ask for a reimbursement of the first repair from SOA if I was you.

  1502. Hey Ron,

    The 1600.00 is on the high side unless there are other things being done as well, such as the timing belt and water pump etc.

    As far as the every five year thing, the original repair was most likely done at the dealer, was one side only and done in the car which will not last. The reason you are getting a higher price now is they are most likely going to do it right and pull the engine out of the car and make the repairs. Which is the only way to make the repairs in my opinion as the other way will not last.

    Also if you drive the Subaru around town mostly and don’t change the oil and coolant a lot any repair may be short lived. Another words if the vehicle isn’t maintained after the repairs based on how you use the Subaru then its possible you wont gain as much value out of the money spent on your repairs as someone who doesn’t allow the fluids to be contaminated.

    Justin

  1503. Hey Greg,

    There is an updated set of pistons for the “slap” but in my opinion if it is just piston slap I would live with it.

    We generally don’t think you should split the short block case and do anything unless you do everything.

    When we split the lower end we will replace the bearings, pistons and rings as at that point its just parts and relatively the same labor.

    The piston slap poses no longevity issues to the engine at all and is usually not our recommendation to try and address it.

    Justin

  1504. Hey Rowan,

    I actually do not agree that the whole engine is a lemon due to the head gaskets.

    First off it doesn’t happen to all of them and how the car is maintained after the sale has a lot to do with how long the gaskets last.

    All mechanical devices need some maintenance and repairs over time and Cars are the only type of internal combustion vehicles where the maintenance aspects are optional.

    Look up on the internet “Toyota V6′ head gasket issues, Toyota had a huge issue withe leaking head gaskets on the 3.0l V6 followed by issues with the 3.4l V6.

    The European cars are famous for oil leaking from the head gaskets.

    My point is that every car out there will have some sort of an issue in it’s life, it is not reasonable to expect a mechanical device to work free of failure of any or all of it’s components when we have tried to regulate the emissions of that device down to levels that are not obtainable with out said control devices.

    Another words we have taken an extremely dirty device and tried to clean it up with technology. Higher combustion chamber temperatures along with uneven temperatures on our modern engines allows for greater expansion of the cylinder head and gaskets increasing the failure rate, combine this with drivers who stretch out there oil and coolant change intervals out to far, allowing the fluids to become corrosive and attack or eat away at the gasket and here we are.

    I know that my customers who heed our advice to maintain there Subaru based on how they drive the car don’t spend as much in repairs.

    I don’t feel it is reasonable to condemn the Subaru 2.5l as a lemon as it actually doesn’t fit the description of a lemon as laid out by the industry and it is an industry issue not just a Subaru one.

    Justin

  1505. Hi, thanks for the great info. I really want to stay away from major problems (blown head gaskets). I’m willing to spend a little extra for a newer used model, how are the 2004 and newer models as far as HG problems?

  1506. I have a 2000 subaru outback wagon. I had a head gasket failure in 2003 at 97,000kms and it was replaced for $570.00 and change. One side only. Now at 198,000 a second failure and this time they say both are gone. The cost is quoted at $1600.00. This is a hugh jump in cost. Is it unreasonable to expect a head gasket to last longer than five years. Is this cost over the wall or is this standard for this job in todays market? I really love this car but if I have to fork out $1600 every five years on top of all the other maintenance and service costs, it may not be worth keeping it.
    Also, I have heard a lot recently about a coolant additive that Subaru is recommending but I have not been notified by either Subaru or my local dealer. What’s the point of suggesting a resolution if you don’t tell everyone about it.

  1507. I bought a 99 Legacy GT Limited. It takes ~15 minutes for the piston slap to subside. The engine has not had the head gaskets done, consumes no oil, and runs well. If the #2 & 4 pistons were replaced as part of the head gasket service would it improve the slap, or is this an unnecessary additional cost?

  1508. Hey Justin,

    from reading this thread and other sources i think it’s fair to say that the subaru 2.5L engine is a lemon.

    my question is this- is the ej20 SOHC found in the gen 3 legacy more reliable?

    cheers,

    Rowan

  1509. Thanks, Justin for your response. The smoke was coming from the driver’s side of the vehicle but now I can see coolant leaking from the passenger’s side.

    Unfortunately, I found out that Subaru of Canada does not seem to have the same policy of extending their warranty for the head gaskets beyond the standard five years.

  1510. Hey Eddie,

    The noise cold sounds like piston slap, and it poses no detrimental effect on the engine if in fact that is what the noise is. Subaru decreased the skirt area pf the piston to decrease drag and improve efficiency and the result of this is a hollow knocking type noise that will usually subside once the engine is warm.

    As far as what is causing the smell/ leak I cant really comment on what it is without viewing it but I would question why the leak wasn’t found during the service. As that just does not add up at all. Given the mileage I would call S.O.A.(Subaru Of America) and request participation in the costs of repairs

    When looking at the engine was the smoke from your left or the drivers side of the the vehicle?

    Justin

  1511. I took my 2003 Outback Ltd so the Subaru dealership couple of weeks ago for the 72,000 km service. At that time I told the service advisor that the pistons were getting noisy when the engine is cold. A week later, I noticed a smell like burning paper on my way home from work. I popped the hood when I got home and saw thin smoke coming from the left side of the engine. I brought it in to the dealership again and they told me that I have to replace the head gaskets and perhaps also the pistons. However, I did not notice any coolant leak and is wondering whether the problem is really a leaking had gasket.

  1512. Hey Jessica,

    Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.

    I don’t recommend the low mileage Japanese exchange engines as they will be subject to the same head gasket failure you have already experienced as the revised head gaskets didn’t come out until after the 1st generation 2.5l was already out of production.

    You are much better off just repairing what you have and knowing that as long as it is repaired well it will truly last another 150k with low costs.

    The price to buy a low mileage exchange engine and put it in will vary buy hundreds of dollars so I can’t really advise you on costs in your area.

    Justin

    Independent Subaru Expert

  1513. We have a 1998 Legacy GT w/ approx 150K mi that overheated today for the first time. There is thick black muck in the overflow tank even though the oil was just changed 3 days ago. We cooled it down for a couple of hours, added more coolant and it seems to be holding a normal temp, but we have not driven it more than 10-15 minutes in city traffic– we live 35 minutes down a highway from where the car is right now. Since we can also hear valve noise when at hwy speed, we are thinking of just limping it along until the engine hard fails and then getting a Japanese replacement engine vs. paying for HG when the valves are bad. Anyone know what to expect for out the door/installed price on a 30k mile Japanese engine replacement?

    Thanks-
    Jessica
    jmorton822@yahoo.com

  1514. Hey Matt,

    Any car you buy should be inspected first.

    So far the 2004 models seem to be much better than the 2000 to 2002.

    The head gasket repair on a second generation 2.5l from 2000 to 2004 will run about $1300.

    I would buy that Subaru knowing that a $1300.00 dollar repair may be in it’s future.

    All cars have issues and you could buy a Honda or Toyota and put just as much money into it.

    Justin

  1515. I’m looking to get a Subaru Legacy, however have been very cautious after reading about so many head gasket issues. What years are to be avoided and which are ok?(from 1995-present) I was interested in the 5-speed 2004 35th Anniversary.
    thanks so much, this site is very helpful!

  1516. Nick,

    Most new vehicles have a similar head bolt torque procedure. The process is designed to establish an initial crush to the head gasket and then tighten the cylinder heads up to a “pre crushed” head gasket.

    Allowing for a better clamping process to help eliminate some of the failures related to excess cylinder head and gasket expansion.

    Your Subaru uses torque to yield head bolts and typically they are all right, but on an occasion we do have to replace a few.

    When applying torque to the head bolt you will be able to feel one that has stretched to far to be of any use.

    Justin

  1517. I am replacing the head gaskets on my 1999 subaru legacy outback. Do I need to replace the head bolts when I replace the head gasket? Also why is the tightening of the headbolts so complex. I have replaced heads before and I just had to torque it in the proper order, and torque it again. I have never had to torque twice, turn back twice, and then torque twice again, and turn 80 degrees twice. Is there a reason it is more complex with the h-4?

  1518. Hello Ann,

    So the conditioner was a reddish color and as it was added to the cooling system it would only try and fill the voids in the gasket area surrounding the coolant jackets.

    As far as the Subaru head gasket campaign it only pertained to the head gaskets leaking coolant.

    I do truly understand where you are coming from, but I don’t have an real good news other than if it is repaired with the engine out of the car by someone familiar with Subaru, a real Subaru expert and not the dealer it will last a long time and it is cheaper than payments on a new or new used car.

    I know that this doesn’t make the situation any less of a drag. The repair won’t be covered under warranty for an oil leak unless there was documentation of an oil leak prior to the warranty expiring.

    The clear fluid was maybe water from the ac?

    Oil will darken pretty quickly and is never really clear to start with.

    Sometimes the oil leaking out of the heads will look like a grey substance thicker than oil as it is the head gasket material mixing with the oil as it washes away off of the steel portion of the head gasket.

    I suppose someone who doesn’t see it all the time may mistake it for silicone.
    Hope that helps some.

    Justin

  1519. I have a 2000 Subaru outback wagon (83k) that was just diagnosed with a external oil leak on the left side head gasket. Back in April, 2008 (car was still under warranty) my local repair shop told me that I had a head gasket leak while replacing cv seals. I looked on the internet and founds lots of info including info on the extended warranty for external coolant leaks. I called SOA and got a case number, then took the car to a subaru dealer. The pressured tested the HG & said not leaking & added conditioner. They did not indicate that they added conditioner on my bill. So I asked them to put it in writing. During the summer, I had a drop of clear-like oily lubricant leaking on my driveway almost daily. I would also smell when the car is warmed up and idling, a stinky burnt oil smell. I took it back to my local service shop (3x), he said it was like a silicone product leaking. Next, I took it back to the Subaru dealer and they said it now is the head gaskets, but were leaking oil not coolant. He stated that the oil was clear due to it being changed recently (1000 miles. Here’s my question – is the conditioner an oily clear silicone lubricant? Doesn’t oil turn dark right away. Couldn’t the conditioner stop the coolant leaking, but not the oil leaking? And isn’t the HG a defective design so what’s the difference if it’s oil or coolant (semantics). I think is the HG repair should be honored under the warranty.

    PS. Your site is very helpful. Thank you!!!!

  1520. What a great resource this site is. Thank you for all of your effort into this. I blew the upper radiator hose about a month ago, and I haven’t been able to get the coolant levels right since. What is the proper procedure to fill the coolant?

  1521. OK guys, bought a 98 forrester w/ 255,000 that was suppose to have been “rebuilt” @ 200k, Coolant is going somewhere I suppose but a quick inspection under it from the oil change guy says no leaks, and I dont see blue smoke and there is no white film on the oil dip stick, but it has over heated a couple of times, I kept checking the resevoir which appears fine but would be frothy and bubbling up to the top in mid day heat, the same oil guy checked the actual radiator fill and it was empty, hence I was wrong to assume that the resevoir was the place to be looking, he said it should be fine as I worry I bought a lemon, but with everything said, I’ve put 1200 miles on it since purchase, short trips, and I think the actual problem is that the cooling fans are either frozen or its a fuse thing, fuse is fine and replaced anyways, but how about those two relays, if I change those, would it suggest that they’d work again, and therefore not have any overheating issues?? I would like to drive back home to colorado from Chitown next week. Suggestions?? Cheers

  1522. Thank you for the detailed response. From your description it sounds like we were suckered into a new radiator. We were told that it was the left over residue in the coolant from our (previously) blown head gasket that caused our radiator hose(s) to deteriorate and perforate. No mention of a clogged radiator. Thanks again, I will be sure to suggest your shop to our Seattle area friends & family.

    KD

  1523. Hey Gary,
    The recall in regards to head gaskets was related to a coolant leak mostly from the left side cylinder head.

    You might try calling, but at 119k it may be a hard sell.

    Be careful about adding too much coolant conditioner as it will clog the cooling system.

  1524. Hey Kd,

    I don’t understand your entire question, are you saying the gunk was clogging the radiator or that there is oil in the cooling system thus the radiator as well?

    The gunk is most likely the coolant conditioner that would have been put in under warranty. We have seen a few clogged radiators and found where the coolant conditioner has solidified in the radiator.

    This can be caused by a number of reasons. The most common thing we have found is if too much of the Subaru coolant conditioner is put in it will clog up the works.

    The dealer ship stating they always replace the radiator just flat out drives me a little nuts.

    Under warranty Subaru does not pay for a Radiator at all ever. You would have had to pay for any hoses, belts, radiator etc done above and beyond what Subaru of America would have been willing to pay for under warranty.

    If we are talking about an oil residue in the cooling system it would have worked itself into the coolant overflow bottle by now if it was residue from a previously repaired internal head gasket leak.

    The procedure with radiators is to check to see if they are clogged AFTER the head gaskets have been replaced. This is done with an infrared type thermometer checking for temperature variances as a good flowing radiator should have relatively even temperature throughout.

    This should also be done periodically as part of a good yearly inspection to PREVENT a situation like you have had.

    KD, a lot of what you have said just doesn’t add up to me at all. The Subaru dealership that repaired the hose on the car had no reason to ask if the head gasket was done because all of that information is available to them through SOA the instant your name, license, or VIN # is plugged into the system. Which happens at the time the vehicle is written up by the service advisor for repairs.

    If gunk in the radiator causes the hose to blow, why no mention of replacing the thermostat that would be full of the same gunk? A 2001 Subaru legacy has two radiator hoses, two heater hoses, two bypass hoses and one water pump elbow hose. Were they all replaced?

    Subaru does not recommend coolant flushes of any kind. And I have no idea how an aluminum and plastic radiator was “cleaned”.

    It’s always a precarious situation when the head gaskets are done under warranty at n/c to a customer to try and ask for money to replace hoses, belts and maybe a water pump or radiator.

    Most customers don’t want to pay for anything that isn’t covered.

    We advise our customers that have head gaskets done under warranty to pay for a new timing belt, accessory belts, hoses and a water pump as it will greatly save money over the long run.

    It’s hard for me to comment on what could have happened or what should have happened. But the one thing that I can tell you is the lower radiator hose does not burst on these cars typically and it should have been caught during an inspection before any trip was taken in the Subaru.

    A hose ready to burst sticks out like a sore thumb.

  1525. I have a 2003 Forester 2.5X, have done all maintenance per schedule and have added the ‘coolant conditioner’ faithfully every time coolant is replaced.
    Now, at 119,000 miles, after smelling burning oil, was told I have the head gasket problem
    So obviously, it’s still a problem with 2003 and later model Foresters.
    Is it even worth me calling Subaru of America to try and get them to pay for part of the $1,400 repair cost?

  1526. Thanks for the site. You have the best info on overheating and the head gasket problem.

    But I need to know what is recommended for the radiator when a leaking head gasket is replaced. We had a leaking head gasket replaced on our `01 Legacy Wagon, under the warranty, by our hometown Subaru dealership in December 2007. The repair order says ‘coolant check’, nothing about flushing or cleaning.

    On Labor Day the lower radiator hose burst at a rest stop about 300 miles from home. The local Subaru dealership asked if we had a head gasket replaced recently because they couldn’t find a leak but found plenty of gunk in the radiator indicating a leak. They said that the gunk in the radiator is what caused our hose(s) to deteriorate & burst. The local dealership recommended we replace the radiator as well as the hoses. The local dealership mentioned they ALWAYS replace the radiator as part of a head gasket replacement.

    If it turns out that out the radiator was cleaned in 2007 and there isn’t a new leaking head gasket what could cause the gunk in the radiator?

    Thanks much.
    KD

  1527. Hey Ian,

    Really the only way to know is to perform a leakdown test and see where the leakage is going. Such as to coolant or past a valve. Having leakage is only part of the diagnoses the other part is knowing where the leakage is too.

  1528. I am looking at a 97 legacy outback with the EJ25 DOHC 2.5 engine as a car for my school age son to learn to drive in. The car is off the road at present with a diagnosis of having failed a leak down test on one cylinder. I jumped the car to get it started and in ran lumpy suggesting that one of the 4 cylinders was not firing correctly.
    Before I started the engine I noted that the coolant level was down and i filled this up. I was not able to run the car for long enough to determine if the coolant level dropped again. The check engine light was flashing whilst the car was running. Is this likely to be a head gasket problem or something more serious? I had hoped that i could use the HG repair as a way to introduce my son to the pleasures of car maintenance!

  1529. Hi,
    First a very interesting explanation and set of posts.

    A different question: I’m thinking of buying a new legacy ( European Diesel for grins or extra trouble). Any feeling for the post 2004 model year Subaru gasket reliability – have they resolved the earlier issues or will it be just a matter of time?

    thanks,

  1530. Hey AJ,

    Thanks for the feed back on our site; it keeps me fired up to help people.

    As far as confirmation, if the coolant overflow bottle had an oily residue, or an exhaust, fuel or sulfur smell. That is the best thing a novice or professional alike can always look for as the easiest way to spot signs of internal head gasket failure on your Subaru.

    I don’t really recommend any sealants as they tend to restrict the radiator and create more harm than good.

    The timing belt, water pump should be replaced, it is also a good idea to have the oil pump resealed and the rear separator plate or “inspection cover replaced”

    The good news is that the repairs if done properly by a good Technician familiar with Subaru should last a long time and keep costs over the next five years fairly low.

    Hope that helps.

  1531. Justin,

    Thanks for such an informative site. There are many websites talking about the overheating problem but none as clear and concise as yours.

    After reading through responses I’m coming to the conclusion that I have a leaking head gasket. It seems to occur after I’ve been driving for a while and come to an idle. Once I start moving at 20 mph or faster it goes back down. I looked in the overflow container and saw brown sludge. I took it in to the mechanic and had the coolant flushed and the thermometer replaced about three weeks ago. I guess that didn’t help. I have three questions.

    1.Is there any easy way a novice like me can get some more confirmation that it is the head gasket? $1500 is a lot and I’d like to be surer that this is the problem. Other then the two indicators above I don’t see anything else out of the ordinary.
    2.Can you suggest any other repairs that should be done at the same time since I’m assuming the engine will have to be pulled out? I think you mentioned replacing the water pump and timing belt.
    3.I live in the DC area and it’ll soon start getting colder. I’d like to get through to next summer if possible. I drive about 500 miles a month, mostly 5-10 mile trips. Is there anything I could do such as putting in a sealant which will hold off the inevitable for another year?

    Thanks in advance and great site.

    A

  1532. Hey Helena,

    Most likely the repair wasn’t done well, or it wasn’t diagnosed properly.

    I suspect the radiator is restricted. This should be very simple for a good Auto Technician to find.

    I am sure its very fixable, cracked heads or engine blocks are not that common at all.

    Maybe source out a good Independent Subaru Expert like All Wheel Drive Auto in your area and let them take a look at it.

    I hope this helps.

    Justin

  1533. Hey Deb,

    Sorry it took so long to get to your Question. I took the Family to Disney land and promised I wouldn’t do any work at all unless it was an emergency.

    Any ways the price to replace the head gaskets and catalyst is a little high, but I have no idea what the going labor rate is where you are.

    The Subaru should have come with a 5 year 60k power train warranty that covers the head gasket leak so that should be done at no cost to you at all. The Catalyst is covered by Federal emissions warranty for 8 years or 80k.

    So most if not all of this work should be under warranty.

    I hope that helps and you can find the warranty information in your owners manual as well.

    Justin.

  1534. Hey Justin, Thanks for this great website. I have a Subaru Forester 2003 (75,000km) and noticed that the engine heated up especially when I drove up a hill on the highway. I first had the radiator checked and the thermostat renewed but the problem persisted. Last week the mechanic replaced the head gaskets and I was hoping that after spending around $ 2000 the problem would have been solved. However, when I drove the car a couple of days ago the engine started heating up again. I took the car back to the mechanic and he is having a look at it again. He seemed a little lost and did not really know why the car was still playing up. Would you have any idea? Do you think the engine is wrecked? I fixed the car as sson as I noticed the problem.
    Thank you, Helena

  1535. Justin:

    I have a 2004 Subaru Outback Wagon with 59K. Check Engine light came on so took it into my shop and found I need a new head gasket and a catalytic converter on driver’s side(due to the oil leak). I have all of my paperwork, stating previous oil changes, state of NH inspections/emissions tests, etc. My shop does not do major work because of proprietary and has told me to go to the local Subaru dealership. I purchased this car from the dealer, second hand with around 18k at one year old. Should this repair be covered or due to the age will I have to go to SOA as mentioned in previous questions. If not, does around $3000. sound accurate for repairs? Thanks for your help.

  1536. Hey Jeff,

    It is much less common, but yes the 2000 2.2l found in your Subaru Impreza Outback sport can develop head gasket issues as well.

    Look for any or all of the signs listed in my article.

  1537. justin
    have a 2000 ob sport awd 2.2 just started having overheating problems at highway speeds,not at lower speeds. no external leaks,fans running fine,upper and lower rad. hoses hot. head gaskets??????
    great site thanks for any and all info

    jeff

  1538. Ben,

    I don’t really suggest putting the conditioner in after the repairs are made or after the warranty I over from Subaru.
    We have been dealing with an increasingly number of clogged radiators and we have been able to correlate every one of them to multiple installs of the conditioner.

    Subaru specified you needed to add the conditioner any time the cooling system was serviced to keep the warranty intact and the ones that have had the conditioner in for a while or more than once seem to be developing problems.

    Justin

  1539. Justin:

    Thank you so much for you answers.

    Should the conditioner be added after the new gaskets are installed and there after when the cooling system is serviced?

    Ben

  1540. Hey Ben,

    The gurgling is either air trapped in the cooling system or cylinder pressure entering the cooling system as a result of the blown head gaskets.

    The 1999 Outback used the first generation 2.5l, and wasn’t subject to the coolant conditioner.

    A call to SOA probably won’t do to much good at this point.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but once it’s repaired and a couple of weeks go buy you wont look back.

    Justin

  1541. Justin:

    I have two Questions looking at your very helpful web sites.

    1. Warranty Extension: You mentioned to Mark that “The extended Warranty coverage only applies to the head gaskets leaking coolant and then only applies to affected models within a specific VIN# range, followed up with you had to have the coolant conditioner installed by a Subaru Dealer as part of the campaign.” I am the second owner of a 1999 OB automatic with 75K miles and I have checked all the previous owner’s record,(she kept them all and did not find a recall to install the conditioner. Perhaps not in the Vin # range?) Now,the 1999 OB has blown headgasket. Since it is over 8 years and appears to have no coolant conditioner added, Would calling SOA help in this case?

    2. Is the “Burbling noises in dashboard” a sign that the cooling system was not purged correctly? What is the correct procedure? (to tell my mechanic)

    Thank You for your web site!

  1542. I have a 2001 Subaru Outback with 96K miles and the 2.5 SOHC engine. Have not had any problems until lately when the colant temp. gauge began to creep up to over 3/4. The A/C was turned off and the temp. seem to stabilize. I drained the coolant and changed the thermostat. It seemed okay for about 70 miles, then began to heat up. Flushed the cooling system and added new coolant and a high dollar sealant. It got hotter faster. Removed the thermostat and it stayed at 1/2 gauge for about an hour, then went up fast with the A/C on. Turning off A/C did not help. No external leakage is evident. Is it time to drop the engine and change the head gaskets? Any tests to do before pulling the heads? Runs fine otherwise.
    Thanks!

  1543. Hi Justin

    Yes ur right I did not mention misfire in my first enquiry. As it was only occuring intermittently, at between 1800 and 2300rpm in top gear and only when easing the throttle open from a coast or overun, I assumed an injector issue and was running an injector cleaner thru the fuel system.

    There were no lights, bells or buzzers on the dash. I did not even know about the alerts you mentioned above. I thank you for your insight into the systems in place in my Subaru.

    My intention was not to mislead so apologies for any inference on my behalf. I did not link the overheating to the intermittent misfire at all. It was the mechanic who did. His reasoning seemed plausable up until reading your comments above. Well at the least I now have replaced the 75,000km old leads and the 175,000 km old coil. No labor was charged for his follow up work, and half the cost of the above equipment was bourne by the mechanic. Whether his reasoning is right or only partly so, he believed it to be at least half right. So I wasnt totally had 🙂

    FYI the mechanic in question is the nearest Subaru and European car repairer for about 250km from where I reside. He has a busy little business and is highly regarded amongst other automotive industry professionals.

    Also for the information of your readers, the leaking head gasket in my case was not internal, but oil literally dripping from the back rear edge of the head to block join.

    The more I have researched into this over the past 48 hrs and also in light of your comments above, I believe the symptoms I first described on overheating were more likely attributeable to air locks not fully bled out after the major work was carried out, rather than any ignition or pre ignition issues.

    For the little inconvenience of getting the car to and from the mechanic, and half the cost of a new coil and 4 leads, my car has had extensive additional testing and has passed each one. So I am happy that after 175,000km the Outback is holding up extremely well. Oh and he cleaned it for me as well. Thanks again, Scott

  1544. Scott,

    This is not aimed at you but,

    I am confused. If the Subaru had a bad spark plug, plug wire or coil problem it would have been running very poorly and NOT overheating, unless driven with a misfire to the point that the catalyst overheated or the engine was damaged.

    I am not saying that you have been had. But!!!

    You never mentioned any symptoms that would indicate that the car was running poorly such as a shake, poor performance or most importantly a flashing check engine light and I wouldn’t want any of my readers to think that a faulty coil or spark plug wire alone could cause the car to overheat without any other very significant symptoms because it just isn’t possible. Your Subaru has a misfire monitor as part of the engine control module that would have reported any misfire as a result of a bad secondary ignition component such as a plug wire, plug or coil in the form of a check engine light and a misfire code.

    I suspected that the air was not properly purged from the cooling system, as this is very common if the proper procedure is not followed and when the air pocket reaches the thermostat the thermostat will not open as it needs hot coolant not hot air to force it open.

    Lastly replacing the head gaskets without a good inspection of the rest of the vehicle will almost always come back to haunt the Technician and customer alike. This is why I always insist that a complete thorough inspection of the whole car must be performed prior to any repairs being attempted or the repair will be incomplete.

    You had Mentioned Subaru of Australia so I guess I assumed that it was at an Authorized Subaru service department.

    After your second post, I sure hope that wasn’t the case.

  1545. Thanks for the reply Justin.

    After a series of compression checks, fluid level checks, gas checks all wre still stumped.

    Then the mechanic again did a full drain of the cooling system and then another gravity refill. The result eliminated the burbling in the dash. The theory was that the air caught in the dash on the engine side of the thermostat was cavitating in the new water pump so low flow on engine side which caused the very short drive time to get to operating temp. So when the thermostat opened and at cruising speeds temp was ok.

    So the problem still remained why car was running hot at slow driving speeds or idling. The mechanic ended up testing the spak plug leads and coil. One lead almost dead, the other 3 with high resistance, coil pumping out too much current and pretty much cactus. Aparently this causes all sorts of ignition issues. One side effect is excessive heat. New coil and 4 leads, car running at normal temp again.

    Sometimes I just wish for a simple Chevy, Windsor or Hemi motor with a few rubber pipes, a carby, simple cooling system and lots of room in the engine bay to fix the problems myself. Modern cars are great when they are running, but…..

    I hope this can help someone else in the future.

  1546. Hey Mark,

    The extended Warranty coverage only applies to the head gaskets leaking coolant and then only applies to affected models within a specific VIN# range, followed up with you had to have the coolant conditioner installed by a Subaru Dealer as part of the campaign.

    As far as why it leaked oil, there are a few reasons this can happen. Gravity and the horizontal engine design are a big factor when combined with any fuel in the oil. Any excess fuel will slowly eat away at the head gaskets and cause them to fail as fuel is a solvent and very corrosive.

    Hear is the best way I can explain it.

    We don’t achieve 100% combustion in the internal combustion engine, meaning that not all of the fuel used in the combustion process is burned. A lot of fuel scrapes past the rings and into the crankcase where it mixes with the engine oil. The oil collects a lot of excess fuel over time that needs to separate from the oil back into a vapor and be re- introduced into the intake manifold through the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system and the crankcase vents(at each valve cover). But in order to achieve this, the oil must come up to temperature. This just doesn’t happen in stop and go driving at all. There is a big difference in coolant temperature and whether or not the oil gets up to the specific temperature required for the fuel to start to separate from the oil and be released back into the intake system. A good long extended freeway trip is the best defense against head gasket leaks. Also helps with internal engine longevity and preventing catalyst failure.

    As we continue to add new emissions systems to the same old internal combustion engine to try and clean up the tail pipe gasses, the basic engine it self can suffer. If one of the emission systems fails, and creates uneven combustion temperatures, this can affect the longevity of many other basic components of the engine, including the head gaskets.

    This is the same for all engines, and I know of a lot of other makes and models with just as frequent gasket failure as the Subaru. There is something about high intelligence level of the average Subaru owner that draws them to seek out information on the web and post experiences good or bad.

    Having the Subaru repaired by someone who is willing to pull the engine out and do the repairs right is a good way to go and in a few months you will never look back.

    Hope this helps

    Justin

  1547. Hi Justin:

    Great site. I am trying to clarify the warranty extension on 2001 Outback Head Gaskets. My dealer says head gaskets are starting to leak, when I inquired further about is it a coolant (since under warranty extension), they said no, it was oil. Is an oil leak covered under this extension. I change oil regularly (short trip driver), and was wondering how an oil leak developed. Thanks!!

  1548. Hey Scott,

    That really sucks. Through the years I have seen a small handful of Subaru’s with a cylinder liner issue which can cause what you are talking about but so can an air pocket caused by something else or a flow issue. The car is very fixable. An infrared thermometer looking for temperature variances in the cooling system will be the best place to start.

    Also has the accuracy of the coolant temperature sensor been checked?

  1549. Sorry forgot to add to my mssage 87 above that the radiator was flow tested and pased twice. Thermostat replaced twice with OE. Thanks, Scott

  1550. Hi All

    I have an Outback My01, so seems a 2nd Gen 2,5 engine. Have had both head gaskets, water pump, thermostat and full 200000km service with parts just done. Car still overheats. Gets to operating temp after about 1.5kms of driving. I watch the needle move quickly.

    Only slightly overheating on a longer run, but more so at lower speeds in town like 50 to 60 km/hr. Top radiator hose hot, bottom cool to mild. No water loss at all. Burbling noises in dashboard under moderate to heavy acceleration. My mechanic and Subaru Australia are stumped.

    Any thoughts please.
    Thanks in advance, Scott.

  1551. Hello Justin,

    I am looking to buy a new (or slightly used) Impreza or Outback Sport. I have not seen as much historic information on head gasket issues with the Impreza. I know the Outback Sport is considered a type of ‘Impreza’- but it seems to have more documented head gasket issues (at least historically). So- which subaru model seems to experience the head gasket issue the least frequently?

    I was told the Impreza- do you agree?

    And when mechanics suggest the Impreza- does that include the Outback Sport (Impreza)?
    -THANKS-

  1552. Hey John,

    We could break it down by the VIN # to see if it is under the campaign, but I suspect no on a 2002 if you send me the vin # I will look into it for you. If the Gaskets are not leaking right now I would only suggest replacing the coolant with Genuine Subaru coolant only for now and keep an eye on it.

    Justin

  1553. Justin, I’m about to buy a 2002 Outback with 18,000 miles(I know the owner). I don’t know if this car is affected by the head gasket recall or if it ever had conditioner added to the coolant. Would it be recommended to add coolant conditioner as soon as I get this car? Would it be recommended to change the coolant if it hasn’t ever been done and add conditioner?
    I hope you can guide me as to what I should do. Thanks. JC.

  1554. Hey CB,

    First of all I am sorry you are having trouble and hind sight is always 20/20.

    But did you have the car inspected prior to buying it? Or at least have someone look at and service it after the fact? A neglected car will let you down every time.

    The check engine light on your Subaru is related the vehicle emissions systems more than it is to the engine itself. It does not come on to tell you to pull the car over in most cases.

    And is a federal emissions thing, not a Subaru one.

    I know that the owner’s manual is not very exciting reading by any stretch of the imagination but it will help you understand your Subaru better.

    The only way it could need an engine is if it was driven for a long time while overheating in which the temperature gauge would have been pegged to the red.

    As far as price, head gaskets range from $1200.00 to $1300.00 here, but if an engine is needed I would look for a used one to save money, reseal that engine and drive the car for the next 5 to 6 years with only minor maintenance needed to the engine it self.

    Hope that helps some

  1555. What can one expect to pay to have a head gasket replaced?
    What if the check engine light never comes on, and the engine gets blown? How much then? We bought a used 2000 Subaru Forester and 2 weeks later the car started over heating and we are being told the engine needs to be replaced. Why doesn’t the check engine light come on when the head gasket starts to leak? How is one to tell when to pull the car off the road and call a tow truck if the check engine light doesn’t come on? The car only has 70,000 miles on it. I’m pissed.

  1556. Hey Roland,

    I don’t know any one to send you to, but I would try car talk’s website under mechanic files for reviewed shops that specialize in Subaru.

    Justin

  1557. Hi Justin, I’ve been reading this post for a while, it looks like my 1999 outback is having the head gasket problem. I reside in Illinois, are there any Independent Subaru Specialist in the Illinois that you can recomend? I don’t think I will be able to bring the car to WA.

    Roland

  1558. Thanks Justin! I think this summer I will be doing this job myself, as I love the body style and the car. It has served me well, and I feel safe in it.

    If there were a good kit for this chore, I’d be all over it like a wet blanket! I think there are enough shade-tree wrenches out there who could take this on with a well thought-out kit of parts. Even more helpful would be a trivial write-up on this procedure, something that detailed the procedure at high-level. Even better still would be a web-based article with photos and a much more granular procedure.

    You sir are in the industry to earn a living, and I believe you deserve every penny you make and more if you can put together a kit. The term here in Texas is “good egg”. 😉 I can likely speak for many when I say that I’d like you to stay in business and help you to keep helping people out, and buying parts or labor from you is the only way we can help. 🙂 Feel free to produce that kit, I’ll buy it.

    Thanks a ton! I will keep you posted when I take this on.

    Taylor

  1559. Hey Taylor,

    First of all I am very confident you will find the lost love for your Subie. The RS is one of my personal favorites and definitely would encourage you to repair it.

    The external oil and or coolant leak from the left side head gasket is very common on your Subaru Impreza RS, and I am sure that is where the leak is from. But $3200.00 is a little steep even if it does include the cat.

    As far as doing it your self, it is possible but you will need to invest in some tools that you may not have. Also is the possibility of missing a step or problem from lack of experience (it can happen to anyone). I would guess the time to be a day to remove the engine and take it apart. Some down time to send the heads to a machine shop to be checked and surfaced. I must strongly suggest this step for a do it your self project unless you are very comfortable with a straight edge and a feeler gauge. Then I would suggest it will take the better part of a day to put the engine back together and another partial day to put the engine back in, burp the cooling system and give it a good once over. The head bolt torque can be difficult as well and is probably the most important part of the job. So the answer is yes you can do the repair provided you are prepared.

    I have been contemplating selling parts. If someone put together a kit of quality components needed to do the repair right would that be of interest to you? I am not looking to sell you anything, only looking for some feedback.

    Thanks for the positive input on our site, and if I can help you further let me know.

    Justin

  1560. Hi Justin, thanks a TON for your well-developed stream of information! It’s helped me a LOT in dealing with the following issue…

    My 2001 RS Impreza has recently developed a rather serious external oil leak on the passenger side, just above the exhaust. It is burning oil pretty bad, has been for almost a year now although it does seem to slowly be getting worse. The car has been maintained well all its life, filters and tires getting regular attention. I change my oil regularly as well, and have never noticed the temp get above the same exact spot the engine always warms up to. My local Subaru dealer diagnosed the head gaskets (both) leaking and offered to replace the gaskets and my cat converter (throwing code 420) for $3200, which wasn’t and still isn’t possible. I am hesitant to commit the down-time of the vehicle to doing the head gasket swap myself, but I likely have the skills and a majority of the tools needed including the hoist and engine stand. This is my daily car, and I would like to keep her for another few years, as she only has 127k on her. Is this something you would advise someone who can rebuild a 1993 Mustang to take on? Is it likely that this external oil leak certainly is a head gasket issue, and I’m unlikely to encounter too many other sources? Will I ever find that lost love for my Subaru again? 😉

    Any advice for someone might be about to try this themselves would be very helpful, mostly instilling some confidence that this truly is the problem. I seem to see the leak, it’s at a seam on the block for sure.

    Thanks!

    Taylor

  1561. Hey Faith,

    I missed your followup question. I would try to doc about $1500.00 of the price or so.

    Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

    Justin

  1562. Hi Justin —

    I appreciate the advice! The Outbacks of that date range are about the right ones for my budget anyway. If someone is selling an Outback that hasn’t had the head gaskets done, how much would you think that should affect the price?

    Thanks —
    Faith

  1563. Thanks Justin,

    Happy to hear that it’s a common noise with the Subarus. I know that the ford engines make the noise cold sometimes if the pistons are installed backwards for increased compression with no detrimental effects. Thanks for your advise. It’s nice to have some expert Subaru advice. I really enjoy the blog!

    Paul

  1564. Hey Faith,

    The Older Subaru Loyales were great; there is no doubt about that but they were also much simpler in design. This is really due to the amount of emissions control devices that are on the later models and is kind of the price we pay for trying to clean up the air. My old 88 took me every where. But they were oil leaking (which is no good for the environment) and if the cooling system was neglected they would blow head gaskets and crack cylinder heads. The Subaru Legacy, Outback, Forrester and Impreza are great cars as are the Tribeca, Baja etc. Certain models seem to have more issues than others.

    I’m not sure what year or era Subaru you are looking at but what I can tell you is they are great cars with some common issues but if you want to know what I think is the best way to go, I would suggest buying a 1997 to 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon as they are the current era Loyale in my opinion. Buy the Outback based on the knowledge that if the Head gaskets haven’t been done yet they will need to be, and let that affect how much you are willing to pay for it. The 1997 to 1999 have mechanical valve lash adjusters and rev up smoother than the 1996. I have a 1998 and my wife a 1996 we both have a pile of miles on them and they both have had the head gaskets replaced as well and have been great cars before and since.

    Here is a good scenario, you buy an Outback knowing it should have the updated head gaskets put in, you replace the water pump, timing belt and a few other things at the same time, you then have a car that will last a long time but even better yet if you have all that work done at a good shop a portion of “your new used car” will be under warranty. We give our customers a 1 year 15k warranty on the head gasket repairs we make. I would expect a good shop in your area to do the same.

    I hope that helps and happy hunting!

  1565. Hey Paul,

    Most likely it is piston slap, very common. It really has no detrimental effect on the engine and as long as you keep up on the maintenance you should be fine. Subaru shortened the “skirt” area of the piston (this is the portion of the piston below the connecting rod pin) to help reduce drag and friction. Piston slap will typically be hollow in sound and the noise should get better as the engine reaches operating temperature and the cylinder and piston/rings have all expanded and are happy. This is pretty much what you have described. My own Subaru Outback wagon has “the slap” and it is at just under 200k and counting.

    Hope that helps

  1566. Hey there … I have a less usual question to ask you. I am currently the proud and happy owner of an old-school 1991 Loyale with about 170,000 miles on it. Although the car runs great, it is showing its age and I have been considering upgrading to a newer (used) Subaru. However, having done some research and asking around, I’ve gotten the impression that these newer Subarus may look cooler but they have some significant issues going on, such as this head gasket problem. My old car needed a timing belt once and has a few mild oil leaks, but it generally runs like a champ. Would you recommend the newer Subarus over the older one? And why? And if you do think an upgrade is a good idea, which model years are going to be better in terms of having gotten the bugs worked out of the design?

    Thanks a lot!

  1567. Hi,

    I bought a 1997 Outback Sport with the 2.2/5sp. It has 138K on it and runs great. It has a little noise in the AM that, to me, sounds like a rod knock. But since it’s only when it’s cold, I think it may be piston slap. I drive it easy most of the time, but especially when it’s cold. It’s really quiet, but noticable to me. I’ve taken to driving with the stereo off when the car is cold just to listen to it. If it’s piston slap, will the engine live a long time anyway if taken care of properly? I bought it to have the all wheel drive with a 5sp as my Jeep Auto Trans went out and the only thing I don’t work on is Auto Transmissions(internal). I love the car. I want it to last awhile. What do you think?

    Paul

  1568. Justin,
    Thanks for the input. I have started the process that you mention with the dealer and SOA and I will post the outcome if or when it resolves. As for the $3200, it is high, but that is because the mechanic is suggesting that we do a number of other things while the engine is open…like replacing the water pump, front seals, spark plugs & wires and a litany of other items. Needless to say, I have asked for and received a revised quote to just fix the problem and it is closer to $1500 which seems much more reasonable to me.

    Thanks again and I’ll be in touch.
    JR

  1569. Hello JR,

    Thanks for the feed back.

    As long as you can provide service records, regardless of who serviced it I would encourage you to call SOA. In 2002 when we were really starting to see the 2000 to 2001 models come in past 60k with head gasket leaks that Subaru wouldn’t cover under warranty I encouraged customers to call and a lot of them were able to recoup $700.00 to $1100.00 back when Subaru increased the warranty to 100k on the 2000 to 2001 models a little later. Establishing some communication and providing proof of repairs was how a lot of customer were able to recoup some money. While I can’t say for sure that Subaru will increase the warranty on the 2002 to 2004 models to 100k like the 2000 to 2001 It wouldn’t surprise me. If there was enough pressure, which comes from vehicle owners like your self. Not to question the shop that has your car now but $3200.00 seems kind of high but, as I don’t have the car in front of me it may only seem that way.

    Justin

  1570. Justin,
    First off, as you have heard a number of times…you give great in-put and explanations, thank you!

    And of course this leads to my question.

    Have you seen any late model Subaru’s with the leaking head gasket issue? Reason I ask, is that I just took my 04 Outback Sedan in for its 90k inspection and was informed that it has a leak. The shop tells me they called Subaru to see if it might be covered by warranty but it is not. They are also recommending a raft of other work while they have the engine open to the tune of nearly $3200.

    I guess the reason I am asking is because I would like to know if talking to SOA would be worth while or is this just one of those things you except and pay?

    Thanks in advance,
    JR

  1571. Hey Jonathan,

    I am sorry but I don’t know of any good Subaru shops in that area. A lot of my customers “Google” Seattle Subaru Service and find us that way, maybe you can try the same or look at Car talks website as well. They have a section where you can put in a zip code and make of vehicle and look at rated shops in that area.

    Hope that helps, and good luck to you

    Justin

  1572. Hey Jonathon,

    The Coolant conditioner was introduced by Subaru to try and help out with some of the external head gasket leaks that were happening with the 2nd generation 2.5l. The price for the reseal is more than we would charge but it’s hard to say if it’s the right price for the area you live in. Overhead can change drastically from state to state and city to city. And overhead is really what affects the price of repairs. If you like the car I would encourage you to fix it but I don’t generally suggest the Dealer for repairs as it’s just not what they are good at.

  1573. Hey Chris,

    Pretty much if the head gaskets haven’t been done; I would encourage you to plan on having them done at some point if you buy the car. But here is the good news, if you take that 1999 Subaru Outback and have a good Subaru shop do the repair with the updated head gaskets and a few other things along the way such as the timing belt and water pump you will have a great safe and reliable vehicle that should run for the next 5 years or so relatively trouble free. That is our customers experience and my own as well as both my wife and I drive Outback’s with the first generation 2.5l.

    So to answer your Question the failure rate is 100% given time.

  1574. i have a 2002 impreza 2.5RS i took it to the dealer and they recommended i reseal the entire engine for an estimated cost of 2600. does this sound right to you? also, i read on the internet about Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner. is this to fix the coolant leak or is this in addition to the reseal? do you think it is worth it to have the repairs done with 88k on the car? thanks for your help.

  1575. A family member is selling their ’99 Legacy Outback with 83,000 mi.

    I could get the vehicle for far below blue book, but I’m worried about the head gasket failing.

    Do you have a rough idea about the % of these phase 1 2.5L engines that have head gasket failure?

    Thank you very much!

    Chris

  1576. Hey Kathy,

    As long as the repair is done well and complete, and you keep up on the maintenance after the repairs you should have no trouble achieving your mileage goal and then some.

    The 1998 2.2l is a great engine. The one suggestion I would have is make sure that they do a good job of inspecting the exhaust valve guides while the cylinder heads are off, and maybe have them replace the valve stem seals at the same time as a precaution.

    Hope that helps.

  1577. Hello – I have a 1998 Subaru Legacy AWD wagon with 2.2l engine. My mechanic says that my head gaskets have a slight drip that that they should be replaced. The car has about 130M. If I do this, do you think the car can run beyond 200M? I’ve maintained everything well throughout the life of the car and recently changed the timing belt.
    Thanks for your response.

  1578. Hey Brian,

    Thanks for the Feed back on our site.

    The 1996 Subaru Outback with the Manual transmission came with the 2.2l engine. While the Auto transmission model came with the 2.5 and starting in 1997 all of the Legacy Outback’s came with the 2.5l. Maybe look for one that has been repaired or one that hasn’t and that is reflected in the price, they are still great cars.

  1579. Justin,

    Great site. I am currently looking for a good, used car for a “reasonable” (read cheap) price and am looking at some Subaru’s. Most of what is available is these ’97-’99 Outbacks. In researching this, I have obviously come across this HG issue and having that problem on another car, it is something I don’t want to risk.

    So, I’m looking for more info about the different types of Subaru’s in the late 90’s. Apparently, the 2.2L engines do not have nearly the same problems? The OB as well can come with a 3.0L engine, I believe? Were OB also made with 2.2L engines? Is this high HG failure rate inclusive to the 2.5L? Any info would be apprciated.

    Thanks

  1580. Justin,
    Your site is excellent. Thanks for helping me understand my 2003 Subaru Legacy SE-L. Love the car, expect hundreds of thousands of miles out of it! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!

  1581. Hey Steve,

    Yes the 1996 2.5l uses a different type of head gasket and the failure rate is much, much lower. My wife’s 1996 Outback still has the O.E. gaskets at 145,000. In 1996 Subaru used a composite type gasket that was very similar to the head gasket they used in the 2.2l from 1989 to 1998 (which did not fail very often) if at all.

    What I think Subaru was trying to do was increase power and economy. The 1996 2.5l also has hydraulic lash adjusters where in 1997 Subaru switched to Mechanical lash adjusters instead.

    The replacement gasket for the 1996 is the same as the 1997 to 1999. I have always felt that installing the older gasket would be great, but no deal as they were never available as a replacement gasket.

  1582. Justin,

    I bought my 96 Outback 2.5 DOHC new and it now has 116K miles. Frequent oil (every 3K miles) and coolant changes (every 2-3 years) by myself. Never had a head gasket issue but I am concerned. I was wondering if you’ve seen fewer internal HG leaks in 1996 2.5 models than 1997-1999 2.5 models? My reasons for asking are that (1) you mentioned a different head gasket design was used for 1997-99 than 96, and (2) on another site (called Skip’s Subaru Repair Page), a logbook listed much fewer 96 HG issues than 97-99. Appreciate your experience and reply.

    Steve

  1583. Hey Tim,

    Thanks for the feedback on our site. The temperature sending unit for the gauge is located in the coolant cross over pipe below the intake manifold, on the passenger side of the engine. Follow the pipe that the upper radiator hose is connected to until you find two sensors. The single wire sensor is for the gauge and the double wire sensor is for the computer.

    What you are describing is totally normal though as far as the needle staying in the lower ¼ of the gauge.

    Hope that helps

  1584. Post should read that is it between 60 and 70 degrees here , and car acts more like it is 60 below freezing. Heat in the car does blow hot.

  1585. Love the site! I’m a first time Subaru owner of a 96 Legacy Wagon. The car seems to run fine but the coolant temp needle only goes to the first 1/4 of the range and it takes forever when first started to get there. It’s 60-670 degrees here in California by the way. I replaced the tstat today but it did not help. Where is the sensor for the gauge on this vehicle? Thanks

  1586. Hey Sean,

    Thanks for the input. I don’t know any Subaru repair shops in your area. A lot of my customers find me on google and car talk so you might want to start there.

    Justin

  1587. Justin
    Thanks again for an excellent and knowledgeable resource for Subaru owners. I had the head gaskets replaced with confidence on Bu (the Blue Subaru) 🙂 due in large part to your articles.

    Are you aware of or can your suggest ways to find expert independent Subaru shops in the Salt Lake City area?

    Best –
    Sean

  1588. Hey Jim,

    Thanks for the feedback on our website.

    The 03 on a scale of 1 to 10 would come in at an 8 or 9 at this point. They are proven to be reliable and very very safe if ever in an accident. I would still recommend that you have the vehicle inspected prior to buying it, but I can tell you the 2003 is a better vehicle than the 2000 to 2001 as far as the probability of needing to replace the head gaskets goes. I hope that helps and good luck in your vehicle search.

    Justin

  1589. Justin,

    First, thank you for such an informative article and such helpful responses to the questions posed by others.

    We are in the market for a used car, but due to our current economic standing we need a car to last at least 3 yrs with a relatively high degree of confidence that it won’t cost us a small fortune after the purchase. Although we like the style and space of the Outback, we are understandably a bit apprehensive about the given the head gasket problems – we’ve already passed on an otherwise good looking ’99 thanks in large part to your article.

    We are now looking at an ’03 Special Edition with a 2.5L H4 SFI SOHC 16V . If I understand you correctly, the ’03s still have some head gasket problems, but not as much. Given that I am looking for car with a high degree of reliability, how would you rate the ’03 model (say on a scale of 1-10)?

    Thank you for any help you can offer.

    Jim

  1590. Hey Chip,

    There is a protective coating on the Catalytic converter that may need some time to burn off. Also is the possibility that the PCV hose has been bumped loose while disconnecting the front O2 sensor to replace the catalyst. Other than that is the possibility of the exhaust not being sealed up well (gasket leak) sometimes the dealer or other shops will re-use the exhaust flange gaskets and they don’t always seal up well the second time. As far as the no start usually a “click” for a couple of times prior to the starter engaging is worn starter contacts but since you have mentioned the starter is new I would look into the inhibitor switch or transmission range switch as being out of adjustment (it is not uncommon for this to need to be adjusted as the shift linkage ages). Also if the ignition switch is worn (which is a moving part) you can have this type of symptom even though it is rare. Lastly the battery state of charge and ability to handle a load should be tested as well.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

    Your Independent Subaru Specialist.

  1591. Hi! I’ve got a 2000 Outback Wagon (automatic) and have a few issues with it. One is the gassy smell in the garage (and sometimes in the car) that appeared soon after the catalytic converter was replaced. Any ideas? the repair shop showed no leaks and couldn’t smell what I smelled. Recently car has had difficulty starting. Just a click, then next attempt or two and it will start strongly. Had the starter replaced, but no change. Could it be an aging parking brake sensor? Car has 152K miles on it…

  1592. I had the timing belt replaced in the summer and when they did the HG’s they didn’t replace it. They said they would just put it back on the motor since it was so new and not in need to replacing. I Went to flat irons Subaru which is a dealer and they also told me the same thing about the bottom end…(they took it into the shop and looked at it) I change the oil every 3000 and the car is very well taken care of… I dropped the car back and the shop to have the motor replaced. I hope i didnt make a mistake.

  1593. Hey Kyle,

    Was the timing belt tensioner replaced? A lot of times the tensioner can fail and cause the timing belt to “slap” which sometimes can sound like a knock. The 2.5 L found in your 1999 Outback is not prone for lower end bearing failure unless it is starved for oil. The amount of piston slap noise can sometimes increase after head gasket repairs, as the explosion in the cylinder can be more powerfull after leaking head gaskets are sealed. The bigger the explosion in the cylinder(especially when cold) the better the chance for the condition that causes piston slap to be present. But having said all that piston slap really shouldn’t result in needing a lower end redone. I would ask the shop who performed the repairs on your Subaru to re-check the tensioner and I would go from there. If you do in fact need a lower end I would only suggest the Subaru shortblock.

    I hope that helps

  1594. Hey Dana,

    If you like your Subaru then I would say you should at least have the vehicle checked for signs of exhaust gasses in the cooling system, I would also encourage a full vehicle inspection so you have the whole picture in front of you as far as current and future needs. I usually try to encourage having the repair done prior to the car overheating as it does save some money. If your Forester overheats, it may warp the cylinder heads and the added cost of pressure testing and resurfacing the heads can add up to $300.00. This can usually be avoided if the problem is caught early enough.

    Thank you for the feed back on our website and I hope I have helped

    Justin

  1595. Hi I have a 1999 Outback and recently had the Head Gaskets done. After getting the car back from the shop I drove to Winter Park (a mountain resort in CO) ran fine, but when driving home i started to notice a knocking noise from the engine area. I drove the car back home and later the next day back to the shop. The guy there told me that sometimes it the car gets heated it can cause the bottom end to go out (short block. The car has 167,700 miles and still runs fine but have noticed a drop in fuel millage, and the knocking noise between 2,000 and 3,000 rmps. When i took it back to the shop they put it on the lift and checked all the heat shields and found nothing. I have never heard this noise before and did some searching on youtube and found some EJ25’s with similar noise’s. Some say piston slap and some say rod bearings. I payed $1900.00 to have the HG’s done and the shop offered to give me back the labor in credit. So they want to charge me 2980.00 for a shop rebuilt or 3500.00 for a Subaru Factory motor… what should i do?
    Thanks much
    Kyle

  1596. Thanks for all this great info….I have a 1998 Forester with 190k Its in great shape, my mom bought it new and has had the oil changed every 3k. About a month ago I started smelling this burning oil smell after driving for a few minutes, the dealer told me it was the valve cover gasket leaking and replaced it, Well it solved the burning smell but I am a bit worried about the Phase 1 head gasket failure. Would you recommend replaces the head gaskets before 200k? I also recently started using a synthetic blend for high milage cars, Next week I am driving out to CA, (from MI) and trying to take as many precautions as I can. Thanks Again!

  1597. Hey David,

    I will try and answer all of your questions.

    Typically when the head gaskets fail in the first generation 2.5l as found in your Outback you will end up with transfer of exhaust/combustion into the cooling system and some coolant into the cylinders but not coolant in the oil, the later is kind of a deal breaker as far as repairing this engine goes. If it is really that bad to the point that the oil has become contaminated with coolant, I would be hesitant to make repairs to that engine until it was torn down and properly inspected by someone who is really familiar with the motor. With the extensive overheating you may have warped the heads or block and even cracked a cylinder liner (worst case).

    You are not alone and we have dealt with this issue many times. If your car was here we would first do a thorough inspection of the whole car and all of its needs to make sure the car is worth repairing first of all, next we would do our best to try and figure out how severe the engine problems are with out tear down (this comes with experience with Subaru’s). If we had assessed the engine as “most likely not worth fixing”, here is what I usually suggest.

    Finding a good used 2.5l, plan on doing a complete engine reseal with the updated head gaskets. I would also suggest replacing the timing belt, water pump and coolant hoses. This repair done correctly will yield a long life provided proper maintenance is done after the fact.

    The cost is really going to depend on the cost of the used engine. Repair prices can vary substantially state to state as a shop’s overhead can be quite different depending on where you live. Our shop rate is $85.00 an hour and most of the Dealerships are over $100.00 an hour.

    I would estimate a used engine to be $1,000.00 to $1200.00
    A complete reseal of the used engine $1800.00 to $2000.00
    Hoses, belts, fluids and misc. $200.00 to $300.00

    I would stay away from the low mileage Japanese exchange engines unless the shop is planning on resealing it, as the head gaskets (which started the whole problem) will still be the old design and subject to future failure. We usually have found that a low mileage exchange engine imported from Japan and “dropped in” will usually go one to two years prior to needing the head gaskets done.

    Your best bet is finding an Independent Subaru repair shop in your area. I would be hesitant taking to a general repair shop and would not take it to a Subaru Dealer service department for this kind of repair. Lastly the quality of the parts used, combined with how skilled the technician is repairing the vehicle, will ultimately determine how long the repairs will last. Just make sure you get real value for your money and that may come with a slightly higher price.

    Hope that helps

    Justin

    Your Independent Subaru Specialist.

  1598. I have a 1998 Subaru Outback LTD that was diagnosed by (2)repair shops in August 2007 as being in need of a head gasket repair, currently has 161,000miles (burns through coolant, heat in the car is sporadic, oil in pan looks like chocolate milk, blows white smoke out the exhaust, and has the occasional putrid-burning smell coming from the engine). I am bringing it in to be evaluated tomorrow by another shop to have an estimate written for me. With that said I have five questions: 1)how much damage have I done over the past (5) months driving it around unrepaired? It constantly overheats for long periods of time and yet I keep driving it. 2)Is the engine worth repairing? 3)Is there other work I should have my mechanic do while they are in there making this repair? 4)What questions should I ask about how they intend to make the repair to ensure it is lasting? 5)What is the typical cost of this repair, to include whether existing heads can be machined or if new heads are required?
    Thanks so much for this valuable site, wish I had come across you months ago!!!

  1599. Thank You – was just make sure I thought I read somewhere that if you had the coolant additive added that head gaskets were covered for up to 8 years or 100,000 miles.

  1600. Ruth,

    Subaru only covers the repair one time under warranty, unless the repair fails while still under the factory warranty. And even then it is usually on the repairing Dealership. If the repair didn’t last very long than yes I would probably call and talk to Subaru of America, not the dealer but the phone number in your owner’s manual.

  1601. Hello,
    I had a collant leak also and both head gaskets were replaced under a recall. I just had them replaced again and it cost me $950- This should have been covered under warranty by subaru if I ‘m reading everything correctly- right
    Thank You,
    Ruth

  1602. Camille,

    Your Subaru Forester uses cylinder head bolts and not studs. They are called torque to yield type bolts and should be replaced if they have stretched beyond use.

    If your Subaru Forester has a leaking head gasket the repair procedure would be to replace the head gasket or gaskets along with the necessary parts to do the repair properly. There are a few service bulletins pertaining to cylinder head gasket issues on Subaru’s but none of them pertain to oversized head studs.

    I hope that helps. The repairs made properly will yield many more trouble free years of service from your Subaru.

  1603. Ron,

    Really the only choice is the O.E. gasket. Use a copper gasket spray on both sides of the gaskets and you will be fine. I have yet to see an aftermarket gasket I would use.

  1604. I have a 2003 Forester with 93,000 miles. Recently it started to leak coolant. The dealer noted that the headgasket showed coolant leaking on one side. The recommendation was to rebuild the engine

    My second opinion contact checked the notices and recommendations on the car. He found that oversize Cylander Head Studs were recommend. Do you know if there were any defect notices of this problem? I am thinking that my Headgasket leak is a result of the smaller Cylander Head Studs streatching. Have you heard of this problem?

  1605. Justin-
    I sincerely thank you for your response. The engine was consuming oil prior to tear down. Your advice is very good in getting a new short block from Subaru. I REALLY do not want to spend the time splitting the case and re assembling. Can you recommend a source of a quality head gasket so I do not go through this same problem again?

  1606. Hey Ron,

    It is very difficult to find a machine shop that is up to the task. We take the block apart here and deliver the bare case half’s to a local machine shop but it is not cheap, and in a lot of instances we will end up buying a new/reman. short block from Subaru. The problem is that it needs to be in the hands of a truly skilled machinist, and you really want to make sure that there isn’t a big overbore difference between one cylinder and the rest or it will vibrate. Also you will probably end up replacing all the rings and bearings and with the cost of machine shop labor there won’t be much difference in price from a short block from Subaru versus fixing what you have. If you are comfortable splitting the case half’s your self and putting them back together maybe you could ship them out? What I can also share with you is if the scratch doesn’t go all the way down the cylinder wall and it wasn’t consuming oil before or the cylinder leakage to the crankcase was ok you might let it fly. If it did consume oil or its worse than I am visualizing than machining the cylinder wall is probably the way to go. I will tell you that it is a lot of work and a lot to put back together when dealing with the case half’s. Be very careful with the wrist pins if you tackle it your self.

    Justin

  1607. I have a 1999 Forester with the 2.5L EJ25 SOHC. Your article describes the head gasket failure to a T. I have the engine apart right now. The vehicle has 115,000 miles on it and the engine is amazingly clean on the inside, like it had been rebuilt in the last few years (I am the second owner so I have no records to prove this). The local machine shop milled the heads and said there was no need to rebuild them as they were in great shape. My problem is that on the cylinder that seemed to be the most effected by the failing head gasket got a small piece of debris between the top ring and the cylinder wall leaving a visible but not vey deep scratch. It can barely be felt by a thumb nail. All of the other bores are so clean that you can still see the honing makes. My problem is finding a machine shop that will correct this short block. I e-mailed several of those large engine rebuild houses in the US asking to purchase a short block. But no one has responded. None of the local (zip code 95003 Santa Cruz, CA) machine shops will work on a Subaru short block. I would like to put this engine back together correctly as I agree that I will get many miles out of it. Any suggestions?

  1608. Hey Ako,

    I would call S.O.A.(Subaru of America) You can find their phone number in your owners manual. I hope you have service records, as long as you do I feel pretty confident that a phone call to Subaru will yield better results than the Dealer. When you call Subaru make sure you say the following. You have been told by the Service department at _______ dealership, that you have a head gasket leak that they have denied warranty coverage of the needed repairs. You bought the vehicle in good faith that Subaru would stand behind their product and that you had also been advised that the head gasket problems plaguing the older models had been resolved and that you shouldn’t expect any problems with your vehicle. Be nice, but be to the point, and be clear that you expect the repairs to be done under warranty. Don’t threaten or be rude. If you don’t have any service records, than you may have to accept some responsibility, and maybe you should ask for partial coverage of the repairs. Something is better than nothing.

    Hope this helps and good luck

  1609. Hi. I have an ’03 Legacy Outback with 55K. The dealer shop informed me of the headgasket problem. The headgaskets are leaking and it will cost around $1700. According to the dealer, my warranty expired a month ago. What is my options?

  1610. Hello Bob,

    Without checking/testing its really hard to say for sure. Start with an inspection of the engine for any external leaks. Pay close attention to the cross member for any signs of coolant residue. Next look in the overflow bottle for signs of an oily residue. As far as the hesitation, there are a couple of other possiblities such as plug wires, plugs and the coil. Is the check engine light on?

  1611. Dear Justin, I have an ’02 Outback with 82K. Last year, I started smelling anti-freeze inside the car, and ‘assumed’ it was a leaking heater core. Some stop-leak seemed to halt the odor. Now, I’m having bad hesitation upon acceleration. I have to ‘pump’ the accelerator pedal, and really ‘kick-it’ to get up to speed. Once there, everything is fine. Am I having head gasket problems like everyone else? Thanks, Bob

  1612. The Subaru Outback has a reverse flow type cooling system. Meaning the thermostat is at the bottom and the lower hose will not get warm until the thermostat opens. The lower radiator hose is the inlet hose to the radiator from the engine. The reason it runs cooler without the thermostat is the coolant is always flowing. The job of the thermostat is just like the thermostat in your house it is there to regulate/control temperature. In your Vehicle the thermostat does this by reducing coolant flow until the coolant gets to a specific temperature. The original thermostat in your Subaru had a small valve that would allow a small amount of coolant to flow through it, the thermostat will start to partially open prior to the preset temperature before finally opening all the way to allow full coolant flow. By removing the thermostat you have temporarily reduced the likelihood of over heating by never allowing the engine it self to get to normal operating temperature. This also results in a richer fuel mixture, which also lowers combustion chamber temperatures, which also lowers engine temperature, but at a cost.
    Maintaining a specific temperature is a key function in reducing green house gasses and increasing fuel economy. This can damage the engine as well over time.

    Taking the thermostat out wont last forever as the excess cylinder pressure and temperature from the failing head gaskets will eventually create more heat in the cooling system than the engine’s cooling system can deal with even with the thermostat out. The whole time the head gaskets are leaking internally, there is a chance that the cylinder heads and engine block can become pitted. The oily residue in the overflow bottle is a sign of failed head gaskets as well. Take a moment and smell the overflow bottle as well. Chances are it will smell like exhaust.

    I hope this helps answer some of your questions

      1. Hello Michael,

        It doesn’t have to develop a HG issue, but it can slowly overtime develop an external oil leak that can again slowly overtime turn into a external coolant leak or internal failure as well.

        I would suggest you start with having a Subaru Shop let you know where the car stands now and game plan from there.

        Hope that helps

        -Justin

  1613. well my problem sounds like a head gasket but it just doesnt make since. My 97 subaru outback keeps overheating.Ive changed the thermostat,water pump and the timing belt just because. The engine sometimes runs normal and other times runs hot. If I feel the inlet hose to the radiator its hot but the lower hose is cold,as if the radiator has no flow through it. Ive flushed the system twice and with the thermostat out of the loop the eng runs cold and there is flow through the system.Its acts, to me, like the thermostat is in backwards but the heating element/spring side is toward the engine. What gives? Head gasket issue makes some since but then why would the engine run cool without the thermostat? One other important tidbit…the coolant overflow does have oil residue in it.

  1614. Oh – And interestingly, I just popped my hood a moment ago and saw oil on my engine block for the first time ever. Does this scream head gaskets to you? It appears to be coming from a seam in the block just behind and to passenger side of the pulleys/tensioners for my belts.
    Thanks for any insights.

  1615. Thanks for a great description. Clear, scientific, and consistent with my dealer and a couple other smart techs that have helped sort through my overheating that only happens on the way to the ski resorts (I live in SLC). Can you speak a little bit toward the mountain issue – is it the air pressure change from 4800 to 8000+ feet or the demand on the engine that accounts for the penetration of exhaust gases to the coolant? I ask because I can usually drive around town and on highways for extended periods with no problem.
    Cheers!
    Sean

  1616. Doug,

    The very thing you are describing is just exactly what frustrates most technicians and vehicle owners a like. How can overheating from a blown head gasket be intermittent?

    Well here is why.

    When the head gasket starts to fail, combustion chamber pressure (usually around 180lbs) escapes into the cooling system past the head gasket, also bringing with it combustion chamber temperatures as well (anywhere from 500 degrees Fahrenheit and on) the cooling system is not capable of dealing with the excess temperature. This also usually happens when the engine is being pushed hard or has been driven for a while as the cylinder heads, gaskets and engine block have all expanded with heat and not all at the same rate. As the cylinder head expands away from the block a deteriorated gasket simply cannot hold back the constant cylinder pressure any longer allowing pressure and temperature into the cooling system thus causing the vehicle to over heat. Once the vehicle has cooled down and the cylinder heads and gaskets have contracted we start the cycle back up the next time we drive it to the point of expansion that the head gasket can no longer deal with. Next is that as cylinder pressure comes into the cooling system it creates tiny air pockets that decrease the efficiency of the coolant temperature sensor and the thermostat, as both need to have liquid around them at all times to function properly. This is one of the key reasons that the problem can go on for so long with out proper diagnoses. The vehicle has both a temperature sensor that the computer uses to know when to turn on the cooling fans and how much fuel to give the car based on engine temperature and it also has a temperature sending unit for the gauge in the car. If there is an air pocket trapped in the cooling system near the sensor or sending unit the readings will be inaccurate. So as the amount of air being introduced into the cooling system increases with cylinder head expansion the less effective the cooling system is at a time when the overall coolant temperature is rising. Not a great scenario.

    I hope this helps explain it.

  1617. Justin,
    I have a 1997 Legacy Outback. My overheating issue is sounding more and more like what your talking about. I replaced the thermastat first but to no avail. It has 168k on the clock and before this has had no problems. My main question is, why is it sometimes after it cools down it is fine and I have plenty of heat inside the car, but during another trip, I’m over heating again and have cool air blowing? If it was a blown gasket, wouldn’t I experience the problem everytime? Thanks in advance.. Doug

  1618. Justin,

    Thanks again for this website. The information you stated below is great to know and, if I decide to keep the car and a head gasket blows when the car’s out of warranty, I’ll take it to you instead of to the dealer.

    Regards,
    James

    *********************
    “But under warranty the only thing Subaru is going to pay for is the repair in the car. Here is why the repairs under warranty don’t seem to last as long. On a horizontally opposed engine you are constantly fighting gravity and fluids trying to drip out of the engine block also there isn’t as much room to clean and prep the engine block and a lot of technicians result to using a “whiz wheel” to clean the gasket surface rather than a block sander not to mention visibility isn’t all that good in the car as well.

    The right way to repair Subaru head gaskets is to remove the engine from the vehicle and put it on a stand. This ensures a good clean repair, the number one rule when trying to replace any gasket on any engine, is to make sure the surface is clean. The “repair it in the car method” leaves a lot to be desired.”

  1619. One of the things I comment on a lot is the repair technique used at the dealer. The typical repair is to replace the left side head gasket in the vehicle. It is impossible to obtain the same quality seal you would if you were to remove the engine from the vehicle and make the repair. But under warranty the only thing Subaru is going to pay for is the repair in the car. Here is why the repairs under warranty don’t seem to last as long. On a horizontally opposed engine you are constantly fighting gravity and fluids trying to drip out of the engine block also there isn’t as much room to clean and prep the engine block and a lot of technicians result to using a “whiz wheel” to clean the gasket surface rather than a block sander not to mention visibility isn’t all that good in the car as well.

    The right way to repair Subaru head gaskets is to remove the engine from the vehicle and put it on a stand. This ensures a good clean repair, the number one rule when trying to replace any gasket on any engine, is to make sure the surface is clean. The “repair it in the car method” leaves a lot to be desired.

    As far as what to do from here, are you being advised that you need an engine?

    The best advice I have, is to not have the repair done in the car. And not done by the dealer. What I think is lost, is that a vehicle repaired under warranty is going to be fixed as quick as possible, worse is that once a dealer technician is used to doing the repair a certain way that’s how it is going to be done regardless of who pays the bill.

  1620. 1999 Forester 2.5L SOHC Sept/2004 111,000mi recall for “coolant conditioner”. Dec/2004 117,000mi left head gasket failed – external leak. Replaced by Authorized Subaru Dealer. Dec/2005 145,000mi Head gasket failed. Alignment pin crushed when gasket was installed. Engine taken apart serviced and put back together. Dec/2007 172,000mi head gasket failed – internal. I’ve had both failures from the Phase II engine. Should I try a Thermagasket product? I don’t have $3,000 for a used engine in car with 172,000mi. Where do I go from here?

  1621. Hey Tim,

    What I would suspect is that the right side axle has a leak at the inner CV boot and the grease is leaking onto the exhaust causing the smell. CV joint grease has a very strong smell to it, even more so if it gets hot.

    If you are inclined, you can raise the hood and look down at the passenger side axle shaft and should be able to visibly see grease spraying onto the exhaust and firewall. If you don’t see any signs of a leaking CV boot than it may be a good idea to have us look at it.

    Thanks and have a great day

    Justin

  1622. I have a 1996 Outback. I bought it with 111,000 miles. I had another shop do the major service right after I bought it. They said the head gasket was fine at that time. Anyway, I notice it smells pretty bad when I’m at a stop light sometimes after running for awhile. It doesn’t smell like oil. The car doesn’t overheat but the smell is troublesome to me. Is this common or a sign of trouble to come with the head gasket?

  1623. James,

    The engine in the 2002 Outback sport is considered a second generation design. The multi layered gasket I referred to in my article is the gasket used in the first generation 2.5l typically found in the 1997 to 1999 Legacy Outback, The Forrester up until mid year 1998 and the RS and Legacy GT up until the second generation engine was used in those models as well up to 06 of 1999. These gaskets will usually fail internally and eventually cause overheating.

    Your Outback sport has the second generation engine which has been plagued with external leaks. The composition of the O.E and the replacement gasket is somewhat hard to explain on paper. It is a single layer steel gasket with a composite material on either side of it.

    Why I don’t think you should expect to have to replace the head gaskets every 70k, I also need you to understand that there is a significant difference in repair techniques that ultimately will determine how long the repair will last. As far as the Toyota with 250,000, two things to consider, Toyota had a lot of problems with there V6 head gaskets in the Late 80s to the mid 90s but the internet wasn’t as popular so the word didn’t get out as much. Toyota increased the warranty mileage and time limits just as Subaru has done. Also every few years there is a technology jump, usually as a result of our efforts or government regulations to get vehicles to run cleaner. It is my belief that in efforts to clean up tailpipe emissions in the internal combustion engine we are decreasing the life of certain aspects of the vehicle as a result in higher combustion chamber temperatures and increased emissions control devices. In being involved with a few different Technician groups such as IATN, I can share with you that a lot of newer cars seem to suffer from an increased amount of problems that it had seemed we had conquered previously in regards to some of the more basic components of the engine. Lastly the coolant in your Subaru should never be flushed especially at a franchised quick lube center, there are numerous bulletins’ that talk about the potential for a flush machine being contaminated with brass and copper which can create issues for the Subaru cooling system. I do truly understand the frustration of having to have a major repair done and questioning the quality of the vehicle. But I know of plenty of frustrated vehicle owners that don’t drive Subaru’s as well, if you do a Google search for “problems with Toyota” you may see that newer cars have more problems. Cars period, can be very frustrating and bottom line is if you own a car that has a problem that car will seem suspect. I would encourage you to get through the repair and I think that you will feel better after it is all over.

    Justin

  1624. Justin,
    I’m confused. I’ve a 2002 Subaru Outback Sport with 71,000 miles on it that’s now at Walker’s Renton Subaru with a failed left side cylinder head gasket. Subaru has extended the warranty to cover this, and will be doing the repair at Subaru’s expense (they’ll replace the left side cylinder head gasket only). You said here that, “Starting in 1997 and used through 1999 Subaru began to use a multi layer steel shim head gasket with a graphite type outer film. And this is where the problem has started.” Also, that, “In mid-year 1998 Subaru redesigned the 2.2l and 2.5l, most of the changes were in the cylinder heads and camshaft configurations. This design has had mostly problems with external head gasket leaks.”

    So, okay – then my 2002 OBS has the new cylinder gasket design, yes? And still it failed. How can a cylinder head and camshaft configuration change lead to early cylinder head gasket failure? Towards preventing this from happening again, you’ve just described what I’ve been doing all along: regular oil changes, coolant flushes, and Subaru service with OEM parts. Can I expect blown head gaskets every 70,000 miles? (This car replaced a Toyota with over 250,000 miles on it.)

  1625. I have a 1999 Legacy 30th edition with the 2.2L 8/98 engine. What brand or model number of head gasket is the best replacement for this unit. I have the heads off and can’t seem to locate anything other than the OEM gasket??

    Thanks,

  1626. Sometimes it can be better to make the repairs before all of the typical symptoms start to show up. It may save you money in the long run, especially if you don’t wait until the car starts to overheat. I do understand the frustration of having to spend money on repairs for a vehicle, but keep in mind that most cars will need some type of repair at some point in ownership. If overall you like the car, the safety and reliability of the Subaru, than it does make sense to make the repairs. You should expect to obtain many more years of life out of the vehicle.

    1. Hey Justin, not sure if is is a good way to get my question answered. I’m up in Alberta, Canada and have recently purchased a 2000 Forester with 135,000 km on it (85k miles)

      I can smell coolant and it leaks a bit of oil. I’m blaming head gaskets. Plan to do them myself just for the experience (hobby mechanic. . .never played with a Subi before). If I’m that deep I’m doing the timing belt and clutch as well.

      What gaskets do you use? OEM or another brand?

      Also looking for opinions on clutch kits and timing belt options. OEM good enough or are there better upgrades out there?

      Thanks for any help.

      1. Hi Kurt,

        Its the only way to get your Question answered from me so thanks for posting here.

        We use the Six star gasket for your application and if you look on our site under Head gasket kits you can source the kit you need form us.

        We also sell the Timing belt kit with OEM parts, there is an updated anti Judder Clutch kit as well, we buy this directly from Subaru and that’s where I would steer you as well, I dont know if I can save you money on the clutch kit when the shipping to Canada is factored in.

        If you wanted to fill out the parts price request form here https://awdautoparts.com/contact-us we can send you some prices and take things from there.

        Justin

  1627. I hava 1998 Subaru Outback with 135,000 and my mechanic recommends replacing the headgaskets even though there are no symptoms yet. Is that a ripoff? Or is it good preventive maintenance. I am very disappointed in my Subaru.

  1628. In my opinion, your Subaru is well worth having the repair done. But you may want to look into having an independent Subaru repair shop do the next set of head gaskets. I am very surprised to see that you haven’t received the kind of mileage out of the repairs we would expect. I would suspect the repairs done at the dealer were rushed and that’s the reason the gaskets haven’t lasted.

    1. Justin,

      I am highly considering (going in for a pre-purchase inspection from my mechanic) a 2003 Outback Legacy (automatic with 4 cyl 2.5L). It has 139K miles and just had the timing belt replaced. I am so concerned with the HG issue. Is there an excellent coolant conditioner that you would recommend as a pro-active deterrant (eg, Subaru Eng. Cooling Conditioner, Blue Devil, etc)???

      thank you as my intention is to keep the car well into 300-400k miles.

  1629. I have a 2000 subaru legacy 2.5l. I had the head gasket replaced at 100,000km and 160,000 by subaru, under warranty. The car was always maintained at recommended schedule intervals using genuine parts, plus I use synthetic oil. Now again I have the odour of anti-freeze at 200,000km, assuming the gasket is leaking again. I replaced the battery and alternator 2 years ago. Regarding your comments about short trips, I do drive about 5 min. to work and we get some cold weather in Ontario, Canada. I was hoping to keep the car 2 more years and get the 2010 model year, am not sure if it will last that long. Further, should I avoid buying a Subaru if the short drives will kill the gaskets every time. I really like the car otherwise and would want to buy another one if I can avoid having this problem. Should I get rid of the car or fix it again?

  1630. What you are describing is spark plug extension tube seals that are failing. This is pretty common to the Subaru 2.5l and I can see how the colder weather would contribute. I would suggest that when the seals are replaced a light film of a graphite or copper type grease be applied to the seal, this should help the new seals last longer than the original seals did.

  1631. We have a 2004 Subaru Baja with a 2.5L. I notices oil leaking into one of the spark plug sockets when I was changing plugs. A local independent mechanic charge me $48 then told me it was possibly a defective valve cover gasket, or head gasket, and/or oil filter seal. I was referred to the dealer for service. I live in interior Alaska where the extreme cold causes widespread failure of gaskets and seals. I’ve had no other problems with the vehicle and hope it will last after the repair.

  1632. Hello Brian,

    We have seen some problems with the 2003 Subaru 2.5l engine having some head gasket failure, but not at nearly the same scale of the 2000 to 2002 2nd generation 2.5l. It’s hard to say if the problem is fixed for the 2003 year or not. Most of the solution has been about maintenance and using the proper type of coolant and coolant conditioner.

    Justin Stobb
    All Wheel Drive Auto

    1. Hi…I have a 2003 Subaru Forester and 2002 legacy. You guys fixed the Forester, but I had the legacy repaired somewhere else. I won’t mention because I don’t want to lambaste another business. The legacy was done 3 months ago with the same issues as the Forester – leaky gaskets. You guys were much more reasonable, let’s say almost half, than the mistake I made with paying out the rear – $4700 for the legacy. Having said that, my legacy quote said remove engine and repair as part of it. I still believe that the engine was not removed from the legacy because my wife handled the whole transaction and the shop did the typical – “take advantage of women”. This is just my opinion.

      1. Is there any way visually to see if a shop actually removed an engine?
      2. Are bolts wiped at all before reinstall?
      3. Is there any identifiable outline that could show where the engine was separated?
      4. How would I go about some forensics?

      I feel like a dumb consumer and I want to make sure that I get what I paid for and not some half baked deal. Any help to educate me would be appreciated.

      1. Hi Kyle,

        We try our best to be reasonably priced for the service we offer. I just don’t feel that anyone else out there offers the same level of service. Many shops dont pull the engine to do the repair regardless of whats in print Our guys always do. As far as forensics its tough to teach you how to be an expert in a few paragraphs typed over the internet. We could identify what was done but we know what to look for.

        As far as bolts wiped and outlines its going to differ by shop and then again by the Technician who is making the repairs. Some will go the extra mile some will go as quick as possible.

        You can look at the lower motor mount nuts to see if they were disturbed as well as the bell housing nuts and bolts. But unless you know exactly what you are looking at it may be tough to know exactly what to look for.

        Sorry I cant offer more, its just difficult to try and teach you in a short period of time what its taken years to learn. All you can do is maybe compare the 2 cars you have?

        Justin

      2. i had a 2002 outback 2.5 that both head gaskets failed under 36’000 miles. i lost confidence in the car, turned it in on a 2005 outback, same engine. i just had both head gaskets changed at 68’000 miles, and my son’s 2006 legacy just had both of his done at 71’000 miles. subaru has a very serious promlem that needs to be addressed. just like the toyota problem. it’ s a shame because i really like the outback, just cannot afford to maintain one.needless to say, i bought my last subaru, and will discourage anyone from buying one.

        1. Bill,

          While I understand your Frustration I will also caution that the decision to get rid of a recently repaired car was based on emotion. Any car you buy will need repairs, if you are more comfortable with the $500.00 at a time type of repairs VS the one time larger sum. Spending say $2000.00 on a HG and timing belt repair is .03 cents a mile for the next 60,000 miles, buying another car is much more expensive but no one thinks about it on those lines, of the Subaru vehicles you mentioned had a HG problem that left you stranded nor would it in the future after the HG was repaired. Spend some time on some forums for other vehicles and you may realize the Grass is not greener over there.

          If you name the make and model I can tell you the list of things you can expect to do to it. The 2003 and newer develop mostly external oil leaks, its not a “blown head gasket” . A comparable Volvo may need a transmission to the tune of $4000.00 or an Audi may need even more. Those are the other 2 vehicles in the Class of your 2005 Outback in terms of crash ratings, AWD systems and agility.

          For the record the 2010 Outback and Legacy engine use a MLS gasket and semi closed deck block much like the Turbo engines and H6 use. The new Forester and Impreza use a DOHC chain driven engine. The gasket used in the 2003 to 2009 2.5l is officially no longer in Use by Subaru in production.

          There are many many 2010 Outbacks with high miles already that we have seen come through the shop and have not seen anything close to the problems that faced the 2000 to 2002 that were under the WWP-19 campaign.

          Justin

          1. Justin,

            I am frustrated and I’m not sure what to do about my 1997 Outback wagon with 177,000 miles. I live on the east coast outside of Philadelphia and have my Subaru regularly serviced at my local Subaru dealer for almost 8 years since I purchased the Outback used at 91,000 miles in 2004.

            I was aware after I purchased the Outback that this car had problems with head gaskets. I was hoping my Subaru would excape this problem, but that was not to be. In the fall of 2008, with
            with 132,000 miles on my Outback, I experienced my temperature guage rising in the red zone. I wasn’t sure what it was, but of course the Subaru dealer told me my head gaskets had failed after some testing. Thank goodness I didn’t damage the engine. I belive I paid over $1,500 to service and replace both head gaskets.

            This past Friday I noticed some unusal movement on the temperature guage. It moved up very quickly into the nornal range and was starting to climb a little higher at idle. I decided to take my
            Subaru into the dealer right away without an appointment. After waiting about a hour the service manager told me the news – I need head gaskets! I’m sure the service manager didn’t remember I had the head gaskets replaced only 45,000 miles ago in his shop. He looked up the computer record to confirm the repair. He said the head gasket repair is only garanteed for a year and Subaru would not do anything because the repair was done some 4 years ago. I said this was a major repair and his answer didn’t seem satisfactory to me. The service manager then asked a mechanic which head was bad. After that I was sent back to the waiting room.

            After about 20 minutes I was called back to the service desk. Another service guy, not the manager I spoke with earlier, handed me an estimated head gasket repair of $1,750 plus tax and told me it’s a 2 day repair. He told me they put a conditioner in the coolent to try to stabilize the gaskets (no charge) and sent me on my way.

            Of course, I’m not happy with the treatment I received by my Subaru dealer, and feel I should not be paying for new head gaskets after only 45,000 miles since the previous repair. I have been spending many thousands of dollars at that dealer on all regular maintenace and all repairs.

            I still really like my 1997 Outback wagon, but I’m not sure what I should do. I don’t really want to spend almost 2 thousand on this second head gasket repair, but I’m not sure what I should do.

            Recomendations?

          2. Hi David,

            I am sorry to hear about the trouble you have had, I would as I am sure you would have as well that you only dealt with the HG thing once, unfortunately that’s just not the case here and is also not going to be the case for every one repaired either.

            Subaru of America sold you the car and had profit, and to help make the sale they offered a 5 year 60k powertrain warranty.

            Industry standard for most mechanical repairs is 1 year 12k because its a “repair” and warrantied by the franchised dealer and not Subaru. The only way to up the warranty would be to increase the level of repair above industry standard and then you would price your self out of the market as a business. Thats the reality of the industry, the service department is not going to pay to work on your car, the gasket manufacture wont do anything post warranty expiration to help the service department. The 1997 Outback while known for internal HG failure most dont occur until well over 100k, and many dont ever have a second failure.

            I understand that 45k isn’t as long as you would like but it cost you 3 cents a mile. I am afraid I don’t have any thing else to offer to help numb the pain of the expense.

            The conditioner for an internal issue is a terrible idea by the way.

            If your worried about the expense, it will cost less to repair this than move on. If you have lost confidence in the vehicle and move on only time will tell many years from now when you look back at the experience you have with a replacement vehicle if that was the correct one.

            My advice, based on what you have provided me would be to try and remove the emotion form the process and make the best decision based on your finances and weather or not the car still suits your needs.

            I hope that helps

            Justin

          3. Hi, Justin! All of this information (in the post and comments) is incredibly helpful and also somewhat reassuring. A year ago I bought a 2002 Legacy Outback wagon, 89,000 miles, and this year when I had it inspected it had an oil leak. (It now has 93,000 miles.) I took it to my mechanic (it’s a family business, the guys I bought the car from, who all worked at the Subaru plant for years, then for a dealer, then opened their own shop. So they know Subies.) I brought it to them and it needs the driver-side head gasket replaced. They said that since it’s such a big job (2 days) to take the engine out, etc, that they recommend replacing both gaskets because the labor and parts to do that doesn’t add that much to the cost. They’re also going to change the oil, drain all the fluids and replace them, and, if needed, replace the timing belt, though they put a new one in before they sold me the car 15 months ago. They said that they will only have to do this if things don’t line up right when they get the new gaskets on (??). Total cost for this is $1200. Does this seem like a reasonable quote and reasonable way to proceed to you? They said that replacing the non-leaking (or not-yet-leaking,I guess) gasket was only $300 of that total of $1200, so it did seem like a good idea to me to just have them replace both now if they tend to fail. any thoughts you have would be very much appreciated. I am so in love with this car! And I want to take the best possible care of it so it will run happily for many years to come.

            Thanks!
            Lizzie in Buffalo, NY

          4. Justin,

            I wanted to thank you for your generous time you spent in your reply to me about my 1997 Outback with 2nd time head gasket problems and update my initial post to you on Jan 30. By the way, as I am sure so many have posted on this board, you have a tremendous and valuable resource you offer to the public without cost – you deserve much public thanks! I only wish I live in the Seattle area to avail myself of your services.

            After your response I considered my options. I called the Subaru dealership where I’ve had my 1997 serviced for about 8 years and was able to speak directly to the dealership owner. He said he would look into my problem and get back to me which he did. He offered to discount the second head gasket repair by one third or help me in my purchase of a new Subaru. Although I liked the 1997 Outback, it had 177,000 miles on the odometer. I’m still working (thank goodness) but am probably only a few years away from retirement. My thinking, although I’d probably get a few good years running the 1997 after the repair ($1,300 +), when I would have to replace the 1997 Outback I’d be retired and on a limited income. I took a deep breath and purchased a new 2012 Outback Premium 2.5i with CVT transmission from the dealership lot on February 10. The dealership owner obtained a Subaru VIP letter for me which enabled me to purchase the Outback under dealer invoice price. It seemed like a pretty fair deal to me. In addition, a Subaru customer service representative I was dealing with on the head gasket problem told me Subaru would be sending me some sort of payment back (not sure how much) after receiving purchase confirmation.

            That’s the background story. But now that I have my new 2012 2.5i Outback, I’d thought I’d ask you for any recommendations you might have for keeping it running for many years to come. I thought I’d read in your blog you believed Subaru finally fixed the 2.5 engine head gasket problem with a newly designed head gasket? Is that true? And I see in my ownership manual you won’t have to change the new super coolant for over 100,000 miles or 10 years? Engine oil is a little confusing. Should you use the new Subaru synthetic oil for the 2.5i normally aspirated engine or conventional oil? The service manager was telling me the oil change intervals are every 7,500 miles. Is this correct if you are doing a lot of short trips with stop and go traffic? I’ve swapped cars with my wife and now the Subaru is her primary car and will probably not be getting a lot of miles on it unless we take it on some longer trips. Any recommendations in keeping a new 2012 Outback 2.5i CVT in tip top operating condition for many years to come would be truly appreciated!

            By the way, the new 2012 Outback runs really smooth, but it sure handles a lot differently than my 1997! Must be all the new electronic control systems running the car.

            Thanks again for all your Subaru insights.

            David from New Jersey

          5. Hi David,

            We also own a 2012 Outback, I change the oil every 3000 miles and use Synthetic oil. I will change the coolant at 60k unless during a PH test the levels tell me I need to change it sooner.

            I am ok with the higher intervals but want to caution that the oil level, coolant level and tires still need to be checked, and those that wait every 7500 miles for this to be done during an oil change, may find out that at some point in time a low tire, low oil level or low coolant etc will cost you.

            In my opinion good maintenance is the best way to keep ownership costs down. I would at least change the oil every 5000 miles.

            Justin

    2. Justin — just a quick question on HG. I have a 2003 Outback Wagon 2.5L H4. I lost the gaskets at 78000 and had the dealer do the full monte on it – gaskets, timing belt, water pump, belt tensioner, etc. It’s run really well since but just in the past week I developed an exhaust crack (planned to fix after holiday trip). Car ran great on the trip except for exhaust noise. Then a misfire on #3 and then some mild overheating. I had oil changed/fluids checked at 119K… it turns 120K and check engine light flashes, then solid…temp spiked as I drove out of Autozone thinking I was OK. Went back, got coolant — checked for leaks and other issues… drove for 9 miles and then parked it. Today I heard it has blown head gasket(s). So I got 42K out of the gaskets — I dropeed $1500 on the gaskets then (4 years ago) and did a full dealer service. I’ve kept up with oil changes. Do you think I should repair again? I had to leave the car and get a rental so it will be repair or scrap it (it’s out of state now). There’s the exhaust to fix, the misfire to figure (that could be due to gasket?) and I think it will need brakes soon. What do you think? Not sure if you are still checking this but I figured why not ask — you seem reasonable about the whole thing. Could I ask Subaru for some help with the cost of another set of gaskets or is it just “tough”? Thanks! Richard

      1. Hello Richard,

        Sorry to hear about that. The set of circumstances is tough as well.

        With only 120k it still has a lot of useful life remaining, but its going to take some money spent to get there. If you still like the car despite the pending concerns id fix it, you will still be better off financially over buying something else.

        I would venture to guess the misfire is from the HG but that should be evaluated first so there are no surprises. I don’t think SOA will do much for you if they didn’t on the first set. Because the failure is internal I would strongly suggest the radiator, cap and thermostat are also evaluated. I just don’t many internal failures of the HG on second generation 2.5l that didn’t have some sort of other issue such as a faulty cap or restricted radiator.

        Hope that helps

        -Justin

        1. Thanks Justin,
          I decided to go ahead with it — it’s getting done on Friday/Saturday. The shop did an exhaust gas test on the coolant to confirm the gasket issue. I was down on coolant but just recently as I’d had it checked before the trip. The exhaust corrosion/pipe break, the guy said, could’ve been from coolant vapors condensing out the back. He also thought the misfire was from the HG when they pulled the plug out of #3. The shop is subbing the head gasket work out but I trust the place that did the diagnosis based on a referral from family. I got a good base price from the shop that’s going to do the HG work.

          Do you think I should replace timing belt, pulley, water pump at the same time? I’d imagine the tech will go in that direction anyway. I am hoping that there won’t be any other bad news — the gauge did get into the red for a few minutes but only as long as it took for me to pull over and get out of traffic. It’s probably standard practice to machine it, right?

          I admit I have done oil changes at longer intervals than you recommend and I did have the furry battery syndrome (it was the original so I just kept cleaning it off until it failed).

          I also need a rear brake job (which I knew about) — with the HG, exhaust work and brakes I am getting up to $2000 (and may go by if the HG guy has add-ons) My spouse wants to fix it and then trade it but I’d like to see if we can get some more miles out of it. It IS the most expensive on per mile maintenance of our cars (but that’s because of the first head gasket job which was done at a dealer and was pricey).

          I will share your ideas on the cap/radiator issue with the mechanic when I speak with him. We’ve incurred car rental costs, towing costs and on and on so the Subaru is a sore subject at the moment. On the other hand, it’s been GREAT in the snow and has been our go to long trip car for years.

          Thanks for taking the time to reply. I will be doing more frequent oil changes and keeping a very close eye on coolant level.

          You seem generous and fair in your replies. When the first HG failed, I wish I’d tried to get SOA to chip in a bit. On this second set, I know I am “on my own”.

          I might pop back and update you on the outcome of the work.

          Best for 2014.

          Richard

          1. My 2003 Outback is in pieces — the gasket had failed on cylinder #3 — coolant was getting into the cylinder — the tech said it was “washed.”
            The rest of the job isn’t done yet but at least I know the misfire was from a gasket failure. I am not sure why it failed, however. He’s doing it one step at a time.

  1633. In all my research about these head gasket problems with the Subarus, everyone keeps talking about the model years 1998-2002. What about 2003’s. I have a 2003 Forester with the 2.5 liter engine with 88,000 miles and is currently in the shop getting the HG’s replaced. If they fixed the problem in the 2003 model year, than why is it still occuring? Do you have more info on the 2003’s and their HG problems?

    1. 2003 outback, 99000 miles, they said the headgaskets were ‘very bad’, we’ll see what their estimate is. I loved this car up to this point.

          1. I have a 2003 Sub Legacy 2.5GT wagon with only 77,000 highway miles, that needs a head gasket repair.It started having coolant leaks at 55,000 which were minor and repaired as they occurred. I have maintained it religously, yet this still happenned. Why??

          2. I have a 2003 subaru baja that had the head gaskets replaced at around 77,000 miles, thankfully just before the extended warranty was up. i fear buying another subaru because i know of 7 other people with various models and years who have had to replace head gaskets.

          3. I understand your reservations but be sure to share your experience with any other car you own after 77k miles in terms of money spent on total service and repairs going forward. I work in the industry I have a lot of friends that do as well, all cars have their issues some come in $500.00 dollar chunks others in $2000.00

            Justin

          4. My 2003 needs new headgaskets, it has 147,000 miles on it. The issue is engine oil leaking out onto other components. I’m fairly certain the extended warranty has expired (didn’t cover much). My estimate was $2,300 for replacement.

            I’m planning on just selling off my car and getting a new one; did any of the 2003 owners receive any help (financial or repair) from Subaru with replacing the head gaskets?

          5. Hi Tom,

            Is the $2300.00 after 147k of use scaring you into buying a new car?

            Subaru has helped some with newer models than the 2000 to 20002 covered by the WWP -99 campaign, but not to many with 147,000 miles.

            Justin

      1. How about my 2004 Forrester? I’d like to know Even more; why so few posts re: ’04. I’m concerned that I bought a Lemon partially because there are lots of posts for earlier years, but so far I can’t find a lot of discussions on 2004s. I’ve read many, not all posts so far…

        1. Just took my ’04 Forester in for oil change and fluid check to Subaru of Georgetown (Tx), and got the news that the HG were starting leak. I have 120k miles on it. A co-worker with the same year Forester and maybe 80k mi got the news last month.

          I am not a happy “Subi” owner now.

          1. It doesn’t matter what car you own anytime you are told you need to repair it you will always be unhappy, its the marketing message to sell new cars.

            Justin

          2. My 06′ Outback just blew it’s 2nd. set of head gaskets (in less than three years) yesterday. 118,000 miles. Replaced every set of wheel bearings at least once, cracked front axle…I do not drive it that hard, unless you consider a gravel drivel extreme conditions. Subaru has major quality issues.

          3. A new purchase ’04 forester had the left side head gasket replaced at 44,000 miles in 03/2009 under warranty. The coolant reservoir started to foam at 70,294 miles 11/2010 Subaru dealer stated problem was a bad radiator cap. At 94,000 miles in 08/2013 with reservoir empty and cloudy the cooling system was pressure tested at a Firestone with no visible leaks the radiator cap was replaced again. Took the car back the Subaru dealer with this problem 2/2014 with 100251 miles with both head gaskets failed. Result $2,391.25 which included replaced water pump and timing belt assembly. I waiting for Subaru of America to respond to the complaint. I will update. I am considering walking away from the car.

        2. We are fighting another leaking head gasket on our 2004 Forester. The first one was replaced at about 100,000 miles. The new head gasket started leaking oil at about 140,000. We have been living with it for about 60,000 miles now. I am wondering if the Head Gasket problem has been resolved yet on the new Subaru Foresters???

          1. Hello Chester,

            Sorry to hear that.

            The current version of the Subaru Forester does not have the same engine design as your 2004 and there are not any real HG issues to speak of.

            Hope that helps

            -Justin

      2. I took my 2004 Forester in for an oil change and the technician showed be oil that was apparent on the underside of the engine; price of repair is over $2,000. It’s not the cost of teh repair that is disappointing, but the fact that Subaru has not about this problem for a decade and seemingly done nothing about it. I was considering buying another Subaru this year, but after spending $2,000 on repair, I’ll be keeping this car for awhile.

        1. Scott

          Other makes and models suffer from the same issue, I promise you this. Because Subaru produces a limited number of Vehicles and most have the same engine it seems like it is a every Subaru thing but its truly not.

          You are wise to keep the vehicle and gain value out of the repairs you have made.

          Justin

          1. I have 05 forester with headgasket leaking at 80,000 mile also
            wheel berring problem, valve cover , tranmission cover leaking
            last time i buy a subaru.

          2. The Valve cover would be replaced with the Head Gaskets, the transmission pan is most likely not leaking unless you let some one reseal the pan already and that would hardly be Subaru’s fault. Most likely the oil from the head gaskets is blowing back onto the Transmission pan?

            The Wheel bearing costs less than $400.00
            Head gaskets around $1500.00 to $2000.00

            If its at the high end Say $2400.00 and you drive it another 80,000 miles it will cost you .03 cents a mile for those repairs. Buying a $25,000.00 replacement vehicle will run .31 cents a mile for the next 80,000 miles.

            When you replace your Subaru with another Full time AWD vehicle in the same class please compare ownership costs at the 80,000 mile mark. Or maybe head over to the Audi and Volvo Forums and see how people feel about the costs they have had to shell out, I know that spending money on a car is unpopular just not sure what would be a beter option if costs are the concern or visits to a service center unpopular.

            Im sorry your Subaru hasn’t lived up to your expectations.

            Justin

          3. Justin

            Your right, other cars have problems. GM had bad intakes gaskets for a decade or more.

            Anyhow I;m looking at a 08 outback with 88,000 miles. It has the 2.5L H4 SFI SOHC 16V, 5 speed. From what I have read here, (and thanks for the info) this does fall into the HG years.

            Clean car fax but only one maintance record done at 77.000. It was done by a dealer.

            Oil and filter changed
            Recommended maintenance performed
            Brakes checked
            Maintenance inspection completed

            I’m guessing that would be the coolant change ?

            What else could I be looking at for repairs and when, like the timing belt, etc.

            I like the opposed engine. I have a couple old Onan opposed small engines and they just keep going and going.

            Thanks
            Gary

          4. Yes, and may GMs have HG issues, mostly the aluminum head mated to cast iron blocks such Duramax Diesel engine which is a $7,000 upgrade has had some issues. Interestingly enough with 100,000 mile coolant.

            The 08 should be pretty solid, I would have an inspection done to see where its at in fluid seepage past the HG, the timing belt is done at 105k.

            There are no other every car needs this kind of a thing on a 2008 model.

            Justin

          5. I also have an 03 Baja. I am quite attached to this car but about 50K miles ago my mechanic told me I needed a new head gasket 🙁 He put in some “stop leak” to hold it over until I saved up some money to fix it. It has held very well but have now finally decided to get it fixed. I went back and forth on whether to buy new or fix it but ultimately the car has been great to me. The car now has 137K on it and I plan on running it for the next 10 years!!!

          6. I have Toyotas and Hondas that have gone over 250,000 and no major problems like a $2000 head gasket repair. Subaru = OK car, but not great. Get a Honda.

          7. And people have had Subaru’s go 300k with no HG issue, and others have had to replace a Head gasket in a Honda or Toyota and tell you to go buy a Ford.

            Buy what you like to drive and what fits your lifestyle.

          8. Justin, I am so appreciative for your briefing.
            After comparing fuel economy to AWD/4WD capable vehicles I’ve found Subaru’s to be both New England capable as well as better on fuel economy than my beloved Jeeps (esp. Wranglers). So I’ve been shopping for used AWD Legacy’s. The head gasket and timing belt issues had me intimidated but, I did settle on a 2002 Lagacy L wagon.
            Your article has put me to ease, now properly informed and knowing how to properly preserve my new used “Subie” (with already 198*** mi).

            Thank you Justin
            (FYI: The previous owner took great care of it. They already fitted with replacement head gasket/timing belt too.)Has a smooth idle in drive gears; now I know how to keep it that way.

          9. I was just about to buy a 2004 Forester XS until I talked to a friend who told me about the HG problem. He also said that the Turbo XT models did not have the problem. I think i will keep looking.
            I’ve never had a problem with my 99 Jeep Cherokee, it has 148k on it and will go anywhere.

          10. Hi Eric,

            The XT Turbo models use a MLS gasket from the factory and have much lower failure rates yes. Most 2004 N/A engines will develop an external oil leak over time from one or both HG. Thats great that the 1999 Jeep Cherokee has been good to you, but if we want to talk about that vehicle overall especially as it pertains to safety and cost of ownership VS the Forester the jeep will be at a huge disadvantage. The truth is that all vehicles have their own set of issues, I could list the fact that many Cherokee owners of that era deal with warped front rotors, and electrical problems, which may seem minor, but cost as much if not more than the HG repair on the Forester.

            -Justin

          11. My 2007 Legacy with 72,885 informed me via check engine light that something was amiss. I pulled off the highway 30 +/- miles from Charlottesville, VA having traveled from Philly. Had car towed to Cville Subaru dealer. This was Friday at 6:30PM & service didn’t open again until Monday. Not a great way to begin a short trip away from home. Turned out my radiator was leaking from a lower sea, the head gaskets were leaking & needed replacement and the OSV was bad. It cost me $700 for the radiator in Cville. I returned home 4 days later than expected & too my car to my local dealer whom I’ve bought 2 Subaru’s from. Replacing the head gaskets, the power steering pump, & the OCV plus a tune-up came to $2500 +/- & Subaru covered it all except for $200 for tune-up parts. I have no complaints ‘& the car has not cost me a cent since I’ve owned.

          12. I love my subaru i think I have a head gasket issue because my oil was milky and coolant dark but haven’t had any issues with overheating. Also my valve cover gasket may be bad because my right front sparkplug had oil on it

          13. justin, thank you for great info. most people dont realize how good and detailed your info. is.
            i found your posts when fixing my second subaru 2.5 wagon 1998.
            i used a great garage in pa i knew the mechanic and he had done 400-450 2.5 hgs.
            people subaru is a great car with a defined problem. buy a used 5-8 year old subaru in 3rd year production run with a blown hg. many people panic and are given 5000 dollar est. and sell thease subarus cheap.
            take to a garage that specalizes in subaru and pull entire engine.
            have all belts gaskets water pump real seal ect changed pay for the expensive composite head gasket. cost is 1500 to $2000 from a responsible garage.
            PULL THE ENGINE. no short cuts.
            a 2.5 boxer is almost guaranteed 150,000 after you do this
            all three of my subarus went 100-150k mile and they quite due to other reasons. not one did the motor die.
            my 3rd one is outside with 235,000 miles on it did the motor at 125k
            compresson check done 6 months ago not one cyclinder was off more that 5 pounds avg. 155.
            it uses or leaks about 1/2 quart of oil every 6 months, this is a 1998 with 235k miles.
            my red 1997 had 225k miles and when i did oil changes you couldnt even measure a vol. differnce. i sold it 2 years ago and the guy has over 270k and still driving. he told me brakes and tires since i sold it to him. claims he hasnt fixed anything or spent any $$ just drives it.
            this is a 1997 with 270k and hasnt even had a tuneup since 180k.
            mind you i took very good care of it.
            last note i change the fuel filters every 3 years . a doubt anyone else does. but they cost $15.00 and very easy to change and keep the injectors from having issues(imo)

          14. Justin,

            I just bought a 2016 Crosstrek 2.0 for a commuter vehicle. Will I have the same problems as these other guys? I drive 50K per year.

        2. Subaru indeed has known about this issue for a very long time but, after a lot of exploring I found out Subaru will not issue a recall nor help with this major repair. I have a 02 Forester and am going to get rid of it. Too bad, I really liked the car, but, this is not a good way to do business when the manufacturer will not stand behind their product.

          1. Hi Kate,

            Im sorry you feel that way, a couple of points and a question.

            So 11 years later, Subaru should perform warranty work on your Subaru?

            Id like to ask how long should the warranty be? If the car cost more money to buy because the warranty was longer wouldn’t that just be a wash anyways?

            Please let me know which AWD vehicle you intend to replace it with, I can then send you information about the problems you are going to have with that car so you can be prepared.

          2. I have an 03 legacy wagon – 160,000 miles and the hg problem. 2000 quote. i think i should sell it while the resale is still high enough and get a 2006 volvo xc70 at 89,000 miles for 12500. it also has a bent subframe. what do you think?

          3. If you buy a Volvo with 90k, All I can say is best of luck, hope you have a few credit cards.

            You can Fix the Subaru for $2000.00 or spend $12,500 on a new to you used Vehicle with very high ownership costs. $10,500.00 in the bank, or $10,500.00 less in Debt will always be my suggestion.

            Im not sure which car has a bent Subframe? The Subaru has a Cross member, is what what you mean?

            Justin

          4. Hi: Call Subaru of America they help pay the cost of HG. There are some requirements to qualify like you need to have a history with your local dealership for service maintenance. They helped me pay for mine I have a Forrester 2007 and has 105,000. They will pay $500.00 of the final cost of my bill which the dealership estimate around 1,200.00. Good luck! Subaru’s are great cars and the resale value stays best in the market. All cars will have issues in the long run. Don’t buy american, stay with foreign, they are the best.

        3. 2004 Subaru Impreza RS with 232,000 miles. Both HG replaced at 200k. Almost everything under hood is new. developed substantial external oil leak. Dealer now saying car needs new HGs again after20k miles. Said parts only guaranteed for 1 year?? Something doesn’t sound right here. Help.

          1. Hi Elaine,

            That story is probably very accurate and the exact reason I do not advise the repairs are ever made at a Subaru Dealership. Not only is the part just going to fail again, it’s installed by someone working in a flat rate repair environment which just wont yield good results. The Six Star Gaskets installed by a Shop like All Wheel Drive Auto is just the only way to repair Head Gaskets on your Subaru anything else will just fall short.

            Sorry this has happened you and I hope it all turns out okay.

            -Justin

          2. Thanks so much for your kind reply, Justin! I hope it works out. I sure wish you were closer to me as I’d have you do the work 🙂 I did find an independent Subaru repair place near me, but he hasn’t responded to my e-mail yet. I had to go through with the dealer. Hope it turns out okay. We shall see.
            Elaine

    2. I have a 2007 outback 2.5 XT that I believe to be overheating. I have brought it to the service center three times now and they have replaced the coolant seals (two of them they told me because of being turbo) and cleaned the air filter and replaced the thermostat. They also told me the first time I brought it in that the battery was dead. Now they have told me that it is normal for a turbo engine to heat at high revs to about 225 degrees and that the gauge should read hot but not in the red. I have owned a WRX and an older non-turbo outback and non of those cars have ever read above half way on the gauge. I have been noticing that the center console flashes on and off and was wandering if this is a result of the corroded or contaminated coolant as a result of the bad battery

      1. I think if it’s overheated then you may have a cracked head.

        Your Subaru dealership service dept. will diagnose your problem/s with a fee (which has gone up to over $100 in California). Keep in mind, you need to have them write down on the service receipt what needs to be fixed with the tech’s name so that you can have a record of that visit so that when you choose to pay for the repair/s you can show them the diagnosis receipt. Upon that visit ask the manager if your warranty will cover the needed repair/s and if so, do NOT leave the building to think about it but ask to schedule immediately for ALL the necessary repairs covered by the warranty. This is very important, otherwise they WILL wonder why you left the dealership without scheduling a service appointment and will ASSUME that you were waiving your warranty rights. That means, they will charge you when you go back to the service department because they will forget your name. (Remember, they are begging for dollars in the sales office, and the service department is next door-THEY WANT YOUR MONEY-and they know it will be a very costly repair so they have you by the neck in this situation).

        I had a head repair for my 2003 Outback, and my head repair totaled $3125. The dealership did a bad job of taking care of the recall issue which is related to emissions, and diagnosed the head problem 2,000 miles before my warranty expired. I did not schedule an immediate appointment and by the time I came back the warranty expired and I had to pay out of pocket for the necessary repair. The dealership had ASSUMED that I was WAIVING my warranty rights at that point. (Too bad for me-another expensive lesson). I had an independent shop fix the heads, since by that point I knew they treated me like a walking bank account, and now I still have the CV and Cad Converter to fix because I do not have enough money. That will be another one thousand dollars. By the way, the service center at Subaru offers more expensive parts and the manager doesn’t seem to care much about that either.

        That’s it for my simple minded opinion. And don’t forget to change the coolant professionally, make sure the battery isn’t corroding, and if you need a back wheel baring it will be another thousand for that crap they’ll charge you for too. And, if the tires and breaks wear out and the radiator develops a 1cm long seal break like mine because of “old age”, chances are you are into another three thousand more dollars like me. Ok, so the manager at Subaru doesn’t actually drive a Subaru, politically speaking we can’t fire him.

        Best of luck! (Clunk clunk)

        1. A phone call To SOA and documentation of an Advised needed Warranty repair should get you some $ back.

          Its the Service Advisers job to schedule you in, not for you to call back to schedule. Typically they don’t let you leave without an appointment, and typically hold the car over.

          Justin

          1. you seem to be full of excuses… i want to know the major issues with the H6??????????

          2. We are looking at a Forester for our daughter. How can you tell if the HG has already been changed?

            What do you charge for a pre sale inspection?

            We had to have the head gasket replaced on a 2000 Outback. We got a notice shortly after we got the car to have an additive put in the coolant which we had done. As I understand it if you did this they extended the warranty for HG to 100,000 miles. The HG went out on a trip back from California on New Years day with 99,700 miles on the car. By the time we got back home the car had over 100,000 miles on it. Had the HG replaced but since the mileage was over 100,000 miles the dealer said they could not help. They told me to contact Subaru of America and they sent me a check for the whole amount including what I paid for a new timing belt.

          3. Depending on what year Forester you are looking at the inspection to determine of the HG have been replaced will be different.

            Pre purchase inspection runs $116.00 but if during the course of the inspection we find something that may be a deal breaker we will stop early, bring it to your attention and proceed form there, if we don’t complete the inspection the charge would be less, we just try to be fair.

            Justin

        2. Just purchased a 2013 Toyota Sienna. Currently have a 2006 Pontiac Vibe with 156,000 miles. The Vibe is a Toyota Matrix in disguise.

          I have never done anything to the Vibe, I don’t even recall changing any bulbs or lights or even wiper blades. It gets 32 mpg and handles and accelerates like a sports car.

          After buying the Sienna a friend told me “When you buy a Toyota you only cry once.”

          He may be right.

          By the way, the Sienna has extraordinary acceleration, handles like a sports car too, and gets 25 mpg fresh out of the box.

          I would recommend you get a Toyota.

          1. And if you look for Toyota Sienna problems you will find people with complaints. Like the first gen engines that were notorious for developing sludge, or the very typical $1200 standard rack and pinion replacement that still seem to develop up until 2011 from what I have read on IATN (See TSB T-SB-0097-12) or the fact that many seem to go through brakes quite often.

            I could continue if you would like, but perhaps these issues will be okay with you if you should have to spend the money on the repairs?

            Its okay to be happy with your new car purchase and to be happy with your Pontiac Vibe performance over a period of time, but can yo understand that not everyone is going to have that experience, just like not everyone who buys a Subaru is going to have an issue?

            No?

          2. I have a 2003 silver Suburu Forrester and it is absolutely the BEST CAR I have ever had. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much fun to drive and wonderful ride. My son is 10 and loves our car too! We named our car Julian. We had his timing belt and water pump changed before it was needed. He has 84,000 miles. When he needs new head gaskets, we will go to Firestone and have them changed just like the timing belt and water pump. We use original SUBURU coolant with the recommended SUBURU coolant additive, ordered off Amazon.com. GREAT STUFF.

            Love our Suburu. Wish we could visit Justin, but we are in a different state. Thank you for the helpful article, I want to be prepared to fix Julian when he gets older. Thank you.

    3. 2003 Forester, leaking coolent driver side at 80,000 stopped it with AlumaSeal. Now at 116000 oil leaking passenger side. Having both headgaskets replaced! 🙁 WHY NO RECALL !

      1. Recalls are generally safety related. There is nothing unsafe about developing an external engine oil and or coolant leak unless it goes ignored.

        You voided any possibility of a recall in the event there was one with the use of Stop leak BTW.

        Justin

        1. I have a 2000 outback diagnosed with a blown head gasket and mechanic is recommending engine replacement rather than repair. Stating replacing timing belt and other parts done at same time

      2. Ford had a similar problem on 3.8L in the early 90s and being a responsible company they did recall the effected vehicles, safety or not, a good car company should accept responsibility and pay for their screw ups. I won’t buy another Subaru

        1. Hi Dave,

          Actually Because my Wife worked for Ford during that Recall I am very Familiar with it, and you are comparing apples to apples without knowing it.. Subaru did recall the ones where it was apparent the gasket needed to be replaced do to a coolant leak. WWP 19

          The issue with the 3.8l included an improper RA plus an improved gasket and many of those cars also developed issues later in life as well. The 1995 was the year that was the worst, and Ford did NOT issue a Recall covering all 3.8l, it was just that the upped some affected Vin Numbers to a 100k warranty Just like Subaru did (where do you think Subaru got the Idea from?)

          Just like Subaru, many Fords never had the repairs covered under warranty only the affected Vin numbers.

          Many Ford 3.8l owners footed the bill them selves.

          Justin

          1. 2001 Outback 2.5L 73k miles (yes, low miles for the year) HG leaking externally on #4 cyl (driver side rear) What VIN numbers are covered by WWP 19?

        2. Uh, only ’94 3.8. Only under 100k miles. We had a ’93 Sable, took a dump at 103k. Too bad. Never buy another Ford, either.

    4. 2003 Foresters were probably fixed sometime during the model year. 03 Foresters were initially manufactured starting in spring 2002 for sale in late summer/fall 2002 and those early cars are probably more prone to problems. My 03 has a manufacture date of 10/2003 and has 187,000 miles with the original head gaskets, no problems.

      1. That’s great! We have had many customers who take good care of their vehicles not experience any issue. But the 2003 Subaru Forester is not fixed, you just happen to drive and maintain the vehicle in a way that has prolonged the HG life over the Drivers that don’t.

        Justin

        1. Hello Justin, I have a 2004 Forester, also lo miles of 52K; with diagnosis of leaking head gasket(s), coolant leak & temp gauge clining and Left Front Axle leak. Not many references to a 2004, though I’ve read as many posts & replies as I can. Any chance you or others I may have missed have seen it, or am I just very unlucky?
          Peace,
          Christian

          1. Hello Christian,

            The 2004 Forester has the same head gasket as every other Subaru 2.5l NA SOHC form 2003 to 2009, so yes we make repairs to that model as well. You dont have a lemon as that would mean that under the warranty period there were multiple attempts at resolving issues that remained un resolved or the car was out of service repeatedly for many days at a time again under the initial warranty period only.

            The lower mileage older cars cars are always more subject to head gasket failures than a car of the same age that has been driven many more miles, meaning that someone else with a 2004 Forester that has driven 15k a year may still not have a HG leak, whereas your car is used in a way that by the very nature of it creates a situation where the oil is going to be diluted with fuel and coolant is most likely going to have a high PH level both of which contribute to the shortened life of the head gaskets.

            Hope that helps explain, I know it doesn’t ease the expense any.

            Justin

          2. Can you further explain why older cars with low mileage are more prone to head gasket problems? If I am correct driving less actually increasing the possiblity of HG problems. This is a bit counter-intuitive given that one would think less wear/tear would better preserve the car/parts.

          3. Hello Jonathan

            Head gaskets are not a wear item like a tire, brake pads or drive belts so it’s not counter-intuitive it’s just the way things work on the internal combustion engine.

            Here are two quick points.

            A car driven mostly for short trips never gets up to and maintains “normal” operational temperature, as such the fuel collected in the crank case does not separate from the oil and instead continues to dilute and contaminate it, oil mixed with gas is a solvent that will eat away at gaskets.

            Coolant will obtain high ph levels leading to contamination and electrolysis if not serviced regularly and the car sits a lot. This will cause corrosion of the gaskets.

            There is a long list of other things that happen on short trip cars and is why a short trip car is one of most Extreme ways to use a car and why the maintenance aspects are the opposite of what most do.

            If you spend some time on the site reading posts you will see I have addressed this plenty of times in the past.

            Hope that helps

            Justin

          4. Hi Christian – I have the same model and 52K miles and was shocked to be told recently that the head gasket needed to be replaced. I’m glad you posted your questions because Justin’s comments helped. Leslie

          5. I have a 2008 subaru legacy 2.5

            60,000 miles on it and the

            headgasket whent Subaru Dealer

            whants 1,600 dollers to fix it

            I ways babyed this car

            will never buy a Subaru again

        2. Justin;
          I certainly hope you weren’t implying that only Subaru owners who properly maintain and reasonably operate their Subarus should expect a problem-free vehicle. Our (my wife and I) 2008 Subaru Legacy has lived a life of luxury. Regular maintenance by competent service mechanics, babied driving and “low mileage for its age” (quoted from a Subaru service mechanic). Despite all, and discovered today while at the Subaru dealership for yet another revision to the computer and replacement of the front CAT, our legacy is leaking oil out of the driver’s side cylinder head gasket. With 73,000 miles and change on this vehicle, I would suggest that bad driving habits and poor maintenance had nothing to do with this failure. I fully understand the causes of head gasket failure in the horizontally-aligned boxer, but is it impudent of me to expect more than 73K before spending $2K on the repair? Last month was $330 for replacement of the rear diff. gasket and rear axle seals. My 1995 GMC Sierra 4WD (first and only owner) broke 160K this year. HAd to replace the trans., but that’s been it. Pretty good for an eighteen year old pickup, and no head gasket leaks.

          I love the car, but every repair breaks the bank. However, your argument for vehicle repair over replacement holds water, especially considering the bankroll one must have to just drive in the lot.

          1. Hi Tim,

            1995 was the year before OBDII, the 2008 Subaru has many more emissions systems that can and do fail, and that’s the case on every 2008 VS 1995, write your congressman if you don’t like all of the systems that are required for clean air on cars today.

            So one when complaining about a system that did not exist in 1995 that has to be serviced to day I am just not sure what to say there.

            The rear diff and axle seals is not typical and speaks to the fact that most likely the gear oil was contaminated with moisture and that’s what caused the failure which does not support good service. I wonder if the Diffs have in fact been serviced every 30,000 miles?

            What id like for you to do is go to the GMC Sierra Forums the “Diesel place” is a good one to start with, lets spend a couple of hours reading the rants about how big a piece of $%^#@ there 2008 GMC is, you will find plenty especially on the new Diesel emission components! This is after spending 60k on a new truck mind you, many who use the truck for work.

            If you are willing to do that and after reading post after post about this system or that costing big dollars to up keep and the down time and still think its just Subaru’s that need work than I just don’t know what to say.

            Readers come here looking for help and some to complain, all I can do is point out the truth or show you a path to look for it yourself.

            Justin

    5. I haven’t seen much relating to head gaskets that need to be replaced on a 2006 Forrester. There is a leak that the mechanic is attributing to the head gaskets, but there is only 72,100 mi on the car which has impecable service records. I’ve noticed a few small drops on the driveway and I added 1 qt of oil in the 3,000 mi btwn oil changes. There’s no odd/blue smoke from the exhaust. Anyway, just wondering if the 2006 model has similar HG issues?

      1. The 2006 Forester uses the same head gasket as any 2.5l SOHC form late 2002 to 2009 so yes its possible it can develop a oil leak at the head gasket just like any other car can.

        The oil used in between oil changes and the potential HG leak don’t have anything in common most likely.

        Hope that helps

        Justin

        1. I am trying to understand how I will know when the HG need to be replaced. My mechanic said that it will be when I will see the little oil drips turning into puddles, and see & smell smoke come off the engine. I just assumed (as a non-mechanic-type) that the oil I’ve added was due to those drips, and the faulty HG.
          Does this description of 2nd gen apply to my car (from your explanation above)”The early symptoms that occur in the 2nd generation engines is usually an external oil leak at both head gaskets and an external coolant leak at the left side head gasket, we have seen coolant leaks at the right side head gasket as well but at a much lower failure rate than the left side. We have seen some of the same intermittent overheating symptoms, but the bulk of the issues seem to be external leaks.”

          I have not noticed any change in the temperature gauge.

          Thanks so much for your excellent blog!!

          ~MJ

          1. MJ,

            A head gasket leak on a SOHC 2.5 typically wont get to the point where you have to add a lot of oil, you may also have an oil consumption issue as well, anything over 1 quart per 1000k is excessive typically.

            Because you didn’t give me any Vehicle information I don’t know if you have 2nd gen 2.5l if you do than the statement above is correct.

            External fluid leaks and the temperature gauge don’t coincide unless the coolant level is low, please give the article another read, figure out which era 2.5l you have and match up the Symptoms.

            I dont suggest waiting for puddles to form before you fix it, kind of like waiting to have a heart attack before you take your health seriously.

            Justin

          2. my test is non-scientific.

            1st check fluids like justin explains.

            if no leaks and fluids are in “good order”

            then drive the subaru for hours or all day errand run. etc
            once it is hot as hell take a 3-5 miles incline or hill run and push it hard
            i will run 80-90mph up a 3-5% grade.
            if the temp gauge stays rock solid at 50% half way chances are hg is good.
            then go home let it cool b/c it will be to hot to get near the motor. net day check all the fluids again and go around evey inch of the motor with a strong flashlight.

            note i always buy my subarus with a blown head gasket.
            then pull motor and replace everything and then drive it for 100k miles.
            i just assume the hg will go on most 2.5 boxers 1997 to 2005.
            i am in process of buying a beautiful outback 2.5 2006 for $2500.
            $2000 to fix hg and for $4500 i will have a spotless subaru to drive for next 4 years 100k miles for less than $100 per month.

    6. Hello- Great site. Very informative. I just purchased a Subraru. I have a question on oil usage. What would be better for my 03 Forester 2.5 with 114k HG? Changing with reg dino oil every 3k or synthetic every 5k? Also, how can i tell if my timing belt was ever done? thx

      1. Hello Alex,

        Without knowing how you use the car I cant answer the oil question.

        Timing belts require a visual inspection which requires removing the timing covers and sometimes the belt, if there is no record of the Timing belt having been replaced, I would do it yesterday.

        Hope that helps

        Justin

        1. Thx Justin- as for the way i use the vehicle it is a 3rd car, and my wife will use it to commute about 40 miles a day. What do u think? Am i better off keeping reg dino oil in it for now with the 115k on it? I dont know if they used synthetic in it prior to me acquiring it.

          Another question; As i stated I recently bought the vehicle and now im smelling coolant. It still runs cool but im wondering if i need head gaskets. Also, from what i read to do the job properly the engine should always be removed completely and all the dealers i called around here say they only pull it partially. I dont know if the gaskets were ever replaced but im assuming not. What do u think? I wish i was closer to you! I dont trust these dealers around me. Do you happen to know any good ones in the Northeast? I do have a receipt from timing belt replacment at around 103000 miles. The prior dealership says they recommended that the head gaskets be replaced in June 2010 because they were starting to leak to the previous customer. However i dont know if the previous owner went somewhere else and replaced them. Could they have lasted this long with a leak (2 years later)? Any advice would be appreciated!

          1. Hello Alex,

            Really as long as you keep good oil in it and service it regularly the type of oil Synthetic, VS Blend VS Dino is really just up to you. We use blend at our shop for everything but the Modded engines, and the newer models that require synthetic.

            Your Subaru should be put up on a lift, the splash pan removed and then the engine inspected for leaks to know if there is a head gasket leak.

            Not sure how anyone could pull the engine partially out, and I think it would be wise to look for a Independent Shop and get away from the Dealership for more reasons than I could possibly list.

            Justin

      2. I have a 2007 Legacy with 72,800 that lost all radiator fluid after a long trip. Subaru dealer found OSV was bad & also found HG leak that I will let my local dealer fix the HG. Considering my water pump needed replacement about 1.5 years ago & dealer covered that I’ve never had any other problem with car, and spending $1800 to replace HG is not bad. Reading this site has saved me from spending $27k on a new Forester three years before I planned to. My car has been maintained according to recommended schedule with city stop & go travel. I’m glad this site has been educational as well as informative regarding my Subaru. Keep up the good work.

    7. I have a 2006 Tribeca with 95,000 miles. It is in the shop now with head gasket problems. Also for the past year my car’s battery has been dead on occasion. The battery is only about a year and a half old. I’ve taken it back to Les Schwab and they swear it is not the battery. My husband has put stuff on the battery to keep it from corroding but it does not help. Could be the h.g. problem and the battery problems are connected???

      1. Its tough to say, but the shop you mentioned is not truly capable of testing anything on your car, and the last time I checked used a low quality battery.

        A weak and or excessively corroded battery is one of many contributing factors to a possible HG issue, you should never point at one factor and say aha that’s it.

        Justin

    8. Just found out my 2003 Baja has a leaking head gasket, and I just have 94,000 miles on it. $2,600 to do all of the work that needs to be done! I wouldn’t have purchased a Subaru if I had known about this problem. I have always owned Toyota’s and never had a problem. I have maintained my Subaru per manufacture suggestions. I AM PISSED! Is there a class action lawsuit??!! There should be!

      1. I am sorry that you feel that way. I hope that you arre aware that Toyota owns 20% of Subaru? You are aware of the massive amount of Safety concerns with the Toyota currently?

        There are really 2 other vehicles in Subaru’s Class The Audi and The Volvo here is a statement form another reader, to a different post on this site “I bought my Subaru to replace my Audi A4 that had 70K miles on it when the cam shaft broke causing catastrophic engine failure (cause: CAM-follower problem). That was a $10K engine replacement bill”

        Im thinking that a $1500.00 to $1700.00 Head gasket replacement, coupled with some Scheduled Maintenance such as the timing belt and tensioner, (which is how your quote is up to $2600.00 which you have either left out, or are being taken for a ride at $2600 to replace just the head gaskets), would be a far better outcome than an engine replacement at 70k?

        If you dont need a AWD Vehicle, dont care about the safety features that the Boxer Engine allows, dont Buy a Subaru! Move to a different brand, your new car will be under warranty, that warranty will cost you $25 to 30k depending on what you opt to buy. But at some point that car will also need reapirs, it may come at you $500.00 at a time or all at once for $2000.00.

        Spend some time at a Toyota Dealer Service department, then ask your self why are they so busy?

        I am sorry that no one has ever taken the time to explain what the Subaru is all about.

        Safety
        AWD
        Reliability
        Performance

        With an AWD vehicle you will always have more drivetrain wear than in a vehicle that does not have AWD. If you dont need the feature, you should not own it. An Awd vehicle costs more to buy, and more to own.

        Your Baja has 94k, and has an oil leak and needs some scheduled maintenance, you can repair & service it and move on, the car will run and run well to 300k and beyond with or without you, or move on to a different car. If you choose the later you will know when your new car has 94k if that was a wise move, and not one day before.

        Justin

        1. Justin, very impressed with the perspective and honesty on your site. I have a 2006 Tribeca and have just went through a few rounds of wear item replacements(tensioner, differential mount, lower arm bushings, radiator replacement) seems like 80k to 90k is where a lot of things need done to keep it on the road. we had an overheat 1 time. not sure how bad because when I came home from work my wife told me the car smelled burned when she had pulled into the garage. fluid levels are all good but there is a film of oil in the coolant reservoir. I expect to be changing the head gaskets. I did a lot of the other work myself but will have this done by experienced mechanic. (I have done gaskets on other motors) how safe is it to drive the car or does it need to be off the road right away? thanks for your time,. Dave.

          1. Hey David,

            Sorry to hear that and that’s just not common on the H6 but anything is possible. I am also sorry to say it just shouldn’t be driven until repaired, if it continues to overheat the repair may increase in costs or the Engine could become damaged.

            -Justin

    9. I have seen so many Subaru owners driving their cars like morons (85 mph w/AC going full blast in 100 F weather) and then complain because they blow HGs. Try a little common sense.
      1. If you develop a HG problem, get a radiator cap with a lever that lets off the pressure and use caution, watch the temp guage and take it easy.
      2. I have driven many engines with HG probs and they go forever if you don’t let the pressure build in the engine.
      3. The coolant will burn and seal the HG under lower pressure and temps. Common sense. Remove the coolant and use water and it rusts up and seals the HG
      4. For those who are a little squeamish about using distilled water, check out the cooling properties of clean water. Much more efficient than coolant.
      5. My engines with HG probs have gone well over 200K.
      6. You seriously want to run an engine over 200K getting low efficiency? Rebuild or replace the engine and dig a little deeper for worn gears, bearings, etc. Otherwise trade every 2 years and stop complaining.

      1. The purpose of the cap is to increase boil temps by allowing pressure, the greater the pressure the higher the boiling temperature of a 50/50 mix of water to ethylene glycol, The lower rad cap also means lower boil temp so that’s a bad idea in hotter climates especially.

        When there is pressure in a Subaru cooling system from an internal HG leak above and beyond what the cap can hold it will push the coolant into the overflow bottle, leaving the cooling system low and will finally overheat. The cap allows pressure to the preset limit and then vents coolant and air into the over flow bottle, as the pressure lowers there is a vacuum created which pulls coolant back into the radiator from the overflow bottle.

        In the Subaru its expansion of the heads under temperature and pressure that exposes the void in the gasket.

        Allowing the coolant to be contaminated to seal a void is a short term solution with the ramifications of not being able to be repaired.

        I agree with the stop complaining piece.

    10. Hi I just came across this set in my search for head gasket problems with the Subaru Forester you have a great set with excellent information. I am thinking of buying a 2011 or 2112 forester but this head gasket problem is making me think twice .I have looked over this blog and if I understand correctly this problem has been fixed with the use of a new mls gasket in the 2011 model. I hope this right because I like the Forester .

      1. The 2011 Subaru Forester uses a new Engine Design. Ill tell you what the head gaskets are like in 6 years. By the way Hg leaks dont have to happen, and they dont on all Subaru’s.

        I truly believe you are being wise in your Research.

        Now Research the Volvo and Audi and pick the least of three evils. Or which ever one you like the best.

    11. 2007 Outback Wagon with only 59,800 miles and a gasket leak. I’m hoping SOA will help with the $1,800 they dealership said it will cost.

    12. Thanks for the excellent site Justin. My daughter & I were out car shopping. She fell in love with a 2004 Forester. I prefer a 2004 Honda CR-V 4WD. The
      miles are about the same, however the Honda is
      $2000.00 more. Trim levels are about the same.
      With the valuable information gained here the $2000 savings by purchasing the Subaru would soon go towards new headgaskets. Not sure which one we will buy, but I will now consider both cars about the same price.

      1. Not all Subarus will have HG problems. The assumption you are making is that the Honda will have zero problems and the Forester will have a problem.

        My experience with Hondas/Acuras is that repair parts are expensive, the car is not very serviceable so repairs can be a major pain or more hours/money at an independent. Just changing shocks on them required new lower control arms because of their bushing design.

        Subaru on the other hand is the most serviceable car I have worked on — they go together almost like legos. My 94 Wagon went 300k before I sold it — the only issue was the flex plate. How did we know the flex plate was bad? We popped open the inspection panel.

        Honda’s reputation for reliability and build quality is largely built on the years they built cars with subsidies from the Japanese government — which is no longer the case. They are still fine cars — but they are not bulletproof by any means.

        If you are anywhere near awd auto, then the Subaru has a huge plus in a very competent mechanic nearby — I had trouble finding a good mechanic for my Hondas/Acuras when I was in the puget sound area.

        1. Did you seriously just say that hondas and acuras are harder to work on and more expensive then a subaru? To change a head gasket on a honda you only have to take 1 head off and things like changing spark plugs doesn’t take 3 hours. Yes hondas used to have head gasket problems back in the 90’s, and the problems only showed up after 200k. And the honda dealership where I live charges 76 dollars an hour while subaru charges over 100! After reading all of these peoples different problems i will never even think of buying a subaru id rather drive my 1993 honda civic that WORKS!

          1. Hello Chris,

            Your right the 1993 Civic was a pretty good car, as was the 1993 Toyota Corolla, Camry, Subaru Legacy, Impreza and Loyale and the Honda Accord was great in that era, I often think back to my wive’s 1993 Nissan maxima and my 1990 Legacy as two great cars we owned, both which are still on the road with different owners, but lets try to live in the now if thats okay?

            The previous comment posted by another referred to modern day Honda and Acura vehicles post “Japanese Government Subsidy”, maybe you failed to read that part?

            If you however would like to compare a 1993 Honda Civic to a current era Subaru thats okay. It didn’t take 3 hours to replace the spark plugs on any 1993 Subaru except maybe the SVX and only if you were not experienced, if you would like to do a fair comparison lets time how long it takes to replace the spark plugs on a modern Honda or better yet Acura VS a current era Subaru that would be more realistic wouldn’t it? Still not sure what the point of the argument is however. As far as Labor rates thats up to the individual franchised dealer and has nothing to do with the Car maker, kind of like when a Subway or McDonalds doesn’t participate in a national promotion.

            This is a website aimed at trying to help SUBARU owners with SUBARU ownership.

            I am happy for you that your Civic has been a good car, not sure why you are here trying to bash Subaru, you surely have better things to do?

            Justn

        2. I had a 2003 awd crv 130k miles and the engine started acting weird at stop lights and would stutter on accelerating and would stall every five lights. I took it to my guy and he wouldnt even fix it saying it’d cost too much.

      2. Justin,

        Firstly – thanks for all this helpful info.

        I recently purchased a 2001 Subaru Forester with 150k miles. Dealer / shop claims leak free head gasket wise, my local shop claimed leaks. From under the vehicle- looks pretty dry and not stained to me.
        Here’s the deal- neither coolant nor oil level have dropped an inch in 2 months. Forester has been driven daily 1.5 hrs both freeway speed and stuck in traffic- no over-heating. So all seems good, but I’ve noticed a bit of coolant on the top left of the engine block. Not a flood, not a puddle, but something.

        ?

        Also- I did change (horribly corroded) battery after purchasing. After reading your notes- extra glad I did that. But perhaps some damage had been done?

        As the dealer is doing some fixes for free- any thoughts / recommendations?

        1. Hi Ted,

          External fluid leaks on a 2001 Subaru Forester from the HG would take a really long time to ever create a situation where either fluid level became low. The idea is its okay to leak a little oil, not okay when it starts to leak coolant as that can quickly turn into a overheat situation and cause engine damage above and beyond the HG repair.

          My suggestion is to take it to a Independent Subaru shop for a proper assessment and ask to see it up on the rack, we do it all the time here for our customers, why should you expect less?

          Hope that helps

          -Justin

    13. It is understanding that the car company has had to defend its continued defect of head gaskets and bearing problems. Now given that cars can not be warrantied forever that would be unreasonable. Since doing a lot of research on these problems the company in good faith and wanting to sell the quality of what they make should be willing to fix its known defects for free. I bet in a court of law with 12 jurors you could make a good argument that the car company sold cars knowing there was a defect and did not inform customers that in the years of the defect you are taking a chance on buying there product. So subaru is intentionally selling their cars knowing that headgaskets are going to be a constant problem. Kind of like buying a car with a ticking time bomb. The only way I would buy a subaru know after finding out the problems is that the dealer give me a indefinite repair statement on all known failures that come known to the manufacturer for the life of the car. Subaru in my book is bad business. Even at the top of the page they blame the owner for their own failures.

      1. Hi Jason,

        This page is mine its not affiliated with Subaru, when I point out that in some cases the way the car is treated and used affects the longevity of many components that is 100% factual.

        All car companies are a business by the way, this site is about Subaru ownership and repair, you will find every car company with similar issues, you currently just happen to be researching Subaru at this point in time.

        But if you wanted to take a few hours of your life and spend time researching out common issues with every other car company please feel free to share the one that has no issues?

        Thanks for posting

        Justin

    14. Hi, I am looking at buying a used Forester. I have read much about the Subaru head gasket problems and I am wondering what the best year/ engine size Subaru Forester is to buy to avoid paying to fix this problem. Any insight into the “best” year model of the Forester is greatly appreciated.

    15. Subaru owners. 2006 Forester anti-freeze leak? So, I just got hit for $2500.00 replacing my head gasket. The dealer asked me if my car overheated. No, it did not. By the way, 68,000 miles. They asked about oil changes. I baby my cars, check the windshield for last oil change. 4,000 miles ago. I have never had a blown head gasket, even in my racing days. They told me that my head was warped after they already sent it out, if they really did. Warped head? To me a head will warp if the torque bolt pattern wasn’t followed in production. Historically, the head should be torqued from the middle of the head out to both ends if you don’t have the bolt pattern. If you torque the head on both ends and finish in the middle, you will almost surely suffer a warped head. I am pissed and thinking about selling. They allowed a loaner to me, 2014 Forester. Steering ratio is way too close. I think it is dangerous at freeway speeds. It als absorbs bumps pretty well but if you get to drive one, you’ll fine yourself bouncing up and down. I really loved my LL BEAN, not so much anymore…..$2500.00 is a lot of money to me…….

      1. Hi Frank,

        So the head gasket didn’t blow, the car has developed a fluid leak, there is a difference. It doesn’t change the fact that a 8 year car needs a major repair, rather than try and explain that at 68k in 8 years the car is only been driven 8500 miles a year and that means the car is being used in the most extreme way possible and it sounds like it’s only receiving 2 oil changes a year, I will instead suggest you contact SOA at 1 800 Subaru 3 and seek some assistance.

        The heads tend to warp on the newer design as a result of there being less surface mass and fluid getting in between the gaskets and head as the gaskets fail and fluid not being able to be compressed.

        When Toyota bought a piece of Subaru they were involved in the redesign of the combustion chamber, this allowed for better efficiency but there has been a side effect.

        You can read about it here.

        https://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gaskets-problems-explained-part-ii/

        -Justin

    16. Hi Justin,
      Trying to figure out overheating on 1998 Impreza 2.2.11/97 build date.2 years ago replaced radiator the .The plastic at top was cracked.New radiator over heated and I got a new one on warranty because cap could be pulled off on closed position.(Spector is brand).A year later started to overheat again.My daughter said she saw steam and pulled over let it cool .She topped off radiator and drove it 6hrs across Co. no further problems.The day she was going back I decided I better test drive it.I went up 2 big Mtn. Hills and it overheated.I have tested for head gasket leak with squeeze bulb tester.Negative result.I looked under it for leak at head gasket appears fine.Thermostat opened when warm (lower hose warm).I don’t see antifreeze below timin belt cover So I think waterpump is ok.It was replaced 40k ago.147 k on car.RadiAtor will bubble out filler neck with cap off while reving.I live in remote area in Mtns. There is not any shop to bring to close.Do you have suggestions on what it could be?

      1. Hi Grant,

        Sorry to hear about the trouble. I think by Squeeze tester you are referring to what is called the “block checker” with the blue dye? Those just do not really work all that well, an exhaust gas analyzer is really the only way to look for the presence of Exhaust in the cooling system.

        I hate to say it but it sounds like a HG is failing internally based on the Symptoms.

        Does the coolant and the coolant overflow bottle smell like exhaust or fuel, is there any residue in the overflow bottle?

        Hope that helps

        -Justin

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